[01:28] <shadeslayer> zomg
[01:28] <shadeslayer> \o.
[01:28] <shadeslayer> \o/
[01:28] <shadeslayer> \o/
[01:28] <shadeslayer> I have hybrid graphics
[01:28] <shadeslayer> this is awesome
[01:28] <shadeslayer> except I do not know how to switch to igd
[01:30] <shadeslayer> or well
[01:30] <shadeslayer> the GPU hangs when switching
[02:04] <shadeslayer> btw anyone have recommendations on checking how good this radeon driver is in terms of 3D stuff
[03:00] <murthy> hello everyone
[03:01] <murthy> apachelogger: are you there?
[03:10] <murthy> apachelogger: merge this https://code.launchpad.net/~murthy/tomahawk/tomahawk-ubuntu
[06:05] <highvoltage> ScottK: I wish I had your levels of optimism
[10:04] <esing> Hello
[10:04] <esing> What is the google search syntax for krunner in kubuntu? 
[10:07] <Riddell> esing: I think you have to turn that on
[10:09] <Riddell> gg:foo works
[10:10] <jussi> bah, seems #kde is dead :(
[10:10] <esing> Riddell, Do you use firefox and have the module web shortcuts checked in krunners options?
[10:10] <Riddell> no I use rekonq, yes I have the module web shortcuts ticked in krunners options
[10:11] <tsimpson> ggk::<term>, you can see a list from the ? icon in krunner
[10:11] <tsimpson> erm, only one :, not two
[10:12] <yofel> now even I'm confused, why ggk not gg?
[10:12] <yofel> (ggk works)
[10:13] <tsimpson> I don't know... the same reason it's ggg for google groups and ggn for google news
[10:14] <Riddell> ggk is google kubuntu
[10:14] <Riddell> Query=http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=ks&q=\\{@}
[10:14] <Riddell> incase you want google's money to go to canonical
[10:14] <Riddell> I think that can be removed
[10:15] <esing> The ? icon lists me gg:q , yet it`s not opening google
[10:15] <tsimpson> gg:q does nothing for me
[10:17] <jussi> anyone know how to "reset" kwallet? 
[10:17] <jussi> its completely borked for me :/
[10:19] <valorie> maybe there are relevant files in ~/.kde ?
[10:19] <tsimpson> open the manager and delete the wallet, I'd guess
[10:19] <valorie> haven't tried that with wallet though
[10:20] <jussi> tsimpson: tried that, worked in the poast, no dice anymore
[10:20] <jussi> I have a nice persistent password dialog...
[10:22] <tsimpson> I suppose if all else fails, (re)move ~/.kde/share/config/kwalletrc and ~/.kde/share/apps/kwallet/wallet.kwl
[10:22] <tsimpson> though it's probably best to do that while KDE isn't running
[10:24] <yofel> wgrant: btw. is there any useful information I could provide for debugging build failures without buildlog? like https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas/+archive/ppa/+build/4344530
[10:26] <wgrant> yofel: That depwaited
[10:26] <wgrant> (several times)
[10:26] <wgrant> Not sure why it says failed
[10:36] <Mamarok> folks, you might check your lines in http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-sc-4.10, it says "add-apt-repository", that should be "apt-add-repository", no?
[10:37] <Riddell> Mamarok: mm yes
[10:37] <tsimpson> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Oct  2 20:14 /usr/bin/apt-add-repository -> add-apt-repository
[10:37] <Mamarok> and then I am astonished if people tell me that the backports don't work :)
[10:38] <Riddell> tsimpson: interesting!
[10:38] <Riddell> Mamarok: well "fixed" anyway
[10:38] <Mamarok> thanks
[10:39] <Mamarok> one user tells me it also works with add-apt-repository, though
[10:39] <Mamarok> tsimpson: thanks :)
[10:39] <Riddell> yes, it's the same thing as tsimpson says
[11:05] <esing> Riddell, It works now for me too. I had to install konqueror and then activate gg: ggi: etc in konqueror's options "web shortcuts"; if you set firefox for your default webbrowser it will then also work for firefx
[11:17] <Riddell> esing: yeah it won't work if those are deselected.  curious that they should be though
[11:17] <Riddell> ug this compile fail on linking to pthreads is a pain
[11:32] <Riddell> I think I'll give up on qtwebkit on powerpc
[11:33] <Riddell> ScottK: can you remember how to bypass the -proposed checks?
[11:44] <Riddell> ah it's that pesky qscintilla upload in proposed which is failing compiles
[11:46] <yofel> those are raring-only though, as in quantal everything built fine
[11:47] <yofel> well, kdenetwork i386 is still building
[11:47] <Riddell> yes
[11:47] <yofel> I'll do the precise upload later
[11:47] <Riddell> murthy_: fancy fixing some of the lintian issues in http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html ?
[12:13] <yofel> Riddell: can it be that your default dput target is still ubuntu? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/kstars/4:4.10.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu13.04~ppa2
[12:14] <Riddell> wibble
[12:18] <Riddell> qscintilla symbols are voodoo
[12:18] <Riddell> pkgkde-symbolshelper does not seem to like them
[12:48] <shadeslayer> Riddell: is there a generic armhf image for plasma-active?
[12:48] <shadeslayer> I remember you posting a link
[12:48] <shadeslayer> this? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-active/daily-preinstalled/current/
[12:49] <shadeslayer> that doesn't have the standard armhf zip :(
[12:56] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[13:08] <smartboyhw> Hiyas. Not going to be doing any packagimg for today + next two days, need to revise for tests.
[13:22] <yofel> smartboyhw: one thing about calligra yesterday: 
[13:22] <yofel> If you upload to the backports PPA, please either make yourself a staging PPA where you build it and copy the binaries over, or upload with urgency >= medium so there isn't much of a delay between architecture builds.
[13:22] <yofel> Apt isn't very intelligent when it sees archive skew.
[13:22] <smartboyhw> yofel: OK...
[13:22]  * yofel make a note to write a policy for that somewhere
[13:22] <smartboyhw> yofel: Are you running for KC?
[13:24] <yofel> I intend to, but need to fill out the wiki etc. first
[13:25] <smartboyhw> yofel :-(
[13:25] <smartboyhw> s/:-(/:-D/
[13:26] <smartboyhw> Kubotu doesn't work!!!!!!
[13:27] <smartboyhw> yofel ignore the sad face. I am having an happy face
[13:27] <smartboyhw> \o/
[13:29] <yofel> heh
[13:29] <smartboyhw> Typing mistakes..............
[13:29]  * smartboyhw wonders will anyone write him testimonials...
[13:31]  * shadeslayer has a excuse not to write testimonials for the next couple of days
[13:32]  * smartboyhw asks shadeslayer why...
[13:32] <shadeslayer> or to not write anything at all
[13:32] <shadeslayer> smartboyhw: need get my spects made :P
[13:33] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: grrrrrrr
[13:33] <shadeslayer> all text is quite blurry at the moment
[13:33] <smartboyhw> Riddell, yofel: how about you guys?
[13:34]  * yofel wonders why smartboyhw needs testimonials, he has plenty. Yofel has 0
[13:35] <smartboyhw> yofel: That's for main Ubuntu membership...... I don't actually have any Kubuntu member testimonials ....
[13:36] <shadeslayer> we rarely do testimonials
[13:37] <shadeslayer> I had just one from ikonia when I applied
[13:37] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer: New world then:-P (for me)
[13:37] <shadeslayer> :)
[13:48] <murthy> hello everyone
[13:48] <smartboyhw> Hello murthy
[13:48] <murthy> smartboyhw: hi
[13:49] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[13:50] <murthy> Riddell: the packages which are marked orange in here ? http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html 
[13:50] <smartboyhw> murthy: lintian warnings
[13:50] <murthy> Riddell: i guess the red ones?
[13:50] <smartboyhw> mm
[13:50] <smartboyhw> !
[13:51] <murthy> smartboyhw: ya, but which package?
[13:51] <smartboyhw> Good my smartphone keyboard went haywire
[13:51] <yofel> murthy: yeah, ask if you don't know what you need to do (btw. google usually gives the right docs when you search for the tag)
[13:51] <smartboyhw> murthy: Look at the list!!!!!!!!
[13:51] <murthy> yofel: sure
[13:51] <yofel> there's probably some more warnings that should be whitelisted too
[13:51] <yofel> murthy: start with the ones that start with E:
[13:51] <murthy> smartboyhw: all the packages listed there?
[13:52] <yofel> those are errors. And you only need to look at the warnings in bold
[13:52] <smartboyhw> murthy: The orange ones first
[13:52] <murthy> yofel: i will take care of the lintian warning and i am eager
[13:52] <murthy> smartboyhw: give the color legend
[13:53] <Riddell> murthy: the yellow ones
[13:53] <yofel> there is no legend. RED: bad, ORANGE: not so bad, but still bad, GREEN: ok
[13:53] <murthy> smartboyhw: red=? orange=? green=?
[13:53] <murthy> yofel: ok
[13:53] <Riddell> s/yellow/orange/ then :)
[13:53] <kubotu> Riddell meant: "murthy: the orange ones"
[13:53] <smartboyhw> yofel: Clearly even the new qscintilla2-9ubuntu1 in the ninjas PPA doesn't build.....
[13:54] <murthy> Riddell: ok
[13:54]  * yofel hasn't look at that monstrousity
[13:54] <smartboyhw> Riddell: Have you voted for a time of KC meeting?
[13:54] <Riddell> smartboyhw: the symbols files in that don't work, pkgkde-symbols helper doesn't seem to be enough magic for it
[13:54] <Riddell> smartboyhw: no, poke me again and I'll do it
[13:54] <yofel> actually, RED == something is actually *broken*, orange means there's stuff to fix, but the package would still work
[13:55] <murthy> where can i get the source tars?
[13:55] <yofel> murthy: 2 ways
[13:55] <yofel> either pull-ninjas-source from kubuntu-dev-tools
[13:55] <yofel> OR
[13:55] <smartboyhw> Riddell, I kn
[13:56] <yofel> you add the deb-src line for the PPA to your sources, then bzr builddeb can fetch the tar by itself
[13:56] <smartboyhw> s/kn/now officially poke you:-P/
[13:56] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Riddell, I now officially poke you:-P"
[13:56] <yofel> bzr-buildpackage-ppa from the kubuntu-automation branch is useful too here
[13:57] <smartboyhw> It's UDS starting time...........
[13:57]  * Riddell joins #ubuntu-uds-plenary
[13:58] <murthy> yofel: every orange marked package is a i386 build, do they have something in common?
[13:58] <yofel> murthy: lintian doesn't run on amd64, that's all
[13:59] <murthy> yofel: what?
[13:59] <murthy> yofel: mine is amd64 install
[13:59] <yofel> the lintian warning generation is part of the architecture-independent build part, which is only run on the i386 builders
[13:59] <yofel> no point in generating the warnings twice
[14:00]  * yofel makes his way home, will join for the sessions later
[14:01] <smartboyhw> ok
[14:01] <murthy> yofel: see you later 
[14:02] <Riddell> UDS plenary live
[14:03] <smartboyhw> Riddell, hmm I clearly can't close the doodle poll....
[14:03] <Riddell> smartboyhw: cos of no good slot?
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Riddell: got my message?
[14:05] <Riddell> smartboyhw: mm no?
[14:05] <Riddell> where is that?
[14:06] <smartboyhw> Riddell I can't close the Doodle poll even 4 KC members have voted....
[14:06]  * smartboyhw makes ping of jussi and Darkwing
[14:07] <Riddell> smartboyhw: the kubuntu council is deliberatly large in the expectation that not everyone will be able to take part all the time
[14:07] <Riddell> smartboyhw: so it's fine to declaire it done even if not all KC people can be part of it
[14:07] <murthy> Riddell: are you aware of the new pbuilder hook B09lintian
[14:07] <Riddell> murthy: no, do tell
[14:08] <Riddell> I don't use pbuilder much
[14:08] <smartboyhw> Riddell no the trouble is that there would be not enough quorum for voting me as member....
[14:08] <smartboyhw>  .......
[14:08] <murthy> Riddell:  the lintian check after building the source shows warnings that are not shown by lintian during debuild -S
[14:08] <smartboyhw> g
[14:09] <murthy> Riddell:  example http://paste.ubuntu.com/5557229/
[14:09] <Riddell> smartboyhw: hmm yes, keep pinging Darkwing and jussi then I guess, or add more times
[14:10] <Mamarok> smartboyhw: you seem to be a tad impatient, you only set up that doodle yesterday...
[14:10] <murthy> Riddell: so do you want me to look at the warnings during the debuild -S or the one that the new hook shows
[14:10] <Riddell> murthy: that's the same warning but with a description isn't it?
[14:10] <murthy> Riddell: no
[14:10] <Mamarok> smartboyhw: maybe avoid doing this on such a short notice?
[14:10] <smartboyhw> Mamarok: I am not.... I just want to settle a precise date
[14:11] <murthy> Riddell: those warnings wont show up during the debuils -S
[14:11] <murthy> Riddell: those warnings wont show up during the debuild -S
[14:11] <Riddell> Mamarok: be fair, it's the same notice as canonical gave us of wanting to drop the release :)
[14:11] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:11] <Mamarok> well, one day and sending 3 reminders since definitely IS impatient :)
[14:11] <murthy> Riddell: ya, the logs shows the description of the errors
[14:12] <Riddell> murthy: the ones in the logs would be the first ones to go for
[14:13] <murthy> Riddell: i just did a debuild -S for kactivities and from the log i can't see any erros except for the outdated standards. If you can confirm that, i will get an idea of this and i will follow it for the rest
[14:13] <murthy> Riddell: http://paste.kde.org/688208/
[14:15] <Riddell> murthy: oh a debuild -S won't give you issues with the binary packages
[14:15] <Riddell> only a full binary build will do that
[14:15] <murthy> Riddell: in that case , i will see the warnings given after invoked by the new hook . 
[14:16] <Riddell> murthy: yep, or just look at the logs on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html
[14:16] <murthy> Riddell: so i do a correction where should i put the change
[14:16] <Riddell> many can be ignored, see lintian-ignore.json in kubuntu-automation
[14:16] <Riddell> in kactivities the only one you need to care about is intra-source-package-circular-dependency libkactivities-bin libkactivities-models1 libkactivities6
[14:16] <murthy> Riddell: ah thank you, i forgot about the build logs
[14:18] <Mamarok> Riddell: "to be fair, it's the same notice as canonical gave us of wanting to drop the release :)" <- what exactly are you refering to?
[14:18] <Riddell> Mamarok: where have you been since Thursday, canonical wants to drop non-LTS releases
[14:19] <Mamarok> ah, that
[14:19] <Mamarok> did they actually send that to kubuntu-devel? Or did they just make a press release
[14:19] <Riddell> Mamarok: discussion is on ubuntu-devel
[14:19] <Riddell> no decision yet (officially)
[14:19] <Mamarok> cause I remember having read it on G+
[14:20] <Riddell> lwn has a story
[14:20] <Mamarok> oh well, I am not in ubuntu-devel, for obvious reasons
[14:20] <Riddell> I don't usually follow it much
[14:24] <Riddell> hmm everything compiled in http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html but only because I uploaded a qscintilla which compiles against amd64 (but not i386)
[14:24] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:25] <Riddell> ScottK: I see you dropped the symbols file there before, should we do the same again?
[14:25] <Riddell> smartboyhw: if you're at a lose end lots of lintian issues on http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_quantal.html :)
[14:26] <murthy> Riddell: where can i put the change>
[14:27] <Riddell> UDS> canonical wants an SDK for ubuntu using QML, something I can support i think
[14:27] <smartboyhw> Riddell on mobile and not on computer for 3 days
[14:27] <Riddell> murthy: commit to bzr?
[14:27] <murthy> Riddell: in my custom branch and request a merge?
[14:27] <Riddell> smartboyhw: ach with fancy mobiles these days you can still do development :)
[14:27] <Riddell> murthy: just commit, do you have access to ~kubuntu-packagers?
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Riddell mine isn't
[14:28] <smartboyhw> Is murthy Kubuntu member?
[14:28] <murthy> Riddell: don't know, checking my profile
[14:29] <murthy> smartboyhw: https://launchpad.net/~murthy
[14:29] <Riddell> smartboyhw: no he's not
[14:29] <Riddell> (yet)
[14:30] <Riddell> but I don't think there's any policy against just adding people to ~kubuntu-packagers
[14:30] <Riddell> ScottK: correct me if I'm wrong there ^
[14:30] <murthy> Riddell: I am not sure it will be a good idea to add me to it now
[14:30] <smartboyhw> Riddell if then add me too... Any objections?
[14:31] <Riddell> smartboyhw: I have none
[14:31] <smartboyhw> ;-)
[14:31] <Riddell> but I could be forgetting some policy we have on that group
[14:32] <Riddell> yofel, apachelogger, shadeslayer: any memory of that?
[14:32] <smartboyhw> Riddell: trust?
[14:33] <smartboyhw> That's what they've been saying + in team descriptio.
[14:33] <smartboyhw> s/descriptio./description./
[14:33] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "That's what they've been saying + in team description."
[14:33] <Riddell> yep
[14:34] <soee> hi guys, only 3 packages left to buld and 4.10.1 is ready ?
[14:34] <shadeslayer> Riddell: not that I recall
[14:34] <Riddell> smartboyhw, murthy: so poke me into merging packaging changes and I'll get fed up and add you
[14:34] <Riddell> soee: for raring? aren't they all done?
[14:34] <murthy> ha ha ha
[14:34] <soee> Riddell, looking at http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_raring.html 
[14:35] <smartboyhw> ok
[14:35] <Riddell> ah yes still to do the ones for qscintilla
[14:35] <smartboyhw> yep
[14:37] <Riddell> soee: but should be good to test now if you're up to it
[14:38] <soee> im on 12.10 here at work, i can test when i get home ~ 21:00 cet
[14:38] <soee> there i have 13.04
[14:39] <Riddell> groovy
[14:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: trust
[14:40] <apachelogger> i.e. ~kubuntu-member
[14:41]  * smartboyhw is correct
[14:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: what with membership being the established way of confirming trust
[14:48] <murthy> apachelogger: did you merge tomahawk from my branch lp:~murthy/tomahawk/tomahawk-ubuntu  ?
[14:52] <apachelogger> no
[14:53] <Riddell> yofel: 4.10.1 is on mirrors, what's needed before we upload to raring? just more testing?
[14:53] <Riddell> !testers | 4.10.1 from ninjas
[14:54]  * smartboyhw can't test
[14:54] <yofel> that should be all
[14:54] <Riddell> yofel: and qscintilla
[14:55] <Riddell> ScottK: how much would you kill me if I uploaded a qscintilla without a .symbols file?
[14:55] <yofel> ah right
[14:56] <smartboyhw> :-D
[14:57]  * Riddell joins appdev-1303-ubuntu-sdk-roadmap interested in what toolkit they want to use
[14:57] <Riddell> since QML doesn't have any/has loads depending on which way you look
[14:58]  * smartboyhw joins community-testing
[15:13] <smartboyhw> KDE SC 4.10.1 is our.
[15:13] <smartboyhw> s/our/out/
[15:13] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "KDE SC 4.10.1 is out."
[15:15] <Riddell> I'm running the archive upload script
[15:16] <smartboyhw> good<3
[15:17] <Riddell> but it keeps breaking due to launchpad fail :(
[15:22] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:28] <yofel> yeah, I had to add a shitload of exception handling to the status script so you can actually see something -.-
[15:28] <yofel> even the backports needed manual fixing because pull-ppa-source can't handle launchpad errors
[15:29] <smartboyhw> Stupid Launchpad
[15:30] <Riddell> qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin is interesting
[15:31] <Riddell> cos the world needs yet another QML toolkit :)
[15:37] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:38] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: I'm flashing the tablet with ubuntu touch, will report tomorrow how well it works with PA
[15:41] <Quintasan> >Mir
[15:41] <Quintasan> >Mir
[15:41] <Quintasan> >better than Wayland
[15:41] <Quintasan> oh lol
[15:41] <Quintasan> Canonical pls
[15:42] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:42] <murthy> in terms of cross form factor ?
[15:43] <shadeslayer> well
[15:43] <Quintasan> murthy: This will NOT work
[15:43] <murthy> Quintasan: why not?
[15:44] <Quintasan> Beacuse.
[15:44] <Quintasan> Please tell me Unity is a success.
[15:44] <shadeslayer> I just hope that either kwin grows a backend for Mir or wayland stuff just works
[15:44] <shadeslayer> on touch devices
[15:44] <murthy> Quintasan: yes it is
[15:44] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: KWin will never get a backend for Mir if it is Ubuntu only
[15:44] <Quintasan> murthy: lol, there are as many people bashing it as using that
[15:44] <shadeslayer> oh look, a mgraesslin
[15:44] <Quintasan> that's not success
[15:44]  * mgraesslin doesn't accept distro specific patches
[15:44] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: plz make Wayland rock
[15:44] <Darkwing> I was pinged.
[15:44] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Darkwing yay
[15:45] <Quintasan> mgraesslin: Good, I don't want you to waste time on something that will be used by one distro
[15:45] <murthy> Quintasan: people don't like drastic changes
[15:45] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: to be honest: I don't see any future for KWin on ubuntu
[15:45] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: but wayland!
[15:45] <mgraesslin> I do not expect that Wayland will run on Ubuntu
[15:45] <Quintasan> murthy: Nor do I like people developing something that will be a waste of time
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Look at the last item on the topic and vote;-)
[15:45] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: I'm reasonably certain that we can figure it out when the time comes to switch
[15:45] <mgraesslin> I expect Canonical to make it impossible to run anything except their home brew solution on top of their stack
[15:46] <shadeslayer> well
[15:46] <shadeslayer> that would suck
[15:46] <mgraesslin> personally I don't see any other reason to go with Mir in the first place
[15:46] <Quintasan> I vote we abandon Mir and Upstart at one point
[15:46] <mgraesslin> for KDE it would be easier to just say - we don't support Ubuntu and concentrate on "the Linux stack" which is Systemd + Wayland
[15:46] <mgraesslin> it could make much things easier
[15:46] <murthy> Quintasan: I like to see people using common stuff, but ubuntu don't like the idea of not accepting their ideas upstream 
[15:47] <shadeslayer> :S
[15:47] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: that's pretty harsh imho
[15:47] <mgraesslin> I'm sick of having always to have problems with Ubuntu
[15:47] <Quintasan> That's harsh but what the hell
[15:47] <mgraesslin> since yesterday we know it well get worse
[15:48] <mgraesslin> don't even want to think about the problems it will cause with Qt having an additional backend shipped
[15:48] <Quintasan> Why should we introduce YET ANOTHER DISPLAY SERVER when there is a new one it the works and the trasition will take much time
[15:48] <mgraesslin> all crash reports from Ubuntu wwe will be able to direct to /dev/null
[15:48] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:48] <Quintasan> Same shit (excuse poort wording) with Upstart
[15:48] <Quintasan> Systemd is superior to upstart in every way I can think of and yet we are forced to work with upstart
[15:48] <Darkwing> Oh goody, I'm not the only one who was stunned by Mir
[15:48] <mgraesslin> Quintasan: one difference, Upstart was before Systemd, otherwise I agree
[15:49] <shadeslayer> well, I just hope we can figure out something
[15:49] <Darkwing> Lemme guess, they are going to abandon pulse-audio for a new Canonical system
[15:49] <Quintasan> Darkwing: Canonical can't pull it off
[15:49] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: actually, they're using a AudioTrack backend for PA
[15:49] <Quintasan> They just can't
[15:49] <Darkwing> This is insane...
[15:49]  * mgraesslin thinks they lack expertise to develop a windowing system
[15:49] <Darkwing> What are we doing for "UDS" anything with mumble?
[15:50] <shadeslayer> there was a ascii diagram somewhere in the backlog
[15:50] <Quintasan> If they have the power to make nvidia and ati make a driver for that crap then they could as well as persuade them to provide better support XD
[15:50] <shadeslayer> ^
[15:50] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: that's my main concern
[15:50]  * mgraesslin doubts NVIDIA or AMD give a sh*** about mir
[15:50] <Quintasan> Waste of time and money
[15:50] <shadeslayer> what about all the work that nVidia and AMD put into X and wayland
[15:51] <shadeslayer> oh
[15:51] <Quintasan> They don't give much crap about Linux overall so.
[15:51] <shadeslayer> mgraesslin: I was told Mir uses mesa
[15:51] <shadeslayer> same as wayland
[15:51] <Darkwing> If we are going to change from X then, why not wayland?
[15:51] <shadeslayer> what does that mean in terms of drivers?
[15:51] <mgraesslin> nothing
[15:51] <Quintasan> I somehow get the idea that Ubuntu is a sinking ship
[15:51] <shadeslayer> so same situation as of right now?
[15:52] <Riddell> Darkwing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec#Why_Not_Wayland_.2BAC8_Weston.3F
[15:52] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: yes, but the difference is Wayland - complete ecosystem modulo Ubuntu and mir == Ubuntu
[15:52] <Darkwing> mesa? With Valve and Steam coming so hard toward Ubuntu they wouldn't want true acceleration???
[15:52] <Riddell> Darkwing: (I don't understand it)
[15:52] <mgraesslin> fyi: the wiki page on Why not Wayland is mostly FUD
[15:52] <shadeslayer> :(
[15:52]  * Darkwing scratches his head
[15:52] <murthy> Quintasan: on the contrary i guess ubuntu is teaming with corporate giants and with their requirements in mind they are doing stuff and so they will succeed
[15:53] <mgraesslin> or they don't understand Wayland
[15:53] <Riddell> mgraesslin: it does read a lot like wall of text not saying much
[15:53] <shadeslayer> then it makes sense for us to switch to wayland once the stack is mature enough
[15:53] <mgraesslin> Riddell: yesterday it contained clearly wrong statements
[15:53] <shadeslayer> and drop X altoghether
[15:53] <Quintasan> murthy: You won't convince me they have even 0,5% chance of success until I see that success
[15:53] <mgraesslin> shadeslayer: no, don't drop X, don't even think about it
[15:53] <shadeslayer> wait what
[15:53] <shadeslayer> :D
[15:53] <Quintasan> and other people actually saying "Hey, Mir is actually good"
[15:54]  * mgraesslin has not heard anyone competent in that area saying that mer is good
[15:54] <Darkwing> Yet another place where canonical just annouces something.
[15:54] <mgraesslin> why 9 month of inhouse development and not talking to the Wayland devs?
[15:54] <murthy> Quintasan: i see the practical results, ubuntu is getting popular and its the most popular desktop linux 
[15:54] <Darkwing> Or, the community devs at all
[15:54] <mgraesslin> if there were design issues they could have been solved before the Wayland 1.0 release
[15:55] <Darkwing> DRM Canonical style.
[15:55] <murthy> Quintasan: also it has the support of the corporates 
[15:55] <Darkwing> I'm going to make a parody of Gangum Style called Canonical Style
[15:55] <Quintasan> lel
[15:55] <Quintasan> murthy: Uhh, so?
[15:55] <smartboyhw> Who's Michel Zajac?
[15:55] <Quintasan> That's me
[15:55] <shadeslayer> Quintasan
[15:56] <smartboyhw> Darkwing: LOL
[15:56]  * smartboyhw is still missing Darkwing's vote.
[15:56] <Darkwing> Vote for?
[15:56] <Quintasan> Darkwing: Council meeting
[15:56] <Quintasan> wait
[15:56] <smartboyhw> Darkwing, next KC meeting
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> "Heeeeeey X replacement! Op Op Op, Oppa Canonical Style"
[15:56] <Quintasan> why did I vote for that
[15:57] <Darkwing> where is the poll?
[15:57] <smartboyhw> Quintasan it is OK
[15:57] <Quintasan> http://doodle.com/gb9zc9hsb8vt7rbb
[15:57] <smartboyhw> It helps
[15:57] <Quintasan> mgraesslin: So, long story short -> KDE is not going to bother with this Mir magic?
[15:57] <murthy> Quintasan: soon popular titles of games=more popularity, support from corporates= more income, hardware  support etc and its all ways to success
[15:57] <Quintasan> >more income
[15:57] <Riddell> hmm, I'm not sure community-1303-rolling-release can be covered in a 45 minute session
[15:58] <Quintasan> I SURE can see the income.
[15:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell what channel?
[15:58] <mgraesslin> personal opinion: get together with the other Ubuntu derivates and discuss whether it makes sense to be on top of Ubuntu or whether it's time to get on top of Debian
[15:58] <Quintasan> online UDS
[15:58] <Quintasan> lol
[15:58] <smartboyhw> IRC dih
[15:58] <mgraesslin> Quintasan: I am not going to accept any Mir specific patches as long as it's an Ubuntu only project
[15:58] <smartboyhw> s/dih/duh/
[15:58] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "IRC duh"
[15:59] <Quintasan> I see.
[15:59] <mgraesslin> Quintasan: whether it becomes on option if someone else adapts it. we'll have to see
[15:59] <mgraesslin> but I do not see any advantage over Wayland and therefore it's not of any interest to me
[15:59] <mgraesslin> except that it causes us more work and more issues
[15:59] <Quintasan> I so can't see anyone depending on this.
[15:59] <skellat> mgraesslin: Just because I titled it "Consider General Contingencies for Xubuntu" doesn't mean that that discussion cannot happen tomorrow.  I kept the title vague enough to ensure such discussions could start even in the UDS context :-)
[16:00] <mgraesslin> skellat: why are you pinging me?
[16:00] <Quintasan> >UDS
[16:00] <Quintasan> Looks like you are going to hold that online
[16:01] <skellat> Sorry about butting in.  As to the personal opinion, there will be a time for discussing contingencies including re-basing tomorrow at the vUDS.
[16:01] <Darkwing> Riddell: You think we need to do something with UDS or, are we going to have a reactive UDS to figure out what we are going to do with all of the Ubuntu changes?
[16:01] <mgraesslin> that was just my personal opinion as an upstream dev - I'm not a Kubuntu user nor will I tell them what to do
[16:02] <smartboyhw> Riddell: I'm closing ballot and choosing Sunday 15:00 UTC
[16:02]  * skellat wanders back to the rolling release livestream
[16:02] <Riddell> smartboyhw: ok, alas I'll be away canoeing then
[16:02] <Riddell> skellat: where's that?
[16:02] <mgraesslin> but the combination of UDS only online and now Mir clearly shows where Canonical wants to see the community distributions
[16:02] <skellat> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21683/community-1303-rolling-release/
[16:03] <skellat> Oddly enough, System76 is involved in this
[16:04] <Riddell> skellat: oh it moved, thanks for pointing that out
[16:04] <Quintasan> now this looks hillarious :D
[16:05] <Darkwing> Yup. This answers a lot of questions.
[16:08] <Riddell> Darkwing: not getting the feeling anyone wants to do UDS for kubuntu
[16:08] <Riddell> a meeting some point soon would be good
[16:09] <Quintasan> I mean the main point of UDS was we could discuss and adress some points directly instead of trying to coordinate via internet
[16:10] <Quintasan> Now I don't really see how you can't say we are not holding a mini UDS here everyday :P
[16:10] <yofel> Quintasan: sure we are in the current style
[16:11] <yofel> we might as well leave a mumble session running permanently just for fun and hanging out.
[16:11] <yofel> has the downside of people missing context
[16:12] <Darkwing> yofel: I love that idea...
[16:12] <Darkwing> We could hold voice meetings and have a general chat session
[16:12] <Darkwing> Is mumble running?
[16:12] <yofel> sure, we just need to make sure the voice recordings don't get forgotten
[16:13] <yofel> the server on yofel-vz.dyndns.org should still be on. I'm listening to the session though
[16:13] <Darkwing> so am I
[16:13] <yofel> yeah, still on. I don't really need that server right now so I'll just leave it as it is
[16:14] <smartboyhw> I can't get to it yofel...
[16:15] <yofel> smartboyhw: to what?
[16:16] <Quintasan> what is the mumble server port?
[16:16] <smartboyhw> Plamsmate 1.0 officially released.
[16:16] <yofel> whatever's the default
[16:16] <smartboyhw> yofel your server...
[16:16] <yofel> kubotu: newversion plasmate 1.0
[16:16] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1147193
[16:17] <smartboyhw> Also rc for qtwebkit
[16:18] <Quintasan> ARGH
[16:18] <Quintasan> I'm not sure how to feel about this
[16:19] <Quintasan> The best course of action would be to watch and see how it turns out.
[16:19] <Riddell> UDS> rick says institutions are wrong to use the LTS (!)
[16:19] <Quintasan> lol
[16:19] <Quintasan> xD
[16:19] <Riddell> use case for LTS for a couple more years
[16:19] <Quintasan> lel
[16:19] <Riddell> oh gosh
[16:19] <Quintasan> ABANDON THE WARSHIP
[16:20] <Darkwing> This is crazy
[16:20] <Darkwing> The mothership is going crazy
[16:20] <Riddell> I have no idea how to join this conversation, it's just canonical talking to system76 so far
[16:21] <starbuck> what happened?
[16:21] <yofel> they obviously do read the channel - sometimes
[16:21] <mgraesslin> if institutions are wrong to use LTS, then RedHat will be happy
[16:21] <Quintasan> starbuck: Well, Mir, and rolling release
[16:21] <Quintasan> starbuck: and now Rick said LTS has no use cases
[16:21] <starbuck> yeah, so Qt now?
[16:21] <Darkwing> THey are ignoring the IRC channel for the most part...
[16:21] <starbuck> can KDE reuse this?
[16:21] <Darkwing> This is what I was worried about.
[16:21] <starbuck> the MIR?
[16:21] <yofel> yeah :/
[16:22] <starbuck> or still Wayland
[16:22] <yofel> starbuck: not without mgraesslin
[16:22] <mgraesslin> starbuck: no, we don't want ;-)
[16:22] <starbuck> haha
[16:22] <apachelogger> because of technical merits I reckon
[16:22] <starbuck> why MIR then for Ubuntu?
[16:22] <mgraesslin> NIH
[16:22] <apachelogger> like Mir vs. Wayland is using technical merits
[16:22] <yofel> starbuck: "supposed" to be better for touch stuff
[16:22] <yofel> better than wayland that is
[16:23] <Quintasan> >technical merits
[16:23] <Quintasan> lol
[16:23] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Have you gone mad more than usual?
[16:23] <mgraesslin> an article by wayland devs about that: http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/ui-customization-on-wayland/
[16:23] <starbuck> so Mint/Gtk-based distros etc will all switch to Mir then? Or only Unity exclusive DEs?
[16:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: sarcasm
[16:23] <mgraesslin> only Unity
[16:23] <smartboyhw> Quintasan, what do you mean by no use cases?
[16:23] <starbuck> what about Gnome§?
[16:23] <starbuck> 3?
[16:23] <Quintasan> smartboyhw: Ask Rick
[16:24] <apachelogger> starbuck: canonical does not care about gnome3 ;)
[16:24] <Darkwing> So will X/Wayland/Other still be supported for the flavors?
[16:24] <apachelogger> Darkwing: if the falvors support them?
[16:24] <JontheEchidna> only in that we get stuff synced from debian
[16:24] <apachelogger> ...
[16:24] <JontheEchidna> (so at least canonical won't meddle) :P
[16:24] <starbuck> but gnome3 devs use wayland, mir, x?
[16:24] <Quintasan> So we'd need to move the whole effort to Debian
[16:24] <mgraesslin> Darkwing: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036777.html
[16:24] <starbuck> in future?
[16:24] <mgraesslin> starbuck: currently they use X and they love Ubuntu really really much, so they will use Wayland
[16:25] <apachelogger> unless canonical wants to create a saparate platform from the reguar linux stuff they will have to have integrated X/Wayland support to some degree
[16:25] <Quintasan> starbuck: I can imagine noone save for Canonical cares about using Mir
[16:25] <apachelogger> starbuck: gnome3 uses X/Wayland
[16:25] <yofel> uhm... did I just understand right that that monthly thing is supposed to equal just not updating for a month @_@
[16:25] <apachelogger> GTK+3 however can use all three 
[16:25] <apachelogger> much like Qt
[16:26] <mgraesslin> well GTK+3 on Ubuntu
[16:26]  * mgraesslin rather doubts GTK or Qt will accept a mir backend
[16:26] <apachelogger> what does it matter
[16:26] <Riddell> mgraesslin: why?
[16:26] <apachelogger> because they also drive decisions on technical merit
[16:26] <apachelogger> ...
[16:26]  * apachelogger needs to stop with that
[16:27] <Quintasan> We REALLY need to schedule a serious meeting when we work out our stance on every damn change they introduced
[16:27] <mgraesslin> Riddell: for the same reason I won't accept it in KWin - no one distribution solution upstream
[16:27] <mgraesslin> if downstream wants to patch: fine
[16:27] <ovidiu-florin> hello world :D
[16:27] <Quintasan> Because to me it seems they are pushing it that fast in order to confuse people so they end up accepting it by not doing anything
[16:27] <Riddell> mgraesslin: well, not fine for this part of downstream!
[16:27] <ovidiu-florin> is there any testing I (a newbie) could do? :D
[16:27] <apachelogger> Quintasan: it's the canonical way :P
[16:28] <apachelogger> <3 rolling
[16:28] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: yes, 4.10.1 please :)
[16:28] <Riddell> ovidiu-florin: you on raring?
[16:29] <Quintasan> apachelogger: That's even more reason for us to work out a clear response to every change
[16:29] <Quintasan> I'm REALLY against even attempting to bother with Mir
[16:29] <Quintasan> and I'd shift all effort to debian
[16:30] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: no, I'm on 12.04
[16:31] <ovidiu-florin> But I can Get A VM up and running
[16:31] <yofel> 12.04 is still building, will need testing in a bit
[16:31] <apachelogger> Quintasan: why is that?
[16:31] <ovidiu-florin> can 4.10.1 be tested in 12.04?
[16:32] <yofel> ovidiu-florin: not yet: http://yofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.1_precise.html
[16:32] <Quintasan> apachelogger: As I said, I find Mir a waste of time and money and time
[16:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: If they leave us without support for X/Wayland which the rest of the Open Source comunnity will probably adapt
[16:33] <Quintasan> and as the ml said, they will just sync it from Debian so we'd rather work on stuff in Debian and then just sync it
[16:33] <apachelogger> as I said earlier
[16:34] <apachelogger> unless Canonical wan'ts to cut all ties to the rest of the world they will have to have integrated X and/or Wayland support in Mir
[16:34] <apachelogger> just like weston/wayland has support for X
[16:34] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: it's different
[16:34] <mgraesslin> weston has support for X to run legacy apps
[16:34] <mgraesslin> Mir will do the same
[16:34] <yofel> Riddell: did you get what he just said?
[16:35] <apachelogger> how's it different then?
[16:35] <apachelogger> that's what I said :P
[16:35] <mgraesslin> but it doesn't mean that the underlying stack will support running a real X or a real Wayland
[16:35] <apachelogger> who cares about real?
[16:35] <mgraesslin> how do you want to run Wayland if the stack just doesn't support it
[16:35] <Quintasan> yofel: I did not if you ask me
[16:35] <Quintasan> xD
[16:35] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: I hope you care
[16:35] <yofel> :/
[16:35] <mgraesslin> because that's what you want to do: provide a Wayland based desktop environment
[16:36] <Riddell> yofel: "it'll cost us money"
[16:36] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: what I care about is facts
[16:36] <apachelogger> we do not know in which capacity Mir will support Wayland/X
[16:36] <Quintasan> What I actually care about is to release a sane distro
[16:36] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: right, at the moment that is unknown
[16:36] <apachelogger> we know that it will have to support apps using either of those in some capacity though
[16:36] <yofel> fun
[16:36] <mgraesslin> but it's canonical we are dealing with so prepare for the worst
[16:37] <apachelogger> also we do not know whether Mir perhaps would even become better than Wayland
[16:37] <Quintasan> lol
[16:37] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Unity > KDE -> Discuss.
[16:37] <apachelogger> you are playing on the very same bull shit plane as canonical there
[16:37] <apachelogger> in the mir spec it goes how wayland's input is crap because it's like X' and therefore is *likely* to exhibit the same problems
[16:37] <apachelogger> that's not a fact
[16:38] <mgraesslin> sorry, I just think that I have more competence in judging a windowing system than people at canonical
[16:38] <murthy> yofel: i made changes to debian folder like creating postinst and postrm scripts, i need to test build, i need to use the ninjas ppa and so i added the ppa to my pbuilder sources.list Now i am trying to install apt-transport-https package and it fails to fetch. Seems access is  denied. what should i  do?
[16:38] <apachelogger> in fact, the very fact that they use this as fact suggests that no one ever actually evaluated the situation to a degree that they can honest to god say wayland's input handling is crap
[16:38] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: fair enough
[16:38] <mgraesslin> given what they wrote I have zero trust in mir ever becoming better than Wayland
[16:39] <yofel> greeeeat.... "release 13.04 if you want, but it won't get any security support, so if you need updates use post-raring"
[16:39] <apachelogger> I just find it hugely shitty to dismiss stuff simply because you assume it to become crap
[16:39] <Quintasan> but it will be lol
[16:39] <apachelogger> and that appleis to your view of mir as well as mir's view of wayland
[16:39] <mgraesslin> no I dismiss it, because it's a distro only solution
[16:39] <Quintasan> please do tell that they have resources to pull it off
[16:39] <Darkwing> I'm starting to get worried
[16:39] <yofel> murthy: disable ppa again, install apt-transport-https, enable
[16:39] <mgraesslin> if it becomes available in other distributions I will reconsider
[16:40] <Darkwing> like unity?
[16:41] <Quintasan> As long as they don't force us to use anything they invent I don't mind
[16:41] <murthy> yofel: done that , after that it says some packages cannot be downloaded because of a missing public  key
[16:41] <Riddell> Darkwing: what about?
[16:41] <yofel> murthy: ignore that (or just add the key)
[16:42] <murthy> yofel: ok
[16:42] <Darkwing> if Ubuntu changes to mir. let's say in 2 years they stop with X. we could still ship it with Kubuntu via ppa but then we have to maintain it right?
[16:42] <Darkwing> I know its long term but....
[16:43] <mgraesslin> don't worry about X, worry about Wayland
[16:43] <Riddell> 21:49 < RAOF> sarnold: Heh, yes. I obviously can't commit to how long we'll be supporting X, but I don't see us dropping it in the next, say, decade.
[16:43] <Riddell> from #ubuntu-devel last night ⇈
[16:46] <Darkwing-2> Woah.
[16:48]  * mgraesslin wanted to say something to Darkwing-2 - let's try whether I can remember
[16:49] <Darkwing-2> Sorry, my quassel-core server dropped... trouble-shooting
[16:49] <mgraesslin> ah yes concerning X
[16:49] <mgraesslin> with X you have two solutions - with root and rootless
[16:49] <mgraesslin> what for the future everybody cares about is rootless, that is XWayland, XMir
[16:49] <mgraesslin> support for that will be eternity
[16:50] <ovidiu-florin> Darkwing-2: my znc server also dropped :(
[16:50] <mgraesslin> I expect that at KDE we will have to support that for at least 20 years
[16:50] <mgraesslin> but that's not the same as running on top of X Server
[16:50] <Riddell> 21:48 < RAOF> The same thing will apply here - you'll ~always be able to start an X server on the system compositor, it'll run nested, and KWin won't be any  the wiser.
[16:50] <Darkwing> back up
[16:50] <Riddell> also from last night ⇈
[16:50] <mgraesslin> Riddell: that's nonesense, as that means we are limited as we don't get access to the system
[16:50] <mgraesslin> KWin wants to be the system compositor
[16:51] <mgraesslin> not some system underneath
[16:51] <mgraesslin> that would seriously handicap KWin compared to Unity on the same distribution
[16:51] <mgraesslin> it needs to be able to run the KDE way - however that looks like
[16:52] <apachelogger> what does it have to do with mir then?
[16:52] <mgraesslin> consider mir having changes to the kernel/driver stack making it impossible to start up KWin
[16:52] <apachelogger> i.e. I don't see how Kubuntu would be using Mir unless supported and reasonable
[16:52] <mgraesslin> as far as I understood Mir is based on Android input model
[16:52] <mgraesslin> KWin will be based on the "Weston" input model
[16:53] <mgraesslin> so if Ubuntu throws out the parts to get input you have a problem
[16:53] <apachelogger> wouldn't that also break X then?
[16:54] <mgraesslin> no, what they use is XMir, which is like XWayland
[16:54] <mgraesslin> in that case the nested X gets the input from Mir/Wayland
[16:54] <apachelogger> don't get it
[16:54] <apachelogger> so with kwin/wayland it'll also get it from wayland, no?
[16:55] <mgraesslin> with kwin/wayland XClients will get the input from KWin, just like Wayland clients
[16:55]  * apachelogger scratches head
[16:55] <apachelogger> you know
[16:55] <mgraesslin> but with KWin/Wayland KWin will get input directly from the kernel
[16:55] <apachelogger> I should rant about all this simply because canonical makes my head explode on a weekly basis now
[16:55] <mgraesslin> http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html
[16:56] <mgraesslin> look at the architecture and replace "Wayland compositor" with KWin
[16:56] <mgraesslin> and in the X architecture "Compositor" with KWin
[16:57] <apachelogger> so they have to change evdev behavior?
[16:57] <yofel> so, session ended
[16:57]  * yofel isn't quite sure what *new* things he heard
[16:57] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: to break input that is
[16:57] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: that's how I understand it, they will use Android input model which probably means no evdev
[16:58] <apachelogger> well
[16:58] <apachelogger> that does not mean they'll remove evdev :P
[16:58] <smartboyhw> Riddell yofel what was the discussion result?
[16:58] <Riddell> UDS> no decisions
[16:58] <apachelogger> I mean, then they break everything that is not using xmir anyway
[16:58] <Riddell> which is fine, I don't think it's the best forum for decisions
[16:58] <apachelogger> at which point they have rendered their platform incompatible with every flavor distro the ubuntu project has
[16:58] <mgraesslin> apachelogger: right, doesn't matter for Unity
[16:58] <apachelogger> at which point we'd all go elsewhere
[16:59] <apachelogger> i.e. at that point the ubuntu project is dead
[16:59] <apachelogger> and there is only the ubuntu desktop product remaining
[16:59]  * mgraesslin has the feeling that Canonical is heading that road for the last two years already
[16:59]  * smartboyhw wonders if Riddell heard him
[16:59] <smartboyhw> lol
[16:59] <apachelogger> (not that I could nto imagine this happening)
[16:59] <apachelogger> but it really is a none-issue
[16:59] <yofel> smartboyhw: he answered you
[16:59] <Riddell> smartboyhw: heard who or what?
[17:00] <apachelogger> at the point where such a change gets introduced the project is dead to the free software world
[17:00] <yofel> smartboyhw: there wasn't really anything new
[17:00] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: no secret that they are trying to build a platform, think we even talked about it at some UDS ^^
[17:00] <smartboyhw> Riddell me
[17:01] <apachelogger> the ultimate question of course is whether that platform has anything to do with Linux/is compatible with a common Linux stack
[17:01] <smartboyhw> bah nothing new??????
[17:01] <Riddell> smartboyhw: what did you say?
[17:01] <Riddell> 17:01 < slangasek> Laney, Riddell: yes, I think there is a consensus to carry on with the release schedule as written for now
[17:02] <smartboyhw> Good
[17:02]  * smartboyhw wants a raring-ing ringtail
[17:03]  * mgraesslin needs food
[17:05] <apachelogger> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
[17:05] <apachelogger>   * Recommend gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly as it seems to help with the
[17:05] <apachelogger>     phonon-gst issues
[17:05] <apachelogger> lawl
[17:05]  * apachelogger pokes yofel
[17:05] <apachelogger> nice workaround there
[17:05] <apachelogger> I hope you actually fixed the issue :P
[17:06] <yofel> no, it was muesly that requested that
[17:06] <apachelogger> ripping out of archive upload then
[17:06] <Darkwing> yofel: you get a mic to work in mumble?
[17:06] <apachelogger> murthy: your tomahawk branch needs merging with 0.6.0 it seems
[17:06] <apachelogger> also you should add a changelog entry I reckon
[17:06] <yofel> Darkwing: this is my work notebook, and I just noticed that the voice level is misconfigured
[17:07] <apachelogger>   * Build with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release 
[17:07] <apachelogger> yofel: why?
[17:07] <yofel> yet another thing I would need to read #tomahawk backlog for
[17:08] <apachelogger> and how do we get dbg symbols with a rlease build Oo
[17:08] <Quintasan> uhhh
[17:08] <apachelogger> yofel: plz be writing changelogs concerning why not what :P
[17:08] <Quintasan> we can't?
[17:08] <smartboyhw> lol
[17:08] <apachelogger> Quintasan: unless tomahawk's cmake is le broken in some weird way :P
[17:09] <yofel> well, there are some symbols *there*
[17:09] <Quintasan> at least it is not qmake
[17:09] <yofel> which is weird indeed
[17:09] <apachelogger> in RELEASE mode there should be no debug symbols
[17:10] <apachelogger> relwithdebinfo would build with release optimization but still create debug symbols (default I think)
[17:12] <yofel> Quintasan: hop onto mumble if you're already there
[17:12] <yofel> apachelogger: exactly
[17:13] <apachelogger> hm?
[17:13] <apachelogger> ah
[17:13] <apachelogger> -DBUILD_RELEASE
[17:13] <apachelogger> wondering what that flag does
[17:14] <apachelogger> murthy: debian/copyright is missing a newline at the end of file
[17:14] <apachelogger> murthy: please drop Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
[17:14] <apachelogger> murthy: please drop -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release (see if that breaks anything)
[17:15] <apachelogger> murthy: please add changelog entry and change maintainer to kubuntu devel or ubuntu devel (see any other package with an ubuntuX version)
[17:15] <apachelogger> otherwise good
[17:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: plymouth?
[17:16] <apachelogger> sheytan: about-kubuntu?
[17:16] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[17:17] <murthy> apachelogger: give the target branch for merge
[17:17] <apachelogger> there is no target
[17:17] <apachelogger> murthy: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/tomhawk
[17:17] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[17:18] <Darkwing> I'm the only one running for reelection?
[17:18] <apachelogger> my inbox!
[17:18] <yofel>   0 [2011-09-17 08:30] <muesli> you need to run cmake with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DBUILD_RELEASE=ON
[17:18] <yofel>   1 [2011-09-17 08:31] <awainzin> oh, he's debug building, and getting assert abortion?
[17:18] <apachelogger> WAAAAH
[17:18] <apachelogger> Darkwing: yes
[17:18] <apachelogger> AH
[17:19] <apachelogger> murthy: drop -DBUILD_RELEASE=ON too please
[17:19] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[17:19] <apachelogger> yofel: makes sense for ppa I guess
[17:19] <apachelogger> bug 1131636 <- lol
[17:20] <apachelogger> it's like every other qt update breaks that piece of unicorn sparkles
[17:20] <yofel> apachelogger: this is all I have, feel free to dig around: http://yofel.dyndns.org/ext/tomahawk-2013-03-05.txt
[17:22] <smartboyhw> apachelogger isn't that Sunday?
[17:22] <yofel>   0 [2011-12-07 14:18] <muesli> yofel: if you find the time, please do a new 0.3.3 package :-) please add gstreamer's ugly plugins to our deps. they seem to fix most of the gstreamer weirdness we're ex    periencing
[17:22] <yofel> probably we can drop that
[17:23] <apachelogger> bug 1144187
[17:23] <apachelogger> ?:O ? :O ? Oo ? :S ? :@ ? :(
[17:24] <yofel> ^^
[17:27] <smartboyhw> yofel please change the chan topic..
[17:27] <smartboyhw> Monday -> Sunday
[17:30] <yofel> also fine, turns out I don't I have time on saturday after all
[17:36] <Darkwing> I can't get filters working in KMail 4.8.5
[17:40] <ovidiu-florin> Darkwing: their working in 4.10
[17:41] <Darkwing> I'll need to figure out getting KDE updated in the LTS then.
[17:48] <murthy> yofel: is it ok if i do the 4.10.1 lintian correction works tomorrow morning? 
[17:50] <BluesKaj> you guys put 4.10.1 inj th43 backports for testing ?
[17:50] <BluesKaj> in the 
[17:50] <BluesKaj> making alot of typos with this splint on my wrist
[17:51] <murthy> BluesKaj: hi
[17:53] <BluesKaj> hi murthy
[18:02] <BluesKaj> is that 4.10.1 upgrade in the 13.04 backports? I don't see it 
[18:05] <murthy> apachelogger: I am getting buid dep issues, shall i just commit the changes that you recommended or should i try solve it . In case of me solving, can i do it tomorrow morning?
[18:05] <apachelogger> resolve
[18:06] <apachelogger> we still have 2 days or so ^^
[18:07] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[18:07] <murthy> apachelogger: what about the 4.10.1 lintian corrections, can that be done tomorrow?
[18:07] <apachelogger> not workign on .1
[18:07] <apachelogger> yofel: ^
[18:12] <murthy> Riddell: can the 4.10.1 lintian corrections work be done tomorrow ?
[18:13] <yofel> none of those are release critical so they don't have to be done fast
[18:14] <yofel> worst case we can fix them for 4.10.2
[18:15] <murthy> yofel: in that case can i go to bed?
[18:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you have push access to ubiquity?
[18:17] <apachelogger> nvm
[18:19] <yofel> murthy: go ahead
[18:19] <yofel> and good night :)
[18:19] <murthy> yofel: good night
[18:20] <apachelogger> yofel: do we have a pykde fix wrt py2 vs. py3 btw?
[18:27] <yofel> apachelogger: I have a fix for py2
[18:27] <yofel> JontheEchidna: Scott said you had some py3 kcm lying around, where is that?
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> sec
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> yofel: https://code.launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+junk/kde-config-drivers
[18:28] <yofel> thansk
[18:28] <yofel> *thanks
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> yofel: sudo make install; kbuildsycoca4; kcmshell4 kde-config-drivers
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> you may have to fiddle with the X-KDE-Library key/value pair in kde-config-drivers.desktop
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> I'll be afk for ~15 minutes, bbiab
[18:31] <apachelogger> raring looks really really raw :S
[18:31] <apachelogger> sheytan: !
[18:40] <lordievader> Good evening
[18:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes I can commit to ubiquity
[18:49] <Riddell> murthy_: it can be done any time
[18:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: you already fixed the kwin compisiting though :)
[18:49] <apachelogger> yay Riddell :)
[19:02] <yofel> ok, JontheEchidna's kcm says hello world and shows an empty window.
[19:02] <yofel> works I guess
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> yup
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> that's all I could get done, since the plugin loading was broken
[19:03] <yofel> kpython3pluginfactory needs to be kpythonpluginfactory
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> ok
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> cool
[19:04] <Guest88209> Plastmate 1.0 is out. Will this be packaged for Kubuntu backports?
[19:05] <apachelogger> yofel: huh?
[19:05] <yofel> yes, as soon as someone gets to it (bug 1147193)
[19:05] <apachelogger> yofel: how does kpythonpluginfactory work with py3vspy2? Oo
[19:06] <yofel> apachelogger: python3 has that stupid py3 abi tag, seems like looks for that when loading the SO
[19:06] <Guest88209> cool
[19:06] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:06] <apachelogger> spooky
[19:06] <apachelogger> actualy
[19:06] <apachelogger> weird
[19:06] <apachelogger> yofel: how do they not conflict then?
[19:07] <yofel> py2 is kpythonpluginfactory.so, py3 is kpythonpluginfactory.cpython-33m.so
[19:07] <apachelogger> lawl
[19:08] <apachelogger> fair enough
[19:15] <yofel> hm...
[19:18] <yofel> apachelogger: actually not
[19:18] <yofel> still broken -.-
[19:18] <yofel> the kcm simply didn't use anything python3 specific, that's why it worked
[19:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you don't track libqapt on bugs.kde?
[19:50] <apachelogger> yofel: I was wondering... :P
[19:50] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I do, but for some reason the kde sysadmins made me put it in the muon product
[19:51] <apachelogger> how would the pluginloader know which version to use
[19:51] <apachelogger> ah
[19:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: thx
[19:51] <yofel> apachelogger: on the positive side: now python3 is broken. which should be the more acceptable state for raring at least
[19:52] <apachelogger> might as well not have it when it is broken anyway :P
[19:52] <yofel> well, python3-kde4 itself works
[19:53] <yofel> just kpythonpluginfactory not
[19:53] <apachelogger> right
[19:53] <apachelogger> poor plasma
[19:53] <yofel> I'll care about that the moment I see a python3 plasma widget
[19:54] <apachelogger> lawl
[19:54] <yofel> I'll try to fix this anyway though
[19:54] <apachelogger> and then we have to do massive SRUs :P
[19:54] <yofel> but no idea how and no idea till when
[19:54] <apachelogger> as I said... that is very much an upstream issue that needs to be addressed upstream
[19:55] <yofel> yeah. Maybe I'll send them an angry mail
[19:55] <yofel> on second though, not too angry
[19:55] <yofel> *thought
[20:33] <soee> good evening
[20:36] <soee> Riddell, can i install 4.10.1 to test it ?
[20:41] <soee> shadeslayer, 
[20:45] <soee> yofel, ? :)
[21:02] <Riddell> soee: yo
[21:02] <Riddell> soee: what release?
[21:02] <soee> Riddell, rarring
[21:03] <Riddell> soee: groovy, go forth and test
[21:03] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/05/plasma-desktopmu2213.png
[21:04] <apachelogger> hello akonadi
[21:05] <Riddell> up and down up and down, looks like a chart of my energy levels :)
[21:10] <apachelogger> well, it is a curious thing because a) each spike represents a folder that is synced and the height apparently relates to how much mails are in that folder
[21:12] <apachelogger> also the highest spike hit my artifical bandwith limit
[21:14] <soee> :< transfer is soooo slooow
[21:38] <soee> reeboot
[21:42] <yofel> raring and quantal work fine for me
[22:05] <Riddell> https://plus.google.com/115130660395556787952/posts/5eNxFFXCCt4  "How technology decisions are made at Canonical."
[22:06] <Riddell> hmm, soee disappeared
[22:06] <Riddell> skaet: looks like I saved raring
[22:07] <skaet> Riddell,  well done!
[22:08] <Riddell> skaet: how will no releases affect linaro?
[22:08]  * skaet is in HK at Connect this week, and is seriously grumpy about the timing of the virtual sessions
[22:09] <Riddell> skaet: but you had half a week's notice!  that's plenty time! </sarcasm>
[22:09] <Riddell> actually I'm being unfair it was a full week
[22:09] <skaet> Riddell,   trying to assess that here right now in conversations with folk here at Connec
[22:11] <skaet> issue is they knew Connect was happening,  why didn't they push it out a week so that the ARM community folks who care about Ubuntu could participate?
[22:13] <skaet> a lot of the areas evolving - phones, tablet, dense arm based servers are arm based, and alot of those folk are participating at VERY full week here.
[22:25] <skaet> hardware manufacturers have different requirements than the traditional desktop market,  and I think they should be participating in the discussion of release cadence if we're trying to move the project to be more friendly to those targets.
[22:30] <apachelogger> everything is expected to move so fast :(
[22:30] <apachelogger> change makes me dizzy 
[23:19] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/06/plasma-desktopae2213.png
[23:20] <yofel> your system's alive. Isn't that good...
[23:21] <apachelogger> so silly
[23:21] <yofel> !testers | 4.10.1 finished building on precise if someone has the time to test it
[23:34] <ScottK> Riddell: Not much.
[23:34] <Riddell> ScottK: what's that in answer to?
[23:35] <ScottK> Would I kill you if you uploaded Qscintilla2 without the symbols file.
[23:36] <Riddell> ok, I can live with not much, I've already lived through a bit of being killed already
[23:37] <ScottK> skellat: Unsaid in the public discussions, but I suspect they plan to make OEM specific private LP derivatives of rolling for different manufacturers.
[23:37] <ScottK> skellat: Nevermind
[23:37] <ScottK> That was meant for skaet.
[23:37] <ScottK> Bah.
[23:43]  * Riddell uploads 4.10.1 to raring
[23:47] <Riddell> http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/05/1304-go-ahead
[23:52] <jessie> So what does Mir mean for Kubuntu?
[23:52] <apachelogger> nothing much right now
[23:53] <jessie> apachelogger: And in a year?
[23:53] <apachelogger> Riddell, yofel, ScottK, shadeslayer: feedback on trello?
[23:53] <Riddell> just have to hope it does get in the way
[23:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm liking it so far
[23:53] <Riddell> not explored it fully I suspect
[23:54] <apachelogger> mostly straight forward anyway
[23:54] <apachelogger> I'll drop a mail to the list so that everyone is aware of us using it, suppose we should evaluate whether to continue using it after release
[23:54] <Riddell> yep, thanks
[23:55] <apachelogger> I think featurewise it fits our workflows pretty well, particularly since it does not really impose a way you have to use it
[23:58] <apachelogger> wendar: FWIW 'monthly snapshot' does sound more agile ;)