[00:32] <ochosi> bluesabre: not what you asked exactly, but nope :)
[01:10] <micahg> bluesabre: are you interested in the packaging for catfish as well or just upstream?
[01:10] <ochosi> hey micahg 
[01:10] <micahg> hi ochosi 
[01:10] <ochosi> do we still ship the unico-engine by default?
[01:10] <micahg> idr
[01:11] <ochosi> if so, we can drop it
[01:11] <ochosi> we got rid of that dependency in all our themes now
[01:11] <ochosi> (but the themes need an update)
[01:11] <micahg> ochosi: nope, not on the iimage
[01:11] <ochosi> (icons plus gtk)
[01:11] <ochosi> aha
[01:11] <ochosi> interesting
[01:11] <ochosi> wondering how bluebird looked out-of-the-box then :)
[01:11] <micahg> hrm, yes it is, seeded-in-ubuntu is lying
[01:12] <micahg> or my apt-cache is old
[01:12]  * micahg wonders why seeded-in-ubuntu is lying
[01:13] <micahg> ah, I think we need a meta update
[01:13] <ochosi> ok
[01:14] <micahg> no, the task generator seems wrong...
[01:14] <ochosi> in that case (if i have two wishes free) please update xubuntu-artwork (as mr_pouit doesn't seem to be around atm) and drop unico
[01:14] <ochosi> (if you have time that is)
[01:15] <micahg> it's shimmer-themes with the recommends
[01:15] <micahg> and unfortunately, I don't have the time tonight
[01:16] <ochosi> doesn't have to be tonight
[01:16] <ochosi> any time soon is good enough
[01:16] <ochosi> in fact, it'd be best for me if we set a date
[01:16] <micahg> just drop the recommends or are there changes in the branch?
[01:16] <ochosi> then i can try to get stuff into shape
[01:16] <micahg> feature freeze is Mar 7, that's the deadline for getting stuff in shape
[01:17] <ochosi> i know, but preferrably i'd have some time after uploading _and_ before the freeze
[01:17] <ochosi> at least a little
[01:17] <micahg> well, if it's just dropping the recommends, I can do that now
[01:18] <micahg> if it's more, I have to wait
[01:18] <ochosi> that'd be a good start
[01:18] <GridCube> bluesabre, :/ i know this might be too late, but i still dont understand how does catfish is meant to work
[01:18] <micahg> ochosi: will that break anything without theme updates?
[01:18] <GridCube> im using 12.10 now and doing a search for *.mp3 still resulted on nothing :/
[01:18] <ochosi> micahg: it'll break bluebird, but it'll be fixed after the theme-update
[01:19] <micahg> ochosi: I'd prefer to do them together to force the upgrade with a breaks
[01:19] <ochosi> sure
[01:19] <ochosi> fine too
[01:19] <micahg> so, maybe tomorrow or Sunday
[01:20] <ochosi> it's not like we need those few kb we gain from dropping unico
[01:21] <ochosi> micahg: but anyway, if we could arrange that update, that'd be good
[01:22] <ochosi> i'm somewhat afraid mr_pouit won't return in time
[01:22] <bluesabre> hey gridcube
[01:22] <bluesabre> just search for mp3
[01:22] <ochosi> GridCube ^
[01:22] <ochosi> ;)
[01:22] <bluesabre> I think I broke wildcards
[01:22] <GridCube> oh
[01:22] <bluesabre> I'll fix that too
[01:23] <GridCube> well look at that
[01:23] <bluesabre> :)
[01:23]  * micahg is waiting for bluesabre to answer his question
[01:23] <bluesabre> oh
[01:23] <bluesabre> missed that!
[01:24] <bluesabre> micahg, yeah, definitely interested in getting catfish packaged
[01:24] <bluesabre> though, I'll be doing a point release tomorrow
[01:24] <micahg> bluesabre: I was wondering about you wanting to do the packaging or not
[01:25] <bluesabre> yes, if at all possible
[01:25] <ochosi> k folks, i'm off for tonight
[01:25] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[01:26] <ochosi> micahg: hope we can settle this somehow tomorrow or on the weekend
[01:26] <ochosi> micahg: you can always ping me, i'll read it in the backlog the latest ;)
[01:26] <bluesabre> micahg, is there something I should read up on, or what would I have to do?
[01:26] <micahg> bluesabre: so, are you familiar enough to upload a version to mentors.debian.net>
[01:27] <bluesabre> not yet, but I can look into doing that
[01:27] <bluesabre> I haven't done much packaging at this point
[01:28] <bluesabre> k, looks like they've got a bunch of introductory info on that page
[01:31] <bluesabre> micahg, so should I ping you again once I've got it on there?
[01:32] <micahg> bluesabre: well, if you think you can get it up there, sure
[01:33] <bluesabre> I think I should be able to figure it out
[06:15]  * pleia2 works on sending ALL THE EMAILS
[10:36] <bluesabre> GridCube, just pushed complete wildcard support into lp:catfish-search if you're interested in trying it out
[16:41] <ochosi> knome: so now it's officially out there. the proposal for rolling release... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
[16:55] <knome> ochosi, atm, i don't have a stance really.
[16:57] <knome> micahg, instant reaction?
[16:57] <micahg> we've been discussing in MOTU
[16:58] <micahg> it sucks for flavours who value intermediate releases to have their latest stack shippable and receive security support
[16:58] <micahg> unless we think our user base is ready for rolling release
[16:59] <knome> why wouldn't they?
[17:00] <micahg> constant updates, software changing out from under them
[17:00] <knome> that happens already
[17:01] <knome> i'm not sure if there's anything else than xfce that might affect our users in a possibly negative way
[17:04] <micahg> that doesn't happen save for Firefox/CHromium and Thunderbird (this one is down to ~1 massive change per year)
[17:05] <knome> no, but i can't see people specifically wanting to stick with old versions, and i believe those are quite widespread anyway (so they'll receive bug fixes in a relatively quick manner)
[17:05] <knome> if they want maximum stability, they should choose LTS anyway
[17:09] <micahg> our current stable release policy is no UI or feature changes save for very few exceptions
[17:09] <knome> mmh
[17:21] <ochosi> yeah, i guess the UI changes are the more critical
[17:22] <ochosi> otoh it means we can also fix things on the go
[17:22] <ochosi> which is nicer than having to go through a painful backporting process
[17:22] <ochosi> (i assume there won't be drastic theme changes)
[17:24] <knome> probably not, but we haven't had those now either
[17:27] <GridCube> are you talking about the rolling release model proposal?
[17:29] <knome> yes
[17:31] <GridCube> i dont know much about that, but i do wonder, how are iso's managed then? i mean, for example, now if i download xubuntu 12.10, i dont have to run that many updates to get it up to date, but if only lts iso's exist... then i have to run a gazillion updates the first time i install the system?
[17:32] <micahg> GridCube: you can grab a daily snapshot
[17:32] <GridCube> oh... they will still exist? 
[17:32] <GridCube> i see
[17:33] <GridCube> well then nevermind
[17:35] <skellat> GridCube: That would sound about right
[17:35] <GridCube> :/
[17:36] <skellat> This much change this quickly is worrisome
[17:36] <GridCube> nah
[17:37] <knome> GridCube, yes it is.
[17:38] <knome> i'm already writing another blog article jono won't like.
[17:38] <skellat> In the past 48 hours, we've had how many earth-shattering kabooms drop on us?
[17:38] <GridCube> 1?
[17:38] <skellat> At least 2.  The shift in UDS format plus this new proposal for shifting to rolling releases.
[17:39] <knome> GridCube, online UDS only, discussiona bout rolling releases
[17:39] <GridCube> yes, but thats a discussion, not a fact
[17:39] <GridCube> there is no "bomb" on a proposal to discuss something
[17:39] <GridCube> dont overreact to something that has not even been made yet
[17:39] <skellat> The way the proposal was put forward on rolling releases, it looks like that that is why we're having the UDS March session
[17:40] <knome> i'm 99% certain it will roll out as "canonical will switch to rolling releases, you had the possibility to comment"
[17:40] <knome> GridCube, please don't shut your eyes from how things have been rolled out before
[17:41] <skellat> There's an UbuntuOnAir tomorrow that's going to lay out the proposal in more detail as it is
[17:41] <GridCube> knome, yes :) i understand you, but again remember that you ARE the leader for xubuntu, and that xubuntu IS a huge derivative of ubuntu. that many people care and use and like. You represent us all. 
[17:42] <knome> GridCube, ...yes?
[17:42] <GridCube> thats why i ask you politely to not overreact
[17:42] <micahg> GridCube: no, this is a bombshell in the whole way that Canonical has gone about it, time will tell if there's any real community input accepted here
[17:42] <GridCube> okay
[17:43] <GridCube> you are the more experienced people here
[17:43] <knome> i don't think everybody is overreacting here. if you had seen the discussion on #ubuntu-release yesterday, you'd know there are people who are even more pessimistic about this
[17:43] <GridCube> i wont meddle in things i don't understand and will just hope for the best
[17:44] <knome> we all hope for the best, but we need to be prepared for the worst
[17:44] <GridCube> knome, :) agreed
[17:44] <knome> the history has taught us things will most probably not roll out as we wish
[17:44]  * micahg notes to read backscroll in -release
[17:44] <pleia2> micahg: can't do that until beer-o-clock
[17:44] <knome> micahg, hint: a release team member with a kubuntu hat as well.
[17:45]  * micahg is probably already aware :)
[17:45] <knome> yeah, that's not a surprise
[17:45] <knome> not to say i don't agree with him
[17:46] <knome> not sure how i go with the blog article, but i hope to get it out as soon as possible, and might ask for some input from you (pleia2+micahg) and him
[17:46] <knome> and why not others who probably think alike.
[17:46] <knome> anyway, need to be going now
[17:46] <knome> quality time with wife started 15mins ago
[17:46] <knome> see you!
[17:47] <skellat> As seen over in #ubuntu-release: (12:28:12 PM) Riddell: so is raring really cancelled?
[17:48] <skellat> knome: I look forward to your bit on the planet.  It looks like I'll be writing too.
[17:49]  * skellat wanders off to find a drink
[18:33]  * genii-around ponders 13.06
[19:56] <knome> skellat, if you happen to post before me, or even if not, please ping me with the url :)
[19:57] <skellat> knome: Just started writing now.  I'll make sure to drop a link in the channel.
[19:58] <knome> skellat, ta. i started writing today as well, but it usually takes me longer than i want to finish off articles, because i don't want to drop out half-thought articles
[19:58] <skellat> knome: Take a look at this new bit that just popped up too: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/release-r-monthly-snapshots
[19:59] <knome> skellat, yup. that looks like we're moving towards a rolling release, definitely.
[20:00] <knome> want to cover the uds issue first, though naturally there will be *some* discussion about the rolling release as well
[20:02] <skellat> From the blueprints that are registered so far, it looks like UDS is mostly going to be talking about rolling release. 
[20:02] <knome> yes, that's evitable
[21:25] <skellat> knome: Here ya go: http://erielookingproductions.info/ubuntu/2013/02/30-paradigm-shifting-without-a-clutch
[21:25]  * skellat wanders off to do housework
[21:25] <Unit193> Should be on planet too.
[21:25] <knome> skellat, ta
[21:38] <micahg> skellat: hrm, I wanted to do Xubuntu for arm, but couldn't get a kernel for my board :(