[00:00] <knome> the player should be as invisible as possible anyway
[00:00] <pleia2> ok
[00:00] <knome> it's also good to have a file searching utility, but i don't think we should mention it's called catfish
[00:00] <pleia2> drc: your comments are helpful, thanks :)
[00:00] <knome> or tell the menu editor is called menulibre
[00:00] <knome> because our marketing target audience doesn't care :)
[00:00] <knome> it's cool for linux geeks...
[00:00] <pleia2> ok
[00:01] <knome> just my €0.02
[00:01] <drc> pleia2: I used to do this sort of thing for a living (PSYOPs in the Army :)
[00:01] <pleia2> nice!
[00:01] <knome> we should focus more on the tasks than the applications anyway...
[00:19] <knome> something bad happened.
[00:19] <Unit193> You broke it.
[00:20] <knome> yeah, probably
[00:20] <knome> looked like some syncing problems
[00:20] <knome> works again when i loaded from the original url
[00:20] <knome> probably broke the copy in my own google drive or sth
[00:21] <pleia2> google docs sucks less than other multiplayer editors, all of which suck ;)
[00:21] <knome> yeah
[00:21] <pleia2> the internet is not so good thing
[00:22] <knome> yeah, pleia2 should come more often to scandinavia
[00:22] <pleia2> yes
[00:22] <knome> will get free accommodation too
[00:22] <pleia2> woo, knome's couch
[00:23] <knome> hehe :)
[00:23] <pleia2> careful what you offer, I can work from anywhere these days
[00:23] <knome> other options available as well :P
[00:23] <knome> my mum has extra rooms.
[00:23] <pleia2> astraljava's couch?
[00:23] <pleia2> oh ok
[00:24] <knome> even with beds!
[00:24] <pleia2> spiffy
[00:24] <knome> though i'm not sure about her english skills :D
[00:24] <pleia2> XDS at knome's mom's house \o/
[00:24] <knome> lawl
[00:24] <knome> does the venue have to be the same where you sleep?
[00:24] <knome> oh my..
[00:25] <knome> that gets hard, but i can still think of few places.
[00:25] <pleia2> hehe
[00:25] <knome> not anybody's home, but probably organizable :P
[00:25] <pleia2> if only people know what yahoos were running xubuntu
[00:25] <pleia2> s/know/knew
[00:25] <knome> yup.
[00:25] <knome> xubuntu would probably be much more popular!
[00:25] <pleia2> lol
[00:25] <drc> yahoos?  then you can't work anywhere except the office.
[00:25] <knome> what about the flyer content?
[00:26] <pleia2> well, posting our picture on G+ didn't make us lose all our users ;)
[00:26] <knome> http://instantrimshot.com/
[00:26] <pleia2> someone was like "that's what I thought they'd look like" - still trying to figure out what that means :)
[00:26] <pleia2> prolly we look like geeks
[00:26] <knome> lol
[00:26] <knome> yeah
[00:27] <knome> http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
[00:27] <knome> that's better url :P
[00:27] <pleia2> there you go
[00:27] <knome> meh.
[00:27] <knome> the intro part is overlapping with the FAQ.
[00:28] <knome> we're saying the same things twice
[00:28] <pleia2> oh right, we were working on something
[00:28] <knome> are you drunk?
[00:28] <knome> the cursor movements don't make any sense
[00:28] <pleia2> no, just distracted
[00:29] <pleia2> oh, I think there was lag
[00:29] <knome> hehe
[00:29] <knome> yeah, blame google...
[00:29]  * knome gets another beer
[00:29] <knome> i can't stand you drunk sober!
[00:29] <pleia2> :P
[00:29] <pleia2> I think they answer different things, we are saying it's Ubuntu-based twice but in the FAQ we get to the core of what people are asking when they ask that question
[00:31] <pleia2> I think on a printed flyer we also want URLs to be like xubuntu.org/contribute
[00:31] <pleia2> rather than with http:/// blah
[00:31] <Unit193> OOooh!  Pics on G+?  I should post it! :D
[00:32] <pleia2> Unit193: https://plus.google.com/u/1/112064450121097287690/posts/KYt6xVAM2qp
[00:32] <knome> Sean DavisOct 30, 2012
[00:32] <knome> Reply
[00:32] <knome> Makes me want to make it to the next UDS.  :-)﻿
[00:32] <knome> PRICELESS!
[00:32] <Unit193> Ah yeah, that one.  There was another too. :P
[00:33] <Unit193> knome: Also, good luck with that one.
[00:33] <knome> well it was sean who wrote that.
[00:33] <knome> Jeremy DavisFeb 27, 2013
[00:33] <knome> Reply
[00:33] <knome> Heroes﻿
[00:33] <knome> awesome comment.
[00:34] <pleia2> :)
[00:34] <knome> pleia2, please look at the intro part.
[00:34] <knome> it's daunting.
[00:34] <Unit193> Also, there's a larger version, or better pic because I was able to get the name off the guys name tag. :P
[00:35] <pleia2> Unit193: the full version is up on my flickr I think
[00:35] <knome> mmh, i had some beers and other alcoholic drinks with christian on few nights
[00:35] <knome> i should make sure i got those.
[00:35] <Unit193> pleia2: Sounds right.
[00:35] <pleia2> knome: yeah, intro is blah blah
[00:35] <knome> i mean photos
[00:37] <knome> ha, pleia2's flickr photostream reminded me to put back the ear buds after the visit to kitchen.
[00:37] <pleia2> hehe
[00:40] <knome> aha, now i found the "other" photo Unit193 talked about
[00:40] <knome> it was the one "after several beers"
[00:41] <knome> back to working with the flyer
[00:42] <pleia2> I love that photo!
[00:42] <pleia2> micahg is so cute :)
[00:42] <knome> yeah, we look like we diagonally stack.
[00:42] <pleia2> hehe
[00:43] <knome> who wouldn't be cute after that meal he had!
[00:44] <pleia2> ok, I don't know where on a flyer this intro text would go
[00:44] <pleia2> do we even need it after the bold bit?
[00:44] <knome> no.
[00:44] <pleia2> and I think on the back of the flyer we can list all our resources
[00:45] <knome> definitely
[01:03] <pleia2> I don't like (standard)
[01:03] <knome> it's for consideration
[01:03] <knome> either keep it or lose it
[01:03] <knome> i don't care
[01:03] <knome> if keep it, lose the ()'s
[01:03] <pleia2> hm, and I think it should be more like "What can I do with Xubuntu?"
[01:03] <knome> yeah, that's better
[01:04] <pleia2> "make them look like you’re actually doing something" haha
[01:04] <pleia2> yeah
[01:05] <pleia2> amagad logo
[01:05] <knome> haha
[01:07] <knome> lol, the logo doesn't want to move as far as i'd like it to
[01:07] <pleia2> it's ok, we'll write this in a proper document format later
[01:08] <knome> you got to be kidding, i thought we layed this out in gdocs
[01:08] <pleia2> :P
[01:10] <knome> not sure if that layout is what we want, but at least it now has the desktop image and logo
[01:11] <knome> could we use one of the photo-CoF's?
[01:12] <pleia2> photo?
[01:12] <pleia2> I just grabbed this one from the brand resources
[01:12] <knome> those quite old ones but with real people
[01:12] <knome> remember those?
[01:12] <pleia2> ah, maybe
[01:12] <pleia2> not naked
[01:12] <knome> but...
[01:12] <knome> nvm.
[01:12] <knome> yeah, any of them goes
[01:12] <pleia2> might make it look a bit dated
[01:13] <knome> what if we recolor it? :P
[01:13] <pleia2> make it orange!
[01:13] <knome> we should have taken a xubuntu circle of friends photo!
[01:13] <pleia2> hehe
[01:13] <knome> http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/60/05/009722/ubuntu-warty-login.jpg
[01:13] <knome> non-naked enough? :P
[01:14] <knome> actually that was the first image i found from goole
[01:14] <knome> don't blame me!
[01:14] <pleia2> hahaha, nooo
[01:14] <pleia2> someone brought those up during Ubucon last weekend, Jono was like "those were Mark's fault!"
[01:14] <knome> :P
[01:15] <knome> http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/ubuntu-people-450x300.png
[01:15] <pleia2> "also brown" "ugh, yeah, shut up"
[01:15] <knome> never saw this before
[01:15] <pleia2> yeah, those are the ones
[01:15] <knome> ha
[01:15] <pleia2> it was a whole "calendar" package
[01:15] <knome> :D
[01:15] <knome> ok
[01:16] <pleia2> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Ubuntu_Warty_visual_theme/Image_archive
[01:16] <pleia2> sad that I found it on the GF wiki x_x
[01:17] <knome> wow.
[01:17] <knome> yeah, i never saw those
[01:17] <knome> weren't there more less-sexist photos?
[01:18] <pleia2> no, it was all kind of awful
[01:18] <knome> aha
[01:18] <knome> then we should forget that
[01:18] <pleia2> hehe
[01:18] <knome> i mean
[01:18] <pleia2> I wasn't serious about using them, I was making a joke about their existance!
[01:18] <knome> probably not good to remind people of those photos anyway
[01:18] <pleia2> yeah
[01:19] <pleia2> the thoughts tend to go "remember when Ubuntu used people in their marketing?" "yeah, remember the naked ones!"
[01:19] <knome> :D
[01:19] <knome> the plain ubuntu icon is boring, though
[01:19] <knome> or should one say "naked" icon
[01:19] <pleia2> I don't think we need it to be non-boring
[01:19] <pleia2> lol
[01:19] <pleia2> we want xubuntu screenshots to be the exciting part of this flyer :)
[01:20] <knome> why put up the icon there anyway then?
[01:20] <pleia2> it's a good association to have
[01:20] <pleia2> we are a recognised flavor, good to advertise the relationship visually
[01:20] <knome> even if it was one with abuse?
[01:21] <knome> (the relationship)
[01:21] <knome> oh well
[01:21] <pleia2> :P
[01:21] <knome> did we decide on a format yet?
[01:21] <knome> better go with one first
[01:21] <pleia2> nope
[01:21] <knome> full page should be relatively easy to fit to 4-on-1 too
[01:21] <pleia2> depends on how good your eyeballs are
[01:21] <knome> lol
[01:22] <knome> i'm not talking about simply zooming out
[01:22] <pleia2> oh :)
[01:22] <knome> the design is probably easier to convert to that
[01:22] <knome> we probably need to drop some text at least
[01:22] <pleia2> yeah
[01:23] <knome> three-section would work as well if...
[01:23] <pleia2> I like the three-section ones a lot
[01:23] <knome> the "first" column could be simply copied thrice
[01:23] <knome> that wouldn't be 4-on-1 but 3-on-1
[01:24] <pleia2> they're harder to print though, anyone with a printer can print out a sheet
[01:24] <pleia2> the 3-section one you really need a professional printer
[01:24] <knome> unless we make it fit a standard sheet.
[01:24] <pleia2> double sided, need alighnment
[01:24] <pleia2> -h
[01:24] <pleia2> I am getting tired
[01:25] <knome> but isn't that a problem with the single sheet too, if it's 2-sided
[01:25] <knome> (and why wouldn't it be)
[01:25] <pleia2> you don't fold that one, so alignment isn't so critical
[01:26] <knome> if we make the sides separate from others, i don't think it's critical even with a foldable
[01:26] <knome> eg. just make sure text doesn't flow from side to another
[01:26] <knome> then it's not too bad even if you make a mistake
[01:26] <pleia2> yeah, still need to make sure margins are big enough
[01:26] <knome> as long as you print on both sides, not only one
[01:26] <knome> same problem with single sheets too
[01:27] <knome> 1cm is quite fine for most printers
[01:27] <knome> and we can make the graphics appear even in that area, if soembody has a printer that can print to the edge
[01:27] <pleia2> yeah
[01:27] <knome> just make sure there's nothing important
[01:27] <knome> so it's a 3-fold then?
[01:29] <knome> i could do some quicky drafts if we decide on a direction... O:)
[01:32] <pleia2> that seems good
[01:36] <knome> cool, i just created a nice template
[02:01] <knome> pleia2, you still around?
[02:01] <pleia2> mhmm
[02:02] <knome> good
[02:02]  * pleia2 working on UWN
[02:02] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer/3fold-draft-1.png
[02:02] <knome> there's some layouting
[02:03] <pleia2> pretty
[02:03] <knome> ta ta
[02:28] <Len-nb> knome, I was 'listening in" above and you mentioned a menulibre, I am guessing that is a joke? I have not been pleased with alacarte.
[02:29] <Len-nb> Too much trouble with supporting people who use it.
[02:34] <knome> Len-nb, we'll definitely have menulibre. the point was that we don't need to mention the application names for people who don't most probably understand the difference of Unity and Xfce.
[02:34] <micahg> pleia2: do I have time to get something in UWN still?
[02:35] <Len-nb> knome, my interest is in something better than alacarte
[02:35] <Len-nb> For studio
[02:35] <knome> Len-nb, like menulibre?
[02:36] <Len-nb> I haven't seen it, where would I look?
[02:36] <Len-nb> Synaptic can't find it knome 
[02:36] <knome> https://launchpad.net/menulibre
[02:36] <Len-nb> Thanks
[02:37] <knome> https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/devel for a PPA
[02:37] <knome> we'll upload it to raring.
[02:37] <Len-nb> I'll try it out
[02:39] <knome> Len-nb, if you have problems, just ping bluesabre. he's the developer
[02:40] <knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer/3fold-draft-2.png
[02:40] <Len-nb> If its anything like catfish, it'll be good
[02:40] <pleia2> micahg: the cutoff is end of Sunday UTC (so unless it's back-dated... :))
[02:41] <knome> pleia2, could actually switch the xubuntu/cof logos.
[02:41] <micahg> oh, hrm /me fail
[02:41] <knome> micahg, next week then!
[02:41] <micahg> it's already a week old ;)
[02:41] <pleia2> what is?
[02:42] <micahg> new MOTUs
[02:42] <pleia2> knome: what about the first screenshot?
[02:42] <pleia2> micahg: oh sure, send them to -news-team and I'll mark them as being added at last week's meeting
[02:42] <pleia2> knome: it's going off the edge!
[02:42] <knome> pleia2, what about that?
[02:42] <knome> pleia2, that's the idea.
[02:42] <knome> pleia2, we can move that around if you don't think we should have anything to that
[02:43] <pleia2> knome: I don't think I like it (but I don't have art brain either
[02:44] <knome> just a sec.
[02:44] <knome> i can change it
[02:47] <bluesabre> finally back now, probably going to bed
[02:47] <knome> bluesabre, wait... what?
[02:47] <bluesabre> will catch up tomorrow :D
[02:47] <knome> bluesabre, you going to bed before me?
[02:47] <bluesabre> I've spent the whole weekend helping my mother-in-law move
[02:47] <bluesabre> I'm completely exhaused
[02:47] <bluesabre> *exhausted
[02:48] <knome> apparently you didn't have enough T(ea)
[02:48] <knome> har har har har har har
[02:48] <knome> ...
[02:48] <bluesabre> jerk
[02:48] <bluesabre> :P
[02:48] <knome> lol
[02:48] <knome> that was dry, but good
[02:49] <knome> anyway, good night!
[02:49] <pleia2> good night bluesabre! :)
[02:50] <bluesabre> night everyone (my wife actually enjoyed that joke, now she thinks you're witty)
[02:50] <knome> haha, good good ;)
[02:50] <pleia2> lol
[02:56] <knome> i don't know what he means "thinks" i'm witty
[02:57] <knome> of course i am!
[02:57] <pleia2> heheh
[02:57] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_flyer/3fold-draft-3.png
[02:58] <knome> now go produce me more content!
[02:59] <Len-nb> knome menulibre doesn't seem to run in 13.04 xubuntu. I'll talk to bluesabre tomorrow.
[02:59] <knome> sure :)
[02:59] <knome> Len-nb, did you try running it from the command line?
[02:59] <knome> that might give some meaningful feedback
[03:01] <Len-nb> Ya, but if he is gone to bed I can do that tomorrow
[03:01] <knome> yup
[03:02] <Len-nb> ImportError: cannot import name GError
[03:02] <Len-nb> I think that was one of the things that showed when he first did catfish too, a version difference from 12.04
[03:03] <knome> yeah
[03:03] <Len-nb> knome, do you know much about how xfce works internally?
[03:03] <knome> i wouldn't say so
[03:04] <Len-nb> k, I was wondering how the de knows the monitor setup changed. :)
[03:05] <knome> #xfce-dev is a good channel for that kind of questions :)
[03:05] <Len-nb> Thanks, I want to make something that does something useful with a second monitor.
[03:05] <knome> heh
[03:06] <knome> very mysterious!
[03:06] <Len-nb> Not really, dual monitors are a bit of a sore spot in Studio
[03:07] <knome> bluesabre has been working on a monitor setup app as well...
[03:07] <Len-nb> lots of people use them and a default of superimposed is not great
[03:07] <knome> so you really should ping him.
[03:07] <Len-nb> OK, I'll hit him with that tomorrow too then.
[03:12] <knome> pleia2, an infobox or sth might work at the bottom of the middle page
[03:12] <knome> pleia2, unless we want to fill it with more q&a
[03:13] <pleia2> well, I was thinking we might need to spread things out more, since this really should be 2-sided
[03:13] <knome> want to do that?
[03:14] <pleia2> maybe add more shiny pictures
[03:14] <pleia2> I was thinking center back could be a huge infobox
[03:14] <pleia2> also, you should sleep, I got tired 2 hours ago :)
[03:14] <knome> hah
[03:15] <knome> the paragraph text is now 10pt
[03:17] <knome> pleia2, does that comment mean you won't review the about dialog with me today? :P
[03:18] <pleia2> I will review it with you today UTC
[03:18] <pleia2> just need to wait, oh, 15 hours or so
[03:18] <pleia2> :P
[03:18] <knome> ha
[03:25] <knome> i think i'll go read a book, then to bed
[03:26] <knome> thanks everybody that took part to the sprint regardless of the events this week
[03:26] <knome> see you later!
[03:26] <knome> ---->
[03:28] <Unit193> Adios!
[03:30] <pleia2> good night
[06:45] <astraljava> pleia2: Nah, I welcome only slightly prettier creatures on my couch. *smirk*
[07:12] <ochosi> maddernick: not sure what plymouth changes you're referring to exactly, but i did review and merge your changes around 1month ago
[08:42] <Maccer> Seems like the people at #xfce-dev have a different view on what the Thunar UI should be. I'm wondering what #xubuntu thinks about this patch I made recently for Thunar though:
[08:42] <Maccer> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9889
[08:43] <Unit193> Hey, for several of the folks it's the middle of the night, so answeres may be slow.
[08:44] <Maccer> Unit193: Ah. It is the same here. I just don't know, XFCE developers mostly reside in Europe. Xubuntu developers are mostly in the US I presume.
[08:45] <Maccer> I'll repost in about 12 hours.
[08:47] <Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders varies.  I personally use the terminal a ton, and otherwise am a shift+delete'er
[08:51] <Maccer> Ah knome and ochosi are xubuntu devs. Cool.
[10:03] <maddernick> ochosi: yup, but I made a commit that same day but 1hour later :P
[10:03] <ochosi> maddernick: yeah, but you only removed commented code iirc
[10:04] <maddernick> dead code and some spinner change iirc
[10:04] <ochosi> spinner change too? are you sure?
[10:04] <maddernick> i think something like adjusting the time for that
[10:04] <maddernick> lemme check
[10:04] <ochosi> yeah, but that's just something i had suggested as a patch before and then already merged in myself
[10:05] <ochosi> so the changes from your last version to mine was only the dead code
[10:05] <maddernick> oh okay
[10:06] <ochosi> but plz check to be sure
[10:06] <maddernick> yeah, its just + 0.1 instead of 0.2
[10:06] <ochosi> mkay
[10:06] <ochosi> that should be fine already
[10:06] <ochosi> i tested in a vbox with R
[10:07] <maddernick> I may have known about this, but forgotten, thus I bothered you for nothing :<
[10:07] <maddernick> okay cool
[10:07] <ochosi> no problemo
[11:05] <zequence> Are you guys planning a session during UDS?
[11:06] <zequence> I'm thinking Ubuntu Studio could just join yours, if it's about rolling release
[11:06] <zequence> And, perhaps we could even suggest a community session where all flavors could joing, though, there's already one for Ubuntu
[11:06] <zequence> knome: ^
[11:08] <bluesabre> Len-nb: Yeah, theres a small one-line bug in menulibre right now, I am going to fix it when I get home tonight
[11:08] <bluesabre> And the monitor setup application is an Xfce application, inside of xfce4-settings
[11:16] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[11:32] <knome> zequence, ironically, i think it might make more sense to have our own sessions *after* vUDS when the ubuntu folks have let their decisions known.
[11:38] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[11:38] <bluesabre> whats up?
[13:03] <jjfrv8> Good afternoon, knome. I read the IRC sprint logs and checked the updated wiki.  Looks like the stuff I can help with (docs and testing)...
[13:03] <jjfrv8> have been postponed until after vUDS.
[13:03] <knome> jjfrv8, yeah... we want to see how things span out and react accordingly
[13:03] <jjfrv8> I'll check back after the dust settles.
[13:03] <knome> jjfrv8, not all of the things make sense do work on if the release model changes
[13:04] <knome> jjfrv8, sure, we're much wiser later this week
[13:04] <jjfrv8> agreed.
[15:27] <skellat> The blueprint has been approved by the UDS-1303 organizers but there has not yet been a time slot assigned to discuss general contingencies: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
[15:40]  * skellat moves blueprint to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/community-xubuntu-contingencies
[15:40] <ochosi> just wondering: what problems does kde's release cycle cause kubuntu?
[15:41] <micahg> ochosi: 6 mo cadence, Ubuntu moving to 2yr cadence
[15:41] <ochosi> right
[15:41] <ochosi> i guess we won't have _that_ problem with xfce :p
[15:42] <ochosi> while theoretically it would have a 1year cadence, it in fact rather has a 2year cadence
[15:42] <micahg> scottk mentioned derived distros, I forgot about that
[15:42] <yofel> it's a matter of what we in kubuntu can call a "release". Currently we have releases for each of the KDE SC releases. With the rolling release that's not as aligned anymore
[15:43] <micahg> we can use a derived distro every year based on the previous LTS to release Xfce + anything else we want
[15:43] <skellat> micahg: Derived Distro was differentiated from the Flavors, though.  Derived Distro was used to mean Linux Mint while Xubuntu remains a Flavor.
[15:44] <micahg> skellat: I was referring to the derived distro feature in LP, we'd still be in the archive and release the LTS with Ubuntu
[15:44] <skellat> micahg: Okay
[15:44] <ochosi> not sure the xfce updates can't be offered along everything else
[15:44] <ochosi> i mean practically we're shipping _parts_ of xfce4.12 in R
[15:44] <ochosi> and with the PPAs we're also shipping them back
[15:46] <skellat> Well, xfce4.12 is set to drop on 2013-03-10
[15:46] <ochosi> it would be among the few xfce releases that happen on time ;)
[15:46] <micahg> xfce 4.12 wouldn't be in 13.04 regardless
[15:46] <ochosi> well it partly is already
[15:46] <ochosi> all the components that had releases in 4.12 are in R already
[15:47] <micahg> not the core libraries, only the extras
[15:47] <micahg> *core apps
[15:47] <ochosi> thunar? xfce4-settings?
[15:47] <micahg> xfce4-settings | 4.10.0-1ubuntu3 | raring/universe | source, amd64, armhf, i386, powerpc
[15:48] <ochosi> hm, that'd be surprising if mr_pouit had only uploaded it to the ppa and not R
[15:49] <ochosi> but yeah, seemingly that's the case
[15:49]  * ochosi scratches his head
[15:49] <ochosi> anyway, i'd consider exo and thunar core
[15:50] <micahg> not versioned 4.12 :)
[15:50] <ochosi> pfff :)
[15:50] <ochosi> well anyway, i was just trying to make a point
[15:51] <ochosi> xfce is quite modular, which helps us with updating single components
[15:51] <skellat> Okay
[15:52] <skellat> Now if I could just figure out who the "community" track lead is so I can propose pushing the contingencies blueprint to later in the day Wednesday, we could be set
[16:16] <skellat> Alrighty, we've got a time!  The Xubuntu meeting at UDS-1303 is scheduled for Wednesday running 18:00 - 18:55 UTC which should let us see what has happened with everything else by that point.  It is the second to last slot available, after all.  Time conversion here: http://timeanddate.com/s/2c85
[16:16] <knome> i will have to see if i can make it
[16:17] <skellat> Let dholbach know if we need to change the time
[16:17] <knome> nah, earlier would only be worse
[16:17] <skellat> The only other slot available would start at 1900 UTC
[16:18] <knome> it's fine as it is. if i can't make it, then i can't
[16:18] <skellat> Alrighty.  I gotta make a couple phone calls to shift an appointment so I can be sure that I myself can attend.
[16:19] <skellat> Though first I have to figure out where my cat dragged my cell phone to...
[16:20]  * skellat disappears to run errands
[16:20] <knome> skellat, thanks for taking care
[16:58] <pleia2> I think astraljava called me ugly
[16:58] <GridCube> o:
[17:07] <knome> pleia2, no. he called you out-of-his-league
[18:15] <zequence> I caught something on kubuntus devel channel. Apparently Ubuntu might be developing its' own replacement for X https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec
[18:15] <knome> i read that somewhere else also
[18:18] <zequence> That's a pretty huge change
[18:28] <skellat> Okay, this Mir bit is going to make the contingencies discussion even more interesting.  We're getting to the point of breaking everything just to chase the zeitgeist which is an extremely dangerous gamble.
[18:28] <bluesabre_> they'll probably do it similarly to wayland, and continue to support X through a compatability layer
[18:29] <skellat> According to their spec, that'll be gone 2014-04: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec
[18:30] <skellat> Pardon me, we won't have that support layer until October 2013
[18:33] <skellat> The blueprint dependencies are huge for this Mir thingie: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-converged
[18:33] <bluesabre_> It has to be if its going to be a replacement for X.
[18:34] <skellat> Yeah
[18:35] <bluesabre_> I just don't see it being a big problem.  If it has a compatability layer for X, it won't be an entire replacement, and the only thing that will really have it as a requirement is Unity (for the time being)
[18:35] <bluesabre_> Wayland fails in that it essentially targets gtk3
[18:35] <knome> http://open.knome.fi/2013/03/04/is-uds-no-longer-uds/
[18:35] <knome> there we go.
[18:36] <knome> put the kettle on, get some tea and take a moment to sit down and read
[18:38] <skellat> You didn't mention we did get a Xubuntu-related session into UDS-1303 at the last minute :-)
[18:39] <knome> that's irrelevant to that post
[18:39] <knome> i could tweet about that though
[18:40] <skellat> I recognize the Kubuntu folks are staying away from UDS-1303 but we're going to get 55 minutes to use as productively as possible, I hope
[18:41] <skellat> We've got a late enough slot in the mess that we'll know more of what the endgame is looking like
[18:42] <knome> is there a uds schedule visible anywhere?
[18:42] <knome> i can't see one linked in the uds frontpage.
[18:42] <skellat> Yep: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/
[18:42] <knome> ok, cheers
[18:43] <skellat> Most of the scary stuff seems front-loaded to Tuesday anyhow
[18:46] <ochosi> bluesabre_: how does wayland essentially target gtk3? (i don't mean wrt gtk2, but wrt qt, which is what unity will be using)
[18:47] <bluesabre_> or maybe it's just that gtk3 is the only one showing off that it can use what wayland offers
[18:48] <ochosi> afaik kde is already working on a compositor or something
[18:48] <ochosi> and the toolkit shouldn't be behind gtk3 in terms of wayland integration, at least from what i heard at fosdem
[18:48] <knome> skellat, tweeted at https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/308649358474223616
[18:49] <ochosi> but anyway, we'll see whether canonical have the manpower to really pull this off
[18:49] <ochosi> bbiab
[18:49] <bluesabre_> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/toolkits.html
[18:49] <bluesabre_> looks like neither of them really have "native" support for wayland
[18:50] <bluesabre_> gtk has to be compiled with specific flags, qt has to use a plugin
[18:50] <bluesabre_> so, I suppose I take back my statement then
[18:51] <bluesabre_> :)
[18:51] <ochosi> :)
[18:51] <ochosi> just not sure why canonical really decided that neither wayland nor X works for them
[18:51] <ochosi> (especially considering the high workload that developing a display-server entails)
[18:52] <bluesabre_> maybe wayland isn't doesn't play friendly with a tiny form-factor
[18:52] <knome> maybe wayland isn't good for all the devices they want to support
[18:52] <knome> great minds think alike?
[18:52] <bluesabre_> clearly :D
[18:52] <knome> i've heard the variation that "idiots think alike" as well... ;)
[18:52] <bluesabre_> I try to be ignorant of that variant
[18:53] <knome> ;)
[18:53] <knome> well clearly it can't be that, because one of us isn't an idiot.
[18:59] <bluesabre_> 5 minutes without anybody challenging that, I think we're dafe
[18:59] <bluesabre_> damn
[18:59] <bluesabre_> *safe
[18:59] <bluesabre_> glad I was already sure that I wasn't an idiot
[18:59] <knome> :)
[19:00] <knome> did you mean: "I think we're daft"
[19:16] <drc> knome: Just got back from the hourly dogwalk (yes she's spoiled, but I'm retired and what else do I have to do?), saw the post about your UDS blog.  One of the most congnizant and coherent I've read, kudos.  Maybe if I could express myself that well, I wouldn't have had to vent :)
[19:20] <knome> drc, thanks. i had some people to review the logic as well though
[20:03] <astraljava> pleia2: Oh, oops. Thought we were talking about Teh Gnome. Pardon me!
[20:14] <knome> parrot you
[23:41] <ochosi> micahg: btw, as gmusicbrowser 1.1.10 has recently been released and contains quite a few fixes we could use well, it'd be nice to get this into R (i know it's late, so no worries if it doesn't work out)