| shadeslayer | zomg | 01:28 |
|---|---|---|
| shadeslayer | \o. | 01:28 |
| shadeslayer | \o/ | 01:28 |
| shadeslayer | \o/ | 01:28 |
| shadeslayer | I have hybrid graphics | 01:28 |
| shadeslayer | this is awesome | 01:28 |
| shadeslayer | except I do not know how to switch to igd | 01:28 |
| shadeslayer | or well | 01:30 |
| shadeslayer | the GPU hangs when switching | 01:30 |
| shadeslayer | btw anyone have recommendations on checking how good this radeon driver is in terms of 3D stuff | 02:04 |
| === murthy_ is now known as murthy | ||
| murthy | hello everyone | 03:00 |
| murthy | apachelogger: are you there? | 03:01 |
| murthy | apachelogger: merge this https://code.launchpad.net/~murthy/tomahawk/tomahawk-ubuntu | 03:10 |
| === murthy is now known as murthy_ | ||
| === valorie_ is now known as valorie | ||
| === Mamarok is now known as Guest70441 | ||
| highvoltage | ScottK: I wish I had your levels of optimism | 06:05 |
| === Guest70441 is now known as Mamarok | ||
| === valorie_ is now known as valorie | ||
| esing | Hello | 10:04 |
| esing | What is the google search syntax for krunner in kubuntu? | 10:04 |
| Riddell | esing: I think you have to turn that on | 10:07 |
| Riddell | gg:foo works | 10:09 |
| jussi | bah, seems #kde is dead :( | 10:10 |
| esing | Riddell, Do you use firefox and have the module web shortcuts checked in krunners options? | 10:10 |
| Riddell | no I use rekonq, yes I have the module web shortcuts ticked in krunners options | 10:10 |
| tsimpson | ggk::<term>, you can see a list from the ? icon in krunner | 10:11 |
| tsimpson | erm, only one :, not two | 10:11 |
| yofel | now even I'm confused, why ggk not gg? | 10:12 |
| yofel | (ggk works) | 10:12 |
| tsimpson | I don't know... the same reason it's ggg for google groups and ggn for google news | 10:13 |
| Riddell | ggk is google kubuntu | 10:14 |
| Riddell | Query=http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=ks&q=\\{@} | 10:14 |
| Riddell | incase you want google's money to go to canonical | 10:14 |
| Riddell | I think that can be removed | 10:14 |
| esing | The ? icon lists me gg:q , yet it`s not opening google | 10:15 |
| tsimpson | gg:q does nothing for me | 10:15 |
| jussi | anyone know how to "reset" kwallet? | 10:17 |
| jussi | its completely borked for me :/ | 10:17 |
| valorie | maybe there are relevant files in ~/.kde ? | 10:19 |
| tsimpson | open the manager and delete the wallet, I'd guess | 10:19 |
| valorie | haven't tried that with wallet though | 10:19 |
| jussi | tsimpson: tried that, worked in the poast, no dice anymore | 10:20 |
| jussi | I have a nice persistent password dialog... | 10:20 |
| tsimpson | I suppose if all else fails, (re)move ~/.kde/share/config/kwalletrc and ~/.kde/share/apps/kwallet/wallet.kwl | 10:22 |
| tsimpson | though it's probably best to do that while KDE isn't running | 10:22 |
| yofel | wgrant: btw. is there any useful information I could provide for debugging build failures without buildlog? like https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas/+archive/ppa/+build/4344530 | 10:24 |
| wgrant | yofel: That depwaited | 10:26 |
| wgrant | (several times) | 10:26 |
| wgrant | Not sure why it says failed | 10:26 |
| Mamarok | folks, you might check your lines in http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.10, it says "add-apt-repository", that should be "apt-add-repository", no? | 10:36 |
| Riddell | Mamarok: mm yes | 10:37 |
| tsimpson | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Oct 2 20:14 /usr/bin/apt-add-repository -> add-apt-repository | 10:37 |
| Mamarok | and then I am astonished if people tell me that the backports don't work :) | 10:37 |
| Riddell | tsimpson: interesting! | 10:38 |
| Riddell | Mamarok: well "fixed" anyway | 10:38 |
| Mamarok | thanks | 10:38 |
| Mamarok | one user tells me it also works with add-apt-repository, though | 10:39 |
| Mamarok | tsimpson: thanks :) | 10:39 |
| Riddell | yes, it's the same thing as tsimpson says | 10:39 |
| esing | Riddell, It works now for me too. I had to install konqueror and then activate gg: ggi: etc in konqueror's options "web shortcuts"; if you set firefox for your default webbrowser it will then also work for firefx | 11:05 |
| Riddell | esing: yeah it won't work if those are deselected. curious that they should be though | 11:17 |
| Riddell | ug this compile fail on linking to pthreads is a pain | 11:17 |
| Riddell | I think I'll give up on qtwebkit on powerpc | 11:32 |
| Riddell | ScottK: can you remember how to bypass the -proposed checks? | 11:33 |
| Riddell | ah it's that pesky qscintilla upload in proposed which is failing compiles | 11:44 |
| yofel | those are raring-only though, as in quantal everything built fine | 11:46 |
| yofel | well, kdenetwork i386 is still building | 11:47 |
| Riddell | yes | 11:47 |
| yofel | I'll do the precise upload later | 11:47 |
| Riddell | murthy_: fancy fixing some of the lintian issues in http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html ? | 11:47 |
| === amichair_ is now known as amichair | ||
| yofel | Riddell: can it be that your default dput target is still ubuntu? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/kstars/4:4.10.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu13.04~ppa2 | 12:13 |
| Riddell | wibble | 12:14 |
| Riddell | qscintilla symbols are voodoo | 12:18 |
| Riddell | pkgkde-symbolshelper does not seem to like them | 12:18 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: is there a generic armhf image for plasma-active? | 12:48 |
| shadeslayer | I remember you posting a link | 12:48 |
| shadeslayer | this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/daily-preinstalled/current/ | 12:48 |
| shadeslayer | that doesn't have the standard armhf zip :( | 12:49 |
| === Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz | ||
| BluesKaj | Howdy all | 12:56 |
| smartboyhw | Hiyas. Not going to be doing any packagimg for today + next two days, need to revise for tests. | 13:08 |
| yofel | smartboyhw: one thing about calligra yesterday: | 13:22 |
| yofel | If you upload to the backports PPA, please either make yourself a staging PPA where you build it and copy the binaries over, or upload with urgency >= medium so there isn't much of a delay between architecture builds. | 13:22 |
| yofel | Apt isn't very intelligent when it sees archive skew. | 13:22 |
| smartboyhw | yofel: OK... | 13:22 |
| * yofel make a note to write a policy for that somewhere | 13:22 | |
| smartboyhw | yofel: Are you running for KC? | 13:22 |
| yofel | I intend to, but need to fill out the wiki etc. first | 13:24 |
| smartboyhw | yofel :-( | 13:25 |
| smartboyhw | s/:-(/:-D/ | 13:25 |
| smartboyhw | Kubotu doesn't work!!!!!! | 13:26 |
| smartboyhw | yofel ignore the sad face. I am having an happy face | 13:27 |
| smartboyhw | \o/ | 13:27 |
| yofel | heh | 13:29 |
| smartboyhw | Typing mistakes.............. | 13:29 |
| * smartboyhw wonders will anyone write him testimonials... | 13:29 | |
| * shadeslayer has a excuse not to write testimonials for the next couple of days | 13:31 | |
| * smartboyhw asks shadeslayer why... | 13:32 | |
| shadeslayer | or to not write anything at all | 13:32 |
| shadeslayer | smartboyhw: need get my spects made :P | 13:32 |
| smartboyhw | shadeslayer: grrrrrrr | 13:33 |
| shadeslayer | all text is quite blurry at the moment | 13:33 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell, yofel: how about you guys? | 13:33 |
| * yofel wonders why smartboyhw needs testimonials, he has plenty. Yofel has 0 | 13:34 | |
| smartboyhw | yofel: That's for main Ubuntu membership...... I don't actually have any Kubuntu member testimonials .... | 13:35 |
| shadeslayer | we rarely do testimonials | 13:36 |
| shadeslayer | I had just one from ikonia when I applied | 13:37 |
| smartboyhw | shadeslayer: New world then:-P (for me) | 13:37 |
| shadeslayer | :) | 13:37 |
| === jono is now known as Guest21624 | ||
| === murthy_ is now known as murthy | ||
| murthy | hello everyone | 13:48 |
| smartboyhw | Hello murthy | 13:48 |
| murthy | smartboyhw: hi | 13:48 |
| lordievader | Good afternoon | 13:49 |
| murthy | Riddell: the packages which are marked orange in here ? http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html | 13:50 |
| smartboyhw | murthy: lintian warnings | 13:50 |
| murthy | Riddell: i guess the red ones? | 13:50 |
| smartboyhw | mm | 13:50 |
| smartboyhw | ! | 13:50 |
| murthy | smartboyhw: ya, but which package? | 13:51 |
| smartboyhw | Good my smartphone keyboard went haywire | 13:51 |
| yofel | murthy: yeah, ask if you don't know what you need to do (btw. google usually gives the right docs when you search for the tag) | 13:51 |
| smartboyhw | murthy: Look at the list!!!!!!!! | 13:51 |
| murthy | yofel: sure | 13:51 |
| yofel | there's probably some more warnings that should be whitelisted too | 13:51 |
| yofel | murthy: start with the ones that start with E: | 13:51 |
| murthy | smartboyhw: all the packages listed there? | 13:51 |
| yofel | those are errors. And you only need to look at the warnings in bold | 13:52 |
| smartboyhw | murthy: The orange ones first | 13:52 |
| murthy | yofel: i will take care of the lintian warning and i am eager | 13:52 |
| murthy | smartboyhw: give the color legend | 13:52 |
| Riddell | murthy: the yellow ones | 13:53 |
| yofel | there is no legend. RED: bad, ORANGE: not so bad, but still bad, GREEN: ok | 13:53 |
| murthy | smartboyhw: red=? orange=? green=? | 13:53 |
| murthy | yofel: ok | 13:53 |
| Riddell | s/yellow/orange/ then :) | 13:53 |
| kubotu | Riddell meant: "murthy: the orange ones" | 13:53 |
| smartboyhw | yofel: Clearly even the new qscintilla2-9ubuntu1 in the ninjas PPA doesn't build..... | 13:53 |
| murthy | Riddell: ok | 13:54 |
| * yofel hasn't look at that monstrousity | 13:54 | |
| smartboyhw | Riddell: Have you voted for a time of KC meeting? | 13:54 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: the symbols files in that don't work, pkgkde-symbols helper doesn't seem to be enough magic for it | 13:54 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: no, poke me again and I'll do it | 13:54 |
| yofel | actually, RED == something is actually *broken*, orange means there's stuff to fix, but the package would still work | 13:54 |
| murthy | where can i get the source tars? | 13:55 |
| yofel | murthy: 2 ways | 13:55 |
| yofel | either pull-ninjas-source from kubuntu-dev-tools | 13:55 |
| yofel | OR | 13:55 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell, I kn | 13:55 |
| yofel | you add the deb-src line for the PPA to your sources, then bzr builddeb can fetch the tar by itself | 13:56 |
| smartboyhw | s/kn/now officially poke you:-P/ | 13:56 |
| kubotu | smartboyhw meant: "Riddell, I now officially poke you:-P" | 13:56 |
| yofel | bzr-buildpackage-ppa from the kubuntu-automation branch is useful too here | 13:56 |
| smartboyhw | It's UDS starting time........... | 13:57 |
| * Riddell joins #ubuntu-uds-plenary | 13:57 | |
| murthy | yofel: every orange marked package is a i386 build, do they have something in common? | 13:58 |
| yofel | murthy: lintian doesn't run on amd64, that's all | 13:58 |
| murthy | yofel: what? | 13:59 |
| murthy | yofel: mine is amd64 install | 13:59 |
| yofel | the lintian warning generation is part of the architecture-independent build part, which is only run on the i386 builders | 13:59 |
| yofel | no point in generating the warnings twice | 13:59 |
| * yofel makes his way home, will join for the sessions later | 14:00 | |
| smartboyhw | ok | 14:01 |
| murthy | yofel: see you later | 14:01 |
| Riddell | UDS plenary live | 14:02 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell, hmm I clearly can't close the doodle poll.... | 14:03 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: cos of no good slot? | 14:03 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell: got my message? | 14:04 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: mm no? | 14:05 |
| Riddell | where is that? | 14:05 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell I can't close the Doodle poll even 4 KC members have voted.... | 14:06 |
| * smartboyhw makes ping of jussi and Darkwing | 14:06 | |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: the kubuntu council is deliberatly large in the expectation that not everyone will be able to take part all the time | 14:07 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: so it's fine to declaire it done even if not all KC people can be part of it | 14:07 |
| murthy | Riddell: are you aware of the new pbuilder hook B09lintian | 14:07 |
| Riddell | murthy: no, do tell | 14:07 |
| Riddell | I don't use pbuilder much | 14:08 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell no the trouble is that there would be not enough quorum for voting me as member.... | 14:08 |
| smartboyhw | ....... | 14:08 |
| murthy | Riddell: the lintian check after building the source shows warnings that are not shown by lintian during debuild -S | 14:08 |
| smartboyhw | g | 14:08 |
| murthy | Riddell: example http://paste.ubuntu.com/5557229/ | 14:09 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: hmm yes, keep pinging Darkwing and jussi then I guess, or add more times | 14:09 |
| Mamarok | smartboyhw: you seem to be a tad impatient, you only set up that doodle yesterday... | 14:10 |
| murthy | Riddell: so do you want me to look at the warnings during the debuild -S or the one that the new hook shows | 14:10 |
| Riddell | murthy: that's the same warning but with a description isn't it? | 14:10 |
| murthy | Riddell: no | 14:10 |
| Mamarok | smartboyhw: maybe avoid doing this on such a short notice? | 14:10 |
| smartboyhw | Mamarok: I am not.... I just want to settle a precise date | 14:10 |
| murthy | Riddell: those warnings wont show up during the debuils -S | 14:11 |
| murthy | Riddell: those warnings wont show up during the debuild -S | 14:11 |
| Riddell | Mamarok: be fair, it's the same notice as canonical gave us of wanting to drop the release :) | 14:11 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 14:11 |
| Mamarok | well, one day and sending 3 reminders since definitely IS impatient :) | 14:11 |
| murthy | Riddell: ya, the logs shows the description of the errors | 14:11 |
| Riddell | murthy: the ones in the logs would be the first ones to go for | 14:12 |
| murthy | Riddell: i just did a debuild -S for kactivities and from the log i can't see any erros except for the outdated standards. If you can confirm that, i will get an idea of this and i will follow it for the rest | 14:13 |
| murthy | Riddell: http://paste.kde.org/688208/ | 14:13 |
| Riddell | murthy: oh a debuild -S won't give you issues with the binary packages | 14:15 |
| Riddell | only a full binary build will do that | 14:15 |
| murthy | Riddell: in that case , i will see the warnings given after invoked by the new hook . | 14:15 |
| Riddell | murthy: yep, or just look at the logs on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html | 14:16 |
| murthy | Riddell: so i do a correction where should i put the change | 14:16 |
| Riddell | many can be ignored, see lintian-ignore.json in kubuntu-automation | 14:16 |
| Riddell | in kactivities the only one you need to care about is intra-source-package-circular-dependency libkactivities-bin libkactivities-models1 libkactivities6 | 14:16 |
| murthy | Riddell: ah thank you, i forgot about the build logs | 14:16 |
| Mamarok | Riddell: "to be fair, it's the same notice as canonical gave us of wanting to drop the release :)" <- what exactly are you refering to? | 14:18 |
| Riddell | Mamarok: where have you been since Thursday, canonical wants to drop non-LTS releases | 14:18 |
| Mamarok | ah, that | 14:19 |
| Mamarok | did they actually send that to kubuntu-devel? Or did they just make a press release | 14:19 |
| Riddell | Mamarok: discussion is on ubuntu-devel | 14:19 |
| Riddell | no decision yet (officially) | 14:19 |
| Mamarok | cause I remember having read it on G+ | 14:19 |
| Riddell | lwn has a story | 14:20 |
| Mamarok | oh well, I am not in ubuntu-devel, for obvious reasons | 14:20 |
| Riddell | I don't usually follow it much | 14:20 |
| Riddell | hmm everything compiled in http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html but only because I uploaded a qscintilla which compiles against amd64 (but not i386) | 14:24 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 14:24 |
| Riddell | ScottK: I see you dropped the symbols file there before, should we do the same again? | 14:25 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: if you're at a lose end lots of lintian issues on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html :) | 14:25 |
| murthy | Riddell: where can i put the change> | 14:26 |
| Riddell | UDS> canonical wants an SDK for ubuntu using QML, something I can support i think | 14:27 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell on mobile and not on computer for 3 days | 14:27 |
| Riddell | murthy: commit to bzr? | 14:27 |
| murthy | Riddell: in my custom branch and request a merge? | 14:27 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: ach with fancy mobiles these days you can still do development :) | 14:27 |
| Riddell | murthy: just commit, do you have access to ~kubuntu-packagers? | 14:27 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell mine isn't | 14:28 |
| smartboyhw | Is murthy Kubuntu member? | 14:28 |
| murthy | Riddell: don't know, checking my profile | 14:28 |
| murthy | smartboyhw: https://launchpad.net/~murthy | 14:29 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: no he's not | 14:29 |
| Riddell | (yet) | 14:29 |
| Riddell | but I don't think there's any policy against just adding people to ~kubuntu-packagers | 14:30 |
| Riddell | ScottK: correct me if I'm wrong there ^ | 14:30 |
| murthy | Riddell: I am not sure it will be a good idea to add me to it now | 14:30 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell if then add me too... Any objections? | 14:30 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: I have none | 14:31 |
| smartboyhw | ;-) | 14:31 |
| Riddell | but I could be forgetting some policy we have on that group | 14:31 |
| Riddell | yofel, apachelogger, shadeslayer: any memory of that? | 14:32 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell: trust? | 14:32 |
| smartboyhw | That's what they've been saying + in team descriptio. | 14:33 |
| smartboyhw | s/descriptio./description./ | 14:33 |
| kubotu | smartboyhw meant: "That's what they've been saying + in team description." | 14:33 |
| Riddell | yep | 14:33 |
| soee | hi guys, only 3 packages left to buld and 4.10.1 is ready ? | 14:34 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: not that I recall | 14:34 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw, murthy: so poke me into merging packaging changes and I'll get fed up and add you | 14:34 |
| Riddell | soee: for raring? aren't they all done? | 14:34 |
| murthy | ha ha ha | 14:34 |
| soee | Riddell, looking at http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html | 14:34 |
| smartboyhw | ok | 14:35 |
| Riddell | ah yes still to do the ones for qscintilla | 14:35 |
| smartboyhw | yep | 14:35 |
| Riddell | soee: but should be good to test now if you're up to it | 14:37 |
| soee | im on 12.10 here at work, i can test when i get home ~ 21:00 cet | 14:38 |
| soee | there i have 13.04 | 14:38 |
| Riddell | groovy | 14:39 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: trust | 14:40 |
| apachelogger | i.e. ~kubuntu-member | 14:40 |
| * smartboyhw is correct | 14:41 | |
| apachelogger | Riddell: what with membership being the established way of confirming trust | 14:41 |
| murthy | apachelogger: did you merge tomahawk from my branch lp:~murthy/tomahawk/tomahawk-ubuntu ? | 14:48 |
| apachelogger | no | 14:52 |
| Riddell | yofel: 4.10.1 is on mirrors, what's needed before we upload to raring? just more testing? | 14:53 |
| Riddell | !testers | 4.10.1 from ninjas | 14:53 |
| ubottu | 4.10.1 from ninjas: Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, smartboyhw, Quintasan, lordievader for information. | 14:53 |
| * smartboyhw can't test | 14:54 | |
| yofel | that should be all | 14:54 |
| Riddell | yofel: and qscintilla | 14:54 |
| Riddell | ScottK: how much would you kill me if I uploaded a qscintilla without a .symbols file? | 14:55 |
| yofel | ah right | 14:55 |
| smartboyhw | :-D | 14:56 |
| * Riddell joins appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk-roadmap interested in what toolkit they want to use | 14:57 | |
| Riddell | since QML doesn't have any/has loads depending on which way you look | 14:57 |
| * smartboyhw joins community-testing | 14:58 | |
| smartboyhw | KDE SC 4.10.1 is our. | 15:13 |
| smartboyhw | s/our/out/ | 15:13 |
| kubotu | smartboyhw meant: "KDE SC 4.10.1 is out." | 15:13 |
| Riddell | I'm running the archive upload script | 15:15 |
| smartboyhw | good<3 | 15:16 |
| Riddell | but it keeps breaking due to launchpad fail :( | 15:17 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 15:22 |
| yofel | yeah, I had to add a shitload of exception handling to the status script so you can actually see something -.- | 15:28 |
| yofel | even the backports needed manual fixing because pull-ppa-source can't handle launchpad errors | 15:28 |
| smartboyhw | Stupid Launchpad | 15:29 |
| Riddell | qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin is interesting | 15:30 |
| Riddell | cos the world needs yet another QML toolkit :) | 15:31 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 15:37 |
| shadeslayer | Quintasan: I'm flashing the tablet with ubuntu touch, will report tomorrow how well it works with PA | 15:38 |
| Quintasan | >Mir | 15:41 |
| Quintasan | >Mir | 15:41 |
| Quintasan | >better than Wayland | 15:41 |
| Quintasan | oh lol | 15:41 |
| Quintasan | Canonical pls | 15:41 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 15:42 |
| murthy | in terms of cross form factor ? | 15:42 |
| shadeslayer | well | 15:43 |
| Quintasan | murthy: This will NOT work | 15:43 |
| murthy | Quintasan: why not? | 15:43 |
| Quintasan | Beacuse. | 15:44 |
| Quintasan | Please tell me Unity is a success. | 15:44 |
| shadeslayer | I just hope that either kwin grows a backend for Mir or wayland stuff just works | 15:44 |
| shadeslayer | on touch devices | 15:44 |
| murthy | Quintasan: yes it is | 15:44 |
| mgraesslin | shadeslayer: KWin will never get a backend for Mir if it is Ubuntu only | 15:44 |
| Quintasan | murthy: lol, there are as many people bashing it as using that | 15:44 |
| shadeslayer | oh look, a mgraesslin | 15:44 |
| Quintasan | that's not success | 15:44 |
| * mgraesslin doesn't accept distro specific patches | 15:44 | |
| shadeslayer | mgraesslin: plz make Wayland rock | 15:44 |
| Darkwing | I was pinged. | 15:44 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 15:44 |
| smartboyhw | Darkwing yay | 15:45 |
| Quintasan | mgraesslin: Good, I don't want you to waste time on something that will be used by one distro | 15:45 |
| murthy | Quintasan: people don't like drastic changes | 15:45 |
| mgraesslin | shadeslayer: to be honest: I don't see any future for KWin on ubuntu | 15:45 |
| shadeslayer | mgraesslin: but wayland! | 15:45 |
| mgraesslin | I do not expect that Wayland will run on Ubuntu | 15:45 |
| Quintasan | murthy: Nor do I like people developing something that will be a waste of time | 15:45 |
| smartboyhw | Look at the last item on the topic and vote;-) | 15:45 |
| shadeslayer | mgraesslin: I'm reasonably certain that we can figure it out when the time comes to switch | 15:45 |
| mgraesslin | I expect Canonical to make it impossible to run anything except their home brew solution on top of their stack | 15:45 |
| shadeslayer | well | 15:46 |
| shadeslayer | that would suck | 15:46 |
| mgraesslin | personally I don't see any other reason to go with Mir in the first place | 15:46 |
| Quintasan | I vote we abandon Mir and Upstart at one point | 15:46 |
| mgraesslin | for KDE it would be easier to just say - we don't support Ubuntu and concentrate on "the Linux stack" which is Systemd + Wayland | 15:46 |
| mgraesslin | it could make much things easier | 15:46 |
| murthy | Quintasan: I like to see people using common stuff, but ubuntu don't like the idea of not accepting their ideas upstream | 15:46 |
| shadeslayer | :S | 15:47 |
| shadeslayer | mgraesslin: that's pretty harsh imho | 15:47 |
| mgraesslin | I'm sick of having always to have problems with Ubuntu | 15:47 |
| Quintasan | That's harsh but what the hell | 15:47 |
| mgraesslin | since yesterday we know it well get worse | 15:47 |
| mgraesslin | don't even want to think about the problems it will cause with Qt having an additional backend shipped | 15:48 |
| Quintasan | Why should we introduce YET ANOTHER DISPLAY SERVER when there is a new one it the works and the trasition will take much time | 15:48 |
| mgraesslin | all crash reports from Ubuntu wwe will be able to direct to /dev/null | 15:48 |
| shadeslayer | heh | 15:48 |
| Quintasan | Same shit (excuse poort wording) with Upstart | 15:48 |
| Quintasan | Systemd is superior to upstart in every way I can think of and yet we are forced to work with upstart | 15:48 |
| Darkwing | Oh goody, I'm not the only one who was stunned by Mir | 15:48 |
| mgraesslin | Quintasan: one difference, Upstart was before Systemd, otherwise I agree | 15:48 |
| shadeslayer | well, I just hope we can figure out something | 15:49 |
| Darkwing | Lemme guess, they are going to abandon pulse-audio for a new Canonical system | 15:49 |
| Quintasan | Darkwing: Canonical can't pull it off | 15:49 |
| shadeslayer | Darkwing: actually, they're using a AudioTrack backend for PA | 15:49 |
| Quintasan | They just can't | 15:49 |
| Darkwing | This is insane... | 15:49 |
| * mgraesslin thinks they lack expertise to develop a windowing system | 15:49 | |
| Darkwing | What are we doing for "UDS" anything with mumble? | 15:49 |
| shadeslayer | there was a ascii diagram somewhere in the backlog | 15:50 |
| Quintasan | If they have the power to make nvidia and ati make a driver for that crap then they could as well as persuade them to provide better support XD | 15:50 |
| shadeslayer | ^ | 15:50 |
| shadeslayer | Quintasan: that's my main concern | 15:50 |
| * mgraesslin doubts NVIDIA or AMD give a sh*** about mir | 15:50 | |
| Quintasan | Waste of time and money | 15:50 |
| shadeslayer | what about all the work that nVidia and AMD put into X and wayland | 15:50 |
| shadeslayer | oh | 15:51 |
| Quintasan | They don't give much crap about Linux overall so. | 15:51 |
| shadeslayer | mgraesslin: I was told Mir uses mesa | 15:51 |
| shadeslayer | same as wayland | 15:51 |
| Darkwing | If we are going to change from X then, why not wayland? | 15:51 |
| shadeslayer | what does that mean in terms of drivers? | 15:51 |
| mgraesslin | nothing | 15:51 |
| Quintasan | I somehow get the idea that Ubuntu is a sinking ship | 15:51 |
| shadeslayer | so same situation as of right now? | 15:51 |
| Riddell | Darkwing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec#Why_Not_Wayland_.2BAC8_Weston.3F | 15:52 |
| mgraesslin | shadeslayer: yes, but the difference is Wayland - complete ecosystem modulo Ubuntu and mir == Ubuntu | 15:52 |
| Darkwing | mesa? With Valve and Steam coming so hard toward Ubuntu they wouldn't want true acceleration??? | 15:52 |
| Riddell | Darkwing: (I don't understand it) | 15:52 |
| mgraesslin | fyi: the wiki page on Why not Wayland is mostly FUD | 15:52 |
| shadeslayer | :( | 15:52 |
| * Darkwing scratches his head | 15:52 | |
| murthy | Quintasan: on the contrary i guess ubuntu is teaming with corporate giants and with their requirements in mind they are doing stuff and so they will succeed | 15:52 |
| mgraesslin | or they don't understand Wayland | 15:53 |
| Riddell | mgraesslin: it does read a lot like wall of text not saying much | 15:53 |
| shadeslayer | then it makes sense for us to switch to wayland once the stack is mature enough | 15:53 |
| mgraesslin | Riddell: yesterday it contained clearly wrong statements | 15:53 |
| shadeslayer | and drop X altoghether | 15:53 |
| Quintasan | murthy: You won't convince me they have even 0,5% chance of success until I see that success | 15:53 |
| mgraesslin | shadeslayer: no, don't drop X, don't even think about it | 15:53 |
| shadeslayer | wait what | 15:53 |
| shadeslayer | :D | 15:53 |
| Quintasan | and other people actually saying "Hey, Mir is actually good" | 15:53 |
| * mgraesslin has not heard anyone competent in that area saying that mer is good | 15:54 | |
| Darkwing | Yet another place where canonical just annouces something. | 15:54 |
| mgraesslin | why 9 month of inhouse development and not talking to the Wayland devs? | 15:54 |
| murthy | Quintasan: i see the practical results, ubuntu is getting popular and its the most popular desktop linux | 15:54 |
| Darkwing | Or, the community devs at all | 15:54 |
| mgraesslin | if there were design issues they could have been solved before the Wayland 1.0 release | 15:54 |
| Darkwing | DRM Canonical style. | 15:55 |
| murthy | Quintasan: also it has the support of the corporates | 15:55 |
| Darkwing | I'm going to make a parody of Gangum Style called Canonical Style | 15:55 |
| Quintasan | lel | 15:55 |
| Quintasan | murthy: Uhh, so? | 15:55 |
| smartboyhw | Who's Michel Zajac? | 15:55 |
| Quintasan | That's me | 15:55 |
| shadeslayer | Quintasan | 15:55 |
| smartboyhw | Darkwing: LOL | 15:56 |
| * smartboyhw is still missing Darkwing's vote. | 15:56 | |
| Darkwing | Vote for? | 15:56 |
| Quintasan | Darkwing: Council meeting | 15:56 |
| Quintasan | wait | 15:56 |
| smartboyhw | Darkwing, next KC meeting | 15:56 |
| JontheEchidna | "Heeeeeey X replacement! Op Op Op, Oppa Canonical Style" | 15:56 |
| Quintasan | why did I vote for that | 15:56 |
| Darkwing | where is the poll? | 15:57 |
| smartboyhw | Quintasan it is OK | 15:57 |
| Quintasan | http://doodle.com/gb9zc9hsb8vt7rbb | 15:57 |
| smartboyhw | It helps | 15:57 |
| Quintasan | mgraesslin: So, long story short -> KDE is not going to bother with this Mir magic? | 15:57 |
| murthy | Quintasan: soon popular titles of games=more popularity, support from corporates= more income, hardware support etc and its all ways to success | 15:57 |
| Quintasan | >more income | 15:57 |
| Riddell | hmm, I'm not sure community-1303-rolling-release can be covered in a 45 minute session | 15:57 |
| Quintasan | I SURE can see the income. | 15:58 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell what channel? | 15:58 |
| mgraesslin | personal opinion: get together with the other Ubuntu derivates and discuss whether it makes sense to be on top of Ubuntu or whether it's time to get on top of Debian | 15:58 |
| Quintasan | online UDS | 15:58 |
| Quintasan | lol | 15:58 |
| smartboyhw | IRC dih | 15:58 |
| mgraesslin | Quintasan: I am not going to accept any Mir specific patches as long as it's an Ubuntu only project | 15:58 |
| smartboyhw | s/dih/duh/ | 15:58 |
| kubotu | smartboyhw meant: "IRC duh" | 15:58 |
| Quintasan | I see. | 15:59 |
| mgraesslin | Quintasan: whether it becomes on option if someone else adapts it. we'll have to see | 15:59 |
| mgraesslin | but I do not see any advantage over Wayland and therefore it's not of any interest to me | 15:59 |
| mgraesslin | except that it causes us more work and more issues | 15:59 |
| Quintasan | I so can't see anyone depending on this. | 15:59 |
| skellat | mgraesslin: Just because I titled it "Consider General Contingencies for Xubuntu" doesn't mean that that discussion cannot happen tomorrow. I kept the title vague enough to ensure such discussions could start even in the UDS context :-) | 15:59 |
| mgraesslin | skellat: why are you pinging me? | 16:00 |
| Quintasan | >UDS | 16:00 |
| Quintasan | Looks like you are going to hold that online | 16:00 |
| skellat | Sorry about butting in. As to the personal opinion, there will be a time for discussing contingencies including re-basing tomorrow at the vUDS. | 16:01 |
| Darkwing | Riddell: You think we need to do something with UDS or, are we going to have a reactive UDS to figure out what we are going to do with all of the Ubuntu changes? | 16:01 |
| mgraesslin | that was just my personal opinion as an upstream dev - I'm not a Kubuntu user nor will I tell them what to do | 16:01 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell: I'm closing ballot and choosing Sunday 15:00 UTC | 16:02 |
| * skellat wanders back to the rolling release livestream | 16:02 | |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: ok, alas I'll be away canoeing then | 16:02 |
| Riddell | skellat: where's that? | 16:02 |
| mgraesslin | but the combination of UDS only online and now Mir clearly shows where Canonical wants to see the community distributions | 16:02 |
| skellat | http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21683/community-1303-rolling-release/ | 16:02 |
| skellat | Oddly enough, System76 is involved in this | 16:03 |
| Riddell | skellat: oh it moved, thanks for pointing that out | 16:04 |
| Quintasan | now this looks hillarious :D | 16:04 |
| Darkwing | Yup. This answers a lot of questions. | 16:05 |
| Riddell | Darkwing: not getting the feeling anyone wants to do UDS for kubuntu | 16:08 |
| Riddell | a meeting some point soon would be good | 16:08 |
| Quintasan | I mean the main point of UDS was we could discuss and adress some points directly instead of trying to coordinate via internet | 16:09 |
| Quintasan | Now I don't really see how you can't say we are not holding a mini UDS here everyday :P | 16:10 |
| yofel | Quintasan: sure we are in the current style | 16:10 |
| yofel | we might as well leave a mumble session running permanently just for fun and hanging out. | 16:11 |
| yofel | has the downside of people missing context | 16:11 |
| Darkwing | yofel: I love that idea... | 16:12 |
| Darkwing | We could hold voice meetings and have a general chat session | 16:12 |
| Darkwing | Is mumble running? | 16:12 |
| yofel | sure, we just need to make sure the voice recordings don't get forgotten | 16:12 |
| yofel | the server on yofel-vz.dyndns.org should still be on. I'm listening to the session though | 16:13 |
| Darkwing | so am I | 16:13 |
| yofel | yeah, still on. I don't really need that server right now so I'll just leave it as it is | 16:13 |
| smartboyhw | I can't get to it yofel... | 16:14 |
| yofel | smartboyhw: to what? | 16:15 |
| Quintasan | what is the mumble server port? | 16:16 |
| smartboyhw | Plamsmate 1.0 officially released. | 16:16 |
| yofel | whatever's the default | 16:16 |
| smartboyhw | yofel your server... | 16:16 |
| yofel | kubotu: newversion plasmate 1.0 | 16:16 |
| kubotu | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1147193 | 16:16 |
| smartboyhw | Also rc for qtwebkit | 16:17 |
| Quintasan | ARGH | 16:18 |
| Quintasan | I'm not sure how to feel about this | 16:18 |
| Quintasan | The best course of action would be to watch and see how it turns out. | 16:19 |
| Riddell | UDS> rick says institutions are wrong to use the LTS (!) | 16:19 |
| Quintasan | lol | 16:19 |
| Quintasan | xD | 16:19 |
| Riddell | use case for LTS for a couple more years | 16:19 |
| Quintasan | lel | 16:19 |
| Riddell | oh gosh | 16:19 |
| Quintasan | ABANDON THE WARSHIP | 16:19 |
| Darkwing | This is crazy | 16:20 |
| Darkwing | The mothership is going crazy | 16:20 |
| Riddell | I have no idea how to join this conversation, it's just canonical talking to system76 so far | 16:20 |
| starbuck | what happened? | 16:21 |
| yofel | they obviously do read the channel - sometimes | 16:21 |
| mgraesslin | if institutions are wrong to use LTS, then RedHat will be happy | 16:21 |
| Quintasan | starbuck: Well, Mir, and rolling release | 16:21 |
| Quintasan | starbuck: and now Rick said LTS has no use cases | 16:21 |
| starbuck | yeah, so Qt now? | 16:21 |
| Darkwing | THey are ignoring the IRC channel for the most part... | 16:21 |
| starbuck | can KDE reuse this? | 16:21 |
| Darkwing | This is what I was worried about. | 16:21 |
| starbuck | the MIR? | 16:21 |
| yofel | yeah :/ | 16:21 |
| starbuck | or still Wayland | 16:22 |
| yofel | starbuck: not without mgraesslin | 16:22 |
| mgraesslin | starbuck: no, we don't want ;-) | 16:22 |
| starbuck | haha | 16:22 |
| apachelogger | because of technical merits I reckon | 16:22 |
| starbuck | why MIR then for Ubuntu? | 16:22 |
| mgraesslin | NIH | 16:22 |
| apachelogger | like Mir vs. Wayland is using technical merits | 16:22 |
| yofel | starbuck: "supposed" to be better for touch stuff | 16:22 |
| yofel | better than wayland that is | 16:22 |
| Quintasan | >technical merits | 16:23 |
| Quintasan | lol | 16:23 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: Have you gone mad more than usual? | 16:23 |
| mgraesslin | an article by wayland devs about that: http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/ui-customization-on-wayland/ | 16:23 |
| starbuck | so Mint/Gtk-based distros etc will all switch to Mir then? Or only Unity exclusive DEs? | 16:23 |
| apachelogger | Quintasan: sarcasm | 16:23 |
| mgraesslin | only Unity | 16:23 |
| smartboyhw | Quintasan, what do you mean by no use cases? | 16:23 |
| starbuck | what about Gnome§? | 16:23 |
| starbuck | 3? | 16:23 |
| Quintasan | smartboyhw: Ask Rick | 16:23 |
| apachelogger | starbuck: canonical does not care about gnome3 ;) | 16:24 |
| Darkwing | So will X/Wayland/Other still be supported for the flavors? | 16:24 |
| apachelogger | Darkwing: if the falvors support them? | 16:24 |
| JontheEchidna | only in that we get stuff synced from debian | 16:24 |
| apachelogger | ... | 16:24 |
| JontheEchidna | (so at least canonical won't meddle) :P | 16:24 |
| starbuck | but gnome3 devs use wayland, mir, x? | 16:24 |
| Quintasan | So we'd need to move the whole effort to Debian | 16:24 |
| mgraesslin | Darkwing: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036777.html | 16:24 |
| starbuck | in future? | 16:24 |
| mgraesslin | starbuck: currently they use X and they love Ubuntu really really much, so they will use Wayland | 16:24 |
| apachelogger | unless canonical wants to create a saparate platform from the reguar linux stuff they will have to have integrated X/Wayland support to some degree | 16:25 |
| Quintasan | starbuck: I can imagine noone save for Canonical cares about using Mir | 16:25 |
| apachelogger | starbuck: gnome3 uses X/Wayland | 16:25 |
| yofel | uhm... did I just understand right that that monthly thing is supposed to equal just not updating for a month @_@ | 16:25 |
| apachelogger | GTK+3 however can use all three | 16:25 |
| apachelogger | much like Qt | 16:25 |
| mgraesslin | well GTK+3 on Ubuntu | 16:26 |
| * mgraesslin rather doubts GTK or Qt will accept a mir backend | 16:26 | |
| apachelogger | what does it matter | 16:26 |
| Riddell | mgraesslin: why? | 16:26 |
| apachelogger | because they also drive decisions on technical merit | 16:26 |
| apachelogger | ... | 16:26 |
| * apachelogger needs to stop with that | 16:26 | |
| Quintasan | We REALLY need to schedule a serious meeting when we work out our stance on every damn change they introduced | 16:27 |
| mgraesslin | Riddell: for the same reason I won't accept it in KWin - no one distribution solution upstream | 16:27 |
| mgraesslin | if downstream wants to patch: fine | 16:27 |
| ovidiu-florin | hello world :D | 16:27 |
| Quintasan | Because to me it seems they are pushing it that fast in order to confuse people so they end up accepting it by not doing anything | 16:27 |
| Riddell | mgraesslin: well, not fine for this part of downstream! | 16:27 |
| ovidiu-florin | is there any testing I (a newbie) could do? :D | 16:27 |
| apachelogger | Quintasan: it's the canonical way :P | 16:27 |
| apachelogger | <3 rolling | 16:28 |
| Riddell | ovidiu-florin: yes, 4.10.1 please :) | 16:28 |
| Riddell | ovidiu-florin: you on raring? | 16:28 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: That's even more reason for us to work out a clear response to every change | 16:29 |
| Quintasan | I'm REALLY against even attempting to bother with Mir | 16:29 |
| Quintasan | and I'd shift all effort to debian | 16:29 |
| ovidiu-florin | Riddell: no, I'm on 12.04 | 16:30 |
| ovidiu-florin | But I can Get A VM up and running | 16:31 |
| yofel | 12.04 is still building, will need testing in a bit | 16:31 |
| apachelogger | Quintasan: why is that? | 16:31 |
| ovidiu-florin | can 4.10.1 be tested in 12.04? | 16:31 |
| yofel | ovidiu-florin: not yet: http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_precise.html | 16:32 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: As I said, I find Mir a waste of time and money and time | 16:32 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: If they leave us without support for X/Wayland which the rest of the Open Source comunnity will probably adapt | 16:33 |
| Quintasan | and as the ml said, they will just sync it from Debian so we'd rather work on stuff in Debian and then just sync it | 16:33 |
| apachelogger | as I said earlier | 16:33 |
| apachelogger | unless Canonical wan'ts to cut all ties to the rest of the world they will have to have integrated X and/or Wayland support in Mir | 16:34 |
| apachelogger | just like weston/wayland has support for X | 16:34 |
| mgraesslin | apachelogger: it's different | 16:34 |
| mgraesslin | weston has support for X to run legacy apps | 16:34 |
| mgraesslin | Mir will do the same | 16:34 |
| yofel | Riddell: did you get what he just said? | 16:34 |
| apachelogger | how's it different then? | 16:35 |
| apachelogger | that's what I said :P | 16:35 |
| mgraesslin | but it doesn't mean that the underlying stack will support running a real X or a real Wayland | 16:35 |
| apachelogger | who cares about real? | 16:35 |
| mgraesslin | how do you want to run Wayland if the stack just doesn't support it | 16:35 |
| Quintasan | yofel: I did not if you ask me | 16:35 |
| Quintasan | xD | 16:35 |
| mgraesslin | apachelogger: I hope you care | 16:35 |
| yofel | :/ | 16:35 |
| mgraesslin | because that's what you want to do: provide a Wayland based desktop environment | 16:35 |
| Riddell | yofel: "it'll cost us money" | 16:36 |
| apachelogger | mgraesslin: what I care about is facts | 16:36 |
| apachelogger | we do not know in which capacity Mir will support Wayland/X | 16:36 |
| Quintasan | What I actually care about is to release a sane distro | 16:36 |
| mgraesslin | apachelogger: right, at the moment that is unknown | 16:36 |
| apachelogger | we know that it will have to support apps using either of those in some capacity though | 16:36 |
| yofel | fun | 16:36 |
| mgraesslin | but it's canonical we are dealing with so prepare for the worst | 16:36 |
| apachelogger | also we do not know whether Mir perhaps would even become better than Wayland | 16:37 |
| Quintasan | lol | 16:37 |
| Quintasan | apachelogger: Unity > KDE -> Discuss. | 16:37 |
| apachelogger | you are playing on the very same bull shit plane as canonical there | 16:37 |
| apachelogger | in the mir spec it goes how wayland's input is crap because it's like X' and therefore is *likely* to exhibit the same problems | 16:37 |
| apachelogger | that's not a fact | 16:37 |
| mgraesslin | sorry, I just think that I have more competence in judging a windowing system than people at canonical | 16:38 |
| murthy | yofel: i made changes to debian folder like creating postinst and postrm scripts, i need to test build, i need to use the ninjas ppa and so i added the ppa to my pbuilder sources.list Now i am trying to install apt-transport-https package and it fails to fetch. Seems access is denied. what should i do? | 16:38 |
| apachelogger | in fact, the very fact that they use this as fact suggests that no one ever actually evaluated the situation to a degree that they can honest to god say wayland's input handling is crap | 16:38 |
| apachelogger | mgraesslin: fair enough | 16:38 |
| mgraesslin | given what they wrote I have zero trust in mir ever becoming better than Wayland | 16:38 |
| yofel | greeeeat.... "release 13.04 if you want, but it won't get any security support, so if you need updates use post-raring" | 16:39 |
| apachelogger | I just find it hugely shitty to dismiss stuff simply because you assume it to become crap | 16:39 |
| Quintasan | but it will be lol | 16:39 |
| apachelogger | and that appleis to your view of mir as well as mir's view of wayland | 16:39 |
| mgraesslin | no I dismiss it, because it's a distro only solution | 16:39 |
| Quintasan | please do tell that they have resources to pull it off | 16:39 |
| Darkwing | I'm starting to get worried | 16:39 |
| yofel | murthy: disable ppa again, install apt-transport-https, enable | 16:39 |
| mgraesslin | if it becomes available in other distributions I will reconsider | 16:39 |
| Darkwing | like unity? | 16:40 |
| Quintasan | As long as they don't force us to use anything they invent I don't mind | 16:41 |
| murthy | yofel: done that , after that it says some packages cannot be downloaded because of a missing public key | 16:41 |
| Riddell | Darkwing: what about? | 16:41 |
| yofel | murthy: ignore that (or just add the key) | 16:41 |
| murthy | yofel: ok | 16:42 |
| Darkwing | if Ubuntu changes to mir. let's say in 2 years they stop with X. we could still ship it with Kubuntu via ppa but then we have to maintain it right? | 16:42 |
| Darkwing | I know its long term but.... | 16:42 |
| mgraesslin | don't worry about X, worry about Wayland | 16:43 |
| Riddell | 21:49 < RAOF> sarnold: Heh, yes. I obviously can't commit to how long we'll be supporting X, but I don't see us dropping it in the next, say, decade. | 16:43 |
| Riddell | from #ubuntu-devel last night ⇈ | 16:43 |
| Darkwing-2 | Woah. | 16:46 |
| * mgraesslin wanted to say something to Darkwing-2 - let's try whether I can remember | 16:48 | |
| Darkwing-2 | Sorry, my quassel-core server dropped... trouble-shooting | 16:49 |
| mgraesslin | ah yes concerning X | 16:49 |
| mgraesslin | with X you have two solutions - with root and rootless | 16:49 |
| mgraesslin | what for the future everybody cares about is rootless, that is XWayland, XMir | 16:49 |
| mgraesslin | support for that will be eternity | 16:49 |
| ovidiu-florin | Darkwing-2: my znc server also dropped :( | 16:50 |
| mgraesslin | I expect that at KDE we will have to support that for at least 20 years | 16:50 |
| mgraesslin | but that's not the same as running on top of X Server | 16:50 |
| Riddell | 21:48 < RAOF> The same thing will apply here - you'll ~always be able to start an X server on the system compositor, it'll run nested, and KWin won't be any the wiser. | 16:50 |
| Darkwing | back up | 16:50 |
| Riddell | also from last night ⇈ | 16:50 |
| mgraesslin | Riddell: that's nonesense, as that means we are limited as we don't get access to the system | 16:50 |
| mgraesslin | KWin wants to be the system compositor | 16:50 |
| mgraesslin | not some system underneath | 16:51 |
| mgraesslin | that would seriously handicap KWin compared to Unity on the same distribution | 16:51 |
| mgraesslin | it needs to be able to run the KDE way - however that looks like | 16:51 |
| apachelogger | what does it have to do with mir then? | 16:52 |
| mgraesslin | consider mir having changes to the kernel/driver stack making it impossible to start up KWin | 16:52 |
| apachelogger | i.e. I don't see how Kubuntu would be using Mir unless supported and reasonable | 16:52 |
| mgraesslin | as far as I understood Mir is based on Android input model | 16:52 |
| mgraesslin | KWin will be based on the "Weston" input model | 16:52 |
| mgraesslin | so if Ubuntu throws out the parts to get input you have a problem | 16:53 |
| apachelogger | wouldn't that also break X then? | 16:53 |
| mgraesslin | no, what they use is XMir, which is like XWayland | 16:54 |
| mgraesslin | in that case the nested X gets the input from Mir/Wayland | 16:54 |
| apachelogger | don't get it | 16:54 |
| apachelogger | so with kwin/wayland it'll also get it from wayland, no? | 16:54 |
| mgraesslin | with kwin/wayland XClients will get the input from KWin, just like Wayland clients | 16:55 |
| * apachelogger scratches head | 16:55 | |
| apachelogger | you know | 16:55 |
| mgraesslin | but with KWin/Wayland KWin will get input directly from the kernel | 16:55 |
| apachelogger | I should rant about all this simply because canonical makes my head explode on a weekly basis now | 16:55 |
| mgraesslin | http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html | 16:55 |
| mgraesslin | look at the architecture and replace "Wayland compositor" with KWin | 16:56 |
| mgraesslin | and in the X architecture "Compositor" with KWin | 16:56 |
| apachelogger | so they have to change evdev behavior? | 16:57 |
| yofel | so, session ended | 16:57 |
| * yofel isn't quite sure what *new* things he heard | 16:57 | |
| apachelogger | mgraesslin: to break input that is | 16:57 |
| mgraesslin | apachelogger: that's how I understand it, they will use Android input model which probably means no evdev | 16:57 |
| apachelogger | well | 16:58 |
| apachelogger | that does not mean they'll remove evdev :P | 16:58 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell yofel what was the discussion result? | 16:58 |
| Riddell | UDS> no decisions | 16:58 |
| apachelogger | I mean, then they break everything that is not using xmir anyway | 16:58 |
| Riddell | which is fine, I don't think it's the best forum for decisions | 16:58 |
| apachelogger | at which point they have rendered their platform incompatible with every flavor distro the ubuntu project has | 16:58 |
| mgraesslin | apachelogger: right, doesn't matter for Unity | 16:58 |
| apachelogger | at which point we'd all go elsewhere | 16:58 |
| apachelogger | i.e. at that point the ubuntu project is dead | 16:59 |
| apachelogger | and there is only the ubuntu desktop product remaining | 16:59 |
| * mgraesslin has the feeling that Canonical is heading that road for the last two years already | 16:59 | |
| * smartboyhw wonders if Riddell heard him | 16:59 | |
| smartboyhw | lol | 16:59 |
| apachelogger | (not that I could nto imagine this happening) | 16:59 |
| apachelogger | but it really is a none-issue | 16:59 |
| yofel | smartboyhw: he answered you | 16:59 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: heard who or what? | 16:59 |
| apachelogger | at the point where such a change gets introduced the project is dead to the free software world | 17:00 |
| yofel | smartboyhw: there wasn't really anything new | 17:00 |
| apachelogger | mgraesslin: no secret that they are trying to build a platform, think we even talked about it at some UDS ^^ | 17:00 |
| smartboyhw | Riddell me | 17:00 |
| apachelogger | the ultimate question of course is whether that platform has anything to do with Linux/is compatible with a common Linux stack | 17:01 |
| smartboyhw | bah nothing new?????? | 17:01 |
| Riddell | smartboyhw: what did you say? | 17:01 |
| Riddell | 17:01 < slangasek> Laney, Riddell: yes, I think there is a consensus to carry on with the release schedule as written for now | 17:01 |
| smartboyhw | Good | 17:02 |
| * smartboyhw wants a raring-ing ringtail | 17:02 | |
| * mgraesslin needs food | 17:03 | |
| apachelogger | Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly | 17:05 |
| apachelogger | * Recommend gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly as it seems to help with the | 17:05 |
| apachelogger | phonon-gst issues | 17:05 |
| apachelogger | lawl | 17:05 |
| * apachelogger pokes yofel | 17:05 | |
| apachelogger | nice workaround there | 17:05 |
| apachelogger | I hope you actually fixed the issue :P | 17:05 |
| yofel | no, it was muesly that requested that | 17:06 |
| apachelogger | ripping out of archive upload then | 17:06 |
| Darkwing | yofel: you get a mic to work in mumble? | 17:06 |
| apachelogger | murthy: your tomahawk branch needs merging with 0.6.0 it seems | 17:06 |
| apachelogger | also you should add a changelog entry I reckon | 17:06 |
| yofel | Darkwing: this is my work notebook, and I just noticed that the voice level is misconfigured | 17:06 |
| apachelogger | * Build with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release | 17:07 |
| apachelogger | yofel: why? | 17:07 |
| yofel | yet another thing I would need to read #tomahawk backlog for | 17:07 |
| apachelogger | and how do we get dbg symbols with a rlease build Oo | 17:08 |
| Quintasan | uhhh | 17:08 |
| apachelogger | yofel: plz be writing changelogs concerning why not what :P | 17:08 |
| Quintasan | we can't? | 17:08 |
| smartboyhw | lol | 17:08 |
| apachelogger | Quintasan: unless tomahawk's cmake is le broken in some weird way :P | 17:08 |
| yofel | well, there are some symbols *there* | 17:09 |
| Quintasan | at least it is not qmake | 17:09 |
| yofel | which is weird indeed | 17:09 |
| apachelogger | in RELEASE mode there should be no debug symbols | 17:09 |
| apachelogger | relwithdebinfo would build with release optimization but still create debug symbols (default I think) | 17:10 |
| yofel | Quintasan: hop onto mumble if you're already there | 17:12 |
| yofel | apachelogger: exactly | 17:12 |
| apachelogger | hm? | 17:13 |
| apachelogger | ah | 17:13 |
| apachelogger | -DBUILD_RELEASE | 17:13 |
| apachelogger | wondering what that flag does | 17:13 |
| apachelogger | murthy: debian/copyright is missing a newline at the end of file | 17:14 |
| apachelogger | murthy: please drop Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly | 17:14 |
| apachelogger | murthy: please drop -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release (see if that breaks anything) | 17:14 |
| apachelogger | murthy: please add changelog entry and change maintainer to kubuntu devel or ubuntu devel (see any other package with an ubuntuX version) | 17:15 |
| apachelogger | otherwise good | 17:15 |
| apachelogger | sheytan: plymouth? | 17:16 |
| apachelogger | sheytan: about-kubuntu? | 17:16 |
| murthy | apachelogger: ok | 17:16 |
| === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: "Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | Raring Alpha 2 Released | Packaging TODO: http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-ninjas http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html | Upgrade QA : http://kubuntu-qa.dyndns.org/ | https://trello.com/kubuntu | Meeting Mon 15UTC | ||
| murthy | apachelogger: give the target branch for merge | 17:17 |
| apachelogger | there is no target | 17:17 |
| apachelogger | murthy: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/tomhawk | 17:17 |
| murthy | apachelogger: ok | 17:17 |
| Darkwing | I'm the only one running for reelection? | 17:18 |
| apachelogger | my inbox! | 17:18 |
| yofel | 0 [2011-09-17 08:30] <muesli> you need to run cmake with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DBUILD_RELEASE=ON | 17:18 |
| yofel | 1 [2011-09-17 08:31] <awainzin> oh, he's debug building, and getting assert abortion? | 17:18 |
| apachelogger | WAAAAH | 17:18 |
| apachelogger | Darkwing: yes | 17:18 |
| apachelogger | AH | 17:18 |
| apachelogger | murthy: drop -DBUILD_RELEASE=ON too please | 17:19 |
| murthy | apachelogger: ok | 17:19 |
| apachelogger | yofel: makes sense for ppa I guess | 17:19 |
| apachelogger | bug 1131636 <- lol | 17:19 |
| ubottu | bug 1131636 in qtwebkit-source (Ubuntu) "After QtWebkit update Skype is not launching" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1131636 | 17:19 |
| apachelogger | it's like every other qt update breaks that piece of unicorn sparkles | 17:20 |
| yofel | apachelogger: this is all I have, feel free to dig around: http://yofel.dyndns.org/ext/tomahawk-2013-03-05.txt | 17:20 |
| smartboyhw | apachelogger isn't that Sunday? | 17:22 |
| yofel | 0 [2011-12-07 14:18] <muesli> yofel: if you find the time, please do a new 0.3.3 package :-) please add gstreamer's ugly plugins to our deps. they seem to fix most of the gstreamer weirdness we're ex periencing | 17:22 |
| yofel | probably we can drop that | 17:22 |
| apachelogger | bug 1144187 | 17:23 |
| ubottu | bug 1144187 in lightdm-kde (Ubuntu) "lightdm (kde greeter) broken design because of plasma changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1144187 | 17:23 |
| apachelogger | ?:O ? :O ? Oo ? :S ? :@ ? :( | 17:23 |
| yofel | ^^ | 17:24 |
| smartboyhw | yofel please change the chan topic.. | 17:27 |
| smartboyhw | Monday -> Sunday | 17:27 |
| === yofel changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: "Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | Raring Alpha 2 Released | Packaging TODO: http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-ninjas http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html | Upgrade QA : http://kubuntu-qa.dyndns.org/ | https://trello.com/kubuntu | Meeting Sun 15UTC | ||
| yofel | also fine, turns out I don't I have time on saturday after all | 17:30 |
| Darkwing | I can't get filters working in KMail 4.8.5 | 17:36 |
| ovidiu-florin | Darkwing: their working in 4.10 | 17:40 |
| Darkwing | I'll need to figure out getting KDE updated in the LTS then. | 17:41 |
| murthy | yofel: is it ok if i do the 4.10.1 lintian correction works tomorrow morning? | 17:48 |
| BluesKaj | you guys put 4.10.1 inj th43 backports for testing ? | 17:50 |
| BluesKaj | in the | 17:50 |
| BluesKaj | making alot of typos with this splint on my wrist | 17:50 |
| murthy | BluesKaj: hi | 17:51 |
| BluesKaj | hi murthy | 17:53 |
| BluesKaj | is that 4.10.1 upgrade in the 13.04 backports? I don't see it | 18:02 |
| murthy | apachelogger: I am getting buid dep issues, shall i just commit the changes that you recommended or should i try solve it . In case of me solving, can i do it tomorrow morning? | 18:05 |
| apachelogger | resolve | 18:05 |
| apachelogger | we still have 2 days or so ^^ | 18:06 |
| murthy | apachelogger: ok | 18:07 |
| murthy | apachelogger: what about the 4.10.1 lintian corrections, can that be done tomorrow? | 18:07 |
| apachelogger | not workign on .1 | 18:07 |
| apachelogger | yofel: ^ | 18:07 |
| murthy | Riddell: can the 4.10.1 lintian corrections work be done tomorrow ? | 18:12 |
| yofel | none of those are release critical so they don't have to be done fast | 18:13 |
| yofel | worst case we can fix them for 4.10.2 | 18:14 |
| murthy | yofel: in that case can i go to bed? | 18:15 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: do you have push access to ubiquity? | 18:16 |
| apachelogger | nvm | 18:17 |
| yofel | murthy: go ahead | 18:19 |
| yofel | and good night :) | 18:19 |
| murthy | yofel: good night | 18:19 |
| === murthy is now known as murthy_ | ||
| apachelogger | yofel: do we have a pykde fix wrt py2 vs. py3 btw? | 18:20 |
| yofel | apachelogger: I have a fix for py2 | 18:27 |
| yofel | JontheEchidna: Scott said you had some py3 kcm lying around, where is that? | 18:27 |
| JontheEchidna | sec | 18:27 |
| JontheEchidna | yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+junk/kde-config-drivers | 18:28 |
| yofel | thansk | 18:28 |
| yofel | *thanks | 18:28 |
| JontheEchidna | yofel: sudo make install; kbuildsycoca4; kcmshell4 kde-config-drivers | 18:28 |
| JontheEchidna | you may have to fiddle with the X-KDE-Library key/value pair in kde-config-drivers.desktop | 18:29 |
| JontheEchidna | I'll be afk for ~15 minutes, bbiab | 18:30 |
| apachelogger | raring looks really really raw :S | 18:31 |
| apachelogger | sheytan: ! | 18:31 |
| lordievader | Good evening | 18:40 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: yes I can commit to ubiquity | 18:49 |
| Riddell | murthy_: it can be done any time | 18:49 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: you already fixed the kwin compisiting though :) | 18:49 |
| apachelogger | yay Riddell :) | 18:49 |
| yofel | ok, JontheEchidna's kcm says hello world and shows an empty window. | 19:02 |
| yofel | works I guess | 19:02 |
| JontheEchidna | yup | 19:02 |
| JontheEchidna | that's all I could get done, since the plugin loading was broken | 19:02 |
| yofel | kpython3pluginfactory needs to be kpythonpluginfactory | 19:03 |
| JontheEchidna | ok | 19:03 |
| JontheEchidna | cool | 19:04 |
| Guest88209 | Plastmate 1.0 is out. Will this be packaged for Kubuntu backports? | 19:04 |
| apachelogger | yofel: huh? | 19:05 |
| yofel | yes, as soon as someone gets to it (bug 1147193) | 19:05 |
| ubottu | bug 1147193 in plasmate (Ubuntu) "Please update plasmate to 1.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1147193 | 19:05 |
| apachelogger | yofel: how does kpythonpluginfactory work with py3vspy2? Oo | 19:05 |
| yofel | apachelogger: python3 has that stupid py3 abi tag, seems like looks for that when loading the SO | 19:06 |
| Guest88209 | cool | 19:06 |
| apachelogger | Oo | 19:06 |
| apachelogger | spooky | 19:06 |
| apachelogger | actualy | 19:06 |
| apachelogger | weird | 19:06 |
| apachelogger | yofel: how do they not conflict then? | 19:06 |
| yofel | py2 is kpythonpluginfactory.so, py3 is kpythonpluginfactory.cpython-33m.so | 19:07 |
| apachelogger | lawl | 19:07 |
| apachelogger | fair enough | 19:08 |
| yofel | hm... | 19:15 |
| yofel | apachelogger: actually not | 19:18 |
| yofel | still broken -.- | 19:18 |
| yofel | the kcm simply didn't use anything python3 specific, that's why it worked | 19:18 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: you don't track libqapt on bugs.kde? | 19:50 |
| apachelogger | yofel: I was wondering... :P | 19:50 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: I do, but for some reason the kde sysadmins made me put it in the muon product | 19:50 |
| apachelogger | how would the pluginloader know which version to use | 19:51 |
| apachelogger | ah | 19:51 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: thx | 19:51 |
| yofel | apachelogger: on the positive side: now python3 is broken. which should be the more acceptable state for raring at least | 19:51 |
| apachelogger | might as well not have it when it is broken anyway :P | 19:52 |
| yofel | well, python3-kde4 itself works | 19:52 |
| yofel | just kpythonpluginfactory not | 19:53 |
| apachelogger | right | 19:53 |
| apachelogger | poor plasma | 19:53 |
| yofel | I'll care about that the moment I see a python3 plasma widget | 19:53 |
| apachelogger | lawl | 19:54 |
| yofel | I'll try to fix this anyway though | 19:54 |
| apachelogger | and then we have to do massive SRUs :P | 19:54 |
| yofel | but no idea how and no idea till when | 19:54 |
| apachelogger | as I said... that is very much an upstream issue that needs to be addressed upstream | 19:54 |
| yofel | yeah. Maybe I'll send them an angry mail | 19:55 |
| yofel | on second though, not too angry | 19:55 |
| yofel | *thought | 19:55 |
| soee | good evening | 20:33 |
| soee | Riddell, can i install 4.10.1 to test it ? | 20:36 |
| soee | shadeslayer, | 20:41 |
| soee | yofel, ? :) | 20:45 |
| Riddell | soee: yo | 21:02 |
| Riddell | soee: what release? | 21:02 |
| soee | Riddell, rarring | 21:02 |
| Riddell | soee: groovy, go forth and test | 21:03 |
| apachelogger | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/05/plasma-desktopmu2213.png | 21:03 |
| apachelogger | hello akonadi | 21:04 |
| Riddell | up and down up and down, looks like a chart of my energy levels :) | 21:05 |
| apachelogger | well, it is a curious thing because a) each spike represents a folder that is synced and the height apparently relates to how much mails are in that folder | 21:10 |
| apachelogger | also the highest spike hit my artifical bandwith limit | 21:12 |
| soee | :< transfer is soooo slooow | 21:14 |
| soee | reeboot | 21:38 |
| yofel | raring and quantal work fine for me | 21:42 |
| Riddell | https://plus.google.com/115130660395556787952/posts/5eNxFFXCCt4 "How technology decisions are made at Canonical." | 22:05 |
| Riddell | hmm, soee disappeared | 22:06 |
| Riddell | skaet: looks like I saved raring | 22:06 |
| skaet | Riddell, well done! | 22:07 |
| Riddell | skaet: how will no releases affect linaro? | 22:08 |
| * skaet is in HK at Connect this week, and is seriously grumpy about the timing of the virtual sessions | 22:08 | |
| Riddell | skaet: but you had half a week's notice! that's plenty time! </sarcasm> | 22:09 |
| Riddell | actually I'm being unfair it was a full week | 22:09 |
| skaet | Riddell, trying to assess that here right now in conversations with folk here at Connec | 22:09 |
| skaet | issue is they knew Connect was happening, why didn't they push it out a week so that the ARM community folks who care about Ubuntu could participate? | 22:11 |
| skaet | a lot of the areas evolving - phones, tablet, dense arm based servers are arm based, and alot of those folk are participating at VERY full week here. | 22:13 |
| skaet | hardware manufacturers have different requirements than the traditional desktop market, and I think they should be participating in the discussion of release cadence if we're trying to move the project to be more friendly to those targets. | 22:25 |
| apachelogger | everything is expected to move so fast :( | 22:30 |
| apachelogger | change makes me dizzy | 22:30 |
| apachelogger | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/06/plasma-desktopae2213.png | 23:19 |
| yofel | your system's alive. Isn't that good... | 23:20 |
| apachelogger | so silly | 23:21 |
| yofel | !testers | 4.10.1 finished building on precise if someone has the time to test it | 23:21 |
| ubottu | 4.10.1 finished building on precise if someone has the time to test it: Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, smartboyhw, Quintasan, lordievader for information. | 23:21 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Not much. | 23:34 |
| Riddell | ScottK: what's that in answer to? | 23:34 |
| ScottK | Would I kill you if you uploaded Qscintilla2 without the symbols file. | 23:35 |
| Riddell | ok, I can live with not much, I've already lived through a bit of being killed already | 23:36 |
| ScottK | skellat: Unsaid in the public discussions, but I suspect they plan to make OEM specific private LP derivatives of rolling for different manufacturers. | 23:37 |
| ScottK | skellat: Nevermind | 23:37 |
| ScottK | That was meant for skaet. | 23:37 |
| ScottK | Bah. | 23:37 |
| * Riddell uploads 4.10.1 to raring | 23:43 | |
| Riddell | http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/05/1304-go-ahead | 23:47 |
| jessie | So what does Mir mean for Kubuntu? | 23:52 |
| apachelogger | nothing much right now | 23:52 |
| jessie | apachelogger: And in a year? | 23:53 |
| apachelogger | Riddell, yofel, ScottK, shadeslayer: feedback on trello? | 23:53 |
| Riddell | just have to hope it does get in the way | 23:53 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: I'm liking it so far | 23:53 |
| Riddell | not explored it fully I suspect | 23:53 |
| apachelogger | mostly straight forward anyway | 23:54 |
| apachelogger | I'll drop a mail to the list so that everyone is aware of us using it, suppose we should evaluate whether to continue using it after release | 23:54 |
| Riddell | yep, thanks | 23:54 |
| apachelogger | I think featurewise it fits our workflows pretty well, particularly since it does not really impose a way you have to use it | 23:55 |
| apachelogger | wendar: FWIW 'monthly snapshot' does sound more agile ;) | 23:58 |
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