[00:03] <TheMuso> jbicha_: I'm just looking at your cogl/clutter sponsorship item in the queue and see its taken care of. I do note that there is no bug closure statement in the changelog. Could you please include this in the future such that the bug is closed, and the bug is removed from the queue such that pilots don't have to take time to follow things up and close the bug?
[00:05] <jbicha_> TheMuso: oops, I did put the bug # in the clutter upload but the other problem is that I don't think it will actually autoclose until it migrates out of -proposed
[00:05] <TheMuso> I know that, but I could at least see that its in proposed, and leave it at that, knowing that the bug will get closed.
[00:06] <TheMuso> Checking that its in proposed doesn't take that long.
[03:21] <jbicha> TheMuso: did you have time for a few rebuilds? otherwise I think Laney can help with it later
[03:28] <TheMuso> jbicha: Sorry I didn't get to them.
[03:38] <bochecha_> jbicha: hi, this is a bit off-topic for this channel, but it's the only one where I see you active. You seem to have made the last change which went into pycanberra, do you know if the author is still working on it?
[03:38] <bochecha_> I have had a pull request opened for a few months without any comment now :(
[03:42] <jbicha> bochecha_: ah it took me a bit to find the project since it's not in Ubuntu directly (but included inside gnome-clocks)
[03:42] <bochecha_> jbicha: gnome-clocks moved to vala, so they don't use it any more
[03:42] <bochecha_> but I'm using it in another project (ibus-cangjie)
[03:43] <bochecha_> and I need it to be ported to Python 3, for which I submitted a pull request 3 months ago
[03:43] <bochecha_> I was just wondering if you had commit access there to review my pull request, or maybe you knew the author and whether he was still interested in it
[05:49] <pitti> Good morning
[07:07] <chrisccoulson> good morning
[07:08] <chrisccoulson> i've got that authentic UDS ubuflu feeling this morning (sore throat and feel like crap) ;)
[07:18] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[07:18] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[07:18] <pitti> oh indeed, do we get an ubuflu plugin for hangout?
[07:18] <pitti> and a beer plugin!
[07:18] <chrisccoulson> heh
[07:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks! much better now, I just found a solution to a bug I chased all of yesterday
[07:19] <chrisccoulson> that's good :)
[07:19] <chrisccoulson> i just seem to get to the bottom of one bug, and then immediately hit another (chromium on arm) ;)
[07:29] <didrocks> poor chrisccoulson :/
[07:30] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[07:30] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, seems for once, I didn't say good morning here btw ;)
[07:30] <didrocks> so good morning!
[07:30] <chrisccoulson> is that a reference to me being unwell, or having to debug chromium issues ;)
[07:30] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: both :p
[07:30] <chrisccoulson> good morning :)
[07:30] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[08:16] <chrisccoulson> right, rebuilding chromium *again*
[08:16] <chrisccoulson> hopefully this build is a bit more useful :)
[08:21] <dpm> good morning all. chrisccoulson, nice picture of you and seb128 "working" on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/ :)
[08:27] <didrocks> hey dpm!
[08:27] <didrocks> dpm: FYI, the sdk is in raring now :)
[08:27] <dpm> morning didrocks yeah, I saw that :)
[08:27] <dpm> nice work
[08:28] <dpm> didrocks, do you think you could answer mdeslaur's question on ubuntu-phone? I don't really know what's going on there -> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg00502.html
[08:29] <didrocks> dpm: hum, I'm not subscribed to the ML
[08:30] <didrocks> dpm: to me, it seems that he has a mix between the ppa and raring
[08:30] <didrocks> the dep is          qtdeclarative5-qtmultimedia-plugin,
[08:30] <didrocks> in raring
[08:30] <didrocks> Mirv: ^
[08:30] <didrocks> dpm: people should really remove the ppa :)
[08:32] <Mirv> dpm: I answered march in private, but didn't notice it was from the list as Pat forwarded it to me. I'll answer to the list as well
[08:33] <jibel> good morning
[08:33] <dpm> Mirv, yeah, answering that one in public might be more appropriate, as I could imagine more folks having the same problem
[08:33] <didrocks> salut jibel, ça va?
[08:33] <jibel> Salut didrocks , ça va et toi ?
[08:34] <didrocks> jibel: ça va bien :)
[08:35] <dpm> didrocks, Mirv, we should probably coordinate any of these packaging changes with updating the installation instructions on d.u.c/gomobile better in the future. What are the installation instructions for raring now, simply not to install any of the two PPAs and then "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk"?
[08:35] <Mirv> dpm: read the post, gomobile is fine as is
[08:36] <dpm> Mirv, which post?
[08:36] <Mirv> dpm: the one I just copied over to the public list from the private mail to Marc
[08:37] <Mirv> dpm: the PPA instructions wouldn't be exactly needed anymore for raring, but they AFAIK don't hurt either - notepad-qml can be still installed from the ubuntu-sdk-team ppa, and otherwise the archive versions have higher version numbers
[08:37] <didrocks> dpm: yeah, no ppa required :)
[08:37] <Mirv> dpm: but you can consider adding some note about raring. see also my up-to-date information always at https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper
[08:38] <didrocks> Mirv: we should remove this ppa now for raring
[08:38] <didrocks> Mirv: and have daily release
[08:38] <Mirv> didrocks: it's already done
[08:38] <didrocks> ah great ;)
[08:38] <Mirv> didrocks: ah, from instructions, right
[08:38] <Mirv> didrocks: I mean, I've cleaned the PPA:s
[08:38] <didrocks> but daily release FTW
[08:39]  * didrocks makes a note for UDS
[08:39] <Mirv> yes
[08:39] <Mirv> as soon as my ubuntu-ui-toolkit merge is accepted, hopefully next week
[08:39] <dpm> Mirv, thanks, I've just read your e-mail. So in a nutshell, things should get fixed automatically (probably at some point today), right?
[08:40] <Mirv> dpm: yes
[08:41] <dpm> Mirv, didrocks, I'm not too clear what's happening to the raring PPA for the toolkit, though, and what we should do with the raring instructions. Could you please expand a bit more on that, and I'll update the installation instructions if needed?
[08:41] <Mirv> dpm: did you read the qt5-proper description page?
[08:42] <thumper> hi didrocks
[08:42] <thumper> didrocks: just to let you know the latest desktop packages makes my laptop happy again
[08:43] <dpm> Mirv, yes, but I was asking about the UI toolkit PPA
[08:43] <thumper> also, I now have an interesting problem with postgresql
[08:43] <Mirv> dpm: ok, I added a note "The ubuntu-sdk-team PPA is not strictly required anymore, but notepad-qml currently resides there." now, does it answer the question?
[08:43] <Mirv> dpm: the ubuntu-sdk in raring does not install the qt-components-ubuntu from the PPA anymore, but notepad-qml is something that is only in the PPA at the moment
[08:44] <thumper> I've upgraded to raring and now postgresql doesn't want to start, saying DETAIL:  Failed system call was shmget(key=5432001, size=41263104, 03600).
[08:44] <dpm> Mirv, gotcha. So what's the plan with migrating notepad-qml to the archive? Or are we not doing that anymore, now that the notepad app's code is public?
[08:45] <thumper> now /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax is the same on my raring box as the precise box
[08:45] <thumper> and the postgresql.conf file says 32Meg of shared mem
[08:45] <Mirv> dpm: I think the app uploads are planned at some point, but the packaging of that or any of the apps has seen no review so far
[08:46] <thumper> so why is it asking for 41263104?
[08:46] <Mirv> dpm: when we get the toolkit daily process working, we can build on top of that
[08:46] <thumper> raring has 9.1+140, precise has 9.1+129ubuntu1
[08:48] <didrocks> thumper: excellent news! :)
[08:49] <thumper> didrocks: do you know who handles postgresql packaging?
[08:49] <didrocks> thumper: pitti is doing it in debian and ubuntu ^
[08:49] <thumper> hi pitti
[08:49] <pitti> hello thumper
[08:49] <thumper> pitti: postgresql doesn't want to start on raring now I have upgraded
[08:50] <thumper> see the message above from 5 min ago
[08:50] <pitti> thumper: oh, that looks like you have too little shared memory for what you configured psql to use?
[08:50] <thumper> pitti: it is all default
[08:50] <thumper> psql says 32MB
[08:50] <thumper> but it seems to be asking for a lot more
[08:50] <pitti> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/kernel-resources.html
[08:51] <thumper> pitti: I'd expect a default install of postgresql to at least start without tweaking kernel memory
[08:52]  * thumper pokes
[08:52] <pitti> thumper: I haven't seen that problem in a while, though; we got lots of dupes on bug 264336
[08:52] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 264336 in postgresql-8.4 (Ubuntu) "pgsql fails to start due to shared buffer setting greater than kernel allows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264336
[08:52] <pitti> thumper: yes, indeed
[08:53] <pitti> thumper: and that does work here
[08:53] <pitti> thumper: perhaps something else on your system is using shared memory already?
[08:53] <pitti> (I'm not really familiar how this works, if it's per-user or per-process or global)
[08:53] <lifeless> thumper: you don't have an ex-LP dev environment around :)
[08:53] <thumper> lifeless: not on this machine
[08:54] <thumper> pitti: the error from psql says Failed system call was shmget(key=5432001, size=41263104, 03600).
[08:54] <thumper> now 41263104 is bigger than the default of 33554432
[08:54] <thumper> not sure why it is asking for more than the specified 32MB though
[08:54]  * thumper tweaks to 64MB system
[08:55] <thumper> pitti: so I doubled my value using $ sudo sysctl -w kernel.shmmax=67108864
[08:55] <thumper> and postgresql starts now
[08:56] <thumper> this sysctl thing, do I have to set that every time I reboot?
[08:57] <pitti> thumper: for me, /proc/sysvipc/shm says that postgresql is using 32399360 bytes
[08:57] <pitti> thumper: no, you can tweak /etc/sysctl.d/30-postgresql-shm.conf
[08:58] <pitti> thumper: same key btw, that seems to be a constant (port number and 0001)
[08:59] <pitti> that's with the default max_connections = 100
[08:59] <pitti> I'm on 64 bit, that might make some difference?
[08:59] <pitti> although I'd expect 64 bit arch to use more memory, if it's different at all
[09:02]  * thumper is on a 64bit machine
[09:02] <thumper> I don't get why it is doing this...
[09:07] <seb128> hey desktopers
[09:07] <Laney> hey
[09:08]  * Daviey sulks off, feeling most unwelcome.. grunting to himself.
[09:09] <didrocks> hey *serverers* :)
[09:09] <Laney> Daviey lives to serve
[09:09] <pitti> Daviey: hush hush, back to your play room :)
[09:09]  * Daviey creates a rain Cloud over you miserable gits. :)
[09:09] <didrocks> ahah
[09:10] <didrocks> oh it worked!
[09:10]  * didrocks blames Daviey
[09:10]  * pitti installs gnome-shell and crawls under it to protect himself
[09:11] <seb128> hey Laney didrocks pitti
[09:11] <seb128> pitti, ton unity est cassé ?
[09:12] <Daviey> don't underestimated the power of the juju
[09:12] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ça va?
[09:12] <seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
[09:12] <pitti> seb128: non, mais unity ne protège pas contre la pluie
[09:12] <seb128> hehe
[09:13] <pitti> seb128: as there is no gnome-sun nor gnome-umbrella, that seemed like the next best thing
[09:13] <seb128> indeed
[09:14] <pitti> so a mini-UDS next week, that sounds quite rushed to me
[09:14] <pitti> we still have plenty of WIs, and no prep, etc.
[09:18] <seb128> pitti, yeah, seems like at the same time we can't affort to not make changes
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: yes, we should certainly revisit our remaining WIs, no argument ther
[09:19] <pitti> but next week still seems a bit rushed to me
[09:19] <BigWhale> Greetings all.
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, well, it's either next week or a month later, missing a month would be an issue as well
[09:23] <seb128> but yeah, it's rushed
[09:24] <seb128> well, let's see
[09:25] <seb128> I'm not deciding on the schedule, apparently that's what best suited with calendars, etc
[09:25] <seb128> it matches feature freeze as well
[09:27] <ogra_> pitti, dunno about yours, but my woerkitems are targetd for 13.04 not for next week :)
[09:27]  * ogra_ glares at his fingers .... geez, type what i think,. damned ...
[09:28] <didrocks> ogra_: you need regression tests for your fingers :)
[09:28] <ogra_> LOL
[09:29] <pitti> ogra_: sure, that's what I meant with "certainly good to review them now"
[09:30] <ogra_> i would actually expect the 1304 targets to persist as they are and to get new WIs from the UDS sessions in new specs that run on a shorter schedule
[09:30] <ogra_> (until next UDS ... which again is 13.04 timeframe)
[10:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[10:40] <xnox> my mate couldn't login today & had to purge .config/dconf to have compiz start. New / guest accounts still worked. I haven't heard anything like this yet, so it could be a user error.
[10:41] <Laney> doubt we can do much without logs
[10:41] <seb128> xnox, I've the same issue, it's a problem with libcompizconfig somewhere
[10:41] <seb128> being discussing it on #ubuntu-unity
[10:41] <seb128> sil2100 is looking at it
[10:41] <seb128> sil2100, ^ not only me
[10:42] <seb128> being discussed*
[10:42] <seb128> xnox, downgrading the lib without wipping the config works, I still have the buggy system so I can provide infos
[10:43] <sil2100> xnox: hm!
[10:43] <sil2100> xnox: good to know, the dconf purge is a good pointer, thanks
[10:44] <xnox> sil2100: well back it up / revert settings to default.
[10:44] <seb128> xnox, so only purging the dconf config was enough?
[10:44] <xnox> seb128: i believe that's what he said.
[10:44] <seb128> xnox, e.g no change to compiz's config?
 rm -rf .config/dconf helpe
[10:45] <xnox> d
[10:45] <xnox> that's fairly obvious =) if he did do something else, it didn't help.
[11:02] <seb128> xnox, can you friend go back in a broken state to get debug infos?
[11:04] <xnox> seb128: what do you want to find out / collect?
[11:05] <seb128> xnox, from a buggy session:
[11:05] <seb128> dconf read /org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/active-plugins
[11:05] <seb128> dconf read /org/compiz/current-profile
[11:05] <seb128> and the content of
[11:05] <seb128> .config/compiz-1/compizconfig/done_upgrades
[11:23] <xnox> seb128: not reproducible any more. sorry.
[11:23] <seb128> xnox, no worry, same for me ...
[11:31] <seb128> sil2100, ^ btw, xnox's friend can't reproduce either, so maybe a config upgrade thing
[11:31] <seb128> Laney, what happened to the "jbicha will handle the cogl transition"? ;-)
[11:32] <Laney> he couldn't do the main sources so pinged me to upload those :P
[11:32] <seb128> oh, right
[11:32] <sil2100> seb128, xnox: probably, but still it needs investigation which exactly case causes the failure and because of what
[11:32] <seb128> yeah
[11:32] <xnox> well I didn't upgrade recently.
[11:32] <xnox> What's the cuplrit's version number? I might be the next victim.
[11:32] <seb128> xnox, maybe you will get the issue once you upgrade
[11:33] <seb128> xnox, 1:0.9.9~daily13.02.26-0ubuntu1
[11:33] <seb128> xnox, uploaded yesterday afternoon/evening
[11:33] <xnox> yeap, offered to upgrade to that.
[11:33] <sil2100> xnox: what compiz version do you have installed currently?
[11:34]  * Laney tries
[11:34] <sil2100> 19.1?
[11:34] <Laney> I didn't get the bug in my VM though
[11:34] <xnox> 1:0.9.9~daily13.02.19-0ubuntu1
[11:34] <xnox> is my current one.
[11:34] <sil2100> hm, ok
[11:36] <Laney> no bug here
[11:36] <seb128> :-(
[11:37] <Laney> i see 01/02/03 in the done_upgrades file
[11:37] <sil2100> I'll check again the upgrade code, maybe there is some race condition there
[11:48] <popey> hmm, just updated and am getting "The disk drive for /tmp is not ready yet or not present" which is somewhat alarming and odd...
[11:48]  * popey wonders if it's taking a long time rm'ing what was in there before I rebooted... (there was a compiled kernel)
[11:48] <ogra_> get a new disk !
[11:48] <popey> yup! looks like it
[11:48] <popey> It's an SSD!
[11:49] <popey> Phew, finished, that was scary..
[11:50] <Laney> I'm glad to see that I joined the Mozilla Test Pilot Team!
[11:51]  * popey gives Laney wings
[11:55] <davmor2> popey: give Laney a redbull it'll give him wings and he'll be far more awake too ;)
[11:55] <Laney> eww
[11:58] <ogra_> but put him on a leash first
[12:00] <GunnarHj> Laney: Can you possibly merge the im-config branch at bug 1101836 before drinking that red bull? ;-)
[12:00] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1101836 in im-config (Ubuntu Raring) "Needs to keep hands off when removed but not purged" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1101836
[12:00] <ritz> cyphermox ping
[12:03] <Laney> GunnarHj: yeah, will do today
[12:03] <GunnarHj> Laney: Great, tnx.
[12:04] <Laney> thank you
[12:04] <Laney> hoping Quintasan does the im-config-fu for maliit soon
[12:04] <Laney> ;-)
[12:04] <Laney> then I can forget about this im-* :P
[12:06] <GunnarHj> Laney: Thought you were studying Chinese now.
[12:06] <Laney> nah, forgotten that already ;-)
[12:06] <GunnarHj> :)
[12:07] <Laney> (somehow I suspect it'll come back up again ...)
[12:08] <Laney> wow my battery is at 104%!
[12:08] <vibhav> Whoa
[12:08] <pitti> after overclocking now overcharging?
[12:10] <Laney> \o/
[12:21] <Laney> GunnarHj: Alright, I'm going to upload that
[12:22] <GunnarHj> Laney: The code isn't optimal, but it does the right thing for us.
[12:22] <Laney> I hope osamu can be convinced to get rid of that code, but I buy your argument
[12:23] <GunnarHj> Laney: It was your idea in the first place, and it was indeed the way to go.
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> sigh @ bug 1132962
[13:45] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1132962 in tomboy "GConf is deprecated" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132962
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> i wish this guy would stop doing this
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> "lets report a vaguely similar bug against a bazillion completely unrelated packages"
[13:52] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: +1
[13:53] <Sweetshark> seb128: could you sync libcmis 0.3.1-1 over our 0.3.0-1~ubuntu2 prerelease?
[13:53] <desrt> chrisccoulson: meh.  i don't mind tracking bugs
[13:54] <desrt> seb128: hey
[13:54]  * Sweetshark offers chrisccoulson a bite of bug 1034928 ...
[13:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1034928 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Quantal) "Fontconfig warning: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not works as expected" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034928
[13:54] <chrisccoulson> desrt, the problem is, launchpad doesn't really have a concept of tracking bugs. creating a single bug assigned to dozens of unrelated packages creates a lot of email spam for packages that developers don't care about :/
[13:55] <desrt> ya.  true.
[13:55] <desrt> was just thinking this...
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> desrt, see bug 1030022 also ;)
[13:55] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1030022 in spectrwm (Ubuntu) "Port from legacy Xlib to to modern XCB" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030022
[13:55] <desrt> seb128: did some testing about timedated vs. systemd yesterday
[13:55] <desrt> chrisccoulson: well that's just bullshit :)
[13:55] <chrisccoulson> yeah
[13:56] <desrt> gtk has no plans to do this, for example...
[13:58] <Sweetshark> win 4
[14:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did he do it on other bugs as well?
[14:00] <seb128> desrt, hey
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, bug 888662 too
[14:00] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 888662 in xxxterm (Ubuntu) "Web browsers should share the cache" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888662
[14:00] <seb128> desrt, did you ask lennart about the "run helpers without the init system"?
[14:00] <desrt> seb128: he didn't ping back
[14:01] <desrt> seb128: in this case, the init system is really needed by the helper
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128, and bug 891793. he has form ;)
[14:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 891793 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Login with USB key or smart card" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891793
[14:01] <desrt> but we can work around it rather easily...
[14:01] <desrt> seb128: this is needed to support the "sync date/time with NTP" switch in the  UI
[14:01] <desrt> timedated tries to ask systemd "is ntp running?" and then "start ntp" and "stop ntp"
[14:02] <desrt> i wrote a very small dummy service yesterday claiming to be systemd and answering questions about NTP.  that was enough to get it working.
[14:02] <desrt> i consider today adding support for actually doing the request on upstart
[14:02] <desrt> ie: timedated will think that it is asking systemd to start NTP but really upstart will do it
[14:02] <seb128> sounds good
[14:03] <desrt> the rest of the functionality is fine
[14:03] <desrt> changing timezones, etc.
[14:03] <desrt> all works
[14:03] <seb128> desrt, maybe move to #ubuntu-devel so slangasek can read it
[14:03]  * desrt doesn't want to type all that again :p
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> oh wow, link failure:
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/132499511/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.firefox_21.0~a2~hg20130226r128460-0ubuntu1~umd1~precise_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> collect2: ld terminated with signal 9 [Killed]
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> getting too big for i386, i wonder? ;)
[14:04] <ogra_> who cares as long as it builds on arm
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, yeah, it builds fine on arm
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> it's a shame that chromium doesn't :P
[14:05] <ogra_> i know, just teasing :)
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> heh
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> actually, chromium is building here. it just doesn't work
[14:05] <desrt> seb128: okay.  i pastebinned it to him :)
[14:05] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[14:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, went into clean/rent mode on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cinnamon/+bug/1132962 ;-)
[14:13] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1132962 in tomboy "GConf is deprecated" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks :)
[14:14] <seb128> yw
[14:18] <mdeslaur> seb128: we don't use ntp on ubuntu...wouldn't it make more sense to simply get rid of that checkbox?
[14:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, good point, we have ntpdate though
[14:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: yes, and it's automatically run, no checkbox needed
[14:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, is it?
[14:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, our current ui has "automatically sync time" or "manual"
[14:19] <mdeslaur> seb128: it's in the network ifup scripts...every time you up a network interface, it resyncs the date
[14:20] <seb128> mdeslaur, what is the option doing then?
[14:20] <mdeslaur> seb128: uh...nothing? :)
[14:20] <seb128> why do we have it then?
[14:20] <mdeslaur> I don't know, hehe :P
[14:20] <mdeslaur> I think that needs some investigation :P
[14:21] <mdeslaur> seb128: maybe the switch turns it on/off in /etc/default/ntpdate...let me check
[14:21] <ogra_> yay
[14:22] <ogra_> ++ fro dropping the silly ntp option
[14:22] <kenvandine> +1
[14:22] <seb128>  g_dbus_proxy_call (self->priv->proxy, "SetUsingNtp", g_variant_new ("(b)", active),
[14:22] <seb128>                      G_DBUS_CALL_FLAGS_NONE, -1, NULL, dbus_set_answered, "using_ntp");
[14:22] <ogra_> ntpdate syncs the clock on every network connect anyway
[14:23] <kenvandine> ogra_, does it for static interfaces?
[14:23] <ogra_> (it lives in /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate since several years)
[14:23]  * kenvandine doesn't actually know if network-manager does anything for those
[14:23] <ogra_> kenvandine, for all but loopback
[14:23] <kenvandine> ok
[14:23] <ogra_> no matter if  NM or /etc/network/interfaces, both run if-up.d scripts afaik
[14:24] <kenvandine> makes sense
[14:25] <seb128> ogra_, so if you run your system for years without reconnecting your clock is free to drift?
[14:25] <Sweetshark> seb128: disregard the 0.3.0 sync request -- we need 0.3.1 anyway for the next libreoffice upload once that is there ...
[14:25] <ogra_> yeah
[14:25] <ogra_> thats the one disadvantage
[14:25] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, sorry, I was in a call when you pinged, didn't catch up yet
[14:25] <ogra_> but given that we have people like mdeslaur your kernel security updates will force you to reboot at some point
[14:25] <seb128> Sweetshark, you asked me to sync 03.1-1 no?
[14:25] <ogra_> ;)
[14:26] <mdeslaur> seb128: have you ever noticed before? :P
[14:26] <Sweetshark> seb128: If you would sync 0.3.1-1, that would be nice. I originally asked for 0.3.0-1, which wouldnt help ..
[14:26] <kenvandine> ogra_, and for a desktop... how likely are you to not have your ethernet unplugged from time to time?
[14:27] <kenvandine> different for the server of course
[14:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, <Sweetshark> seb128: could you sync libcmis 0.3.1-1 over our 0.3.0-1~ubuntu2 prerelease?
[14:27] <ogra_> servers should use ntpd
[14:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, you asked for 0.3.1-1?
[14:27] <Sweetshark> seb128: Yes, I need 0.3.1-1
[14:27] <seb128> ogra_, mdeslaur: do we sync on wifi connect? that seems to be broken on some of my boxes
[14:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, so all good
[14:28] <ogra_> seb128, we sync for all interfaces but lo
[14:28] <ogra_> if it doesnt work on a wifi card for you, thats surely a bug
[14:28] <seb128> ogra_, ok, dunno why it doesn't work for me
[14:29] <mdeslaur> it does seem to work if I set it to manual, so I think it is hooked up somewhere
[14:29] <seb128> desrt, we will need to drop the gnome-settings-daemon patch "revert_git_datetime_dropping.patch", at this point the dbus interface used by indicator-datetime will stop being available so we need to update indicator-datetime too
[14:35] <mdeslaur> ah, yes, that patch disables ntpdate
[14:35] <mdeslaur> so if ntp is installed, it uses that, else it disables/enables ntpdate
[14:36] <desrt> *ntpd
[14:36] <desrt> seems that the systemd approach has no ntpdate method
[14:37] <desrt> it just starts/stops ntpd
[14:39] <desrt> or something called chronyd
[14:39]  * desrt wonders what this is
[14:39] <desrt> seems to use that if ntp is not available
[14:40] <desrt> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Chrony
[14:40] <desrt> neat.
[14:42] <desrt> i wonder if maybe there is good reason to switch to using this instead
[14:42] <desrt> well, probably there is a lot of good reason.  i wonder if there's a reason not to do it, though
[14:42] <mdeslaur> memory footprint
[14:42] <desrt> ntpd is slimmer?
[14:43] <mdeslaur> ah, don't know, I just meant vs. ntpdate
[14:46] <desrt> chronyd seems to use ~260kB
[14:47] <desrt> on the power front, its main loop seems to wake up once every 60 seconds
[14:48] <desrt> each wakeup is a bit of network activity
[14:51] <mdeslaur> does chrony support authenticated ntp?
[14:51] <desrt> chronyd will probably use more power than ntpd -- it seems to be a bit more hyperactive about its job
[14:51] <desrt> mdeslaur: yes
[14:51] <desrt> at least i saw something about keys in the config file
[14:52] <desrt> or maybe not
[14:52] <desrt> that's an admin password
[14:52] <desrt> * advanced NTP features like Autokey authentication are not supported
[14:53] <desrt> here is the rationale behind fedora's change: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ChronyDefaultNTP
[14:54] <desrt> they did some rather detailed testing
[14:55] <desrt> interesting.  ntp uses more power.
[14:55] <desrt> of course, ntpdate is best of all :p
[14:55] <mdeslaur> hrm, autokey auth is a desired feature though, we've had a lot of requests for that
[14:56] <desrt> i wonder if we could kick upstream a little
[14:57] <mdeslaur> not a dealbreaker for now
[15:03] <chrisccoulson> jibel, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/47/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/ has been broken for a while now. any idea what's going on there?
[15:04] <jibel> chrisccoulson, looking
[15:29]  * Laney eyes the totem failure
[15:29]  * Laney eyes jbicha 
[15:30] <jbicha> Laney: yeah I'm not sure about that one
[15:30] <Laney> it seems to be installable here
[15:32] <Laney> ah component mismatch
[15:32] <Laney> libarchive13
[15:33] <Laney> how hasn't that been a problem for you in the libarchive transition?
[15:40] <jbicha> pitti: are you still around today?
[15:43] <jibel> chrisccoulson, so, the problem is that adt doesn't find the source package, which exists obviously. I restarted a test run to check if it's a timing issue, but I'm really not sure why this happens yet.
[15:44] <chrisccoulson> jibel, thanks
[15:44] <jbicha> or stgraber: what's next for the Ubuntu GNOME flavor proposal? does it need to be added to the agenda for Monday's meeting?
[15:48] <desrt> lulz.  people are talking to my systemd emulator
[15:48] <stgraber> jbicha: we typically automatically bring up any e-mail discussion to the meeting if it's not resolved by then
[16:02] <didrocks> pitti: do you mind putting some coal on launchpad builders trains for ido so that we can release?
[16:02] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331803
[16:02] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331804
[16:02] <didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331806
[16:02] <didrocks> (i386 already built successfully)
[16:02] <didrocks> cyphermox: ^
[16:04] <czajkowski> really need to remove launchpad from highlight
[16:06] <didrocks> :)
[16:11] <BigWhale> is there a 'dbus-explorer'?
[16:24] <pitti> jbicha: I'm back now
[16:24] <pitti> didrocks: shoveling
[16:24] <didrocks> \o/
[16:25]  * pitti wipes away sweat, done
[16:25]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[16:25]  * pitti tu donne une accolade en retour
[16:25] <didrocks> pitti: je pense que tu mérites une bonne douche :-)
[16:25] <jbicha> pitti: ok I think stgraber answered my question
[16:27] <pitti> didrocks: j'ai avoir une douche à ce soir :)
[16:27] <didrocks> héhé
[16:32] <stgraber> seb128: so do you have any feedback on upstart user sessions? I'm now looking at final testing before we release 1.7 upstream and land that stuff in the archive, so if you have any blocker, now would be the time ;)
[16:33] <seb128> stgraber, not behind the basic "it seems to work" feedback I had the other day, I can do extra testing tomorrow and give you an update then if you want to wait an extra day
[16:35]  * Laney is doing some testing now
[16:36] <stgraber> I'm happy to wait an extra day.
[16:37] <Laney> stgraber: you'd still have it as an opt-in session?
[16:38] <stgraber> Laney: no, my plan is to land it as the default session in the archive. Basically having a /etc/upstart-xsessions file listing the xsessions that work under upstart user session, with just "ubuntu" listed in there initially
[16:39] <Laney> ah, so sessions not listed in there would continue to be managed outside of upstart
[16:48] <desrt> seb128: the way we enable/disable ntp is some kind of hilarious nightmare
[16:53] <ogra_> desrt, just rip it out, stop discussing
[16:54] <desrt> ogra_: we have to replace it with something
[16:54] <ogra_> ??
[16:54] <ogra_> we use ntpdate by default since years
[16:54] <desrt> ogra_: the UI has a switch "enable NTP"
[16:54] <ogra_> that UI thing was always obsoloete
[16:54] <desrt> huh?
[16:54] <ogra_> desrt, right, remove it
[16:54] <desrt> not afaik?
[16:55] <ogra_> desrt, /etc/network/if-up.d/ntpdate is riun for every device except lo
[16:55] <desrt> ogra_: sometimes
[16:55] <ogra_> you dont need any UI option at all
[16:55] <desrt> ogra_: what if you don't want NTP?
[16:55] <ogra_> desrt, if thats true, thats a bug
[16:56] <desrt> ogra_: if you flick the switch, that script gets renamed to "ntpdate.disabled"
[16:56] <ogra_> desrt, you dont have much choice (since about 4 years)
[16:56] <desrt> ogra_: i'm reading the code now that calls "mv" on this file
[16:56] <mdeslaur>  ogra_: the check _did_ in fact disable ntpdate
[16:56] <jasoncwarner_> hey bryce seb128 and didrocks, can we delay meeting by about 10 minutes?
[16:56] <ogra_> mdeslaur, oh
[16:56] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: sure
[16:57] <ogra_> didnt it insist to actually install ntpd in the past ?
[16:57] <desrt> no...
[16:57] <desrt> although if ntpd is installed it will also deal with that
[16:57] <ogra_> i'm sure i have at least two machines where it forcefully installed ntpd
[16:57] <ogra_> though that was in gnome2
[16:58] <mdeslaur> it should gracefully handle ntpdate, which is the default, and people who have installed ntpd
[16:58] <desrt> it does this
[16:58] <desrt> 'gracefully', perhaps not :)
[16:58] <jasoncwarner_> bryce didrocks seb128 nm....good to go...
[16:59] <mdeslaur> yes, it currently does
[16:59] <desrt> it's a bunch of calls to 'mv' and 'update-rc.d'
[16:59] <ogra_> shudder
[16:59] <desrt> this is what i mean by 'hilarious nightmare'
[17:00] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, coming in a minute
[17:03] <mdeslaur> yeah, won't win any beauty contest :P
[17:19] <chrisccoulson> jibel, is there anything i can do to help get junit / autopkgtest working together (if it's possible). do you want me to work on that?
[17:23] <cyphermox> pitti: if you're still around, could you bump the ido build for armhf again please? :)
[17:24] <pitti> cyphermox: do you have the URL?
[17:24] <cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4331804
[17:25] <pitti> cyphermox: done
[17:30] <GunnarHj> Laney: still there?
[17:31] <Laney> yes
[17:31] <Laney> don't make me do anything that requires a working desktop session
[17:31] <Laney> :P
[17:31] <GunnarHj> Laney: Does that explain that you uploaded an old MP? ;-)
[17:32] <Laney> oh, whoops
[17:32] <Laney> what's the current one?
[17:32]  * Laney can do that from a terminal
[17:33] <GunnarHj> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/raring/im-config/version-0.20/+merge/150172
[17:33] <Laney> the branch would be better
[17:33]  * Laney assumes lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu/raring/im-config/version-0.20
[17:33] <GunnarHj> Laney: Yes, of course.
[17:34] <GunnarHj> Laney: Is it doable to exchange them?
[17:34] <Laney> sure
[17:34] <GunnarHj> Laney: Great.
[17:34] <Laney> might need to increase the version
[17:35] <GunnarHj> The proposed version is 0.21ubuntu1 already.
[17:35] <Laney> ah no, this is 0.21, sweet
[17:35]  * Laney eyes version-0.20 ...
[17:35] <GunnarHj> Laney: Forgot to change the branch name.
[17:36] <Laney> I'm sure I re-branched when I uploaded it today
[17:37] <desrt>  This package contains the NTP daemon and utility programs.
[17:37] <cyphermox> pitti: thanks!
[17:37] <desrt> uhm... no it doesn't
[17:38] <Quintasan> Laney: Yeah it's done
[17:38] <Laney> ♥
[17:38] <Quintasan> Unfortunately I was forgetful enough to send mail
[17:38] <Quintasan> I ACTUALLY configured ssmtp but forgot to use reportbug
[17:39] <Quintasan> how typical
[17:39] <Laney> where is it then?
[17:41] <Laney> GunnarHj: ok, there you go, sorry about that
[17:42] <Laney> I don't think the end result of those two postinsts is so different though
[17:42] <seb128> desrt, package coming from Debian that we splitted without changing the description?
[17:43] <GunnarHj> Laney: No, it's not different at all. The only advantage is that it's almost identical with the Debian postinst.
[17:43] <Laney> ack
[17:43] <GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for fixing it!
[17:44] <GunnarHj> Laney: Hoping to be able to start autosync soon.
[17:44] <desrt> seb128: no.  stupid mistake on my part
[17:45] <desrt> seb128: installing chrony resulted in ntp uninstalling, but because of the weird handling of /etc files, dpkg -L made it look like i still had the package installed
[17:45] <desrt> since there was still a bunch of files -- just not /usr/sbin/ntpd
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, I see
[17:45] <Quintasan> Laney: Can you change GTK_IM_MODULE=Maliit to GTK_IM_MODULE=meego-im in debian/xinput/maliit in maliit-framework and upload? According to upstream it will not work
[17:45] <seb128> desrt, what's the point of/motivation behind chrony?
[17:46] <Laney> seems to work for me
[17:46] <desrt> seb128: ntpd kinda assumes a constant connection to the network
[17:46] <Laney> Quintasan: but yeah, sure — tomorrow though
[17:46] <desrt> seb128: and also that waking up every second is a reasonable thing to do
[17:46] <desrt> ie: it's for servers
[17:46] <Quintasan> Laney: Wait, if it works for you then I will make sure upstream is REALLY sure it will not work
[17:46] <desrt> chrony uses less battery and is better suited to machines that have a network connection that comes and goes
[17:46] <desrt> also uses less memory (~1.5MB compared to 6)
[17:47] <Laney> I was getting the OSK, yeah
[17:47] <Laney> I might have borked my system in some special way though
[17:47] <desrt> it misses some ntpd features though like support for timeserver authentication and various hardware-based time devices
[17:47] <Laney> if that other thing works and upstream recommends it thenw we might as well goferit
[17:47] <seb128> desrt, why is it needed at all (compared to our approch of ntpdating on connect)?
[17:47] <desrt> seb128: it's not.  just investigating alternatives.
[17:47] <seb128> desrt, gotcha, thanks
[17:47] <desrt> fedora and arch recently switched to it
[17:48] <desrt> (and fwiw, i don't like our ntpdate approach)
[17:48] <seb128> desrt, please tell me it's not written in python ;-)
[17:48] <desrt> perl
[17:48] <seb128> ahah
[17:48] <desrt> shell
[17:48]  * seb128 looks at calendar
[17:48] <desrt> cobol!
[17:48] <seb128> not friday yet!
[17:48] <desrt> seb128: anyway...
[17:48] <desrt> i have my systemd faker thingy
[17:49] <desrt> and it's enough to allow timedated to start
[17:49] <desrt> and also to reliably report if ntpd is enabled (using more or less the same mechanism as g-s-d used to have)
[17:49] <desrt> and also enable/disable it
[17:49] <jibel> chrisccoulson, thanks, but it's blocking on me :/ I planned to finish this before my holidays which is end of this week.
[17:50] <jbicha> desrt: nice, I tried installing systemd-services but it didn't seem to be enough for timedated or hostnamed
[17:50] <seb128> desrt, did you read slangasek's concern that having a service "faking" systemd might trick into programs to think that dbus is available since it's on the bus?
[17:50] <desrt> seb128: yes.  already found one case of that, in fact
[17:50] <desrt> gnome-settings-daemon is asking about the 'virtualisation' propery
[17:51] <seb128> desrt, I wonder if we should rather patch datetimed to do something else if systemd is not on the bus
[17:51] <desrt> seb128: i considered this
[17:51] <desrt> but the 'something' is pretty gross in our case
[17:51] <desrt> i also think that maybe we should make this a general-purpose shim
[17:51] <desrt> ie: i want to add support for the virtualisation property next
[17:52] <seb128> desrt, hum, I would assume that the something would be to do a similar check on an interface we provide in upstart or somewhere else in our stack
[17:52] <desrt> seb128: you'd think.....
[17:52] <desrt> seb128: this was my first thought
[17:53] <desrt> turns out upstart doesn't know anything about ntp
[17:53] <desrt> it's all based on calls to update-rc.d and renaming files in /etc/network/if-up.d/
[17:53] <seb128> well, it's an init system, I guess it doesn't know about specific jobs
[17:53] <desrt> well
[17:53] <desrt> it knows about some things
[17:53] <desrt> but it looks like ntpd was never upstartified
[17:54] <desrt> and the ntpdate-on-ifup hack we have is probably not even upstartable
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> jibel, sure, no worries. just let me know if there's anything i can do :)
[17:54] <jibel> chrisccoulson, found the problem with failed tests. Some one fixed bug 621977
[17:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 621977 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "If deb-src lines are going to be added automatically, they shouldn't be enabled and slowing down apt-get update." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621977
[17:55] <chrisccoulson> jibel, aha
[17:55] <seb128> desrt, already, I trust you to come with something working in any case, good luck ;-)
[17:55] <Quintasan> Laney: <mikhas> that's news to me <mikhas> but if it works, all the better
[17:55] <Quintasan> Well
[17:55] <Quintasan> If it ain't broke then don't fix it
[17:56] <Laney> does it work for you?
[17:56] <desrt> seb128: let me paste you what i have
[17:56] <jibel> I'll fix that in auto-pacakge-testing
[17:57] <desrt> seb128: http://fpaste.org/ItL7/ more or less
[17:57] <desrt> seb128: this works now, already
[17:57] <desrt> obviously it's rough
[17:58] <desrt> i guess we will want a new package for this...
[17:58] <Quintasan> Laney: I did not test it after the update
[17:58] <Quintasan> Laney: Let me try it.
[17:58] <desrt> probably also we will want some kind of security because right now all of the requests are utterly unauthenticated
[17:58] <Laney> Quintasan: OK, and feel free to upload any fixes yourself
[17:59] <Laney> I'll sync it all back to Debian once NEW thaws a bit
[17:59] <seb128> desrt, great, it's a bit hackish, but it does the job (and I've no better suggestion)
[17:59] <Quintasan> Laney: Mmmkay, so I'll ping you once I'm done brea...err...fixing the package :)
[17:59] <seb128> desrt, I'm still a bit concerned about stuff being tricked by "systemd" being on the bus, but let's see how that goes
[17:59] <Laney> Quintasan: FYI I was told that im-config stuff should be kept in im-config itself
[17:59] <Laney> so you do want a Debian bug report there
[18:00] <Quintasan> I just did, now I'm waiting for the maintainer to tell me if those config files are actually good
[18:00] <Laney> cool
[18:41] <seb128> desrt,
[18:41] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/gdk-pixbuf/2.27.1-1ubuntu1
[18:41] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/3002628/+listing-archive-extra
[18:41] <seb128> desrt, getting closer ;-)
[19:09] <desrt> seb128: nice :)
[20:14] <ricotz> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/933641
[20:14] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 933641 in gtk+3.0 "Enable broadway (HTML5) backend" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[20:15] <seb128> ricotz, what about it?
[20:15] <ricotz> seb128, hi, it is already enable in the gnome3-staging
[20:15] <ricotz> and would be nice to have it enabled in the archive too
[20:15] <seb128> ricotz, you are welcome to file a merge request with the change if you want to see it in Ubuntu ;-)
[20:16] <ricotz> seb128, ok, i actually hoped you would look at the ppa too ;)
[20:16] <seb128> well, I might but I'm very busy, so it might take a while
[20:17] <seb128> having a merge request would increase your chances to get a review ;-)
[20:17] <ricotz> seb128, hmm, that is kind of the reason of the ppa, so don't let it go to waste by ignoring it :\
[20:18] <seb128> GNOME doesn't look at our package to see what patches we have if we don't submit them
[20:18] <seb128> Debian sometime do but mostly don't
[20:18] <seb128> usually it's good taste for "downstream/derivative" work to file merge requests/send patches to their upstream
[20:19] <ricotz> i guess i need to do some patch then
[20:19] <seb128> especially that you tend to not do a great job in documenting the changes in your changelog
[20:19] <seb128> so it requires detective work to understand the changesets
[20:19] <seb128> like why you commented patches
[20:19] <seb128> is that because they don't apply
[20:19] <ricotz> seb128, this is the gnome3-staging ppa so all changes are documented
[20:19] <seb128> or because you didn't want to update them
[20:20] <seb128> like your gtk update commented the "turn off a11y when exiting mainloop" change
[20:20] <seb128> no they are not
[20:20] <seb128> did you comment that gtk patch because it was hard to update? or because it's not needed?
[20:20] <seb128> the changelog doesn't say
[20:20] <ricotz> hmm, i see, sorry i don't recall
[20:21] <seb128> ricotz, no worry, it just makes hard to "grab from the ppa"
[20:21] <ricotz> anyhow this shows you had a look and should have stumbled over the broadway bug
[20:22] <seb128> well, I have a look and determine if the work to figure out what you did is higher than the work to do it again
[20:22] <seb128> in the gtk case they got the update in experimental so I used that as a start point instead
[20:22] <ricotz> ok, nevermind then
[20:23] <seb128> I still think you should use a vcs at least for your work
[20:23] <seb128> e.g in the pango case it would have been useful
[20:23] <seb128> but by the time we looked at it you had your work thrown away and we couldn't useit
[20:23] <ricotz> i have a bzr branch here, but unfortunately i am not committing every single change
[20:23] <Laney> if you work within our processes then there's a chance one day you can get upload rights directly
[20:24] <ricotz> it is not like i never proposed merges
[20:25] <ricotz> unfortunately they werent reviewed for some reason
[20:25] <seb128> keep doing it, we might not be perfect but we appreciate when you do
[20:26] <seb128> if you ping on the channel with a merge request we will review it for sure
[20:26] <seb128> sorry if some got screwed in the past
[20:26] <ricotz> seb128, ok, current there is not much to propose while 3.8 won't make it in to raring
[20:27] <ricotz> and those occasional fixes are mostly not maintained in a vcs
[20:27] <seb128> ricotz, we will probably get some of 3.8, at least apps, soon
[20:27] <ricotz> e.g harfbuzz ;)
[20:27] <seb128> ricotz, you should talk to jbicha, he found a way to get back the work he's doing in the archive in an efficient way ;-)
[20:28] <seb128> it's still on my todolist
[20:28] <ricotz> ok
[20:28] <seb128> I just don't like to jump on new version, giving a bit of time for outside to find issues if there is any :p
[20:29] <ricotz> i see, but getting reports of bugs which might be already fixed, seems not useful ;)
[20:30] <seb128> yeah, it's a balance between bugs and regressions ;-)
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> qengho, you'll be pleased to know, i've massively slowed down the chromium build here ;)
[20:30] <seb128> you know that the bugs you have are not stoppers
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> (by turning on debug symbols)
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> :)
[20:30] <ricotz> seb128, ok
[20:32] <jbicha> ricotz: we could revive the gnome3 bzr branches
[20:33] <ricotz> jbicha, yeah, maybe
[20:41] <qengho> chrisccoulson: oh, good.  That is a relief.  It was just too speedy.
[20:42] <doomlord> can ubuntu's windowmanager respond to laptop 2-finger gestures on the window desktop & window titlebars - eg bind 2 finger-trackpad-drag on desktop to desktop-switching/expo, or bind 2finger-trackpad-drag on titlebar to lower-window
[21:23] <qengho> modprobe SEGV. That's encouraging.