[00:00] <popey>         500 http://archive.canonical.com/ raring/partner amd64 Packages
[00:00] <AlanBell> I have held broken packages apparently so it is refusing to do anything
[00:00] <popey> ii  skype-bin      4.1.0.20.0-0 i386         client for Skype VOIP and instant
[00:01] <popey> do you have that magic dpkg setting which allows you to install i386 stuff?
[00:01] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache search skype-bin
[00:01] <popey> skype-bin - client for Skype VOIP and instant messaging service - binary files
[00:01] <popey> does that work?
[00:01] <AlanBell> I have an issue with ekiga being held back and   libloudmouth1-0 libpt2.10.9 installing and uninstalling
[00:01] <AlanBell> when I autoremove and dist-upgrade
[00:01]  * AlanBell removes ekiga
[00:02] <AlanBell> apt-cache search skype-bin works fine
[00:02] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583810/
[00:02] <popey> and apt-get install skype-bin:i386 works?
[00:03] <popey> something squiffy on your machine
[00:03] <popey> I have all of that stuff
[00:04] <AlanBell> yeah, I had it last week too
[00:11] <AlanBell> aptitude says: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583828/
[00:13] <AlanBell> aptitude's second solution is to remove 499 packages freeing up 3GB of space and installing nothing new \o/
[00:15] <popey> your machine looks ill
[00:16] <popey> apt-cache policy libx11-xcb1
[00:16] <popey> where'd that come from?
[00:16] <popey> er, apt-cache policy libx11-xcb1:i386
[00:17] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583836/
[00:18] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583837/
[00:18] <popey> what if you try to install that package manually with apt-get?
[00:18] <AlanBell> woah!
[00:19] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583839/
[00:19] <popey> wtf
[00:20] <popey> can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list
[00:20] <popey> and all /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list ?
[00:20] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583842/
[00:20] <popey> deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ raring-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
[00:21] <popey> you shouild _not_ have that enabled
[00:21] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583843/
[00:21] <popey> that _may_ be the cause
[00:22] <popey> can you remove it and update
[00:22] <AlanBell> gosh, proposed does seem a bit brave
[00:22] <popey> no human is supposed to use it
[00:22] <popey> in the development release
[00:23] <AlanBell> I am mostly human, so I will remove it
[00:24] <AlanBell> sudo apt-get update and dist-upgrade, didn't do much and still can't install stuff
[00:24] <popey> same issue with skype?
[00:25] <AlanBell> yeah, just installing ekiga back again so generally installing things is OK
[00:27] <AlanBell> basically all the :i386 stuff is upset with me, but proper 64bit things are fine
[00:29] <popey> does dpkg know you can install i386
[00:30] <popey> dpkg --add-architecture i386
[00:30] <popey> then update
[00:30] <AlanBell> dpkg --print-foreign-architectures returns i386
[00:30] <popey> ok
[00:31] <popey> sudo apt-get --reinstall install libx11-xcb1:i386
[00:31] <popey> that works forme
[00:31] <AlanBell> that offers to remove 346 innocent bystanders for me
[00:31] <popey> hmmm
[00:32] <popey> how odd
[00:32] <AlanBell> The following NEW packages will be installed libx11-xcb1:i386 phonon-backend-null
[00:32] <AlanBell> who is phonon-backend-null?
[00:32] <popey> not installed here
[00:33] <AlanBell> I can install it, dunno why it wants to bring that in
[00:34] <popey> something squiffy here
[00:34] <popey> first thing I'd do is backup/move your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list out the way
[00:34] <popey> and then sudo apt-get update
[00:35] <popey> then see if you can install it, so you're down to just the main archive
[00:35]  * AlanBell tries that
[00:35] <AlanBell> same problem
[00:36] <popey> how odd
[00:41] <AlanBell> think I got bit by something in -proposed
[00:44] <popey> we need to figure out what came in from proposed
[00:45] <popey> apt-cache policy | grep proposed
[00:45] <popey> does that return anything at all?
[00:45] <AlanBell> no
[00:46] <AlanBell> from the aptitude output I think it might be libqtwebkit4 and libx11-6
[00:46] <popey> what versions of those do you have?
[00:46] <AlanBell> libx11-6 Installed: 2:1.5.0-1ubuntu1
[00:47] <popey> libqtwebkit4  Installed: 2.2.1-4ubuntu1
[00:47] <popey> libx11-6: Installed: 2:1.5.0-1
[00:48] <AlanBell> I just removed libqtwebkit4 and I am readding it
[00:48] <sebsebseb> popey: where's the next OGG Camp? :D
[00:48] <popey>   libx11-6 |  2:1.5.0-1 |        raring | amd64, armhf, i386, powerpc
[00:48] <popey>   libx11-6 | 2:1.5.0-1ubuntu1 | raring-proposed | amd64, armhf, powerpc
[00:48] <popey> yes, rmadison libx11-6 confirms
[00:48] <popey> sebsebseb: no idea
[00:49] <sebsebseb> popey: around the same time of August again I guess?
[00:49] <popey> pass
[00:49] <sebsebseb> oh I thought you helped decide stuff ike that
[00:49] <popey> I have had no conversations about it
[00:49] <popey> i do sometimes
[00:49] <popey> unlikely to this year though
[00:49] <sebsebseb> oh how come?
[00:49] <popey> way too busy with Ubuntu Phone & Tablet...
[00:50] <sebsebseb> oh I see to  help organise OGG Camp as well you mean?
[00:50] <popey> yeah
[00:50] <popey> too busy
[00:50] <sebsebseb> popey: well we'll see how that goes
[00:50] <sebsebseb> Android could do with some good competiton
[00:51] <popey> indeed
[00:51] <sebsebseb> in fact I was thinking about it earlier a bit how they say there's like 700 thousand or so apps for it
[00:51] <sebsebseb> in the Google app store, but
[00:51] <sebsebseb> 1. we won't know what most of those apps are I guess since to many
[00:51] <sebsebseb> 2. on my phone anyway,  I coudn't seem to search the app store that well really
[00:51] <AlanBell> popey: is there anything I can do to downgrade libx11-6 or do I just wait for whatever transition is sitting in proposed to land?
[00:51] <popey> yes
[00:52] <popey> apt-get install packagename=version
[00:52] <popey> sudo apt-get install libx11-6=2:1.5.0-1
[00:52] <sebsebseb> popey: it's not quite like Synaptic or Software Centre or something like that,  you just search really well and :)  yes can search, but not quite the same
[00:52] <popey> or sudo apt-get install libx11-6/raring
[00:53] <popey> sebsebseb: i rarely search the app store
[00:53] <popey> I tend to install stuff when I hear about an app on a blog post or news article
[00:53] <AlanBell> ok, that is going to rip out some mildly annoying stuff (like compiz) but I think I can get it all back again
[00:53] <popey> rip out or downgrade?
[00:53] <AlanBell> remove
[00:53] <sebsebseb> popey: right I see yeah,  well I got a new phone so
[00:53] <popey> so add compiz/raring
[00:53] <popey> AlanBell: hang on...
[00:53] <AlanBell> too late ;)
[00:54] <sebsebseb> popey: well not new for that much longer asi n the phone itself, nearly time for Galaxy S4's now
[00:54] <sebsebseb> would have got a Nexus probably, but weren't on sale at the time so
[00:54] <popey> AlanBell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583900/
[00:54] <popey> do that
[00:54] <sebsebseb> Nexus 4
[00:54] <popey> it reverts all unity/compiz packages back to /raring
[00:54] <popey> its handy if you have added manky PPAs
[00:55] <popey> It'll be quite refreshing to have an Ubuntu phone with only a few apps :D
[00:55]  * AlanBell installs skype
[00:55] <sebsebseb> popey: yeah in a way there can be to many apps as well maybe
[00:55] <sebsebseb> popey: I mean like I said earlier 700 thousand apps or whatever for Android
[00:55] <sebsebseb> uhmm we won't even know what most of those are
[00:56] <sebsebseb> Ubuntu Phone needs Skype idealy to though :d
[00:56]  * AlanBell runs skype \o/
[00:56] <popey> all sorted?
[00:56] <sebsebseb> AlanBell: sure, but not on Ubuntu Phone ?
[00:56]  * AlanBell likes having awesome repositories and an awesome popey to help fix them \o/
[00:56] <popey> heh
[00:56] <sebsebseb> reminds me I Found out about a good Skype altenraive the other day
[00:56] <sebsebseb> or well looks like it from site :d
[00:57] <AlanBell> sebsebseb: no, not on the phone
[00:57] <sebsebseb> open source yeah
[00:57] <sebsebseb> turns out they had a stand at FOSDEM to, but don't think I went there
[00:57] <sebsebseb> to the stand
[00:57] <AlanBell> I don't like skype much but I wanted the last 30 days of chat history
[00:58] <AlanBell> night all o/
[00:58] <sebsebseb> AlanBell: popey Not tried it yet msyelf, but I guess this is probably quite a good open source Skype and so on alternative :d https://jitsi.org/
[00:58] <sebsebseb> for just voice there's mumble as well
[00:59] <popey> nn AlanBell
[01:00] <popey> with a name like Jitsi it makes me think it will be a java app
[01:00] <sebsebseb> popey: yep bingo it is
[01:00] <sebsebseb> and it had other names in the past as well
[01:00] <sebsebseb> if you read the site
[01:00] <popey> ew
[01:01] <popey> also, no updates for nearly a year
[01:01] <popey> https://download.jitsi.org/jitsi/debian/
[01:01] <sebsebseb> popey: yeah, but they had a stand at FOSDEM 2013
[01:01] <sebsebseb> and there was a blog post or two from this year
[01:01] <sebsebseb> didn't know about the stand untill after
[01:01] <sebsebseb> didn't know about the project untill after that event to
[01:01] <sebsebseb> yep I went
[01:02] <sebsebseb> popey: and last year, I didn't know about the Open Suse beer for like one euro untill after the event to, ah well
[01:02] <sebsebseb> maybe they had some this year, but didn't end up at that stand and a few others, since the timing of stuff
[01:03] <popey> but it's SIP
[01:03] <popey> SIP is no cometition to Skype
[01:03] <sebsebseb> yep it does SIP and XMPP
[01:03] <sebsebseb> and it can support Skype it seems going by featureas
[01:03] <sebsebseb> it's a open source program
[01:05] <popey> doesn't even start here
[01:05] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5583923/
[01:05] <sebsebseb> popey: Java isn't exactly liked by quite a lot of people now it seems
[01:05] <sebsebseb> espeically since Oracale owneded them it seems
[07:53] <kvarley> How do I find out what audio chipset I have?
[07:54] <kvarley> lspci | grep Audio returns some generic stuf
[07:54] <kvarley> I know I have Intel HDA but not what version
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: /proc/asound/cards should help
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: and /proc/asound/cardX/codec#Y
[07:54] <kvarley> Realtek ALC887-VD
[07:56] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks :)
[08:43] <jacobw> morning
[09:02] <einonm> Morning!
[09:14] <diplo> Morning all
[09:32] <JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :-D
[09:32] <dwatkins> woot
[09:32] <dwatkins> no, wait...
[09:54] <NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm trying to enable an sftp only user on an ubuntu box
[09:54] <NET||abuse> I'm having trouble getting it to work.
[09:56] <creakybore> one way is to change the shell - look at something like https://github.com/scponly/scponly/wiki
[09:57] <creakybore> or rash at http://pizzashack.org/rssh/ which is perhaps easier
[09:58] <creakybore> and cleaner as the rssh shell is included (damn auto correct rssh into rash)
[09:58] <NET||abuse> well i've followed a generic route of modifying /etc/sshd_config to use Subsystem sftp internal-sftp
[09:58] <creakybore> ah damn autocreater
[09:58] <NET||abuse> then i add the Match Group sftponly  with the chroot stuff and ForceCommand internal-sftp
[09:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:58] <creakybore> go here --> http://pizzashack.org/rssh/
[09:58] <NET||abuse> but the user has no home directory, ahh, i need to explicityly tell the system to use a cert for that user.
[09:59] <creakybore> hang on
[09:59] <NET||abuse> how do you do that for auser without a home.
[10:00] <creakybore> go http://troy.jdmz.net/rsnapshot/ scroll down to Restricting the key (not vert)
[10:00] <creakybore> not certificate even
[10:00] <NET||abuse> yeh, the sshd_config has PasswordAuthentication no    so i have to use a cert for all users.
[10:00] <NET||abuse> I have the cert already.
[10:01] <NET||abuse> it's an aws instance
[10:01] <creakybore> not certificate, a private/public key
[10:01] <NET||abuse> yeh, what i meant
[10:01] <NET||abuse> i have that already.
[10:01] <creakybore> makes no difference is AWS, VM or local bare-metal - same principle
[10:01] <NET||abuse> yup,
[10:01] <NET||abuse> just reading that segment
[10:02] <creakybore> so in restricting the key, you would put
[10:03] <creakybore> the full pathname of the SCP binary
[10:03] <creakybore> sftp
[10:03] <NET||abuse> this is client side only, i know how to connect to the server with the key
[10:04] <NET||abuse> sftp -I /pth/to/key.pem
[10:04] <creakybore> well, ssh would be
[10:04] <directhex> i've never done certificate-based auth with ssh
[10:04] <directhex> only key-based
[10:04] <creakybore> ssh -p XX -i key.file
[10:05] <NET||abuse> oppollogies, lower i
[10:05] <creakybore> scp -P xx -i key.file
[10:05] <NET||abuse> :
[10:05] <creakybore> sftp -p xx -i key.file
[10:05] <NET||abuse> yeh, i just get a message saying Connection closed
[10:06] <creakybore> did you set correct permissions on user home dir and .ssh folder and files?
[10:06] <MartijnVdS> Connection closed by foreign host? Could mean your host isn't in /etc/hosts.allow (or IS in /etc/hosts.deny)
[10:06] <NET||abuse> just reading /var/log/auth.log
[10:06] <NET||abuse> on the log on server i just get     Disconnecting: Too many authentication failures for madgex [preauth]
[10:06] <creakybore> do this from the account or root
[10:06] <NET||abuse> user is madgex
[10:07] <creakybore> {as user}
[10:07] <creakybore> cd ; ls -ld . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys
[10:07] <creakybore> chmod go-w . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys
[10:07] <NET||abuse> creakybore: this on the server?
[10:07] <NET||abuse> or on my local machine?
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> eys
[10:07] <creakybore> yes on the server, in the users home directory
[10:08] <NET||abuse> on server, well, madgex user has no home directory
[10:08] <creakybore> you should of made a .ssh sub directory with their key
[10:08] <NET||abuse> hmm, unless the upload directory is considered the home for this user.
[10:08] <creakybore> no
[10:09] <creakybore> the user key file (must be called authlrized_keys) must go in to /home/user/.ssh
[10:09] <creakybore> and must have correct file permissions
[10:09] <NET||abuse> yeh, but htere is no /home/madgex/ directory
[10:09] <MartijnVdS> creakybore: or whatever other directory is specified in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[10:10] <NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: how would i specify the key for this user or all users under the Match Group block to use the key?
[10:10] <NET||abuse> via the /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[10:10] <NET||abuse> ?
[10:10] <creakybore>  what is the users home directory as per /etc/passwd
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: I don't think that's easy.. sshd still checks permissions
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: what do you want to do?
[10:10] <MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
[10:10] <NET||abuse> madgex:x:1001:1001::/var/opt/updatesys/upload:/bin/sh
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
[10:11] <creakybore> ok so under /var/opt/updatesys create .ssh and put authorized_key in that - you can have more than one entry (i.e. user key) in authorized_keys
[10:11] <NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: madgex is intended as an sftp only user, is member of group sftponly and under sshd_config i have Match Group sftponly     ChrootDirectory %h and ForceCommand internal-sftp
[10:12] <creakybore> cd /var/opt/updatesys ; ls -ld . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys ; chmod go-w . .ssh .ssh/authorized_keys
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> If you don't want the user to be able to modify the ssh authorized keys, you'll have to do some more interesting things with sshd_config
[10:12] <MartijnVdS> man sshd_config + some ServerFault browsing might be in order
[10:12] <NET||abuse> been doing alot of that,
[10:13] <NET||abuse> seems very surface level information available from the examples there.
[10:14] <NET||abuse> creakybore: i think updatesys/upload is actually the user home, so it would have to put .ssh into upload
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: the manual has all the puzzle pieces, if you want to do something complex, you'll have to LEGO it together yourself ;)
[10:14] <NET||abuse> unless i move the home for that user back to /var/opt/updatesys then in sshd_config ChrootDirectory %h/upload
[10:15] <NET||abuse> then the sftp login won't see the .ssh directory but auth will pick it up
[10:15] <NET||abuse> hopefully.
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> yes but then you can't ssh as "normal" user anymore, can you?
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> it should only apply to users in a specific group
[10:15] <NET||abuse> don't want to ssh as normal under sftponly user
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> sure, but can you have per-user sshd configs? because if you put that in sshd_config, ssh'ing as "yourself" or "root" will chroot to ~/upload as well
[10:15] <NET||abuse> hmm, how to modify user home directory.
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: vipw
[10:16] <NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: it's under a Match Group sftponly       block
[10:16] <NET||abuse> so this is all only applied if your a member of that group
[10:16] <NET||abuse> so i only have this one user as that
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: ah, didn't know those existed.. must be new :)
[10:16] <NET||abuse> i think you can do Match User madgex     forexample also.
[10:17] <NET||abuse> articles showing that sshd_config entry going back years. doesn't seem new
[10:21] <MartijnVdS> apt-get install vim-shiny ;)
[10:21] <NET||abuse> shiney?
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> yeah... every file it edits ends up looking shiny and new again!
[10:22] <NET||abuse> uhh, typo.. shiny,, is that a firefly vim ?
[10:31]  * BigRedS has uefi
[10:31]  * BigRedS wants his bios back
[10:33] <directhex> BIOS. because all booting computers in 2013 should rely on having a complete implementation of a 16-bit Intel 8086 in the silicon, to run their 16-bit 8086 assembly boot loader
[10:34]  * popey increments the Program Counter
[10:35] <BigRedS> directhex: Not saying it's *better*, but it does reliably boot ISOs I've downloaded off the net
[10:35] <directhex> BigRedS, so set your system to boot via BIOS emulation, in the UEFI setup
[10:36] <directhex> since most ISOs aren't valid EFI images. yet.
[10:36] <BigRedS> nah, I've found that the raring daily CD sort-of boots, so I'm going with that for now
[10:36] <BigRedS> Given UEFI I feel I should probably use it, since it's going to be one of those things where I should be used ot all the inconsistencies and daft ideas
[10:36] <SuperMatt> so, passwords
[10:36] <SuperMatt> I'm thinking keepass + ubuntu one
[10:37] <SuperMatt> any downsides to this method?
[10:37] <diplo> SuperMatt: I use that, apart from it's Dropbox in my case
[10:37] <diplo> I sync to my phone aswell
[10:37] <diplo> And use keepassdroid on there
[10:37] <SuperMatt> also: how do I make keepass not look ugly on my desktop?
[10:38] <diplo> As in?
[10:38] <directhex> rewrite it to not be a winforms app
[10:38] <directhex> keepassx is one such project
[10:38] <SuperMatt> I see
[10:39] <diplo> There are other apps that use Keepass DB if you want to try them, can't remember them off hand though
[10:39] <kvarley> Can you not style keypassx via a qt theme?
[10:40] <directhex> yeah, but that's the point
[10:40] <directhex> keepassx is qt
[10:40] <directhex> keepass is winforms
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> but .. but ..
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> keepassx should be plain xlib
[10:40] <diplo> ah i use keepassx
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> qeepass or qtkeepass should be qt!
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> an keepass should be KDE
[10:42] <popey> I use a plain text document to store my passwords
[10:42] <popey> gpg encrypted of course
[10:42] <mungbean> SuperMatt: don't store your key on ubuntu one too
[10:42] <shauno> I use post-its
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: I do that.. Vim's gpg plugin makes it quite transparent
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> shauno: under your keyboard?
[10:43] <mungbean> I use keepassX + password + private key
[10:43] <shauno> MartijnVdS: *everywhere*.  I swear they breed when I'm not home
[10:43] <mungbean> the keepass kdb can stay on u1
[10:43] <mungbean> but not the key
[10:43] <SuperMatt> mungbean: oh, I won't
[10:43] <popey> yeah, my password file is in u1
[10:51] <SuperMatt> popey: how do you sync with your phone? u1 android client?
[10:51] <popey> ios u1 client
[10:51] <popey> android is for losers ;)
[10:51] <SuperMatt> pfft
[10:52] <NET||abuse> got that thing working by bending to the wills of ssh, moved user account to their own normal /home directory and symlinked a upload directory from their home to the updateasys/ directory,
[10:52] <mungbean> poor troll attempt popey :)
[10:52] <directhex> now now, that's not fair. android and ios are *both* for losers. /me flees
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> directhex: yeah, S40 OS 4 LIFE
[10:53] <NET||abuse> so it's all contained in their home, and the system's schedule will pull stuff out of /home/madgex/upload  to be used,, now, setting correct mask for sftp user so other schedule running user can access uploaded files..
[11:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
[11:07] <NET||abuse> think i'm finally recovered now, a full week later after phpuk13
[11:08] <NET||abuse> was like a zombie all last week and even this weekend.
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> PHP is bad for you? :P
[11:10] <NET||abuse> lol,, ahh was a really fun conference
[11:10] <NET||abuse> i got mega drunk, I had beers, several
[11:11] <NET||abuse> But all was in good spirit, nothing untoward happened.
[11:12] <NET||abuse> just waiting on video releases now from the talks. I was volunteering on tracks so couldn't see what i wanted.
[11:27] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :) What's happening today?
[11:27]  * Laney accidently wrote "xnox" on his notepad instead of "Xsession"
[11:29] <bigcalm> Exciting
[11:31] <xnox> Laney: just wait for your girlfriend to start questioning what's on your mind ;-)
[11:32] <Laney> mmm latvian men
[11:32]  * Laney coughs
[11:32] <xnox> Jono doesn't know how to pronounce xnox, and hence said 'X.N.O.X.' on google on air hangout.
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> eggs-nogs?
[11:33] <xnox> MartijnVdS: yeah, sounds very much like that.
[11:33] <czajkowski> xnox: wondered was he talking about you
[11:33] <MartijnVdS> Or more like "snogs" with an X?
[11:33] <czajkowski> cant be more than one of you :)
[11:33] <xnox> Laney: to be fair you are excused, i did promise latvian beer to you.
[11:35] <popey> \o/ Latvian Men
[11:35] <popey> late to the latvian men party, sorry.
[11:36] <Laney> there's plenty enough to go around
[11:36] <popey> \o/
[11:36] <popey> I cooked a joint of pork overnight in the slow cooker
[11:36] <popey> it is completly nommy
[11:40] <Laney> recipe pls
[11:41] <directhex> i have burritos for dinner, made with my yummy home-made carnitas
[11:41] <directhex> which are slow cooked, but not in the slow cooker
[11:42] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dYj4utgLq4
[11:42] <popey> a bit like that
[11:44] <Laney> that is one huge shoulder
[11:45] <directhex> http://forums.hexus.net/hexus-hotpot-cookery-discussion/211986-carnitas-recipe-stolen-reddit-do-now.html#post2151910
[11:52] <BigRedS> Hm. Just installed raring, installer worked fine but now I've booted in it's not detecting my keyboard or my mouse...
[11:52] <BigRedS> Though I can't think how to interact with this in suh a way as to fix it...
[11:54] <directhex> buy an OCZ brainwave-based controller, use that
[12:01] <diplo> anyone use a Reddit App on their Android phone, if so can you recommend one.. seems a fair few :)
[12:01] <mgdm> diplo: I just go to i.reddit.com
[12:02] <diplo> I actually hadn't tried that, new phone that works, will take a look now ta
[12:06] <BigRedS> I use bacon reader
[12:06] <BigRedS> can't recommend it having not used anything else, but it seems fine to me
[12:06] <diplo> ah that's in the top 2, watching vid now
[13:21] <neuro_> bonga bonga
[13:21] <neuro_> ooh, i have an underscore
[13:21] <neuro_> that's not good
[13:22] <neuro_> hmm, someone in the ukraine is using my nick
[13:22] <neuro_> tut tut
[13:23]  * MartijnVdS watches the banhammer
[13:26] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: feeling better?
[13:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> not much
[13:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Still coughing and sniffing
[13:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> rib hurts
[13:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> big toe is black
[13:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> back aches
[13:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Other than that I'm fine.
[13:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> big toe is black? Frostbite?
[13:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - nope - nearly ripped the toe off putting on a ski boot
[13:28] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer is considerd properly ill when it is so bad that a curry and a scotch doesn't fix it
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> ouch
[13:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> (nail)
 Penalty of 0 days, 07:35:00 added to your timer for nick change.
[13:32] <neuro> damn
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> IdleBot?
[13:32] <neuro> #idlerpg
[13:32] <neuro> it's an rpg you play by idling on irc
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[13:39] <sebsebseb> hi TheOpenSourcerer
[13:40] <sebsebseb> AlanBell: you going to online UDS tommorow?
[13:43] <AlanBell> probably not, but I will catch up on some interesting recordings afterwards
[13:48] <sebsebseb> AlanBell: I took part in two of the old ones remotly or maybe more a bit, but got to register for this one and uh
[14:12] <redtape-renegade> sebsebseb: I take it you were at FOSEDM '13 this year ?? I went last year, how was it IYHO ??
[15:02] <sebsebseb> redtape-renegade: what's IHYHD ?
[15:03] <sebsebseb> IYHO even
[15:03] <sebsebseb> oh
[15:03] <sebsebseb> In My Humble Opinion ?
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> IMNSHO
[15:03] <sebsebseb> MartijnVdS: In My Not So Humble Opinion ?
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> ack
[15:10]  * Laney is edgy waiting for a call from evans to say that he can go test ride his new bike
[15:10] <Laney> have had one call from ecotricity trying to sell me green energy and one from my letting agent
[15:28] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/03/hp-launch-ubuntu-all-in-one-pc-for-349
[15:29] <sebsebseb> popey: how can you link to that unoffical source :D  your meant to only be linking to http://planet.ubuntu.com and stuff like that :d  JOKE
[15:29] <popey> you're not the first person to say that actually
[15:30] <sebsebseb> well I was saying as a joke anyway JOno has been commenting on there for eaxmple and Jorge Castro
[15:30] <popey> as does Mark Shuttleworth
[15:30] <sebsebseb> actsauly Jorge Castro guest starred to post about Unity for a bit
[15:30] <sebsebseb> oh not seen Shuttleworth post on there
[15:30] <popey> many of us comment there, it's a valuable resource for getting news on what's new and shiny
[15:30] <sebsebseb> yeah, but so is webupdate8d
[15:31] <popey> some of us even learn new stuff about ubuntu
[15:31] <popey> yeah, there's a lot of sites like it, like iloveubuntu
[15:31] <popey> i guess those are the three main ones
[15:31] <sebsebseb> GNOME has a good one now days to :)  http://worldofgnome.com
[15:31] <popey> Error 137 (net::ERR_NAME_RESOLUTION_FAILED): Unknown error.
[15:31] <sebsebseb> uh .org actualy
[15:31] <sebsebseb> http://worldofgnome.org
[15:32] <popey> when you say "good" you mean "full of utter crack"?
[15:32] <sebsebseb> nope been  quite some good blog posts on there
[15:32] <popey> http://worldofgnome.org/waka-waka-this-time-for-canonical/
[15:32] <popey> makes no sense
[15:33] <sebsebseb> popey: oh not seen that one
[15:34] <sebsebseb> popey: ok that's just coincidence I mention/recommend here, on the same day, they seem to put some junk up about Canonical hmm
[15:35] <dogmatic69> is it possible to use variables in .ssh/config?
[15:35] <sebsebseb> popey: from a skim therough seems like someone got into their site or something
[15:36] <sebsebseb> popey: When I said good, I meant ones such as this one: http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-classic-not-classic-all/
[15:38] <sebsebseb> popey: or this one: http://worldofgnome.org/shell-3-8-features-ctrl-will-never-escape-overview/
[15:43] <sebsebseb> http://worldofgnome.org/welcome-to-gnome-3-8-flintstones-mode/
[15:48] <ali1234> i think that blog might be lost in translation
[15:50] <davmor2> popey: you mean OMG!Ubuntu isn't the official new channel for Ubuntu?   Are you sure...... ;)
[15:51] <mgdm> I still hate that site's name
[15:52] <popey> heh
[15:52] <davmor2> mgdm: You mean you still see the  OMG! bit
[15:53] <mgdm> Yeah
[15:53] <mgdm> I avoid links that go to it, so I've no idea what the content is like, but I have an idea
[15:54] <sebsebseb> mgdm: yep not so keen on the name either, but works well for a fans site realy
[15:54] <ali1234> fluff pieces about upcoming ubuntu features basically
[15:56] <sebsebseb> mgdm: generaly the smaller not so popular one is better: http://webupd8.org
[15:56] <sebsebseb> mgdm: espeically if on about comments, rather than blog posts themselves
[15:56] <mgdm> ah ha
[15:58] <sebsebseb> popey: so do I really have to register to take part in online UDS probably a bit tommorow?  me take part in online UDS?  ,but I moved away to another distro didn't I?  Yeah, but still keep an eye on some of the Ubuntu community stuff and such here and there.  Quite general to Desktop Linux :)
[15:58]  * sebsebseb hasn't logged into his Launchpad account since like 2005 or something, so has a feeling he may not be able to anymore
[15:59] <popey> we don't delete old lp accounts
[15:59] <sebsebseb> true, but  depending on what email it's set up with
[15:59] <sebsebseb> I may not have access to that email address anymore
[16:00] <sebsebseb> I have a feeling it's under one I may not have access to anymore
[16:00] <sebsebseb> hi zleap
[16:00] <zleap> hi
[16:00] <sebsebseb> popey: also when I looked the other day seems some new system will repleace Launchpad accounts
[16:01] <davmor2> sebsebseb: where did you get that from?
[16:01] <sebsebseb> davmor2: what the new account thing?
[16:01] <davmor2> sebsebseb: yeap
[16:02] <popey> login.ubuntu.com
[16:02] <mgdm> popey: do you know if it's possible to buy a laptop from Lenovo with Ubuntu preinstalled?
[16:02] <sebsebseb> some page when I was looking about if I could log back in etc
[16:02] <ali1234> er... yeah, so do i have to register just to watch the streams and be on irc?
[16:02] <sebsebseb> ali1234: bingo that's what I am wondering
[16:02] <popey> mgdm: pass
[16:02] <davmor2> popey: LP has been using it's own skin to USSO for ages
[16:02] <ali1234> whatever, i'll just register. not like it costs anything.
[16:02] <sebsebseb> ali1234: with the old  remote side of UDS, it was just turn up in IRC, and watch or hear the online stream
[16:02] <sebsebseb> and see the pads on a site
[16:03] <ali1234> you had to be granted pad access
[16:03] <ali1234> but i never really found that bit to be of any use
[16:03] <sebsebseb> ali1234: I think once they let anyone edit, but probably got changed after
[16:03] <ali1234> yeah you only had to ask for permission and most active lp peple probably already had it though teams
[16:03] <sebsebseb> ah yes I edited a pad once for some reason I Think, but then my changes got removed soon after
[16:04] <davmor2> ali1234: it also allows you to tag yourself as attending sessions not sure if that is still in place though now
[16:04] <ali1234> well i'll just be drifting in and out i guess
[16:04] <sebsebseb> popey: so if I can't have access to the email address my old luanchpad account is under anymore, I Got to get a new one really?
[16:04] <popey> sebsebseb: launchpad support can help
[16:05] <sebsebseb> popey: may be under the hotmail one I still use rarely for  instant messaing maybe,  and  to see the  spam heh heh
[16:05] <sebsebseb> that goes quite a lot of years
[16:05] <sebsebseb> ,but may be under this other one I lost access to as well so
[16:05] <sebsebseb> goes back quite a lot of years, above
[16:05] <popey> ask in #launchpad
[16:05] <sebsebseb> popey: yeah I'll see if I can get into it first
[16:05] <popey> if you need something changed/reset
[16:06] <sebsebseb> online UDS could be slighlty interesting yeah
[16:06] <sebsebseb> plus seeing Richard Stallman doing a talk later this month
[16:06] <sebsebseb> and some other stuff giong on this month, March  should be alright :d
[16:07] <ali1234> are there really people who have not seen that talk??
[16:07] <directhex> urgh, rms talk :/
[16:07] <directhex> has he ever updated it since the 80s?
[16:07] <sebsebseb> about copyright and community
[16:07] <sebsebseb> the one I am seeing
[16:07] <ali1234> directhex: not really no
[16:07] <directhex> "assign all your copyright to the fsf, and go cry if you decide you're unhappy with how we deal with you"?
[16:07] <sebsebseb> apparnatly meant to see him talk at  least once really
[16:08] <sebsebseb> so people say basically
[16:08] <ali1234> yeah i do not regret seeing the talk
[16:08] <sebsebseb> apparnatly some people get insulsted from the audiance after not long to
[16:08] <ali1234> there are always a few hecklers
[16:09] <ali1234> in the qa section they always ask the same questions and he is quite well prepared for it now
[16:09] <sebsebseb> oh
[16:09] <sebsebseb> ali1234: well should be fun  :)
[16:10] <directhex> i'd rather go to the pub with people who have contributed something to foss in the last 2 decades then watch rms talk. but maybe i just don't like the man.
[16:10] <sebsebseb> directhex: if it wasn't for RMS lots of stuff
[16:10] <ali1234> well i wouldn't go see him again
[16:10] <kvarley-laptop> I can't mount a partition on a laptop. dmesg | tail output here http://paste.ubuntu.com/5585451/ Is this down to a partition failure?
[16:10] <sebsebseb> well like I said at least once
[16:10] <sebsebseb> meant to see him apparnatly
[16:10] <ali1234> but i can go to the pub anytime
[16:11] <directhex> kvarley, no, that's physical disk failure
[16:12] <kvarley-laptop> directhex: I'm currently chatting to you from xubuntu running off a partition on the drive =/
[16:12] <kvarley-laptop> directhex: Any way to test if I can recover any data from it?
[16:12] <popey> could be cable failure
[16:12] <directhex> kvarley, you could force it to be usable by forcing the mount to use a backup superblock (extX seeds them every few tens of thousands of blocks), but it's definitely a physical error
[16:12] <ali1234> and of course you are going to meet up with other foss developers who are not RMS in the after session drinking, if that's your thing
[16:12] <directhex> yeah, could be cable. could be disk
[16:12] <popey> i had that on a disk which wasn't seated properly
[16:12] <sebsebseb> ali1234: he'll be the next famous or famous enough person  in the opensource/freesoftware world I have seen do a talk or met :d
[16:12] <kvarley-laptop> popey: It's in a laptop that hasn't moved for a while
[16:13] <ali1234> sebsebseb: other than perhaps the top 5 kernel devs... i don;t think there are any others more famous than RMS... or maybe i should say infamous
[16:14] <sebsebseb> ali1234: how about the SystemD guy for example? who also started Pulseaudio  he's starting to get famous/infamous now
[16:14] <kvarley-laptop> directhex: How do I force mount using old superblocks?
[16:14] <sebsebseb> ali1234: saw his talk at FOSDEM this year :d
[16:14] <ali1234> sebsebseb: the one who's name you can't remember? :P
[16:14] <ali1234> sebsebseb: but yes, agreed, he is getting famous :)
[16:14] <directhex> kvarley, the sb=n option, passed to mount, uses the superblock on n instead of 1
[16:15] <sebsebseb> oh yeah Ubuntu doesn't use SystemD it uses Upstart instead, but most other distros are using SystemD now and most use Pulseaudio
[16:15] <sebsebseb> ali1234: I remember his name, it's just hard to spell it etc
[16:15] <sebsebseb> Lennart pottering ?
[16:15] <ali1234> close
[16:15] <directhex> sebsebseb, dumpe2fs can be asked to tell you valid superblock numbers
[16:15] <kvarley-laptop> directhex: So mount /dev/sdXX /mnt sb=X ?
[16:16] <sebsebseb> directhex: wrong person?
[16:16] <sebsebseb> ali1234: got to see do a talk or talk to some other famous or famousish  people at FOSDEM to thsi year, that was good :)
[16:17] <kvarley-laptop> directhex: found a guide, thanks
[16:17] <directhex> directhex@barnabas:~$ sudo dumpe2fs /dev/mapper/sda6_crypt | grep -i superblock
[16:17] <directhex> dumpe2fs 1.42.5 (29-Jul-2012)
[16:17] <directhex>   Primary superblock at 0, Group descriptors at 1-11
[16:17] <directhex>   Backup superblock at 32768, Group descriptors at 32769-32779
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> To buy a 6D, or not to buy a 6D
[16:22] <kvarley-laptop> directhex: The first few superblocks and the last few don't work
[16:25] <MartijnVdS> popey: Have you seen this Kickstarter? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cantripgames/story-war-the-storytelling-party-game
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6e9uxwAZzI
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> popey: ^ that's some people playing a round
[16:28] <popey> ooh, looks fun
[16:40] <popey> \o/ backed
[16:41]  * MartijnVdS too
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> popey: also, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1234131468/machine-of-death-the-game-of-creative-assassinatio
[17:13] <BigRedS> Is there an easy way that I can stop using "Ubuntu online accounts" and just use whatever Gnome normally uses?
[17:14] <BigRedS> Oh. The gnome thing's still there. Nifty
[17:15] <BigRedS> Ah, no, this is something else. Arse
[17:16] <ali1234> you have to mess with .desktop files
[17:16] <ali1234> the items in the control center are just .desktop files
[17:17] <ali1234> and all .desktop files have this "onlyshowin" property which can hide them from others. so that the unity configuration doesn't appear under gnome for example
[17:18] <BigRedS> oh, so ther emight still be the original gnome one knocking around?
[17:18] <BigRedS> ta
[17:18] <ali1234> yeah
[17:18] <czajkowski> BigRedS: Y U NO LIKE ONLINE ACCOUNTS!
[17:18] <czajkowski> eh
[17:19] <BigRedS> because they're all offline
[17:19] <BigRedS> and I can't make any of them go online
[17:19] <BigRedS> and I can't think what problem this is trying to solve
[17:19] <BigRedS> but it's doing a decidedly less good job than the gnome one did
[17:20] <BigRedS> Bah. I'll just use gajim.
[17:21] <BigRedS> Hooray for an integrated DE
[17:22] <ali1234> yeah i couldn't actually figure out what online accounts is supposed to do either
[17:22] <ali1234> i mean i put my accounts in it
[17:22] <ali1234> and then whenever some software wanted to use them it just asked me again
[17:22] <BigRedS> Could you get any of them online?
[17:23] <ali1234> i dunno. how?
[17:23] <BigRedS> I get it asking if Ubuntu can use them, I say 'yes' then it waits a bit and asks again
[17:24] <ali1234> i authorized it
[17:24] <ali1234> and now it's there
[17:24] <BigRedS> oh. It always seems to fail auth on mine
[17:24] <BigRedS> for all of my xmpp accounts
[17:24] <ali1234> but it just doesn't do anything
[17:24] <BigRedS> but, usefully, doesn't tell me why
[17:24] <BigRedS> oh, so yours never actually ends up usable?
[17:25] <ali1234> i don't know *how* to use it
[17:25] <ali1234> i have just added an account into an accounts dialog
[17:25] <ali1234> there is no way to know what it is supposed to do
[17:26] <BigRedS> yeah, I guess it might be that it's working as designed and I've just not worked out what I'm supposed to do next
[17:26] <AlanBell> I think that is the thing that makes tweet notifications happen
[17:27] <AlanBell> and it might get used for some lenses but I can't tell which
[17:27] <BigRedS> Oh. I'm just trying to set up an XMPP account
[17:27] <ali1234> oh i see if you click on the account it tells you what applicatons use it
[17:27] <ali1234> and i don't use any of them at all
[17:28] <BigRedS> aha. empathy-accounts works
[17:28] <BigRedS> and seems to sidestep the ubuntu thing
[17:28] <ali1234> for me it opens the same dialog
[17:28] <ali1234> AlanBell: online accounts doesn't have twitter as an option for me
[17:28] <ali1234> it has facebook though
[17:28] <ali1234> the only one of these i actually have an account on is google
[17:29] <ali1234> and that integrates with a lens for searching google docs, shotwell to upload to picassa, and empathy for google talk
[17:31] <ali1234> ah i assume this is the gnome one
[17:31] <ali1234> it's set up evolution to use google calendar and contacts
[17:31] <ali1234> that's actually useful
[17:31] <BigRedS> Hehe. my work XMPP account is working but it doesn't seem to be authing with Gmail or facebook
[17:31] <BigRedS> which is productivity-enforcing, I suppose
[17:32] <ali1234> evolution has totally failed to sync anything useful though
[17:32] <ali1234> all it has managed to get is people's emails and none of their other information at all
[17:32] <ali1234> so that's pretty pointless
[17:34] <ali1234> evolution contacts is awful. i think it's actually broken here. it can't be supposed to be like this
[17:35] <BigRedS> does any of evolution work?
[17:35] <ali1234> dunno. it's crashed now
[17:54] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036776.html
[17:56] <directhex> it's a good job canonical has the resources to rewrite the last few decades of X.org from scratch before the end of may!
[17:56] <directhex> wheeeeeee
[17:56] <directhex> (note: may contain sarcasm)
[17:56] <BigRedS> haha
[17:56] <BigRedS> We need more unfinished software
[17:56] <BigRedS> that's the big thing I've been missing recently
[17:57] <bigcalm> directhex: with the slightly larger window of October launch
[17:58] <bigcalm> Good luck Canonical!
[17:58] <mgdm> yeah... 'blimey'
[17:59] <bigcalm> Just saw a crane glide past. Good end to the day I think
[18:00] <directhex> i don't think the smartest display server engineers on the planet could succeed at what they're proposing in the timescales proposed. and canonical does not employ all those aforementioned "smartest engineers"
[18:01]  * bigcalm checks the calendar for 1st April
[18:02] <neuro> directhex: lol
[18:02] <neuro> directhex: thing is, you're not wrong
[18:02]  * popey checks directhex for associations with a competing product
[18:03] <neuro> tis a big job
[18:03] <directhex> popey, okay, disclosure, we have at least one of those engineer on staff, working on wayland/weston
[18:03] <directhex> but the a1 problem here imho is drivers
[18:03] <neuro> HE'S A WITCH, BURN HIM!
[18:03] <directhex> are AMD meant to make drivers for both x.org and mir?
[18:03] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec#Mir_on_HW_Supported_By_Closed_Source_Drivers
[18:04] <directhex> mmmhmmmmmmm
[18:04] <neuro> he has a link for everything, that man
[18:04]  * popey finds a link to a website which just has the text "yes, yes he does"
[18:04] <neuro> :)
[18:05] <neuro> i wanted to register a .de domain the other day for a domain hack
[18:05] <neuro> turns out anyone can register a .de domain
[18:05] <neuro> as long as the admin contact is in germany
[18:05] <neuro> :P
[18:06] <mgdm> I have a .is for similar reasons
[18:06] <mgdm> they are *phenomenally* expensive to register via Gandi, etc
[18:06] <mgdm> but you can just set yourself up with a NIC handle and DIY it quite simply
[18:07] <neuro> how expensive?
[18:07] <mgdm> IIRC about 20 quid a year
[18:07]  * popey saves http://popey.com/yes/ for later
[18:07] <mgdm> I'd have to go and look it up
[18:07] <neuro> wha?!?
[18:07] <neuro> that's not that expensive!
[18:07] <neuro> opensrs have .is for $75/yr
[18:07] <mgdm> Oh, via Gandi it was like 200 quid
[18:07] <mgdm> 'no'
[18:07]  * neuro tuts at popey
[18:07] <neuro> tables?
[18:07] <neuro> really?
[18:07] <mgdm> but DIY it was 20 quid
[18:08] <neuro> hmm
[18:08] <neuro> this is opensrs reseller rates, before markup
[18:08] <popey> heh
[18:08]  * neuro switched http://isitbeeroclock.com/ to bootstrap a while back
[18:09] <mgdm> what advantage does Bootstrap give you over the 5 lines of CSS it'd probably take otherwise? :)
[18:09] <neuro> mgdm: good grief ... you can only buy .is from gandi as a joe pleb customer if you're a Corporate Service customer, and it's £238/yr!
[18:10] <neuro> ex vat!!
[18:10] <neuro> mgdm: commonality of platform, for me at least
[18:10] <neuro> since i'm using bootstrap for everything i build these days
[18:11] <mgdm> neuro: yeah, hence the 'sod that, I'll register myself' bit
[18:11] <mgdm> particularly as it's just for a daft side project
[18:11] <neuro> totally
[18:11] <mgdm> Oh, I forgot i have a .es for a comedy hack too
[18:11] <mgdm> I should reinstate my outer.hebrid.es rDNS entry
[18:11] <neuro> i'd toyed with setting myself up on gandi, but i'm already on as an opensrs reseller, and tho they don't have the range that gandi do, they cover most of the stuff i need
[18:12] <neuro> i had a mate who wanted a .cat domain
[18:12] <neuro> i had to tell him he'd need to have a page up in Catalonian within six months as part of the domain reg rules
[18:12] <neuro> he gave up at that point
[18:12] <neuro> Catalonian?!?!?
[18:12] <mgdm> heh
[18:12] <BigRedS> My brother learnt some catalan for his .cat
[18:12]  * neuro facepalms himself
[18:13] <neuro> i've actually been there and i can't even say the language right
[18:13]  * mgdm observes that nyan.cat has a Catalan option
[18:13] <neuro> it also has a Nyan option
[18:14] <neuro> I wonder if there's a Nyan translation for Ubuntu ...
[18:15] <neuro> wouldn't take long, I guess
[18:15] <neuro> File -> Nyan
[18:15] <neuro> Edit -> Nyan
[18:15] <neuro> Preferences -> Nyan
[18:15] <neuro> etc
[18:15] <neuro> might have some usability issues though
[18:16] <popey> http://samohtv.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/mir-an-outpost-envisioned-as-a-new-home/
[18:16] <popey> more info
[18:17] <directhex> you can only have a .cat domain as a foreigner if your site includes resources to help spread the language
[18:18] <directhex> so all comedy .cat domains have a catalan translation and a link to a catalan learning site
[18:19] <neuro> yeah i know, it does seem like a daft requirement if you can just punt a page up in catalan and you're sorted
[18:20] <popey> When I first went contracting, I wanted a company name, Hugo came up with Pontifex, so i used that. Looked up the pontifex.it domain, you just needed to be a european resident to get it. Then the pope died, and the next day pontifex.it was grabbed by some speculative goit
[18:20] <mgdm> :(
[18:20] <neuro> ouch :(
[18:20] <popey> i saw it pop up for sale a while later, and some german singer bought it
[18:20] <neuro> i'm still desperate for the neu.ro domain
[18:21] <neuro> but some guy in northern ireland bought it way before i realised it could be done
[18:21] <neuro> it's been parked on the same register.com nameservers for about 14 years now
[18:21] <neuro> had a glimmer of hope a couple of months ago because going to the website brought up a "customer suspended" message
[18:21] <neuro> now it's an apache test page ;(
[18:22] <neuro> annoying thing, register.com don't even do .ro domains any more, so no idea how they still have it
[18:22]  * neuro uses zensoft.net for contracty purposes now anyway
[18:22] <neuro> had that since 99
[18:22] <neuro> and the co.uk since 98
[18:24] <popey> when i couldn't get the pontifex.it, I got a spam mail from a domain registrar saying "Hey, pontifex.com isn't available, would you like pontifex.ltd.uk, which is?"
[18:24] <popey> So i registered that with somoene else :D
[18:24] <popey> "Thanks spammer!"
[18:26] <neuro> no probs going through the ltd.uk reg hoops?
[18:26] <neuro> or is it just "what is your company number, thanks, sorted"?
[18:26] <popey> pretty much
[18:26] <neuro> the last time i tried to register an ltd.uk was 1996
[18:27] <popey> i also found out who had pontifex.com. they had the domain andweren't using it, was some research project.. they wanted $10K for it
[18:27] <popey> "Uh, no"
[18:27] <neuro> in the days of "please fax us blah blah on your corporate letterhead ..."
[18:27] <popey> oh i had to do that iirc
[18:27] <neuro> oof
[18:28] <mgdm> I've had to do that once or twice
[18:28] <mgdm> the corporate letterhead was invented in Word or similar about a minute before sending the fax
[18:28] <popey> ditto
[18:28]  * neuro spies on popey's company details ;)
[18:28] <neuro> SIC Code: 7210, Hardware Consultancy
[18:30] <neuro> popey: i didn't realise you were older than me!
[18:30] <popey> hah
[18:30] <popey> big four oh
[18:30]  * neuro will be 39 at the end of the month
[18:30] <neuro> i don't know whether or not to be depressed about that
[18:31] <popey> meh, just another solar orbit++
[18:33] <neuro> and more grey hairs :(
[18:33] <neuro> my beard is now like 30% grey in the chin area
[18:34] <popey> i haven't had a hair cut for months
[18:34] <popey> it's getting silly long
[18:34] <popey> my fringe reaches my chin
[18:35] <NET||abuse> exit
[18:35] <neuro> kurt cobain look?
[18:40] <popey> no, it's all back
[18:41] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/scruffbag.jpg
[18:41] <popey> neuro: ^
[18:42] <popey> hmm
[18:42] <neuro> Apologies, but we were unable to find what you were looking for. Perhaps searching will help.
[18:42] <popey> fixed
[18:45] <neuro> AHHHHHH
[18:45] <neuro> THE STARE, IT BURNS
[18:45] <neuro> glitterball++
[18:51] <popey> ☺
[19:17] <ali1234> you know the problem with convergence is that converging phone, tv, and desktop is a bit like converging cake, ice cream, and an AK47
[19:19] <Azelphur> that sounds like one tasty AK47
[19:19] <Azelphur> I'd buy it.
[19:19] <zleap> each of those devices has its own advantage when you converge them youi lose some of the key advantages,
[19:20] <zleap> small screen =- portable,  = harder to type documents on
[19:21] <mgdm> aaargh, how is the update manager still popping up
[19:21] <mgdm> I prevented the service from starting
[19:29] <ali1234> zleap: smart TV doesn't really have advantages
[19:30] <zleap> ok
[19:30] <zleap> why you can stream stuff etc
[19:30] <ali1234> pretty much anything you do on a desktop is horrible on anything that isn't a desktop and vice versa
[19:31] <zleap> iplayer works nicely on my desktop
[19:31] <zleap> i csn use iplayer on a smart tv
[19:31] <zleap> or internet enabled tv
[19:31] <ali1234> yeah but you can't watch blu rays acceptably
[19:31] <zleap> ok
[19:32] <zleap> good point soi you mean tv + blue ray player is better
[19:32] <ali1234> better than a desktop PC, for watching movies, yes
[19:32] <zleap> sound is better,  i guess too
[19:32] <ali1234> that's not really the point though
[19:33] <zleap> sure you need big tv's now to really get that cinema type experience
[19:33] <zleap> ok
[19:33] <ali1234> phone, tv, tablet are not multipurpose devices
[19:33] <zleap> good point
[19:34] <zleap> i was at a google work shop the other day in a school that was pointed out tablets and typing long documents don't mix
[19:34] <ali1234> in fact they pretty much all have the same two or three functions: communication, media consumption, and gaming
[19:34] <ali1234> you can converge those because of this
[19:34] <zleap> yeah
[19:34] <ali1234> you can't converge the desktop because it is simply a tool
[19:34] <zleap> as i said each of the devices has its own strong point (advantages)
[19:35] <ali1234> a smart phone is just a small tablet. a smart tv is just a really big tablet
[19:35] <zleap> so what you are saying is we will always need desktop computers,  despite all these reports that keep trying to predict their demise
[19:35] <ali1234> it makes sense to converge these
[19:35] <zleap> yeah
[19:35] <ali1234> i don't know about anyone else
[19:35] <ali1234> most people do not need a desktop pc
[19:35] <ali1234> i do though
[19:36] <ali1234> i can take or leave the smart widgets... i don't actually need them
[19:36] <zleap> well for typing letters, documents having a 22" screen is nice
[19:36] <zleap> for other tasks being able to see all applications at the same time is good,  programming or image editing may require having several windows open at the same time with all visable
[19:38] <Azelphur> how much cash can you withdraw from the bank without photo ID?
[19:39] <Azelphur> and without invoking general rage.
[19:39] <ali1234> i don't really see a need to have open source software in my smart devices, because i have no intention of using them for anything other than the specific uses they are sold for
[19:40] <mgdm> Azelphur: if you have your account's card, probably quite a lot
[19:40] <Azelphur> yea, it's my account so I have the card, I just don't have a passport / drivers license
[19:40] <Azelphur> (never been abroad, don't drive)
[19:41] <ali1234> it's like £500 from the cash machine last time i checked
[19:41] <ali1234> but it depends on which bank and which account
[19:41] <Azelphur> yea, I'm talking about going in branch and withdrawing
[19:49] <zleap> sorry was testing open arena on the pi
[19:51] <SuperEngineer> Has Ubuntu One got a fail at the moment? Can't find any notify of it being down except "for scheduled maintenance today at 10:30 AM UTC"/ "Shouldn't last longer than 10 minutes."
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> it had a fail earlier tnoight
[20:15] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: interesting - I wonder if it's still catching up perhaps
[20:15] <AlanBell> zleap: does it work well?
[20:17] <ali1234> it should be "okay"
[20:17] <zleap> 22" screen does yes
[20:18] <zleap> oh open arena,  its slow as i have the 256 model
[20:18] <zleap> but it does work,  i need to help someone at the computer club i am running get it working
[20:21] <zleap> AlanBell, if I am sharing  folder with ubuntu one does it only work with other ubuntu 1 users or can the person i specify get the file without ubuntu one
[20:58] <RaycisCharles> AlanBell: watching the game tonight?
[21:03] <AlanBell> game?
[21:07] <zleap> RaycisCharles, what game ?
[21:09] <ali1234> sooooooooooo... is compiz 0.9 finally dead then?
[21:14] <RaycisCharles> zleap: Villa vs City
[21:14] <RaycisCharles> Man City, not their natural enemies.
[21:14] <RaycisCharles> ali1234: I still see signs of life - it's spinning.
[21:17] <zleap> ah
[21:17] <zleap> united are i guess
[21:17] <zleap> for city and west brom or wolves for er villa
[21:18] <sebsebseb> ANyone watch Arrow in here? :d
[21:18]  * zleap wonders if there will be any players for city in a few years having played 1000 games
[21:18] <diplo> sebsebseb: o/
[21:18] <sebsebseb> diplo: what you do?
[21:18] <zleap> giggsy's 1000th game tomorrow
[21:18] <diplo> Not watched the most recent one though so ssh
[21:19] <sebsebseb> diplo: uhmm no neither have I since the pausing great idea :)
[21:19] <sebsebseb> diplo: until the cable box messes up
[21:19] <sebsebseb> looks like going to have to wait for the repeate
[21:19] <sebsebseb> can't get into recordings and so on on there at the moment to, but that's another issue, otherwise would have probably just recorded it
[21:20] <sebsebseb> diplo: or if I leave how is, may start playing eventauly
[21:20] <sebsebseb> can only go so far back
[21:20] <diplo> Or... other means...
[21:20] <diplo> :)
[21:20] <sebsebseb> when paused
[21:20] <sebsebseb> diplo: nope not turning to to rrent sites if that's what you mean,  anyway it's repeated later on in the week
[21:21] <diplo> ah
[21:21] <sebsebseb> other stuff was crashing with it though so paused and then fas forward a advert, and paused again, which caused the problem I guess ah
[21:22] <sebsebseb> diplo: probabyl run some rubbish propritary software or something on that cable box
[21:22] <sebsebseb> woudn't suprisem e
[21:22] <diplo> Virgin ?
[21:24] <AlanBell> ali1234: I think compiz 0.9 is probably dead, along with possibly wayland and possibly Mir :/
[21:25] <ali1234> wayland isn't dead
[21:26] <ali1234> ubuntu probably is
[21:27] <ali1234> the crazy flip-flopping reminds me somewhat of the last days of nokia
[21:28] <AlanBell> well they have been working on Mir since last June
[21:29] <ali1234> and nokia bought trolltech long before making Qt the development stack for their entire smartphone range
[21:29] <ali1234> then 12 months later "actually, windows phone"
[21:31] <sebsebseb> diplo: sure, what other cable company is there in the Uk now? right none?
[21:31] <diplo> Not everyone in here is from the UK, so I don't take it for granted anymore :)
[21:32] <diplo> Not got the TIVO box then?
[21:32] <sebsebseb> nope that's just a rental thing
[21:32] <sebsebseb> really
[21:32] <sebsebseb> a bit more per month for some features not really going to need
[21:32] <sebsebseb> diplo: also Tivo isn't really free software freedom respecting going by things  I read before etc
[21:32] <sebsebseb> it runs LInux, but....
[21:33] <sebsebseb> diplo: also I think it's quite locked down by default to
[21:33] <sebsebseb> diplo: I meant with a Tivo bos you don't acstauly own the box, unlike the old ones, of course going off the service, and those old boxes will be quite useless, but yeah
[21:34] <diplo> Never owned the Virgin/BY boxes though, always rented. Well apart from when they didnt collect mine so I donated to a member of this channel :)
[21:35] <sebsebseb> diplo: well I don't think they want that old Telewest box for example :d  yeah got one of those here to
[21:36] <diplo> Still worked fine :)
[21:36] <sebsebseb> sure, but no for HD obviosuly adn things like that, but yeah
[21:36] <sebsebseb> diplo: anyway UK TV sucks in general
[21:36] <diplo> yeah had hd box downstairs
[21:36] <sebsebseb> you know what, when I watch TV it's mainly to
[21:36] <sebsebseb> watch American shows :d
[21:37] <diplo> Same here, apart from a few odd shows
[21:37] <sebsebseb> or the news  and things like question time and panaorma at times
[21:37] <sebsebseb> occasioanl other documtary at itmes
[21:37] <czajkowski> c
[21:37] <sebsebseb> diplo: ,but in general it just sucks really and is a waste of time
[21:37] <diplo> I just can't wait to have a streaming service that is as quick as pirated stuff
[21:37] <diplo> It'll happen eventually
[21:37] <sebsebseb> diplo: and is used to try and get us to think in certain ways to
[21:38] <sebsebseb> czajkowski: d ?
[21:38] <sebsebseb> a b c d ?
[21:38]  * sebsebseb thinks maybe a cat or someting got czajkowski to put c  I don't know
[21:39] <popey> AlanBell: how is mir dead?
[21:40] <ali1234> nobody outside of ubuntu will touch it wit a long pointy stick
[21:40] <ali1234> wayland is bad enough
[21:40] <sebsebseb> ali1234: hmm?
[21:40] <sebsebseb> your on about something else now it seems
[21:41] <AlanBell> yeah, the CLA and existence of Wayland means that it is canonical only really
[21:41] <AlanBell> however that might be enough
[21:42] <directhex> well, steam for linux was a nice diversion, shame about the disappearance of 3d drivers!
[21:43] <sebsebseb> Wayland was started by Redhat I thought
[21:44] <sebsebseb> or someone who worked for Redhat to be more exact
[21:44] <directhex> someone without a CLA
[21:45] <AlanBell> started by someone who was at redhat and now is at intel
[21:47] <directhex> did you watch daniels' wayland talk from lca?
[21:47] <AlanBell> no
[21:47] <sebsebseb> no
[21:48] <ali1234> i think i might have
[21:48] <ali1234> if it was the one about video
[21:49] <popey> yeah, i watched that
[22:01] <ali1234> "The only thing worse than generalizing from one example is generalizing from no examples at all."
[22:16] <redtape-renegade> AlanBell: Replied to your post on G+.. :)
[22:20] <AlanBell> :)
[22:56] <Azelphur> http://store.steampowered.com/app/18300/ only 87p, seems like a good game :D
[23:00] <shauno> odd, e1.12 here.  their exchange rate is way off
[23:03] <Azelphur> shauno: always is with steam
[23:10] <popey> \o/ "You already own Spectraball"
[23:10] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:16] <ali1234> is there a metapackage to install KDE that is slightly less insane than kubuntu-desktop?
[23:16] <ali1234> but will still give me a full KDE
[23:17] <AlanBell> maybe just install kate?
[23:17] <AlanBell> that should pull in all the dependencies to run most applications, or do you want more than that?
[23:17] <ali1234> i wwant like the panels and stuff
[23:18] <popey> kdebase?