[00:09] <Quintasan> apachelogger: No fcitx until Debian has new version which supports more backends
[00:09] <Quintasan> apachelogger: If we decide to ship fcitx now we will be left out with no support say for japanese and korean
[00:10] <shadeslayer> some support is better than no support?
[00:10] <Quintasan> Since there are no backends for Korean and Japanese yet
[00:10] <Quintasan> I believe that after langpack fix it will be okay
[00:10] <Quintasan> Generally ibus has poor integration
[00:11] <Quintasan> Fcitx has better KDE integration but the version Debian has is not feature complete yet
[00:13] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Besides Riddell already blogged about it WORKING so I don't think it's a good time to break it
[00:13] <murthy> ya
[00:13] <Quintasan> apachelogger: BUT if Debian has new fcitx already I could try changing the whole stack but I wouldn't push the change without QA
[00:14] <Quintasan> and by that I mean getting people using the respective languages trying that
[00:19] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: Our dailies for ktp for quantal fail magnificently, can you investigate or want me to do that?
[00:19] <jono> ScottK, can't you take off the two days to participate?
[00:19] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: already fixed
[00:19] <ScottK> jono: Not next week.
[00:19] <shadeslayer> I think
[00:19] <jono> ScottK, I mean for the May one
[00:19] <ScottK> The next few weeks are very booked for me.
[00:20] <shadeslayer> I can make clang crash \o/
[00:20] <ScottK> That depends a bit on what time zone it's in.
[00:20] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: Well, look at PPA, they failed, you might want to retry them if you think it should work
[00:20] <jono> ScottK, always UTC
[00:20] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: mostly everything failed because of tp-logger-qt
[00:21] <shadeslayer> which causes ktp-common-internals to fail
[00:21] <yofel> Quintasan: had any time to look at pykde4?
[00:21] <ScottK> Probably not then as that's out of sync with my family schedule.
[00:21] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: Do retry eeeeet.
[00:21] <Riddell> jono: is canonical going to get rid of non-LTS releases?
[00:21] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: send me cookies first
[00:22]  * Quintasan takes banhammer out
[00:22]  * Quintasan smashes shadeslayer
[00:22] <shadeslayer> :p
[00:22]  * Quintasan goes retrying builds
[00:22] <shadeslayer> no point
[00:23] <Quintasan> or whatever
[00:23] <Quintasan> They will build autmagically later on
[00:23] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: https://code.launchpad.net/~telepathy-kde/+recipe/telepathy-logger-qt-daily needs building first
[00:23] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: AT LEAST add RENAMING the damn contacts to the contact list
[00:23] <shadeslayer> huh?
[00:23] <Quintasan> Please tell me you can rename any contact in 0.5.2
[00:24] <Quintasan> Because for life of me I can't find such an option
[00:24] <shadeslayer> AFAIK no
[00:24] <Quintasan> Then fix it if it's not there already
[00:24] <shadeslayer> ENOTIME
[00:24] <Quintasan> EYOUHAVEPLENTYOFTIME
[00:24] <shadeslayer> Blame the egyptians
[00:24] <shadeslayer> eh no
[00:25] <Quintasan> Then tell me in which file I add this so I try doing that myself
[00:25] <shadeslayer> ask in #kde-telepathy ?
[00:25] <Quintasan> Aren't you working on that as well?
[00:25] <jono> Riddell, Canonical isn't making any arbitrary decision about non-LTS releases
[00:26] <jono> Riddell, any release management changes are a community discussion
[00:26] <jono> and you are better talking to the release team than me
[00:26] <jono> ScottK, shame if you can't make it, but won't the UDS hours fit with your timezone during the day?
[00:26] <jono> it begins at 4pm
[00:27] <jono> UTC
[00:28] <ScottK> Depends on the day.
[00:28] <jono> ScottK, always Tues/Wed
[00:28] <jono> but I appreciate your work commitments will change
[00:29] <ScottK> Tuesdays are 98% bad for me right now.
[00:29] <Riddell> jono: where will that discussion happen?
[00:29] <jono> ScottK, that's a shame
[00:29] <jono> Riddell, when it hits ubuntu-devel
[00:30] <ScottK> If you do virtual, it's just natural you won't get the same level of time and focus.
[00:30] <jono> ScottK, it is a trade-off, some people can't do physical, some people can't do virtual
[00:30] <jono> virtual I think will open the event up to more people, and be more transparent
[00:31] <murthy> i am off to bed see you all later
[00:34] <shadeslayer> yofel: btw I just added "|arch=!amd64" after the optional flag to the symbols file
[00:36]  * shadeslayer is still hungry and Quintasan won't send me cookies
[00:37]  * Quintasan throws a banhammer at shadeslayer
[00:37]  * shadeslayer dodges
[00:38] <Quintasan> No. You don't
[00:38]  * Quintasan throws 5k banhammers at shadeslayer
[00:38]  * yofel can't send any cookies because he ate all that were left earlier
[00:39]  * shadeslayer uses matrix reflex skills to dodge 5K banhammers
[00:39]  * yofel hands Quintasan Mr. Smith
[00:40] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: Do you know the Donkey from Worms World Party?
[00:40]  * Quintasan sends one over at shadeslayer
[00:40] <shadeslayer> oh lord jesus
[00:40] <shadeslayer> I'm done for
[00:40] <Quintasan> So
[00:40] <Quintasan> What you want me to QA in that 0.5.3?
[00:40] <Quintasan> It wokrs
[00:41] <Quintasan> works*
[00:41] <shadeslayer> good enough
[00:41] <Quintasan> give me your jid
[00:41] <Quintasan> Because I dropped the jabber.org one
[00:41] <Quintasan> Jabber.org going down three times a day is not a good sign
[00:45]  * Quintasan out
[00:45] <Quintasan> Good night
[01:14] <ScottK> jono: Besides, I already took a week out of my life to plan a release that Canonical is about to cancel, so why would I be foolish enough to do that again.
[01:17] <jono> ScottK, I guess we can never do anything right, eh?
[01:18] <ScottK> Independent of if switching to LTS only is a good idea or not, this is most certainly not the time to do it.
[01:19] <ScottK> It should be done after 14.04 rather than dumping it onto everyone in the middle of an LTS cycle.
[01:20] <jono> ScottK, I am not the right the guy to have this discussion with, you are better discussing this with the Canonical release team folks and engineering managers
[01:21] <ScottK> Canonical does seem to pretty consistently fail in basic project management and communication matters.
[01:21] <jono> ScottK, depends on your view
[01:21] <jono> I would disagree, then again I am a manager at Canonical :-)
[01:22] <jono> I think we do a lot of good work, but there are some mistakes we have made
[01:22] <ScottK> I agree there is good work.
[01:22] <jono> the thing is, the goal with this UDS really is to make things more open and communacitive
[01:23] <jono> as I wrote in my last blog, remotely participating at UDS is harder than it could be
[01:23] <ScottK> So what are we supposed to plan mid-cycle at a UDS?
[01:23] <ScottK> Makes no sense.
[01:23] <jono> well, it makes sense for some teams
[01:23] <jono> as an example, I would find it useful for Ubuntu Accomplishments
[01:23] <jono> and for community management related topics
[01:24] <ScottK> Right, but that's not work tied to releases.
[01:24] <jono> such as the port-o-thon
[01:24] <jono> right, but no one is saying you have to utilize every UDS
[01:24] <jono> if you want to plan every two UDSs, just do that
[01:24] <ScottK> The primary focus of UDS has always been to plan the next release.
[01:24] <jono> agreed
[01:24] <ScottK> So having one now, makes no sense.
[01:25] <jono> I disagree
[01:25] <jono> with the mobile and tablet work there is lots to be discussed
[01:25] <jono> remember that needs and goals change in between releases
[01:25] <ScottK> Right, but those are largely internal Canonical projects.
[01:25] <jono> so Canonical wants to discuss a lot at a UDS about the future convergfence work
[01:25] <jono> ScottK, but here's the thing, they are public projects
[01:26] <jono> everything we want to do with the phone and tablet isopen
[01:26] <jono> the code is open and there are daily images
[01:26] <jono> if you want us to be more open, one burden is that we need to discuss topics in an open way too :-)
[01:26] <ScottK> The current images are being built with significant chunks from outside the Ubuntu archive.
[01:26] <jono> right
[01:26] <jono> but that should change in the future
[01:26] <jono> remember they are demos that are evolving into full products
[01:26] <jono> the point is that we released the code now
[01:27] <jono> not when the full product is fone
[01:27] <jono> done
[01:27] <jono> and the UDS next week is going to include sessions to coordinate this work in a community way
[01:27] <ScottK> The fact that Canonical released code makes it non-proprietary.  It doesn't make it anything other than a Canonical project.
[01:28] <jono> ScottK, dude
[01:28] <jono> will you ever cut us some slack when we are trying to do the right thing
[01:28] <jono> ?
[01:28] <ScottK> When I see it.
[01:28] <jono> ok
[01:28] <ScottK> Just describe it accurately.
[01:28] <ScottK> It's currently a Canonical project that you've published source for and would like to get a broader community working on.
[01:29] <ScottK> I think that's fair, accurate, and a good thing.
[01:29] <ScottK> Don't oversell.
[01:29] <jono> how am I overselling?
[01:29] <jono> I just said that
[01:29] <jono> we are releasing code that we want to work with our community on
[01:29] <ScottK> Right, but the community aspect of it is mostly a future thing.
[01:30] <jono> how so?
[01:30] <jono> the code is available right now in branches
[01:30] <jono> and we have a number of projects actively encouraging community participation:
[01:30] <jono> 1) port-o-thon
[01:30] <ScottK> Right, but making code available doesn't make a community project.
[01:30] <jono> 2) ubuntu core apps
[01:30] <Darkwing> Jono: 
[01:30] <Darkwing> toro?
[01:30] <Darkwing> :-D 
[01:31] <jono> ScottK, right, which is why we are having a UDS to discuss it
[01:31] <ScottK> Since feature freeze is in a couple of weeks, it's a bit of an odd time.
[01:31] <jono> *sigh*
[01:32] <jono> I think this is a fruitless discussion, you have already made up your mind
[01:32] <jono> we are just going around in circles
[01:32] <ScottK> I'm not the only one.
[01:32] <ScottK> If you want community buy in, involve us in the conversation before decisions are made.
[01:33] <jono> was I supposed to include you in the conversation when I created Ubuntu Accomplishments?
[01:33] <jono> or Lernid?
[01:33] <jono> or Jokosher?
[01:33] <ScottK> No, but changing UDS has pretty broad impacts on a lot of people.
[01:33] <jono> agreed, which is why after two UDSs we will review how well it works
[01:33] <jono> and UDS has always been a Canonical funded event
[01:34] <ScottK> In part.
[01:34] <jjesse> why wasn't this change discussed at a UDS
[01:34] <jono> we pay for everything, and sponsor 50 community members
[01:34] <ScottK> You also have sponsors.
[01:34] <jjesse> and gotten community feedback then?
[01:34] <jono> jjesse it wasn't an idea at UDS
[01:34] <jjesse> like at this UDS?
[01:34] <ScottK> Also Canonical is not the only one paying to sponsor people to go to UDS.
[01:35] <jono> ScottK, no, but we sponsor the majority of people, and we fund the majority of the event
[01:35] <jono> anyway, as we already agreed
[01:35] <jono> this is going around in circles
[01:36] <ScottK> Sure.  Majority, but not 100%.  Canonical is the primary, but not only stakeholder.
[01:36] <jono> I am going to get back to work
[01:36] <jono> thanks for the discussion
[01:40] <ScottK> UDS for Google+ users only now too.  That's a nice enhancement.
[01:41] <Darkwing> I'm kinda digging the G+ Hangout thing except...
[01:41] <Darkwing> what are they going to do about the 10 people limit?
[01:42] <Darkwing> Limiting 10 people to an online discussion will be interesting.
[01:42] <jjesse> btw ScottK i agreed w/ everything you said (typed)
[01:42] <ScottK> Thanks.
[01:43] <ScottK> Google+ privacy policy is inconsistent with my values.
[01:43] <ScottK> I don't mind using it to read other people's stuff, but I don't want to write anything on it.
[01:43] <jjesse> so it looks like you can't attend UDS
[01:43] <jjesse> i was surprised by the choice of g+ 
[01:43] <ScottK> Wasn't going to anyway, but yet.
[01:44] <jjesse> i think G+ might discourage people from attending as well
[01:45] <Darkwing> I saw we hold our own online talks... oh wait, we already do.
[01:45] <Darkwing> daily.
[01:55] <Darkwing> Anyone happen to know what backend the KDE techbase (techbase.kde.org) is written in?
[01:57] <ScottK> Mamarok: ^^^?
[02:04] <shadeslayer> it's down
[02:04] <shadeslayer> or rather
[02:04] <shadeslayer> oh
[02:04] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: mediawiki IIRC
[02:05] <shadeslayer> yup, MediaWiki
[02:05] <shadeslayer> "<meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.20.2" />"
[02:05] <shadeslayer> all hail MediaWiki
[02:07]  * shadeslayer finds this odd
[02:07] <Darkwing> Thanks shadeslayer
[02:07] <Darkwing> Riddell: ping
[02:08] <shadeslayer> np
[02:08] <Darkwing> I have a vision...
[02:08] <Darkwing> Not sure how I'm going to pull it off just yet but, I have a vision.
[02:18] <ScottK> They have medication for that.
[02:36] <Darkwing> ScottK: I think that's why I have it.
[02:36] <ScottK> Heh.
[03:12] <bkerensa> ScottK: kudos to you and you dont even know why!
[03:14] <ScottK> bkerensa: Why?
[03:14]  * ScottK suspects p.u.c is involved.
[03:21] <ScottK> jono: correction added.  Thanks.  I did, in fact, misread the announcement.
[03:21]  * shadeslayer suspects unicorns are involved
[03:22]  * shadeslayer goes back to building android
[03:23]  * ScottK heard Unicorn is tasty.
[03:23] <shadeslayer> /o\
[03:23]  * shadeslayer sticks fedora stickers on ScottK's laptop
[03:29]  * ScottK waits for 4.9.5 to install ...
[03:39] <ScottK> Works.
[03:39] <ScottK> yofel: Looks good here on 4.9.5 from proposed.  Thanks.
[04:05] <ScottK> How do I get "canconfirm" permission on b.k.o?
[04:22] <jono> ScottK, np
[06:54] <soee> good morning
[07:18] <mikhas> hm, what's the deadline for proposing GSOC ideas @ http://community.kde.org/GSoC/2013/Ideas ?
[07:18] <mikhas> am thinking of adding some Maliit tasks there
[08:14] <ovidiu-florin> hello world :D
[08:14] <Mamarok> Darkwing: can I help bringing this vision to maturation?
[10:05] <Riddell> Darkwing: you pinged?
[12:13]  * smartboyhw says hi to everyone
[12:13] <Riddell> hi smartboyhw 
[12:13] <smartboyhw> What sort of Kubuntu news do we have? (Except of course the stupid UDS-changing thing_
[12:13]  * smartboyhw needs to talk to jono
[12:16] <Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/daily-preinstalled/current/ has appeared
[12:18] <smartboyhw> Riddell, :D
[12:18]  * smartboyhw doesn't have a Nexus 7 to test anyway
[12:18] <Riddell> mine doesn't seem to be in a cooperative mood
[12:18] <smartboyhw> Riddell, uh
[12:20] <Riddell> I think I'll let it charge for a bit before trying again
[12:20] <smartboyhw> Riddell, :)
[12:25] <Darkwing> MOrning.
[12:26] <smartboyhw> Hello Darkwing 
[12:26] <Darkwing> Mamarok: I was wanting to know what was used for the techbase.kde, I have a vision for doing that for Kubuntu stuff because it's much better looking and flowing than the wiki it.
[12:26] <Darkwing> it/is
[12:26] <smartboyhw> Riddell, why are you saying Darkwing as a training leader? (/me wants to know the reason)
[12:27] <smartboyhw> Riddell, should I post about the kubuntu-active images to Planet Ubuntu? I want to do some blogging today
[12:27] <Mamarok> Darkwing: well, I used to like moin-moin wiki, but since I use Mediawiki more I started to loath the moin-moin one :)
[12:28] <Darkwing> smartboyhw: I'm going to Uni for Organizational Leadership degree
[12:28] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, good one there:)
[12:28] <Darkwing> Mamarok: MediaWiki has language support?
[12:28] <Mamarok> yes, of course
[12:29] <Mamarok> but these are things you best ask neverendingo in #kde-www, he is one of our wiki overlords
[12:29] <Darkwing> Hah! I knew there had to be a channel for it :D
[12:29] <Darkwing> thanks Mamarok
[12:29] <Mamarok> Darkwing: you are welcome :)
[12:29] <Mamarok> there is always a channel for everything :)
[12:29] <Darkwing> Mamarok: But of course.
[12:30] <Darkwing> I should really extend my doc writing to KDE as well.
[12:30] <Mamarok> Darkwing: well, userbase.kde.org is where we write docs
[12:31] <Darkwing> DocBook FTW
[12:31] <Mamarok> well, it is not so good for new contributors as there are not many good editors out there, and we have a skritp that can export from mediawiki to docbook :)
[12:31] <Mamarok> that's how we wrote the Amarok handbook
[12:32] <Mamarok> script*
[12:32] <Darkwing> I write DocBook for the Kubuntu Docs
[12:32] <Darkwing> at least the shipped system docs are.
[12:32] <Mamarok> Darkwing: whcih leaves out a lot of potential contriibutors who would be able to contribute to a wiki more likely
[12:32] <Darkwing> Hence why I wanted to know what you guys used.
[12:32] <Mamarok> of course we ship docbook, but for the user POV docbook is a PITA
[12:33] <Darkwing> Yeah, I've run into that.
[12:33] <Mamarok> so if you want contributors, use the wiki and then export
[12:33] <Darkwing> Not to mention the validation
[12:33] <Darkwing> Mamarok: That is a great idea
[12:33] <Mamarok> check with neverendingo and yurchor in #kde-www
[12:34] <Mamarok> it works really well
[12:34] <Mamarok> and without that we still wouldn't have a decent handbook for Amarok
[12:34] <Mamarok> OK, food calls, later
[12:34] <Darkwing> thanks again.
[12:34] <Darkwing> Riddell: ping when you have a chance
[12:35] <Darkwing> and it's not 5a my time :P
[12:36] <Darkwing> Good morning smartboyhw
[12:36] <shadeslayer> Riddell: want help with your Archos G9?
[12:36] <Riddell> highvoltage: ooh sarcy :)
[12:37]  * shadeslayer has a failing disk
[12:37] <Riddell> Darkwing: pong?
[12:37] <shadeslayer> have to get it replaced tomorrow
[12:37] <Darkwing> Riddell: that convo I just had... how hard would be it be got a userdoc.kubuntu.org with mediawiki?
[12:37] <Riddell> smartboyhw: save the blog until someone's testing they are in some sort of working state
[12:38] <smartboyhw> Riddell, :)
[12:38] <Riddell> Darkwing: I doubt canonical will put it on their servers, you can set it up on some other server and ask canoical sysadmin to point the domain at it, dunno if they'll do so
[12:38]  * Darkwing sighs
[12:39] <shadeslayer> somehow I doubt that's going to happen in this lifetime
[12:39] <Riddell> Darkwing: but it would be worth a shot
[12:39] <Darkwing> Riddell: I know it would. Who do I send the request to?
[12:40] <Darkwing> Maybe I'll ping the CC and see if they would help me since they seem to want to help.
[12:40] <Riddell> Darkwing: rt@ubuntu.com  please point domain name at IP address foo
[12:40] <Riddell> shadeslayer: Darkwing here is on a leadership course at uni
[12:40] <shadeslayer> maybe also get qa.kubuntu.org pointed to http://209.141.48.59/
[12:41] <Riddell> smartboyhw: Darkwing here is on a leadership course at uni
[12:41] <shadeslayer> oooh
[12:41] <smartboyhw> Riddell, he told me:)
[12:41] <smartboyhw> Em qa.ubuntu.com doesn't exist does it *now*
[12:41] <highvoltage> Riddell: sarcy? :)
[12:42] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, shouldn't be difficult to point
[12:42] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: it does
[12:43] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, so this includes the Quantal -> Raring, Oneiric -> Precise & Lucid -> Precise test upgrades right?
[12:43] <shadeslayer> no
[12:43]  * smartboyhw is thinking of implementing it to Ubuntu Studio
[12:43] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, eh!?
[12:43] <shadeslayer> kubuntu is Quantal -> Raring
[12:43] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, OK
[12:43] <shadeslayer> kubuntu-backports is : Quantal -> Quantal + 4.10 -> Raring
[12:43] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, oh:P
[12:44] <Darkwing>   My email has gone wonky...
[12:44] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, would it be possible for the automated testing system to auto report a testcase result to Ubuntu ISO QA Tracker (upgrade testcases)?
[12:46] <shadeslayer> idk
[12:48] <shadeslayer> is there an API I can send reports to?
[12:51] <shadeslayer> there is, except it's a read only API
[12:51] <shadeslayer> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/api/help/
[13:17] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, yep
[13:17] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: oh?
[13:17] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, I mean I am confirming your opinion about read-only API
[13:17] <shadeslayer> plz to send link
[13:17] <shadeslayer> ah
[13:17] <shadeslayer> okay
[13:18] <shadeslayer> kind of pointless that is
[13:18] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, however one strange thing: ubuntu-cdimage is actually having the highest reported testcases for Raring Alpha 2
[13:18] <smartboyhw> Which is EXTREMELY strange
[13:18] <shadeslayer> okay
[13:18] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, ask the ubuntu-cdimage team for that:P
[13:18] <shadeslayer> yeah
[13:18] <shadeslayer> will do
[13:19] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, :)
[13:27] <shadeslayer> not sure if anyone saw the annoucement, but there's a ARM64 arch now
[13:41] <BluesKaj> hey folks
[14:00] <Darkwing> Hey BluesKaj
[14:02] <BluesKaj> hi Darkwing
[14:02] <BluesKaj> snowing here , again  :(
[14:02] <BluesKaj> well snow/rain 
[14:03] <Darkwing> Same here.
[14:03] <Darkwing> It all froze last night so, ice everywhere and starting to melt :/
[14:04] <BluesKaj> yeah it's right at the freezing point or slightly above ...messy 
[14:05] <BluesKaj> huge storm, over 1000mi wide 
[14:14] <soee> +7 here and sunny :)
[14:18] <Riddell> it's gorgeous in bonny scotland
[14:19] <BluesKaj> Well , the Americans can't blame us for this storm , it formed in Texas and it's moving NE
[14:21] <BluesKaj> thanks to the Bermuda current or the Brirtish Isles would be like Northern Canada :)
[14:22] <shadeslayer> hmm
[14:22] <BluesKaj> no hmms about it
[14:22] <shadeslayer> Riddell: did you have a look on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
[14:23] <shadeslayer> to figure out porting instructions for the Archos 101 G9
[14:23] <Riddell> shadeslayer: nope, looks scary :)
[14:23] <shadeslayer> it's not :P
[14:24] <shadeslayer> I'm going to give the TF101 another try
[14:24] <shadeslayer> the biggest problem being my shitty wifi speed
[15:00] <shadeslayer> rdieter: ping
[15:00] <rdieter> shadeslayer: hola
[15:01] <shadeslayer> rdieter: hi, do you guys have QtWebkit 2.3 compiled with GStreamer 1.0?
[15:01] <Riddell> shadeslayer: pst, ask him if he has it compiled on powerpc first
[15:01] <rdieter> shadeslayer: no, i only just managed to get the sucker to built very recently, but only against gst-0.10
[15:01] <shadeslayer> lul
[15:01] <rdieter> i didn't see any references to gst1 in the sources, but I didn't look too hard either
[15:02] <shadeslayer> rdieter: I tried to compile it with gst1 : http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/build
[15:03] <rdieter> ah, -DGST_API_VERSION=1.0 -DGST_API_VERSION_1 defines.  yay.  did that require any manual config or patching to enable it?
[15:03] <shadeslayer> yep
[15:05] <shadeslayer> give me a second
[15:05] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I am writing an angry post about the new UDS arrangement:P
[15:06] <shadeslayer> rdieter: http://paste.kde.org/682958/
[15:07] <rdieter> shadeslayer: ok, I'll try to give it a whirl
[15:07] <shadeslayer> didn't build for me, feel free to poke me if you get it to build
[15:08] <rdieter> shadeslayer: what's the source of that patch, is that something homegrown or upstream or ??
[15:08] <shadeslayer> a mix of homegrown and upstream
[15:08] <shadeslayer> let me find the ref
[15:09] <smartboyhw> jono, hello
[15:09]  * smartboyhw wants a talk
[15:11] <jono> hey smartboyhw
[15:11] <smartboyhw> jono, only one thing:
[15:11] <smartboyhw> UDS online starts at 16:00 UTC
[15:11] <shadeslayer> rdieter: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106669
[15:11] <jono> smartboyhw, right
[15:12] <smartboyhw> However for us Asians (Chinese + Japanese + Korean) that would mean midnight
[15:12] <rdieter> shadeslayer: thx
[15:12] <smartboyhw> jono, I suggest UDS to start at 14:00 UTC or 15:00 UTC
[15:12] <jono> smartboyhw, why?
[15:12] <shadeslayer> rdieter: that doesn't apply completely
[15:12] <shadeslayer> rdieter: so I had to modify it a bit
[15:13] <rdieter> shadeslayer: sure, probably depends on which branch is used
[15:13] <smartboyhw> jono, 14:00 UTC would be 22:00 for me in Hong Kong (and Beijing), which is almost sleeping time. The Europeans will be after-lunch. The Americans will be awake by then:)
[15:13] <shadeslayer> yeah
[15:14]  * apachelogger falls over
[15:14] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, whoa!~?
[15:14] <jono> smartboyhw, the americans in California are not awake then :-)
[15:15] <smartboyhw> jono, and by your time the Asians will be asleep....
[15:15] <shadeslayer> rdieter: I've been told that if you apply this instead : http://paste.opensuse.org/31253325 : it works
[15:15] <smartboyhw> jono, make it 15:00 UTC please
[15:15] <shadeslayer> and that mine is missing some minor adjustments
[15:15] <apachelogger> no transparency for asian contributors :(
[15:15] <shadeslayer> ^
[15:16] <rdieter> shadeslayer: cool
[15:16] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, yeah
[15:16] <jono> smartboyhw, for this event we are going to stick to the original time, but we may adjust it for the event after
[15:16] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, where are you from
[15:16] <smartboyhw> jono, OK
[15:16] <apachelogger> the moon
[15:16] <shadeslayer> lol
[15:17] <apachelogger> so this l10n stuff
[15:17] <apachelogger> ...
[15:17] <apachelogger> I don't know where to start.
[15:17] <jono> smartboyhw, I am sure there will be lots of things we will fix and improve based on feedback :-)
[15:17] <apachelogger> It is just so hugely complicated.
[15:17] <smartboyhw> jono, :P
[15:18] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: Did you document the upgrade QA yet?
[15:18] <shadeslayer> LS
[15:18] <shadeslayer> :S
[15:18] <shadeslayer> someone needs to clone me
[15:18] <shadeslayer> so that I can be lazy while clones work
[15:19] <apachelogger> https://translations.launchpad.net/ <- Note how the translatable OS column is sorted
[15:19] <apachelogger> we've had 3 klingon translations to 13.04
[15:21] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:26] <apachelogger> dpm: pingy
[15:27] <dpm> hey apachelogger, pongy!
[15:27] <dpm> (I'm about to hop into multiple calls, so I might not be too responsive for the next couple of hours)
[15:28] <apachelogger> dpm: heya, can we create the same template in multiple sources and launchpad merges them into one?
[15:29] <apachelogger> use case being that we generate a kubuntu.pot from each source package that has kubuntu-specific string changes, but launchpad presents one template and we load one .mo 
[15:30] <dpm> apachelogger, hm, no, that's not possible unfortunately. The model is that each template (or set of templates) is bound to a source package
[15:30] <apachelogger> ok thanks
[15:31] <dpm> could you create a fake source package to contain all templates perhaps?
[15:31] <apachelogger> that'd be an option
[15:34] <apachelogger> Riddell, shadeslayer: options for kubuntu-specific l10n: create fake source to create one kubuntu.pot for launchpad (needs to be updated to trigger pot update); create kubuntu-foo.pot for package foo and load that (ought to be more expensive at runtime ... e.g. if kdeui, libplasma and amarok carries changes in amarok that's 3 more files to hold open/look through)
[15:34] <apachelogger> opinions?
[15:34] <shadeslayer> > l10n magic
[15:35] <apachelogger> mhh, actually the fake source is a bit tricky
[15:35] <apachelogger> need to get each source we care about
[15:36] <apachelogger> so probably kubuntu package set 
[15:36] <apachelogger> which requires that thingy to be complete
[15:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: it's just a few patches isn't it?
[15:38] <Riddell> apachelogger: I was thinking put those patches into a dedicated source tar and get it to make a .pot from them
[15:38] <Riddell> that's a code copy so not entirely reliable but we don't change such strings much
[15:38] <Riddell> and I don't even know how many there are, maybe none
[15:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: that requires people to be aware of a) that they change a string b) that they need to copy it...
[15:39] <apachelogger> don't like it TBH
[15:41] <Riddell> it's not great but I can't think of a better way
[15:42] <apachelogger> get each source in our package set
[15:42] <apachelogger> generate original pot
[15:42] <apachelogger> apply patches
[15:42] <apachelogger> generate patched pot
[15:42] <apachelogger> diff pots, append result to kubuntu.pot
[15:43] <Riddell> that sounds fiddly and still requires some manual work when changing a string
[15:43] <Riddell> so I don't see the advantage
[15:43] <apachelogger> it doesn't require manual work when changing a string
[15:43] <apachelogger> it requires manual work at key points in the l10n schedule
[15:44] <apachelogger> i.e. at least run script and upload package after string freeze
[15:46] <Riddell> mm right
[15:48] <apachelogger> yofel: did you follow up on bug 1080115 btw
[15:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: ultimately the single point of failure with that approach would be that someone changes a string after string freeze and fails to inform anyone
[15:53] <apachelogger> hm
[15:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: how does kubuntu-firefox-installer have a translation on launchpad but amarok does not?
[15:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: amarok is in universe so doesn't need one
[15:55] <Riddell> so the question is why would kubuntu-firefox-installer have one in launchpad
[15:57] <apachelogger> it ought to generate the pot regardless
[15:57] <apachelogger> we did not remove that I think
[16:27] <yofel__> apachelogger: not particulary, I can look at it again after FF. I guess it would need a kcfg script to fix that.
[16:41] <apachelogger> yofel: I meant get the relationship changed in debian
[16:41] <apachelogger> the contionous issue comes from the debian package still being installed on those systems... not much to be done about that
[16:43] <shadeslayer> ooh
[16:49] <yofel__> apachelogger: ah no, I didn't look at that
[16:52] <apachelogger> why
[16:52] <apachelogger> l10n is completely fckd
[16:53] <apachelogger> kubuntu-firefox-installer is in lunchpad but in no package
[16:53] <apachelogger> why it is in lunchpad but amarok is not is completely unknown
[16:53] <yofel__> I forgot? (if that why was for me)
[16:53] <yofel__> need a better todo list
[16:53] <apachelogger> and doing patched base crap is completely mind explodering
[16:53] <yofel__> it's a mess right now
[16:53] <apachelogger> might as well remove kde-l10n-* from the archive to show everyone just how broken shit really is
[17:01] <yofel__> apachelogger: could you not remove the only actually working part?
[17:34] <Riddell> agateau: awooga
[17:35] <agateau> Riddell: if you say so
[17:35] <Riddell> agateau: will review first thing tomorrow, poke me if I forget
[17:35] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[17:35] <agateau> will do
[17:35] <agateau> that leaves me some time to commit a pep8 fix :)
[17:40] <Quintasan> ASRQWFDSG!#$#@T@#R%@Re
[17:40]  * Quintasan configured ssmtp but forgot to report the bug and was wondering why people still want something from him
[18:01] <Quintasan> ScottK: So, reading mail about UDS, it seems dead to me, think they will revert back the orginal form of the event if it goes badly?
[18:01] <ScottK> They claim that.
[18:01] <ScottK> However given it's really expensive, what's the chance?
[18:02] <Quintasan> I just can't see it working in the online form
[18:04] <ScottK> It depends on how you define working.
[18:06] <ScottK> If the success metric is "was it cheaper", it's likely to work.
[18:28] <mikhas> I have no idea how to "participate" next week.
[18:28] <mikhas> I'd have to be online in some G+ hangouts all the time? nah thanks
[18:31] <apachelogger> we'll mumble :P
[18:32] <apachelogger> using a proprietary software solution seems a bit wrong actually
[18:41] <genii-around> Why don't they use like AccessGrid or something?
[18:55] <apachelogger> liase with apol to ensure muon-discover suitable for kubuntu active
[18:55] <apachelogger> how did that not have an assignee? Oo
[19:01] <ScottK> apachelogger: Someone might have even blogged about that fact (using proprietary ...)
[19:01] <apachelogger> [kubuntu-dev] package akonadi-social and dependencies: TODO
[19:01] <apachelogger> what's that?
[19:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: don't read planets anymore
[19:01] <apachelogger> they are all boring
[19:01] <ScottK> Oh.
[19:01] <apachelogger> getting more boring every day
[19:02] <apachelogger> raged about it the other day to some kde people
[19:02] <ScottK> My blog post on that topic was the very next one after the announcement on p.u.c.
[19:02] <apachelogger> ah yes
[19:02] <apachelogger> also a nice post
[19:02] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:03] <apachelogger> "Call for Presenters - Plenaries at UDS" :/
[19:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: what's akonadi-social?
[19:06] <apachelogger> [kubuntu-dev] package kcm_touchpad and compare against synaptiks for default: TODO
[19:06] <apachelogger> if that is http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/kcm_touchpad?content=113335
[19:06] <apachelogger> then I think we can give up
[19:06] <apachelogger> last update 2010
[19:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: ^
[19:06] <ScottK> apachelogger: You can mark my check for new synaptiks version on done.  There is no new version.
[19:07] <ScottK> Right.  Call that done too.
[19:07] <apachelogger> so we have no solution and no options anymore?
[19:08] <ScottK> What we have is as good as it gets apparently.
[19:08] <ScottK> Not enough people like afiestas as willing to work on infrastructure.
[19:08] <ScottK> as/are
[19:12] <apachelogger> [kubuntu-dev] bring back notification when half a language installed from language-selector: TODO
[19:13] <apachelogger> you know
[19:13] <apachelogger> the kcm locale stuff lacks any reasonability
[19:13] <apachelogger> ScottK: we coudl always use the gnome thingy
[19:13] <apachelogger> gnomies love their middleware :P
[19:14] <apachelogger> >>> diffstat -s debian/patches/kubuntu_langpack_install.diff
[19:14] <apachelogger>  7 files changed, 555 insertions(+), 24 deletions(-)
[19:14] <apachelogger> implementing the tasks from the blueprint would probably double the patch size
[19:14] <apachelogger> ...
[19:18] <apachelogger> and no JT here
[19:18]  * apachelogger cries
[19:18]  * Quintasan cries with apachelogger
[19:19] <Quintasan> how the hell I'm supposed to fix ktp when I can't even get the whole stack to find telepathy logger
[19:19] <ScottK> Quintasan: Make shadeslayer do it.  Isn't KTP his baby.
[19:19] <Quintasan> I'm supposed to finally learn how to code
[19:19] <Quintasan> this seems simple enough for me to do alone
[19:20] <Quintasan> I still can make him finish it if I happen to surrender
[19:20] <apachelogger> you've won a work item btw
[19:20] <apachelogger> [quintasan] evaluate input methods ibus and fcitx and ensure they both work, decide which to ship: TODO
[19:20] <Quintasan> IT'S DONE
[19:20] <Quintasan> mark it
[19:20] <Quintasan> as done
[19:20] <apachelogger> no
[19:20] <apachelogger> you mark it
[19:20] <Quintasan> ...
[19:20] <apachelogger> I am not taking responsibility for that
[19:20] <Quintasan> Okay, whatever. Will do later
[19:20] <Quintasan> We ship ibus until I say otherwise, k?
[19:20] <ScottK> For the new Chinese Ubuntu flavor they are using fcitx.
[19:20] <apachelogger> I'll gladly reject all other rubbish WIs
[19:20] <apachelogger> not the ones I know nothing about though
[19:20] <Quintasan> ScottK: They don't have to care about other languages
[19:21] <ScottK> Right.
[19:21] <apachelogger> oh boy
[19:21] <apachelogger> so
[19:21] <ScottK> Is the lack of support for other languages a general problem or KDE specific?
[19:21] <Quintasan> It's general for fcitx
[19:21] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:21] <Quintasan> I have to go now, if you want me to I can explain it in detail later
[19:21] <apachelogger> I move that we stop using work items and instead look for some sane scrum/kanban/backlog software to use.
[19:22] <apachelogger> Quintasan: you could send a mail to -devel
[19:22] <apachelogger> that'd actually be useful for future reference
[19:24] <ScottK> Trello?
[19:24]  * apachelogger takes a look
[19:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: Did you use it before?
[19:30] <ScottK> A bit.
[19:30] <ScottK> One project I consulted on used it.
[19:30] <ScottK> Plus it's done by the Joel on Software guy who usually seems to make sense when he writes about stuff.
[19:31] <ScottK> Having the project conceived by a reasonable person is no guarantee of success, but it doesn't hurt.
[19:32] <apachelogger> easier to use than most other stuff I have seen so far
[19:32] <apachelogger> plus it has an api, so that's a plus
[19:54] <apachelogger> shadeslayer!
[19:55] <ScottK> apachelogger: I asked a guy at the relevant company and they are still using it successfully.  His main point is you have to decide on team conventions since the tool itself doesn't impose a lot of structure.
[19:56] <ScottK> Which I think is a plus.
[19:56] <apachelogger> very much so
[19:56] <apachelogger> most other tools coerce you into using some given workflow/structuring
[19:58] <apachelogger> https://trello.com/kubuntu
[20:05] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm scottk3.  Can you add me?
[20:07] <apachelogger> done
[20:07] <ScottK> Thanks.
[20:12] <Quintasan> apachelogger: He went to bed
[20:13] <apachelogger> you never know with shadeslayer :P
[20:15] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Are we going to use that or it's just testing?
[20:15] <Quintasan> Besides, are we leaving lp infrastructure or what?
[20:16] <apachelogger> Quintasan: use it I say
[20:16] <apachelogger> also there is nothing to leave as there is no infrastructure :P
[20:16] <Quintasan> What's wrong with burndown charts?
[20:16] <apachelogger> it's bits and pieces patched together
[20:16] <apachelogger> Quintasan: nothing
[20:17] <apachelogger> just not as useful as kanban :P
[20:17] <Quintasan> kanban
[20:17] <Quintasan> wat
[20:17]  * Quintasan googles
[20:18] <Quintasan> Oh, I see.
[20:18] <Quintasan> Well, we can give it a go
[20:18] <Quintasan> IMO burndown charts are okay
[20:18] <Quintasan> but they don't give any deadlines save fore MAKE IT BEFORE FEATURE FREEZE
[20:18] <Quintasan> for*
[20:19] <apachelogger> they are really nothing other than progress indication
[20:19] <apachelogger> which you have with kanban as crap moves from one pile to another
[20:25] <ScottK> apachelogger: I don't seem to have permissions to manipulate the cards in trello.
[20:25] <ScottK> That or I'm doing it wrong.
[20:26] <ScottK> Right, I'm not a member for that board.
[20:28] <apachelogger> fixed
[20:28] <apachelogger> somewhat weird though
[20:28] <apachelogger> there seems to be no general setting for all-members-of-org-are-members-of-board
[20:30] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Add Quintasan
[20:31] <yofel> apachelogger: add yofel
[20:32] <yofel> apachelogger: buildstatus has ppa support now
[20:33] <yofel> but I'm open for a better output format than
[20:33] <yofel> digikam [quantal]: [amd64] => Successfully built [i386] => Successfully built
[20:33] <apachelogger> ah
[20:33] <apachelogger> found it
[20:33] <apachelogger> there is a setting to allow all org members to join a board
[20:34] <apachelogger> yofel: ah well, looks good enough
[20:34] <apachelogger> thanks for fixy
[20:35] <yofel> ./buildstatus --ppa kubuntu-ppa/backports --release quantal --short digikam
[20:35] <yofel> digikam [quantal]: [amd64] => Successfully built [i386] => Successfully built
[20:35] <apachelogger> https://trello.com/board/kubotu/512e6dde5bffc004520052d5
[20:36] <Quintasan> apachelogger: well, this looks nice
[20:36] <yofel> fun
[20:48] <shadeslayer> I'm actually back
[20:49] <shadeslayer> I simply suck at going to bed
[20:49]  * shadeslayer signs up
[20:49] <shadeslayer> I also accidentally discovered that my keyboard backlight brightness keys now work
[20:49] <shadeslayer> \o/
[20:50] <shadeslayer> This thing knows too much about me
[20:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: plz add me
[20:50] <shadeslayer> rohangarg
[20:53] <shadeslayer> good, I'm logged out of launchpad and my yubikey is somewhere else, so I can't login and do work
[20:53]  * shadeslayer goes off to read RFC's
[20:54] <apachelogger> Quintasan: he's in bed you said ...
[20:54] <Quintasan> wtf
[20:54] <ScottK> Riddell, Darkwing, apachelogger, jussi: How's this? https://paste.debian.net/238717/
[20:54] <shadeslayer> I am in bed
[20:54] <shadeslayer> just not sleeping
[20:55] <apachelogger> ScottK: don't forget to update the template btw
[20:55] <apachelogger> of course I have no idea where on the wiki we put it so
[20:55] <apachelogger> ...
[20:56] <ScottK> There's a template?
[20:56]  * ScottK just wrote something that sounded right.
[20:58] <murthy> hello everyone
[21:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think I created a wiki page with council boilerplate mails
[21:07] <apachelogger> though I also seem to recall wanting to link to it somewhere and eventually not doing that
[21:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Council/Messages
[21:08] <ScottK> I wasn't too far off that actually.
[21:09] <Darkwing> :D I like it.
[21:10] <Darkwing> But, if there is a template... maybe that should be it.
[21:10] <ScottK> All I have to do is hit send on mine.
[21:10] <apachelogger> +1 from me
[21:10] <Darkwing> +1
[21:11]  * ScottK sends
[21:11] <Darkwing> I have to figure out why I have not been getting mailing list mail.
[21:11] <apachelogger> ScottK: btw, to get a list of addresses you can use kubuntu-dev-tools/bin/kubuntu-members-email-list
[21:11] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:22] <ScottK> OK.  Blogged it too.
[21:26] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: can you upload  https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/poppler_0.22.1-0ubuntu1~ppa2.dsc
[21:28] <Quintasan> murthy: hi
[21:28] <murthy> Quintasan: hi
[22:00] <Quintasan> Well
[22:00] <Quintasan> Going to bed
[22:00] <Quintasan> Good night
[22:00] <yofel> gn
[22:02] <shadeslayer> 4.10.1?
[22:02] <shadeslayer> when did those appear?
[22:02] <yofel> not yet? but tomorrow's tagging and I can't really set that up till the evening
[22:03] <shadeslayer> ah
[22:03] <shadeslayer> okay
[22:03] <shadeslayer> and I was thinking of taking tomorrow off :P
[22:04] <yofel> well, we have 7 days. Plenty of time
[22:04] <shadeslayer> true
[22:24] <yofel> hm, kmix isn't *supposed* to use 218m of memory, is it?
[22:35] <Riddell> yofel: 19+7MB here
[22:35] <Riddell> but maybe I'm just not taxing it enough
[22:48] <jussi> 29 + 19 here yofel
[23:06] <yofel> hm...
[23:19] <Riddell> golly, ScottK blogged twice in one day, what's going on?
[23:19] <ScottK> Crazy isn't it.