[00:00] <jrwren_> its not an oxymoron, I assure you.
[00:00]  * greg-g walks away from this conversation
[00:00] <jrwren_> anyway, the piece it sounds like you are missing is that you can define multiplication in terms of addition. once you do that, it should be obvious how to use loops and addition
[00:00] <jrwren_> lol greg-g
[00:01] <jrwren_> disclaimer: i've been the shitty instructor at community college :)
[00:03] <kingklick> lol its all good. I honestly understand logically how to do it. Just cant write the code and dont see why a loop would be necessary. I think it just adds to the difficulty rating
[00:03] <brousch> How would you do multiplication using only addition without a loop?
[00:04] <kingklick> take num1 and num2 from the input....and add num1 together num2 amount of times
[00:04] <Blazeix> sounds like loop territory to me.
[00:05] <kingklick> <-------CLUELESS.....dont understand for and while loops, do and done, makes no sense to me
[00:05] <brousch> Think about the second part you said
[00:05] <kingklick> sorry if this seems to be going round and round im just being honest, i have no idea
[00:05] <brousch> You are correct, but how would you do it?
[00:05] <brousch> "num2 amount of times"
[00:06] <kingklick> logically i would just add them together somehow without a loop....how would a loop add them together?
[00:06] <kingklick> honestly, im really trying to rack my brain for ways
[00:06] <brousch> You tell the loop how many times to run
[00:06] <Blazeix> a loop will do whatever you tell it to a certain amount of times
[00:06] <kingklick> how do you know how many times though without knowing the input of num2
[00:07] <brousch> You do know the input of num2
[00:07] <brousch> it is num2!
[00:07] <Blazeix> so the trick is that you do know what the input of num2 is, you'll ask the user, then do the loop.
[00:07] <kingklick> thats what i meant, i wouldnt know it, the user would
[00:08] <Blazeix> you'll ask the user for input, and store it in a 'variable'
[00:09] <Blazeix> then you can use your variable in your program, so you'll know what value the user typed
[00:10] <Blazeix> a for loop can use a variable -- it doesn't have to be hard-coded to specific number.
[00:11] <kingklick> i know i have to echo the statements, than read the input, than start the loop. but as far as declaring variables....
[00:11] <Blazeix> do you have an example program that's reading the user input?
[00:11] <Blazeix> or something you've written so far
[00:13] <kingklick> no i dont....i dont really know how to write the loop with arguments and conditions, becasue they werent explained that well....i know its like "for do this and this" done?
[00:13] <Blazeix> take a look at this for loop in bash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_loop#Bash
[00:13] <Blazeix> the second form, specifically
[00:14] <Blazeix> you can replace the '5' with a variable
[00:14] <jrwren_> ya know, you have a really good point - if you have never programmed before, getting a bash for loop to run X times is not easy.
[00:14] <jrwren_> i dont' know how to do it without seq
[00:14] <jrwren_> did you learn seq ?
[00:15] <jrwren_> also, do you have a textbook?
[00:16] <kingklick> didnt learn seq....there is a textbook, but the examples and explanations are very vague
[00:16] <Blazeix> i'd pay attention to the examples. if they're code they can't be too vague :)
[00:17] <jrwren_> type in every example, change every value in every example so you now how each bit works.
[00:17] <kingklick> true but as far as arithmetic examples like the one problem i have to do there isnt anything in the book to even help a little bit
[00:18] <Blazeix> can you use what we've linked so far to print out the numbers 1 to 10?
[00:18] <Blazeix> i think getting some code running might help
[00:18] <jrwren_> oh god, i guess I could increment myself without using seq. YUK.
[00:19] <Blazeix> yeah, math in bash in general is pretty ugly
[00:19] <jrwren_> I don't mind that.
[00:19] <jrwren_> its just, seq seems to be the idomatic unix way to do it, and yet, if you don't know about it - yeah, you have to do all the extra bits
[00:20] <Blazeix> yeah, i'd lean toward a c-style for loop in bash, not idiomatic
[00:20] <jrwren_> right.
[00:20] <kingklick> ill have to try something tomorrow guys.....i appreciate the help. Ill check in tomorrow
[00:21] <Blazeix> good luck
[00:21] <kingklick> thx
[00:22] <greg-g> :/
[00:22] <jrwren_> ok, he is gone, everyone paste their solutions :p
[00:23] <Blazeix> haha
[00:25] <jrwren_> what, no one went and wrote it to see if there was some tricK?
[00:27] <Blazeix> oh no, i totally did :) http://vpaste.net/coNXL
[00:28] <jrwren_> whoa, i didn't know bash had a for (()) form
[00:28] <Blazeix> i definitely had that "wait, how the hell does math work in bash" moment
[00:28] <Blazeix> had to look it up
[00:28] <jrwren_> i did mine as a oneliner http://vpaste.net/bc3GL
[00:28] <jrwren_> but i used seq.
[00:29] <Blazeix> yeah, that's probably better
[00:30] <jrwren_> nah.
[00:30] <jrwren_> i like yours
[00:30] <Blazeix> not pure bash, but seq is much more common to see
[00:55] <jrwren_> reading C code: i see gotos
[01:04] <snap-l> Evenming
[01:04] <snap-l> evening, even
[01:04] <snap-l> read scrollback. seq is definitely the way to get around pain in bash
[13:23] <snap-l> Seesmic turned off Twitter Proxy accounts, so no more identi.ca on my phone
[13:24] <mathomastech> snap-l: I read yesterday that twitter was also shutting down Tweetdeck over the course of the next few weeks.
[13:24] <snap-l> Nice. What a bag of assholes.
[13:26] <snap-l> Also mustard isn't working either, so yippe.
[13:26] <mathomastech> Yea, I think twitter has begun the process of depreciating their API's
[13:27] <mathomastech> I never really used twitter. I have an account, and gave it about a year when it first came out but never really got anything out of it so like facebook, I basically trashed it.
[13:28] <snap-l> I told myself I'd keep twitter around as long as I could access it via third party applications
[13:30] <brousch> Hootsuite still works
[13:32] <brousch> snap-l: Isn't identi.ca going away?
[13:34] <brousch> Hm, maybe there are issues with hootsuite
[13:39] <rick_h_> morning
[13:39] <rick_h_> mathomastech: it's keeping it in web form, just not in app form (phone, etc)
[13:40] <rick_h_> yea, api end of days is upon us. Bye bye ver1.0 api
[13:51] <snap-l> brousch: I tried to use hootsuite with identi.ca. It doesn't work.
[13:51] <brousch> It is a poor experience
[13:51] <snap-l> Or at least I have a better chance of launching a Saturn 5 by poking buttons than I do of figuring out how hootsuite is supposed to work
[13:54] <snap-l> :qa
[13:54] <snap-l> hah
[16:29] <jjesse> wow there is fascinating conversation in #kubuntu-devel on what Mir means to kubuntu
[16:29] <jjesse> and what's going to happen w/ things
[16:30] <brousch> ut oh
[16:30] <rick_h_> qt ftw?
[17:07] <jrwren_> i think some parts of KDE is direct to xlib
[17:10] <jjesse> yeah not quite
[17:10] <jjesse> yeah not quite sure
[17:10] <jjesse> the problem is that when kubuntu was created it tried to stay as core to default KDE as possible
[17:10] <jjesse> so with MIR that must change
[18:30] <snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/893/
[19:41] <snap-l> How's the afternoon so far?
[19:42] <snap-l> listening to http://metalinjection.fm
[19:42] <snap-l> Wish I was working from home so I could keep UDS on in the background
[19:47] <rick_h_> hate hotels and their climate control, uncomfy chairs, etc
[19:51] <brousch> rick_h_: You on vacation?
[19:51] <rick_h_> brousch: oh yea..sprinting vacation
[19:52] <rick_h_> less sun, more code
[19:58] <snap-l> rick_h_: Either fishstick or oven?
[19:58] <snap-l> rick_h_: Either fishstick or popsicle
[20:01] <snap-l> Approved vs Unapproved locos appear to be going by the wayside
[20:01] <snap-l> This makes me happy.
[20:01] <jcastro> that sounds awesome
[20:01] <jcastro> it's like, who cares, just drink beer and ubuntu
[20:01] <snap-l> Exactly
[20:02] <rick_h_> woot!
[20:03] <snap-l> Frankly, if it gets people concentrating more on going good work and not policing the work of others, I'm all for it.
[20:03] <jcastro> indeed
[20:11] <greg-g> snap-l: so, no more conf packs?
[20:14] <snap-l> greg-g: I think it'll be evaluated on a case-by-case basis
[20:14] <snap-l> but there's not that many resources to go around anymore, so the distinction between the two is becoming more of a status symbol
[20:14] <snap-l> and less about who gets a bigger piece of the pie.
[20:16] <snap-l> If losing out on DVD shipments means we don't have to waste cycles on grading each loco against each other, I'll live
[20:18] <snap-l> I think it'll also be easier to find people to be a part of the loco council if it doesn't mean having to grind through locos
[21:01] <greg-g> snap-l: yeah, one part of why I dropped off that
[21:01] <greg-g> (the council)
[21:04] <derekv> http://ergodox.org/Default.aspx want
[21:05] <greg-g> derekv: innteresting, looks like the same key layout as the Kinesis, except it also has six extra keys for your index fingers there in the middle
[21:06] <derekv> yes, which i was thinking about wanting already
[21:06] <derekv> and
[21:06] <derekv> i really want split
[21:06] <rick_h_> the kenisis has the same center keys
[21:07] <rick_h_> ah, well the countoured does...
[21:07] <derekv> the thumb keys are the same
[21:07] <greg-g> I mean the ones to the left of h and the right of g
[21:07] <derekv> i wanted a split + countoured kinesis
[21:07] <rick_h_> greg-g: ah, yea
[21:07] <derekv> but, this is better, except its not pitted
[21:07] <greg-g> derekv: the advantage? I have that one
[21:08] <derekv> advantage pro, typing on one now
[21:08] <greg-g> yeah, the pit makes a difference, in my opinion
[21:08] <rick_h_> hmm, does this exist?
[21:08] <greg-g> right, me too! :)
[21:08] <derekv> rick_h_: not that i can find, this is the closest, just stumbled on it
[21:08] <derekv> its a kit however
[21:08] <greg-g> haha http://ergodox.org/About.aspx
[21:09] <derekv> but on the bright side you can pick your switches
[21:09] <rick_h_> oh hell, this is a build your own adventure kind of thing
[21:09] <rick_h_> interesting
[21:09] <derekv> greg-g: nothing there
[21:09] <rick_h_> lol https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
[21:09] <greg-g> have I told you I'd pay someone to put a trackpall or touch pad in the center of my advantage pro? Well, I would. Who wants to?
[21:10] <greg-g> derekv: hence my haha :)
[21:10] <greg-g> rick_h_: nice!
[21:11] <derekv> greg-g: its been done
[21:11] <derekv> i like the mouse mouse
[21:12] <derekv> mouse
[21:12] <derekv> mouse mouse
[21:12] <greg-g> derekv: yeah, but all one offs, and I don't have the time, I'm willing to pay!
[21:13] <derekv> you just want a usb trackpad, some glue or velcro, and shorten the cord
[21:13] <derekv> do you have the usb advatage?
[21:13] <snap-l> God I hate split keyboards. :)
[21:14] <snap-l> But cool if someone wants that. :)
[21:14] <rick_h_> derekv: I've got that one
[21:14] <rick_h_> derekv: interested in buying let me know, will bring to CHC next week :)
[21:15] <greg-g> derekv: yeah, usb advantage
[21:15] <derekv> thats what I have
[21:15] <derekv> though i could always use a third one
[21:15] <derekv> ;p
[21:15] <greg-g> derekv: I liked the idea of it being flush with the keyboard shell
[21:15] <greg-g> derekv: I have only one personal one, but I've forced two orgs to buy one for my work desk :)
[21:15] <greg-g> (CC and WMF)
[21:16]  * snap-l doesn't understand those keyboards one whit. :)
[21:17] <snap-l> It's like those damn Microsoft Natural keyboards
[21:17] <greg-g> BUT BETTER!
[21:17] <rick_h_> snap-l: just wait, we only recently got you on mechanical :P
[21:17] <greg-g> and just about the only thing that has helped my wrist pain
[21:18] <greg-g> rick_h_++
[21:18] <snap-l> reserving judgement, but silently judging you
[21:18] <rick_h_> lol
[21:18] <rick_h_> used to that
[21:18] <derekv> never really like the microsoft naturals
[21:19] <rick_h_> if they had decent switches I'd still probably use one
[21:19] <greg-g> me neither
[21:19] <rick_h_> now, a MS natural mechanical with 10less would be awesome!
[21:19]  * snap-l ius going to figure out how to mount a keyboard like that on a beach ball
[21:20] <snap-l> and call it the ball-keyboard
[21:20] <snap-l> And come up with some bullshit ergo reason why everyone needs my balls
[21:21] <derekv> one  problem with the kinesis countour is that it isn't split enough
[21:21] <greg-g> derekv: good point, yeah, I could use about another 2-3 inches
[21:22] <greg-g> one keyboard per child!
[21:22] <derekv> i'd use like 3 ft
[21:22] <greg-g> one (custom) keyboard per child!
[21:22] <greg-g> wha?
[21:23] <snap-l> Who needs desks when you can use the dead-space between your kinesis pods
[21:24] <derekv> yes the other problem with the kinesis is the size
[21:24] <derekv> actually, are there "thin" keyboards with mechanical switches
[21:24] <snap-l> What are the name of those handlebars on motorbikes that are extended above the rider's head?
[21:24] <derekv> choppah
[21:24] <greg-g> apehangers
[21:25] <rick_h_> yea, apehangers
[21:25] <derekv> greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfg_e6YG37U
[21:25] <snap-l> That's what I think of when I think of kinesis keyboards
[21:25] <greg-g> snap-l: do you also hum "born to be wild"?
[21:25] <derekv> snap-l: did someone tell you your suppoled to put it above your head
[21:25] <derekv> because, they were having a joke
[21:25] <snap-l> greg-g: no, UI just think they're ridiculous
[21:25] <greg-g> derekv: thanks!
[21:26] <snap-l> http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/40_Now_Those_Are_Ape_Hangers.jpg
[21:26] <greg-g> derekv: I don't know if you saw, we had the author of The Chair, Galen something, come talk to WMF about sitting/chairs/etc
[21:27] <derekv> no..
[21:27] <derekv> didn't know
[21:27] <derekv> trackpad is the ergonomic worst case scenario
[21:27] <derekv> trackpad on laptop that is
[21:28] <derekv> wouldn't matter if your not using it for hours though
[21:29] <snap-l> I'm surprised nobody has tried to put the Blackberry roll-on ball in the center of a laptop keyboard
[21:29] <rick_h_> they do that on keyboards for server rooms
[21:29] <derekv> my bad habit is not alwasy using shift or ctrl on opposite hand as key
[21:29] <greg-g> derekv: that guy seems too "UGHUH I'M A STRONG MAN" too me :)
[21:29] <rick_h_> derekv: yea, same here. only left ctrl/shift exist in my world
[21:29] <snap-l> Not thumb-level, I mean in nipple-space
[21:29] <greg-g> derekv: yeah, ditto on that (shift/ctrl/alt)
[21:29] <derekv> greg-g: kelly starrett?
[21:30] <greg-g> derekv: yeah
[21:30] <derekv> greg-g: couple things, one in that video he seemed really nervous and not himself
[21:30] <snap-l> I barely use my right hand for shift / ctrl
[21:30] <greg-g> derekv: I admit, I only skipped around for 20 seconds :)
[21:31] <derekv> the other, he's a fitess and mobility expert, physical therapist, and he is (not kidding) smarter than all of us combined
[21:31] <derekv> but he talks like a surferbro
[21:31] <derekv> well maybe not combined. =p
[21:31] <snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLeREzs-nqI >
[21:31] <snap-l> ?
[21:32] <greg-g> derekv: :)
[21:32] <snap-l> I dunno... my parents think I'm pretty smart. ;)
[21:33] <derekv> actually I don't know what he talks like he says really wacky shit
[21:33] <derekv> he's probably nervous at the google thing trying not to say something outlandish
[21:33] <rick_h_> woot https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ke1Y3P9D0Bc looks better than 2
[21:34]  * rick_h_ admits to being fanboi
[21:37] <jrwren_> i upgraded to flake8 2, when they announced a few days ago - and today is my first day back in python - VERY STRICT NOW - much nicer.
[21:38] <derekv> ugh ok gotta focus ttyls
[21:38] <rick_h_> jrwren_: yea
[21:42] <greg-g> rick_h_: NOT URGENT: getting 502 errors on bookie when trying to save, losing tag data but links are bmark'd
[21:43] <rick_h_> greg-g: looking
[21:44] <rick_h_> greg-g: what tags were you trying to use?
[21:45] <greg-g> ergo, keyboard, diy, kit
[21:45] <jrwren_> I really like #128 - continuation line under-indented for visual indent.
[21:45] <jrwren_> i never knew the right style for that :)
[21:45] <rick_h_> jrwren_: yea, lots of those to fix but definitely nier
[21:45] <rick_h_> nicer
[21:46] <rick_h_> jrwren_: so that's the updated pep8 doing that
[21:47] <jrwren_> right
[21:58] <snap-l> Yeah, I've come to not ragequit over that one. :)
[21:58] <snap-l> First time I saw that, I couldn't figure out what the right one owas
[23:21] <rick_h_droid> evening
[23:44] <snap-l> Evening
[23:44] <snap-l> Party party