[01:58] <shanu> how to update latest updates
[03:26] <shai_halud> so, ubuntu and jack and pulseaudio  and firefox are broken???  cannot be integrated??? what the hell
[03:26] <shai_halud> anyone out there found a way around this?
[03:26] <holstein> shai_halud: around what?
[03:26] <holstein> ubuntu is the operating system, so its already "integrating" the others
[03:27] <shai_halud> getting jack and firefox to work together with pulseaudio in ubuntu studio
[03:27] <holstein> the new pulseJACK dbus lets audio work in jack from pulse
[03:27] <shai_halud> is it the one i got from the repo?
[03:27] <holstein> shai_halud: its the one that installs with ubuntustudio
[03:27] <shai_halud> or do i need to look elsewhere? running U.S. 12.10
[03:28] <shai_halud> hm. well it doesn't work on my system
[03:28] <holstein> shai_halud: get JACK running first.. is it running?
[03:29] <shai_halud> no. i have to restart i guess, now, because the 2 programs had had this conflict. jack won't start right now
[03:29] <shai_halud> it will run fine after a reboot, as long as i leave firefox off
[03:30] <holstein> shai_halud: you dont have to do anything.. but you can if you want.. or open a terminal and run "ps aux | grep jack
[03:30] <shai_halud> i mean, jack is running, but i can't srat it
[03:30] <shai_halud> start
[03:30] <holstein> shai_halud: starting firefox crashes pulse? and kills the jack bridge?
[03:30] <holstein> shai_halud: you can "srat" it as stated above
[03:30] <shai_halud> no. jack stays working. firefox just won't work
[03:31] <shai_halud> ok
[03:31] <shai_halud> jack will not start if firefox is running first
[03:31] <holstein> shai_halud: firefox? or firefox audio? or flash ?
[03:31] <holstein> shai_halud: i wouldnt expect pulse or jack to juggle
[03:31] <shai_halud> yeah, media
[03:31] <holstein> i would choose if you want JACK or not.. get it started.. then open what you want to use
[03:31] <shai_halud> in firefox
[03:32] <holstein> i wouldnt expect to have pulse audio anything running, and have it happily switch to JACK, though i dont use the pulse to jack dbus anyway
[03:32] <shai_halud> even in that order, fireox just will not work (media i mean. regualr webpages load fine, but once i click a media link, FF crashes
[03:33] <holstein> what doesnt work?
[03:33] <holstein> all audio?
[03:33] <shai_halud> any flash in FF
[03:33] <holstein> shai_halud: flash? or audio?
[03:34] <shai_halud> well, they are both flash in the sites i use
[03:34] <shai_halud> soundcloud and youtube
[03:34] <holstein> shai_halud: that flash is out of date.. and wont *ever* be updated.. i would troubleshoot them seperately
[03:34] <holstein> shai_halud: i would do audio only in ff and test.. *not* flash..
[03:34] <shai_halud> i don't know any place to do that
[03:35] <holstein> shai_halud: open a file, locally then.. in the browser
[03:35] <shai_halud> that uses audio without flash
[03:35] <shai_halud> oh
[03:35] <shai_halud> right!
[03:35] <holstein> shai_halud: flash issues are really not something we can fix..
[03:36] <holstein> you can see here http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ the only linux version that is up to date is the chome one
[03:36] <shai_halud> any sound format?
[03:37] <shai_halud> i have .wav and .ogg close at hand. will have to hunt for an .,p3
[03:37] <shai_halud> er ,mp3
[03:37] <holstein> shai_halud: i just suggest removeing flash from the equation.. if its flash that is crashing pulse briefly and breaking things, there nothing to do about it, really
[03:37] <shai_halud> though others have solved the issue?
[03:37] <shai_halud> (i would like to know how!!)
[03:38] <holstein> shai_halud: flash has to solve its own issues.. and its EOL for us all
[03:38] <holstein> shai_halud: we are not allowed to maintain flash
[03:38] <holstein> shai_halud: just troubleshoot and make sure that its not flash that is causing the issue.. if it is, you can hit the brick wall with adobe about it.. if its not, we can get you to the proper place
[03:41] <shai_halud> firefox is playing a .wav file, but jack is running, and will not start
[03:41] <holstein> shai_halud: ?.. run the command i linked earier.. see that jack is not running.. stop *everything*
[03:41] <shai_halud> i ran the command you gave, it looks to have worked, but jack interface is dark, and patchage sgows nothing but my midi and timidity
[03:42] <shai_halud> ok i tell you what , let me reboot and start from scratch
[03:42] <shai_halud> brb
[03:42] <holstein> shai_halud: test audio with ff and pulse only.. then close ff and start jack and then open ff again and test again
[03:42] <shai_halud> then you can help me test this properly
[03:42] <shai_halud> brb
[03:45] <shai_halud> ok
[03:45] <shai_halud>  back up, nothing but xchat running
[03:46] <shai_halud> start jack first, i guess?
[03:50] <shai_halud> jack running in cli, patchage shows system capture and playback, and midi through (2 instances of port-0) and timidity ports 0-3
[03:50] <holstein> nope
[03:50] <holstein> stop jack
[03:51] <shai_halud> i closed the terminal. is that enough to stop it?
[03:51] <shai_halud>  those things are still in patchage
[03:51] <holstein> see that its not running with
[03:51] <holstein> ps aux | grep jack
[03:52] <holstein> shai_halud: usually, you'll still leave jack running in the backgound by doing that
[03:52] <shai_halud> oh. that was what i thought started it
[03:52] <holstein> shai_halud: i would hit the actual "stop" button
[03:52] <holstein> see that jack is not running
[03:52] <shai_halud> josh      2386  0.4  2.2 250060 91272 ?        SLsl 22:49   0:01 /usr/bin/jackd -T -ndefault -dalsa -dhw:0 -r44100 -p1024 -n2
[03:52] <shai_halud> josh      2452  0.0  0.0   9388   920 pts/4    S+   22:52   0:00 grep --color=auto jack
[03:53] <shai_halud> does that mean it is or isn't?
[03:53] <shai_halud> i see jackd in system monitor/processes
[03:54] <shai_halud> kill it?
[03:55] <shai_halud> closed patchage
[03:55] <holstein> kill - 2386
[03:55] <holstein> and see if its gone
[03:55] <shai_halud> run that as a command?
[03:56] <shai_halud> i tried, and got  bash: kill: : invalid signal specification
[03:56] <shai_halud> or you mean killall jackd -9
[03:57] <holstein> shai_halud: i want you to kill all jack processes
[03:57] <shai_halud> done
[03:57] <holstein> so, no jack in ps aux | grep jack?
[03:58] <holstein> then, open ff up and that .wav and see that it works with pulse only
[03:58] <shai_halud> i ran killall jackd -9 . here is output of ps aux | grep jack: josh      2460  0.0  0.0   9388   924 pts/4    S+   22:57   0:00 grep --color=auto jack
[03:59] <shai_halud> soit disappeared frmo processes
[04:00] <shai_halud> no instances of jack in processes
[04:00] <holstein> looks good.. lemme know that that file plays then
[04:00] <shai_halud> k
[04:00] <shai_halud> yes
[04:00] <holstein> then close ff.. open the qjackctl or jack control GUI and do *nothing*
[04:00] <holstein> just say "i have the gui open"and set there and let me ask you some things
[04:01] <shai_halud> jack gui open
[04:01] <shai_halud> qtjackctl
[04:01] <holstein> under the "misc" tab, you have "enable dbus" checked?
[04:01] <shai_halud> yes
[04:02] <holstein> shai_halud: what about frames/period and periods/buffer?
[04:03] <holstein> 44100?
[04:03] <shai_halud> frames/period is 1024
[04:03] <shai_halud> sample rate is 44100
[04:03] <shai_halud> periods/buffer is 2
[04:04] <holstein> ok.. try starting JAck
[04:04] <shai_halud> started fine (as usual at this point)
[04:05] <shai_halud> pulseaudio jack-module loaded as well
[04:05] <shai_halud> in patchage
[04:05] <holstein> shai_halud: ok.. see that the connections are made
[04:05] <holstein> shai_halud: open ff, but avoid flash
[04:05] <evilytwisted> sorry to spam ubu8ntu channel :/
[04:05] <holstein> just try that .wav file
[04:05] <holstein> evilytwisted: nah, its cool.. its just specific, and borderline appropriate over there
[04:06] <evilytwisted> and i really appreciate your tolerance for this issue im having
[04:06] <evilytwisted> and the fact im a complete idiot with jack
[04:06] <shai_halud> .wav will not play
[04:06] <holstein> evilytwisted: no worries. JACK is not trivial
[04:06] <shai_halud> no kidding
[04:06] <holstein> shai_halud: in what way?.. stop ff and start it fromt he terminal, and try playing it again
[04:07] <holstein> shai_halud: also, open something else and check that the pulsedbus is working...
[04:07] <shai_halud> want me to pastebin the output of cli?
[04:08] <holstein> shai_halud: if its juicy
[04:08] <shai_halud> yes
[04:08] <shai_halud> mostly stuff about totem
[04:08] <evilytwisted> holstein:  what can i do now to fix the errors ive posted:?
[04:08] <evilytwisted> or do you want me to post it again
[04:09] <shai_halud> holstein,  http://www.pastebin.ca/2326893
[04:09] <shai_halud> i get the GAIL error normally and does not interfere with FF operation
[04:09] <holstein> evilytwisted: you can post itain in case zequence or len_1304 are around
[04:09] <evilytwisted> itain?
[04:10] <holstein> it again*
[04:10] <shai_halud> another error i usually get when i open FF via cli did not appear this time:   Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_nvidia.so
[04:11] <holstein> my connection is in and out..
[04:11] <shai_halud> but i assume it is related to the GAIL error
[04:11] <shai_halud> some crap about gnome icons or something
[04:12] <holstein> well, the error should be there with Jack or not
[04:12] <evilytwisted> OK, so heres the errors im having for runing jack.. it wont connect  http://pastebin.com/nxKfZK4r  what im trying to do .. if possible is use "recordmydesktop" to record the game audio myself and skype audio at the same time.. i ve managed to record the game audio and myself but not skype audio
[04:12] <shai_halud> jack reports no errors
[04:13] <shai_halud> but FF does not play the .wav file
[04:13] <shai_halud> (position indicator of track will not move)
[04:14] <holstein> hmm....
[04:14] <holstein> shai_halud: are you up to date with upgrades?
[04:14] <shai_halud> yes
[04:15] <shai_halud> just did the ones that came late last night
[04:15] <holstein> i disable that dbus thing right off, so i have no first hand experience with it other than testing
[04:16] <shai_halud> i used to have to kill pulse with jack start just to make it work. now i have pulseaudio-jack-module installed and pulse connects automatically ( i see it in patchage)
[04:17] <shai_halud> i have never seen firefox or any thing in it connect in patchage
[04:17] <holstein> i think thats what evilytwisted will need to do
[04:17] <evilytwisted> what?
[04:18] <holstein> evilytwisted: your error states pulse is running on hw:0
[04:18] <shai_halud> install pulseaudio-jack-module?
[04:18] <evilytwisted> ok is that the name of the package?
[04:18] <evilytwisted> or no?
[04:18] <shai_halud> yes
[04:18] <holstein> does it not come automatically now?
[04:18] <shai_halud> exactly that. in synaptic
[04:18] <holstein> i thought JACK pulled it in
[04:18] <shai_halud> apparently not
[04:18] <evilytwisted> : Unable to locate package pulseaudio-jack-module
[04:19] <shai_halud> evilytwisted, are you running ubuntu-studio 12.10?
[04:19] <holstein> pulseaudio-module-jack
[04:19] <holstein> !info pulseaudio-module-jack
[04:19] <shai_halud> haha my bad
[04:19] <holstein> no worries.. i had to apt-cache search for it
[04:20] <evilytwisted> ty.. installing it
[04:20] <evilytwisted> ok its installed
[04:20] <shai_halud> didn't help me much, but.... worth a shot in the dark
[04:20] <holstein> evilytwisted: try gksudo qjackctl and hit start
[04:21] <shai_halud> is skype it's own application?
[04:21] <holstein> evilytwisted: again, you dont want to run jack as root all the time..
[04:21] <shai_halud> (i have, to this day, never used skype, or even seen it)
[04:22] <evilytwisted> http://pastebin.com/TgS1kA3f
[04:22] <holstein> shai_halud: my girlfriend uses it.. so i use it with her.
[04:22] <evilytwisted> still same errors
[04:24] <shai_halud> i have gotten everything but firefox to work with jack sofar
[04:25] <shai_halud> of course, everything else has a plugin for jack
[04:25] <evilytwisted> Not to annoy anyone.. But would it matter that im Not really using ubuntu.. But a derivative of it?  Linuxmint 14 kde...
[04:26] <shai_halud> it's still kind of ubuntu
[04:26] <holstein> hmmm.. it might matter
[04:26] <holstein> evilytwisted: not sure what they do to JACK though..
[04:26] <shai_halud>  Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_nvidia.soi can't get jack to work properly in my mint installation eigher
[04:26] <shai_halud> woops ignore the failed to load. i accidentally pasted
[04:26] <holstein> evilytwisted: i might fire up an ubuntustudio or xubuntu live CD and just try with pavucontrol.. just for troubleshooting
[04:27] <evilytwisted> i dont have anyway to fire up ubuntu studio.. Nor have a xubuntu live cd...
[04:27] <holstein> evilytwisted: at least you could get JACK running on the live CD
[04:27] <shai_halud> i never got jack working in mint either. i have it on another partition
[04:27] <holstein> evilytwisted: i was talking about live CD's for both
[04:27] <shai_halud> mint 14 nadia with MATE
[04:27] <evilytwisted> ag
[04:27] <evilytwisted> ah *
[04:28] <evilytwisted> Ill try it out
[04:28] <evilytwisted> ty for your help and sorry to bother you
[04:28] <holstein> yeah.. i had issues with it as well, on mint and derivitives.. .they dont need to care if they break jack
[04:28] <holstein> since they dont really ship it
[04:28] <shai_halud> i decided that since i was going to be doing all the media creation in ubuntu studio anyway, to focus my energies in it
[04:28] <evilytwisted> reaosn why i was asking..
[04:28] <holstein> evilytwisted: #opensourcemusicians has some mint users too
[04:28] <evilytwisted> reason why i was asking
[04:28] <evilytwisted> cause this ulseaudio-module-jack_1%3a2.1-0ubuntu4_amd64.deb)
[04:29] <evilytwisted> that stated it got it from ubuntu
[04:29] <shai_halud> evilytwisted,  if you intend to make music, you might get studio,and beef it up as much as possible.
[04:29] <holstein> yeah, but they could have done something with pulse that doesnt let JACK take over
[04:29] <evilytwisted> ah,
[04:29] <shai_halud> everything but firefox works well with jack in it, with some effort
[04:29] <holstein> maybe not intentionally
[04:29] <evilytwisted> shai_halud:  im not trying to make music..
[04:29] <shai_halud> oh
[04:29] <cfhowlett> Mixing distros can have unforeseen consequences ... so can derivatives
[04:30] <evilytwisted> all im trying to do is record screen desktop with both outputs..
[04:30] <evilytwisted> game.. myself.. and skype audio
[04:30] <evilytwisted> Like camtasia for windows
[04:30] <shai_halud> which should be possible with jack
[04:30] <holstein> evilytwisted: i would try the simpler route, with pavucontrol from a live cd.. just in case soemthing is broken in mint.. might help you tack it down
[04:30] <evilytwisted> cfhowlett:  im not adding repos to my version
[04:31] <evilytwisted> yeah
[04:31] <shai_halud> pavucontrol is now my volume control in systray
[04:31] <evilytwisted> holstein:  if that isnt it?
[04:33] <holstein> evilytwisted: i just did it
[04:33] <evilytwisted> maybe its soemthign that i did when installing this
[04:34] <evilytwisted> ill just reinstall mint
[04:34] <evilytwisted> cause im the type of person to install everything
[04:34] <evilytwisted> and anything
[04:34] <holstein> evilytwisted: http://imagebin.org/248531
[04:34] <evilytwisted> kernel panics 3 times already
[04:35] <holstein> evilytwisted: im not a mint hater... but we really cant support it in the channels, cause they do have their own thing going on
[04:36] <shai_halud> haha     "cause im the type of person to install everything and anything".... i know where you're coming from
[04:36] <evilytwisted> yeah i know holstein  i want to show you soemthing i may
[04:36] <holstein> evilytwisted: sure
[04:37] <evilytwisted> maybe i should have shown that i was in a call with someone on skype...
[04:37] <evilytwisted> but ... here http://youtu.be/yTp-vxiGpaw
[04:37] <evilytwisted> Youll see it got my audio
[04:37] <evilytwisted> the game audio
[04:37] <evilytwisted> But not skype
[04:38] <evilytwisted> and the pavucontrol was exaclty like mine
[04:38] <holstein> evilytwisted: you can route it though... in pavucontrol
[04:39] <holstein> but, JACK can route as well
[04:39] <evilytwisted> it seems like we are going in circles..
[04:39] <evilytwisted> Im trying to do that...
[04:39] <evilytwisted> But i dont know how.. and someone mentioned jack..
[04:39] <evilytwisted> SO.... i got jack...
[04:39] <evilytwisted> and it wont work
[04:40] <evilytwisted> and again.. im not trying to annoy you
[04:41] <shai_halud> thing is, for one, to figure out what skyp uses to connect to audio, i think (but i do not know)
[04:41] <holstein> evilytwisted: let me render my session
[04:41] <evilytwisted> ok
[04:42] <shai_halud> evilytwisted, one thing you can do to possibly find arros which occur is to start all these programs from a terminal. often , clues are in the output
[04:42] <evilytwisted> Ok..
[04:42] <holstein> evilytwisted: notice where my mouse is hovering
[04:42] <evilytwisted> holstein:  you never gave linkj
[04:43] <holstein> http://imagebin.org/248533
[04:43] <shai_halud> evilytwisted, use your psychotic powers
[04:43] <shai_halud> or the link, if it's easier
[04:44] <shai_halud> i miss alsa
[04:44] <evilytwisted> ok.. ill try that ty
[04:44] <holstein> shai_halud: its right there.. lubuntu has alsa only
[04:44] <shai_halud> it seems that since i installed pulseaudio module, nothing shows up as alsa anymore
[04:44] <holstein> shai_halud: i disable dbus
[04:45] <shai_halud> i have gone so far as to remove pulseaudio copletely to try and make this firefox issue go away, but then jack wouldn't start at all
[04:46] <evilytwisted> if this works ty holstein
[04:46] <evilytwisted> :D
[04:46] <holstein> ive had issues both places.. pulse works fine, and does great stuff.. i just dont need it
[04:46] <shai_halud> holstein, does your firefox play audio and flash through jack?
[04:47] <shai_halud> (my FF actually freezes completely if i try to play flash)
[04:47] <holstein> evilytwisted: its working for me.. i have the skype call in my video
[04:47] <holstein> shai_halud: it did when i tested the 12.04 and 12.10 iso's
[04:48] <shai_halud> i have to xkill FF after ward
[04:48] <evilytwisted> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pviGSXrROvA&feature=youtu.be
[04:48] <evilytwisted> i did wat you stated
[04:48] <evilytwisted> and it isnt working for me
[04:49] <holstein> evilytwisted: cool.. it works right out of the box for me, so maybe its something mint does
[04:50] <shai_halud> here's what i got in #jack channel :  <las> shai_halud: it *IS* broken on ubuntu unless you have the absolute latest pre-release versions from them   (regarding flash  through jack)
 shai_halud: there are problems with Pulse, problems with their packaging
[04:51] <holstein> evilytwisted: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/temp/out-1.ogv gotta go to the end, you'll hear the skype test call audio
[04:52] <shai_halud> he told me to go find the ubuntu package managers and get them to fix it
[04:52] <shai_halud> (at least, i think it's a he.... i think of irc users as male.... does that make me sexist, or what?
[04:52] <evilytwisted> ok holstein  It is my pc...
[04:53] <evilytwisted> cause you got yours working perfectly
[04:53] <evilytwisted> ty
[04:53] <holstein> evilytwisted: well, you know its possible at least
[04:53] <evilytwisted> Yeah
[04:53] <evilytwisted> which is amazing
[04:53] <shai_halud> holstein, you are in ubuntu studio current;y?
[04:53] <holstein> shai_halud: nah... my studio rig is off
[04:54] <shai_halud> what are you using atm?
[04:54] <holstein> shai_halud: just ubuntu that ive customized
[04:54] <shai_halud> oh
[04:54] <holstein> i have alot of audio apps.. and its openbox
[04:54] <shai_halud> what DE?
[04:54] <shai_halud> oh
[04:55] <evilytwisted> again ty for your help you 2, i really apreciate it
[04:55] <holstein> sure... anytime
[04:55] <shai_halud> as they say in spain:  el gusto es mio
[04:55] <shai_halud> (or maybe it's mexico)
[04:55] <holstein> shai_halud: openbox and tint2 panel... conky.. kupfer
[04:56] <shai_halud> sounds like you know a significan't deal more about linux than i
[04:57] <holstein> shai_halud: nah... ive just been using it a while.
[04:57] <shai_halud> i have a complex about it. me too. 12 yrs
[04:57] <evilytwisted> holstein:  are you using pulse audio when you tested recordmydesktop and skype
[04:57] <evilytwisted> or alsa?
[04:57] <holstein> evilytwisted: pulse.. thats pavucontrol
[04:57] <evilytwisted> der
[04:57] <evilytwisted> sorry
[04:58] <holstein> evilytwisted: no worries
[04:58] <shai_halud> pulse audio volume control
[04:58] <evilytwisted> Yeah thats why i said der
[04:58] <shai_halud> woops
[04:59] <shai_halud> holstien: are you australian?
[04:59] <shai_halud> my aussie friends all say "no worries"
[04:59] <evilytwisted> alot of them say mate
[04:59] <shai_halud> yes indeed
[05:00] <evilytwisted> whats the package for gui of recordmydesktop? i have it but not the gui
[05:00] <holstein> shai_halud: no, im in the US, but i have aussie friends
[05:01] <evilytwisted> crocodile dun dee?
[05:01] <holstein> !info recordmydesktop-gtk
[05:01] <evilytwisted> DOes too!
[05:01] <evilytwisted> it lies
[05:01] <shai_halud> flight of the concords:  "That's not a knife.... oh, yes it is."  turns to run
[05:01] <holstein> !info gtk-recordmydesktop
[05:01] <evilytwisted> I was about to say...
[05:02] <evilytwisted> I know very well thats a ubuntu repo package
[05:06] <evilytwisted> ty holstein  i got it working
[05:07] <sensimilla20> hello
[05:07] <shai_halud> ha nice name sensimilla
[05:07] <sensimilla20> same to you..
[05:08] <sensimilla20> :)
[05:08] <shai_halud> (it's the fremen name for sandworms
[05:08] <shai_halud> (Dune)
[05:09] <sensimilla20> so um
[05:09] <sensimilla20> i seem to be missing /usr/share/ubuntustudio-docs/
[05:10] <sensimilla20> i know most of that is available online but is there an easy to get it into my system... I had a language hiccup on install
[05:10] <sensimilla20> everything else seems to be there
[05:12] <sensimilla20> whoops
[05:12] <sensimilla20> google.
[05:12] <sensimilla20> :/
[05:12] <sensimilla20> -_- sorry
[05:13] <shai_halud> did you search already in synaptic?
[05:14] <sensimilla20> no i am not familiar with synaptic. recent windows convert. i found a ppa tho
[05:15] <holstein> shai_halud: im out... mabye ask the fellas in #opensourcemusicians about ff and pulse/jack.. or the mailing list, or zequence or len_1304 if you see them..
[05:16] <sensimilla20> ty
[05:18] <shai_halud> oholstein: ok. thanks for your help
[05:19] <shai_halud> i am at this point resigned to use one or the other and reboot in between
[05:20] <shai_halud> damn. the first thing about linux a windows user needs to know is synaptic
[05:21] <shai_halud> too bad he left before i told him
[05:21] <shai_halud> he'll figure it otu
[09:50] <zequence> holstein: That guy shai_halud seemed have been suffering from the two bugs that both 12.04 and 12.10 have, but are fixed now. 1. stopping jackdbus makes it freeze in the background, and the only way to kill it is: killall -9 jackdbus. 2. Pulseaudio doesn't let go of the audio device, and especially if it's busy doing something
[09:51] <zequence> So, the advice should be, close all applications, be it jack or PA. Kill jackdbus. Start jack, then do whatever you want
[09:52] <zequence> holstein: There's a SRU waiting to be approved for jack, and I will prepare one for PA as well
[11:53] <jbermudes> Anyone here use dvdstyler?
[12:02] <zequence> jbermudes: Don't think any of the devs do. Are you having problems with it?
[12:03] <jbermudes> zequence: Sort of. I just had some questions about custom templates if anyone has used them. Google wasn't much help in that regard
[12:09] <zequence> jbermudes: Ok. Can't tell you much about that.
[16:52] <holstein> 04:50 < zequence> holstein: That guy shai_halud seemed have been suffering from the two bugs that both 12.04 and 12.10 have,  but are fixed now. 1. stopping jackdbus makes it freeze in the background, and the only way to kill it is:  killall -9 jackdbus. 2. Pulseaudio doesn't let go of the audio device, and especially if it's busy doing  something
[16:52] <holstein> shai_halud: ^^
[16:52] <holstein> 04:51 < zequence> So, the advice should be, close all applications, be it jack or PA. Kill jackdbus. Start jack, then do  whatever you want
[16:52] <shai_halud> hello
[16:52] <holstein> 04:51 -!- TheGrey [~TheGrey__@87.115.77.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[16:52] <holstein> 04:52 < zequence> holstein: There's a SRU waiting to be approved for jack, and I will prepare one for PA as well
[16:53] <shai_halud> reDING
[16:53] <shai_halud> reading
[16:54] <zequence> shai_halud: So basically, there are a couple of bugs in your system, and the workaround is to treat jack and PA gently :)
[16:54] <shai_halud> thank you very much. what is the SRU mentioned?
[16:54] <zequence> SRU == Stable Release Update
[16:54] <zequence> Takes a while to get a patch into stable releases
[16:54] <shai_halud> oh. does zequence have something to do with these softwares?
[16:55] <zequence> Not directly. I, like holstein am a part of the Ubuntu Studio team
[16:55] <shai_halud> hi zequence
[16:55] <zequence> hi
[16:55] <shai_halud> hey,, off topic- what did you think of Shudder to Think?
[16:56] <shai_halud> Z
[16:56] <zequence> Ah, well. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid :)
[16:56] <shai_halud> and it is good to know anyone who works on the software I use on  a daily basis
[16:57] <shai_halud> thanks for all your work guys, seriously
[16:57] <zequence> Most of the work is done by the software developers, and the debian package maintainers.
[16:58] <shai_halud> so, if i understood you right, Zequence, did you say kill ps and jack, then start over by turning jack back on?
[16:58] <shai_halud> er i meant pa not ps
[16:58] <zequence> shai_halud: Yes. Kill jackdbus. That usually is enough. Sometimes you need to kill PA too. To kill jackdbus in its frozen state, you need to do the command: killall -9 jackdbus
[16:59] <zequence> Then, before starting jack again, make sure PA is not busy doing anyhing
[16:59] <zequence> Nothing should be loaded
[16:59] <zequence> Like a youtube video, even if its paused
[16:59] <shai_halud> so i can safely kill all pa processes?
[17:00] <zequence> Just close any application that uses PA
[17:00] <shai_halud> oh
[17:00] <zequence> To make things easy, just close all applications
[17:00] <shai_halud> right
[17:00] <shai_halud> well, i am afraid i have tried this approach to no avail
[17:00] <shai_halud> that is the first thing i did
[17:01] <shai_halud> for instancem restarting
[17:01] <zequence> shai_halud: If you can't start jack, even when PA is not busy, then you need to suspend PA when starting jack
[17:02] <shai_halud> i can start jack with pa running
[17:02] <shai_halud> er
[17:02] <zequence> shai_halud: Always make sure you killed jackdbus after an unsuccesful start, or it might be frozen in the background
[17:02] <shai_halud>  i mean, when it is present in processes. it is just media in firefox that is the problem
[17:02] <shai_halud> media of any kind, be it local or web based
[17:02] <shai_halud> audio or flash
[17:02] <zequence> shai_halud: Yes. When PA is busy doing something, it's very difficult to start jack
[17:03] <zequence> This is due to a bug in PA
[17:03] <shai_halud> that is what i have been told
[17:03] <zequence> See, PA is holding your audio device. When you start jack, jack tries to grab it, but PA won't let go
[17:03] <zequence> If PA is busy, the chance for succeding is smaller
[17:03] <shai_halud> is there an appraoch , a way to make all this work with only alsa?
[17:04] <zequence> Sure, but do you need to?
[17:04] <shai_halud> just wondering if it would make things simpler
[17:04] <zequence> jack will work fine, with PA running alongside
[17:04] <zequence> If you do it the right way
[17:04] <zequence> I'm going to start a PPA for adressing these bugfixes
[17:04] <shai_halud> i have read every single link on the google results for "making firefox work with jack and routing firefox through jack
[17:05] <zequence> That would solve the problem
[17:05] <zequence> shai_halud: It's not hard to do
[17:05] <zequence> shai_halud: First, start jack. Look in Connect. You should see a PA sink and source
[17:05] <zequence> shai_halud: Then, in PA mixer, choose jack as the output, instead of whatever audio device
[17:06] <zequence> shai_halud: Start firefox. The audio is now routed through jack
[17:06] <zequence> !proaudio
[17:06] <zequence> That's a page I wrote talking a bit about the audio systems on Ubuntu Studio
[17:06] <shai_halud> k
[17:06] <shai_halud> looking in qtjackctl now
[17:07] <zequence> shai_halud: I mention how the jack PA integration works at the bottom of the page
[17:07] <shai_halud> hm. pulseaudio module is not loaded atm
[17:08] <shai_halud> usually it loads when i start jack
[17:08] <shai_halud> (looking for it in patchage too)
[17:08] <zequence> Yes, but if you've restarted a couple of times, it may get lost somehow
[17:08] <zequence> I mean, restarted jack
[17:09] <zequence> shai_halud: Make sure dbus is enabled in Qjackctl -> Setup -> Misc
[17:09] <shai_halud> it is
[17:09] <zequence> Ok, so try loggin out and in again
[17:10] <zequence> A fresh session should work fine
[17:10] <shai_halud> ok. let me save some files rq. brb
[17:12] <shai_halud> ok. logged out and in and jacd comes on auto in processes
[17:13] <zequence> shai_halud: You saying that jack was already running?
[17:13] <shai_halud> jackd id 7850 is running
[17:14] <shai_halud> er 7580
[17:14] <zequence> jackd? not jackdbus?
[17:14] <shai_halud> correct
[17:14] <shai_halud> process name is jackd
[17:14] <zequence> Well, it shouldn't be running, and I'm curious how it could be after you logged out
[17:14] <zequence> If you didn't start it, that is
[17:15] <shai_halud> i did not
[17:16] <shai_halud> should i do a reboot and see if it comes on with startup?  (btw, i have not found the "startup applications" yet in the ubuntu studio gui. does it exist?)
[17:17] <holstein> http://xubuntugeek.blogspot.com/2011/12/add-application-to-xfcexubuntu-session.html
[17:18] <shai_halud> so kill jackd?
[17:18] <zequence> shai_halud: Have you added any PPAs to the system?
[17:18] <shai_halud> not sure. what does that stand for. i have added a bunch of things to try and solve this issue
[17:19] <holstein> !ppas
[17:19] <zequence> shai_halud: May I recommend you to visit here, or our help wiki next time :)
[17:19] <zequence> Or post on the user mail list
[17:19] <shai_halud> i have added only things from the repo except for making an asoundrc file myself
[17:20] <zequence> shai_halud: What are you using the asoundrc for?
[17:20] <shai_halud> to try and route all audio through alsa
[17:20] <zequence> shai_halud: I'd disable that
[17:20] <zequence> Really, the default installation of Ubuntu Studio has all of this working
[17:21] <zequence> Granted, we aren't making a great job of making this apparent to users
[17:21] <shai_halud> if that was the case i'd never have gone fooling with it
[17:21] <zequence> It is the case. It's just that jack and PA are a bit buggy
[17:22] <shai_halud> ok. removing the asoundrc file
[17:23] <zequence> shai_halud: Try a reboot, and let's see if jackd is running then (it's a user space app, and should not be running if you log out)
[17:23] <shai_halud> brb
[17:25] <shai_halud> jackd did not come on
[17:26] <zequence> Ok. Weird it was on before :)
[17:26] <zequence> shai_halud: So, try starting jack with qjackctl
[17:26] <shai_halud> dbus-daemon is
[17:26] <zequence> When you do that, it won't start jackd, but jackdbus - by default. jackd would conflict with jackdbus also
[17:26] <zequence> Then look in Connect, and see if the PA sink and source appeared
[17:27] <shai_halud> no
[17:27] <zequence> shai_halud: Is jackd2 installed, or jackd1? Try, in a terminal: sudo apt-get install jackd2
[17:28] <zequence> jackd2 is the default
[17:28] <zequence> jack1 does not support dbus interaction, so the PA module won't work with jack1
[17:28] <shai_halud> unable to locate package lack2d
[17:29] <shai_halud> jack2d
[17:29] <zequence> jackd2
[17:29] <shai_halud> shit
[17:29] <shai_halud> one sec
[17:29] <holstein> shai_halud: lets keep it a "family show" in here :)
[17:29] <shai_halud> jackd2 is already newest vers
[17:30] <shai_halud> woops. soory guys and gals
[17:31] <zequence> I can perfectly understand any frustration caused by this :). While it's simple enough, it's hard to point your finger at the problem, when you don't know it yet
[17:31] <zequence> shai_halud: So, if you do: ps -eo comm | grep jack
[17:31] <zequence> Which jack do you see?
[17:32] <shai_halud> qjackctl
[17:32] <shai_halud> qjackctl.real
[17:32] <shai_halud> jackdbus
[17:32] <zequence> shai_halud: Make sure pulseaudio-module-jack is installed: sudo apt-get install pulseaudio-module-jack
[17:32] <zequence> It's installed by default
[17:32] <shai_halud> i had to install it myself
[17:33] <shai_halud> it is
[17:33] <zequence> It's preinstalled on Ubuntu Studio
[17:33] <shai_halud> usually it loads with qtjackctl
[17:34] <zequence> shai_halud: try this: pactl load-module module-jackdbus-detect
[17:34] <shai_halud> (ubuntu stidio 12.10 here)
[17:34] <zequence> That's how you load the module manually
[17:35] <shai_halud> module initialization failed
[17:35] <zequence> In /etc/pulse/default.pa there's a line for it
[17:35] <shai_halud>  no reason given
[17:35] <zequence> shai_halud: Try unloading it first, and make sure you get the syntax right
[17:35] <zequence> pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect
[17:36] <shai_halud> then try load again?
[17:36] <zequence> If it didn't complain, that means the module was in fact loaded
[17:36] <zequence> And you can now load it again
[17:36] <shai_halud> failed to load
[17:36] <shai_halud> did not complain on unload
[17:37] <zequence> If there's no module to unload, it will say so
[17:37] <zequence> Like so "Failed to unload module: Module module-jackdbus-detect not loaded"
[17:37] <shai_halud> and it didn't.
[17:37] <shai_halud> but it is still failing to load
[17:38] <shai_halud> which is unusual
[17:38] <zequence> Sure the load command is right now?
[17:38] <shai_halud> c/p from here
[17:38] <zequence> What else have you changed? Have you altered any other alsa config files, or PA configs maybe?
[17:38] <shai_halud> josh@josh-Inspiron-1545:~$ pactl load-module module-jackdbus-detect
[17:38] <shai_halud> Failure: Module initialization failed
[17:39] <zequence> shai_halud: Do you have the live DVD somewhere?
[17:40] <shai_halud> i have the image. i used usb to install
[17:40] <zequence> Try booting the live session. Start jack. Make sure the sink and source are there. Open PA mixer and choose jack as output
[17:40] <zequence> Then try firefox. flash won't be installed of course
[17:41] <zequence> That's OOTB. It should work, unless jack fails to grab the card from PA. But it seems you don't have problems as long as PA is not busy
[17:41] <shai_halud> OOTB?
[17:42] <zequence> out of the box
[17:42] <shai_halud> oh right
[17:42] <shai_halud> ok. brb
[18:31] <shai_halud> greetings
[18:32] <SonikkuAmerica> Hello, and welcome to Ubuntu Studio support.
[18:32] <zequence> shai_halud: How did things go?
[18:32] <shai_halud> zequence: when i came back from live session, my system was borked. re-installed ubuntu, now updating
[18:33] <zequence> shai_halud: Did you try the PA bridge?
[18:33] <shai_halud> nothing was in jack but midi through
[18:34] <shai_halud> after update reboot i will try again
[18:35] <shai_halud> fresh install here, so, it will be easier for you to guide me through whatever
[18:35] <shai_halud> at least we know no ppa's will be interfering, nor user-set modofications
[18:37] <zequence> shai_halud: If there was nothing in jack, jack would have failed to start
[18:37] <shai_halud> i mean, midi through is all there was
[18:37] <shai_halud> in alsa tab
[18:37] <shai_halud> of connect
[18:38] <zequence> shai_halud: If anything, this tells us we should work harder on making users understand how the audio stuff works :)
[18:38] <shai_halud> i do not deny that
[18:38] <shai_halud> (or my own ineptitude)
[18:38] <Haohmaru> is there some trick to browse only monospaced fonts?
[18:38] <Haohmaru> (in a font selector dialog)
[18:39] <shai_halud> brb. first update restart
[18:56] <josh_> ok. back from install and updates complete
[18:59] <shai_halud> zequence: still around?
[19:01] <zequence> shai_halud: Yep
[19:01] <shai_halud> ok. got a freshboy here
[19:01] <shai_halud> "freshbox"
[19:02] <zequence> shai_halud: So, I suppose you know the drill with qjackctl. Make sure the correct audio device is chosen (if you have more than one)
[19:02] <zequence> Then start jack with it
[19:02] <shai_halud> i have only 1 sound card i this laptop, afaik
[19:03] <zequence> shai_halud: hdmi?
[19:03] <zequence> That would be a second audio device
[19:03] <shai_halud> no
[19:03] <shai_halud> jack gu runnng
[19:03] <shai_halud> gu
[19:03] <shai_halud>  g u i
[19:03] <zequence> So, any PA sink and source in Connect?
[19:04] <zequence> Oh, you mean qjackctl running
[19:04] <shai_halud> correct
[19:04] <zequence> So, start jack. Then look in Connect
[19:04] <shai_halud> whoa
[19:04] <shai_halud> there it is
[19:04] <shai_halud> confirmed
[19:05] <zequence> shai_halud: So, now. Go to the volume applet, and open the mixer
[19:05] <zequence> I guess it's called "settings" or something like that
[19:05] <zequence> It's really an application called "pavucontrol"
[19:05] <shai_halud> i can open that from cli
[19:05] <zequence> Yeah, that works too
[19:06] <shai_halud> k sink is in output, source is in input
[19:06] <zequence> You'll need to set the jack as default in "Output Devices"
[19:06] <zequence> It's the green "v"
[19:07] <zequence> "Set as Fallback", if you hover over it
[19:07] <shai_halud> that is something i never did\
[19:07] <zequence> So, now, if you start any application that supports PA, the audio is routed to jack
[19:07] <shai_halud> no one ever told me to click the little green box....
[19:08] <shai_halud> sheesh. are you sayng that now, even firefox will work ?
[19:08] <zequence> shai_halud: Also, you can choose the output for each individual PA app, in "Playback"
[19:08] <zequence> Any audio from firefox is just another PA application
[19:08] <zequence> So, yes
[19:09] <zequence> shai_halud: You might want to install ubuntu-restricted-extras, to get all the bad codecs
[19:09] <shai_halud> do i need to enabcal partners or anything?le canoni
[19:10] <shai_halud> dang... do i need to enable canonical partners or anything?
[19:10] <zequence> Nope
[19:10] <shai_halud> k
[19:10] <zequence> Canonical partners has apps like Adobe Acrobar Reader, and Skype
[19:10] <shai_halud> synaptic or will apt-get be fine?
[19:10] <zequence> apt-get will work
[19:11] <zequence> synaptic is sort of a gui variant of apt
[19:11] <zequence> So, the names are the same
[19:11] <shai_halud> right
[19:11] <shai_halud> k
[19:11] <shai_halud> this also i never did
[19:12] <shai_halud> (installing these drivers
[19:12] <zequence> What you get is things like flash, and some codecs
[19:12] <zequence> no drivers, I don't think
[19:12] <shai_halud> er, that
[19:12] <zequence> You even get a MS font
[19:12] <shai_halud> whoopeee
[19:12] <shai_halud> (chuckle)
[19:13] <zequence> Sorry you had such problems with the audio bit
[19:13] <zequence> Glad it's working now
[19:13] <shai_halud> now i visit yt
[19:13] <shai_halud> ....dum da da dum
[19:14] <shai_halud> omgomgomg
[19:14] <shai_halud> IT'S WORKING
[19:14] <shai_halud> ahhhh
[19:15] <shai_halud> U DE MAN ZEE
[19:15] <shai_halud> thank you sir
[19:16] <zequence> :)
[19:16] <shai_halud> i bet i wasted... oh, 15 hrs trying to do/make/install/confiigure the outcome of what you just showed me in about 90 seconds
[19:17] <shai_halud> the little green check box (facepalm)
[19:18] <zequence> The module should make PA set jack as output. That would save a lot of pain
[19:18]  * shai_halud sighs with relief
[19:18] <zequence> I'll be trying to get that in for future releases
[19:18] <shai_halud> All Hail Zequence!
[19:18] <shai_halud> (crowd roars)
[19:19]  * zequence gets surprised and tries to find a place to hide
[19:19] <shai_halud> what, no autographs? no afterparty?
[19:20] <shai_halud> alright. beautiful. now i can actually listen to the music people want to show me whilst i work on my own
[19:20] <shai_halud> so Zequence, what exactly IS you cup o' tea when it comes to music?
[19:21] <zequence> shai_halud: Anything awesome that sticks out. Usually something with a bit of rhythm. Not too plain harmonies. That'll bore me quickly
[19:21] <zequence> Right now, I like listening to Aphex Twin
[19:22] <shai_halud> i have never listened. name an awesome song for me
[19:22] <shai_halud> i do like their name
[19:23] <shai_halud> I'm a radiohead fan myself
[19:23] <shai_halud> big time
[19:23] <zequence> It's just one guy
[19:23] <zequence> From Wales I think
[19:23] <shai_halud> oh *his
[19:23] <zequence> Radiohead I like too
[19:26] <zequence> shai_halud: This is an old classic, but Aphex Twin has made a lot of music, and a lot of it is fairly experimental https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-Y0T60MwBc4#t=231s
[19:26] <shai_halud> tortoise, pay-per-frog, heypenny, mikky ekko, beatles, tomahawk, deftones, mr bungle, frank zappa,  jethro tull, bjork, tori amos, ben fold five, king crimson,
[19:26] <zequence> This would be more easy listening
[19:26] <shai_halud> those are some faves that come to mind
[19:27] <shai_halud> listening now
[19:27] <zequence> I'm only familiar with Frank Zappa and Bjork out of those
[19:27] <shai_halud> haha what an ugly dude in the limo
[19:27] <shai_halud> but man he can dance
[19:28] <zequence> He doesn't look like that for real
[19:28] <shai_halud> right
[19:28] <shai_halud> HA
[19:28] <zequence> He likes doing ugly
[19:28] <shai_halud> it appears he rubs off on his women
[19:28] <shai_halud> oh, and music of this style- jensen sportag
[19:29] <shai_halud> some friends of mine from nashville tenn who make dance/club music
[19:30] <shai_halud> you already heard the one track i made in lmms, i think, "invitation"
[19:30] <shai_halud> i like his time augments
[19:31] <shai_halud> (aphex twin, i mean)
[19:32] <zequence> I don't have much up, but this is some experimentation I did with pure data. The pieces are called autopoiesis, greek for self creation. It's programming and some random functions, plus I did some after processing in Audacity https://soundcloud.com/zequence
[19:32] <zequence> I guess I like this one the best https://soundcloud.com/zequence/sets/autopoiesis-1
[19:33] <zequence> I started out with death metal, and also classical music
[19:33] <shai_halud> pure data?
[19:33] <zequence> pure data is a graphical programming environment
[19:33] <zequence> You have it on Ubuntu Studio
[19:33] <shai_halud> oh. i see
[19:34] <zequence> It's great for doing live stuff
[19:34] <zequence> You can pretty quickly create your own audio FX on it
[19:34] <shai_halud> geez. it's ... a white screen
[19:34] <zequence> You opened a new project?
[19:34] <zequence> Of, file..
[19:35] <zequence> What you see is a white canvas
[19:35] <shai_halud> with a cursor that doensn't ype
[19:35] <shai_halud> type
[19:35] <zequence> You can check out some examples in the help browser
[19:35] <zequence> You'll find it in the help menu
[19:35] <shai_halud> k
[19:36] <shai_halud> using greek for the name was a fine choice. this is definitely greek to me
[19:36] <zequence> hehe. Well, they aren't really meant for listening
[19:36] <zequence> Just trying some stuff out
[19:37] <zequence> Didn't put too much time on details
[19:38] <shai_halud> it is quite interesting. so youhave no idea what i will sound like until you export it as an audio file?
[19:38] <zequence> I do know, cause I program it while I'm playing it
[19:38] <shai_halud> oh
[19:38] <zequence> And then when I like what I hear, I record it
[19:38] <zequence> Like you would if you were recording to tape
[19:39] <shai_halud> does PA produce sounds as well as graph them?
[19:39] <shai_halud> er PD
[19:39] <zequence> You can create synths with it, or use samples, and play them
[19:40] <zequence> Do any kind of processing, but you need to build the FX
[19:40] <shai_halud>  imight look into thatat some point. for now i'll stick with what i understand- lmms
[19:41] <zequence> Takes a while to get into it. A couple of months maybe. There are some nice tutorials on youtube
[19:41] <shai_halud> i am hearing something cool right now... cannot locate its source
[19:42] <shai_halud> i think it was autopoiesis still playing
[19:42] <shai_halud> ok. yeah
[19:43] <shai_halud> that has serious potential. the clubs i went to in LA played this type pf stuff
[19:45] <shai_halud> oh, and how could i have forgotten to mention NIN!!!?
[19:46] <shai_halud> IMO- the best of industrial/vocal bands
[19:48] <GCTA> NIN are pussies
[19:48] <shai_halud> haha
[19:48] <shai_halud> ever seen them live?
[19:48] <GCTA> not while playing
[19:48] <GCTA> i have seen recordings
[19:48] <shai_halud> trent is a BEAST
[19:49] <GCTA> trent is an emo lil biatch
[19:49] <shai_halud> lmoa
[19:49] <ubuFeucht> hi i am new here an iam searching for expert guru around nuernberg @ germany
[19:49] <ubuFeucht> any help here?
[19:49] <shai_halud> GCTA: ow me your music that is better
[19:49] <shai_halud> er show me*
[19:50] <GCTA> its all gone
[19:50] <GCTA> all gone
[19:50] <shai_halud> well darn
[19:50] <shai_halud> you have no proof, i am afraid
[19:50] <shai_halud> case closed
[19:50] <GCTA> prrof of what? i never claimed i am better than trent, i simply said trent is emo
[19:51] <shai_halud> do you know him personally? citations needed
[19:53] <shai_halud> my opinion is that he has made some of the best music I ever heard
[19:53] <GCTA> wow touchy
[19:55] <shai_halud> ruiner. reptile. march of the pigs. FTW
[19:59] <shai_halud> trent did something not many bands do. he created a signature sound, even a signature progression, that sets his music apart, and became part of what we understand as the culture of modern music
[20:00] <shai_halud> kind of like what pink floyd did with their genre
[22:45] <sirriffsalot> Hey, I am adding the PPA ppa:kxstudio-team/ppa to make use of zita-ajbridge, but when I check the update manager, I get this "Not all updates can be installed" error.. which I know often messes systems up terribly.. It suggests to run a partial upgrade, but I wanna stick to 12.04. Any ideas on a solution here? Why am I getting this all of a sudden with the new ppa?
[22:48] <zequence> sirriffsalot: That's really not a Ubuntu Studio issue, more of a KXstudio one. But, I wouldn't be worried about that message
[22:48] <zequence> sirriffsalot: There are two ways to upgrade
[22:48] <sirriffsalot> zequence: I would.. that message has screwed my system twice
[22:49] <sirriffsalot> zequence: I mean, the normal security updates are all marked and available fine, but under the kxstudio sections, lots of packages are automatically unmarked
[22:49] <zequence> There's the safe way, which is really just about not removing any packages. Sometimes an upgrade will remove stuff
[22:49] <zequence> And then there's the normal way, where the stuff that isn't needed anymore is removed
[22:50] <zequence> If you do, in a termina: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
[22:50] <zequence> That's the safe way
[22:50] <sirriffsalot> zequence: I don't want to upgrade mate.. I like to stick with 12.04
[22:50] <sirriffsalot> zequence: using E17, which works best with 12.04 ;)
[22:50] <zequence> If you do: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, that's the other way
[22:50] <sirriffsalot> Hmm.. what does upgrade do?
[22:50] <zequence> sirriffsalot: It won't upgrade to another release, or another desktop
[22:51] <zequence> upgrade is really what you would normally refer to as an update
[22:51] <zequence> sirriffsalot: If you only want to upgrade all existing packages on your system, you'd do: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[22:52] <zequence> That will upgrade everything
[22:52] <zequence> updating to a newer release is not done with apt
[22:52] <zequence> The update manager does the same thing really
[22:52] <zequence> I think partial upgrade is: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[22:52] <zequence> If I'm not mixing the two up
[22:52] <sirriffsalot> Uhmm.. dist-upgrade is new release update..
[22:52] <sirriffsalot> Yes you are lol
[22:52] <sirriffsalot> Be careful!!
[22:53] <sirriffsalot> :)
[22:53] <zequence> No, dist-upgrade is not a new release update
[22:53] <sirriffsalot> dist=distribution no?
[22:53] <zequence> Nope
[22:53] <sirriffsalot> What's it stand for?
[22:53] <zequence> If you do a release upgrade, you'd use a script called do-release-upgrade
[22:54] <zequence> I haven't checked, but I'm telling you with 100% certainty, that it won't mess up your system. Unless of course the PPA you have will mess up your system
[22:54] <zequence> That's another issue all together
[22:55] <zequence> As I just told you, upgrade will leave your system untouched, while dist-upgrade will remove some stuff taht is obsolete
[22:55] <zequence> By untouched, I mean not removing things that have become obsolete
[22:56] <zequence> When you do apt-get upgrade, you'll sometimes see a message saying, these packages are held back
[22:56] <zequence> That's usually cause they want to change your system a little
[22:56] <zequence> And upgrade won't let you do that
[22:56] <zequence> So, upgrade is not a full update
[22:57] <zequence> dist-upgrade is
[22:57] <zequence> And the term "partial upgrade" is a little misleading
[22:57] <zequence> as is "dist-upgrade"
[22:58] <sirriffsalot> Should be cleared up..
[22:58] <sirriffsalot> zequence: anyway I would prefer not to have the PPA and get the singular built package I want instead.. is that an option? wget perhaps? :)
[22:59] <zequence> If you have a high security server installation, you might not just want to hit dist-upgrade, cause you might actually be doing something useful with obsolete stuff
[22:59] <zequence> sirriffsalot: You might be able to just install the one for raring
[22:59] <sirriffsalot> Procrastinating getting into how to cherry-pick packages from ppa's
[23:00] <sirriffsalot> Is there a way to figure out what is actually causing that message to appear when I add that ppa?
[23:01] <zequence> I'm a bit lazy. I don't usually read text when I don't need to :O
[23:01] <zequence> :P*
[23:01] <zequence> zita-zjbridge and zita-resampler are availabe for raring
[23:02] <zequence> Ah, this is needed too libzita-resampler1
[23:02] <zequence> I would start by installing that
[23:02] <sirriffsalot> Raring?:P
[23:03] <zequence> After a quick look, it seems the dependencies are ok
[23:03] <zequence> Ubuntu 13.04
[23:03] <sirriffsalot> o.O
[23:03] <zequence> The development version
[23:03] <sirriffsalot> I'm not trying the development version if any what are you on about? O:O
[23:04] <sirriffsalot> zequence: you're scaring me, haha :)
[23:06] <zequence> sirriffsalot: It's not as dramatic as it sounds. The packages in Ubuntu are mostly imported directly from Debian.
[23:06] <zequence> And they stay the way they are, mostly, until final release
[23:07] <sirriffsalot> zequence: yeah, #ardour guys got me there..
[23:07] <zequence> So, it's not like they are really experimental or anything
[23:07] <sirriffsalot> But not all of them are there
[23:07] <zequence> sirriffsalot: What's missing?
[23:08] <sirriffsalot> In debian?
[23:08] <sirriffsalot> Oh, no, sorry. Someone mentioned that it was a bad idea to mix repositories.. which sounds reasonable
[23:16] <zequence> sirriffsalot: It's not a good thing to do, unless you know what you are doing. But, you can always download the debs, and install them manually
[23:17] <zequence> The more dependencies, the harder that gets
[23:17] <sirriffsalot> I did that with uhm.. something!
[23:17] <sirriffsalot> And then I pro-ly saved copies into my external backup hdd *shades*
[23:18] <sirriffsalot> Anyway, ok
[23:18] <sirriffsalot> Might as well do that t hen
[23:18] <sirriffsalot> Not that many here was it?
[23:19] <sirriffsalot> was there*
[23:19] <sirriffsalot> in this instance*
[23:19] <sirriffsalot> Might as well have re-done the whole sentence*
[23:23] <CryptSphinx> Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask , has anyone had any recent experience with an alesis multimix 16 fiwire and Ubuntu studio?
[23:33] <studio-user389> is blender as task as it looks?
[23:33] <GCTA> ?
[23:34] <GCTA> its more time consuming than difficult if thats what ur asking
[23:35] <studio-user389> well it looks greek
[23:39] <studio-user389> looks g so far
[23:39] <studio-user389> lrt
[23:47] <sirriffsalot> zequence: http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/sound/zita-ajbridge
[23:47] <sirriffsalot> zequence: doesn't seem to difficult
[23:48] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Yes, but it has dependencies, so make sure you either have them already, or you get them and istall them first
[23:49] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Looks like the only dependencies you need to worry about are the zita ones
[23:50] <sirriffsalot> zequence: yeah, getting all
[23:50] <sirriffsalot> zequence: will I have to follow each one back to the first dependency and work my way up?
[23:54] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Yeah
[23:54]  * sirriffsalot braces himself
[23:55] <sirriffsalot> zequence: haha.. I only needed one
[23:56] <sirriffsalot> libzita-alsa-pcmi0 ... had the dependencies for that too
[23:56] <sirriffsalot> *wipes forehead*
[23:58] <zequence> sirriffsalot: Just like disarming a nuke?