[02:30] <skellat> Is there a link anywhere to go back and watch today's Ubuntu On Air talking about the Rolling Release proposal?  I had to be out doing errands.
[02:31] <Unit193> Is there not a channel on YouTube?
[02:32] <pleia2> skellat: see ubuntuonair.com
[02:33] <skellat> Ah, so this would be the link I can come back to later then I take it: http://youtu.be/z04ndWaVfJs
[02:34] <skellat> Oy.  There's an hour of it talking about rolling release?  Crap.  I'll watch that after I get a good night's sleep.
[02:35] <pleia2> yeah, looks like they explain it and then do lots of Q&A
[02:35] <pleia2> (I had work today, and tonight I am going to watch movies, it's been a long week :))
[02:36] <skellat> I was running errands, had to finally break down and buy a printer, and tend to business
[02:36] <skellat> Yeah, I'll watch it tomorrow
[02:36] <skellat> I may very well remark on it in The Burning Circle
[02:36] <skellat> How badly received is my small bit that showed up on the planet?
[02:37] <pleia2> I haven't heard anything
[02:38] <pleia2> lots of opinions floating around right now
[02:39] <skellat> I know
[02:39] <skellat> #kubuntu-devel has provided many insights just from watching it
[02:39] <skellat> But I gotta get back to breaking in that new printer.  Have a good night pleia2...
[02:39]  * skellat wanders off
[02:39] <pleia2> good luck
[03:35] <bluesabre> I've fixed a few things in lp:catfish-search, anybody want to do some light testing to make sure I didn't break anything before I do 0.6.1 release?  :-)
[03:37] <Len-nb> Whats the ppa again? I reinstalled the OS.
[03:43] <bluesabre> It's not in the PPA at the moment, since I moved away from quickly, its not packaged
[03:43] <bluesabre> but you can easily grab it with
[03:43] <bluesabre> bzr branch lp:catfish-search
[03:43] <bluesabre> I'm heading to bed
[03:44] <bluesabre> be back tomorrow
[06:23] <Len-nb> bluesabre, Seems to work ok. anything I tried. Wild cards don't seem to work on an sftp directory. Ok on the local drive.
[06:24] <Len-nb> searched for png works on sftp dir *.png doesn't but works local.
[06:25] <Len-nb> Searched for png in /usr/share/ in both cases
[06:31] <Len-nb> My mistake, I was searching in two different places, my remote machine is a server, the icons directory appears empty. It was the cups directory I was seeing.
[06:31] <Len-nb> Wild cards work in both places.
[09:19] <knome> hrmph, i just had this clear moment and i understood that if ubuntu moves to a rolling release model, they need to support 12.10 to 14.04 updates, or make anybody on 12.10 start using the rolling updates
[09:38] <knome> hmm, watching the video from the hangout
[09:39] <knome> why weren't members of edubuntu, ubuntu studio and xubuntu invited to the chat?
[09:39] <knome> only people from mythtv and kubuntu
[09:40] <bluesabre> Actually, considering that the kubuntu folks are actually being sponsored by another company, that might not be a bad thing
[09:41] <zequence> Was anyone invitie
[09:41] <zequence> ?
[09:41] <zequence> I was there, but found about it on G+
[09:42] <knome> bluesabre, no. micah has been talking about that tentatively
[09:42] <zequence> Didn't think about telling you guys
[09:42] <knome> i *knew* about the session
[09:42] <zequence> I let others know on US, but only I attended
[09:42] <knome> jono just said that some people were invited to join the hangout itself i understood
[09:43] <knome> zequence, what do you think about the ubuntu sdk?
[09:44] <zequence> knome: I've tried getting it to work without success a couple of times, so that perhaps tells you a story
[09:44] <zequence> I think they have some problems in many areas really
[09:44] <knome> they clearly want people to start using their stuff to keep them on ubuntu by telling them "we can guarantee you your app won't break"
[09:44] <zequence> I bought some music on ubuntuone over a month ago, and am still waiting for either the music or a refund
[09:45] <zequence> I'm unable to sync a big folder on ubuntuuone too. Been on it for two days now, trying to upload it, with decent bandwidth
[09:45] <zequence> I've seen problems with other clients too, on Android for instance
[09:46] <zequence> If it's going to be like that when they start selling the phone, won't matter how good it looks
[09:46] <knome> uff
[09:46] <bluesabre> yeah, ubuntuone has some inherent issues, but not sure if thats what knome means by the ubuntu-sdk
[09:46] <knome> no, that's not it
[09:46] <zequence> I wasn't referring to the sdk when talking about ubuntuone
[09:47] <zequence> I did try to install the sdk, but wasn't able to. And after I finally was, I couldn't get a simple example to work
[09:47] <zequence> The first sort of "hello world" example they have on developer.ubuntu.com
[09:48] <zequence> At first look, it looks like they aren't aiming at Java, so that's good
[09:49] <zequence> From what I understand, the first phone versions will be less convergent, but eventually, it'll be like a PC
[09:49] <zequence> How much so, I don't know
[09:49] <zequence> It's the same OS anyway
[09:50] <zequence> And as long as the user has the freedom to install what they want on the phone, that will be the important thing for me
[09:50] <knome> phones are going towards being more like pc's anyway
[09:51] <zequence> Yes, but this one will be more like the actual Ubuntu PC
[09:52] <bluesabre> knome, I'm curious about why we think a rolling-release model would be harmful to xubuntu?
[09:59] <knome> bluesabre, you'd have to discuss more with micah
[10:00] <bluesabre> are there any general details beyond updated packages?
[10:02] <knome> general detail regarding xubuntu or rolling release+
[10:02] <bluesabre> I guess more on the xubuntu side.  Everyone seems kind of bummed out about it, but I'm not sure why.
[10:03] <zequence> Initially, I can understand being disappointed when working for a release for almost half a year, and not being told in advance that it might not be releases
[10:04] <zequence> released*
[10:04] <knome> bluesabre, my main concern is the way it's communicated to the community.
[10:04] <zequence> Also, it seems like the rolling release is intended for developers first, which is not what flavors want
[10:04] <zequence> Other than Ubuntu, of course
[10:06] <bluesabre> Right.  But effectively, aren't the non-LTS releases just stable development checkpoints between LTS's?  "If you want a stable release, use LTS"
[10:06] <knome> bluesabre, i believe that is more true in the ubuntu desktop reality than flavors
[10:07] <zequence> Definately, yes
[10:08] <knome> zequence, can you remember if there was anything interesting for the flavors in the last 10 minutes? 
[10:08] <zequence> Might be slight differences. Edubuntu used Unity. We use XFCE, like Xubuntu and rely on Xubuntu. Kubuntu is the larges group, and are probably least affected by what is happening in Unity
[10:09] <zequence> knome: I'm not against a rolling release, as long as we get power to influence
[10:09] <knome> zequence, that's most definitely the first requirement for the change to be succesful from the community point of view
[10:10] <zequence> We want stability, and for that we need some way of ensuring stability. I'm thinking different layers of repos, and from my point of view, there's no other good way of dealing with it
[10:11] <Unit193> I'd be alright with it if it is stable enough.  With Unity and Gnome GTK3, they may change other things (indicators, for example) that do end up affecting Xubuntu and Xfce in Ubuntu.
[10:11] <zequence> Ubuntu needs to be careful with system core libs, anything that can mess up things for others
[10:11] <zequence> I don't think it's ok for them to release r.c versions of kernels, etc
[10:11] <zequence> And, I'm pretty sure they won't
[10:12] <zequence> Not in a "stable" rolling release repo, anyway
[10:12] <zequence> Then it wouldn't be anything else but a rolling unfrozen development release
[10:13] <zequence> I mean, if they did
[10:13] <zequence> Same with xorg related things
[10:14] <zequence> I'm don't know what would cause most problems, but those are two things that everyone relies on
[10:15] <zequence> If the system core is always stable, and we have the power to decide over those things that are specific for us, I'd be ok with that
[10:15] <bluesabre> But doesn't that provide us with an opportunity to maintain and patch our relevant software as well?  I realize that our core development team is small, but I would imagine that there would be some sort of window before big release changes
[10:16] <zequence> I would like it if we get the chance to smoketest packages, and if there are problems, have them frozen. I don't know what the bar for something like that is now - that it doesn't build, or totally crashes your system?
[10:18] <knome> zequence, it's been demonstrated before that ubuntu doesn't care too much about flavors breaking even for LTS releases
[10:18] <bluesabre> heh
[10:18] <bluesabre> damn messaging indicator
[10:19] <knome> zequence, based on that, i don't think i can agree with you that ubuntu will be at all careful with packages affecting flavors in the rolling repository
[10:19] <knome> anyway, i got to take a shower and then leave
[10:19] <zequence> knome: Depends highly on if they will keep different repos or not. If they consider the rolling release, as is, a true development/expirementation release only, than, yes, I would agree with you
[10:20] <knome> even if it was considered stable, i couldn't agree.
[10:20] <zequence> Things are always going to break, but you need the chance to do something about it
[10:20] <knome> they will only make sure ubuntu (the OS) works, and "try" to notice people enough in advance for them to fix/change their things before they break.
[10:21] <knome> that's what they're telling you what happens if you use ubuntu sdk.
[10:21] <knome> if you're not using that, then it's going to be much more random.
[10:22] <knome> anyway, shower now. will check irc quickly before leaving home.
[10:31] <knome> ok, i'm off
[10:31] <knome> zequence, bluesabre: if you're around later today, i'll happily discuss about this further with you
[10:31] <knome> ->
[10:36] <bluesabre> knome, sure.  Not sure when I'll be on today, but I'll keep my account connected :)
[11:33] <bluesabre> there is a remote possibility that I actually managed to upload a package to the catfish stable ppa
[12:00] <bluesabre> Ok, it's definitely uploaded, now whether it builds or not is a different story altogether
[12:00] <bluesabre> and it looks like its a 2-hour wait for next build
[12:01] <bluesabre> So, guess I'll check that out tonight :)
[22:48] <amerigena> Here's a question that's been bugging me : I'm (trying) to work with a distro called OS4. Xubuntu based. Have an older version of it installed on this PC.
[22:49] <amerigena> Between System and Help, on the default menu. there were two separators. Fine.
[22:50] <amerigena> I used Alacarte, removed one of the separators, and now, at the top of the top-level menu, above Web Browser and Mail Reader, there's an entry for Wine, that I don't want there, and haven't been able to figure out how to get rid of.
[22:52] <amerigena> I've tried Googling it, have tried editing the default menus in ~/.config/menus and /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus - can't find the solution.
[22:53] <Unit193> amerigena: 1.  This is the Xubuntu development channel, not support.  2. We don't support anything other than Xubuntu in #xubuntu   3. Your issue is with the files in ~/.local/share/applications/
[22:54] <Unit193> (IIRC anyway, I had that issue.)
[23:13] <amerigena> Fair enough.
[23:13] <amerigena> Worth a try.
[23:15] <amerigena> Thank you.
[23:18] <Unit193> Sure, got it?
[23:44] <amerigena> Nope. Not yet. But I'll get there.
[23:44] <amerigena> I see a file called alacarte.made.desktop. But opening it just shows references to Xfce-Terminal, not Wine.
[23:48] <amerigena> That's the problem - can't find any references to Wine.