/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/03/#xubuntu-devel.txt

len_1304amerigena, default place for the wine menu is in /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged01:23
Unit193len_1304: This is some fluke bug that puts wine at the very top of the applications menu.01:23
len_1304That menu stub may get overlaid after the menu stub alacarte creates in ~/.config/menu01:24
len_1304Mine is at the bottom.01:24
len_1304W comes after S I guess.01:26
skellatI've registered a blueprint for UDS-1303: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies03:18
skellatknome: I tagged you as approver for this but it is exceedingly general and vague enough so that, if approved for UDS, we can at least formally get some discussion on-record: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies03:20
* skellat wanders off03:20
=== ubott2 is now known as ubottu
knomeskellat, thanks10:36
suleymanHi. How can I donate Xubuntu?13:06
knomesuleyman, at the moment, we're not taking donations, but you can direct the money to the xfce project, from which we directly benefit13:19
suleymanthank you.13:22
knomenp13:22
knomebbl for the sprint18:20
pleia2home!20:58
knomewoo!20:58
pleia2oh right, so sprint time :)21:03
knomeyeah, it is21:03
pleia2I am getting settled in, lunch is on the counter, need to retrieve21:03
knomeyeah, let's wait for some time to people to appear from darkness21:04
knomehmm, the question in which repo where xubuntu-desktop is never occurred to me21:14
knomethough of course, universe is the natural choice.21:15
* pleia2 nods21:15
knomei think we need to rethink which items we want to work on during the sprint due to the RR-discussion21:16
knomeoh how it sucks that it's happening SOOOO close to FF.21:16
pleia2yeah, I think we should put off some things21:17
pleia2no use working on things that are usless if 13.04 never happens21:17
knomeyup.21:17
pleia2alright knome, looks like just you and me for now21:20
pleia2https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Sprints/2013-03-03-globaljam21:20
knomeUnit193 is hiding too.21:20
knome* Update the "Documentation" section under "Get Involved" 21:21
pleia2I have no idea how translations will work without freezes (except every 2 years)21:21
pleia2SRU is probably worthwhile if LTS is the only release21:22
Unit193>_>21:22
Unit193No I'm not here.21:22
pleia2hi Unit193!21:22
knomeyes...21:22
knomebut i'd probably look at that too after vUDS21:22
pleia2yeah21:23
pleia2and re: 13.04 docs, well, if there is no 13.04...21:23
pleia2so I don't think we can do much with docs today21:24
knomei'll edit the wikipage shortly.21:24
Unit193Easier to keep them up than do it like last time.21:24
pleia2Unit193: only if it's not a moving target21:24
Unit193There is that little bit...21:25
pleia2can't very well start writing docs for 14.04 now, over a year away, we won't know what features it'll have21:25
knomeyeah...21:25
knomewhile i don't want to go too deep in the RR discussion, i have to share this one:21:25
knomethey say that the 6-month release schedule slows down development because there are so many freezes, but actually the 2-year release interval, it seems that many and again many teams are suffering because the next LTS target is unknown21:27
knomere: all libs and for xubuntu, xfce and all that kind of "little" stuff21:27
pleia2yeah21:27
knomeyou could argue there's no sense to make an effort to make something work every 6 months, but i think it does make even less sense to make something work "for now"21:28
knomeok, wikipage updated.21:29
knomeare there others we simply want to postpone?21:29
* pleia2 deep breath and looks21:29
pleia2we can work on marketing, website and artwork stuff21:30
skellatI need to get back to scripting but, after finishing that bloody hour-long video, Xubuntu and other flavors are left twisting in the breeze due to the RR discussion.  I logged that blueprint that has yet to be approved for UDS-1303 but we've really got nothing to go on.  I remain unsure if there will necessarily be an Ubuntu 13.04 released.21:30
pleia2how about testing?21:30
knomemm... i wouldn't want to do that21:31
* pleia2 is trying to avoid more RR discussion this weekend, instead bought herself flowers and is working on Xfce21:31
* knome looks at the release schedule21:31
knomeffst, NOT the precise one!21:31
pleia2hehe21:31
knomenah, i'd actually really want to postpone the testing stuff after uds21:32
pleia2ok21:32
knomethat would be a lot of wasted time and energy, and not necessarily only mine21:32
knomeit's already been some if 13.04 cancelled, so...21:32
pleia2yeah21:32
knomeand bluesabre's :<21:32
knomei bought myself a good batch of beer too to not try to think the cruel world21:33
pleia2not sure where this article thing will land if the magazine doesn't have a 13.04 release to target21:33
knomeyeah, i thougt about that too21:33
pleia2so there will have been a lot of wasted time to go around (including a whole week in copenhagen planning a release that never happens)21:33
knomebut i decided to get more anxious about it only after UDS21:33
skellatpleia2: What sort of flowers did you buy?21:33
* micahg waves, will brb21:33
knomethough it was fun to be in copenhagen.21:33
knomeand it was still beneficial21:34
pleia2skellat: a bouquet! http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8526044856/21:34
knome...and there was some beer too, so definitely not non-fun21:34
pleia2beer++21:34
knomesome of it almost looks like plastic21:34
knomethe tulip and the green stuff at left front21:34
pleia2the flash does goofy things21:34
pleia2but they are real :)21:34
knomeyou mean adobe flash?21:35
pleia2no21:35
skellatThe Nexus S has a camera flash?21:35
pleia2yep21:35
pleia2Nexus S camera is actually pretty good, aside from being slow21:35
knomedo we want to postpone the docs stuff?21:36
pleia2yeah21:36
knomei mean, even the (back)port21:36
pleia2I think so, I don't want to start in on that and then realize we *will* have a 13.04 and then have two major projects on our hands21:37
pleia2if needed SRU can wait until after April21:37
knomemmh, right21:37
knomeso in that case21:38
maddernickHi21:38
knomei'd propose a following order21:38
Unit193By install http://pastebin.com/KP6r7N98   by vote: http://pastebin.com/R3tTiMRK21:38
* micahg is here21:38
knome1)  Update the "Documentation" section under "Get Involved" 21:38
knome2)  Add "Products" page under the marketing resources21:39
knome3)  Review and extend flyer content 21:39
knome4)  Create a list of languages we want in the ISO (n most spoken for a starting point) 21:39
knomethere's also the following items:21:39
knome*  Add launchers to the applications menu for Xubuntu.org (+contribute) 21:40
knome*  Work on the flyer drafts (artwork)21:40
knomemicahg, does the launcher thing sound something you'd be willing to go ahead and do?21:40
pleia2the flyer stuff seems more like something you do privately and then we talk about later21:40
pleia2s/stuff/artwork21:41
pleia2we can talk about content :)21:41
* pleia2 forgets what she wrote21:41
micahgwhere would it go?21:41
knomeyeah, but if people who want to contribute to the artwork are around, they can do quick drafts and get feedback quickly21:41
knomemicahg, next to "About Xfce" sounds good to me21:42
knomeactually21:42
pleia2oh right, need to review "About Xubuntu" text too21:42
maddernicki just wanna ask if ochosi_ has reviewed the plymouth changes and what he thought, and if he thinks I could request a merge21:42
pleia2that was brought up on the list a while back, I said I'd do it21:42
knomepleia2, yeah, was just about to say that too21:42
micahgknome: sure, we can do that, would like mr_pouit's input to see if he minds first, but I could do that quickly21:42
knomethe "Xubuntu" tab is actually "Xfce in Debian"21:43
knomepleia2, are you on the wikipage to add it or shall i?21:43
pleia2go for it21:43
knomedone21:44
* mr_pouit stops hiding then21:44
knomegood good21:44
knome;)=21:44
mr_pouithuhu21:44
* skellat has to disappear to get the last bloody script done for podcast recording tonight but reminds about this blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies21:44
mr_pouitmicahg: I don't mind (I uploaded a new xubuntu-default-settings yesterday, I should have waited then)21:45
micahgmr_pouit: it's a quick build, it's not that bad21:45
knomei'll simply start working on the "doc on website" stuff now21:46
knomejust do whatever you like! (:21:46
* micahg has to go fix his chroots to build against -proposed now21:46
knomebtw, hai jjfrv8 21:46
* pleia2 stops goofing off21:47
mr_pouitmicahg: I'm too lazy to do that, so I wait until it goes out of there if necessary :>21:48
jjfrv8Hi, knome 21:48
pleia2I wish there was an easier way to have people order stickers from moo.com (cafepress/zazzle like store)21:49
micahgmr_pouit: well, I stopped uploading after I was bit by a transition in -proposed (BTW, it's default for newly created chroots)21:50
knomepleia2, you mean like pre-designed stuff and users would only need to choose the amount ?21:50
pleia2knome: yeah21:51
pleia2instead of my current "go to this website, upload this design with the round stickers" method21:51
knomeyeah21:51
knomethat sucks21:51
pleia2but the quality of stickers on the other sites is meh :(21:51
pleia2moo is awesome21:51
maddernickCouldnt one make some sort of form-posting "proxy" for moo?21:52
maddernickthat uploads the image, and then takes you there21:52
pleia2not from what I've seen21:52
pleia2best I can do is link to http://us.moo.com/products/round-stickers.html21:53
knomeupdated the doc page21:54
* pleia2 works on some products page text21:54
pleia2:)21:55
mr_pouitmicahg: I don't use stuff from ubuntu-dev-tools to create my chroots anyway (since the last time I used them they installed recommends and I had to file a bug, iceweasel in a chroot is no fun)21:56
knomemr_pouit, :>21:56
maddernickpleia2: http://us.moo.com/api/21:56
maddernick"You can use the API yourself, or provide a UI for your customers to use "21:56
pleia2maddernick: ah!21:57
knomemaddernick, want to deal with that? ;)21:57
pleia2maddernick: thanks21:57
maddernickknome: i will look into it21:57
knomemaddernick, like, right now (it doesn't sound like a complex thing)21:57
maddernickokay21:57
knomethanks21:57
maddernickas long as i dont need to sign up :P21:57
knomeheh21:57
knomethat would be awkward anyway,.21:57
knome-,21:57
pleia2I've already ordered a bunch from them so I don't mind using my account for it21:58
knomepleia2, i'm pretty sure eventually linking to something doesn't need any account21:58
knomebut creating something with the api might21:58
micahgskellat: I'm very interested in Xubuntu on arm*, I think it would rock on that platform21:59
pleia2so what other products do we have besides stickers?21:59
micahgunfortunately, all I have is an old 800 mhz arm machine21:59
pleia2we'll have flyers21:59
knomepleia2, is the case badge issue fixed?21:59
pleia2knome: no, haven't had the budget to engage them for another order (same goes for tshirts)22:00
knomepleia2, meh. there isn't any possibility to work with them without throwing $100 at them again?22:00
pleia2yeah, I could just drop them an email without an order to see if there is anything they can do22:00
pleia2I'll do that now22:00
knomepleia2, i mean, the quality sucked, one would think they would be willing to do something about it to make you order again22:01
knome(especially since you're probably making *others* order from them as well)22:01
knomegreat, thanks22:01
pleia2yeah22:02
micahgknome: where's the link to contribute?22:02
knomemicahg, here: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/22:03
micahgknome: which icon and what should the title bw?22:03
micahg*be22:03
maddernickseems fairly easily done to do this, but yes, they dont seem to have any example keys, which makes this a bit annoying22:04
knomethat's a good question22:04
micahgknome: menu list name and hover over name are required22:04
knome"Contribute to Xubuntu" or "Get Involved with Xubuntu"22:04
knomewhich one do you prefer?22:04
maddernickSomeone will have to use their account for this :|22:04
* micahg prefers Get Involved22:05
micahgbut it's too long22:05
knomehover description: "Read about the different ways to help the Xubuntu team."22:06
knomemaybe it could be more inspiring...22:06
knome"Read how you can make Xubuntu better!"22:06
micahgthe contribute string is a good length (shorter than USC which is the largest item in the menu)22:06
pleia2ok, email sent22:07
knomehooray22:07
=== TheDrums_ is now known as TheDrums
maddernickpleia2: "Round Stickers, Label Stickers, Holiday Cards, Greeting Cards and Christmas Cards are not currently supported through the API"22:10
knomehahah22:10
knomewell done22:10
* pleia2 headdesk22:10
micahgknome: do you want it below or above About Xfce?22:10
pleia2I could offer to send people stickers for free and then revise my decision if I end up getting a billion requests ;)22:11
knomei'd say both should go above (since the menu is opening, that makes them "before" it, right?)22:11
pleia2and say "or you can make your own like this"22:11
knomepleia2, "let pleia2 order you stickers and get them for free or go through the hassle to order them yourself and pay for them" ?22:12
knomemm, i'm quite certain you wouldn't get any request22:12
knomeNOT22:12
maddernickGreat deal!22:12
pleia2with different words that make them feel guilty for asking me :)22:12
pleia2and making clear it's limited and stuff22:13
knomehaha22:13
micahgknome: so, between help and about xfce?22:13
knomemicahg, umm, between "Xubuntu website" -link and "About Xfce"22:13
micahghrm?22:14
knomewe wanted two items added22:14
knomeone for the main website, another for the contribute page22:14
micahgoh, hrm, missed that, what's the tagline, and title for the other?22:15
knome"Xubuntu website" -> "Learn more about Xubuntu on our website."22:15
knomepleia2, ^ agree?22:15
micahgso, Help, Xubuntu Website, Contribute to Xubuntu, About Xfce, Log Out22:15
knomeyes22:16
knome:)22:16
pleia2sure22:16
mr_pouitwe should name the entry "isdjjkqdsjkqd", because everyone will wonder what it is, click and end up on xubuntu.org22:17
micahglink to http://xubuntu.org22:17
knomeoh pretty please include the closing / :)22:17
knomei'll get clinically mad if you don't22:17
Unit193Ooooh!  I like this idea!22:18
* micahg wonders what knome would be like clinically mad...22:18
knomeright.22:18
knomei mean *more* clinically mad22:18
knomeO:)22:18
micahgcould someone test a built package in a new user (guest account would work) to see if it DTRT in raring?22:21
knomesomebody running raring?22:22
mr_pouit(or simply pick xfce-applications.menu and the desktop file on quantal)22:22
knomewhat about the firefox bookmarks?22:24
knomedo we have these links there as well?22:24
micahgdebs here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~micahg/xubuntu/22:24
micahg.changes has hashes22:25
knome(or can we affect those anyway? i believe it's controlled by ubufox)22:25
micahgyeah, we can't change the bookmarks ATM22:26
knomeyup :(22:26
knomehmm...22:30
knomethey appear in the middle of the categories22:30
knomethe icons should probably be the xubuntu logo22:31
micahgwhat's the icon name for that22:32
micahgoops forgot to add layout as well22:34
* pleia2 gets sucked into work stuff22:34
pleia2bah22:34
* micahg confesses to having not really played with menus much22:34
pleia2openstack now has a new process for signing the CLA, woo22:34
knomemicahg, lemme see22:35
micahgknome: so, if you give me the icon name, I'll rebuild the package22:35
knomepleia2, boo22:35
* micahg fixed the layout22:35
knomewell the menu icon name is distributor-logo22:36
knome(in places/*/, if you need that)22:37
micahgknome: thanks, new debs upload22:40
knomejust a sec22:41
knomeyeah, works now apart from the icons22:41
knomeoh wait22:42
knomeduh22:42
knomenvm22:42
knomeyup, works22:43
knomethanks22:44
knomebbiab22:44
mr_pouitnote that XFCE is now a recognized category (iirc)22:45
knomehmm22:45
knomewhat's your point22:45
micahgso, ok to upload, or should I just push?22:46
mr_pouit(in the desktop file, X-XFCE vs. XFCE, but both work anyway)22:47
micahgoh, should I change that before upload?22:47
knomeok for me to upload22:47
mr_pouitmicahg: bah, we checked that it's ok with X-XFCE, so no need to change22:48
micahgok22:48
* micahg updates the GPLv2 link to make lintian happy22:52
knomeheh23:00
knomeagain, bbiab23:00
knomeor actually, a bit longer while23:00
pleia2https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xq3alIj7ag0OvxInOF-9goD2I2z8o5z3uS53u5QKXKE/edit#heading=h.1vu8ysbzk5g8 for /products if you want to follow along at home23:00
pleia2(it's slow going, I keep getting distracted23:00
pleia2)23:00
knomesorry for poking :P23:02
pleia2:)23:05
knomebrb.23:06
pleia2I forgot about these, they were fun http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/23:14
pleia2now to remember where I got them from :)23:14
knomeheh23:14
knomethe blue should go through the edge23:14
knome...as i've said before23:15
pleia2ah, zazzle23:15
pleia2yeah, I don't think that was possible with zazzle23:15
knomeBOO23:15
knome(not MOO)23:16
pleia2hehe23:16
pleia2looks like I can probably get them closer to being all blue in the front, but when you turn it around it'll still be white in the back23:17
knomethat's still suboptimal if they can't guarantee 100% that they hit the center23:17
knomeand i don't think they can.23:17
pleia2yeah23:17
knomenot with that scale and price23:18
knomehowever, i can get another beer down the throat23:18
knome:]23:18
knomeyummy oak-aged23:18
pleia2hehe23:18
pleia2http://www.zazzle.com/cr/design/pt-zazzle_button?dz=3fde4fd5-70c0-4dc1-95cf-2c942e97eaca&clone=true&pending=true&style=round_button&size=1.25&dv=4&view=front_square23:22
pleia2not the awesomest of URLs23:22
knomeno23:23
knomemeh.23:23
pleia2ok, no buttons23:23
knomei'm simply not happy about calling that official merchandise23:23
* pleia2 nods23:23
maddernickThats awesome, cmon, thats like a Star Trek communicator but with this logo23:25
maddernickI might order it :P23:25
knomefeel free to23:25
knomebut i don't think it's a good idea to get these out in large quantities unless we can be sure about the quality23:25
maddernickThere must be some way of validating it23:26
knomea manufacturer that allows bleed, yes23:26
pleia2the quality is fine for what they are ;)23:28
pleia2http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/ pretty!23:29
pleia2just they do have the white border23:29
knomeyeah, but you're not a graphic designer by your trade...23:30
pleia2truth23:30
knomei mean23:31
knomethose generally look fine23:31
knomeand if somebody specifically comes asking for buttons, fine, tell them about those23:31
pleia2maybe I can put them on the wiki23:31
knomeand it's ok to use them in events and so on and spread them23:31
knomebut let's not call them official...23:31
knomejust something "you can use"23:31
knomeuntil we find a manufacturer that allows bleed23:32
knomethat shouldn't be a problem at all23:32
* pleia2 nods23:32
knomeif you sent a design like that (want the white border on the back and side) to any commercial printer that asks you for a "normal" price, they advise you to rethink23:33
knomethat's how bad it is23:33
pleia2knome: thoughts on what else we should add to this products page?23:37
pleia2and if it's just this, is it worthwhile yet?23:38
pleia2maybe we should wait for flyers...23:38
knomeyeah, probably not worth it yet23:38
knomebut it's good we got started with it23:38
pleia2next cycle (or whatever, you know) I should be able to start putting some $$ into t-shirt and other tests23:38
pleia2I can move this txt into a draft wordpress page so we don't lose it23:39
knomeyeah, that would be good23:39
pleia2k23:39
knomedo you still have time for stufF?23:39
pleia2yeah23:39
knomewe could look at the flyer text or the about dialog23:39
pleia2oh yes23:39
pleia2where did I put it, did I email it to you or something?23:39
knomehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Flyers23:40
knomewise girl23:40
knomeshould we work on that in gdocs?23:40
pleia2yeah23:41
knomewill you move it? :)23:42
pleia2yeah23:43
pleia2ok, copied over products stuff and saved the draft23:43
knomeok23:43
knomei'll add a note that case badges are available for ordering later23:43
knomefrom not-elizabeth :P23:43
pleia2:)23:44
knomere: the ugly url for image23:45
knomeif it would be possible to link somesubdomain.xubuntu.org to a server you have upload rights to, that would be optimal23:45
pleia2https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WcujR5HnBbu7Lc28ICn6la_EEVEs_vt6NkjoYQSCRps/edit23:46
knomethen we could have products.xubuntu.org/round-stickers.png or sth23:46
pleia2yeah23:46
knomeand update when we need to23:46
knomeand add other images23:46
pleia2think of working with IS on this kind of makes my head hurt23:46
knomei don't think things like that should be uploaded to WP anyway23:46
knomei can handle IS23:46
pleia2maybe just static.xubuntu.org or something23:47
pleia2where we can toss lots of stuff like this, maybe a .txt version of our strategy document too or something23:47
knomelol at gdocs bullet23:49
knomeyeah, sure23:49
drcMay I make a suggestion on the flyer?23:52
knomedrc, yes.23:53
knomeit is totally open for discussion23:53
pleia2it's ok to say "this is all wrong" too, I don't know what I'm doing so I won't be offended :)23:53
drcIt's a flyer...the salient points should be understood at a glance (bullets, points something) Paragrapha (like pleia2 is editing now require <reading>.23:54
* pleia2 nods23:55
drcThink a billboard you see driving down a high spreed road, you have just a few seconds to grab them and convay your message23:55
drcAt least at the top of the flyer.  Once you have them down to the middle, you can make more complex statements.23:56
drcMy thoughts anyway :)23:58
pleia2I love how I use phrases like "image processing" and "email client" - I am not normal user :)23:58
knomeas i commented, i don't think it does much difference to mention the video player name23:59
pleia2knome: re: parole - because it's not a known product?23:59
knomeno, not only that23:59
knomemost people don't care what the player is called23:59
pleia2they would if it was VLC ;)23:59
knomeyeah.23:59

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