/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/05/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

jrwren_its not an oxymoron, I assure you.00:00
* greg-g walks away from this conversation00:00
jrwren_anyway, the piece it sounds like you are missing is that you can define multiplication in terms of addition. once you do that, it should be obvious how to use loops and addition00:00
jrwren_lol greg-g00:00
jrwren_disclaimer: i've been the shitty instructor at community college :)00:01
kingklicklol its all good. I honestly understand logically how to do it. Just cant write the code and dont see why a loop would be necessary. I think it just adds to the difficulty rating00:03
brouschHow would you do multiplication using only addition without a loop?00:03
kingklicktake num1 and num2 from the input....and add num1 together num2 amount of times00:04
Blazeixsounds like loop territory to me.00:04
kingklick<-------CLUELESS.....dont understand for and while loops, do and done, makes no sense to me00:05
brouschThink about the second part you said00:05
kingklicksorry if this seems to be going round and round im just being honest, i have no idea00:05
brouschYou are correct, but how would you do it?00:05
brousch"num2 amount of times"00:05
kingklicklogically i would just add them together somehow without a loop....how would a loop add them together?00:06
kingklickhonestly, im really trying to rack my brain for ways00:06
brouschYou tell the loop how many times to run00:06
Blazeixa loop will do whatever you tell it to a certain amount of times00:06
kingklickhow do you know how many times though without knowing the input of num200:06
brouschYou do know the input of num200:07
brouschit is num2!00:07
Blazeixso the trick is that you do know what the input of num2 is, you'll ask the user, then do the loop.00:07
kingklickthats what i meant, i wouldnt know it, the user would00:07
Blazeixyou'll ask the user for input, and store it in a 'variable'00:08
Blazeixthen you can use your variable in your program, so you'll know what value the user typed00:09
Blazeixa for loop can use a variable -- it doesn't have to be hard-coded to specific number.00:10
kingklicki know i have to echo the statements, than read the input, than start the loop. but as far as declaring variables....00:11
Blazeixdo you have an example program that's reading the user input?00:11
Blazeixor something you've written so far00:11
kingklickno i dont....i dont really know how to write the loop with arguments and conditions, becasue they werent explained that well....i know its like "for do this and this" done?00:13
Blazeixtake a look at this for loop in bash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_loop#Bash00:13
Blazeixthe second form, specifically00:13
Blazeixyou can replace the '5' with a variable00:14
jrwren_ya know, you have a really good point - if you have never programmed before, getting a bash for loop to run X times is not easy.00:14
jrwren_i dont' know how to do it without seq00:14
jrwren_did you learn seq ?00:14
jrwren_also, do you have a textbook?00:15
kingklickdidnt learn seq....there is a textbook, but the examples and explanations are very vague00:16
Blazeixi'd pay attention to the examples. if they're code they can't be too vague :)00:16
jrwren_type in every example, change every value in every example so you now how each bit works.00:17
kingklicktrue but as far as arithmetic examples like the one problem i have to do there isnt anything in the book to even help a little bit00:17
Blazeixcan you use what we've linked so far to print out the numbers 1 to 10?00:18
Blazeixi think getting some code running might help00:18
jrwren_oh god, i guess I could increment myself without using seq. YUK.00:18
Blazeixyeah, math in bash in general is pretty ugly00:19
jrwren_I don't mind that.00:19
jrwren_its just, seq seems to be the idomatic unix way to do it, and yet, if you don't know about it - yeah, you have to do all the extra bits00:19
Blazeixyeah, i'd lean toward a c-style for loop in bash, not idiomatic00:20
jrwren_right.00:20
kingklickill have to try something tomorrow guys.....i appreciate the help. Ill check in tomorrow00:20
Blazeixgood luck00:21
kingklickthx00:21
greg-g:/00:22
jrwren_ok, he is gone, everyone paste their solutions :p00:22
Blazeixhaha00:23
jrwren_what, no one went and wrote it to see if there was some tricK?00:25
Blazeixoh no, i totally did :) http://vpaste.net/coNXL00:27
jrwren_whoa, i didn't know bash had a for (()) form00:28
Blazeixi definitely had that "wait, how the hell does math work in bash" moment00:28
Blazeixhad to look it up00:28
jrwren_i did mine as a oneliner http://vpaste.net/bc3GL00:28
jrwren_but i used seq.00:28
Blazeixyeah, that's probably better00:29
jrwren_nah.00:30
jrwren_i like yours00:30
Blazeixnot pure bash, but seq is much more common to see00:30
jrwren_reading C code: i see gotos00:55
snap-lEvenming01:04
snap-levening, even01:04
snap-lread scrollback. seq is definitely the way to get around pain in bash01:04
snap-lSeesmic turned off Twitter Proxy accounts, so no more identi.ca on my phone13:23
mathomastechsnap-l: I read yesterday that twitter was also shutting down Tweetdeck over the course of the next few weeks.13:24
snap-lNice. What a bag of assholes.13:24
snap-lAlso mustard isn't working either, so yippe.13:26
mathomastechYea, I think twitter has begun the process of depreciating their API's13:26
mathomastechI never really used twitter. I have an account, and gave it about a year when it first came out but never really got anything out of it so like facebook, I basically trashed it.13:27
snap-lI told myself I'd keep twitter around as long as I could access it via third party applications13:28
brouschHootsuite still works13:30
brouschsnap-l: Isn't identi.ca going away?13:32
brouschHm, maybe there are issues with hootsuite13:34
rick_h_morning13:39
rick_h_mathomastech: it's keeping it in web form, just not in app form (phone, etc)13:39
rick_h_yea, api end of days is upon us. Bye bye ver1.0 api13:40
snap-lbrousch: I tried to use hootsuite with identi.ca. It doesn't work.13:51
brouschIt is a poor experience13:51
snap-lOr at least I have a better chance of launching a Saturn 5 by poking buttons than I do of figuring out how hootsuite is supposed to work13:51
snap-l:qa13:54
snap-lhah13:54
jjessewow there is fascinating conversation in #kubuntu-devel on what Mir means to kubuntu16:29
jjesseand what's going to happen w/ things16:29
brouschut oh16:30
rick_h_qt ftw?16:30
jrwren_i think some parts of KDE is direct to xlib17:07
jjesseyeah not quite17:10
jjesseyeah not quite sure17:10
jjessethe problem is that when kubuntu was created it tried to stay as core to default KDE as possible17:10
jjesseso with MIR that must change17:10
snap-lhttp://paste.mitechie.com/show/893/18:30
snap-lHow's the afternoon so far?19:41
snap-llistening to http://metalinjection.fm19:42
snap-lWish I was working from home so I could keep UDS on in the background19:42
rick_h_hate hotels and their climate control, uncomfy chairs, etc19:47
brouschrick_h_: You on vacation?19:51
rick_h_brousch: oh yea..sprinting vacation19:51
rick_h_less sun, more code19:52
snap-lrick_h_: Either fishstick or oven?19:58
snap-lrick_h_: Either fishstick or popsicle19:58
snap-lApproved vs Unapproved locos appear to be going by the wayside20:01
snap-lThis makes me happy.20:01
jcastrothat sounds awesome20:01
jcastroit's like, who cares, just drink beer and ubuntu20:01
snap-lExactly20:01
rick_h_woot!20:02
snap-lFrankly, if it gets people concentrating more on going good work and not policing the work of others, I'm all for it.20:03
jcastroindeed20:03
greg-gsnap-l: so, no more conf packs?20:11
snap-lgreg-g: I think it'll be evaluated on a case-by-case basis20:14
snap-lbut there's not that many resources to go around anymore, so the distinction between the two is becoming more of a status symbol20:14
snap-land less about who gets a bigger piece of the pie.20:14
snap-lIf losing out on DVD shipments means we don't have to waste cycles on grading each loco against each other, I'll live20:16
snap-lI think it'll also be easier to find people to be a part of the loco council if it doesn't mean having to grind through locos20:18
greg-gsnap-l: yeah, one part of why I dropped off that21:01
greg-g(the council)21:01
derekvhttp://ergodox.org/Default.aspx want21:04
greg-gderekv: innteresting, looks like the same key layout as the Kinesis, except it also has six extra keys for your index fingers there in the middle21:05
derekvyes, which i was thinking about wanting already21:06
derekvand21:06
derekvi really want split21:06
rick_h_the kenisis has the same center keys21:06
rick_h_ah, well the countoured does...21:07
derekvthe thumb keys are the same21:07
greg-gI mean the ones to the left of h and the right of g21:07
derekvi wanted a split + countoured kinesis21:07
rick_h_greg-g: ah, yea21:07
derekvbut, this is better, except its not pitted21:07
greg-gderekv: the advantage? I have that one21:07
derekvadvantage pro, typing on one now21:08
greg-gyeah, the pit makes a difference, in my opinion21:08
rick_h_hmm, does this exist?21:08
greg-gright, me too! :)21:08
derekvrick_h_: not that i can find, this is the closest, just stumbled on it21:08
derekvits a kit however21:08
greg-ghaha http://ergodox.org/About.aspx21:08
derekvbut on the bright side you can pick your switches21:09
rick_h_oh hell, this is a build your own adventure kind of thing21:09
rick_h_interesting21:09
derekvgreg-g: nothing there21:09
rick_h_lol https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox21:09
greg-ghave I told you I'd pay someone to put a trackpall or touch pad in the center of my advantage pro? Well, I would. Who wants to?21:09
greg-gderekv: hence my haha :)21:10
greg-grick_h_: nice!21:10
derekvgreg-g: its been done21:11
derekvi like the mouse mouse21:11
derekvmouse21:12
derekvmouse mouse21:12
greg-gderekv: yeah, but all one offs, and I don't have the time, I'm willing to pay!21:12
derekvyou just want a usb trackpad, some glue or velcro, and shorten the cord21:13
derekvdo you have the usb advatage?21:13
snap-lGod I hate split keyboards. :)21:13
snap-lBut cool if someone wants that. :)21:14
rick_h_derekv: I've got that one21:14
rick_h_derekv: interested in buying let me know, will bring to CHC next week :)21:14
greg-gderekv: yeah, usb advantage21:15
derekvthats what I have21:15
derekvthough i could always use a third one21:15
derekv;p21:15
greg-gderekv: I liked the idea of it being flush with the keyboard shell21:15
greg-gderekv: I have only one personal one, but I've forced two orgs to buy one for my work desk :)21:15
greg-g(CC and WMF)21:15
* snap-l doesn't understand those keyboards one whit. :)21:16
snap-lIt's like those damn Microsoft Natural keyboards21:17
greg-gBUT BETTER!21:17
rick_h_snap-l: just wait, we only recently got you on mechanical :P21:17
greg-gand just about the only thing that has helped my wrist pain21:17
greg-grick_h_++21:18
snap-lreserving judgement, but silently judging you21:18
rick_h_lol21:18
rick_h_used to that21:18
derekvnever really like the microsoft naturals21:18
rick_h_if they had decent switches I'd still probably use one21:19
greg-gme neither21:19
rick_h_now, a MS natural mechanical with 10less would be awesome!21:19
* snap-l ius going to figure out how to mount a keyboard like that on a beach ball21:19
snap-land call it the ball-keyboard21:20
snap-lAnd come up with some bullshit ergo reason why everyone needs my balls21:20
derekvone  problem with the kinesis countour is that it isn't split enough21:21
greg-gderekv: good point, yeah, I could use about another 2-3 inches21:21
greg-gone keyboard per child!21:22
derekvi'd use like 3 ft21:22
greg-gone (custom) keyboard per child!21:22
greg-gwha?21:22
snap-lWho needs desks when you can use the dead-space between your kinesis pods21:23
derekvyes the other problem with the kinesis is the size21:24
derekvactually, are there "thin" keyboards with mechanical switches21:24
snap-lWhat are the name of those handlebars on motorbikes that are extended above the rider's head?21:24
derekvchoppah21:24
greg-gapehangers21:24
rick_h_yea, apehangers21:25
derekvgreg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfg_e6YG37U21:25
snap-lThat's what I think of when I think of kinesis keyboards21:25
greg-gsnap-l: do you also hum "born to be wild"?21:25
derekvsnap-l: did someone tell you your suppoled to put it above your head21:25
derekvbecause, they were having a joke21:25
snap-lgreg-g: no, UI just think they're ridiculous21:25
greg-gderekv: thanks!21:25
snap-lhttp://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/40_Now_Those_Are_Ape_Hangers.jpg21:26
greg-gderekv: I don't know if you saw, we had the author of The Chair, Galen something, come talk to WMF about sitting/chairs/etc21:26
derekvno..21:27
derekvdidn't know21:27
derekvtrackpad is the ergonomic worst case scenario21:27
derekvtrackpad on laptop that is21:27
derekvwouldn't matter if your not using it for hours though21:28
snap-lI'm surprised nobody has tried to put the Blackberry roll-on ball in the center of a laptop keyboard21:29
rick_h_they do that on keyboards for server rooms21:29
derekvmy bad habit is not alwasy using shift or ctrl on opposite hand as key21:29
greg-gderekv: that guy seems too "UGHUH I'M A STRONG MAN" too me :)21:29
rick_h_derekv: yea, same here. only left ctrl/shift exist in my world21:29
snap-lNot thumb-level, I mean in nipple-space21:29
greg-gderekv: yeah, ditto on that (shift/ctrl/alt)21:29
derekvgreg-g: kelly starrett?21:29
greg-gderekv: yeah21:30
derekvgreg-g: couple things, one in that video he seemed really nervous and not himself21:30
snap-lI barely use my right hand for shift / ctrl21:30
greg-gderekv: I admit, I only skipped around for 20 seconds :)21:30
derekvthe other, he's a fitess and mobility expert, physical therapist, and he is (not kidding) smarter than all of us combined21:31
derekvbut he talks like a surferbro21:31
derekvwell maybe not combined. =p21:31
snap-lhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLeREzs-nqI >21:31
snap-l?21:31
greg-gderekv: :)21:32
snap-lI dunno... my parents think I'm pretty smart. ;)21:32
derekvactually I don't know what he talks like he says really wacky shit21:33
derekvhe's probably nervous at the google thing trying not to say something outlandish21:33
rick_h_woot https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ke1Y3P9D0Bc looks better than 221:33
* rick_h_ admits to being fanboi21:34
jrwren_i upgraded to flake8 2, when they announced a few days ago - and today is my first day back in python - VERY STRICT NOW - much nicer.21:37
derekvugh ok gotta focus ttyls21:38
rick_h_jrwren_: yea21:38
greg-grick_h_: NOT URGENT: getting 502 errors on bookie when trying to save, losing tag data but links are bmark'd21:42
rick_h_greg-g: looking21:43
rick_h_greg-g: what tags were you trying to use?21:44
greg-gergo, keyboard, diy, kit21:45
jrwren_I really like #128 - continuation line under-indented for visual indent.21:45
jrwren_i never knew the right style for that :)21:45
rick_h_jrwren_: yea, lots of those to fix but definitely nier21:45
rick_h_nicer21:45
rick_h_jrwren_: so that's the updated pep8 doing that21:46
jrwren_right21:47
snap-lYeah, I've come to not ragequit over that one. :)21:58
snap-lFirst time I saw that, I couldn't figure out what the right one owas21:58
rick_h_droidevening23:21
snap-lEvening23:44
snap-lParty party23:44

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