[00:34] <Azelphur> what's that open source alternative to dropbox?
[00:35] <dutchie> spideroak?
[00:35] <dutchie> sparkleshare?
[00:35] <Azelphur> one of those two :P
[00:37] <dutchie> :P
[00:42] <shauno> I setup spideroak because it had the popey seal of aproval.  and then never touched it again
[00:44] <Azelphur> haha
[00:58] <shauno> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2539600212.png  and this is why we use the internet at 1am :)
[01:11] <popey> i dropped spideroak because it was way too cumbersome
[06:04] <rml_home> ning
[08:16] <diplo> Morning all
[08:59] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:14] <BigRedS> Good Morning!
[09:15] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[10:50] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:56] <einonm> Morning
[10:57] <brobostigon> morning einonm
[11:12] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:14] <czajkowski> davmor2: GOOOOOOOOO MORNING
[11:15] <czajkowski> anoyone else noticed he's stopped picking on me now that he has to deal with me 24/7 at work :)
[11:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: I think you have watched too much cadbury cream egg adverts
[11:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: wait till thursday I'm saving up all the abuse till then :P
[11:16] <czajkowski> oh joy!
[11:16] <czajkowski> Laney: popey we're in the office next thursday if yer about
[11:16] <popey> ooh
[11:17] <SuperMatt> I've been to the southwark office... it's eerily quiet in there
[11:18] <Laney> fraid not
[11:18] <Laney> especially now that i have to pay full price(!) for trains
[11:19] <czajkowski> Laney: welcome to adult world
[11:20] <directhex> bah
[11:20] <directhex> bloody kids
[11:20] <directhex> get off my lawn
[11:20] <davmor2> directhex: you shake you walking stick at him when you do that
[11:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: hiding behind people won't protect you from the on coming storm ;)
[11:21] <Laney> czajkowski: I DON'T LIKE IT LET ME GO BACK
[11:21] <Laney> The place where I used to make dens and go exploring as a kid is now a new build estate >:(
[11:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: you boo'd me I believe
[11:26] <popey> i just made a pirate map for sam
[11:26] <popey> i am going to hide his coins in the garden
[11:27] <czajkowski> can we clone sam
[11:28] <popey> heh
[11:28] <popey> he's started swimming
[11:28] <popey> its so cute, and gets me out of the house for an hour
[11:28] <dwatkins> those coins are an awesome idea, popey
[11:28] <popey> yeah, they are fun
[11:29] <czajkowski> whoo 15 tickets left
[11:29] <czajkowski> and just sent a reminder out, now lets hope 55 people don't just cancel
[11:56] <Azelphur> just set solicitors on my landlord. xD
[11:56] <czajkowski> why ?
[11:57] <Azelphur> a list of disrepair as long as my arm
[12:22] <davmor2> popey: you may hate covers but come on a £10 is way cheaper than £122
[12:23] <davmor2> get over your case fears already ;)
[12:32] <ali1234> directhex: amusingly enough light-themes not only are poorly thought out, they also don't follow the theme spec and rely on bugs in metacity to even work - bugs which have been fixed in mutter.
[12:33] <ali1234> actually that might be the same thing BigRedS reported
[12:38] <ali1234> actually tbh i still think radiance is the best theme
[12:38] <ali1234> when it works properly
[12:44] <popey> davmor2: it's not a fear of cases, I just don't like holding phones which have covers. the bumpers are less crap than a full cover imo
[12:45] <popey> but I quite like the feel of an iphone 4s for example, the glass and metal feels nice in the hands
[12:45] <popey> the n4 is unweildly large for my hands. i may look at a bumper for it
[12:48] <directhex> ali1234, yeah, no comment on the quality of those
[12:54] <ali1234> BigRedS: how do i make guake work?
[12:55] <dwatkins> hooray, resetting my BIOS has stopped my Ubuntu machine from crashing when encoding video :D
[12:56] <dwatkins> Now I can continue to put my blu-rays onto my NAS
[12:56] <BigRedS> ali1234: what do you want it to do? Install it, run it
[12:56] <BigRedS> I think by default it drops down with F11
[12:58]  * dwatkins notes that guake.org isn't very forthcoming about this
[12:58] <BigRedS> Ah, that's where it was handy that for bloody ages unity opened up guake-config when asked for guake
[12:58] <dwatkins> haha wow, neither is its manpage
[13:00] <ali1234> BigRedS: installed it, ran it, nothing happened
[13:00] <ali1234> ran it from terminal and it crashed: gio.Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.Notifications.MaxNotificationsExceeded: Exceeded maximum number of notifications
[13:00] <BigRedS> Ah, maybe F12 makes it drop-down. F11 is full-screen
[13:01] <ali1234> nope, nothing
[13:01] <BigRedS> I've been copying my ~ round for so long that I've not seen its default in ages now
[13:01] <BigRedS> does guake-prefs do anything?
[13:01] <BigRedS> that should give you the preferences window
[13:01] <ali1234> yes
[13:01] <ali1234> it says F12
[13:01] <BigRedS> Oh
[13:02] <dwatkins> I tend to just fullscreen my terminal with F11 or just ctrl+alt+F1 if I'm feeling nostalgic ;)
[13:02] <BigRedS> strange. That bit always worked...
[13:02] <ali1234> well, i don't know. but try hacking the theme
[13:03] <directhex> tilde!
[13:03] <BigRedS> Well, I'm on Debian now where the theme works :)
[13:04] <popey> guake works here on raring
[13:04] <BigRedS> I figure I should be able to just copy the debian default across and that'll Just Work? I really don'tfancy my chances at guessing a workable theme...
[13:04] <ali1234> but what about the theme popey? :)
[13:05] <BigRedS> I've tried messing with what my UI looks like before and I've never managed a net improvement
[13:05] <ali1234> the gtk3 bug actually affects quite a lot of themes
[13:05] <ali1234> or rather, the failure of theme developers to make themes that follow the spec
[13:05] <BigRedS> this is adwaita which seems workable
[13:05] <ali1234> most of the real bugs are in metacity
[13:06] <ali1234> yeah that is the gnome default theme... so it works properly
[13:06] <ali1234> it's about the only one
[13:06] <BigRedS> ahh
[13:07] <BigRedS> Should it be present in a gnome-shell install on Ubuntu? I don't think it was but I'm not convinced I looked...
[13:07] <ali1234> yes
[13:07] <popey> yeah, the theme is busted
[13:07] <BigRedS> I think I was looking for a reference to 'light-themes' in a config and didn't find any, so probably skipped one called 'radiance' or whatever
[13:07] <ali1234> BigRedS: gnome-tweak-tool
[13:07] <BigRedS> yeah
[13:07] <ali1234> yeah ambiance and radiance
[13:08] <ali1234> first is the dark one second is the light one
[13:08] <BigRedS> but I think when the bug got reassigned to 'light-themes' I assumed that was the theme, so wanted to find something that had set a theme to 'light'
[13:08] <ali1234> i don't know why they are called light themes only one of them is light coloured and neither is light on memory and cpu
[13:09] <popey> "Ubuntu Light" was a thing
[13:09] <popey> probably came from that
[13:16] <ali1234> installed it in virtualbox
[13:18] <ali1234> actually now i think about it it isn't related to the metacity theme stuff, because that's a separate theme
[13:22] <dwatkins> as opposed to lubuntu and xubuntu...
[13:22] <dwatkins> ...and jolicloud and others
[16:05] <redtape-renegade> Hi AlanBell ; I have a private question .. So I will PM you & I'll be finished asking in 10 minutes .. Ok ??
[16:09]  * BigRedS is intrigued now
[16:21] <BigRedS> doing an apt-get update I get a 404 for http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-i386/Packages
[16:21] <BigRedS> why isn't it looking for Packages.gz or Packages.bz2?
[16:25] <Azelphur> does royal mail special delivery have a cut off time? :P
[16:26] <Azelphur> for next day delivery, I mean
[16:26] <czajkowski> EOD
[16:26] <czajkowski> ?
[16:26] <Azelphur> end of day works
[16:26] <BigRedS> Oh, not bomb disposal?
[16:28] <Laney> 1pm
[16:28] <Laney> or you can pay more for 9am
[16:29] <Laney> or do you mean for sending?!?!?!
[16:30] <czajkowski> Laney: is bendy and all that but not sure we could fit him in a post box
[16:30] <czajkowski> but it is worth trying
[16:30]  * Laney remembers http://youtu.be/Pk8w4vMgBZ4
[16:32] <czajkowski> folks may be interested in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
[16:37] <ali1234> "Due to Daily Quality efforts, the development release is now usable every day" lol
[16:37] <ali1234> if only that were actually true
[16:38] <ali1234> this is another good one "Take a monthly snapshot of the development release, which we support only until the next snapshot"
[16:38] <ali1234> considering that getting bugs fixed in ubuntu currently takes about 2 years
[16:38] <ali1234> i can only assume that this basically means "don't support it at all"
[16:44] <BigRedS> hahaha, I tried 13.04 for a bit
[16:46] <ali1234> i think the main motivation behind this is they are running out of letters and obscure animals
[16:47] <BigRedS> I've basically spent today dealing with broken ubuntus. I'm essentially in favour of anything that makes Ubuntu more Debian right now
[16:47] <BigRedS> though I'm not sure how Ubuntu's development process would deal with "release it when it's ready"
[16:48] <yarinse> Where konversation keeps the configurations? In which folder?
[16:48] <ali1234> i do think it's a good idea not to support interim releases for 2 years
[16:49] <ali1234> but monthly dev snapshots is not useful at all
[16:50] <ali1234> there is simply zero chance of anything getting fixed in that time, so you may as well just stay on the latest development version at all times and pray it works
[16:50] <BigRedS> No, just ship fixes when they happen
[16:51] <ali1234> i would prefer a 6 month interim release as now, but supported for only 6 months
[16:51] <BigRedS> well, stuff's already not getting fixed in six-month snapshot releases
[16:54] <ali1234> 6 months is about how long it takes before ubuntu needs a reinstall
[16:55] <BigRedS> I've had installs last way longer than that, quite happily
[16:55] <ali1234> on servers or machines you don't use much
[16:55] <ali1234> like my mythtv server is quite happy on LTS releases
[16:55] <BigRedS> nah, I think my home pc is four or five releases old
[16:55] <ali1234> on development workstation i install so much stuff, most of which is not packaged, that it eventually just crumbles
[16:56] <BigRedS> I hardly use it now, but I was using it a fair but intil a bit before christmas
[16:56] <BigRedS> ah, yeah, but I don't use Ubuntu on that sort of machine
[16:57] <BigRedS> It's too hard to work out what all the side-effects of doing something the 'wrong' way will be
[16:57] <ali1234> i don't worry about it and just reinstall every 6 months
[16:57] <ali1234> upgrade never works properly anyway
[16:58] <ali1234> the few times i tried it i ended up reinstalling within 1 month
[16:58] <BigRedS> You say that, I've still only managed to break inter-release upgrades in Debian
[16:58] <BigRedS> and that was Etch/sarge days
[16:58] <ali1234> so if this plan goes down i'll have a choice between a system that works for 6 months and then is broken for 18 months (LTS releases)
[16:59] <ali1234> or fully reinstalling every month
[16:59] <ali1234> or a system that never works properly ever again
[16:59] <BigRedS> what breaks on a dist-upgrade? or a do-release-upgrade if we want to be all modern and ubuntuy?
[16:59] <BigRedS> That's one thing that, ime, *always* works
[16:59] <ali1234> configuration files mainly
[17:00] <BigRedS> ah yeah, we do still need an elegant way of dealing with those
[17:00] <ali1234> also last time i upgraded i ended up with a situation where apt wanted to both install and remove java
[17:00] <BigRedS> that sounds very aptitude
[17:01] <BigRedS> it's like apt's younger, drunker, stupid brother
[17:01] <ali1234> i have never used aptitude, this was update-manager
[17:01] <BigRedS> oh, I've never used that
[17:01] <BigRedS> I guess that's apt-get in the background?
[17:01] <ali1234> i only ever use official ubuntu methods when possible
[17:01] <ali1234> sort of. it also has some own rules for resolving dependencies
[17:02] <BigRedS> yeah, I try to but some habits die hard
[17:02] <ali1234> i have never used debian. i tried once. i couldn't even manage to install it
[17:02] <ali1234> installer just bombed out with package dependency errors
[17:03] <BigRedS> when was that? I think I started using debian 'cause it was the first distro I could get the installer to work on
[17:03] <ali1234> about 2006
[17:04] <ali1234> i ended up installing gentoo instead, because the instructions actually worked
[17:04] <BigRedS> sarge/etchish, yeah that was a bit after I started using it
[17:05] <ali1234> debian is about the only major distro i've never been able to even install
[17:05] <ali1234> even suse was easier to install... it went rapidly downhill from there though
[17:06] <ali1234> another proble i hit with debian is the installer would pop up loads of debconf windows and ask me for obscure information
[17:06] <ali1234> like "please type in your BIND configuration from scratch in this editor window now LOL"
[17:06] <BigRedS> haha, yeah suse was great until you had to do something with yast and it broke everything
[17:06] <ali1234> in the middle of the installer
[17:07] <BigRedS> I think I just entered nothing for any question I didn't understand, and got a roughly workable system at the end of it
[17:07] <ali1234> yeah that's what i tried... it didn't work
[17:08] <ali1234> actually you know
[17:08] <ali1234> i think this monthly snapshot idea is good
[17:08] <BigRedS> hm, fair enough. I'm still a bit surprised Debian haven't stolen the ubuntu installer
[17:09] <BigRedS> d-i's not *bad* IME, but it's really poor in graphical mode. You can see it's just a graphical version of the cursesy interface
[17:09] <ali1234> i mean someone can always maintain a release if it is a particularly good one
[17:09] <ali1234> as with linux
[17:09] <ali1234> and they won't have to necessarily stick to six months
[17:09] <ali1234> they can wait a month if it's not quite ready
[17:10] <ali1234> trouble is i doubt anyone will bother
[17:14] <BigRedS> ah yeah, especially for the people who make ubunut derivatives but don't want to have to wait for LTSs
[17:14] <BigRedS> but it's a lot of effort to support the entirety of even whatever subset a derivative picks
[17:15] <ali1234> not really
[17:15] <ali1234> if you're not modifying anything it is just a matter of backporting fixes
[17:16] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, I forgot there'd be the next month's to grab the fixes out of...
[17:17] <ali1234> the problem with derivates is they go off and patch everything and then have to keep rebasing their changes
[17:17] <ali1234> which as we all know, is virtually impossible with bzr
[17:23] <Azelphur> spent ages with everyone being irritated by continual waves of brazilian people coming to my server and mic spamming, figured out I had sv_region set to south america, derp.
[17:26] <ali1234> lol
[17:26] <BigRedS> I love problems like that
[17:26] <BigRedS> especially when other peopel have them
[17:27] <ali1234> slightly related, do non-english TF2 communities have their own micspam memes that we've never heard of? or is billy mays a global thing?
[17:27] <BigRedS> but, that reminds me, I've been asked for a counterstrike server. How resource hungry are they? Also, got an idiot-proof howto?
[17:59] <Azelphur> BigRedS: what type of counter strike
[17:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: I dunno, I don't understand them to find out :P
[18:19] <BigRedS> Azelphur: er
[18:19] <BigRedS> there's different sorts?
[18:19]  * BigRedS is a *massive* gamer
[18:19] <Azelphur> yep
[18:19] <BigRedS> the old one?
[18:19] <Azelphur> the really really old one?
[18:19] <Azelphur> that'd be CS 1.6
[18:19] <BigRedS> probably. Not Source
[18:19] <Azelphur> yea, not source
[18:20] <Azelphur> dunno about resources on that, not much
[18:20] <BigRedS> oh good! :)
[18:20] <Azelphur> are you looking for hosting?
[18:20] <BigRedS> Nah, I work at a hosting company
[18:20] <Azelphur> ah ok then
[18:20] <Azelphur> just allocate it a single core
[18:20] <Azelphur> and it should be fine
[18:20] <BigRedS> But we don't normally do games, and there doesn't seem to be an apt-get install counterstrike-server
[18:20] <bigcalm> Grrr at "Missing executable" in Steam
[18:20] <Azelphur> BigRedS: you know CS:Source is native now, right?
[18:20] <BigRedS> Ah, it's all single-threaded? So a really quick single core makes more sense than many slow ones?
[18:21] <BigRedS> Nope!
[18:21] <Azelphur> for all intense and purposes it's single threaded
[18:21] <BigRedS> Heh, if CS:S is easier I might just do that and feign misunderstanding :)
[18:21] <Azelphur> it does have threads, they just arn't balanced at all
[18:21] <Azelphur> yea, afaik 1.6 is windows only for now
[18:21] <Azelphur> where as source is native
[18:21] <BigRedS> Oh, right. I'll go with source. It sounds like less hassle
[18:22] <Azelphur> the server is linux on either of em
[18:22] <Azelphur> but the client is native linux on source
[18:22] <Azelphur> :)
[18:22] <Azelphur> BigRedS: are you planning on loading a lot of plugins?
[18:22] <Azelphur> if not, 256MB is ok I think :)
[18:23] <Azelphur> havn't ran CS:S in a long time, I mostly do TF2
[18:23] <Azelphur> (although my server plugins work on CS:S too :P)
[18:23] <BigRedS> plugins? Whoah
[18:23] <BigRedS> I've not really planned anything :)
[18:23] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:23] <BigRedS> what would I use plugins for? New  weapons/game modes?
[18:23] <Azelphur> https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1204192 greatest plugin ever </shameless plug>
[18:24] <BigRedS> Oh, all sorts
[18:24] <Azelphur> yep, all sorts
[18:24] <BigRedS> yeah, not knowingly
[18:24] <Azelphur> everything from new game modes to irc ;)
[18:26] <BigRedS> And that's happy with a bunch of slow cores?
[18:26] <BigRedS> 'cause that's a good description of my HV :)
[18:27] <Azelphur> nope
[18:27] <Azelphur> pretty much everything valve is rape a single core
[18:27] <BigRedS> bag
[18:27] <BigRedS> bah, even
[18:28] <Azelphur> I have a big dedi in NYC I run my empire on
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> you're an emperor?
[18:38] <Azelphur> yep
[18:38] <Azelphur> XD
[18:42] <BigRedS> When we sold dedicated machines in NY the product was called 'empire' IIRC
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> well it's the empire state..
[18:45]  * mgdm is currently playing with his new dedicated box in France
[18:45] <mgdm> (it's cheap)
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: gandi.net?
[18:45]  * MartijnVdS has a vps in the uk
[18:45] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: OVH
[18:46] <mgdm> It's running SmartOS, which is fun, 'cos I've never done Solaris before
[19:03] <BigRedS> ooh, is that what became of opensolaris?
[19:04] <popey> slowlaris *snerk*
[19:05] <BigRedS> Oh, no, I've come across this before!
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> popey: slowloris? :)
[19:05] <BigRedS> I meant to have a play with it but still haven't got around to it
[19:06] <dwatkins> is Solaris really slow, or is it just that it runs on what are now fairly old machines (with non-Intel CPUs)?
[19:06] <popey> there is x86 solaris
[19:06] <BigRedS> solaris is run on x86 plenty
[19:06] <popey> Sun shipped X86-64 AMD boxes for some time
[19:06] <popey> they were quite pokey
[19:06] <popey> and spendy
[19:06] <dwatkins> I regret throwing out an old SPARC-based pizza box.
[19:07] <dwatkins> Might see if I can get another just for playing with.
[19:07] <dwatkins> I may even have to see about interfacing a compact-flash card to it so I don't have to worry about the age of a SCSI disk.
[19:27] <redtape-renegade> Best quote of the day:: Do you Want To Go Out And Meditate With Grandma ?? http://youtu.be/DHwKXy4zElA?t=1m49s
[19:29] <mgdm> BigRedS: sort of. There's lots of forks of OpenSolaris. SmartOS is the kernel + a bit of the userland, but it's designed for running KVM virtual machines on ZFS storage
[19:29] <mgdm> BigRedS: there's also OmniOS and a few others
[19:36] <Darael> Hmmm.  Compiz supports multiple desktops as well as multiple workspaces, but only appears to provide mechanisms for changing between the latter.
[19:39] <dwatkins> changing in which sense, Darael?
[19:40] <dwatkins> If I run a secondary X server, I can switch to it with ctrl+alt+F8
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> should be yes
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> if you start it as X :1
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> I think that's how user switching works as well
[19:41] <dwatkins> I enabled the cube, it's all kinds of pointless, but it's fun.
[19:41] <Darael> Nah.  Not the same thing.  The Metacity concept referred to as "desktops" is actually distinct from the Compiz Workspaces.
[19:41] <dwatkins> having two monitors with a desktop cube is fun.
[19:41] <dwatkins> What is it, Darael?
[19:41] <popey> i thought desktops == workspaces
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> no
[19:41] <popey> just a synonym
[19:41] <Darael> They function the same way, but they're seperate.
[19:42] <Darael> I can demonstrate this with the machine I'm on.
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> Darael: they function similarly, but they're different
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> In ole tymes you used to be able to move apps between workspaces, but not between desktops
[19:42] <Darael> However, Compiz actually appears to support both, but only *switching* support for workspaces.
[19:43] <Darael> All this within a single X server, of course.
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> ah:
[19:44] <dwatkins> ooooh, xinerama days
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> it's all inherited from fvwm days :)
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> that allows you to have several "desks" which can have a set of "workspaces" each
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> so you have a "Work" desk and a "Home" desk, and the "Work" desk has a workspace for your editor + compiler, work mail, etc.
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> and the "Home" one has one for home mail, and other "home" things
[19:46] <dwatkins> ah yes, the nightmarish grid
[19:47] <Darael> Disclaimer:  Right now I'm on a uni machine which is running some modified version of Precise with what appears to be GNOME Classic (eg gnome-panel 1:3.4.1-0ubuntu1.1 [...]).  The workspace switcher applet displays workspaces by default, but if any change is made to the number of *desktops* it shows only them.  Workspace switching works by the usual keyboard shortcuts, and I can get to a different *desktop* by clicking ...
[19:47] <Darael> ... the switcher (though I have to jump some hoops to get back, since the panel runs only on desktop 1).
[19:48] <Darael> What interests me is that Compiz allows multiple desktops but (as I mentioned) appears to have no way to configure ways of switching between them.
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> (unrelated.. tonight's music recommendation: http://open.spotify.com/album/0mEgjSX0fTulFtZFNs46Bg )
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> Darael: can't you bind keys to the events?
[19:49] <Darael> Hmm?
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> Darael: I assume you can set keys to "Switch desktop" or something in a generic key binding editor?
[19:50]  * mgdm wants an addon for Chrome that will split the screen the same way Terminator can
[19:50] <mgdm> sadly, the only one I could find doesn't work at all on multiple monitors
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: you mean like blender does?
[19:50] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: Blender as in the 3D thing, or something else?
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> 3d
[19:50] <mgdm> I've not used it since around 1999 :)
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> it has its own internal "window management"
[19:51] <dwatkins> FVWM: Will it blend?
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> that allows you to split windows horizontally or vertically
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: let's find out!
[19:51] <mgdm> well, in Terminator, you right-click and you can get 'split horizonally' or 'split vertically' options
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: so yes, similar :)
[19:51] <mgdm> iTerm2 on OSX does the same thing
[19:52] <dwatkins> I think tmux does vertical and horizontal splitting.
[19:52] <mgdm> yes
[19:52] <dwatkins> screen doesn't, which is a shame.
[19:52] <mgdm> Are you sure?
[19:52] <mgdm> I could have sworn I did it in screen once, though it was TREMENDOUS FAFF
[19:53] <Darael> Actually, the version of screen in Ubuntu includes the patch for splitting... whichever way the default doesn't.
[19:53] <dwatkins> ah, that may be it
[19:53] <mgdm> http://news.softpedia.com/news/GNU-Screen-Tutorial-44274.shtml
[19:53] <Darael> IIRC.
[19:53] <Darael> I use tmux, so I'm not particularly bothered.
[19:53] <mgdm> iTerm2 is cunning in that it can display tmux split windows using native widgets
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:53] <mgdm> (which I've not tried, but it looks cool)
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> gnome-terminal should implement that :)
[19:53] <mgdm> requires a patch for tmux, though
[19:54] <mgdm> I've not used gnome-terminal since terminator existed
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> I've tried terminator, but I can't get used to it
[19:55] <mgdm> at work I have a 27" iMac that spends much of its time witha  full-screen iterm2 running 3 vertically-split terminals :-)
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> we need ANSI sequences for 3D
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> so you can actually use the GPU from your terminal
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> ANSI-GL
[19:56] <dwatkins> mgdm: I tend to run iterm2 fullscreen on my Mac a lot
[19:56] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: heh heh
[19:56] <dwatkins> I'd use Cathode as a terminal, but it uses the GPU too much
[19:56] <mgdm> hehe, oh yeah
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: and you could implement the "Jurassic Park" interface in shell
[19:57] <mgdm> most of my work is a terminal and a web browser, both full screen, just alt-tab between
[19:57] <mgdm> Oh, and often Sequel Pro too
[19:57] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: hah
[19:57]  * mgdm is reminded of mplayer -vo aa
[19:58]  * dwatkins grins
[19:58] <dwatkins> I wonder if the Mac version has that
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: not -vo caca? that's similar but with colours
[19:58] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: yeah, but aa has been there loger
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> but we have colour screens now!
[19:59] <mgdm> aa had a better frame rate on my 600MHz Celeron back in the day
[20:00] <mgdm> (also I'm going to go back to referring to Hertz as 'cycles'. It's much cooler.)
[20:00] <mgdm> 'My laptop runs at 600 megacycles' etc
[20:04] <directhex> mgdm, dont use "mega", actually use the number
[20:04] <directhex> i.e. million and so on
[20:04] <mgdm> I might have to do that for giga, etc, but there is something cool about 'mega' and 'kilo'
[20:04] <directhex> hyper!
[20:05] <mgdm> now you're channeling Scooter
[20:05] <mgdm> which is a form of retro could do without
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> HYPER HYPER
[20:06] <dwatkins> I replaced my IBM Model M keyboard's function keys with red ones, like on the Archimedes
[20:08] <mgdm> nice :)
[20:08] <mgdm> that'd look really silly on my Mac keyboard, though :(
[20:09] <mgdm> we have older-style Mac keyboards at work (the ones with full-size keys) that are coloured to work with Avid video editing stuff
[20:09] <mgdm> they look quite cool
[20:09] <dwatkins> I have a USB adapter cable for it, mgdm - it works with my Mac :)
[20:10] <mgdm> I mean the other way around - my Mac keyboard would look odd with big clicky function keys on :-)
[20:10] <mgdm> also I'm not a fan of the Model M
[20:13] <dwatkins> Blasphemy! ;)
[20:26] <mgdm> heh, so I hear
[20:26] <ali1234> it's too loud
[20:27] <ali1234> if someone made one that was as quiet as a membrane it would be great
[20:46] <redtape-renegade> What is the quickest way to-do a word count on a pdf ??
[20:47] <redtape-renegade> OR alternatively :: Can you tell me how many words (in English) are in the Ubuntu Manual ???
[20:47] <redtape-renegade> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[20:48] <mgdm> pdftotext thing.pdf | wc
[20:48] <mgdm> ?
[20:50] <ali1234> not always
[20:50] <redtape-renegade> Can't someone just tell me . Please ?
[20:50] <ali1234> probably would work with that one though
[20:51] <ali1234> when you say "how many words in english" what do you mean exactly?
[20:51] <redtape-renegade> I mean how many words are there ?? It happens to be in English.
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: and he told you how to figure it out yourself :)
[20:52] <redtape-renegade> I'm trying, I'm trying...
[20:53] <ali1234> doesn't work
[20:56] <redtape-renegade> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5574517/ Any help here .. I dont know WTH I'm doing ???
[20:59] <ali1234> you need to escape the spaces in file name
[21:04] <redtape-renegade> ok hangon..
[21:06] <redtape-renegade> nope I didn't get it ... http://paste.ubuntu.com/5574539/
[21:06] <dwatkins> did you rename the file, redtape-renegade?
[21:07] <redtape-renegade> no
[21:07] <dwatkins> you're trying to get pdftotext to open a file that doesn't exist, rename it to include the underscores then try the first one again.
[21:07] <redtape-renegade> do you want me to ?
[21:07] <redtape-renegade> oh ok..
[21:07] <dwatkins> if you want the command not to fail with "couldn't open file" ;)
[21:09] <redtape-renegade> nope still doesn't work .. and I did it perfect..
[21:10] <redtape-renegade> can someone just download this and tell me please ?
[21:10] <redtape-renegade> it's only 9MB
[21:10] <shauno> let the shell do the thinking for you.  pdftotext Getting and then hit tab.  it'll escape it for you
[21:11] <redtape-renegade> ok trying that ...
[21:12] <redtape-renegade> it doesn't do anything .. it just does nothing when I do that ..
[21:14] <ali1234> it doesn't work already
[21:14] <ali1234> i already downloaded it and ran the command
[21:14] <ali1234> it outputs 0
[21:14] <redtape-renegade> Well how do I find out how many words are in the doc . ?
[21:14] <redtape-renegade> Can I do this on winblows ?
[21:15] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: load it in to Acrobat, perhaps there's a word count tool
[21:15] <redtape-renegade> ok..
[21:15] <dwatkins> ah, sorry - you'd need to convert it for that, it seems
[21:16] <dwatkins> or open it, copy all the text into a text editor, save and use 'wc' on that if you can't convert at the command line
[21:16] <dwatkins> what PDF are you word-cunting, redtape-renegade - I'll see if I can do it here
[21:16] <dwatkins> *counting sorry
[21:17] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: often, tab-complete fails if there's more than one possible file, so you have to give it the next character
[21:18] <redtape-renegade> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[21:18] <redtape-renegade> i think i need to export it to notepad or something ??
[21:20] <redtape-renegade> Ahh . it does it in Acrobat .. you can export to a txt file :)
[21:20] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: http://hastebin.com/diwagavexi.scala
[21:20] <redtape-renegade> Fast too .. like OCR on steroids
[21:20] <redtape-renegade> opening...
[21:21] <dwatkins> That's what escapaing is.
[21:21] <dwatkins> Using\ backslashes\ for\ all\ the\ spaces.
[21:21] <dwatkins> Interpretting the output of wc is left as an excercise for the reader.
[21:23] <redtape-renegade> oh Ok .. thankyou so much .. I'm going to study your hastebin tonite .. cheers.
[21:25] <dwatkins> cool
[21:26] <Myrtti> I wonder would Nexus 4 fit into the new Nokia car charger
[21:27] <dwatkins> ooh, it has wireless charging, Myrtti - nice
[21:28] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins: So it's 6860 words, I'm not sure ?
[21:31] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: what does the wc manpage say? ;)
[21:31] <dwatkins> (about the output)
[21:47] <jessicapollock> I have no idea if I am in the right place so I apologize in advance. I'm looking for someone who can help me (a complete ubuntu novice) figure out how to make ubuntu connect to the internet.
[21:47] <dwatkins> hi jessicapollock
[21:47] <jessicapollock> Hello dwatkins
[21:47] <dwatkins> welcome to Ubuntu UK, perhaps we can get you online
[21:47] <dwatkins> what's the problem/symptoms?
[21:47] <jessicapollock> That would be much appreciated thank you.
[21:48] <redtape-renegade> I'll come back to you dwatkins .. thanks so far .. good luck jessica & Welcome \o/
[21:48] <dwatkins> np redtape-renegade
[21:49] <jessicapollock> Well, I have windows Vista, which I am using to connect now and chat with you. I installed ubuntu 12.04 to replace my awful OS and when I boot Ubuntu it does not recognize any internet connections wired or otherwise.
[21:49] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: ah I see; what kind of network card or wifi card are you using in Windows to connect?
[21:50] <jessicapollock> Honestly, I am not sure. I am using a rebuilt computer that I purchased  a few years ago.
[21:50] <jessicapollock> I don't even know how to find out.
[21:50] <jessicapollock> Originally all the parts were dell inspiron 1521
[21:50] <dwatkins> if you press the windows key and the 'break' key together, that should open the device list, I believe - you should be able to see from there
[21:51] <dwatkins> ah, device manager is linked from there, anyway
[21:52] <jessicapollock> I have device manager open. what am I looking for?
[21:52] <dwatkins> should have a section called 'network adapters'
[21:52] <dwatkins> I assume you have a physical cable going from the PC to the router, also.
[21:53] <jessicapollock> Not at the moment. It's a wireless connection while on vista but I can change that if need be.
[21:53] <popey> also, a command prompt window and the "ipconfig" command will tell you
[21:53] <dwatkins> ok, should still be something in the list that isn't crossed out
[21:53] <dwatkins> ah yes, thanks popey
[21:53] <jessicapollock> is dell wireless 1390 wlan mini-card what i'm looking for?
[21:54] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: sounds like the kind of information we need, yeah, I'll have a look...
[21:54] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: looks like you'll need to install some packages by using a wired connection in order to get your wireless card to work
[21:54] <dwatkins> (under Ubuntu)
[21:55] <jessicapollock> ubuntu won't recognize my wired connection either though...
[21:55] <dwatkins> is there a wired/ethernet card in the list as well, jessicapollock?
[21:55] <dwatkins> in device manager, that is
[21:56] <jessicapollock> there is a broadcom440x10/100 intergrated controller...
[21:56] <dwatkins> for reference, this should be what you need to do to get the wireless card to work: http://askubuntu.com/questions/87519/how-to-make-my-dell-1390-wlan-minicard-work
[21:56] <jessicapollock> thankyou
[21:57] <dwatkins> does the wired card work under Vista when you plug the cable in, jessicapollock?
[21:57] <jessicapollock> I haven't checked recently but it is how I set up the wireless network originally. I can go plug in if need be.
[21:59] <dwatkins> I'm not entirely certain, but the few pages I've found which refer to that Broadcom card and Ubuntu seem to suggest it should have drivers, so it may be a configuration issue on the PC or the router. The default config in Ubuntu should get a DHCP address, so either 12.04 hasn't installed a working driver, or the router isn't giving you an IP address for some reason, I suspect, when the cable's in and you boot Ubuntu.
[22:00] <directhex> ali1234, ping
[22:01] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: it may simply be a case of manually loading a module, however
[22:01] <jessicapollock> So would re-installing ubuntu help do you think? Originally I used the windows installer to do it. Should I write a disk instead?
[22:01] <ali1234> yes?
[22:02] <dwatkins> jessicapollock: this might be the easiest way to get the wired card working: http://askubuntu.com/questions/14970/broadcom-bcm4401-b0-100base-tx-issues
[22:02] <directhex> ali1234, was it you that did a bunch of secure boot tinkering in a VM?
[22:02] <ali1234> yeah
[22:02] <dwatkins> i.e. uncomment the line in the blacklist file by removing the hash symbol, jessicapollock
[22:02] <ali1234> on my webpage: al.robotfuzz.com
[22:02] <directhex> ali1234, what's the url?
[22:03] <jessicapollock> thank you. I'll give it a try.
[22:03] <dwatkins> good luck :)
[22:03] <bigcalm> directhex: in Steam, have you experienced missing executables on freshly installed games? I'm getting that on Shatter
[22:04] <directhex> bigcalm, happens when a game isn't properly uploaded yet
[22:05] <directhex> bigcalm, i.e. clickign "install" doesn't yet download the correct depots, due to misconfiguration by the game publisher
[22:05] <bigcalm> directhex: ah, thanks. I'll delete local content and try installing it again
[22:06] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins : 12936words                                                                                                  .. aaaaaaaand thank-you.
[22:06] <bigcalm> I've also found that some games start full screen, but see my screen size as that of 3 screens put together. But as it only full screens on the left hand monitor, I don't get to see any controls. A touch annoying
[22:06] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: that wasn't even in my wc output ;)
[22:07] <redtape-renegade> Wow .. A task that took 30 seconds in Win98 took me 1 hour and twenty minutes .. well there you go..
[22:07] <bigcalm> directhex: know if there's a way to force a game not to start full screen? Latest example is Kentucky Route Zero
[22:07] <directhex> bigcalm, NO, THAT'S A PER-GAME QUESTION
[22:07] <directhex> bah, cat loves capslock
[22:07] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: that's often the case when there aren't commandline tools available
[22:07] <bigcalm> directhex: I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE!
[22:07] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: I tend to install putty ;)
[22:07] <bigcalm> :)
[22:07] <ali1234> bigcalm: that's avery common problem which there are various workarounds for
[22:08] <redtape-renegade> I had to use Abiwords .. Crumbs .. it's like I'm back in USSR or something tonite !
[22:08] <ali1234> bigcalm: i documented a few on here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/145528/how-to-run-humble-bundle-v-games-on-a-system-with-nvidia-twinview
[22:08] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: I make it 52659 words, did you not look up how wc displays its output?
[22:08] <bigcalm> What's worse is that my central screen is rotated 90 deg. So the screen size is even larger than physically possible
[22:09] <bigcalm> ali1234: I'll take a look, ta
[22:09] <ali1234> that covers SDL and wine games at least
[22:09] <ali1234> if it's some proprietary engine you are probably screwed unless you use some kind of LD_PRELOAD tricker
[22:09] <ali1234> y
[22:10] <bigcalm> I could try exporting SDL_VIDEO_FULLSCREEN_DISPLAY=0 from ~.bashrc
[22:10] <ali1234> i put it in /etc/environment
[22:10] <bigcalm> ~/.bashrc that is
[22:11] <ali1234> it should really be the default since you almost never want games spanning monitors unless they are specifically written with that in mind
[22:11] <ali1234> which virtually no games are
[22:11] <bigcalm> Even less so for me with my central monitor rotation
[22:11] <ali1234> yes
[22:12] <ali1234> any games that can handle your setup would have a very elaborate custom configuration specifically for the job anyway
[22:12] <ali1234> that goes pretty much even for basic dual head
[22:13] <ali1234> the one problem with SDL though is it will grab the mouse pointer even if the game doesn't use mouse. there's a patc for SDL to fix that but upstream refuses to apply it since the only type of game they understand is FPS
[22:15] <redtape-renegade> Anmyway to translate the current Ubuntu Manual in chinese would take £184.17 according to this guy :: http://goo.gl/2eJpU ( with over 200+ positive references.
[22:15] <redtape-renegade> That was the point of all that(which took 2 hours !!) .. anybody fancy going halves ??
[22:16] <dwatkins> there might be some people on the -cn channel who would do it for karma.
[22:17] <ali1234> 184.17 what?
[22:18] <redtape-renegade> GBP.
[22:19] <redtape-renegade> My idea of community is if you can't pay someone who can...
[22:19] <redtape-renegade> My idea of community is if you can't -  pay someone who can...
[22:24] <ali1234> ah... you;re going to pay a general translator to translate a highly technical document?
[22:24] <ali1234> i have a feeling that might not turn out very good
[22:25] <ali1234> you probably need people who both fluent chinese and also know how to use ubuntu in the first place, otherwise you're highly likely to get nonsense even with a very good translator
[22:29] <dwatkins> hence my suggestion of the Chinese Ubuntu channel
[22:29] <dwatkins> !cn
[22:30] <dwatkins> Karma isn't a real and tangible thing, but it may be that some people on there will want to help and having their name in the credits will be payment enough. Worth a try for a few lines of text.
[22:30] <ali1234> sure it is
[22:30] <ali1234> it's right there on launchpad
[22:32] <shauno> translation is rarely that simple.  you end up bouncing between a translator, and a proofreader who understands the subject matter
[22:33] <shauno> (it's rarely as simple as just being fluent in both languages)
[22:34] <ali1234> of course a first draft might be a good way to kick start further development
[22:35] <ali1234> assuming it's not totally awful
[22:39] <shauno> it's an interesting idea, just worth knowing what you're getting into.  and that if you don't find community buy-in, your translation becomes more outdated with each revision, etc
[22:40] <ali1234> does anyone know about terminal resizing?
[22:41] <ali1234> ie how does nano know i resized the xterm window
[22:41] <ali1234> and what would cause this to not work?
[22:43] <shauno> usually if something else is catching SIGWINCH; eg, screen would catch it, and then resend it to its contents
[22:43] <mgdm> is it not sent a signal like SIGWINCH ?
[22:43] <redtape-renegade> shauno: Yeah .. it's a good idea . /that being/ that the translation gets updated, but you need a base first .. otherwise 1345Million people have nothing to go on .. and will not learn the way of the force *cough* Ubuntu.
[22:47] <ali1234> ah, so adb is probably catching a bunch of sgnals and not passing them through...
[22:48] <shauno> I'm not sure it even has to explicitely catch it.  any abstraction layer just means the terminal is sending the signal to the wrong process
[22:49] <ali1234> yes
[22:49] <ali1234> the other problem i have is the enter key doesn't work in nano
[22:49] <ali1234> it works for text editing, but when you enter file name and press enter... nothing happens
[22:49] <ali1234> i'm guessing this is a similar issue
[22:50] <ali1234> i wonder how i could debug this
[22:51] <dwatkins> ali1234: I assume this happens after a reset in the terminal and with a new user account
[22:51] <dwatkins> i.e. no config
[22:51] <ali1234> adb passes through ctrl-c fine though, so i can escape
[22:51] <ali1234> dwatkins: it happens on ubuntu phone
[22:51] <shauno> would adb cause $TERM to not be available to nano?
[22:51] <ali1234> no, $TERM is fine
[22:52] <ali1234> it doesn't seem related to the chroot either because i see other reports on vanilla android
[22:52] <ali1234> so it must be either adb or busybox related
[22:52] <dwatkins> does freenx exist in quantal in a ppa or something?
[22:53] <dwatkins> I tried the one suggested on eht relevant official page but there's no package for 12.10
[22:56] <dwatkins> aha sudo add-apt-repository ppa:freenx-team/testing
[23:09] <ali1234> googling for SIGWINCH allowed me to find this: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=35897
[23:09] <ali1234> so it is adb problem