[01:42] <yown> anyone here?
[01:48] <Unit193> !ask | yown
[01:48] <ubot2> yown: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[01:49] <yown> No point in typing out a long explanation of a problem if there is noone to receive it
[01:51] <Unit193> I'm more or less here, but not a Unity user if the question is targeted at that.
[02:01] <yown> Unit193: What do you think is the best way to create a live usb drive?
[02:01] <PabloRubianes> yown, in ubuntu or windows?
[02:01] <Unit193> yown: If you are in Windows, LinuxLiveUSB creator, in linux, dd?  :P
[02:02] <PabloRubianes> in Ubuntu you have Startup Disk Creator
[02:02] <PabloRubianes> works really good
[02:02] <PabloRubianes> is by default on your system
[02:02] <yown> No from ubuntu, you recommend startup disk creator over unetbootin?
[02:03] <PabloRubianes> yes
[02:03] <Unit193> PabloRubianes: Sadly only works with Ubuntu ISOs.
[02:03] <PabloRubianes> I always use that
[02:03] <Unit193> Yep, unetbootin works, but isn't the best.
[02:03] <yown> Does it partition and format for you?
[02:03] <PabloRubianes> I just use Ubuntu ISOs :P
[02:04] <PabloRubianes> on the usb drive?
[02:04] <yown> yes
[02:04] <yown> or do I need to do that before running it?
[02:05] <PabloRubianes> yown, it does it for you
[02:05] <yown> thanks
[02:05] <PabloRubianes> and you can put some space to install stuff on the usb drive
[02:05] <PabloRubianes> and use it as a on the go system
[02:05] <yown> so a ubuntu iso, that contains xbuntu, lbunto etc, the different desktios?
[02:05] <yown> desktops
[02:05] <PabloRubianes> no, you need to download the one you want
[02:06] <PabloRubianes> the xubuntu iso or Lubuntu or other
[02:06] <yown> well you said startup disk creator is default, but I guess not for 11.4? since I dont seem to have it, I am installinhg one from the software center, but it comes in two flavors
[02:07] <yown> one has kde in its name, the other gtk
[02:07] <yown> Does kde version mean only for kde? Does gtk mean unity/gnome?
[02:08] <PabloRubianes> means that if you are on unity/gnome with the gtk
[02:08] <PabloRubianes> you install less things
[02:08] <PabloRubianes> the same for KDE and Kubuntu
[02:08] <PabloRubianes> because mainly the gtk stuff is already there
[02:09] <yown> I apologize, I didn't understand completely PabloRubianes
[02:10] <PabloRubianes> yown, no problem
[02:10] <PabloRubianes> I was saying that you can install any of thouse two
[02:10] <yown> So either can provide any of the DE  available for ubuntu?
[02:11] <PabloRubianes> but if you are in unity/gnome, is better to install the gtk version as you don't have to install all the stuff gtk needs to work
[02:11] <yown> *points to question*
[02:11] <PabloRubianes> yown, yes you need the right iso
[02:12] <yown> PabloRubianes: I thought you said the ISO was a base, and you picked and downloaded the DE during installation
[02:13] <PabloRubianes> yown, no you need to download the ISO you want there's a different ISO for each DE
[02:13] <yown> PabloRubianes: gtk is a DE environment? I don't have it in my list of options I wrote down
[02:13] <yown> Or what is gtk?
[02:14] <krytarik> !gtk
[02:14] <ubot2> GTK is the !GIMP toolkit, which forms the base of !GNOME and is used by many applications to provide a !GUI
[02:14] <PabloRubianes> yown, no, GTK es the widget toolkit gnome is base from
[02:14] <PabloRubianes> thanks krytarik
[02:15] <krytarik> :)
[02:15] <yown> PabloRubianes: So I want the gtk version if I am running startiup from gnome, or if I am going to gnome/unity?
[02:16] <krytarik> yown, the first.
[02:17] <PabloRubianes> you need to download the GTK version, and then the ISO you want
[02:17] <PabloRubianes> you creat the usb drive and boot it
[02:17] <yown> krytarik: So even if I am looking to install say KDE, I want to use the gtk version?
[02:17] <krytarik> Yup.
[02:18] <yown> OK when I went to the ubuntu website to download the ISO, there was version options, 32bit.64bit options, but I didn't see a option for picking DE version for the ISO
[02:18] <krytarik> That is decided by the ISO you write on the USB stick, not the program you use to do that.
[02:19] <yown> I mean when I went to the webpage to DOWNLOD the ISO
[02:19] <yown> *download
[02:19] <krytarik> Well, "Ubuntu", is just that, i.e. Unity.
[02:19] <yown> If it is decided by the ISO, I want to download the right one, right? But I didn't see such a option
[02:20] <PabloRubianes> yown, which DE you want?
[02:20] <yown> I am not sure, not unity anyway, but maybe gnome
[02:20] <yown> Does 12.4 still have classic desktop aka gnome built in?
[02:21] <PabloRubianes> yown, the ubuntu gnome remix can be download from here
[02:21] <PabloRubianes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes/12.10
[02:22] <yown> You think I should go for 12.10, rather then 12.4?
[02:22] <PabloRubianes> i am with the 12.10 unity version and it rocks
[02:22] <PabloRubianes> but I don't know if there's a gnome 12.04 version
[02:23] <krytarik> If you want an LTS version, and the Classic Gnome interface, I'd just install the regular Ubuntu 12.04.2 in persistent mode on the USB stick and install "gnome-session-fallback" on top.
[02:23] <PabloRubianes> I got to go to bed, sorry yown
[02:24] <krytarik> Night, PabloRubianes.
[02:24] <yown> What does LTS mean in practical terms?
[02:24] <yown> I know it means long term support
[02:24] <PabloRubianes> night krytarik
[02:24] <krytarik> Long Term Support
[02:24] <krytarik> Yup.
[02:24] <yown> I know, but what does that mean
[02:24] <yown> What kind of support?
[02:24] <krytarik> 5 years of support.
[02:24] <yown> of what kind of support?
[02:24] <yown> what kind, not how long
[02:24] <krytarik> The regular ones are just 18 months.
[02:24] <krytarik> Updates.
[02:25] <yown> You mean like kernal upgrades and stuff?
[02:25] <yown> er updates
[02:25] <krytarik> Yup.
[02:25] <yown> Don't they all use the same kernals, so why would one version have updates for longer then another?
[02:26] <krytarik> !repos
[02:26] <ubot2> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories
[02:27] <duanedesign> they use the same kernel but not the same versionns
[02:27] <krytarik> That is, every Ubuntu release has its own repository.
[02:27] <yown> And why would that be?
[02:27] <krytarik> Compatibility.
[02:27] <yown> I mean if they updated the kernal to a new version, why couldn't that update be used for 12.10 as well as 12.4?
[02:27] <krytarik> I.e. no rolling release model.
[02:28] <yown> I wouldn't think there would be real compatability issue
[02:28] <duanedesign> yown: you would have to test the new kernel with al the packages, etc. It would be very costly
[02:28] <duanedesign> You can always downloaad a newer kernel if you wish
[02:29] <krytarik> Well, then try installing an app from the repos of the current version onto something like Lucid 10.04. :P
[02:29] <duanedesign> I have never been a fun of LTS releases outside of business(enterprise)
[02:29] <yown> Well I don't completely understand, but I appreciate the effort, moving on
[02:29] <Unit193> The issue would be when you get a kernel with a newer gcc version, meaning not bootable.
[02:29] <duanedesign> s/fun/fan
[02:29] <yown> What is wrong with LTS?
[02:30] <yown> Practically speaking, what are some of the things I might find in 12.10 that I might miss in 12.4?
[02:30] <duanedesign> nothing wrong with it...It is just easy for a single user to upgrade to the newer release when it is available
[02:30] <yown> Can one upgrade to a long term support?
[02:31] <duanedesign> LTS is, as I understand it, to keep corporations from having to upgrade their hundreds of machines as llittle as possible
[02:32] <duanedesign> for a single user when a new release comes out, the update manager will tell you. You click yes and it upgrades to the new release
[02:32] <yown> Can one choose to upgrade to a LTS?
[02:32] <yown> Like could I upgrade from 12.10 to 13.4, even if there is a 13.10?
[02:32] <duanedesign> ann LTS is like any other release. It just has a longer support cycle
[02:33] <yown> yes/no?
[02:33] <duanedesign> I always upgrade each release at a time. But it is possible to upgrade from one LTS to another
[02:33] <yown> Or from a .10 to a .4?
[02:34] <yown> even if there is a latter version?
[02:34] <duanedesign> you can not go backwards
[02:34] <yown> You can't go forewards to a latter version that isn't THE latest version?
[02:35] <yown> 	Like could I upgrade from 12.10 to 13.4, even if there is a 13.10?
[02:35] <Unit193> Unless going from LTS to LTS, you can't skip versions in an upgrade, so you'd go from 12.10 to 13.04 anyway.
[02:36] <yown> So if I am on 9.4, Id have to upgrade to 9.10, then 10.4, then 10.10, then 11.4, then 11.10... etc? that doesn't sound right
[02:36] <yown> or you just mean you have to do .4 before 10?
[02:36] <duanedesign> yes. You OP
[02:36] <yown> OP?
[02:36] <duanedesign> oops sorry
[02:37] <Unit193> 10.04 was an LTS, so you could go from that to the next LTS.  (12.04)
[02:37] <duanedesign> if you are on 9.04 you would upgrade to 9.10-10.04-10.10-11.04-11.10-12.04 etc
[02:37] <duanedesign> or as unit says
[02:38] <duanedesign> one reason to keep your computer up to date :)
[02:38] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes for more info.
[02:39] <yown> It seems like you two said two opposing things, but I got enough information out of that where I can move on
[02:39] <duanedesign> under Software Sources you can select whether you see normal updates or Long Term Releases
[02:39] <yown> btw that page says the latest version is 11.10...
[02:40] <duanedesign> what page? that needs to be fixed
[02:40] <yown> Again, why specifically do I want go to 12.10, rather then 12.4?
[02:40] <duanedesign> it is up to you
[02:40] <yown> units link just given
[02:40] <duanedesign> 12.04 will have newer features
[02:40] <yown> duanedesign: not up to me if I don't have comparative information
[02:40] <duanedesign> acccess to newer software versions
[02:41] <yown> I thought 12.10 were the latest
[02:41] <duanedesign> 12.10 is
[02:41] <krytarik> yown, once you are on an LTS version, whether through an upgrade or not, you can jump to the next LTS directly.
[02:41] <yown> Then why would 12.04 have all the newer stuff
[02:41] <duanedesign> sorry i said that worng
[02:42] <yown> Well why on the download page, did it say that 12.04 came out much latter then 12.10?
[02:42] <duanedesign> it might be using the date 12.04.3 came out
[02:42] <duanedesign> it was an update to 12.04
[02:43] <duanedesign> I personally thing their are minimal advantages for a single user to use an LTS when a newer version is available.
[02:43] <duanedesign> But I like the bleeding edge :)
[02:44] <duanedesign> Both wil serve you just fine
[02:44] <yown> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases  Ubuntu 12.10 October 18, 2012  Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS February 14, 2013
[02:44] <yown> 	
[02:44] <duanedesign> yeah that is it
[02:44] <Unit193> 12.04*.2* sure, but not 12.04.
[02:45] <yown> So in this example, 12.4 would be the latest, right? Provide the latest of everything?
[02:45] <duanedesign> no
[02:45] <krytarik> LTS is good for lazy people like me who don't want to be forced to do a full system upgrade every 1.5 years. :P
[02:45] <yown> 1What is the difference between 12.4 .2 and 12.4?
[02:46] <yown> Does upgrading to a new version cause settings or DE or anything to be lost?
[02:46] <krytarik> 12.04.2 is a so-called "Point Release" of 12.04 that includes all the updates since it was initially released.
[02:47] <duanedesign> it include security updates and corrections for other high-impact bugs
[02:47] <yown> That sounds like 12.04.2 would be more up to date then 12.10 though
[02:47] <yown> How is that wrong?
[02:47] <duanedesign> you can read release notes here http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes
[02:48] <yown> I can read em, but that won't answer my question
[02:48] <duanedesign> yown:for example Ubuntu 12.04 has the application test v1.0
[02:48] <krytarik> yown, it doesn't include all the newest features 12.10, or the upcoming 13.04, includes though.
[02:48] <duanedesign> it will always have that version. The only changes will be bug fixes
[02:49] <duanedesign> Ubuntu 12.10 will likely have test2.0
[02:49] <duanedesign> It will have 2.0 for the life of the release
[02:50] <yown> But does that mean 12.10 has newer features, but 12.4.2 has more bug fixed etc?
[02:50] <duanedesign> they can not introduce a newer package for fear of it breaking oter things
[02:50] <duanedesign> alot of times the bug fixes are backported from 12.10
[02:51] <yown> ah, so even with bug fixes, I want to go 12.10?
[02:51] <duanedesign> if 12.10 has the same bug it would be fixed in both
[02:51] <duanedesign> yes
[02:52] <yown> I am sorry if you already answered this, but do you lose any settings or anything when upgrading to a newer version?
[02:52] <yown> or are upgrades pretty smooth, no disruption or anything?
[02:52] <duanedesign> the website recommends 32 bit ( i do not know why). If you have a decent amount of RAM be sure to get the 64bit version
[02:52] <duanedesign> you will not lose anyhting on an upgrafe
[02:52] <yown> gotcha, yeah I have 8gb so I need 64bit
[02:52] <duanedesign> upgrade*
[02:53] <duanedesign> Of course it is always a good idea to do backups before douoing upgrades. I have never had a probllem
[02:53] <duanedesign> but you never know
[02:54] <yown> So do the Xubuntu etc have all the same versions as ubuntu? Do they mirror each other exactly or closely? Or do they fall behind a bit on releases or anything?
[02:54] <duanedesign> if you go under softwware sources tou can configure your upgrade and update uptions
[02:54] <duanedesign> yown: they are all in sync
[02:55] <yown> OK thanks
[02:55] <duanedesign> sorry for typos, getting dark here
[02:55] <yown> Is using ubuntu, then putting KDE on it, the same as just having xubuntu?
[02:55] <duanedesign> need to turn on  a light :)
[02:55] <duanedesign> no
[02:56] <duanedesign> Xubuntu uses adiferent window manager
[02:56] <yown> Isn't window manager part of KDE?
[02:57] <Unit193> KDE is Kubuntu.
[02:57] <Unit193> And it'd be a little different.
[02:57] <duanedesign> Xubuntu uses the  Xfce desktop environmen
[02:57] <yown> oops well change my question so it correctly matches then
[02:58] <yown> 	Is using ubuntu, then putting KDE on it, the same as just having kubuntu?
[02:59] <duanedesign> If you have Ubuntu and then install the Kubuntu packages you will get something very similar
[03:00] <yown> Besides KDE, what else would be in that package?
[03:00] <duanedesign> I have not tried it so I can not sAy for sure. Their are several guides out their so it must work for quite a ffew
[03:00] <yown> and you said similar, what would the differences be?
[03:00] <duanedesign> im not sure
[03:00] <yown> If I put KDE on ubuntu, would it get updated like normally?
[03:01] <yown> as if I were using kubuntu?
[03:01] <duanedesign> if you have the Kubuntu package manager I think it would
[03:02] <Unit193> Same repos, so same updates to the same programs.
[03:02] <duanedesign> ahhh good point
[03:02] <duanedesign> http://www.unixmen.com/how-to-turn-ubuntu-to-kubuntu/
[03:02] <yown> What DE do you use? Can you point me to a website that details the pros and cons of each? Any besides gnome have a menu tree along the side?
[03:02] <duanedesign> this guide^^^ seems a little simple
[03:03] <duanedesign> I use Unuty
[03:03] <Unit193> !purekde
[03:03] <ubot2> If you want to remove all !Gnome packages and have a default !Kubuntu system follow the instructions here « http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde »
[03:03] <yown> unity does not have a menu tree, I know that much
[03:03] <duanedesign> Unity*
[03:03] <yown> I didn't say pure, I said would it update
[03:03] <yown> with KDE just plopped in
[03:07] <duanedesign> what is a menu tree
[03:09] <yown> You know, where you click on applications, places, systems, then can go to other menus that keep on unfolding, like startmenu, except less cramped
[03:10] <duanedesign> ok
[03:11] <yown> What others have that besides gnome?
[03:15] <yown> duanedesign: stll there?
[03:16] <duanedesign> yes
[03:17] <yown> What others have that besides gnome?
[03:18] <duanedesign> Enlightenment, XFCE, LXDE, KDE
[03:18] <yown> Never heard of the first one
[03:21] <duanedesign> Enlightenment is really cool
[03:21] <duanedesign> Their are a bunch more..those are the most popular  ones
[03:21] <duanedesign> ohh an Cinnamon
[03:21] <yown> OK I downloaded 12.4, you guys convinced me to go 12.10, should just use 12.4 and update to 12.10 verses downloading 12.10?
[03:22] <duanedesign> either way will work
[03:22] <yown> duanedesign: Which one would likely be quicker?
[03:22] <duanedesign> you can d/l 12.10 directly or upgrade from 12.04
[03:23] <duanedesign> d/l install 12.10 directly
[03:23] <Unit193> Or zsync it, but wouldn't offer much benefit as much has changed.
[03:23] <yown> duanedesign: How big are these DE?
[03:23] <yown> I mean how much hard drive space do they take up
[03:24] <yown> Because I figured I could install a bunch of em, and switch between them when I feel like trying a new one. Would that likely work well as a plan?
[03:25] <yown> but how much hard drive space would each take up duanedesign ?
[03:25] <duanedesign> depends. LXDE is real light so it is small. KDE has a ton of eye candy so it will be huge
[03:25] <yown> 500mb? Several GB?
[03:26] <yown> duanedesign:
[03:26] <yown> You are giving me relative words
[03:26] <duanedesign> i would have to look
[03:26] <duanedesign> sorry do not have the specs memorized :)
[03:26] <yown> I am trying to look, but not finding the information, would you please look?
[03:28] <yown> duanedesign: And is .10 almost always at least as stable as .4? Or is there ever some unstable beta like qualities to .10?
[03:28] <duanedesign> lxde 15mb
[03:29] <yown> Which is tiny, how about KDE?
[03:29] <Unit193> System installed would be just under 5GB.
[03:30] <Unit193> That's a general rule as well.
[03:30] <duanedesign> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments#Desktop_comparison_information
[03:30] <duanedesign> this shows some comparisons of different desktop rnviromens, including size
[03:32] <yown> well it does tell size, but pretty  sparten comparative information wise, otherwise.
[03:33] <yown> duanedesign: And is .10 almost always at least as stable as .4? Or is there ever some unstable beta like qualities to .10?
[03:34] <duanedesign> no all releases are tested extensively to be as stable as possible
[03:35] <yown> Those sizes listed, are those the amount of HDD space they take installed, or ram space they use up when running?
[03:36] <duanedesign> the footnote says " Reported apt-get installation size on a very basic Debian system with X"
[03:37] <duanedesign> so HDD
[03:38] <yown> duanedesign: So it probably wouldn't be any problem to just use ubuntu, and download and install a bunch of DE then switch between them freely? How do you switch between them anyway?
[03:39] <duanedesign> yown: You should be able to select it (whatever session or desktop environment) at your login screen.
[03:40] <yown> duanedesign: But with mine, it autoskips the login screen, I wouldn't want to have to deal with a login screen every time anyway. So what can I do?
[03:42] <duanedesign> i have a dual boot between windows and i choose which os when i boot. It only takes less then a second. Linux can stay running for months on end if booting is an annoyance to you
[03:43] <yown> I mean dealing with boot screens, I don't leave my PC running, waste of power
[03:43] <yown> And if I duel boot, I would have to deal with two boot screens, one for OS, and one for DE
[03:44] <yown> I like being able to hit the power button, walk away, come back latter to a fully loaded OS
[03:44] <duanedesign> the DE screen will be integrated into the login scren
[03:44] <duanedesign> i have never tried this...but  you should be able to restart x with the ctrl, alt, backspace keys and then change the session at the login.
[03:44] <yown> so how can I make the login screen appear only when I want it?
[03:45] <duanedesign> you cant
[03:45] <yown> And is it complicated to change what DE or OS for that matter, your system defaults to?
[03:45] <duanedesign> but the option i just posted is for switching while you aare booted
[03:46] <yown> so restarting with ctrl al backspace gives me login, even when I autobypass it?
[03:47] <duanedesign> i do not know. I have never tried it and I do not have my login screen turned off
[03:47] <duanedesign> setting your default DE will likely be a line in a config file
[03:48] <yown> sounds like a pain for casual changing
[03:49] <yown> duanedesign: Is there a gnome 2.X bundle ISO I could download? Is gnome 2.x AKA classic still bundled with 12.10?
[03:51] <duanedesign> Cinnamon
[03:51] <duanedesign> is a mix between gnome2.0 and 3
[03:52] <duanedesign> it looks and acts like 2.0 but has all the enhancments of 3
[03:52] <yown> So it has the "applications places system" etc bar?
[03:55] <duanedesign> yown: sorry I have not used it.
[03:55] <duanedesign> I find the dash in unity much faster.
[03:55] <duanedesign> I type 'ge' in the search and Gedit pops up
[03:59] <yown> problem is, I don't know linux like you do
[03:59] <yown> tough to do a search of a program when you don't know its name
[03:59] <yown> but with what I term the menu tree, or the windows if you like, I can look around and see what my options are
[04:00] <yown> duanedesign: So is gnome 2x bundled with 12.10?
[04:01] <duanedesign> their is a folder explorer in ubuntu to search for files/apps
[04:01] <duanedesign> no gnome 2 is no longer bundled with ubuntu
[04:02] <duanedesign> yown: you might look at Linux Mint
[04:02] <yown> I have considered linux mint, but I had people tell me it isn't as reliable as ubuntu
[04:03] <duanedesign> it has many options. One is  Cinnamon
[04:03] <yown> What have you heard about it?
[04:03] <yown> Can't I do cinnamon in ubuntu?
[04:03] <Unit193> You can in raring.
[04:03] <yown> What is that?
[04:04] <yown> Could I put gnome 2.x onto ubuntu?
[04:05] <duanedesign> here is the desktop enviroment Mate running on Mint http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Mate_DE_on_Debian.png
[04:05] <duanedesign> looks a lot like gnom2
[04:05] <duanedesign> you can not put Gnome2 on Ubuntu
[04:06] <duanedesign> here is the Linux Mint running Mate link if interested http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
[04:06] <duanedesign> I have to stwp out for a minute
[04:06] <duanedesign> bee right back
[04:21] <yown> duanedesign: But what about what I hear about mints stability? Is there a DE for ubuntu that is similar in layout or design to gnome 2.x?
[04:23] <yown> Unit193: What is raring?
[04:24] <krytarik> !raring
[04:24] <ubot2> Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) will be the 18th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
[04:26] <yown> So Unit193 is that cinnoamon on raring, gnome 2.x on raring, or both? And when might the final stable version be available?
[04:27] <yown> and how is the stability of it now, compared to final?
[04:39] <yown> ?
[04:43] <yown> Anyone here?
[04:54] <krytarik> yown, you can install both "gnome-session-fallback" and Cinnamon on Raring 13.04 as well, the latter is now even included in the official repos, i.e. no PPA needed for Raring 13.04 anymore. As to Raring's current stability, the wording in the Alpha 2 release announcement cuts it pretty well (even though there haven't actually been created Alpha 2 images for the regular Ubuntu version): https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-ann
[04:54] <krytarik> ounce/2013-February/001015.html
[04:54] <krytarik> Oops. - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2013-February/001015.html
[05:15] <krytarik> yown, btw, as for how to choose another session option when using auto-login, a simple logout would do it as well. ;)
[05:28] <yown> krytarik: What is "gnome-session-fallback"?
[05:28] <krytarik> Classic (Gnome 2-style) Gnome.
[05:29] <krytarik> There is no "Gnome 2" anymore.
[05:31] <yown> krytarik: Someone named bjsnider	 in ubuntu+1 said that the gnome 2 style was a product of gnome 3.8, which won't make it into 13.4, do you know differently?
[05:33] <krytarik> It's actually that the Gnome Fallback session will be dropped with Gnome 3.8, and instead there is a special session based on Gnome Shell with special, Gnome 2-style extensions - but that won't be landing in Raring 13.04.
[05:35] <krytarik> *Fallback sessions
[05:38] <krytarik> However, I'd rather recommend Xubuntu (or plain Xfce) if you are going that 'classic' route.
[06:20] <yown>  Is there a reason not to constantly run in gnome session fallback?
[06:21] <krytarik> No, not at all, you can just use them as any other sessions.
[06:24] <yown> Well That fellow I mentioned before thought it was unfortunate, perhaps because it means one has no fallback then, krytarik?
[06:25] <krytarik> Humbug. :)
[06:26] <krytarik> The Gnome Fallback sessions are meant as fallback for Gnome Shell.
[06:27] <krytarik> In case you try to log in to Gnome Shell, the default Gnome session, but you don't have a sufficient graphics setup.
[06:27] <krytarik> Just like Unity 2D was for the regular Unity.
[23:33] <tashs> hey