[01:09] <jsjgruber-l85-p> Hi all
[07:16] <mister_x_> laba ryta
[10:30] <galtom> Hello
[10:31] <galtom> I think the  ' March 1st, 18:00 UTC ' link is not ok on http://ubuntuonair.com/
[10:31] <galtom> It should be http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130301T18
[10:39] <someone> link on ubuntuonair.com is wrong
[10:39] <someone> for date and time
[10:39] <Guest19623> it should be http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=2013-03-01T18:00:00
[13:36] <CleitonBahia> bom dia!
[13:36] <JoseeAntonioR> hello, CleitonBahia
[16:35] <kaaa> hi
[16:36] <kaaa> will this start in 1 hour and a half?
[17:53] <bethoven> when does it start?
[17:59] <JoseeAntonioR> bethoven: one sec, I'm trying to get this done :)
[17:59] <xnox> Is it on yet?
[18:00] <xnox> Or do we roll when it's ready?
[18:00] <bethoven> check on the youtube page
[18:00] <bethoven> it sais: "This live event will begin in a few moments."
[18:00] <xnox> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04ndWaVfJs&feature=plcp
[18:00] <bethoven> it started
[18:00] <bethoven> it started
[18:00] <xnox> the website is not updated with the scheduled video
[18:01] <jono_> reload
[18:01] <jono_> can you see us?
[18:01] <jono_> JoseeAntonioR, ^
[18:01] <dholbach> works
[18:01] <bethoven> yes
[18:01] <bethoven> it's working
[18:01]  * JoseeAntonioR checks
[18:01] <jsjgruber-l85-p> working now
[18:02] <xnox> Introduce the panelist ! \o/
[18:02] <JoseeAntonioR> works
[18:03] <c_smith> this is interesting.
[18:03] <llstarks> jono, at what time does the narwhal bacon?
[18:04] <llstarks> is raring happening or not?
[18:04] <zyga> jono_: can you ensure that the slides rick displays stay focused? mute people that don't talk but make random noises
[18:04] <jono_> zyga, done
[18:05] <xnox> jono_: I like the beer mug with virtual beer (water?!) in it.
[18:05] <rsalveti> argh, stream is horrible for me
[18:05] <jono_> xnox, I wish :-)
[18:07] <rsalveti> is it on? can't open it here, keeps giving error at the youtube side
[18:07] <madjr> is on
[18:08] <jsjgruber-l99-p> rsalveti: what error are you getting from youtube?
[18:08] <llstarks> jono_, will there be q&a?
[18:08] <rsalveti> just error, try it again
[18:08] <jono_> llstarksyep
[18:09] <jono_> llstarks yep
[18:09] <rsalveti> firefox, chrome, same thing
[18:09] <lool> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04ndWaVfJs&feature=plcp works for me
[18:09] <jono_> rsalveti, there will be a recording, fortunately
[18:09] <zyga> jono_: question for rick if we do questions later: assuming we do a rolling release from LTS to LTS, what can we do to ensure app developers can use the rolling release for application development in wake of unfrozen APIs and transitions that are beyond our control. How can we tell ISVs to use RR for building their apps if we will replace / upgrade all of the stack by synchronizing from debian. Do we need to define a subset of Ubuntu that has special API/ABI
[18:09] <rsalveti> yeah, just wonder how virutal uds will be :-)
[18:09] <jono_> zyga, I will open questions later
[18:10] <llstarks> sup rsalveti, will there be any "new feature showcases" for the evolving ubuntu touch?
[18:10] <jono_> zyga, we will have your question answered :-)
[18:10] <zyga> jono_: thanks
[18:10] <rsalveti> finally, it's working
[18:10] <jono_> :-)
[18:10] <llstarks> wow raring canceled?
[18:10] <rsalveti> llstarks: yeah, next week we'll be discussing a lot for for touch :-)
[18:11] <llstarks> what happens to repo names and sexy animals?
[18:11] <benkaiser> llstarks, saved for LTSs
[18:11] <xnox> llstarks: raring is not cancelled, but we are discussing to release it as LTS in 14.04
[18:11] <xnox> intead of 13.04 as a non-LTS release
[18:11] <jono_> everyone, feel free to add your questions by beginning it with 'QUESTION'
[18:11] <jono_> e.g. :
[18:11] <lool> 6 times more releases!
[18:11] <lool> ;-)
[18:11] <jono_> QUESTION: assuming we do a rolling release from LTS to LTS, what can we do to ensure app developers can use the rolling release for application development in wake of unfrozen APIs and transitions that are beyond our control. How can we tell ISVs to use RR for building their apps if we will replace / upgrade all of the stack by synchronizing from debian. Do we need to define a subset of Ubuntu that has special API/ABI
[18:13] <llstarks> question: what would we be rolling against? sid? and when would the deluge of package updates begin?
[18:13] <notgary> QUESTION: These monthly snapshots sound like monthly releases, if the use doesn't have to upgrade until the next month. Do you agree with that or am I missing something?
[18:13] <lool> I don't understand this last questionw
[18:14] <lool> notgary: could you perhaps rephrase this one?
[18:14] <notgary> lool: Ok
[18:15] <llstarks> yay. now i have no reason to ever use arch or fedora again.
[18:15] <rsalveti> lool: did we decide anything about the debian import freeze?
[18:16] <lool> I think the proposal is not freeze until LTS release time
[18:16] <xnox> notgary: monthly snapshot will not have SRUs, but fixes will arrive as part of next monthly snapshot.
[18:16] <rsalveti> lool: jezz :-)
[18:16] <rsalveti> wild ride
[18:16] <xnox> notgary: it will have some security support for /grave/ issues as rick is pointing out.
[18:16] <lool> well, unstable has RC bugs but also RC fixes rapidly
[18:16] <lool> while e.g. testing doesn't
[18:17] <lool> also, most of main has Ubuntu changes or is Ubuntu-only
[18:17] <notgary> xnox: Thanks.
[18:17] <lool> (or in blacklist)
[18:17] <rsalveti> right
[18:18] <zequence> QUESTION: Instead of a montly shapshot, why not just keep -proposed repo where updates can be frozen if bad regressions are found?
[18:18] <jono_> again folks, get your questions in by adding QUESTION at the beginning (e.g. QUESTION: This is my question)
[18:19] <llstarks> QUESTION: what does this mean for binary drivers? what if nvidia wants to use dma-buf or wayland before the 2014 lts?
[18:20] <rsalveti> lool: I'd like to have month snapshots (stable fs snapshots) + packaging on top during the month, like suggested at the mailing-list
[18:21] <llstarks> virtual uds... can we still get drunk?
[18:21] <galtom> :D
[18:21] <rsalveti> we need a way to easily update the system, by ota or similar when doing the work for phone anyway
[18:21] <lool> rsalveti: it's kind of orthogonal though
[18:22] <lool> rsalveti: this is only a change to layouts of filesystems, right?
[18:22] <zyga> rsalveti: doing a base-image update like android would be interesting
[18:22] <lool> doesn't change the updates we'd prepare, how we'd build them, what's supported etc.
[18:22] <zyga> rsalveti: readonly image vs lots of 'core/base' packages
[18:22] <madjr> QUESTION: 12.04.2 was a massive upgrade to better support new stuff like UEFI, better HUD, updated kernel and the release of Steam! To me it felt as good and exciting as a interim release. So when you move away from these interim (which to me is a lot of duplicated effort), for those who can't wait 2 years, would be perfect to focus more on the LTS point releases and backport more unity features and distro fixes. What do you t
[18:23] <zequence> QUESTION: How is a monthly snapshot supported exactly? Isn't it updated just as a daily?
[18:23] <rsalveti> lool: not necessarily connected with the fs layouts
[18:23] <rsalveti> we a snapshot/ota based update is desired
[18:23] <rsalveti> zyga: yeah, something along that lines
[18:24] <notgary> zequence: the monthly snapshot will not receive SRUs
[18:24] <geofft> QUESTION: How should third-party package repositories avoid breaking the systems of users using the development release, since there's no freeze for them to test? (I think this is the generalization ofthe Kubuntu problem.) How should downstream distros manage their release cycles?
[18:24] <notgary> zequence: and the user will have the option of not upgrading at all each day
[18:24] <notgary> zequence: Only the worst bugs will be back ported to them
[18:24] <rsalveti> we could use that for quality as well, as in case of any big crashes or broken package updates, the user could still do a "factory" reset of the system based on the latest monthly release
[18:24] <zequence> notgary: So, there would also be a feature freeze before the snapshot?
[18:24] <bcurtiswx> QUESTION: What did you mean in the mailing list by "The 13.04 Desktop would not have any of this new code, and therefore will be "old" before it is even released."
[18:24] <Guest13142> QUESTION: If Ubuntu becomes a rolling release, how will be with additional drivers - it will be they available with every new release or when Ubuntu devs try them out?
[18:25] <zyga> jono_: thanks for reading my question :-)
[18:25] <koolhead17> QUESTION: how are we managing packages like OpenStack which has a 6 months lifecycle?
[18:25] <I_Am_A_Dork> QUESTION: Will this focus on phone and tablet mean that in the long all default apps will be Qt/QML?
[18:25] <notgary> zequence: Don't know :)
[18:26] <jimmy> QUESTION: wouldn't rolling release be a problem for tablet/phone manufacturers? don't they want to have certain version of the OS?
[18:26] <hernejj> QUESTION: As a software developer targeting Ubuntu, I feel a rolling release will make my life harder because I will have absolutely know idea which versions of software my users will have.  Can you clarify how I can manage this?
[18:26] <notgary> zequence: I asked your exact question earlier on :P
[18:27] <jimmy> QUESTION: won't new features be a problem for users. I install my updates and suddenly my system behaves differently?
[18:28] <Evropi> Is Jono drinking water from a beer glass?
[18:29] <dobey> QUESTION: Where will 12.10 stand with rolling releases? Will it remain supported until 14.04, or will users be required to update to the unstable rolling release?
[18:29] <madjr> QUESTION: what do you think about the increasing popular semi/half-rolling model like LMDE and Chakra-linux, which offers increase stability over full rolling and also offer regular snapshots, would this be more of the direction you want ?
[18:29] <zequence> notgary: I was asking about how the snapshot would be supported
[18:29] <zequence> ..in contrast to a daily build
[18:30] <rsalveti> jono_: can we remove the focus over rick?
[18:31] <pmk1c> thx :)
[18:31] <rsalveti> jono_: thanks
[18:31] <jono_> oops :-)
[18:31] <jono_> fixed
[18:31] <jono_> sorry, folks
[18:31] <xnox> slangasek: but we have auto-pkg-tests! that debian doesn't =)
[18:33] <xnox> what's marios irc nickname?
[18:33] <robbiew> superm1
[18:35] <Evropi> QUESTION: what about doing QA on some important products such as Apache and nginx, and skipping QA for e.g. games?
[18:36] <xnox> jono_: well, to be honest we upload binary drivers, but not necessary install them by default.
[18:36] <llstarks> nvidia usually has new apis ready
[18:36] <llstarks> amd lags behind
[18:37] <benkaiser> amd is terrible
[18:37] <xnox> jono_:  Once we are happy with a binary driver stability we mark them as supported and ubuntu-drivers-common would install them.
[18:38] <xnox> jono_: thus in general - the _multiple_ versions are always available simultaneously. (stable, updates and experimental)
[18:38] <Evropi> I contribute to the open source arena shooter Red Eclipse (in a small way code-wise, but I'm very prominent in the community) and I'm not happy about release cycles. I understand QA on things like your web server or whatever controls the traffic lights, but honestly, for a freakin' game I just don't see the point - I want the latest to be able to play with the Windows players *easily*
[18:39] <morrom> hello
[18:39] <om26er> yo
[18:39] <morrom> where are u from?
[18:39] <jdreed> QUESTION: (Similar to the 13:26 question from hernejj)  Will there be a trivial way (e.g. via a code name, minor version number) to determine "where" in a rolling release cycle a given machine is?  (e.g. If I'm helping someone over e-mail or phone, is there anything better than "dpkg-query -W" I can use to determine what features/libraries they have?
[18:40] <morrom> ?
[18:40] <Evropi> I think this will effectively eliminate third-party packages
[18:41] <morrom> Pietro ?
[18:41] <geofft> Yes, that's one approach.
[18:41] <Evropi> as for downstream distros, they can sort that out themselves - couldn't care less (unless it's Kubuntu we're alking about)
[18:41] <xnox> jono_: they release from the ubuntu-archive.
[18:41] <geofft> Should downstream distros still stick with six-month cylces? Should they do rolling?
[18:41] <geofft> Separate organizations that aren't *ubuntu distros
[18:41] <xnox> like Mint ?
[18:41] <ogra_> yeah
[18:41] <geofft> Yeah.
[18:41] <morrom> Gnome <3
[18:42] <om26er> QUESTION: In CyanogenMod community they keep on adding new features but at the end of every month they release a snapshot of M series which they call quite stable and usable. is our monthly snapshot going to be something similar ?
[18:42] <madjr> is ok but sounds more like mad jr. but or mad j r lol :)
[18:43] <pmk1c> QUESTION: Instead of having snapshots every month wouldn't it be better, to have something like daily-delayed repos. Packages, that spend some time in daily without getting updates would be ported to the daily-delayed repos. Kind of whats happening with debian-sid and testing.
[18:43] <koolhead17> robbiew, hello sir
[18:43] <robbiew> koolhead17: hey...I saw your question
[18:43] <robbiew> if we don't get to it, I'll answer here
[18:43] <benkaiser> got to agree with you om26er, a 'most stable snapshot' of the last month would be good... Cyanogenmod is awesome
[18:43] <bcurtiswx> jono: thanks
[18:44] <koolhead17> robbiew, thanks sir. possible answer i am expecting like similar cloud repos?
[18:44] <om26er> youtube is blocked here i have to use a free proxy from the internet so the stream is very slow could anyone suggest a better solution ?
[18:44] <zyga> QUESTION: what do you think about http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/What-I-would-do-with-Ubuntu-RR-357093078 (which is made by someone else than me)
[18:45] <bcurtiswx> jono_, He did answer it, thanks :)
[18:45] <jono_> bcurtiswx, :-)
[18:45] <robbiew> koolhead17: it would be the cloud repo for the LTS and for the rolling release, we'd simply move forward as OpenStack does
[18:45] <dobey> jono_: i think he's asking about binary drivers, but each "release" would be every 2 years so it would be the same as now with sticking on LTS, no?
[18:46] <ghjj> What will happen to GNOME apps- will these just be updated every 6 months?
[18:46] <notgary> QUESTION: You say the goal is to have a converged OS with the same code running on desktop, phone, table and TV. Since the desktop is radically different from the others, does that mean the code and components present in the mobile devices will make it's way back to the desktop? In other words, will the QML versions of Unity and the core apps eventually replaces their existing desktop counterparts?
[18:47] <lool> om26er: you could download the video from youtube later perhaps?
[18:47] <ghjj> QUESTION: What about GNOME?
[18:48] <om26er> lool, yes, i guess will have to do that
[18:48] <Evropi> Qt is great, it's just that KDE seems to reimplement half the framework as KDE libs, Qt is brilliant
[18:48] <Evropi> KDE gives Qt a bad name (though KDE is a very good DE)
[18:49] <koolhead17> robbiew, thanks that solves my question
[18:49] <robbiew> koolhead17: np
[18:49] <snwh> QUESTION: What would change about the Ubuntu repositories, if at all? I assume they would have to be architectured differently, for rolling updates (and drop the animal suffix).
[18:49] <I_Am_A_Dork> You said "I am a dork" ;-P .. Thanks for answering!
[18:50] <koolhead17> robbiew, and your right we all are running OS on LTS :)
[18:50] <robbiew> ;)
[18:51] <lool> snwh: I made a diagram in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036568.html
[18:51] <lool> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20130228/62783669/attachment-0001.pdf
[18:52] <xnox> QUESTION: if I am a developer, should I target $today or Last-Monthly or Monthly-2 ? How can I compile my software against older Monthly snapshot?
[18:52] <lool> there is no place to build against monthly-2
[18:52] <lool> at least in the proposed model
[18:53] <snwh> lool, thanks
[18:53] <dobey> xnox: target current LTSes and next LTS :)
[18:54] <xnox> dobey: \o/ simples. If only we knew today what API python3.4 will have!
[18:54] <jdreed> I don't understand this idea that heterogeneity is a problem now.  It's a finite set.  I know that my users have 10.04, 11.10, 12.04 or 12.10.  That's 4 configurations, 4 sets of libraries, etc.
[18:55] <dobey> xnox: it will at least have the same API as 3.3 :)
[18:55] <lool> madjr: pointers to these appreciated!
[18:55] <lool> madjr: Could you mail them to me at lool at ubuntu.com?
[18:55] <lool> madjr: seems interesting
[18:55] <lool> madjr: or on ubuntu-devel@ if you like
[18:55] <xnox> jdreed: you missed 8.04 which is still supported.
[18:55] <Evropi> thanks for the answer :)
[18:56] <xnox> jdreed: and Raring in development.
[18:56] <dobey> xnox: or any release which is no longer supported. lots of questions on askubuntu about unsupported versions :)
[18:57] <xnox> dobey: yeah. I wish to fix update-manager to know how to upgrade by using old-releases when needed.
[18:58] <xnox> we have phased updates for that!
[18:58] <jdreed> xnox: 8.04 is no longer supported "on the desktop", and obviously I don't support something that hasn't been released.
[18:59] <xnox> jdreed: but server is, not all apps are graphical. And note that 12.04 will have 5 years desktop support.
[18:59] <jdreed> Regardless, the set is still finite.  And "update before we'll help you" doesn't really work in any sort of organization.
[18:59] <lool> pmk1c: Good question BTW
[18:59] <Evropi> The 'g' is silent in gnome...
[19:00] <geofft> xnox: IIRC, for the use case jdreed and I care about, it turned out the Kerberos components in universe weren't considered "server"
[19:01] <xnox> Evropi: maybe it should have been spelled nome then. as many speakers in many languages do not have silent 'g's
[19:01] <om26er> judging from the amount of quality updates 12.04 got as compared to 10.04 I think the situation have bettered. Now with interim releases gone I think LTS releases should get more frequent support. It might make sense to update the SRU policy
[19:01] <om26er> if interim releases gone*
[19:01] <caygri> hi!!!
[19:01] <Evropi> xnox: just a quirk of the English language, which is largely non-phonetic (phonetic = What You Hear Is What You Write)
[19:02] <om26er> like allowing the backport of new features in some cases
[19:02] <xnox> geofft: we are working on archive reorganisation to define packages sets to be more clear on what is considered "supported" software.
[19:02] <slangasek> yes, English is more foenectik
[19:02] <abelarion> thanks alot.
[19:02] <Evropi> Thank you for the show
[19:02] <roadmr> thanks!
[19:02] <geofft> Yeah, this has certainly gotten better
[19:02] <jono_> thanks everyone!
[19:02] <JoseeAntonioR> make sure to subscribe to youtube.com/UbuntuOnAir!
[19:02] <JoseeAntonioR> and follow us on twitter at twitter.com/UbuntuOnAir!
[19:03] <xnox> geofft: you can still push SRUs for packages in universe, it's just community developers need to do it.
[19:03] <geofft> xnox: sure (and I feel bad that I haven't had time to do more of that sort of thing)
[19:04] <madjr> thx guys!!
[19:19] <vinicius_> how they think about the privacy´s questions started on stallman´s post ?
[19:20] <vinicius_> they think ubuntu phone can really fight to android ?