[06:50] morning superfly and others [07:35] hi grantw [07:36] hi [09:03] haha Wraz you are upside down i see [12:02] hi Tonberry theblazehen [12:03] Mezenir, [12:03] hi kilos [12:55] good afternoon [12:55] Maaz: coffee on [12:55] * Maaz washes some mugs [12:55] hi charl_ [12:55] Maaz, coffee please [12:55] hi Kilos [12:55] Kilos: Alrighty [12:55] how's it going [12:55] hi charl_ [12:56] ok ty and you [12:56] good good [12:56] how did the jam go yesterday in cape town? [12:56] hi theblazehen [12:57] ? they didnt say much last night [12:57] ah i see [12:57] did any of you guys check out firefox os yet? [12:57] tumbleweed, feedback on the jam? [12:57] nope [12:57] just saw a review of it (in dutch) http://tweakers.net/video/7324/firefox-os.html [12:58] i love that it is based around html not mobile "apps" but it looks quite disappointing overall [12:58] charl_, want to some time, big download though [12:58] it's great that they are aiming at low end devices but it's a pity they don't offer more for high end devices [12:59] it means they might make a dent in low-end markets but high end markets will be left "behind" in that respect [12:59] Coffee's ready for charl_ and Kilos! [12:59] Maaz: thanks [12:59] charl_: No problem [12:59] Maaz, ty [12:59] You are welcome Kilos [12:59] what do you mean by don't offer more for highend devices [13:00] suerly highend things can use lowend stuff? [13:00] but not vice versa [13:00] surely [13:00] in the review i just saw they were using a really low end phone and the interface looks really poorly rounded off [13:00] the s2? [13:00] it will obviously run better on a high end phone but why demo it on a low end phone then [13:00] that was their dev phone [13:00] and then it still looks really poorly rounded off [13:01] not sure [13:01] they could surely offer everything but only enable more effects on high-end phones [13:01] yea [13:02] and then obviously, always demo on a high end phone ;) [13:02] i dont even browse with firefox [13:02] Kilos, what do you use? chrominum? [13:02] hate stuff that gets upgraded every 2 weeks [13:02] opera [13:02] <-- chromium fan here [13:03] i heard opera is moving to webkit? [13:03] Kilos, used to use it but somethimes rendering messed up [13:03] good choice i think but then why use opera in the first place [13:03] i like opera [13:03] Kilos: sure, we had fun [13:03] huh? [13:03] lol thats a lot of feedback [13:03] that doesn't say much :) [13:04] i have fun too when i go have a beer with friends :) [13:04] not productive though [13:04] tumbleweed, dont forget to have something for neil to put in the goodies he does [13:04] reports or something [13:05] not just we had fun [13:05] Kilos: ah, sure [13:05] ty [13:06] now many bugs were solved etc [13:06] will count towards our next reapproval i think [13:08] methinks mage will give us info looking at it from his pov charl_ [13:09] :) [13:09] was his first jam i think [13:09] sounds good, i have never been to one of those [13:09] but i'm not really an ubuntu developer so not sure what i could do in any case [13:10] learn man [13:10] mage isnt either [13:10] i don't get away with any excuses here i see :) [13:10] that's a good thing :) [13:10] see how other guys do things [13:11] yeah i need to learn about how to make packages etc [13:11] im the only one that gets away with anything here because if they ban me they need a greeter bot [13:11] :D [13:11] hehe [13:12] we love you Kilos you are an essential part of this channel! [13:12] aw ty [13:13] howdy all [13:13] hi magespawn [13:14] yo magespawn [13:14] give us some feedback on the jam [13:15] i did not go Kilos, bit far to travel just for one day [13:15] oh and that stupid thing doesnt install unless you can wget it their way [13:15] but found a work around [13:15] which stupid thing? [13:15] oh i thought you watched online magespawn [13:15] sakis3g [13:15] you mean the sakis3g [13:16] i just followed along with the links that tumbleweed posted here thats all [13:16] just by chance i extracted it and right clicked on the extraction and chose run in terminal and here i am [13:17] still cant see modem with unity and kde so both running sakis now [13:17] actually saw a site that said the 12.04 network-manager is the worst tool in 12.04 [13:18] i tried to find conman but no luck so far [13:18] they are talking about the gui nm, i think [13:18] 3g modem? [13:19] yes and the conflict thing [13:19] yip theblazehen [13:19] foreign one [13:19] ok [13:20] im not sure if its modeswitch or where the prob actually is [13:20] lsusb shows its here but in storage mode [13:20] which modem do you have? [13:21] hmm its an alcatel [13:21] tct [13:21] suadi [13:21] saudi [13:21] forget what model now [13:22] the thing is it has worked with 12.04 when i plug it in at different stages but now it dont wanna any more [13:23] maybe the modem itself is failing [13:23] musta tried 8 or more installs yesterday [13:24] it worked on 11.10 and 12.10 yesterday [13:24] here is a link to info about conman in launchpad https://launchpad.net/connman [13:24] its only 12.04 where it doesnt [13:24] ty i go see [13:24] then why not stay on 12.10 [13:24] ? [13:25] it boots to blanck screen [13:25] blank [13:25] tried 3 times [13:25] hehe [13:25] haha i love that name, conman [13:25] or connman then [13:26] at least with kde one can alt+shift+f12 when nothing shows [13:27] and you cant ctrl+alt+f2 to cli because no nm there [13:27] wanted to install gdm and see if that helped [13:28] reading https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/partners/ now but it's really weird [13:28] "Create your own unique branded sections of Firefox for Android and Firefox Marketplace for a more engaging user experience and to increase the visibility of your brand." [13:29] oh magespawn it isnt downloadable yet? [13:29] i think there is source code, not sure [13:30] they seem to be going full-out commercial with this on the one side... i was hoping for a more open package management approach like ubuntu/debian [13:30] charl_ i think they want the manufacturers to customise the user experience [13:31] yeah it's exactly all the stuff i _don't_ want to hear [13:31] commercial firefox os? [13:31] i'm becoming very disappointed with firefox os [13:31] * magespawn goes to read [13:31] i was hoping it was going to be the change we were all waiting for [13:31] but it seems to be yet another iteration on the ios/android/etc deal [13:31] just on a different technology stack [13:33] it does seem open though, or am i missing something [13:34] well it depends on how you define "open" [13:34] i am looking for a mobile phone operating system that just has a package repositort [13:34] *repository [13:34] not a "marketplace" [13:34] ahh right [13:34] meego/memeo [13:35] and something that is interoperable, just like any repository sources you can add [13:35] not a "branded" thing by some mobile provider [13:35] maybe it isn't so bad but it sounds like they are going in the wrong direction [13:35] time will tell [13:35] yeah maybe we just need to wait and see [13:35] but so far i don't like what i'm seeing [13:36] or reading i mean [13:36] what about tizen os? [13:36] the marketplace idea is popular at the moment, it is what most people understand [13:37] well you can call it what you want, but as long as it's based on a package management system similar to apt i'm happy [13:37] bbl going to water some plants [13:37] you can wrap any terminology and user interface around it [13:38] lol [13:38] i must say i did try to apt-get on a win machine the other day [13:38] bbl [13:39] theblazehen: i think tizen sounds more promising [13:39] i like that it is backed by the linux foundation [13:39] also based on maemo/meego right? [13:39] not sure [13:39] but it doesn't matter, as long as their philosophy is right [13:40] yea. [13:40] good techology starts with the right philosophy because then you make the right design decisions [13:40] start wrong and you will end wrong [13:40] I agree [13:40] we have too many mobile operating systems as it is, some standardisation would be nice, but it needs to be fully open from the ground up [13:41] HTML5 applications run on Tizen, Firefox OS, WebOS and BlackBerry 10 under a browser runtime with offline capabilities..... Android applications can run on Tizen devices with OpenMobile's Application Compatibility Layer (ACL).[7] ..... Applications based on Qt, GTK+ and EFL frameworks can run on Tizen IVI.[8] While there is no official support for these third-party frameworks, according to the explanation on the Tizen SDK web [13:41] site[5] Tizen applications for mobile devices can be developed without relying on an official Tizen IDE as long as the application complies with Tizen packaging rules. [13:41] i thought mozilla was going to provide us with that but i am very worried atm [13:42] tizon sounds good though, much more of what i had in mind [13:42] charl_, I believe mobile devices need something like X and then you can run the binaries directly. Kinda like desktop linux but with a different DE and apps [13:42] yea, just waiting for a port :D [13:42] yes i agree [13:43] well you need all the necessary drivers obviously [13:43] Tizen 2 has a complicated licensing model. Its SDK is built on top of open source components[7] but the entire SDK has been published under a non-open-source Samsung licence[8 [13:43] and then you need a desktop environment that is aimed at touch interfaces [13:43] Yea [13:43] that's not cool [13:44] there we go again [13:44] Yea, but many have been developed, just need to port them maybe [13:44] FOSS port of tizen perhaps [13:44] well you have android minus the proprietary components as well [13:44] i dunno [13:45] I guess [13:45] sorry maybe it was just my expectations again :) [13:45] disappointing though, we need someone to champion the cause [13:45] All I want is something similar to maemo, and dont worry i also have high expectations [13:45] i thought that was going to be mozilla but oh well [13:46] What is stopping people making an entirely free os, perhaps with just android kernel and driver? [13:46] drivers* [13:46] all we need to do this do the same for mobile phones as we did for desktops with desktop linux [13:46] yeah good question [13:47] Yea. Pity i don't know much c. Otherwise I would start a project on github now :D [13:47] same here, i don't even use a mobile phone at the moment, and i'm the one complaining :D [13:47] i would though, if i could find the right solution [13:48] Haha, Bet you will buy one when the right OS comes out. [13:48] What are your opininos on ubuntu touch? [13:48] but hardware is mostly manufactured in china in any case, what you need is decide on a certain set of components and make sure you have the drivers [13:49] then you can build a platform fairly quickly, it's mostly about making use of existing components and add the missing ones [13:49] the only "missing" ones would be applications that can run on a small screen size [13:49] or better touch interface integration [13:49] Or have something similar to AOSP where you have the generic code, just add the kernel and drivers [13:49] the rest we all have already [13:49] but re ubuntu touch, i think it looks very promising [13:50] i am more enthusiastic about that at the moment [13:50] I believe there are programs that will allow running android applications on pc, Something similar is coming out to windows 8 [13:50] Yea, just waiting for a port to the s2 and then I will download it [13:50] yeah it's interesting because believe it or not i would want to run some android applications on my laptop [13:50] there are simulators and virtual machines for it though [13:51] i tried out some virtual machine a while ago and it worked perfectly except i couldn't get any networking [13:51] i'm sure i could get it to work with some more time spent though [13:51] but back to ubuntu touch, i am really optimistic, the demos i have seen so far looks good [13:51] i like the gestures [13:51] and it looks really well rounded off compared to firefox os [13:52] it might not run that well on low end phones but for high end phones i am seriously going to consider it [13:52] that looks like the all-round best option atm [13:53] what do you think? [13:54] hi grififn [13:54] hi grififn [13:55] Hi Kilos. Can you help? I updated my Nvidia drivers to 310 to try and run Steam and Im back to a blank screen after restart... [13:55] still no xchat installed [13:55] oh my [13:55] Ubuntu....broken... [13:55] nope just graphics [13:56] try ctrl+alt+f [13:56] if you get the command line [13:56] unistall it [13:56] uninstall [13:56] sorry ctrl+alt+f2 [13:57] I tried to purge the nvidia drivers but no luck [13:57] and apt-get remove? [13:58] maybe it is a broken package [13:58] running.... [13:59] ok then when you boot try recovery mode at the grub menu if it doesnt boot cleanly [14:00] Anyways while we wait. Who was the rest of everone's weekends? [14:00] *how [14:00] hectic ty [14:00] hehe [14:01] if the prop driver dont work you can try install nvidia-current [14:01] aw net splits [14:02] didnt steam work with nouveau drivers that install as default? [14:02] Kilos: I would not have changed from the working driver but Stream requires the new driver to run so I took a gamble [14:03] then go with installing nvidia-current [14:03] its in the repos [14:03] so no external stuff [14:03] also tonight you can get pro help when the guys get online [14:04] someone here will have a fix [14:05] Mabe this is just the computers way of telling me to work and not play. Haha [14:05] hahaha [14:06] there might be some issues somewhere, we can hear from the guys that use steam later [14:06] sunday avy nap time [14:07] O how some sleep would be apreciated [14:09] Sorry name change. Just relized I made some erros in my nic [14:09] ah came back with right spelling too [14:09] hehe [14:10] other spelling was hard to pronounce [14:11] Your telling me. Dam difference in keyboards. Don't know if anyone else has the same problem but the difference in size, shape and location of keys on different keyboards makes it hard type some times [14:11] yeah [14:12] wb theblazehen [14:13] thx. Fscking ping timeout [14:13] Ok back up and running [14:13] yay thats good griffin_ [14:13] you can install nvidia-current safely methinks [14:14] Just completed thats why I'm back on xchat [14:14] normally better than the default drivers [14:14] oh thats good [14:15] now you can try steam again [14:15] hehe [14:15] theblazehen, net isnt stable [14:16] yea. [14:16] the pro rarely goes offline [14:16] now he gotta tail [14:16] Problem is the current drivers are like 295.xx something and I need at least 304.22. Problem is if I install it my HDMI screen goes fuzzy [14:16] Busy downloading ubuntu touch :D [14:16] 1% done downloading... Can't wait [14:17] lol [14:17] What are you going to install it on? [14:17] galaxy s2 [14:17] ask the brainy guys tonight griffin_ [14:18] Please let me know how it works because I cant wait for the Ubuntu phone's to arrive [14:18] no probs. Unfortunately only 1 core works and no hardware acceleration [14:18] I will go out and BUY a S2 if it runs properly [14:18] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2165568&page=1 [14:19] buy a nexus. Official images available [14:19] 8 hours till download complete... [14:19] I understand we can only use it on the Nexus 3 because the 4 will not be sold in SA [14:20] It works on the galaxy nexus. Not sure about the latest versions of the nexus [14:20] ouch [14:21] Kilos, why? [14:21] 8 hours [14:21] Wonder if we will get blank screens on phones after installing graphics as well...... [14:21] hehe [14:21] like me upgrading on gprs a while ago [14:21] Kilos, Yeah, from the ubuntu site - 480 MB - 10 KB/S [14:21] wow thats very bad [14:22] griffin_, That sucks - did you break your desktop ;) [14:22] must be many peeps wtih the same idea [14:22] with [14:22] it's from cdimage.ubuntu.com i think [14:22] yep [14:23] theblazehen: Trying to get my steam to work and it required the latest nvidia drivers that caused a blank screen again. But with help from Kilos I'm up and running [14:23] How did you fix it with a blank screen? chroot from another pc? [14:24] nvidia really need to do some work on their drivers [14:24] See everyone in a bit. Restarting with alternate drivers to see if I can get Steam working [14:24] ctrl+alt+f2 [14:24] bye. ood luck [14:24] Kilos, ah. [14:24] then you can remove what you installed [14:24] Used that often getting my PowerVR card working [14:24] Kilos, yea. [14:25] only prob is you can get it to connect with nm [14:25] cant [14:25] 3g that is [14:25] ever try using pppd directly? [14:26] nope i tried gnome-ppp today without luck too [14:26] dont see the modem at all [14:26] that sucks... [14:26] yeah [14:26] so far its only been a prob on 12.04 [14:26] And connman could pick it up on other versions? [14:27] oh and 9.10 that needed usb-modeswitch installed first [14:27] ok [14:27] yay griffin_ [14:27] gimme a sec [14:28] Ok but now its back to a fuzzy HDMi output again. GRRRR! [14:28] aw [14:28] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/USB_3G_Modem#Mode_switching may be relevant [14:29] lol you sure thats a nvidia card [14:29] ty theblazehen [14:29] np [14:31] oh i looked there [14:31] even reinstall everything usb [14:31] Didn't work? [14:31] is there a /dev/ttyUSB0 or /dev/ttyACM0 or similar? [14:32] ya /dev/tty usb2 [14:32] screen /dev/ttyUSB2 9600 [14:32] then try some AT modem commands [14:34] whats the pacman thing [14:34] just pacmage manager for arch [14:34] oh [14:34] just try and substitute pacman -S with apt-get install [14:34] else google package name [14:35] griffin_, hows it working? [14:35] weird things happen here. it has worked when plugin in at end of install then connecting and removing modem then rebooting and plugin in again [14:36] also a few times only plugin in after first reboot [14:36] strange? [14:36] but never the same [14:36] yeah weird [14:36] thats why i can do clean installs up to 8 times to get it working [14:36] but not this time [14:37] can you run AT modem commands on /dev/ttyUSB2 ? [14:37] i wish i could remove the storage part off the modem permanently [14:37] i dunno [14:37] yea [14:38] Does it have a pin? [14:38] nope [14:38] ok run the screen command and then type AT&V and enter [14:38] should show status [14:39] where are you reading that [14:39] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayes_command_set#GSM and just knowledge i got from reading OLD linux books [14:40] so in cli just type in screen? [14:40] screen /dev/USB2 9600 [14:40] 9600 is the baud rate [14:40] ok sec [14:42] that flashed some stuff up too fast to read then said failed [14:43] is the stuff still on screen? [14:43] [screen is terminating] [14:43] hehe [14:43] nope [14:43] lsusb shows it [14:43] Bus 001 Device 004: ID 1bbb:0000 T & A Mobile Phones [14:44] that 0000 is storage mode [14:45] stupid idea. who wants/needs 1g storage [14:45] yea [14:45] is it set up in the modeswitch config file? [14:45] never looked there [14:45] ok [14:46] no forget im old and a mechanic [14:46] https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=861424 - might be relevevant [14:46] i go see ty [14:47] and try sudo eject /dev/sd-whatever it's picked up as [14:48] interesting, i am watching a review of a meego-fork now called sailfish https://sailfishos.org/ [14:48] charl_, look now [14:48] good review but it's in dutch http://tweakers.net/video/7333/sailfish-os.html [14:49] look soon. screen shot looks great [14:49] sounds really promising [14:49] it looks seriously polished and runs smoothly on old hardware [14:49] good :) [14:49] and runs android applications [14:50]