[01:23] <len_1304> amerigena, default place for the wine menu is in /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged
[01:23] <Unit193> len_1304: This is some fluke bug that puts wine at the very top of the applications menu.
[01:24] <len_1304> That menu stub may get overlaid after the menu stub alacarte creates in ~/.config/menu
[01:24] <len_1304> Mine is at the bottom.
[01:26] <len_1304> W comes after S I guess.
[03:18] <skellat> I've registered a blueprint for UDS-1303: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
[03:20] <skellat> knome: I tagged you as approver for this but it is exceedingly general and vague enough so that, if approved for UDS, we can at least formally get some discussion on-record: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
[03:20]  * skellat wanders off
[10:36] <knome> skellat, thanks
[13:06] <suleyman> Hi. How can I donate Xubuntu?
[13:19] <knome> suleyman, at the moment, we're not taking donations, but you can direct the money to the xfce project, from which we directly benefit
[13:22] <suleyman> thank you.
[13:22] <knome> np
[18:20] <knome> bbl for the sprint
[20:58] <pleia2> home!
[20:58] <knome> woo!
[21:03] <pleia2> oh right, so sprint time :)
[21:03] <knome> yeah, it is
[21:03] <pleia2> I am getting settled in, lunch is on the counter, need to retrieve
[21:04] <knome> yeah, let's wait for some time to people to appear from darkness
[21:14] <knome> hmm, the question in which repo where xubuntu-desktop is never occurred to me
[21:15] <knome> though of course, universe is the natural choice.
[21:15]  * pleia2 nods
[21:16] <knome> i think we need to rethink which items we want to work on during the sprint due to the RR-discussion
[21:16] <knome> oh how it sucks that it's happening SOOOO close to FF.
[21:17] <pleia2> yeah, I think we should put off some things
[21:17] <pleia2> no use working on things that are usless if 13.04 never happens
[21:17] <knome> yup.
[21:20] <pleia2> alright knome, looks like just you and me for now
[21:20] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Sprints/2013-03-03-globaljam
[21:20] <knome> Unit193 is hiding too.
[21:21] <knome> * Update the "Documentation" section under "Get Involved" 
[21:21] <pleia2> I have no idea how translations will work without freezes (except every 2 years)
[21:22] <pleia2> SRU is probably worthwhile if LTS is the only release
[21:22] <Unit193> >_>
[21:22] <Unit193> No I'm not here.
[21:22] <pleia2> hi Unit193!
[21:22] <knome> yes...
[21:22] <knome> but i'd probably look at that too after vUDS
[21:23] <pleia2> yeah
[21:23] <pleia2> and re: 13.04 docs, well, if there is no 13.04...
[21:24] <pleia2> so I don't think we can do much with docs today
[21:24] <knome> i'll edit the wikipage shortly.
[21:24] <Unit193> Easier to keep them up than do it like last time.
[21:24] <pleia2> Unit193: only if it's not a moving target
[21:25] <Unit193> There is that little bit...
[21:25] <pleia2> can't very well start writing docs for 14.04 now, over a year away, we won't know what features it'll have
[21:25] <knome> yeah...
[21:25] <knome> while i don't want to go too deep in the RR discussion, i have to share this one:
[21:27] <knome> they say that the 6-month release schedule slows down development because there are so many freezes, but actually the 2-year release interval, it seems that many and again many teams are suffering because the next LTS target is unknown
[21:27] <knome> re: all libs and for xubuntu, xfce and all that kind of "little" stuff
[21:27] <pleia2> yeah
[21:28] <knome> you could argue there's no sense to make an effort to make something work every 6 months, but i think it does make even less sense to make something work "for now"
[21:29] <knome> ok, wikipage updated.
[21:29] <knome> are there others we simply want to postpone?
[21:29]  * pleia2 deep breath and looks
[21:30] <pleia2> we can work on marketing, website and artwork stuff
[21:30] <skellat> I need to get back to scripting but, after finishing that bloody hour-long video, Xubuntu and other flavors are left twisting in the breeze due to the RR discussion.  I logged that blueprint that has yet to be approved for UDS-1303 but we've really got nothing to go on.  I remain unsure if there will necessarily be an Ubuntu 13.04 released.
[21:30] <pleia2> how about testing?
[21:31] <knome> mm... i wouldn't want to do that
[21:31]  * pleia2 is trying to avoid more RR discussion this weekend, instead bought herself flowers and is working on Xfce
[21:31]  * knome looks at the release schedule
[21:31] <knome> ffst, NOT the precise one!
[21:31] <pleia2> hehe
[21:32] <knome> nah, i'd actually really want to postpone the testing stuff after uds
[21:32] <pleia2> ok
[21:32] <knome> that would be a lot of wasted time and energy, and not necessarily only mine
[21:32] <knome> it's already been some if 13.04 cancelled, so...
[21:32] <pleia2> yeah
[21:32] <knome> and bluesabre's :<
[21:33] <knome> i bought myself a good batch of beer too to not try to think the cruel world
[21:33] <pleia2> not sure where this article thing will land if the magazine doesn't have a 13.04 release to target
[21:33] <knome> yeah, i thougt about that too
[21:33] <pleia2> so there will have been a lot of wasted time to go around (including a whole week in copenhagen planning a release that never happens)
[21:33] <knome> but i decided to get more anxious about it only after UDS
[21:33] <skellat> pleia2: What sort of flowers did you buy?
[21:33]  * micahg waves, will brb
[21:33] <knome> though it was fun to be in copenhagen.
[21:34] <knome> and it was still beneficial
[21:34] <pleia2> skellat: a bouquet! http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8526044856/
[21:34] <knome> ...and there was some beer too, so definitely not non-fun
[21:34] <pleia2> beer++
[21:34] <knome> some of it almost looks like plastic
[21:34] <knome> the tulip and the green stuff at left front
[21:34] <pleia2> the flash does goofy things
[21:34] <pleia2> but they are real :)
[21:35] <knome> you mean adobe flash?
[21:35] <pleia2> no
[21:35] <skellat> The Nexus S has a camera flash?
[21:35] <pleia2> yep
[21:35] <pleia2> Nexus S camera is actually pretty good, aside from being slow
[21:36] <knome> do we want to postpone the docs stuff?
[21:36] <pleia2> yeah
[21:36] <knome> i mean, even the (back)port
[21:37] <pleia2> I think so, I don't want to start in on that and then realize we *will* have a 13.04 and then have two major projects on our hands
[21:37] <pleia2> if needed SRU can wait until after April
[21:37] <knome> mmh, right
[21:38] <knome> so in that case
[21:38] <maddernick> Hi
[21:38] <knome> i'd propose a following order
[21:38] <Unit193> By install http://pastebin.com/KP6r7N98   by vote: http://pastebin.com/R3tTiMRK
[21:38]  * micahg is here
[21:38] <knome> 1)  Update the "Documentation" section under "Get Involved" 
[21:39] <knome> 2)  Add "Products" page under the marketing resources
[21:39] <knome> 3)  Review and extend flyer content 
[21:39] <knome> 4)  Create a list of languages we want in the ISO (n most spoken for a starting point) 
[21:39] <knome> there's also the following items:
[21:40] <knome> *  Add launchers to the applications menu for Xubuntu.org (+contribute) 
[21:40] <knome> *  Work on the flyer drafts (artwork)
[21:40] <knome> micahg, does the launcher thing sound something you'd be willing to go ahead and do?
[21:40] <pleia2> the flyer stuff seems more like something you do privately and then we talk about later
[21:41] <pleia2> s/stuff/artwork
[21:41] <pleia2> we can talk about content :)
[21:41]  * pleia2 forgets what she wrote
[21:41] <micahg> where would it go?
[21:41] <knome> yeah, but if people who want to contribute to the artwork are around, they can do quick drafts and get feedback quickly
[21:42] <knome> micahg, next to "About Xfce" sounds good to me
[21:42] <knome> actually
[21:42] <pleia2> oh right, need to review "About Xubuntu" text too
[21:42] <maddernick> i just wanna ask if ochosi_ has reviewed the plymouth changes and what he thought, and if he thinks I could request a merge
[21:42] <pleia2> that was brought up on the list a while back, I said I'd do it
[21:42] <knome> pleia2, yeah, was just about to say that too
[21:42] <micahg> knome: sure, we can do that, would like mr_pouit's input to see if he minds first, but I could do that quickly
[21:43] <knome> the "Xubuntu" tab is actually "Xfce in Debian"
[21:43] <knome> pleia2, are you on the wikipage to add it or shall i?
[21:43] <pleia2> go for it
[21:44] <knome> done
[21:44]  * mr_pouit stops hiding then
[21:44] <knome> good good
[21:44] <knome> ;)=
[21:44] <mr_pouit> huhu
[21:44]  * skellat has to disappear to get the last bloody script done for podcast recording tonight but reminds about this blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
[21:45] <mr_pouit> micahg: I don't mind (I uploaded a new xubuntu-default-settings yesterday, I should have waited then)
[21:45] <micahg> mr_pouit: it's a quick build, it's not that bad
[21:46] <knome> i'll simply start working on the "doc on website" stuff now
[21:46] <knome> just do whatever you like! (:
[21:46]  * micahg has to go fix his chroots to build against -proposed now
[21:46] <knome> btw, hai jjfrv8 
[21:47]  * pleia2 stops goofing off
[21:48] <mr_pouit> micahg: I'm too lazy to do that, so I wait until it goes out of there if necessary :>
[21:48] <jjfrv8> Hi, knome 
[21:49] <pleia2> I wish there was an easier way to have people order stickers from moo.com (cafepress/zazzle like store)
[21:50] <micahg> mr_pouit: well, I stopped uploading after I was bit by a transition in -proposed (BTW, it's default for newly created chroots)
[21:50] <knome> pleia2, you mean like pre-designed stuff and users would only need to choose the amount ?
[21:51] <pleia2> knome: yeah
[21:51] <pleia2> instead of my current "go to this website, upload this design with the round stickers" method
[21:51] <knome> yeah
[21:51] <knome> that sucks
[21:51] <pleia2> but the quality of stickers on the other sites is meh :(
[21:51] <pleia2> moo is awesome
[21:52] <maddernick> Couldnt one make some sort of form-posting "proxy" for moo?
[21:52] <maddernick> that uploads the image, and then takes you there
[21:52] <pleia2> not from what I've seen
[21:53] <pleia2> best I can do is link to http://us.moo.com/products/round-stickers.html
[21:54] <knome> updated the doc page
[21:54]  * pleia2 works on some products page text
[21:55] <pleia2> :)
[21:56] <mr_pouit> micahg: I don't use stuff from ubuntu-dev-tools to create my chroots anyway (since the last time I used them they installed recommends and I had to file a bug, iceweasel in a chroot is no fun)
[21:56] <knome> mr_pouit, :>
[21:56] <maddernick> pleia2: http://us.moo.com/api/
[21:56] <maddernick> "You can use the API yourself, or provide a UI for your customers to use "
[21:57] <pleia2> maddernick: ah!
[21:57] <knome> maddernick, want to deal with that? ;)
[21:57] <pleia2> maddernick: thanks
[21:57] <maddernick> knome: i will look into it
[21:57] <knome> maddernick, like, right now (it doesn't sound like a complex thing)
[21:57] <maddernick> okay
[21:57] <knome> thanks
[21:57] <maddernick> as long as i dont need to sign up :P
[21:57] <knome> heh
[21:57] <knome> that would be awkward anyway,.
[21:57] <knome> -,
[21:58] <pleia2> I've already ordered a bunch from them so I don't mind using my account for it
[21:58] <knome> pleia2, i'm pretty sure eventually linking to something doesn't need any account
[21:58] <knome> but creating something with the api might
[21:59] <micahg> skellat: I'm very interested in Xubuntu on arm*, I think it would rock on that platform
[21:59] <pleia2> so what other products do we have besides stickers?
[21:59] <micahg> unfortunately, all I have is an old 800 mhz arm machine
[21:59] <pleia2> we'll have flyers
[21:59] <knome> pleia2, is the case badge issue fixed?
[22:00] <pleia2> knome: no, haven't had the budget to engage them for another order (same goes for tshirts)
[22:00] <knome> pleia2, meh. there isn't any possibility to work with them without throwing $100 at them again?
[22:00] <pleia2> yeah, I could just drop them an email without an order to see if there is anything they can do
[22:00] <pleia2> I'll do that now
[22:01] <knome> pleia2, i mean, the quality sucked, one would think they would be willing to do something about it to make you order again
[22:01] <knome> (especially since you're probably making *others* order from them as well)
[22:01] <knome> great, thanks
[22:02] <pleia2> yeah
[22:02] <micahg> knome: where's the link to contribute?
[22:03] <knome> micahg, here: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
[22:03] <micahg> knome: which icon and what should the title bw?
[22:03] <micahg> *be
[22:04] <maddernick> seems fairly easily done to do this, but yes, they dont seem to have any example keys, which makes this a bit annoying
[22:04] <knome> that's a good question
[22:04] <micahg> knome: menu list name and hover over name are required
[22:04] <knome> "Contribute to Xubuntu" or "Get Involved with Xubuntu"
[22:04] <knome> which one do you prefer?
[22:04] <maddernick> Someone will have to use their account for this :|
[22:05]  * micahg prefers Get Involved
[22:05] <micahg> but it's too long
[22:06] <knome> hover description: "Read about the different ways to help the Xubuntu team."
[22:06] <knome> maybe it could be more inspiring...
[22:06] <knome> "Read how you can make Xubuntu better!"
[22:06] <micahg> the contribute string is a good length (shorter than USC which is the largest item in the menu)
[22:07] <pleia2> ok, email sent
[22:07] <knome> hooray
[22:10] <maddernick> pleia2: "Round Stickers, Label Stickers, Holiday Cards, Greeting Cards and Christmas Cards are not currently supported through the API"
[22:10] <knome> hahah
[22:10] <knome> well done
[22:10]  * pleia2 headdesk
[22:10] <micahg> knome: do you want it below or above About Xfce?
[22:11] <pleia2> I could offer to send people stickers for free and then revise my decision if I end up getting a billion requests ;)
[22:11] <knome> i'd say both should go above (since the menu is opening, that makes them "before" it, right?)
[22:11] <pleia2> and say "or you can make your own like this"
[22:12] <knome> pleia2, "let pleia2 order you stickers and get them for free or go through the hassle to order them yourself and pay for them" ?
[22:12] <knome> mm, i'm quite certain you wouldn't get any request
[22:12] <knome> NOT
[22:12] <maddernick> Great deal!
[22:12] <pleia2> with different words that make them feel guilty for asking me :)
[22:13] <pleia2> and making clear it's limited and stuff
[22:13] <knome> haha
[22:13] <micahg> knome: so, between help and about xfce?
[22:13] <knome> micahg, umm, between "Xubuntu website" -link and "About Xfce"
[22:14] <micahg> hrm?
[22:14] <knome> we wanted two items added
[22:14] <knome> one for the main website, another for the contribute page
[22:15] <micahg> oh, hrm, missed that, what's the tagline, and title for the other?
[22:15] <knome> "Xubuntu website" -> "Learn more about Xubuntu on our website."
[22:15] <knome> pleia2, ^ agree?
[22:15] <micahg> so, Help, Xubuntu Website, Contribute to Xubuntu, About Xfce, Log Out
[22:16] <knome> yes
[22:16] <knome> :)
[22:16] <pleia2> sure
[22:17] <mr_pouit> we should name the entry "isdjjkqdsjkqd", because everyone will wonder what it is, click and end up on xubuntu.org
[22:17] <micahg> link to http://xubuntu.org
[22:17] <knome> oh pretty please include the closing / :)
[22:17] <knome> i'll get clinically mad if you don't
[22:18] <Unit193> Ooooh!  I like this idea!
[22:18]  * micahg wonders what knome would be like clinically mad...
[22:18] <knome> right.
[22:18] <knome> i mean *more* clinically mad
[22:18] <knome> O:)
[22:21] <micahg> could someone test a built package in a new user (guest account would work) to see if it DTRT in raring?
[22:22] <knome> somebody running raring?
[22:22] <mr_pouit> (or simply pick xfce-applications.menu and the desktop file on quantal)
[22:24] <knome> what about the firefox bookmarks?
[22:24] <knome> do we have these links there as well?
[22:24] <micahg> debs here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~micahg/xubuntu/
[22:25] <micahg> .changes has hashes
[22:25] <knome> (or can we affect those anyway? i believe it's controlled by ubufox)
[22:26] <micahg> yeah, we can't change the bookmarks ATM
[22:26] <knome> yup :(
[22:30] <knome> hmm...
[22:30] <knome> they appear in the middle of the categories
[22:31] <knome> the icons should probably be the xubuntu logo
[22:32] <micahg> what's the icon name for that
[22:34] <micahg> oops forgot to add layout as well
[22:34]  * pleia2 gets sucked into work stuff
[22:34] <pleia2> bah
[22:34]  * micahg confesses to having not really played with menus much
[22:34] <pleia2> openstack now has a new process for signing the CLA, woo
[22:35] <knome> micahg, lemme see
[22:35] <micahg> knome: so, if you give me the icon name, I'll rebuild the package
[22:35] <knome> pleia2, boo
[22:35]  * micahg fixed the layout
[22:36] <knome> well the menu icon name is distributor-logo
[22:37] <knome> (in places/*/, if you need that)
[22:40] <micahg> knome: thanks, new debs upload
[22:41] <knome> just a sec
[22:41] <knome> yeah, works now apart from the icons
[22:42] <knome> oh wait
[22:42] <knome> duh
[22:42] <knome> nvm
[22:43] <knome> yup, works
[22:44] <knome> thanks
[22:44] <knome> bbiab
[22:45] <mr_pouit> note that XFCE is now a recognized category (iirc)
[22:45] <knome> hmm
[22:45] <knome> what's your point
[22:46] <micahg> so, ok to upload, or should I just push?
[22:47] <mr_pouit> (in the desktop file, X-XFCE vs. XFCE, but both work anyway)
[22:47] <micahg> oh, should I change that before upload?
[22:47] <knome> ok for me to upload
[22:48] <mr_pouit> micahg: bah, we checked that it's ok with X-XFCE, so no need to change
[22:48] <micahg> ok
[22:52]  * micahg updates the GPLv2 link to make lintian happy
[23:00] <knome> heh
[23:00] <knome> again, bbiab
[23:00] <knome> or actually, a bit longer while
[23:00] <pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xq3alIj7ag0OvxInOF-9goD2I2z8o5z3uS53u5QKXKE/edit#heading=h.1vu8ysbzk5g8 for /products if you want to follow along at home
[23:00] <pleia2> (it's slow going, I keep getting distracted
[23:00] <pleia2> )
[23:02] <knome> sorry for poking :P
[23:05] <pleia2> :)
[23:06] <knome> brb.
[23:14] <pleia2> I forgot about these, they were fun http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/
[23:14] <pleia2> now to remember where I got them from :)
[23:14] <knome> heh
[23:14] <knome> the blue should go through the edge
[23:15] <knome> ...as i've said before
[23:15] <pleia2> ah, zazzle
[23:15] <pleia2> yeah, I don't think that was possible with zazzle
[23:15] <knome> BOO
[23:16] <knome> (not MOO)
[23:16] <pleia2> hehe
[23:17] <pleia2> looks like I can probably get them closer to being all blue in the front, but when you turn it around it'll still be white in the back
[23:17] <knome> that's still suboptimal if they can't guarantee 100% that they hit the center
[23:17] <knome> and i don't think they can.
[23:17] <pleia2> yeah
[23:18] <knome> not with that scale and price
[23:18] <knome> however, i can get another beer down the throat
[23:18] <knome> :]
[23:18] <knome> yummy oak-aged
[23:18] <pleia2> hehe
[23:22] <pleia2> http://www.zazzle.com/cr/design/pt-zazzle_button?dz=3fde4fd5-70c0-4dc1-95cf-2c942e97eaca&clone=true&pending=true&style=round_button&size=1.25&dv=4&view=front_square
[23:22] <pleia2> not the awesomest of URLs
[23:23] <knome> no
[23:23] <knome> meh.
[23:23] <pleia2> ok, no buttons
[23:23] <knome> i'm simply not happy about calling that official merchandise
[23:23]  * pleia2 nods
[23:25] <maddernick> Thats awesome, cmon, thats like a Star Trek communicator but with this logo
[23:25] <maddernick> I might order it :P
[23:25] <knome> feel free to
[23:25] <knome> but i don't think it's a good idea to get these out in large quantities unless we can be sure about the quality
[23:26] <maddernick> There must be some way of validating it
[23:26] <knome> a manufacturer that allows bleed, yes
[23:28] <pleia2> the quality is fine for what they are ;)
[23:29] <pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/ pretty!
[23:29] <pleia2> just they do have the white border
[23:30] <knome> yeah, but you're not a graphic designer by your trade...
[23:30] <pleia2> truth
[23:31] <knome> i mean
[23:31] <knome> those generally look fine
[23:31] <knome> and if somebody specifically comes asking for buttons, fine, tell them about those
[23:31] <pleia2> maybe I can put them on the wiki
[23:31] <knome> and it's ok to use them in events and so on and spread them
[23:31] <knome> but let's not call them official...
[23:31] <knome> just something "you can use"
[23:32] <knome> until we find a manufacturer that allows bleed
[23:32] <knome> that shouldn't be a problem at all
[23:32]  * pleia2 nods
[23:33] <knome> if you sent a design like that (want the white border on the back and side) to any commercial printer that asks you for a "normal" price, they advise you to rethink
[23:33] <knome> that's how bad it is
[23:37] <pleia2> knome: thoughts on what else we should add to this products page?
[23:38] <pleia2> and if it's just this, is it worthwhile yet?
[23:38] <pleia2> maybe we should wait for flyers...
[23:38] <knome> yeah, probably not worth it yet
[23:38] <knome> but it's good we got started with it
[23:38] <pleia2> next cycle (or whatever, you know) I should be able to start putting some $$ into t-shirt and other tests
[23:39] <pleia2> I can move this txt into a draft wordpress page so we don't lose it
[23:39] <knome> yeah, that would be good
[23:39] <pleia2> k
[23:39] <knome> do you still have time for stufF?
[23:39] <pleia2> yeah
[23:39] <knome> we could look at the flyer text or the about dialog
[23:39] <pleia2> oh yes
[23:39] <pleia2> where did I put it, did I email it to you or something?
[23:40] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Flyers
[23:40] <knome> wise girl
[23:40] <knome> should we work on that in gdocs?
[23:41] <pleia2> yeah
[23:42] <knome> will you move it? :)
[23:43] <pleia2> yeah
[23:43] <pleia2> ok, copied over products stuff and saved the draft
[23:43] <knome> ok
[23:43] <knome> i'll add a note that case badges are available for ordering later
[23:43] <knome> from not-elizabeth :P
[23:44] <pleia2> :)
[23:45] <knome> re: the ugly url for image
[23:45] <knome> if it would be possible to link somesubdomain.xubuntu.org to a server you have upload rights to, that would be optimal
[23:46] <pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WcujR5HnBbu7Lc28ICn6la_EEVEs_vt6NkjoYQSCRps/edit
[23:46] <knome> then we could have products.xubuntu.org/round-stickers.png or sth
[23:46] <pleia2> yeah
[23:46] <knome> and update when we need to
[23:46] <knome> and add other images
[23:46] <pleia2> think of working with IS on this kind of makes my head hurt
[23:46] <knome> i don't think things like that should be uploaded to WP anyway
[23:46] <knome> i can handle IS
[23:47] <pleia2> maybe just static.xubuntu.org or something
[23:47] <pleia2> where we can toss lots of stuff like this, maybe a .txt version of our strategy document too or something
[23:49] <knome> lol at gdocs bullet
[23:49] <knome> yeah, sure
[23:52] <drc> May I make a suggestion on the flyer?
[23:53] <knome> drc, yes.
[23:53] <knome> it is totally open for discussion
[23:53] <pleia2> it's ok to say "this is all wrong" too, I don't know what I'm doing so I won't be offended :)
[23:54] <drc> It's a flyer...the salient points should be understood at a glance (bullets, points something) Paragrapha (like pleia2 is editing now require <reading>.
[23:55]  * pleia2 nods
[23:55] <drc> Think a billboard you see driving down a high spreed road, you have just a few seconds to grab them and convay your message
[23:56] <drc> At least at the top of the flyer.  Once you have them down to the middle, you can make more complex statements.
[23:58] <drc> My thoughts anyway :)
[23:58] <pleia2> I love how I use phrases like "image processing" and "email client" - I am not normal user :)
[23:59] <knome> as i commented, i don't think it does much difference to mention the video player name
[23:59] <pleia2> knome: re: parole - because it's not a known product?
[23:59] <knome> no, not only that
[23:59] <knome> most people don't care what the player is called
[23:59] <pleia2> they would if it was VLC ;)
[23:59] <knome> yeah.