[00:00] One thing that is a downside mixing on Linux is the high CPU usage for a lot of the FX [00:00] You quickly run out of CPU power === jta is now known as jta_food [03:16] smartboyhw, zequence I have just found the xubuntu setup for the settings manager. [03:18] The settings manager uses another menu file just like the one for the main menu. [03:18] Lump|AFK, are you there? === ubott2 is now known as ubottu === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu [11:50] greetings -R [11:57] shai_halud: hi [11:59] howdy [12:00] woops. we lost mick [12:00] shai_halud: I'm going to be away for a little while. bb in 30 min or so. Meanwhile, if you want to see what we're working on, look at the bottom of this page https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/topic-flavor-ubuntustudio [12:00] Each circle is a blueprint [12:01] ok [12:01] hover your mouse over them to see what they are called [12:01] gotcha [12:01] click them to see that blueprint. Each has a set of workitems (well, most of them) [12:02] shai_halud: As an example, the audio workflow https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-audio [12:02] and you are Kaj? [12:02] Yea [12:02] ok i see you on the leadership page [12:03] er team structure [12:03] If you under "Work Items", you see the actual tasks we want to do for that blueprint [12:03] <---josh [12:03] shai_halud: Hi Josh [12:05] how much of the development team is dedicated to the web platform? [12:05] We only have one guy working on the website theme. He's the lead of the Xubuntu team - knome [12:06] But, we have a PR team, which is allowed to post on it [12:06] ok. just curious. I have some minor web develoment history [12:07] The source for the theme is in launchpad, so it's avaliable if one needs to make changes. [12:08] is it wiki based? [12:08] We don't have access to the server itself, and need Ubuntu ops to update it for us [12:08] It's Wordpress [12:08] ah [12:09] bb in 30 min or so [12:09] ok. i'll take a look around [12:34] shai_halud: So, what do you think? [12:35] hi there [12:35] well, I am curious what types of thing you will be able to use me for [12:36] Really anything you'd be willing to do, probably [12:36] hi mick_ [12:37] hey, nice to see u [12:37] :) [12:38] is the studio roadmap graph ever going to be improved for size/readablityi? (what is the webdev's name so i can refer to him by it?) [12:38] shai_halud: That's why I put everything up in the overview https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PermanentBlueprintOverview [12:38] It's not easy to read the LP page [12:40] There's also two kinds of blueprints. Those that are permanent, and not release based. And then there are the next-release blueprints [12:40] The permanent blueprints are done inside the Ubuntu Studio project, while the release based blueprints are done in Ubuntu [12:41] You can see a status report for our blueprints here http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-flavor-ubuntustudio.html [12:41] Hi shai_halud :) [12:41] Those are only the next-release blueprints [12:41] so, how large is the entire ubuntustudio dev tea, and are these portals the central location that all dev for it are kept track of? [12:41] shai_halud, 16 people i think:P [12:41] Well, that's just the LP team [12:42] There are lots of people who have been involved in one way or the other over the years [12:42] right [12:42] Right now, active members, how many? less than 10. Depends on how you count [12:43] There is QA (mainly me and len_1304), Documentation (mainly zequence), kernel (also mainly zequence), PR (me + ttoine + holstein + ScottL) [12:43] Probably less than 5 (really active) [12:43] It will take me some time to familiarize myself with the sites and to understand what is needed. More yet, for me to determine what I will be able to help with [12:44] Right now, we have two things to focus on. 1. making sure we are ready for the 13.04 release (we aren't sure there will be one though), 2. be active next week during UDS (Ubuntu Developer Summit) [12:45] I have no coding knowledge beyond basic html and css. I have used php for a CMS but it was all pre-made (drupal). That is the extent of my coding knowledge. I have a rudimentary understanding of linux systems, and google much of what I accomplish at that [12:45] The discussion on whether or not Ubuntu should become a rolling release might get settled during UDS [12:46] I will assume that whenever you say Ubuntu you mean Ubuntu Studio [12:46] shai_halud: If you want to learn about that stuff, install the development release of Ubuntu Studio (or any other flavor), and you can go from there. I have tons of info on that [12:47] Well, Ubuntu Studio is just another flavor of Ubuntu, so whatever Ubuntu does, will affect Ubuntu Studio [12:47] I wasn't aware of it's existence [12:47] shai_halud: The daily build of UBuntu Studio http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/ [12:48] I may have to scrap mint if i were to install this, or just create a persistent usb [12:48] I have dev releases installed for both 32 and 64bit, just for testing. I also have installs for 12.10 and 12.04, both 32 and 64bit. But, the main platform I use for development, is a custom 13.04. I like to use gnome-shell [12:49] I currently have mint, w7 and U.S. on this pc [12:49] shall i mention virtual box? [12:49] virtual box works [12:49] I have it installed in both linux systems [12:50] However, Ubuntu has given me issues in VB [12:50] er VBox [12:50] It's not perfect. I've had installs get corrupted [12:50] (I have coder friends who hate it when I refer to Vbox as VB) [12:51] I tried doing development using VB some time ago, but just installed on HW instead. I've got more than one machine, so it's not a big problem for me [12:51] VB the aussie drink of the people :) [12:51] I initially was going to install U.S. in a vm, but it wouldn't boot [12:52] Installing on Virtualbox is definately better than nothing, but it's not usable for testing though [12:52] Not really [12:52] yea? [12:52] scratch that idea then [12:53] Certain tests [12:53] You don't get access to your actual audio devices, and graphics is a bit different too [12:55] Might be a less good idea to do development and testing on a machine you intend to use for production too [12:55] I am not a professional musician. Just a hobbyist with a passion. [12:56] Not that your HW is in danger (even if that could happen too, but not likely), just that practically, I find it to be a little messy [12:56] lots of reformatting eh [12:56] for any testing I would definitely have to clear some space out on this drive, probably set up some extended/logical partitions [12:57] u dont have another old drive to set up on? [12:57] i have 320 gigs on a dell inspiron 1545, 2g x2 cpu, 4g ram, 1g vram [12:57] not sure how much space US takes [12:58] 9 gigs [12:58] base install [12:58] laptop or desktop? [12:58] this is laptop [12:58] oh [12:59] that makes it hard [12:59] I am not afraid of gparted [12:59] :) [12:59] I have about 10 years in the linux community [12:59] and I won't own a machine without it [13:00] oh nice [13:00] yes i dont like windows [13:00] it has it's uses [13:00] An os is an os [13:01] well if you *have* to use it [13:02] They all essentially do the same things [13:02] Even OSX [13:02] I prefer Linux [13:02] me 2 [13:02] What are you currently running Mick? [13:03] 12.10 on this machine [13:03] Likewise [13:03] straight ubuntu [13:03] Oh, not studio? [13:03] I guess the areas we work on could be categorized into: testing, development(not nearly as code based as one would think), artwork, documentation and PR [13:03] thats on the laptop [13:04] smartboyhw is most involved in testing, and is particularly involved in anything to do with our ISO releases atm [13:05] Len-nb does a lot of performance testing for audio [13:05] cool [13:05] Language is a forte of mine,, I dabble in Gimp [13:05] gimp has its own language? [13:06] oh i see sry [13:06] development could be anywhere from suggesting new applications and settings, to administering our sources. One is not more important than the other [13:06] Gimp is written in c and python, but it uses a language called script-fu too [13:06] source management is more administrative, and doesn't really require much more than knowing how the system works [13:06] oh ok [13:07] documentation for now is all done in the wikis, but we want to have a user guide on our website too [13:07] Source management. Sounds Interesting [13:08] Well, managing sources is like, someone wants to add a new application. You get what is called the "seeds", edit a textfile, commit the change and push it [13:08] How do you normally initiate new people? [13:09] with a paddle (jokes) [13:09] So, it's really not knowing how to code, just how to use bzr, and knowing about seeds [13:09] Problem is, we don't get a lot of new people here. that's my main mission this year, to make sure the team grows [13:09] Neither of which connect to any concept I am aware of at this time. [13:10] So, a lot of people want to use it, but not a lot of people want to make it, eh? [13:10] Needless to say, we won't hand out privileges to new people easily, but that doesn't stop anyone from doing any type of work. It's just that the way you go about it is slightly different, depending on if you have upload rights, or not [13:11] We have a team for new developers https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-contributors [13:12] It's a new team, and meant for new developers [13:12] Well, I have administerd my own site, used svn, puTTy, Apache, mysql, and a few other things that taught me never to fiddle with things I do not understand, so have no fear. I will not linger where I have no business. [13:13] I have killed my own site.... once [13:14] I was hanging around here for a couple of years before I got to be a member of the -dev team [13:14] I think I am teachable. With the right resources I might be able to learn on my own. [13:14] Google simply is not enough. [13:14] But, the membership of individual teams is not really anything more than a practical matter [13:15] I'll happily help anyone on the things that I know [13:15] I'm preparing this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DeveloperDocumentation [13:15] I am fully aware and grateful for this already [13:15] Good idea [13:16] A primer that literally begins with the first steps would be nice [13:16] There is however lots more, resource-wise. MOTU (masters of the Universe), is a Ubuntu team which work closely with Ubuntu devs [13:16] yes i was thinking the same [13:16] Every step of the way , elementary to Advanced [13:16] they have docs, and you can also ask them for help [13:18] What is the general consensus among Ubuntu-dev teams with regard to personal logging of the irc channels? [13:18] these channels are logged, and published on the net, so no problem there [13:18] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ [13:18] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/03/%23ubuntustudio-devel.html [13:19] I use xchat, and have not enabled logging, but I am curious how well it is arranged, as I have used logs often in the past for review of topics of interest and study [13:19] It's good to have when you might have missed a discussion [13:19] No doubt [13:20] I log everything. I'm in 50 channels or so, and have some alerts set up, so if anyone mentions certain words, I can follow what they are talking about [13:20] Good way to make sure you aren't missing anything :) [13:20] good god [13:20] oh god [13:20] :) [13:20] 50? [13:21] he is checking the other 49 :) [13:21] That may prove much more fruitful than googling all day long [13:21] Most channels I don't interact in much. ubuntu has channels for all sorts of things, and you usually go the right channel when you want to discuss a certain topic [13:21] Right. [13:22] #ubuntu-meeting for meetins, #ubuntu-devel, #ubuntu-kernel, #ubuntu-release (on ISO release stuff), etc [13:22] Then there's the audio channels #lau, #lad, #jack, #opensourcemusicians #kxstudio, etc [13:23] I'm on some debian channels, xubuntu channels. The list grows pretty quickly [13:23] As far as the packages, who determines which will be supported ? [13:23] i mean front end, obviously. [13:23] Most packages are imported directly from Debian [13:24] So, we don't actually maintain any packages, besides our own ubuntustudio-* and linux-lowlatency [13:24] and the repos? [13:24] The repos are the same as Ubuntu [13:24] Ubuntu Studio is just another official flavor of Ubuntu, just like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu and Mythbuntu [13:25] So Debian is the fallback for both systems. And are there any other Ubuntu distros your team is involved with? [13:25] We've imported our desktop from Xubuntu, so we work somewhat with them on desktop stuff [13:25] Makes sense [13:26] When we want to do changes to packages, we do it in Debian. They have a team for multimedia packages, called debian-multimedia [13:26] I'm pleased with the choice of xfce in Studio [13:26] Please tell me Unity will never be part of the Studio picture [13:27] If for some reason we'd not be in tune with how Debian does things, there's always the possibility to craete your own version of a package, and get someone to sponsor an upload [13:27] im on the other side of the fence, i like unity [13:27] I.E. Sourceforge, ? [13:27] I'm not going to say never about anything, I'm afraid. I might consider using multiple desktops for Ubuntu Studio, where one is the default. I use gnome-shell myself. Really up to the user [13:29] When you want to have your own package uploaded, you can upload it to launchpad, try getting one of the Ubuntu devs to sponsor it. That person then uploads it to the Ubuntu repo [13:29] ok guys im wacked, ill log in tomorrow ok, if i dont see u then, have a nice day [13:29] Anyone can do this, so it's not flavor controlled, or anything [13:29] mick_: Nice to see you, and hope to see you around [13:29] Likewise Mick. Good day, or night, whichever the case may be where you are. [13:30] well i guess I was too slow [13:30] I am in the states, Indiana, by the way. [13:30] I'm in Gothenburg, Sweden [13:30] ~7hrs ahead of me, i think [13:30] Scott, our project lead, and holstein_ are from US [13:31] I think Len-nb is in Canada? [13:31] smartboyhw is in HK [13:31] ..Hong Kong [13:31] Hong Kong? [13:31] ttoine is in France [13:31] astraljava in Finland ;) [13:31] Hm. I didn;t think we could interact.... does he use Onion routing or something? [13:32] Or has China lifted those sanctions? [13:32] Hong Kong? I don't think they have the same problems as you have on main land China with that [13:33] I personally have never met anyone from any farter eeast than India online [13:34] Does PR deal with mirrors and the like? [13:34] oOr is that Source Management? [13:35] PR would be just making news, posting it, interacting with users [13:35] We will really be needing that if we want to get more developers involved [13:36] I need to prepare some text for that, and create a page for it on the website, and the wikis [13:36] I can help in that regard. Moreso as I learn the fundamentals of the system. [13:36] That's one area where I feel we should try to include as many as possible [13:36] My spelling and grammar skills are exceptional. [13:37] It's just about following some kind of common sense on what to post, and what not to post. Understanding you're representing Ubuntu Studio [13:38] English is not my native language, so I can't always judge if I'm off [13:39] I am a sponge for words and their meanings, and explaining them to those who do not understand them so well comes naturally to me. [13:39] I am a teacher, at heart. [13:40] Though I confess; I have much to learn before I will be of any use. [13:41] Are there any channels you have not told me about yet that will be valuable to me as I learn about the community? [13:44] shai_halud: Probably not, for now. The whole scope of what's involved in making Ubuntu Studio, even if the actual work does not need to that big, is kind of big to take in. [13:44] And I am curious also about translation- is anyone on your team directly responsible for providing language packs, or does that all come straight from Debian or Ubuntu? [13:45] We don't do any kind of translation [13:45] We really try not to do anything outside of the multimedia workflows [13:46] shai_halud: So, my tip is, since it seems like you do want to get your hands dirty with development, is you prepare an installation of the development release [13:47] So, give me the breakdown- what aspects of the Ubuntu Studio interface and applications does your team take responsibility for? [13:47] shai_halud: anything starting with ubuntustudio- [13:47] hehe [13:47] apt-cache search ubuntustudio- [13:48] shai_halud: Once you have a development releas installation ready, I'll show you how to prepare it for development [13:49] You did link that earlier didn't you? [13:49] shai_halud: You can find the Ubuntu Studio releases on the side menu of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio [13:49] I will have to make preparations for it [13:50] bb in an hour or so. time to eat [14:19] Who is talking about Hong Kong in a bad way!?!?!?!..... [14:19] shai_halud, zequence :( [14:20] smartboyhw: We were talking about the censorship that is effective in main land China, but I was suggesting Hong Kong is not affected in the same way [14:20] I don't really know [14:20] zequence, in Hong Kong we don't get censorship.... [14:20] That's what I though [14:20] We get more FREEDOM [14:20] thought* [14:20] zequence, how's your conversation with shai_halud ? [14:21] * smartboyhw has just played a round of monopoly with his parents and won [14:21] By quite a big difference [14:21] Very good. I'm happy when more people want to get involved [14:21] hehe [14:21] zequence, you see: We use the World electronic versino [14:21] s/versino/version/ [14:21] smartboyhw meant: "zequence, you see: We use the World electronic version" [14:21] Oh, never heard of it [14:21] The most expensive land is Montreal [14:22] (voted by public) [14:22] Really? [14:22] And I bought it and I built 4 houses then a hotel [14:22] zequence, yep [14:22] Basically $20M [14:22] And my Mum step onto it (LOL) [14:22] It's total murder when you get the best spots developed [14:23] The game finishes quickly [14:23] zequence, yes. LOL === kubotu_ is now known as kubotu [14:53] shai_halud: I'm putting up this page for introducing people to Ubuntu Studio development https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/JoinTheTeam [14:54] zequence, good:) [14:54] I'll try making it useful already today, so once I'm there, any feedback would be nice [14:56] zequence, OK [15:14] Wow! that was a bit of backlog to read today zequence [15:15] len_1304: Yep. hopefully we can make that problem more common for us [15:15] The one thing I would add that we do is integration. Making available apps work and fit together, via settings or whatever. [15:16] So coding is not a big thing, but being willing to learn config files and commandline stuff is. [15:16] Yep [15:17] len_1304, :) [15:17] There are some areas we could use translation work as well [15:18] Basically any of our *.desktop files for example. [15:18] len_1304, I am willing to:) [15:18] hello smartboyhw [15:18] * smartboyhw finally got a Chinese (Hong Kong) Team in Xfce [15:19] smartboyhw, any of our *.desktop files start with ubuntustudio and I think I keep them all in /usr/share/ubuntustudio/applications [15:19] They would be in the settings package. [15:20] len_1304, OK [15:20] * smartboyhw is a packager not a seed dev:P [15:20] Or menu dev:P [15:20] Thats not seeds [15:21] I know [15:21] Just saying:P [15:21] zequence, I am now actually working on putting vModSynth to Debian. [15:21] :) [15:22] They are just text files and they have lines like $Lang=$text [15:23] There are only two lines to each file, one for the package name that shows in the menu, and a longer one that shows when you hover the mouse over (tool tip) [15:23] (two lines that need tranlation) [15:23] :) [15:24] len_1304, shouldn't be hard [15:24] We set up .pot files [15:24] * len_1304 doesn't know how those work... being spoiled by using english all his life [15:25] len_1304, I can [15:25] * smartboyhw is a translator anyway [15:25] I know. You helped with catfish? [15:25] len_1304, yes [15:29] An example would be our ubuntustudio-help.desktop file [15:30] our english name is Name=Help and Documentation, but most others are just "help" for example Name[fr]=Aide [15:30] Name[zh_CN]=帮助 [15:30] Name[zh_TW]=幫助 [15:31] And Comment=Help and Documentation for using UbuntuStudio [15:31] Comment[zh_CN]=使用 UbuntuStudio 的帮助 [15:31] Comment[zh_TW]=幫助您使用 UbuntuStudio [15:33] Mostly I just changed the word ubuntu to ubuntustudio. in all of them, but a lot of our desktop files don't have any useful translation. [15:33] yep [15:36] I will do the .pot files setup (probably tmr since I need to sleep) [15:36] Non- of this is urgent. [15:36] len_1304, of course:P [15:36] I will add it to a work item though [15:36] We have been waiting for an upload of settings for months now [15:37] len_1304, and why micahg still hasn't done it!? [15:37] There is some problem with the buikd process [15:38] len_1304, why? [15:38] I don't know. [15:38] micahg, has been busy with xubunut (lots of 12.04.2 work) [15:38] It is mostly time thing [15:39] * smartboyhw wonders which blueprint is to add work items about translations... [15:39] zequence, ? [15:39] len_1304, uh... [15:39] I suspect maybe some of the build info is out of date [15:39] but I don't know [15:39] W: ubuntustudio-default-settings source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.9.2 (current is 3.9.4) [15:39] E: ubuntustudio-default-settings: udev-rule-in-etc etc/udev/rules.d/40-timer-permissions.rules [15:40] The second one probably [15:40] No build error though [15:40] That has been there since 12.10 [15:40] len_1304, oh [15:41] I was thinking in the debian directory [15:41] It should install under lib [15:42] * smartboyhw says bye [15:42] good night === jta is now known as jta_afk === jta_afk is now known as jta [18:10] zequence, Two emails on the list. I think we should add the items to the blue prints. [18:10] * len_1304 is off to play some music... [18:13] len_1304: As I just said on the mail list, +1 on doing it the Xubuntu way [20:14] I've added a new page on our website http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute/ [20:14] And, put out a new post http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/want-to-contribute-to-ubuntu-studio/ [20:14] I'll be posting on social channels and mail lists later too === jta is now known as jta_afk [21:48] shai_halud: Hey. I prepared some pages now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/JoinTheTeam [21:53] len_1304: I'll hoepfully be cleaning up -settings shortly and uploading [21:53] micahg, sounds great, I was going to wait till the meeting was over before asking :) [21:54] I just fixed my chroots, now I just have to update them, then import the missing settings upload into the branch, review the changes, and upload [21:54] Thank you [21:56] zequence, have you tried dual monitors with your gnome3 DE? [21:57] * Len-nb can never remember what the DE is properly called :( === TheDrums_ is now known as TheDrums [22:16] Len-nb: Happens. Been a while now, but it usually works pretty well [22:17] Len-nb: Though, this has a lot to do with drivers [22:18] I'm using a 40 inch LCD TV as my monitor these days, so I don't find much use with a tiny monitor [22:18] That might have needed a smiley [22:21] we've got more than 2000 likes on our fb page, 416 have us in their G+ circles. I wonder how many actual OS users [22:22] Should be thousands, but is it tens, or hundreds? [22:24] zequence: I have created ample space for an install. Would you prefer that i get the daily or the dev release? [22:25] I am leaning toward testing [22:26] shai_halud: the daily is a dev release [22:26] Oh. Right [22:26] Debian has more variants on that. Ubuntu really only has a development release [22:28] What is more urgent for the team right now; testing or development? [22:32] shai_halud: Well, testing I suppose. We're at the end of a development cycle, and next week there will be a feature freeze, which means no more changes to the development release, unless it's a bug fix [22:32] shai_halud: Also, we should try finishing any important blueprint we have for this release [22:32] So I just need to get one of the daily's [22:34] shai_halud: Check out the release schedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DevelopmentReleaseSchedule [22:34] March 7th is feature freeze [22:35] March 28 is Final Beta Release [22:35] Basically we do testing all the time [22:35] Or, should [22:35] But, once the Beta is out, it really needs to be good [22:36] ..if there even will be one. We don't know that right now, as they are talking about turning it to a rolling release [22:36] Probably we'll know more in a couple of days. After UDS hopefully [22:37] If we go towards a rolling release, that means we need to figure out how we do things from there on [22:37] It would mean, no development release, and just a different way to plan ahead [22:38] I think I will get http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/raring-dvd-amd64.iso [22:38] and the md5 [22:43] After I have installed, I'll be back for a little orientation. [22:43] shai_halud: Sounds good [22:44] See you in a bit [22:49] shai_halud, take a look at the live session too [22:49] At Launchpad? [22:50] oh [22:50] you mean the disc [22:50] ok [22:50] I'll be using usb [22:51] Ya you can boot live session or just install [22:51] I'll do both [22:51] Using either usb stick or disk [22:53] Len-nb: shai_halud is installing the development release, as he's wanting to start working with us on development [22:54] Yahoo! [22:55] zequence: I ended up finding the right repo to updgrade LMMS to 4.14, so the 2 hrs I spent compiling 4.13 was.... a leraning experience, shall we say, only. [22:55] and a learning experience too [22:55] (kxstudio repo) [22:56] So, whilst the raring ringtail dl's, I am off to test LMMS [22:57] (taking advantage of slow connection to give me some play time :P) [22:58] zequence, The reason I was asking about gnome shell and dual monitors is to see if they have the same setup as ubuntu vanilla. [22:59] I want the one vanilla is using, but if they got it from G shell then that is where to start looking [23:02] Len-nb: Don't think it's the same [23:03] Or, how do you mean, the same? [23:03] I don't know how that works. Ubuntu used to have the panel in both screens [23:03] Unity, I mean [23:03] And, does compiz/mutter have anything to with it? [23:04] Not that part, but the auto side by side thing [23:06] WHOA [23:06] New LMMS has Chords and Scales built into Piano roll! [23:07] hubba hubba [23:07]