[00:00] <redtape-renegade> First post !!
[00:01] <amayer> can i uninstall gwibler and empathy without breaking any system features in ubuntu 12.10?
[00:02] <cr0w13y> You can in 12.04, that's for sure.
[00:03] <amayer> i just installed 12.10 and i never use empathy or gwibler so i was wondering if i could remove them
[00:06] <cr0w13y> Should be ok.
[00:07] <redtape-renegade> amayer: You know *how* , right ?
[00:08] <amayer> sudo apt-get remove empathy ?
[00:08] <redtape-renegade> use the software center...
[00:08] <amayer> or in the software center
[00:08] <redtape-renegade> right.
[08:38] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:39] <jacobw> morning AlanBell
[08:56] <BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
[08:59] <jacobw> my VPS has been up for 686d17h
[09:00] <jpds> jacobw: Kernel exploit incoming.
[09:00] <jacobw> :)
[09:00] <AlanBell> ksplice would have fixed that if oracle hadn't burried it
[09:01] <AlanBell> oh, looks like it has been kind of resurected a bit
[09:03] <AlanBell> the website was broken for a while http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/download-ubuntu and I kind of assume anything going into Oracle has gone forever these days
[09:04] <BigRedS> ksplice will still fix it, and Oracle will probably give you a discount if you purchase within a week of the fix
[09:07] <JamesTait> Good morning, people! :-D
[09:27] <czajkowski> any recommedations for a graphics and image editor that is not GIMP
[09:28] <mungbean> pinta?
[09:28] <jpds> czajkowski: tuxpaint?
[09:28] <czajkowski> ah not heard of that
[09:28] <AlanBell> tuxpaint
[09:28] <mungbean> paint.net
[09:29] <czajkowski> has to be OSS
[09:29] <AlanBell> paint.net is freeer than it sounds
[09:29] <neuro> bah
[09:29]  * neuro temporarily has no car
[09:29] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ack
[09:29] <neuro> it's off getting repairs to repairs
[09:29] <czajkowski> cheers
[09:30] <neuro> popey: how did the tablet endurance test go?
[09:30] <czajkowski> mate sent me an email - I need OSS solutions/ideas to the followin:
[09:30] <czajkowski> Mail
[09:30] <czajkowski> firewall
[09:30] <czajkowski> and antivirus
[09:30] <AlanBell> actually maybe it isn't free as in freedom
[09:30] <jpds> czajkowski: Sell him UA.
[09:31] <mungbean> pinta is a good un, and usable like paintshoppro
[09:31] <jpds> czajkowski: Mail server or client? ufw, then there's clamav.
[09:31] <mungbean> also krita
[09:32] <czajkowski> jpds: hmmm I figured client
[09:32] <czajkowski> he didnt ask
[09:32] <neuro> gmail
[09:33] <AlanBell> thunderbird
[09:33] <neuro> shouldn't need a firewall if you don't open up any services unnecessarily
[09:33] <neuro> thunderbird is dead
[09:33]  * AlanBell uses thunderbird
[09:33] <czajkowski> it's not
[09:33] <czajkowski> its lovely
[09:33] <neuro> and unpleasant to use these days, imho
[09:33] <czajkowski> and works!
[09:33] <mungbean> czajkowski: zimbra
[09:33] <neuro> very klunky, slow
[09:34] <czajkowski> mungbean: what's that?
[09:34] <neuro> zimbra isn't a client, it's a server
[09:34] <mungbean> woops didnt see that bit
[09:34] <mungbean> thought they wanted mai lserver
[09:34] <neuro> it's basically free exchange
[09:34] <jpds> neuro: Can act as an IMAP client...
[09:34] <neuro> jpds: not exactly MUA material though
[09:34] <mungbean> thunderbird isnt dead
[09:35] <neuro> is mozilla still developing it?
[09:35] <ali1234> it's pining for the fjords?
[09:35] <neuro> :)
[09:35] <mungbean> neuro: yes, apparently no new features though
[09:35] <neuro> well, it's dead then, isn't it
[09:35] <mungbean> geary is a nice new email client
[09:35] <neuro> or at the very least motionless
[09:35] <mungbean> neuro: no, its feature complete
[09:35] <ali1234> i gave my mum thunderbird
[09:35] <neuro> yeah, heard nice things about geary
[09:35] <neuro> ali1234: YOU DID WHAT?!
[09:35] <neuro> oh, i see
[09:36] <ali1234> compared to outlook express it looks like the most amazing program ever
[09:36] <mungbean> geary is missing search atm but is nice
[09:36] <neuro> yeah, my folks both use thunderbird too
[09:36] <ali1234> and she only sends about 1 email a week so she doesn't hit the problems it has
[09:36] <mungbean> i use it 24x7 at work
[09:36] <BigRedS> thunderbird's an awesome way to make it feel like you've got less ram than you actually do
[09:36] <mungbean> (tb)
[09:36] <neuro> no way was i letting them use microsoft mail
[09:36] <mungbean> disable offline caching
[09:36] <neuro> BigRedS: :)) my point exactly
[09:36] <mungbean> and thunderbird is fine
[09:36] <ali1234> i couldn't figure out how to configure microsoft mail
[09:36] <neuro> mungbean: defeats the point of imap then
[09:36] <neuro> might as well just use gmail
[09:36] <ali1234> otherwise i would have done
[09:37] <BigRedS> neuro: the point of imap isn't offline caching
[09:37] <neuro> ali1234: hehe
[09:37] <mungbean> neuro: depends if you're talking always connected desktop or not
[09:37] <BigRedS> the point of imap is to read mail on the server, rather than pop-style downloading-and-reading
[09:37] <ali1234> you get what you pay for
[09:37] <neuro> BigRedS: thank you for teaching me to suck eggs ;)
[09:37] <BigRedS> haha
[09:37] <neuro> my point was ...
[09:38] <mungbean> i have a stick ,,. keys today, now i realise why this beyboard was going spare
[09:38] <BigRedS> Sorry, poor imap implementations are a bugbear of mine. I love how nothing implements imap properly
[09:38] <neuro> why bother using something like imap if you're not going to take advantage of offline caching
[09:38] <ali1234> with no local cache you might as well use gmail web interface because it's better than thundebird
[09:38] <neuro> but ...
[09:38] <neuro> the problem with offline caching is the ram/disk footprint
[09:38] <BigRedS> my mum's imap client is roundcube
[09:38] <neuro> ali1234: that was pretty much my point
[09:38] <mungbean> neuro: you can search in thunderbird within folders without doing the download for indexing
[09:38] <mungbean> its the indexing that sahgs your pc
[09:38] <ali1234> in fact you might as well do that anyway because offline cache is pointless
[09:39] <neuro> yeah, i know
[09:39] <ali1234> you can't send or receive emails = email is pointless anyway
[09:39] <neuro> but what i'm trying to say here, probably unsuccessfully, is why use a local client if not to cache
[09:39] <mungbean> i don't get your point
[09:39] <neuro> ali beat me to it :)
[09:39] <ali1234> and don't give me that "i need to check something in my email" because how are you going to action it without internet?
[09:40] <neuro> actually ali didn't beat me to it, misread
[09:40] <diplo> Any web devs got any ideas, usig lazyload in a admin page of mine, works fine in a standard html/php page, include it in my admin page the only time the images appear is not after scrolling but if i resize/redraw the page
[09:40] <mungbean> i use a local client cos i have loads of mail that i want to order easily by sender, filter for words in the body  ,etc
[09:40] <mungbean> do things easily that webclients don' do
[09:40] <ali1234> gmail does that MUCH better than thunderbird does
[09:40] <mungbean> and not all email lives on gmail
[09:40] <ali1234> and much faster too
[09:40] <ali1234> all mine does
[09:40] <mungbean> this is my work email
[09:40] <ali1234> i set up redirects and aliases
[09:40] <BigRedS> ali1234: the big thing I miss with mutt/msmtp is that it's harder to deal with mail on the train
[09:41] <ali1234> the trains i go on have wifi
[09:41] <BigRedS> because I can't just pretend it's sent and assume it'll work next time I'm connected. I have to postpone the mail and then send it all when I get online
[09:41]  * AlanBell liked Lotus Notes, but it didn't really handle multiple email accounts well
[09:41] <BigRedS> yeah, our DC is basically on a farm
[09:41] <ali1234> that reminds me i need to book a ticket
[09:41] <neuro> AlanBell: WAT?!
[09:41] <neuro> lotus notes, the scourge of the galaxy
[09:41]  * AlanBell was a notes developer for 10 years or so
[09:41] <neuro> you have my sympathies, sir
[09:41] <AlanBell> nosql before it was cool
[09:41] <neuro> hehe
[09:42] <ali1234> i was still in school when notes was popular
[09:42] <neuro> bloomin' whippersnappers
[09:42] <BigRedS> Yeah, we had an IT lesson where someone brought in a laptop with Lotus on it and gave us a demo 'cause it was likely we'd be woring with this when we left school
[09:43] <neuro> gah, "IT" based around specific apps rather than the science itself
[09:43] <BigRedS> yeah, this was at school. it's all like that
[09:43] <SuperMatt> http://devref.com/ <- best thing ever
[09:43] <AlanBell> it was a nosql engine with rock solid replication, a public key infrastructure, and a built in IDE
[09:43] <neuro> when i were a lad, computing studies wor all about programmin and that
[09:43] <ali1234> that, and novell netware
[09:43] <AlanBell> and they decided to build a crappy email client with it
[09:43] <AlanBell> which I liked - for a single account
[09:43] <neuro> novell netware was awesome in its day
[09:44] <BigRedS> ali1234: my first IT job involved decomming some Netware
[09:44]  * neuro was a 3.x->4.x veteran
[09:44] <neuro> i remember a lost weekend doing a 3.x to 4.x migration
[09:44] <AlanBell> probably still the most efficient development platform I have ever used
[09:44] <BigRedS> well, I replaced the only guy who knew netware when he left. 'decomming' was basically turning off a few servers and hoping that when people shouted we could replicate whatever they wanted on Windows Server
[09:44] <ali1234> neuro: IT isn't computer science
[09:45] <neuro> but on the fun side, i got to race my colleague down the corridor using dell poweredge disk chassis as go carts
[09:45] <ali1234> novell netware is actually freeware for single license
[09:45] <neuro> has been for years
[09:45] <BigRedS> "is"?
[09:45] <BigRedS> blimey
[09:45] <ali1234> you can download it and play with it as long as you only connect one machine to it
[09:46] <ali1234> it's not bad if you need to network dos machines
[09:46] <neuro> wut
[09:47]  * neuro had dos 6.22, wfwg 3.11, nt 4.0, win95, win98, win2000 and mac os 9 clients hanging off nw411
[09:47] <neuro> and debian
[09:47] <ali1234> yeah dos and 16 bit windows
[09:47] <neuro> that was a eureka day
[09:47] <ali1234> anything newer and there is no point to using netware
[09:47] <neuro> "I CAN CONNECT TO NW411 FROM DEBIAN LOLZ!" "err, ok?"
[09:47] <neuro> ali1234: errm, because?
[09:47] <mungbean> we still have netware
[09:48] <ali1234> because they have tcp/ip stacks built it
[09:48] <neuro> what are you talking about?
[09:48] <mungbean> my employer has a server room full of netware servers in active service
[09:51] <neuro> hmmm
[09:51] <mungbean> getting decommed this year hopefully for a netapp
[09:51] <mungbean> the last netware guy is getting nervous
[09:51] <neuro> netapp, lovely
[09:52] <mungbean> cos he hasn't updated his skills set for 15 years
[09:52] <neuro> just punt him on a netapp training course
[09:52] <neuro> jings, if I can admin a netapp, anyone can
[09:53] <mungbean> i don't think he's employable anymore
[09:53] <mungbean> some old relic
[09:53] <mungbean> :)
[10:31] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[10:31] <mungbean> hello
[10:32] <brobostigon> hello mungbean
[10:33] <ali1234> what is a colophon widget?
[10:33] <mungbean> sounds painful
[10:38] <dwatkins> it's just one big widget, apparently
[10:39] <mungbean> bulk ordering of condoms ftw..150 for £15
[10:39] <dwatkins> http://www.squidoo.com/wordpress-colophon
[10:39] <dwatkins> "A colophon is a fancy word for a list of acknowledgements in a book or, increasingly, on a Web site."
[10:42] <bigcalm> mungbean: bit off topic that
[10:42] <mungbean> sorry, just received a delivery from the postie.
[10:43] <mungbean> thoiught it was a early brithday pressie
[10:43] <dwatkins> mungbean is a cheap date ;)
[10:47] <mungbean> i'm married so i can plan ahead
[10:47] <mungbean> expiry date 2017
[10:47] <redtape-renegade> Morning everyone .. Back to Uni for me ..::: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_charge_when_to_charge_table
[10:50] <popey> \o/ no more condoms
[10:52] <mungbean> had the walnut whip?
[10:52] <popey> ya
[10:53] <mungbean> lol
[10:54] <redtape-renegade> popey: Saw your tablet post on G+ :: Well done .. I think there are a lot of responses/comments .. Canonical must be in it's boon-period atmo.
[10:55] <popey> depends who you ask
[10:55] <redtape-renegade> I ask ebay ..
[10:56] <mungbean> i love the ubuntu on tablet idea
[10:56] <mungbean> seems to be the ideal form factor for that type of UI
[10:56] <mungbean> android on my tablet is a bit restrictive
[10:56] <mungbean> i always want to do more with it
[10:59] <redtape-renegade> me too .. but I have a nook color :)
[11:01] <mungbean> saw someone selling a sony prs-300 for £20 the other day
[11:01] <redtape-renegade> ooh elensie's .. time for news and cream things :D
[11:02] <mungbean> working from bed today
[11:03] <redtape-renegade> **elevensie's
[11:04] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: You mentioned ebay .. my postman just dropped off a used digital camera I got for about the same price .. :)
[11:04]  * redtape-renegade feels bad for all the cold postman today .. 
[11:04] <mungbean> i got my package from NHS freedom site :P
[11:04] <redtape-renegade> **postmen
[11:04] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: is that a smoking pack ?
[11:04] <mungbean> wouldn't trust contraceptives from ebay !
[11:05] <redtape-renegade> ooohh I've sold aew ..
[11:05] <redtape-renegade> **afew..
[11:05] <mungbean> has nayone seen those ecigs in IRL?
[11:06] <redtape-renegade> Two things that should be banned on selling on ebay : razors (blades) and hard-drives !!
[11:06] <popey> yes
[11:06] <popey> i have one here
[11:06] <redtape-renegade> popey: Your in Ireland ??
[11:06] <dwatkins> I can't imagine I'd ever buy a hard drive on ebay.
[11:06] <popey> https://www.smokerelief.co.uk/
[11:06] <mungbean> for fun? or you smoke a bit?
[11:06] <popey> to evaluate it ☺
[11:07] <redtape-renegade> Aaahh
[11:07] <mungbean> to install linux on it
[11:07] <redtape-renegade> how scientific you are :)
[11:07] <mungbean> yes, i'm intrigued, althouh i never touched a cig in my life
[11:07] <popey> ditto
[11:07] <dwatkins> I gave up, took me 10 years.
[11:07] <redtape-renegade> well done .. I'm on 20 rollie's a-day.
[11:08] <dwatkins> I used to smoke them, redtape-renegade - was cheaper
[11:08] <mungbean> redtape-renegade: ever tried the eciggy?
[11:08] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins: yeah, there's a niceity to how cheap rollies actually are
[11:08] <popey> i have a couple of friends who switched from cigs to robofags
[11:09] <dwatkins> I was discussing 'quitting' recently on #ubuntu-offtopic, it's not really quitting if you just switch to robofags, although it's probably marginally better
[11:09] <mungbean> popey: dubious method of advertising on that site
[11:09] <mungbean> scantily clad woman
[11:09]  * popey shrugs
[11:09] <popey> appealing to their target audience I imagine
[11:10] <mungbean> all that smoke on the page makes me feel short of breath
[11:10] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: No, but there is a cafe called .. err coffee and vags or something on the high street .. I here all trhe cafe are changing to allow for e.cig customers v.soon .. Hookers ahoy !!
[11:10] <redtape-renegade> ***hear
[11:11] <mungbean> not sure why there is a usb stick in the efag packet
[11:11] <redtape-renegade> you get a USB ?
[11:11] <redtape-renegade> what capacity ?
[11:12] <mungbean> dunno, just looking at pics
[11:13] <redtape-renegade> oh poo ...
[11:13]  * redtape-renegade was thinking more along the lines of Impossible Mission .. the tobacco version :D
[11:14] <popey> mungbean: its a charger
[11:14] <redtape-renegade> I see ..
[11:14] <popey> the white bit is a battery which charges via a usb adapter
[11:14] <popey> the brown bit contains the magic smoke
[11:15] <redtape-renegade> had to be brown, had to be brown, , had to be brown,
[11:15] <popey> you screw them together and smoke, when the brown bit is empty you bin it, when the white bit is dead you recharge it
[11:15] <mungbean> i got sent a pen in the post.
[11:15] <mungbean> after a few weeks, my colleague was fiddling with it and found a usb stick
[11:15] <mungbean> had centos on it
[11:15] <redtape-renegade> I've got loads of pens .. last week ..
[11:16] <mungbean> some cool talks at http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5478408066
[11:16] <mungbean> tonight
[11:17] <redtape-renegade> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Lubuntu%20docs/Merchandise%20Mania%20%28Kubuntu%20Pens%29%20takes%20Royal%20Mail%204%20days%20to%20arrive%20usually%20by%20.png
[11:18] <davmor2> Morning all you funky people
[11:19] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins: What tobacco did you smoke then (for rolies) .. what was it called ?
[11:22] <dutchie> o/
[11:23] <neuro> ha haaaaaa
[11:23] <neuro> my epic 3 week star trek enterprise marathon is complete
[11:23] <mungbean> ewww
[11:24] <mungbean> shudders at the thought
[11:24] <neuro> it gets a bad rep, but it's better than some guff on telly just now
[11:25] <neuro> just a shame the series finale is a bit poo
[11:25] <neuro> not sure whether to go TOS or TNG now
[11:25] <neuro> cos season 1 of tng is awful
[11:26] <neuro> i wonder at what point these ubuntu touch images are appearing
[11:27]  * redtape-renegade chucked away his Tele 12 months ago .. never looked back !!
[11:29] <neuro> you never watch any movies or tv shows at home? ever?
[11:34] <mungbean> i wouldn't bother with a telly if i wans't marrried
[11:34] <Azelphur> Just uploaded this https://github.com/Azelphur/pyPushBullet which will probably be useful to a bunch of people in here, command line push notifications to your android phone :P
[11:34] <neuro> mungbean: how so?
[11:34] <neuro> Azelphur: nice
[11:35] <Azelphur> :)
[11:35] <Azelphur> it's also a python library.
[11:35]  * popey chuckles at xda-developers finding an image of ubuntu phone touch preview
[11:35] <neuro> i generally don't like android, but there are some bits that as an ios user, i'm a bit jealous of :)
[11:35] <Myrtti> I think the latest upgrade might have broken my suspend...
[11:36] <Azelphur> popey: didn't they already show video of that anyway?
[11:36] <Azelphur> neuro: being able to set your ringtone? hahahaha.
[11:36]  * Azelphur runs
[11:36] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDsADuxb43Q that one?
[11:36] <neuro> popey: is there an official time for release (i'm not asking to tell us, if in fact you know it, just asking is there actually an official time) :)
[11:36] <Myrtti> or not.
[11:36] <neuro> Azelphur: i can change my ringtone to whatever i want!
[11:36] <popey> we don't give times
[11:36] <neuro> popey: pfff
[11:36] <popey> but the PR people told everyone ~4pm
[11:37] <neuro> dates but no times always winds me up
[11:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[11:37] <popey> meh
[11:38] <neuro> Azelphur: i can set custom ringtones on a per contact basis as well, it's just sms tones that aren't configurable beyond those that ship with the device
[11:38] <neuro> popey: not hassling you, just making a general comment :)
[11:38] <mungbean> neuro: tv is generally take or leave it. its ok if i watch it, but don't miss it when i don't
[11:38] <Azelphur> hehe
[11:38] <popey> i know
[11:38] <mungbean> but my wife likes it
[11:38] <neuro> she likes the cut of its jib, does she?
[11:40] <neuro> i don't really watch live tv these days (my horror at seeing This Morning yesterday should have been relatively transparent), but I enjoy segments of broadcast TV's output
[11:40] <neuro> along with other sources of content (movies, le youtube, etc)
[11:41] <neuro> broadcast tv is just another input source
[11:41] <neuro> i never understand the grimacing against it
[11:42] <ali1234> BBC 1, 2 and 4 are ok
[11:42] <ali1234> and the odd thing on channel 4
[11:42] <neuro> bbc three is getting better
[11:42] <neuro> at least it's better than it was
[11:42] <ali1234> no it isn't
[11:42] <ali1234> BBC3 was good for about a year after it was launched and has been rubbish ever since
[11:43] <ali1234> it wasn't called BBC3 then though
[11:43] <popey> BBC Choice
[11:43] <neuro> BBC Knowledge!
[11:44] <redtape-renegade> neuro: I download them to my computer and watch on a 24 inch monitor .. :)
[11:44] <neuro> so you're still watching TV then :)
[11:44] <neuro> popey: remember BBC Select?
[11:44] <mungbean> until iplayer requires a tv licence to use then number of tv owners will drop
[11:44] <redtape-renegade> No, I'm watching internet ..Tele is dead t o me !!
[11:45] <neuro> mungbean: iplayer *does* require a tv licence, if you're watching the live streams
[11:45] <neuro> redtape: if you're watching programmes from broadcast TV networks, you're watching TV, I'm afraid
[11:45] <redtape-renegade> oh, Istill pay £145.50 to the beeb alrighjt, that's for sure ..
[11:46] <neuro> for the live streams?
[11:46] <redtape-renegade> neuro, As the son of a TV shop owner . I totally disagree .. you are just bainwashed into saying that !!
[11:46] <neuro> redtape: brainwashed into saying what?
[11:46] <redtape-renegade> **brainwashed..
[11:46] <BigRedS> ...that's the law...
[11:47] <redtape-renegade> neuro: Into saying I watch TV..
[11:47] <BigRedS> the wording of the act that provides for the tv license doesn't specify a broadcast medium
[11:47] <BigRedS> It did, IIRC, specify that the thing was mains powered
[11:47] <BigRedS> but I think they changed thatr
[11:47] <neuro> not iirc
[11:47] <neuro> it's still there
[11:47] <redtape-renegade> .. I don't have a Television or watch 'scheduled' programmes ever !
[11:47] <BigRedS> oh, haha
[11:47] <neuro> redtape: i could say the same if all I ever did was timeshifted everything on my DVR
[11:48] <neuro> but it's still "watching television"
[11:48] <BigRedS> ah, I guess that's to stop people needing a tv license for a lorry cab or something
[11:48] <redtape-renegade> .. yeah , but are being 'told' what you can and cannot watcgh .. where as I have the full choice of the torrent sitesv !
[11:48] <neuro> lol wat
[11:49] <redtape-renegade> your brainwashed !
[11:49] <redtape-renegade> TV is a dead medium !
[11:49] <ali1234> derpity derpity doooo
[11:49] <neuro> redtape: but you're watching TV programmes!! *boggle*
[11:49] <redtape-renegade> neuro: I dont atall . I watch torent films !
[11:50] <mungbean> ^watch^steal
[11:50] <neuro> no
[11:50] <neuro> copyright infringement is not theft
[11:50] <neuro> you're not depriving the owner of the item
[11:50] <mgdm> I heard someone say recently it's more akin to trespassing
[11:50] <redtape-renegade> wel that is a separate issue .. the one that keep people hypnotized by terrestial tv.
[11:50] <neuro> yes, it's a crime, but no, it's not theft
[11:51] <mungbean> ok
[11:51] <mungbean> agree
[11:51] <mgdm> I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it fits in my mind
[11:51] <ali1234> i totally disagree with everyone here
[11:51] <neuro> redtape: okthxbai
[11:51] <mgdm> ali1234: not unusual for you ;-)
[11:51] <redtape-renegade> ali1234: What's new ??
[11:51] <neuro> hehe
[11:51] <mungbean> civil offence vs criminal
[11:51] <neuro> there's that as well
[11:51] <redtape-renegade> mgdm: He should have a G+ page or something .. wanna do one ?
[11:52] <mgdm> redtape-renegade: who should?
[11:52] <redtape-renegade> ali1234:
[11:52] <mgdm> I'm not sure why I would be bothered with making a page for someone else :-)
[11:52] <neuro> or indeed bothered using a weird social network :)
[11:52] <mungbean> i hope for the day when you get an ebook for free with a paper book
[11:53] <neuro> mungbean: like a digital copy with a dvd or blu ray :)
[11:53] <redtape-renegade> Aaah, the selfish-gene just kicked in on this #channel :)
[11:53] <neuro> that would be neat
[11:53] <mungbean> neuro: yes, since its only format shifting, i shouldn't have to pay twice
[11:53] <neuro> redtape: i say this with all due respect, but you're odd, sir :)
[11:53] <popey> I notice they are doing that with Blueray now
[11:53] <neuro> aye
[11:53] <popey> using Ultraviolet
[11:53] <neuro> or iTunes
[11:54] <popey> Ultraviolet makes sense for books.
[11:54] <mungbean> what is it?
[11:54] <popey> buy book, get rights to use on any platform
[11:54] <mungbean> yes
[11:54] <davmor2> popey: are you using ultraviolet
[11:54] <redtape-renegade> I havec a rockbox .. fcuk iTunes !!
[11:54] <neuro> mungbean: http://www.uvvu.com/
[11:54] <popey> an agreement that when you buy the DVD you can use other means to get digital copy
[11:54] <neuro> it's a nice idea
[11:55] <neuro> more platform agnostic than Digital Copy
[11:55] <popey> taken a long while to get started
[11:55] <popey> amazed that I saw discs in the local petrol station with it on
[11:55] <neuro> :)
[11:55] <neuro> what i can't remember is if ultraviolet does HD copies
[11:55] <ali1234> they've had that since at least 2011, cos my dad got loads of blu rays with that and he had no idea what it was
[11:55] <neuro> Digital Copy is usually SD, sadly
[11:55] <neuro> which is annoying when you've bought the blu ray
[11:56] <mungbean> i've never watched the didigtal copy, seems to be a windows thing
[11:56] <neuro> it's an itunes thing
[11:56] <mungbean> and DRM laden
[11:56] <neuro> i have Star Trek sitting on my mac just now
[11:56] <neuro> well yea
[11:56] <neuro> :(
[11:56] <mungbean> don't have a platform that can run itunes
[11:57] <neuro> which is why ultraviolet is "nicer
[11:57] <neuro> "
[11:58] <neuro> only problem is that the capabilities appear to be studio-dependent
[11:58] <mungbean> for books, all they would need is a scratch off sticker with a single use code or something
[11:58] <neuro> it's up to the studio (and i think it's on a per release basis too, if they want) whether the title can be streamed and/or downloaded
[11:58] <neuro> mungbean: but there's the format issue too
[11:59] <neuro> pdf?
[11:59] <neuro> epub?
[11:59] <neuro> mobi?
[11:59] <neuro> etc
[11:59] <neuro> epub probably makes most sense, but there's the danger that once you've bought it and gotten the epub, you can just share it about
[11:59] <neuro> but then again, itunes takes the same chance with music, soooo ...
[11:59] <mungbean> you can have an account where the file gets watermarked
[11:59] <neuro> (plenty of utils around to strip personal info from m4a files)
[11:59] <mungbean> or just trust people to use the system
[12:00] <mungbean> read the story about the tolkien boigraphy
[12:00] <neuro> which is what apple do with itunes music: trust
[12:00] <mungbean> or convenience
[12:00] <mungbean> make stuff easy to buy
[12:00] <neuro> tolkein was a fanboi? ;)
[12:00] <neuro> this is what the p2p community has been saying for years
[12:00] <neuro> "make stuff easier to buy, and we'll get interested"
[12:01] <mungbean> http://www.grotta.net/blog.htm?post=899042#
[12:01] <neuro> yes, there's a hard core of people who will always pirate music, video, etc
[12:01] <mungbean> "Why You Won't Be Reading a New Tolkien Biography"
[12:01] <neuro> but a lot of people do torrenting, ed2k etc for media because the "official" digital way is too hard
[12:01] <neuro> or too inconvenient
[12:01] <mungbean> copyright expires, then gets retroactively applied, guy can now no longer quote from the material
[12:01] <neuro> or downright impossible, if you're on an "unsupported platform"
[12:02] <neuro> yeah, copyright extensions and the like are annoying
[12:02] <neuro> defeats the whole point
[12:02] <neuro> cf Cliff Richard
[12:03] <mungbean> if you own a book that was out of copyright, they can't come to your house and stampa copyright on it ?>
[12:03] <neuro> when they EU extended copyright from 50 to 70 years a couple of years ago, one of the things they said was that it was done to protect income gaps at the end of performer's lifetimes
[12:03] <neuro> which is nuts
[12:03] <neuro> especially given some of the heavy hitters who pushed to get the legislation through
[12:03] <mungbean> so why does it continue after they die
[12:04] <mungbean> christopher tolkien is not JRR
[12:04] <neuro> "awww, did you blow all your earnings on booze and drugs? well that's not our fault!"
[12:04] <neuro> copyright continues after someone dies to allow the estate or heirs to benefit from the works
[12:04] <mungbean> ad infitum
[12:04] <neuro> well in theory no
[12:05] <neuro> but in practice ...
[12:05] <neuro> due to the greed of labels and publishing houses ...
[12:05] <mungbean> disney
[12:05] <neuro> oh dear lord, yes
[12:06] <neuro> it's atrocious, but - and this applies to the way the music and movie industries treat piracy as well - as long as legislators are in the pockets of these people, it's going to continue
[12:06] <neuro> problem is, for most of the public, it's just not an important enough issue to get worked up over
[12:07] <neuro> people like us tend to be in the minority
[12:08] <redtape-renegade> Well that's my dad of excitment over for today .. What's happening in in Tech.Land ?
[12:08] <redtape-renegade> **my day of
[12:08] <popey> oh, something something tablet something
[12:09]  * redtape-renegade has too many unused tabelts :)
[12:09] <redtape-renegade> **tablets..
[12:09] <neuro> i discovered a Cherry Ripe in the house today
[12:10] <neuro> made me come over all funny
[12:11] <neuro> it's an aussie chocolate bar, in case anyone has become concerned for my actions
[12:12]  * redtape-renegade hates cherry and watermelon .. disgusting.
[12:12] <cr0w13y> ^pervert
[12:12] <redtape-renegade> cr0w13y: Who ?
[12:13] <cr0w13y> redtape-renegade: you man, haha What, you hate cherry and watermelon? They are like the most divine flavours on the planet!
[12:13] <mungbean> today has been a rather offtopic one
[12:14] <neuro> probably my fault
[12:14]  * mungbean holds his hands up too
[12:14] <neuro> cr0w13y: a perv i may be, but only when it comes to tasty aussie choc snacks
[12:14] <neuro> om nom nom nom
[12:15] <cr0w13y> hah nice
[12:15]  * redtape-renegade draws eneryone in with a gravitational hug \o/ .. even jawas .
[12:15] <redtape-renegade> ***everyone..
[12:15] <neuro> even jawas?!?!
[12:15] <neuro> WHAT ARE YOU ON, DUDE?!
[12:15] <neuro> (and can we have some?)
[12:15] <redtape-renegade> me ?
[12:16] <redtape-renegade> the list is long ..
[12:16] <neuro> no, the other redtape-renegade who's talking about hugging jawas
[12:16] <neuro> :)
[12:16] <redtape-renegade> Monster Chaos .. energy drink..
[12:16] <neuro> oo-tee-deeeee
[12:16] <neuro> energy drinks are the DEVIL
[12:16] <redtape-renegade> Juan Valdez ...coffee from mexico
[12:16] <mungbean> http://laughingsquid.com/jawa-sandcrawler-scavenging-across-tatooine/
[12:17] <neuro> gorgeous!
[12:17] <redtape-renegade> Steak slice .. from Tesco done in the oven 20mins.
[12:17] <neuro> scott beale always finds cool stuff
[12:17] <mungbean> http://laughingsquid.com/vintage-star-wars-travel-posters/
[12:17] <neuro> "Dagobah. Visit you should." Genius
[12:17] <mungbean> nice, they are
[12:17] <redtape-renegade> Benson and Hedges rolling tobacco .. 8p a rollie :)
[12:18] <mungbean> or just don't smoke :P
[12:18] <neuro> *cough*
[12:18] <redtape-renegade> .. oh and porridge qwhen i got up with syrup and sultanas .. good for the bowels ...
[12:18]  * neuro sticks to his 37.5p per cig marlboro golds
[12:19]  * neuro had a kfc breakfast thingy this morning
[12:19] <redtape-renegade> marlboro .. Ha . you know they can't pronounce that in Spain ?
[12:19] <neuro> um, what?
[12:20] <neuro> awright ubuntubhoy! howzitgaun!
[12:20]  * redtape-renegade had a spanish girlfriend who went into aperplexy whenever she had to ask at the cfounter :D
[12:20] <ubuntubhoy> no bad
[12:20] <neuro> maybe it was just your girlfriend who couldn't pronounce it
[12:20] <redtape-renegade> **counter..
[12:20]  * neuro had no probs with marlboros in spain
[12:21] <redtape-renegade> .. no I've had dozens of spanish gf . who had the same problem .. It's not their fault . they are spanish . I just trade-in for a younger model .
[12:21] <neuro> ok
[12:21] <redtape-renegade> hehe.
[12:22] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: shame about the juve game, eh, i think that's us done for for this season
[12:22] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[12:22] <ubuntubhoy> losing the first goal so early killed us
[12:23] <ubuntubhoy> played well
[12:23] <neuro> aye, still, could be worse, we could have no made it through at all
[12:23] <ubuntubhoy> true
[12:23] <neuro> i cancelled sky sports last month, so didnae see it :(
[12:23] <neuro> stupid unemployment
[12:23] <ubuntubhoy> it was on council telly
[12:23] <neuro> wat
[12:23] <neuro> no wai
[12:23] <ubuntubhoy> yar
[12:23] <neuro> *facepalm*
[12:23] <redtape-renegade> neuro: R U u/e ??
[12:23] <neuro> u/e?
[12:24] <redtape-renegade> unemployed
[12:24] <neuro> no, i just blame unemployment for everything

[12:24] <neuro> yes, i am
[12:24]  * redtape-renegade the manx-DUDE agrees.
[12:24] <neuro> have been since july
[12:24] <redtape-renegade> Crumbs.
[12:24] <neuro> and it *sucks*
[12:25]  * mungbean should be more grateful for his job
[12:25] <redtape-renegade> So should redtape-renegade
[12:25] <mungbean> being grateful also stops me finding other ones though
[12:25] <neuro> my savings run out next month, signing on shortly
[12:25] <popey> Azelphur: there's a retro games thing in your neck of the woods today I think?
[12:25] <Myrtti> I should start doing up a spreadsheet for my business idea
[12:26] <neuro> yeah, if everyone could just not change jobs at all until i get one, that would be great
[12:26] <Azelphur> popey: todays the private day, tomorrow, you going? :P
[12:26] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: What age-bracket are you in .... ??
[12:26] <popey> http://www.geek2013.co.uk/
[12:26] <mungbean> 35-40 new kid on the way
[12:26] <popey> no
[12:26] <neuro> Myrtti: will one of the cells be ??? followed by another one saying "profit"? :)
[12:26] <Azelphur> Thursday 21st February - Preview Day - The Preview Day is by invitation only
[12:26] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: You're ahead on me by 2 years then ..
[12:27] <Myrtti> neuro: one will probably be kickstarter, followed by ??? and then profit
[12:27] <neuro> Myrtti: :)
[12:27] <mungbean> i turned down a exciting new job because 1st year of new child is so focus and time consuming
[12:27] <mungbean> and hard
[12:27] <neuro> good shout
[12:27] <mungbean> now my job is changing and i won't be doing so much hardcore linux and vmware skills
[12:27] <neuro> you'd kick yourself if you spent loads of time working then realised you'd missed out on being with your wee 'un
[12:27] <Myrtti> I don't need that much, just some plasterboard, ring burners, gas pipe, few big stock pots from a kitchen wholesale place, and few tubs.
[12:27] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: MM children .. I think I'll pass.
[12:28] <Myrtti> oh and a sink
[12:28] <Myrtti> and YARN
[12:28] <Azelphur> popey: I almost got into the preview day, I know someone volunteering there XD
[12:28] <mungbean> i could offer a lot to a better company who appreciated their staff
[12:28] <Azelphur> ended up not working out though D:
[12:28] <neuro> Myrtti: so it's some sort of internet website startup then? :)
[12:28] <mungbean> but it will have to wait a bit
[12:28] <Myrtti> neuro: yeah ;-)
[12:28] <neuro> mungbean: sounds like you'll make a good parent
[12:29] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: It's my nephews 2nd b.day on Friday .. I got him a book .. but as you are in nthe *know* .. what presents do toddlers like these days ??
[12:29] <ubuntubhoy> Someone doesn't like Ubuntu much - http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/nexus-4-galaxy-nexus-enjoy-exclusive-ubuntu-phone-preview-50010462/
[12:29] <ubuntubhoy> redtape-renegade: noisy ones
[12:29] <redtape-renegade> e.g. ??
[12:29] <mungbean> redtape-renegade: cars, brio, books
[12:29] <neuro> get them a nexus 7 with ubuntu touch preblown
[12:30] <mungbean> gruffalo related merch for my boy
[12:30] <redtape-renegade> mungbean: Yeah, I got him an ABC#'s bok ..
[12:30] <ubuntubhoy> gruffalo is cool
[12:30] <mungbean> my boy also loves nintendo ds but only on weekends for 20 mins allowed atm
[12:30] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: i've given up on cnet as a useful news source :(
[12:30] <redtape-renegade> I think he's got gruffalo ..
[12:30] <Azelphur> mungbean: why such a short time?
[12:30] <mungbean> its generally not good idea
[12:30] <cr0w13y> "the ageing Galaxy Nexus" isn't that like a year old topps?
[12:30] <ubuntubhoy> redtape-renegade: Room on the Broom is another good kids book
[12:30] <redtape-renegade> ubuntubhoy: Nice photo's though ...
[12:31] <ali1234> lol imagine if it was a spectrum
[12:31] <neuro> :)
[12:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: 19 minutes of bootup time, 1 minute of gameplay? :P
[12:31] <ali1234> yeah
[12:31] <popey> typing in time
[12:31] <mungbean> toddlers find computer games rather stimulating
[12:31] <Azelphur> hehe
[12:31] <popey> how old is he?
[12:31] <neuro> oh be generous
[12:31] <ubuntubhoy> qwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[12:31] <ubuntubhoy> sorry
[12:31] <ubuntubhoy> cat
[12:31] <neuro> even 128k games didn't take 19 minutes :)
[12:31] <mungbean> just turned 3
[12:31] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: lol
[12:31] <Azelphur> mungbean: *shrug* I grew up playing games WAAAAAAY more than that, imo it was entirely a good thing
[12:31] <mungbean> Azelphur: what age?
[12:32] <Azelphur> without games I would never have had the motivation to learn programming, which has given me so much
[12:32] <popey> yeah, look how you turned out Azelphur
[12:32] <Myrtti> neuro: in all seriousness: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/sets/72157632822139010/
[12:32] <Azelphur> mungbean: pretty much since I was born, haha
[12:32] <Azelphur> popey: rofl
[12:32] <mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
[12:32] <neuro> Myrtti: oooh
[12:32] <Azelphur> mungbean: what about it?
[12:33] <neuro> weird that red onions would make green dye
[12:33] <AlanBell> Myrtti: what is the unique thing about this?
[12:33] <redtape-renegade> Cnet pictures .. bookmark it !! http://news.cnet.com/photo-galleries/?tag=hdr;snav
[12:33] <neuro> no
[12:33] <mungbean> Azelphur: there is a channel of thinking that says too much stimulating screentime can cause permanent brain changes in under 5s
[12:33] <neuro> *good* changes?
[12:33] <Azelphur> interesting
[12:33] <neuro> i'm guessing no
[12:33] <Azelphur> yea, I'd say good changes.
[12:33] <mungbean> lol
[12:34] <Myrtti> AlanBell: I might set up a network to collect some select kitchen waste from nearby curry places and cantines ;-) who knows...
[12:34] <Azelphur> games have been demonstrably proven good over and over again in studies
[12:34] <Myrtti> AlanBell: teabags, onion skins :-P
[12:34] <AlanBell> is the special thing that it is natural dyes?
[12:34] <neuro> wouldn't the wool ... smell funny?
[12:34] <mungbean> some people even say screen time for under 2s should be zero
[12:34] <neuro> <- wool n00b
[12:34] <mungbean> impossible
[12:35] <neuro> IMPOSSIBRU!
[12:35] <Azelphur> mungbean: *shrug* I grew up on games, had an Amiga with Thomas the Tank engine
[12:35] <Azelphur> and postman pat :D
[12:35] <Myrtti> neuro: not if you rinse enough, the dye binds to the wool and doesn't generally leave a smell other than what the yarn already has.
[12:35] <redtape-renegade> Amiga ??!?? spitz
[12:35] <neuro> Myrtti: awesome
[12:35] <Azelphur> redtape-renegade: don't you hate on my thomas the tank engine.
[12:36] <mungbean> i grew up on games but was older than 5
[12:36] <neuro> i have a particular envy for people who grew up when Amigas didn't cost 400 quid
[12:36] <neuro> i used to lust over those Silica Systems ads
[12:36] <neuro> Ooooooh, Amiga ... ST ... accessories ... waaaa!
[12:37] <Azelphur> but yea games certainly arn't a bad thing, there are most definitely much bigger things you should worry about :P
[12:37] <neuro> i think making sure the games have some sort of educational focus is a Good Thing
[12:37] <Myrtti> AlanBell: yup.
[12:38] <neuro> i had to lecture a couple of parents in Tesco one night because they were dithering over what to buy their kid, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 or Battlefield 3
[12:38] <Azelphur> neuro: indeed, but in my experience I find that when I play games the educational stuff tends to just arrive on it's own
[12:38] <neuro> they'd asked me for advice
[12:38] <neuro> i asked them how old their boy was
[12:38] <ali1234> i hope you told them BF3
[12:38] <neuro> they said 8
[12:38] <mungbean> thats a rational approach, but certain people are worried that actual screen time makes permanent bad changes
[12:38] <ali1234> oh, CoD then
[12:38] <Azelphur> neuro: that's fail hahaha
[12:38] <neuro> i said please, look at the AGE RATINGS ON THE BOXES!!!
[12:38] <AlanBell> so you buy yarn that is fresh off the sheep (or llama) and sell it dyed in various interesting colours?
[12:38] <Azelphur> neuro: yea, rofl
[12:38] <neuro> i had to explain the games were full of blood, swearing and people dying
[12:38] <mungbean> not talking about content, but the media
[12:38] <Azelphur> I certainly didn't grow up on no BF3 :P
[12:38] <neuro> and did they think that was appropriate for an 8 year old
[12:38] <neuro> they looked all confused for a minute, then put them back on the slef
[12:39] <neuro> shelf
[12:39] <AlanBell> what is the plasterboard for?
[12:39] <AlanBell> and how do you re-wrap the yarn?
[12:39] <Azelphur> mungbean: some people are worried that vaccinations cause autism too, doesn't mean they are right, you generally have to have evidence to back up crazy claims
[12:39] <ali1234> if those games aren't apprpriate for 8 yea olds, who exactly are they appropriate for?
[12:39] <popey> if my kids walk in when I'm playing a game like that I have to quickly flick the screen off or stab ESC
[12:39] <popey> or both
[12:39] <Azelphur> popey: hehe, need one of those panic buttons ;)
[12:39] <neuro> Azelphur: the increase in measles cases and no apparent increases in autism bears out the paranoia in some people
[12:39] <neuro> ali1234: adults
[12:39] <Azelphur> neuro: lol
[12:40] <AlanBell> extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
[12:40] <Azelphur> ^
[12:40] <neuro> ali1234: adults who can make informed choices about their media consumption
[12:40] <mungbean> besides i'm concerned that my 3yr old is better at mario than me
[12:40] <neuro> haha
[12:41] <Myrtti> AlanBell: plasterboard is to make the garage walls a bit more dustproof, so that the risk of making the yarn icky is a bit less. Yarn comes in hanks, is dyed in hanks and sold in hanks, doesn't necessarily require anything in between. The yarn comes from a wholeseller or spinnery, haven't figured that out yet. Might source some local alpaca farms and ask if they've got readyspun yarn.
[12:41] <neuro> TOM HANKS!?
[12:41] <Azelphur> mungbean: that's the best reasoning xD
[12:42] <redtape-renegade> sounds dusty :)
[12:42] <AlanBell> Myrtti: I guess it is going to have to come unbleached and pretty raw for people who are going to pay for the naturalness of the dye
[12:42] <Azelphur> mungbean: but yea just to give you some idea how things went for me, I had an amiga growing up, at around age 6 I got an action replay and taught the basics of hex editing, then I got a gameboy and a playstation (both with action replays) so I learned lots of stuff about memory editing and such, got my first PC, started playing MMORPGs and writing bots etc...
[12:42] <Azelphur> and now I do proper things
[12:43] <neuro> right, that's my nexus 7 all chargified
[12:43] <redtape-renegade> popey: Your secret is safe with me , for a cheezeburger :)
[12:43] <cr0w13y> neuro: you're gonna do it?
[12:43] <neuro> probably
[12:43] <Myrtti> AlanBell: some people might be happy with just the hand dyed and recycled dyestuff aspect.
[12:43] <neuro> bit concerned about backup/restore, but otherwise i'm game
[12:43] <neuro> i wailed on the new UI when i saw the phone thing, but i've never experienced it, so i figure i should give it a try before attempting any further wailage
[12:44] <ubuntubhoy> did you backup to an external source ?
[12:44] <Myrtti> anyway...
[12:44] <neuro> not yet
[12:44] <neuro> still need to figure that out
[12:44] <AlanBell> Myrtti: is colour consistency massively important? I should think that there will be variability in various steps of the process
[12:44] <neuro> i've never plugged it into a computer
[12:44] <ubuntubhoy> you have a OTG cable ?
[12:44] <AlanBell> and what colour range can it be?
[12:44] <neuro> OTG cable?
[12:44] <ubuntubhoy> USB on the go
[12:44] <ubuntubhoy> lets you use the USB as a host
[12:45] <cr0w13y> USB on the go?
[12:45] <neuro> it would appear not
[12:45] <ubuntubhoy> for connecting keyboards, mice etc
[12:45] <ubuntubhoy> ahh shame
[12:45] <ubuntubhoy> thats the easy way
[12:45] <ubuntubhoy> just backup direct to a USB drive
[12:45] <neuro> aaah i see
[12:45] <ubuntubhoy> otherwise you need to copy your backup off the device
[12:45] <redtape-renegade> The crumpets keep looking at me to eat them .. What should I do ?
[12:45] <neuro> i'll plug it into my mbp and see what happens
[12:45] <ubuntubhoy> eat them
[12:46] <neuro> i had to use some mental app for my kindle fire hd
[12:46]  * redtape-renegade goes to find the jam ..
[12:46] <ubuntubhoy> dont forget a knife
[12:46] <Myrtti> AlanBell: colour range depends on what is used as dyestuff, might need to go forage for more colours, or grow my own. colour consistency needs a bigger pot than what I have, ie. so I can dye two kilos at a time instead of 100g. Other than that it's not massively important, and handdyed always implies that there will be fluctuation in the colours.
[12:46] <neuro> hmm, cable has gone walkies
[12:46] <ubuntubhoy> get messy otherwise
[12:46] <redtape-renegade> Yes, you need a knife for a crumpet massacre !
[12:47]  * Myrtti slinks back away and leaves the channel for Ubuntu chatter :-P
[12:47] <neuro> Myrtti: we have 3 hrs to kill before these bloomin' images appear, wool sounds fun in the meantime ;)
[12:48] <AlanBell> 3 hours?
[12:48] <ubuntubhoy> is the guess 4 O'clock ?
[12:48] <neuro> allegedly
[12:48] <ubuntubhoy> hmm
[12:48] <ubuntubhoy> not good
[12:48] <neuro> not 100% though
[12:48] <ubuntubhoy> need to head into work just after 4
[12:49] <AlanBell> dunno why the code doesn't get a countdown :(
[12:49] <ubuntubhoy> mass F5 destruction ?
[12:49] <Myrtti> bcuz it's not as shmexy
[12:49] <popey> AlanBell: because we dont have a time
[12:49] <redtape-renegade> .. the crumpets are being toasted to death as we speak ..
[12:50] <ubuntubhoy> mmm
[12:50] <redtape-renegade> + Raspberry Jam :)
[12:50] <popey> those scamps at xda-developers managed to snag a copy when we were testing
[12:50] <AlanBell> yeah, I heard about that
[12:50] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[12:50] <redtape-renegade> where is their video, then ?
[12:51]  * popey shrugs
[12:51] <redtape-renegade> that is what they are all about !!
[12:51] <ubuntubhoy> and why has it not been ported to the HD2 yet - everything else does
[12:52] <AlanBell> it isn't obvious externally why one download is harder to stage at a particular time than a raft of press releases and website pages
[12:53] <AlanBell> maybe the release involves more than that
[12:53] <popey> "one download"
[12:53] <popey> right
[12:53] <popey> press releases don't crash devices
[12:54] <AlanBell> sure, but I figured the tar.gz of the image has been solid for a week or so
[12:54] <popey> ho ho ho
[12:54]  * popey looks at the build time of it
[12:54] <Myrtti> perhaps it is horribly naive to think that when it was announced that the code and image will be published on 21st, it was already in the condition of being very very near completion?
[12:54]  * Myrtti is naive.
[12:54] <popey> your expectations really do need some recalibration AlanBell
[12:55] <AlanBell> what I was expecting was an image file to be shoved up somewhere, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchInstallProcess to have some text on it :)
[12:55] <popey> its a preview
[12:55] <popey> it's not "complete" by any stretch
[12:55] <ubuntubhoy> so the build will be recent
[12:55] <AlanBell> no, not complete, not expecting that
[12:55] <ubuntubhoy> as in today ?
[12:55] <popey> that was at Myrtti
[12:55] <Myrtti> completion in the sense of being ready to be published at some level?
[12:55] <AlanBell> just wasn't expecting the build to be built today!
[12:56] <popey> it's under very active development
[12:56] <Myrtti> language fails me again and I seem to be poking my nose where I shouldn't.
[12:56] <popey> well the "complete" (I get your meaning) image was published earlier
[12:56] <BigRedS> what's finished?
[12:56] <popey> but not all the other bits were ready
[12:57] <popey> thats how xda got it
[12:57] <Myrtti> my disappointments with mobile platform software development are too clearly visible. Sorry. *goes to knit*
[12:57] <ali1234> lulz
[12:57] <BigRedS> ah, ubuntu on phone?
[12:57] <neuro> huzzah
[12:57] <neuro> i've foundified my usb-microusb cable
[12:57] <ubuntubhoy> popey: what does the Touch build use to determine if the device is a phone or tablet ?
[12:57] <AlanBell> popey: I look foward to seeing the other bits then :)
[12:58] <ali1234> engadget "review" tells all you need to know. basically nothing works yet.
[12:58] <ubuntubhoy> but people want to try the interface, not so much the 'bits'
[12:58] <ubuntubhoy> so it should be complete enough
[12:58] <ali1234> do they?
[12:58] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[12:59] <popey> people want different things
[12:59] <ali1234> i don't know anyone who wants to try the interface
[12:59] <BigRedS> pft. don't be silly
[12:59] <ubuntubhoy> ali1234: really ??
[12:59] <neuro> "Android File Transfer" ... this can't be good
[12:59] <ubuntubhoy> I know loads
[12:59] <ali1234> i know a few people who want to see how it's made though
[12:59] <neuro> i had problems with this before
[12:59] <neuro> ali1234: i want to try the interface
[13:00] <ubuntubhoy> neuro: do you have a custom recovery ?
[13:00] <neuro> no
[13:00] <ubuntubhoy> ahh
[13:00] <ubuntubhoy> not so good then
[13:00] <ali1234> ubuntubhoy: did you say that titanium backup doesn't need root?
[13:00] <AlanBell> I want to see it rotate :)
[13:00] <neuro> it's stock all the way
[13:00] <ubuntubhoy> ali1234: no
[13:00] <ubuntubhoy> I said there are other backup options that dont need root
[13:00] <ubuntubhoy> carbon being one of them
[13:01] <ali1234> oh yeah
[13:01] <ubuntubhoy> but there are others
[13:01] <AlanBell> and I want to try the openERP point of sale UI on it
[13:01] <neuro> i figure blow the stock image back on, sign in and google will cloudify all my settings back on
[13:01]  * AlanBell subscribes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TouchInstallProcess
[13:01] <neuro> and my apps
[13:01] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[13:01] <neuro> and i just need to copy any media stuff back onto it
[13:01] <ubuntubhoy> but not your data
[13:01] <neuro> which is fine
[13:01] <neuro> i think all i have is the free copy of transformers on there
[13:01] <ali1234> and settings
[13:01] <ubuntubhoy> you are as well going through the unlocking process just now
[13:01] <neuro> settings are allegedly cloudified
[13:01] <ali1234> i looked at what is actually in cloud backup
[13:02] <ali1234> "android system settings" - that's it
[13:02] <neuro> hrm
[13:02] <popey> your wifi keys ☺
[13:02] <ali1234> so no app data, no homescreen changes
[13:02] <ali1234> basically nothing
[13:02] <neuro> can't say that would bother me
[13:02] <neuro> i hardly use the thing
[13:02] <AlanBell> I thought google had backed up everyone's wifi keys already :)
[13:02] <ubuntubhoy> for app data you need a 3rd party backup solution
[13:02] <neuro> ba dum tsh
[13:02] <ali1234> it's not possible to backup app data without root
[13:03] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: like titanium, right?
[13:03] <ali1234> and it's not possible to get root without wiping app daa
[13:03] <neuro> lol
[13:03] <ubuntubhoy> but you need root for that
[13:03] <neuro> yeah i know
[13:03] <ali1234> what you actually need is a root exploit, but i coudn't find one for 4.2.2
[13:03] <neuro> ha yeah i upped to 4.2.2 yesterday :P
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> ali1234: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rerware.android.MyBackupPro&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5yZXJ3YXJlLmFuZHJvaWQuTXlCYWNrdXBQcm8iXQ..
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> no root required
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> also they have a free version
[13:05] <ali1234> it doesn't require root
[13:05] <ali1234> but it cannot back up app data unless you have root
[13:05] <neuro> well, this is interesting ... it (Android File Transfer) hasn't copied my Transformers movie across
[13:05] <neuro> YAY!
[13:05] <neuro> i mean, aww
[13:05] <ali1234> if you do not have root, it just creates market links so you can redownload apps, but not data
[13:05] <ali1234> this is explained right on that page
[13:05] <ubuntubhoy> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koushikdutta.backup&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5rb3VzaGlrZHV0dGEuYmFja3VwIl0.
[13:05] <neuro> acht, this should be fine
[13:05] <neuro> i'll just blat it
[13:06] <neuro> oh and by the way
[13:06] <neuro> that Cherry Ripe Double Dipped was EPIC
[13:07] <neuro> "Ripe juicy cherries and coconut lusciously dipped in rich old gold dark chocolate with 60% cocoa".
[13:07] <neuro> ubernom
[13:08] <neuro> re
[13:08] <ali1234> i'll try carbon
[13:09] <redtape-renegade> .. the crumpets died a good death .. RIP my Griddle friends .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griddle
[13:10] <neuro> i think we know what griddles are ;)
[13:10] <redtape-renegade> have you got one ?
[13:11] <neuro> no
[13:11] <ubuntubhoy> he has a deep fat fryer
[13:11] <ubuntubhoy> like all Scots should have
[13:11] <redtape-renegade> you talk thge talk , but ...
[13:11] <neuro> issued at birth
[13:11] <neuro> redtape: what?
[13:11] <redtape-renegade> dont walk the walk .
[13:12] <neuro> i'll try again
[13:12] <neuro> WHAT?
[13:12] <redtape-renegade> .. yeah I prefer Amps, ..
[13:13] <neuro> ok, whatever
[13:13]  * redtape-renegade gives the tweenie whatever sign too ...
[13:14] <neuro> Odd.
[13:14] <neuro> But, in the words of Ross Geller ... "anywayyyy ...."
[13:15] <neuro> popey: sorry, not sure if you responded ... what was the result of the nexus endurance test?
[13:15] <popey> +1
[13:15] <popey> I powered down after it had been up for $time and had $lots of battery left
[13:15] <popey> because I need to test other things on it
[13:15] <neuro> aw dude, come on :)
[13:15] <neuro> $time? :)
[13:16] <neuro> is endurance NDAed?
[13:16] <popey> 16 hours or so
[13:16] <neuro> and $lots?
[13:16] <popey> ~60 or so
[13:16] <neuro> blimey, nice
[13:17] <neuro> i know my ipad can last a few days without needing charged when left idle, but i've never formally tested it
[13:17] <neuro> but then again, it has a battery the size of a nexus 7 :)
[13:17] <ubuntubhoy> My N7 can sit for days untouched and battery lasts
[13:18] <popey> yeah
[13:18] <neuro> popey's test was with ubuntu on it
[13:18] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[13:18] <ubuntubhoy> I sw that the other night
[13:18] <ubuntubhoy> saw*
[13:19] <neuro> so it's good to know power management performance seems android-like
[13:19] <neuro> at least on idle
[13:19] <ubuntubhoy> yeah, deep sleep conservation is really a must
[13:20] <ubuntubhoy> popey: as all the Touch stuff is getting dev releases, what about Ubuntu on Android?
[13:21] <ubuntubhoy> Is it still getting kept hidden away for now ?
[13:21] <popey> thats not part of it today
[13:21] <ubuntubhoy> I dont mean today
[13:21] <ubuntubhoy> I mean in general
[13:22] <neuro> ubuntubhoy: you've broken popey
[13:23] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[13:25] <neuro> aquarius: guten tag meine herr
[13:30] <DJones> Heh, I've not looked at Windows 8, but does it not have the ability to play youtube video's built in? http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/50011/windows-8-youtube-player-deluxe-costs-725-quid-in-app-store I'm sure that must be a bit optimistic even for a diehard windows/youtube fan
[13:33]  * AlanBell loves automatic VPN connections based on wifi hotspot connections
[13:36]  * redtape-renegade doesn't like the mob of chaffinches gathering on the patio .... What do they want ??
[13:37] <ubuntubhoy> payback for the crumpets
[13:37] <redtape-renegade> perhaps it's a wake for the crumpets ?
[13:37] <ubuntubhoy> they wanted them
[13:37] <redtape-renegade> I do habve crumbs .. Oh.. OK then ..
[13:38] <redtape-renegade> Chaffinches get crumpet crumbs today ..
[13:38] <neuro> crumpet crumbs are gateway crumbs
[13:39] <neuro> next they'll be after warburton toastie bread crumbs
[13:39] <redtape-renegade> Birds everywhere .. Aaarrhgh                redtape runs away !!
[13:59] <redtape-renegade> Ari Pulkkinen – Angry Birds: Main Theme  :::: http://open.spotify.com/track/2Aq7zCYfNpb2Q7AkVbMKzk
[14:01] <neuro> no
[14:03] <mungbean> pancakes for lunch \o/
[14:15] <knightwise> stupid question , but are they releasing the ubuntu phone image today ?
[14:15] <popey> yes
[14:17] <knightwise> ah :)
[14:18]  * knightwise looks lovingly at his galaxy nexus :)
[14:18] <BigRedS> pwgen 12 2
[14:21] <knightwise> popey: am i correct in assuming that google contacts will not be available on the phone ?
[14:21] <popey> I wouldn't assume anything, but play with it when released
[14:22] <mungbean> knightwise: did you watch the vid?
[14:23] <knightwise> mungbean: which one (am currently watching an interview with mark where he demoes the phone)
[14:23] <ubuntubhoy> popey: you should enter politics
[14:23] <popey> nah
[14:23] <mungbean> watch the one on popeys g+ today with the frnech guy
[14:23] <ubuntubhoy> you have the answers for dodging down to a tea
[14:24] <popey> french guy?
[14:24] <mungbean> the tablet vid?
[14:24] <popey> dont recally any french vids
[14:24] <mungbean> looks croatian, sounds frnech
[14:24] <popey> hah, oren?
[14:24] <mungbean> yes
[14:24] <popey> hah, israeli
[14:25] <mungbean> ah ok
[14:44] <danfish_wibble> hmmm. Thinking of getting nexus 7 to try out the tablet version, but already have a TF prime. Can't really justify it..
[14:46] <kvarley> engadget are annoying
[14:46] <AlanBell> hi danfish_wibble :)
[14:46] <mungbean> maybe wait till its more ready?
[14:46] <mungbean> or works on tf prime too:P
[14:46] <AlanBell> I am thinking of getting a nexus 10, we have a 7 but I would get in trouble for breaking that one
[14:47] <directhex> pfft
[14:47] <directhex> 10" tablets
[14:47] <directhex> it's 2013. 27" tablets are the in thing
[14:47] <ali1234> yes
[14:47] <AlanBell> yeah, and they should come with a free car
[14:47] <ali1234> i want to see a guy carrying 27" tablet like a ghetto blaster
[14:47] <ali1234> on the bus
[14:47] <ali1234> listening to loud music
[14:48] <AlanBell> http://dhybridcars.com/tesla/2012-tesla-model-s-review-price/media/2012-tesla-model-s-dashboard-image-3/ <- like that one
[14:48] <directhex> http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/desktop/ideacentre/horizon/
[14:48] <popey> mmm tesla
[14:48] <directhex> 27" tablet.
[14:48] <AlanBell> that is only a 17" tabletcar though
[14:49] <AlanBell> more pixels in the nexus10
[14:49] <ali1234> imagine a car with a touch interface
[14:49] <ali1234> no steering wheel just a touch screen
[14:50] <ali1234> it would be the worst thing ever
[14:50] <A5c11Char5et> Hi, anybody good for SQL query statements here ?
[14:50] <AlanBell> A5c11Char5et: I am here because I should be doing SQL stuff
[14:50] <A5c11Char5et> I've got a little SQL problem, I don't dabble in web stuff much so I dunno really whats wrong
[14:51] <A5c11Char5et> Could you take a look for me please ?
[14:51] <ali1234> pastebin it
[14:51] <A5c11Char5et> Don't problem, thanks.
[14:51] <A5c11Char5et> *no
[14:52] <A5c11Char5et> http://pastebin.com/aU8pPth8
[14:52] <AlanBell> what is the question?
[14:52] <A5c11Char5et> mysql_query is returning an error
[14:53] <A5c11Char5et> It says its not good SQL
[14:53] <diplo> Don't think the table name needs quotes, not sure if that's enforced
[14:54] <BigRedS> Tables want backticks rather than quotes
[14:54] <A5c11Char5et> If Confirmed field is an integer would the quotations be omitted ?
[14:54] <BigRedS> ` rather than '
[14:54] <diplo> Could be the fields are not correct for the values
[14:54] <A5c11Char5et> Ah, okay :)
[14:54] <AlanBell> backticks
[14:54] <AlanBell> or not at all
[14:54] <BigRedS> you can generally get away without any sort of quote mark if you've no funny characters and are not using reserved words
[14:54] <BigRedS> er, actually, I think the values list always needs quoting, but not the table name or field names
[14:55] <BigRedS> also, isn't mysql_query deprecated?
[14:55] <BigRedS> assuming php
[14:55] <neuro> BACKTICKS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
[14:55] <BigRedS> Oh, only in 5.5
[14:55] <A5c11Char5et> This is what its reporting..
[14:55] <A5c11Char5et> Invalid query: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ''Name', 'UserName', 'Email', 'PWordHash', 'Confirmed') VALUES ('Jamie Hurst','A5' at line 1
[14:56] <A5c11Char5et> (changed the table name to backticks btw)
[14:56] <BigRedS> hm. perhaps field names are quoted, too. The only time I get anywhere near writing actual SQL it's a bit of a mess and done badly
[14:56] <BigRedS> quoted with backticks, even
[14:56] <neuro> is your table called users or Users?
[14:57] <A5c11Char5et> Users @ neuro
[14:57] <BigRedS> neuro: that'd error with unknown table wouldn't it?
[14:57] <neuro> case sensitivity matters (if your filesystem is case sensistive, at least)
[14:57] <diplo> A5c11Char5et: Have you actually run the query directly against mysql, I tend to do that until i find the issue :)
[14:57] <A5c11Char5et> diplo, no - I haven't. I'll try it..
[14:58] <neuro> A5c11Char5et: do another pastebin of your updated query?
[14:58] <BigRedS> yeah, field names should be in backticks, too
[14:58] <neuro> should :)
[14:58] <A5c11Char5et> http://pastebin.com/N2RwPCEH
[14:59] <BigRedS> well, either backticks or no quotes
[14:59] <A5c11Char5et> BigRedS, ah - okay.
[14:59] <A5c11Char5et> I'll make that change..
[14:59] <BigRedS> like that you've an invalid character in the field name - a single-quote
[14:59] <BigRedS> Personally, I'd not bother. But I generally don't shout my SQL either
[14:59] <neuro> BigRedS has it with the backticks
[15:00] <neuro> keep the single quotes for the data values, but change quotes to backticks for the field names
[15:00] <A5c11Char5et> brb guys..
[15:00] <neuro> (thought it looked funny)
[15:02] <BigRedS> yeah, this is why I never bother with quotes except for values
[15:02] <BigRedS> can never remember which ones are supposed to be where :)
[15:06] <A5c11Char5et> I think its working now guys
[15:06] <A5c11Char5et> I changed the field names to backtick, left the quotes for the values
[15:07] <A5c11Char5et> Like you suggested :)
[15:12] <BigRedS> Hm. I appear to be running libapache2-mod-php5filter
[15:12] <BigRedS> that's not the mod_php I know and love, is it?
[15:16] <danfish_wibble> hi AlanBell - how's tricks?
[15:17] <AlanBell> good thanks
[15:19] <mungbean> dishwasher not finishing its cycle :( must be something invisible stuck in the drain
[15:19] <A5c11Char5et> Great, now I can't get onto my database administration because my web hosts site has gone down :/
[15:19] <danfish_wibble> have been having problems accessing my VPN running irssi since worked blocked ssh, hence the odd nick
[15:21] <danfish_wibble> I'm bouncing off a ajaxterm session here, a tor session there, ip over dns. Fun :(
[15:22] <popey> \o/ new SSD arrived
[15:22] <popey> time to copy/paste some partitios around the place!
[15:23] <AlanBell> sounds convoluted danfish_wibble
[15:23] <AlanBell> how are the ducks?
[15:29] <danfish_wibble> ala
[15:29] <danfish_wibble> oops
[15:33] <danfish_wibble> AlanBell: the ducks are at my folk's at the moment - had a slight problem with our resident foxes, but that's being sorted next month. Got 4 aylesbury's in the end
[16:03] <redtape-renegade> Right, OK Shopping done ! Kettle on , chillax ...
[16:04] <redtape-renegade> what have I missed ?
[16:05] <redtape-renegade> ... other thanm popey popping tablets :)
[16:10]  * redtape-renegade changes his medication from Monster Khaos Energy Drink to Monster Rehab (tea +Lemonade+Energy) Energy Drink whilst no-one is looking. Hehe   <--- Evil grin ...
[16:26] <andylockran> just saw this: All PHP books (including my new PHP Web Services now $5.99) are half price for a week at @oreillymedia oreil.ly/Xq9zVe
[16:26] <redtape-renegade> andylockran: Yeah, good offer.. they do it couple of times a year .. :)
[16:27] <redtape-renegade> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Manx%20Railway%20Central%20Station%20at%203pm%20today%20in%20Douglas%2C%20near%20Tesco.JPG
[16:29] <redtape-renegade> As I sat watching the old trains at the railway station todayn , I asked "Where are the people all gone ? " I waited for 10 minutes enjoying the Sun and having my chocolate covered flapjack from Peel Road .. magicial. Simple things :)
[16:33] <shauno> perhaps they've figured out that railways go nowhere fun on an island?
[16:35] <directhex> they do on the island of sodor
[16:35] <directhex> the trains mostly go off the rails, or into walls, or things. world's most dangerous railway
[16:35] <redtape-renegade> shauno: Yeah, Prob.ly right .. but ppl pass through there usually .. I am just boasting 'cos I got a new digital camera off ebaY for £22 .. and tried it out in a 'secure ' location.
[16:36] <redtape-renegade> directhex: Isn't that a a jackass sketch ?
[16:36] <redtape-renegade> ... haven't had an accident here in 50 years ?
[16:37]  * redtape-renegade asks the TheOpensourcerer for one ;)
[16:38] <redtape-renegade> directhex: Aren't you thinking about the Tourist Trophy ??
[16:38] <directhex> nope. the dangerous rail system on the isle of sodor.
[16:38] <popey> thing is, they manage to get all those accidents on _film_!
[16:39] <redtape-renegade> hahaha .. very good .. watch ojut for Gordion .. he's evil  :)
[16:39] <redtape-renegade> **Gordon
[16:40] <redtape-renegade> !seen Percy off Thomas the Tank Engine
[16:43] <neuro> "Nexus 7 issues: Runs in portrait mode by default. (no side stage)"
[16:43] <neuro> ouch
[16:44] <neuro> This. Is. Alpha.
[16:44] <SuperMatt> ah, I see the compaints have started coming in ;)
[16:44] <directhex> where's the version for hp touchpad? >8\/
[16:44] <SuperMatt> I really don't know what people were expecting
[16:44] <popey> Yes. Well done. It's not like we said repeatedly it's a preview.
[16:44] <popey> Oh, wait. We did.
[16:45] <neuro> Yeah, but still
[16:45] <kvarley> All the same, Ubuntu used to be rock solid. I think people just assume it will work reliably from the get go, which is a compliment to Ubuntu really
[16:46] <redtape-renegade> Can I add one to my Amazon Wishlist yet ??
[16:46] <neuro> woah wait
[16:46] <neuro> the flash instructions are ubuntu only?
[16:46] <neuro> well, i mean, i get why, but ... waaa
[16:46] <popey> shut your noise neuro
[16:46] <popey> it's becoming tiresome
[16:46] <neuro> exsqueeze me?
[16:46] <popey> also, its a wiki, if you have instructions on how to do it with other distros, knock yourself out
[16:47] <neuro> you're joshing, no?
[16:47] <popey> nope
[16:47] <neuro> le sigh
[16:47] <popey> these tools are available on other platforms
[16:48] <neuro> so i'm only permitted to say positive things, ever?
[16:48] <popey> none of us run windows or osx. so haven't tried
[16:48] <popey> others can
[16:48] <popey> I didnt say that. but think before you type maybe
[16:48] <mungbean> in other words: stop, collaborate and listen
[16:48] <kvarley> neuro: Officially Canonical will likely only ever make it tools, etc available on Ubuntu because that's what they are set up to support in terms of finances, etc. Other distro support is community driven.
[16:48] <mungbean> ice ice baby \o/
[16:49] <popey> the "tool" is a python script. last I heard python was also available on other linux distros and even windows and osx
[16:49] <SuperMatt> no wai!
[16:49] <neuro> kvarley: thank you for your considered reply, it is appreciated
[16:49] <popey> wai
[16:49] <SuperMatt> well beat me down with a mackeral
[16:49] <SuperMatt> I never knew that
[16:50] <neuro> popey: and thanks for being particularly nasty when I was simply making a comment
[16:50] <popey> oh please
[16:50] <neuro> no, not "oh please"
[16:50] <popey> you've been around long enough to know the way the world works
[16:50] <popey> stop feining ofence
[16:51] <popey> *offence
[16:51] <neuro> i'm not feigning anything
[16:51] <neuro> do you really think "shut your noise" is an appropriate response?
[16:51] <ali1234> why is there a new tool for flashing rather than fastboot?
[16:52] <popey> it uses fastboot, it's just a python script
[16:53] <popey> to make it easier for our users, it also does the auto device detection and download of image files
[16:54]  * kvarley envies Mike Larabel right now - http://t.co/1keNJOSwH0 (Nexus 7 and a Nexus 10)
[16:54] <redtape-renegade> Wow 5pm flame war .. still better than the Starwars prequels...
[16:54] <neuro> this isn't a flame war
[16:54] <ali1234> "still a better love story than twilight"
[16:55] <directhex> ali1234++
[16:55] <redtape-renegade> ^ better quote !
[16:55] <mungbean> isn't that a film about an abusive relationship?
[16:55] <ali1234> no dude, it';s about sparkly vampires
[16:55] <redtape-renegade> got vamps n' everything !
[16:55] <mungbean> walked in on my missis while she was watchign it
[16:56] <neuro> unlucky
[16:56] <mungbean> had to ask if it was the music video of the film
[16:56] <redtape-renegade> ooh tough one ..
[16:56] <redtape-renegade> how did get out of that pickle ?
[16:56] <popey> neuro: sorry for being prickly, perhaps I was overgrumpy in my response. Won't happen again.
[16:56]  * mungbean draws a line
[16:56] <mungbean> ----------------------------
[16:56] <mungbean> :D
[16:57] <neuro> popey: understood chief, i know it sounds like i do nothing but rag on touch, i guess i just play devil's advocate a bit too often. But I am geting more and more genuinely excited for the possibilities as more info emerges
[16:57] <redtape-renegade> group huig again \o/
[16:57] <redtape-renegade> *hugs
[16:58] <neuro> my point about flashing was more a personal problem rather than a problem with the flash instructions per se - i have no ubuntu desktops that are not virtual
[16:58] <neuro> hopefully parallels usb implementation works well enough to try
[16:59] <mungbean> neuro: just spin up a live cd
[16:59] <kvarley> neuro: Like popey said, it's just a GUI for fastboot :) so technically it should actually work on any distro
[16:59] <daubers> popey: Newb type question: The "Ubuntu SDK", is this just for phones/tablets, or can you use it for desktop development as well?
[16:59] <neuro> kvarley: i have no physical linux desktops :)
[16:59] <kvarley> neuro: Oh...What are you doing with yourself then? :P
[16:59] <neuro> this is an OS X home (the two aberrant windows systems aside)
[16:59] <popey> neuro: it's just using fastboot which is available on other platforms i believe
[17:00] <popey> ali1234: knows more about this than I do
[17:00] <kvarley> neuro: In which case, live CD or live USB :)
[17:00] <neuro> i'll try parallels first, worst case i'll live cd with my dell vostro
[17:00] <neuro> need to find a use for it I guess apart from running VSphere client ;)
[17:01] <neuro> kvarley: what am i doing with myself? sat on my butt every day watching star trek and talking to you lot ;)
[17:01] <mungbean> neuro: for work or play reasons?
[17:01] <mungbean> (vspher)
[17:02] <neuro> play
[17:02] <neuro> unemployment precludes work purposes
[17:02] <neuro> i have two esxi servers at home
[17:02] <neuro> my ubuntu infra runs on them
[17:02] <neuro> plus an N40L for some extra storage and backup processes
[17:03] <neuro> but that runs precise native rather than esxi as i use USB storage on it
[17:04] <mungbean> i use vsphere in enterprise
[17:04] <neuro> it's lovely, isn't it
[17:04] <mungbean> only reason i need windows on my laptop
[17:04] <mungbean> "lovely"
[17:04] <neuro> yeah
[17:04] <mungbean> its powerful
[17:04] <neuro> if they could sort that out, it would be class
[17:04] <mungbean> but when on ibm blades is sucky
[17:04] <neuro> really?
[17:04] <mungbean> vsaphere 5.1 is an improvemnet
[17:05] <mungbean> IBM customise their vmware images, you can't just load stock esxi on it
[17:05] <neuro> aaah course
[17:05] <mungbean> hence the many blade crashes we see
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> why make it standard!
[17:05] <mungbean> due to shonky ibm firmware and dodgy lsi drivers
[17:05] <mungbean> hate ibm
[17:05] <neuro> heh
[17:06] <mungbean> and the big boss who thought it was a good idea
[17:06] <mungbean> already did a big implementation on dell and it went smooth
[17:06] <neuro> "nobody ever got fired for buying from big blue"
[17:06] <mungbean> ibm has sucked royally
[17:06] <neuro> goes the old saying
[17:06] <mungbean> *incorrect saying
[17:06] <neuro> is it?
[17:06] <mungbean> IBM suck
[17:06] <neuro> oh right
[17:06] <neuro> i thought you meant i'd misremembered it :)
[17:07] <mungbean> so many bugs in their firmware
[17:07] <popey> neuro: https://plus.google.com/u/0/111546301798870886212/posts/YQtL332CyT8
[17:07] <mungbean> and terrible products (e.g bladecenter AMM(
[17:07] <popey> he's using a mac...
[17:08] <neuro> popey: interesting
[17:13] <neuro> WHAT THE ...
[17:14] <neuro> when you boot the nexus from the bootloader ...
[17:14] <neuro> the font is the ZX Spectrum font!!
[17:16] <neuro> seems to be working, parallels for the win
[17:21] <redtape-renegade> Today's Squidgy Speak is "LETTERBOX" brought to you by Tesco-Number  Aisle 13 .. http://goo.gl/zerbg
[17:26] <neuro> cdimage.ubuntu.com must be getting slammed
[17:27] <neuro> throughput is all over the shop
[17:28] <redtape-renegade> can you not use ab torrrent ??
[17:29] <redtape-renegade> **a torrent...
[17:29] <neuro> it's the install process for blowing the image onto a device
[17:29] <neuro> it wgets from cdimage.ubuntu.com
[17:29] <redtape-renegade> tell me more ...
[17:29] <neuro> um
[17:30] <neuro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install?
[17:30] <neuro> s/\?//
[17:31] <neuro> although using a webseeded torrent instead of purely http would be a nice touch
[17:31] <neuro> in saying that, just using http does democratise the process, e.g. taking advantage of sys level proxy configs etc
[17:32] <neuro> not everyone can torrent
[17:33] <neuro> related: i noticed the other day that BT have removed p2p throttling on unlimited infinity products
[17:33] <neuro> which is nice
[17:36] <neuro> 3 mins to go!
[17:36] <redtape-renegade>                                                  .. my forehead hurts now, thanx.
[17:37] <neuro> ok?
[17:38]  * redtape-renegade goes and checks his letterbox for a break ..
[17:43] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: Do you bother checking your inbox on Spotify and giving a courteous reply these days ??
[17:51] <neuro> popey: any idea how "Pushing blahblah.zip to /sdcard/autodeploy.zip" should take when running phablet-flash -b?
[17:53] <popey> 10 mins or so
[17:54] <neuro> hmmm
[17:54] <neuro> i'm at about 8-9 mins
[17:54] <redtape-renegade> hmmm what ?
[17:54] <neuro> but the kernel oops in kern.log looks potentially interesting
[17:55] <redtape-renegade> is jono on at 7pm ??
[17:55] <neuro> no
[17:56] <neuro> last night
[18:02] <neuro> well, that's been nearly 20 minutes
[18:02] <neuro> i think it's almost safe to say this has gone sour
[18:02] <neuro> blaming parallels usb in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
[18:03] <neuro> i think i'll stick a pin in this for a bit and watch the newsroom for a bit
[19:01] <redtape-renegade> http://youtu.be/zx7wPN1e_7Q?t=25m34s Ubuntu Global Jam March 1st till 3rd
[19:03] <popey> hmm.. "What's the clonking noise coming from my pc?"
[19:03] <popey> that would be the sata cable stopping the cpu fan from spinning
[19:03] <popey> erk
[19:04]  * bigcalm waddles in
[19:06] <bittin> installing Xubuntu on my new Laptop
[19:07] <bittin> no fucking Windows 8 :(
[19:09] <DJones> bittin: Without the f-word please
[19:09] <Darael> I should imagine that wouldn't be particularly pleasant, no.
[19:14] <DJones> Just looking at the specs for the Chromebook Pixel, certainly doesn't seem a machine you'd replace the o/s on, only a 32Gb ssd for local storage, admitedly 1tb of google drive storage, but only 100Mb of data transfer/month on contract
[19:15] <DJones> Unusual screen resolution though, 2560x1700 (3:2)
[19:20] <ubuntubhoy> £1049 for the Google Chrome Pixel
[19:20] <ubuntubhoy> thats one dear chromeBook
[19:20] <cr0w13y> That's a ridiculous price
[19:21] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[19:21] <ubuntubhoy> even more for the LTE one due later
[19:21] <DJones> Probably cheaper to buy flights to the US, buy one there and then fly home
[19:22] <ubuntubhoy> $1299 in the states iirc
[19:22] <ubuntubhoy> $1449 for LTE
[19:22] <cr0w13y> Need those extra pixels to look at mah crappy mobile phone pics though...
[19:22] <DJones> Whats the betting that 1/2 the price comes from the unusually sized screen/resolution
[19:24] <cr0w13y> How much is the cheapest chromebook?
[19:25] <DJones> £1049
[19:26] <popey> 250 innit
[19:27] <davmor2> 220
[19:27] <cr0w13y> still too much, really.
[19:27] <davmor2> so 230 is what we paid for Sue's chromebook from samsung
[19:27] <DJones> Sorry, was thinking of the new models
[19:28] <ubuntubhoy> the Asus or Acer is it is £199
[19:30] <ubuntubhoy> I would be happy with Chromium OS booting from my HD from GRUB
[19:30] <ubuntubhoy> but it keeps crapping out on me
[19:31] <cr0w13y> would ye use it much though? I mean, what's the selling point on Chrome OS?
[19:31] <redtape-renegade> http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.com/2012/11/looking-for-acer-c7-chrubuntu-tester.html?showComment=1361146976629#c5697624364677273993
[19:33] <ubuntubhoy> cr0w13y: most of my PC time is social media
[19:33] <ubuntubhoy> it's ideal for that
[19:36] <cr0w13y> I guess. I use a nexus7 for that, myself; cheaper and more portable. Not much cheaper though, really. But, I think I could probably do more with the tablet.
[19:37] <ubuntubhoy> I have an N7 as well, and also use it
[19:37] <ubuntubhoy> but at times I like the keyboard
[19:37] <ubuntubhoy> Touch also works very well on chromium OS
[19:41] <bittin> Somone can help me to get wlan to work in Ubuntu on: http://www.dustinhome.se/product/5010663695/hp-655-amd-1-7-4gb-500-15-6-w8/ ?
[19:41] <cr0w13y> Nice. Tell you what I'm after: one of those cheap ARM netbooks with really low specs, no speakers and an SD screen, no touchpad -something really basic with linux on it for doing IT stuff with.
[19:45] <cr0w13y> bittin: open terminal, type: lspci look for the wireless controller. then search for it on t'interweb with the term 'linux' or 'ubuntu'. Sure you'll find something useful
[19:46] <bittin> cr0w13y: only shows up Ethernet controller and NEtwork Controller :p
[19:47] <cr0w13y> what is the network controller called?
[19:47] <bittin> Ralink Corp. Device 3290
[19:48] <cr0w13y> This might help http://rricketts.com/installing-ralink-rt3290-wireless-drivers-in-ubuntu-12-04/
[19:51] <bittin> cr0w13y: will try that :)
[19:51] <cr0w13y> Assuming you've checked everything else like switching wireless on in bios or on a button. Looks like other people had the same problem though.
[19:52] <bittin> cr0w13y: yeah just bought this laptop
[19:57] <cr0w13y> bittin: well do tell us if it works ;)
[19:58] <bittin> cr0w13y: will do its compling stuff now :p
[20:13] <bittin> did not get it to work
[20:13] <bittin> but might be me :(
[20:19] <cr0w13y> have you tried switching it on and off?lol
[20:19] <bittin> yes
[20:25] <cr0w13y> gutted. What Ubuntu are you using, anyway? 12.04 or 12.10?
[20:27] <bittin> cr0w13y: Xubuntu 12.10
[20:27] <bittin> but hard to think when people was shouting on me on Skype, now i turned on some Kraftwerk on Spotify instead
[20:29] <bittin> found it as ra0 now :p
[20:30] <cr0w13y> nice
[20:30] <bittin> will try to share my iPhone to have something to try with
[20:31] <bittin> but networkmanager won't find any wifis :(
[20:31] <bittin> and the button is still red
[20:31] <bittin> hmm
[20:37] <cr0w13y> 12.04 might work better you know.
[20:37] <bittin> http://linuxforums.org.uk/index.php?topic=10422.0
[20:37] <bittin> somone here got it to work in 12.10
[20:38] <bittin> must be me that are a n00b or to tired :p
[20:39] <cr0w13y> take a break and hit it again when your ready, innit.
[20:39] <bittin> yeah
[20:39] <bittin> think ill do it
[20:41] <bittin> don't think i will install Windows 7 on this one :(
[20:46] <bittin> Installing Windows 8 instead, as iam lazy :<
[21:19] <bigcalm> I forgot how much I enjoyed playing Postal 2 in 2003/4
[21:19]  * bigcalm runs everywhere with scissors
[21:41] <popey> i have never played postal
[21:41] <popey> or postal 3
[21:41] <popey> or 2
[21:43]  * popey plays a spot of LA Noire
[21:44] <popey> !bots
[21:46] <Azelphur> I'm thinking about buying one of these laptops with a fancy AMD APU in it
[21:46] <Azelphur> would be good for emulators n some games
[21:47] <redtape-renegade> anyone seen the gogle pixel yet ?
[21:47] <popey> directhex: my desktop (windows) used to play steam fine, now, LA Noire is kinda skippy. like every second or so animation jitters, it didnt used to.. any ideas?
[21:47] <popey> even dialled down all the detail
[21:52] <bigcalm> popey: Anti-virus kicking in? Harddrive on the fritz?
[21:53] <popey> unlikely
[21:53] <popey> not much AV going on
[21:53]  * popey googles
[21:53] <bigcalm> Can you view the task manager at the same time as playing the game?
[21:53] <bigcalm> (multiple monitors ftw)
[21:54] <bigcalm> Does the issue show itself in windowed mode?
[21:56]  * bigcalm gives up on trying to see and goes to bed
[21:57] <popey> heh
[22:05] <czajkowski> evening
[22:11] <popey> yo
[22:17] <Oli> popey: Do you know if the tablet/phone system has a codename that's going to be used for marketing purposes? We at Ask Ubuntu are trying to decide how to group these things under tags but we can't figure out the name of the thing - which isn't great when you're trying to describe it in one word!
[22:18] <Oli> If you don't, can you (or somebody in here) point me at somebody that might?
[22:24] <Oli> To clarify: the release notes call it "Touch", discussion is as "Ubuntu Phone" on Launchpad, we're currently calling it "mobile" on AU (horrible!). The closest I can get to a definitive is the developer.ubuntu.com page that suggests "Ubuntu Touch" might not be a bad name to settle for.
[22:26] <cr0w13y> 'Touch' seems to be it
[22:42] <popey> Oli: ask pmcgowan in #ubuntu-phone?
[22:42] <popey> oh, he end of day'd
[22:51] <Prageeth> hi all
[22:53] <popey> hello
[22:57] <Oli> popey: ta, I will do