[00:04] <snap-l> I don't have raring installed. Is that a Flash plugin problem?
[00:17] <jsjgruber-x-r> snap-l, no, believe it or not flash circumvents it in other programs, but I don't think epiphany uses flash without taking special action. Epiphany crashes with or without flash installed.
[00:19] <snap-l> Not sure then. I haven't touched Epiphany in years
[01:51] <snap-l> Meeting in 10 minutes
[01:52] <gamerchick02> i'm actually here. ahem.
[01:52] <snap-l> Cool
[01:52] <gamerchick02> irony: sitting in ubuntu-us-mi on the mac. hah
[01:56] <waldo323> the mac is running ubuntu, right? ;)
[02:00] <gamerchick02> no it is not. OSX.
[02:00] <snap-l> one minute to meeting
[02:00] <gamerchick02> the desktop runs Ubuntu.
[02:00] <gamerchick02> :)
[02:00] <snap-l> OK, let's get started
[02:00] <waldo323> :)
[02:00] <gamerchick02> cool
[02:00] <snap-l> first off, welcome to the March meeting for Ubuntu US MI
[02:00] <snap-l> We're nearing the end of the Ubuntu Global Jam
[02:01] <snap-l> I'd like to thank everyone who participated
[02:01] <snap-l> and remind folks that there's still time to participate if you haven't already. ;)
[02:02] <snap-l> We had a pretty respectable turnout on some of the events
[02:02] <gamerchick02> cool
[02:02] <snap-l> Do you all think this was a worthwhile way to do this, or would you prefer something a little more in-person?
[02:02] <gamerchick02> i think it's worthwhile. i was just away all weekend.
[02:03] <snap-l> yeah, this weekend wasn't the greatest for me as far as participation
[02:03] <snap-l> had family over on Saturday
[02:03] <jjesse> helelo
[02:03] <jjesse> hello :)
[02:04] <snap-l> howdy jjesse
[02:04] <waldo323> me too, does this meeting count as participating ? :)
[02:04] <gamerchick02> hi jjesse
[02:04] <snap-l> waldo323: No. ;)
[02:04] <gamerchick02> i was up north in saginaw and taking care of Nile stuff and went shopping today (which now that i say it sounds like a lame excuse, whoops)
[02:05] <snap-l> No worries.
[02:05] <snap-l> I do think though that the online participation allows folks to take advantage of their weird windows of time
[02:05] <gamerchick02> you are correct.
[02:06] <snap-l> I also was pretty pleased with how well the Google Hangouts worked.
[02:06] <waldo323> it is nice to have in person options when they are possible
[02:06] <snap-l> Right, but I think the in-person stuff might be better for teh release parties
[02:06] <snap-l> The jams, frankly, have been pretty poorly attended
[02:06] <snap-l> though it does give people a place to head to instead of just blowing the whole thing off completely.
[02:09] <snap-l> Anywho, it's something to think about for our next Jam, and for any events we might plan in the future
[02:09] <snap-l> I think we'll have more acceptance after the UDS
[02:10] <snap-l> at least we'll have a bit better roadmap
[02:11] <snap-l> And remember: there's still time to participate. :)
[02:11] <snap-l> Big thanks to jcastro for hanging out and talking about AskUbuntu
[02:12] <snap-l> I got some extra reputation from his tips
[02:12] <gamerchick02> that's sweet
[02:13] <snap-l> If you haven't checked out askubuntu.com yet, I'd encourage you to check it out.
[02:13] <snap-l> It's awesome.
[02:13] <gamerchick02> it is.
[02:15] <snap-l> Anything else on the jam?
[02:15] <jjesse> did anyone get ubuntu touch to work?
[02:15] <jjesse> mine (through MultRom) just boots to a blank screen
[02:15] <snap-l> Yeah, Mark Thomas got it working, as did jcastro
[02:15] <snap-l> They're using Nexus 7 devices.
[02:16] <gamerchick02> i'm afraid to install it to my Nexus 7.
[02:16] <jjesse> hrmm yeah on my Nexus 7 running MultiRom to boot both Android and Ubuntu just gets a blank screen
[02:16] <snap-l> hm
[02:16] <jjesse> i'll have to bug #ubuntu-touch some more
[02:17] <snap-l> Yeah, it appears it can work. :)
[02:18] <snap-l> DId anyone else play with touch over the weekned?
[02:19] <gamerchick02> no but i probably should try to install it to my old android phone. has anyone tried it on an LG Optimus V?
[02:19] <snap-l> I haven't.
[02:19] <jjesse> there i a list of supported devices
[02:19] <jjesse> and more are added all the time
[02:19] <gamerchick02> i'll check it out. thanks.
[02:20] <waldo323> just found instructions for my old phone
[02:20] <gamerchick02> cool!
[02:20] <waldo323> (htc incredible)
[02:21] <snap-l> Anything else on touches or jams?
[02:21] <snap-l> or touching jams?
[02:22] <gamerchick02> my mom made jam and it's in our basement
[02:24] <jjesse> is it good jam?  what flavor?  i like strawberry
[02:24] <gamerchick02> strawberry and blueberry.
[02:24] <jjesse> mmm
[02:24] <gamerchick02> well, seperate jars for each.
[02:24] <snap-l> heh
[02:26] <snap-l> OK, going to move along to the Release party
[02:27] <snap-l> We have our location at Penguicon 2013.
[02:27] <snap-l> Perhaps you might have heard of it. :)
[02:27] <gamerchick02> never in my life. :-P
[02:28] <jjesse> is there were a bunch of penguins get together?
[02:28] <snap-l> Yes, dressed as people and other furry animals
[02:28] <jjesse> awesome
[02:28] <snap-l> The release party will be on Friday, from 7-8pm
[02:28] <gamerchick02> cool
[02:28] <snap-l> We'll be meeting in our usual spot of "the hotel bar"
[02:29] <gamerchick02> beer + Linux = happy geeks
[02:29] <snap-l> Exactly
[02:29] <snap-l> And we'll celebrate the release of Raring Ringtail
[02:29] <waldo323> it is a nice open area
[02:29] <snap-l> waldo323: so I've heard.
[02:30] <snap-l> I put in the request for some swag for the event
[02:30] <snap-l> We'll see if it will be granted.
[02:30] <gamerchick02> swagtastic
[02:30] <snap-l> Only downside is you'll need to have at least a one-day ticket for Penguicon
[02:31] <snap-l> But Penguicon is definitely an event that should not be missed
[02:31] <snap-l> http://2013.penguicon.org/attending/registration/
[02:32] <waldo323> the hotel block they currently have is 75% full
[02:33] <waldo323> so if you plan on staying it would be a good idea to reserve your room soon
[02:33] <gamerchick02> pardon me but *FLAIL*
[02:33] <gamerchick02> that's like DOWN THE ROAD FROM MY APARTMENT
[02:33] <gamerchick02> ahem
[02:33] <waldo323> heh well i did include an if
[02:34] <gamerchick02> i know but i just looked at the location and almost fell off the couch
[02:34] <waldo323> oh yikes, be safe
[02:35] <snap-l> I'd encourage everyone to attend
[02:35] <gamerchick02> hah. i might be able to if i can get Friday off
[02:36] <snap-l> It's going on all weekend
[02:36] <snap-l> $50 for the weekend
[02:37] <snap-l> Also, if you want a great audience for a talk, you'll want to talk with the programming folks to get yourself on the event list
[02:38] <gamerchick02> that's not bad at all. how late does the event run each night?
[02:38] <snap-l> It's one of the highlights of my convention year.
[02:38] <snap-l> It runs all night
[02:39] <gamerchick02> uhm, wow, ok. i'm more of a "morning person" you could say...
[02:39] <snap-l> Sunday everyone runs out of gas, but it is litterally all night
[02:39] <snap-l> https://plus.google.com/photos/117777908934895049975/albums/5736919828421690657?banner=pwa
[02:39] <waldo323> and there are talks and events in the mornings too
[02:39] <gamerchick02> would i miss a ton if i went home at midnight?
[02:40] <snap-l> https://plus.google.com/photos/117777908934895049975/albums/5602143003899303841?banner=pwa
[02:40] <waldo323> not a lot of programming typically happens after midnight you'd miss some of the parties and socializing that happens after that time
[02:40] <snap-l> gamerchick02: You'd have to check the program
[02:40] <snap-l> But yeah, most of it is just the parties and such
[02:40] <gamerchick02> thanks i will
[02:41] <snap-l> and the "after dark" stuff that isn't terribly minor friendly.
[02:41] <waldo323> my first year i went home each night and didn't know i missed anything
[02:41] <snap-l> Yeah, our first year we went home. Afterward we decided to just get a hotel room
[02:41] <gamerchick02> nice.
[02:41] <waldo323> i hope there will be some late night computer talks this year
[02:41] <snap-l> and I'm cheap
[02:42] <gamerchick02> well, it is literally down the road from me. 10 minutes.
[02:42] <gamerchick02> i live kind of across from Oakland University ish
[02:42] <waldo323> makes sense to sleep in your own bed in that case
[02:42] <gamerchick02> yeah
[02:46] <snap-l> Anywho, that's what's happening for the release party in this area
[02:46] <snap-l> If you want to organize your own release party, please feel free
[02:46] <snap-l> Post to the mailing list and get something organized
[02:46] <gamerchick02> i'm thinking i'll try to make time for this. considering it's right down the street and all.
[02:48] <snap-l> Great!
[02:51] <rick_h_> evening
[02:51] <snap-l> Hey rick_h_!
[02:51] <snap-l> How was the trip?
[02:51] <rick_h_> good, little black ice scare in KY but survived and made it down
[02:51] <rick_h_> just got back from dinner, of course in the south everything is closed on a sunday night :/
[02:53] <snap-l> So, how was the 7-11?
[02:53] <waldo323> i found a patch of black ice on I75 somewhere between 11 and 14 mile today , glad you're safe rick_h_
[02:53] <rick_h_> snap-l: heh, chilis...almost as bad
[02:54] <snap-l> Hey, nothing wrong with Chili's, unless they don't know what they're doing
[02:54] <gamerchick02> chili's isn't too bad.
[02:54] <snap-l> like the one at Oakland Mall
[02:54] <rick_h_> waldo323: yea, there was a spot where the hwy did a bunch of intersections and overpasses and I guess the wind must go through there funny. Aroud 12 different cars in accidents in a 1mi stretch on both sides of the hwy
[02:54] <gamerchick02> eeee. glad you're safe, rick_h_
[02:54] <waldo323> oh wow
[02:54] <rick_h_> felt the suv slide around on me a twice in there but not too bad
[02:55] <rick_h_> but was stuck at 0mph for around 25min while they cleared things up and then of course you're looking like a hawk for any sort of black ice for the next 4hrs
[02:57] <gamerchick02> i'm still glad you're ok. that's a scare.
[02:58] <rick_h_> yea, all good. the new car got me down nice and safe. Was bummed to not cross 30mpg though
[02:58] <rick_h_> and finding diesel is fun :)
[02:58] <rick_h_> not as simple as you initially think
[02:58] <gamerchick02> oh yeah you have the diesal VW yes?
[02:58] <rick_h_> fortunately it's 750mi trip and got right aroud 725 miles on a tank
[02:58] <rick_h_> gamerchick02: yea, TDI ftw
[02:59] <gamerchick02> i'd love a TDI anything, but not a lot of diesal chryslers to be found. they're making a diesal RAM 1500 but i don't really want a huge truck.
[03:00] <rick_h_> they're adding a diesel jeep cherokee this fall
[03:00] <rick_h_> was at the auto show and I thought about looking at it to compre
[03:00] <rick_h_> but yea, not a lot out there
[03:00] <gamerchick02> i don't work on the Cherokee so i didn't really know, whoops
[03:02] <snap-l> Whoops. Got sidetracked. :)
[03:02] <gamerchick02> we did, sorry
[03:02] <snap-l> Anything else forthe meeting? If not, meeting adjourned. :)
[03:02] <waldo323> :)
[03:02] <gamerchick02> do you have a gavel?
[03:02] <rick_h_> oh sorry, missed I jumped into the meeting, my bad
[03:02] <snap-l> rick_h_: No worries. :)
[03:02] <snap-l> we be jammin;
[03:03] <gamerchick02> that's actually perfect because i need to go to bed. stupid need for more than 6 hours sleep. getting old kills you.
[03:03] <snap-l> Yeah, tell me about it. ;)
[03:03] <waldo323> i refuse to get old
[03:04] <waldo323> not sure it is working though
[03:04] <gamerchick02> i used to be able to go to bed at midnight and get up at 6:30 for 5 days, then sleep midnight to 9 on weekends and be fine. now… not so much.
[03:04] <snap-l> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/e456eb334ee15f7a4f667684fccb77dcc6bba911?authuser=0&hl=en
[03:04] <gamerchick02> well, it's either get old or get dead and i'd rather get old i guess.
[03:04] <rick_h_droid> woot, bluetooth keyboard for the tablet
[03:05] <rick_h_droid> but isn't not mechanical :(
[03:05] <gamerchick02> aww
[03:05] <snap-l> rick_h_droid: Yeah, that' can be a bummer
[03:06] <rick_h_droid> heh, now need a stand though. Not exactly ergo with it laying down on the table
[03:06] <gamerchick02> ok, i'm going to read a bit then go to bed. sorry i didn't jam with everyone. i'll see you all this week after work, methinks. :)
[03:06] <gamerchick02> lol rick_h_droid
[03:06] <rick_h_droid> gamerchick night, have fun
[03:09] <snap-l> Hanging out if anyone wants to join
[04:10] <snap-l> Hope you all have a great night!
[13:04] <snap-l> Morning
[13:06] <brousch> how went the jamming?
[13:13] <snap-l> It went OK. Not as much turnout as I would have hoped, but I think part of it is people are just busy on weekends
[13:13] <snap-l> and being online was both a blessing and a curse
[13:13] <snap-l> blessing: Allowed people to take advantage of weird windows of time throughout the weekend
[13:14] <snap-l> curse: No focus
[13:14] <snap-l> Also I think having jcastro's Q&A at 11am on a Saturday was too early for anyone to really participate.
[13:15] <snap-l> And it could have been promoted better, though not sure exactly how
[13:15] <snap-l> but overall I think it was good.
[13:15] <snap-l> I think it'll take some getting used to for folks to really participate
[13:15] <snap-l> and some more focused events
[13:16] <snap-l> like "hey, we're really jamming in a hangout from X to Y"
[13:21] <brousch> Sorry I had no time
[13:24] <snap-l> brousch: That's OK.
[13:25] <snap-l> Not complaining. People are just busy on the weekends. :)
[13:45] <rick_h_> morning
[14:00] <brousch> My talk went well, though I think it was the least-attended talk at the conference
[14:03] <snap-l> brousch: What talk were you opposite?
[14:03] <snap-l> brousch: BTW: How was the conference?
[14:03] <brousch> I was opposite 3 talks I wanted to see
[14:04] <snap-l> That could be a problem. :)
[14:04] <brousch> It definitely was
[14:05] <brousch> Most of my friends went to other talks because they know they will see mine some other day
[14:05] <brousch> The conference was good
[14:37] <jrwren_> did you see Jeff McWherter's talk?
[14:38] <brousch> I don't think so
[14:39] <brousch> I assumed it was PHoneGap
[14:49] <jrwren_> it might have been.
[14:49] <jrwren_> i know they use that a lot
[14:49] <jrwren_> he left early to have dinner with me that night :)
[14:49] <jrwren_> i stole a grdevday speaker :)
[14:57] <brousch> He missed the Github drinkup afterwards
[14:57] <brousch> We were squashed into a tiny space, but free beer!
[14:58] <brousch> So I hope you paid for his beer
[15:03] <jrwren_> i didn't. he paid for mine, :)
[15:03] <jrwren_> he has a 1yo, I think he was more running home to see her.
[15:03] <jrwren_> how was the drunkup? lots of githubbers there?
[15:09] <brousch> No. We only have one githubber in GR now
[15:10] <brousch> By Githubber, i mean an employee of GitHub
[15:11] <jrwren_> right
[15:11] <jrwren_> only one now? did someone move?
[15:11] <jrwren_> i think I only ever knew of one.
[15:11] <jrwren_> otehr MI peeps were port huron area IIRC
[15:11] <jrwren_> and somewhere south of GR, like Kzoo
[15:11] <jrwren_> something like that, but I don't remember
[15:13] <brousch> A company in Holland got bought by GitHub a year or so ago so we had more. Some of them moved to California
[15:13] <jrwren_> Holland is what I was thinking of (south of GR) :)
[15:13] <brousch> That company had people in holland and South Bend, IN
[15:13] <brousch> Well, it's SW of GR, on The LAke
[15:46] <brousch> greg-g: I'm tired of your bicycling-induced heavy breathing causing global warming. Drive a car! http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/03/04/1238258/state-rep-says-biking-is-not-earth-friendly-because-breathing-produces-co2
[15:51] <snap-l> I think we need a Mythbusters episode on this
[15:52] <snap-l> I foresee several trips to the junkyard, and special guest appearance by Lance Armstrong
[15:52] <snap-l> Then at the end they can detonate both the car and Lance Armstrong
[15:52] <snap-l> and thus global warming is saved.
[15:53] <brousch> Or they could do it in one of the emissions test labs
[15:54] <brousch> Have man and machine go for 24 hours in there and see who produces more waste/mile
[16:17] <greg-g> brousch: wow, thanks for my daily dose of bike craziness
[16:17] <snap-l> I hope I hear from Elite Keyboards today.
[16:17] <snap-l> I'll be exceptionally angry if I don't.
[16:17] <brousch> :D
[16:19] <rick_h_> greg-g: can you post your laptop experience to https://plus.google.com/115383915302515672680/posts/Y9oANWcDGg8 ?
[16:22] <snap-l> rick_h_: I posted as well
[16:22] <snap-l> My experience: You'll eventually buy a Thinkpad. The question is how many machines will you buy in the interim.﻿
[16:22] <rick_h_> snap-l: thanks
[16:22] <snap-l> np
[16:23] <rick_h_> yea, the first comment hosed on thinkpads and I'm having a hard time not going "BS!"
[16:25] <snap-l> Again, you'll eventually buy Thinkpad. The question is when. ;)
[16:26] <greg-g> rick_h_: done
[16:26] <greg-g> rick_h_: clincher: "Thinkpads are the computers you buy when you want something that is strong and durable. Apple is what you buy when you want pretty looking hardware (ignoring software differences). Dells are this stupid in between that doesn't work for me.﻿"
[16:27] <rick_h_> greg-g: thank you much
[16:27] <rick_h_> co-worker there so I don't want him to get a sucky machine
[16:28] <snap-l> APparently the phishers are strong today
[16:28] <greg-g> who is that , btw?
[16:28] <rick_h_> greg-g: he's on a launchpad squad working on cloud stuff now
[16:29] <rick_h_> so guess cloud engineering squad
[16:29] <greg-g> jrwren_: I'm not sold on the purely calorie burning argument for walking desks. But after this Berkeley prof presented here at WMF (she's the author of "The Chair") I'm sold on the general health issues of sitting all day, especially in the posture we are told is "correct".
[16:30] <greg-g> rick_h_: gotcha
[16:30] <greg-g> http://www.amazon.com/The-Chair-Rethinking-Culture-Design/dp/0393319555
[16:31] <rick_h_> greg-g: interesting
[16:31] <snap-l> So what's the correct position?
[16:31] <greg-g> well, one of two
[16:31] <snap-l> first person to say "missionary" gets a boot to the hed.
[16:31] <greg-g> lemme find some pictures
[16:32] <snap-l> Also a little bummed. Found out Logitech laid off one of the royal smart people on the Squeezebox project
[16:33] <greg-g> this one is considered to be just about up there: http://www.focaluprightfurniture.com/video-demos/
[16:33] <snap-l> it's a matter of time until mysqueezebox.com goes poof.
[16:33] <greg-g> one thing Galen stessed: there is no good ONE position, our bodies are made to move, so, change it up through out the day
[16:33] <snap-l> Yeah, that's one thing the ergo chairs don't handle very well
[16:34] <greg-g> well, the point is one chair can't do it all
[16:34] <greg-g> that chair is pretty good, it pivots around
[16:34] <greg-g> you can shimmy your tooshie
[16:35] <snap-l> Wonder if the ball chair is helping any
[16:35] <snap-l> or if that's just something they can glom onto
[16:35] <snap-l> It makes sense that sitting all day can't be all that good for you
[16:35] <greg-g> yeah
[16:36] <snap-l> It there's probably some nuances that get lost in the re-telling
[16:36] <snap-l> s/^It/But
[16:36] <snap-l> Usually how scientific research works
[16:36] <snap-l> Yes, this is mostly true, but...
[16:37] <snap-l> and the but contains all of the nuance that doesn't make it out past the papers
[16:37] <greg-g> which is why most of science journalism sucks
[16:37] <greg-g> "HEADLINE THAT TOTALLY MISREPRESENTS THE POINT OF A VERY SPECIFIC/NUANCED PAPER"
[16:38] <snap-l> Find that a lot in health journalism
[16:38] <greg-g> "DOCTORS SAY TO DRINK 3 GLASSES OF WINE A DAY FOR BETTER HEALTH"
[16:38] <snap-l> "science says eating bacon improves health"
[16:38] <greg-g> #facepalm
[16:39] <snap-l> No, science says bacon has a protein that if synthesized properly has been shown in one uncontrolled study to...
[16:39] <greg-g> zactly
[16:39] <greg-g> btw, xkcd today made me lol in the office
[16:40] <snap-l> heh
[16:40] <snap-l> Yeah, unless my client automatically checks, I'm never checking the sig
[16:41] <greg-g> :)
[16:41] <greg-g> thank you, mutt
[16:41] <snap-l> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ocsFgnObcrw/UTSjOs16HjI/AAAAAAAACsA/_b9YZSsTrss/s667/potato.jpg
[16:42] <snap-l> Sadly I think I need those signs
[17:28] <greg-g> rick_h_: we won! (g+ thinkin discussion)
[17:28] <jrwren_> greg-g: i miss my standing desk :)
[17:28] <greg-g> jrwren_: yeah, I want to try one out
[17:28] <jrwren_> snap-l: I totally agree.
[17:28] <jrwren_> if there is anything I know, is that health professionals are as trust worthy as lawyers.
[17:29] <jrwren_> the best thing is to do your own research adn come to your own conclusions.
[17:29] <jrwren_> health professionals are the idiots that told us no red meat and that fat intake is bad 20-30 yrs ago.
[17:29] <jrwren_> now we have obesity epedemic and hearth disease is more prevelant.
[17:36] <rick_h_> greg-g: woot!
[17:40] <dzho> "health professionals" is a pretty broad brush
[17:41] <dzho> lumping together CSPI with, say, the pediatrician's nurse is sort of like lumping together, oh, Bill Gates and the clerk at Best Buy
[17:41] <dzho> and yet both of the former fall into the "health professionals" category, and the latter as IT professionals.
[17:45] <jrwren_> its what I like about broad generalizations... usually tehy are false, in this case, I believe it true.
[17:49] <dzho> oh, well, that's ok, then.
[17:58] <rick_h_> whoa https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036776.html
[17:59] <snap-l> Oh FFS
[18:01] <snap-l> I think they're too ambitious in their timeline
[18:01] <snap-l> Though it's nice to see X support will still be around
[18:03] <snap-l> Welcome to the divergence from GNOME
[18:04] <snap-l> I'm not sure that's a bad thing overall
[18:04] <jrwren_> could be great.
[18:04] <jrwren_> wayland or whatever suffered from design by commitee IMO
[18:05] <snap-l> I'm not sure this is immune
[18:05] <jrwren_> single org at least
[18:05] <jjesse> well it will be designed by canonical an then thrown over the wall as being developed in an open and transparent way
[18:05] <jrwren_> likely with commercial requirements, not academic
[18:05] <jrwren_> if this fails, so does canonicals industry direction
[18:06] <snap-l> I hope they keep the spirit of X though, or it's not going to get adoption outside of Canonical
[18:06] <snap-l> (client display anywhere with minimal effort)
[18:07] <jrwren_> i don't like the reasoning
[18:07] <snap-l> ?
[18:07] <jrwren_> in fact, I claim it a lie.
[18:07] <jrwren_> "users nowadays expect a more consistent and a more integrated user experience than what is possible to offer on top of the X window system"
[18:08] <jrwren_> this is absolutely false.
[18:08] <jrwren_> if that is their reasoning, they are stupid.
[18:08] <snap-l> The X stack is not designed for performance, though
[18:08] <jcastro> hwo can you know the reasoning? There's like 5 pages of specs and I am barely through the first 2!
[18:08] <snap-l> and certainly not for 3D performance
[18:08] <jrwren_> i really do not like tehat one sentence. yes, I'm bitching about one sentence.
[18:09] <snap-l> Which is why compiz can be such a sore spot
[18:09] <jrwren_> everything else in the Motivation section is great, and I love this.
[18:11] <snap-l> I think the real message is clear: KDE won. ;)
[18:11] <brousch> snap-l++
[18:11] <snap-l> Now I'll have to fucking learn QT.
[18:11] <jjesse> +1 to snap-l
[18:11] <jjesse> just switch to Kubuntu and you will be happy
[18:11]  * brousch high-fives jjesse
[18:11]  * jjesse high-fives back brousch 
[18:11] <snap-l> Screw that. I'm getting an abacus and a tree stump
[18:12] <jcastro> snap-l: KDE didn't win, Qt won. :)
[18:12] <snap-l> y'all are crazy.
[18:12] <jrwren_> QT is awesome.
[18:12] <jrwren_> google earth uses QT on all platforms.
[18:12] <snap-l> I think it's more accurate to say GNOME lost their minds
[18:13] <jrwren_> that is true too.
[18:13] <jrwren_> gnome should have quit as soon as QT fixed their license :p
[18:13] <snap-l> jrwren_: har har
[18:14] <snap-l> I think the real problem is GNOME's pursut of some notional user who never learns how to use a computer
[18:14] <snap-l> and wants one button in the middle of their screen that says "do what I mean, poorly"
[18:15] <slestak> at the detriment of those who can use their machines
[18:15] <slestak> s/at/to
[18:15] <jcastro> meh, there's nothing you can do in GNOME2 that GNOME3 does better.
[18:15] <jcastro> wait, did that come out right?
[18:16] <snap-l> jcastro: No
[18:16] <snap-l> jcastro: 3 years ago you would have verbally abused someone who said that. :)
[18:16] <snap-l> In fact, I think you did. :)
[18:16] <jcastro> let me rephrase
[18:16] <snap-l> at Penguicon
[18:17] <jcastro> GNOME3 does everything GNOME2 can do but better.
[18:17] <jcastro> Just because you suck at learning new things doesn't mean it sucks. :p
[18:17] <snap-l> Absolutely.
[18:17] <snap-l> And because they feel I can't have nice things doesn't mean it sucks
[18:17] <jrwren_> i like the way gtk# has approached the issue :)
[18:17] <snap-l> I love configuring everything via gconf
[18:18] <snap-l> It reminds me of this other operating system... I can't recall what it was, but they had this thing called a "registry"
[18:18] <snap-l> but not like a registry where you would get things for your baby or newlyweds
[18:19] <jcastro> Putting settings in keys/values is the only sane way to do it
[18:19] <jcastro> how would you do it?
[18:19] <snap-l> more like a place where you took a sledgehammer to a faberge egg to see what was inside.
[18:19] <jcastro> If you say text files I will punch you
[18:19] <snap-l> Well, we used to have control panels that had options for setting icon sizes and fonts
[18:19] <brousch> In a lovely settings window easily accessibly from your program
[18:19] <snap-l> now we have registry entries
[18:20] <jcastro> you can make control panels
[18:20] <snap-l> I can also make messes with faberge eggs
[18:20] <jcastro> no you can't, you can't touch a faberge egg, they're priceless
[18:20] <jcastro> and behind bulletproof glass
[18:20] <jcastro> (I asked at the Faberge exhibit @ the DIA)
[18:20] <jrwren_> gconf registry IS text files... just xml text files :p
[18:21] <snap-l> jrwren_: +
[18:21] <jcastro> that's all gone now though
[18:21] <jrwren_> it is?
[18:21] <jcastro> it's a key/value pair in gsettings or somesuch
[18:21] <snap-l> and honestly the gconf thing is a red herring. It's not bad in aggregate. Just a pain to have to dive in there to change something that was simple to change before
[18:22] <jcastro> or you could you know, just use your computer. :p
[18:22] <snap-l> Like having to do about:config to turn off cookies
[18:22] <jrwren_> they just need some nice cmdline kvp manipulation commands for changing them and it would be all good, a lot like old apple netinfo :p
[18:22] <jcastro> desktops are to show apps and get out of the way, if you're sitting there all day messing with your desktop settings then seriously, get to work
[18:23] <jrwren_> BUT I WANT A 100PX DIFFERENTIAL DECAY GRADIENT!!! NOT THE ONE IT CAME WITH!!!
[18:23] <jcastro> (the lack of a font dialog is bs though, that should be in there."
[18:23] <snap-l> jcastro: It's a papercut. most of the time I don't fiddle with my desktop, but if I want to make a change, I'd like to get in and get out
[18:23] <jcastro> jrwren_: NO, YOU SUCK. 99 PIXELS! NOT 100!
[18:23] <snap-l> It's like having to reset your car firmare to reset the presets on the radio
[18:25] <jrwren_> jcastro: LOL
[18:25] <jrwren_> but I'm really glad I can't change engine calibration settings on my ECM
[18:25] <snap-l> jrwren_: And there's a nice port for changing them should you want to while driving
[18:26] <jrwren_> ODB? oh HELL nO.
[18:26] <jrwren_> gconf is WAY more complex than ODB :p
[18:26] <snap-l> I'm not saying it should be easy to blitz my desktop environment, I'm saying there's certain fit and finish things that should be easier to do
[18:26] <jrwren_> err OBD
[18:27] <jrwren_> in all honestly, i don't care.
[18:27] <snap-l> ie: move the seat, mirrors, radio presets, temperature controls
[18:27] <jrwren_> i don't care about this at all.
[18:27] <jrwren_> if I cared, I'd write software to do what I want :)
[19:00] <brousch> jrwren_: Do you know Mark Stanislav?
[19:01] <jrwren_> name sounds familiar
[19:01] <jrwren_> i think i've met him, but its been years since we've talked
[19:02] <brousch> Security guy at Networks Group
[19:02] <brousch> OK. He gave a talk at GRDevDay and we're having him out next month for web security day at GRWebDev
[19:19] <snap-l> Is he a prof at Eastern Michigan?
[19:23] <brousch> snap-l: EMU is listed in his "Education" section on linkedin, but I assume he was a student
[19:23] <snap-l> He apparently has a "rate my professor" page.
[19:23] <brousch> Wait, adjunct lecturer 2009-2011
[21:07] <snap-l> Yay new keyboard is on it's way.
[21:11] <rick_h_>  snap-l yay
[21:13] <snap-l> Yeah, saves me from making a separate Amazon order
[21:13] <snap-l> for a Filco
[22:26] <kingklick> whatsup everyone long time no talk....this is visualassassin, had to change name
[22:26] <rick_h_> doh
[22:31] <kingklick> have a homework question...shell scripting, cant figure it out for the life of me
[22:57] <Blazeix> kingklick: go ahead and ask the question
[22:59] <kingklick> i have to write a program to get two numbers from a user and calculate the first number times the second number and show the result. I can only use one loop and the addition operator (+)...cannot use multiplication. I understand what I am supposed to do just dont know how to write it.
[23:06] <Blazeix> what do you have so far? you can use http://pastebin.com/ to share your script
[23:09] <kingklick> i really have nothing....our teacher thinks we are all programmers and tells us if we dont know than google it....well ive been googling for 3 hours and have come up with nothing
[23:09] <kingklick> this is an intro class and noone in the class has ANY programming background
[23:21] <Blazeix> what sort of loops have you talked about in class?
[23:21] <Blazeix> or what sort of loop do you want to use
[23:22] <kingklick> for loops and while loops.....see i dont know, our teacher never really touched on the reasons why u need to use a certain one and what criteria makes using one better than the other
[23:24] <Blazeix> ok, so i'd start out by making a for loop that just prints out numbers from 1 to 10. that's a good starting point
[23:24] <Blazeix> next i'd try to make my script accept user input, and print out the numbers from 1 to the user-input-number.
[23:26] <kingklick> ok, i can echo statements and read the user input...im okay at doing that. I know i can take those two numbers and perform a calculation to get the product without multiplying. Just dont know how to write it in code
[23:28] <greg-g> try the first step type thing Blazeix suggested
[23:28] <greg-g> just write something that prints 1 to 10 in a loop
[23:28] <greg-g> then, from there, you can modify that to do other things, but the basic framework is done
[23:29] <greg-g> what language, btw?
[23:29] <kingklick> shell scripting in vi
[23:29] <kingklick> if it is considered a certain language i have no clue....teacher never told us
[23:30] <greg-g> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/loops1.html
[23:30] <greg-g> http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/07/bash-for-loop-examples/
[23:31] <Blazeix> kingklick: using the term 'bash' might help you in your googling
[23:31] <greg-g> indeed
[23:36] <kingklick> appreciate it guys, ill do what i can.
[23:36] <Blazeix> no problem, feel free to ask us any other questions
[23:37] <kingklick> will do
[23:45] <jrwren_> poor guy.
[23:52] <kingklick> jrwren:  who me?
[23:52] <jrwren_> yes
[23:53] <kingklick> ha....y do u say that?
[23:54] <jrwren_> because you sound so lost and yet you have this task to do.
[23:55] <kingklick> yeah that pretty much sums it up lol. Noone had ANY of the homework done for last week. The teacher had to pretty much explain how to do every single program because nobody understood
[23:56] <jrwren_> sounds like a bunch of lazy students :p
[23:56] <jrwren_> what kind of class is it?
[23:56] <kingklick> im a web design guy, not a programmer. And i only know so much about linux. Yeah well that goes without saying. It is college so ppl have jobs and kids. Intro to linux/unix
[23:57] <jrwren_> ah, college, so an instructor.
[23:57] <kingklick> yeah
[23:57] <jrwren_> its college, the point of college is to teach yourself.
[23:58] <jrwren_> that said: IME math adn computer instructors are the worst at explaining the point of things.
[23:59] <kingklick> that seems like an oxymoron. What is the point of paying to go to college to have the instructors work for you, if you have to teach yourself. That is there job, to teach us. Self-research and studying is also good too, but seems redundant
[23:59] <jrwren_> let me guess: this is community college?
[23:59] <kingklick> business college