| thiagoandrade | I can see the work items on launchpad, but how should I proceed in case I want to help some specific work item? Should I talk to the responsible for it or what? | 00:50 |
|---|---|---|
| bryce | thiagoandrade, yes. Or if you're not sure who to talk to, ask robert or thomas for guidance. | 00:51 |
| llstarks | why mir? why not smithers? | 06:11 |
| === tvoss|eod is now known as tvoss | ||
| RAOF | Why not Zoidberg? | 06:20 |
| duflu | "Zoidberg ate my windows" sounds plausible | 06:44 |
| tvoss | good morning :) | 06:53 |
| llstarks | RAOF, don't let #wayland get under your skin. mir actually works. i've never seen a working wayland environment outside of rebecca black | 07:14 |
| llstarks | or weston | 07:14 |
| RAOF | Well, I got to roughly the point that we're currently at with respect to a system compositor some 6 months or so ago with weston :) | 07:20 |
| llstarks | RAOF, can you rephrase that? i interpreted that as "mir is where weston was 6 months ago" | 08:23 |
| llstarks | i'm probably just too tired to think straight | 08:24 |
| RAOF | llstarks: Well, it's not so much "mir is where weston was 6 months ago" as "weston could do this thing, 6 months ago, that mir does now". | 08:34 |
| tvoss | RAOF, admittedly focusing on the desktop form-factor, right? | 08:36 |
| RAOF | tvoss: Indeed. | 08:36 |
| RAOF | And it's not much help *weston* being able to do something, because weston isn't actually intended to be used. | 08:36 |
| RAOF | It's more a testbed. | 08:37 |
| tvoss | RAOF, yup | 08:37 |
| testi | Will Applications compiled for Mir run natively without compatibility layer (protocol translation, additional context switches) on Wayland Compositors? Does that apply for the other direction too? By application I mean anything not deeply integrated with the system, especially games, because under no circumstances I want Mir to introduce any delay (context switch, protocol translation) only because some game developer has chosen Mir as targ | 10:00 |
| testi | Is Mir capable of reliable bypass offscreen on fullscreen? (also in order to reduce delays)? | 10:00 |
| testi | in my last tests compiz is not reliable in that, while kwin does a good job | 10:01 |
| tvoss | testi, for your app related question: It's a question of the toolkit integration. So the integration work with the compositor normally happens on the toolkit layer (Qt/GTK/XUL...), so apps talk the native language of the compositor | 10:05 |
| tvoss | testi, for non-composited fullscreen: yes, we are working on that. Any specific use-case apart from fullscreen games/apps you have in mind? | 10:06 |
| testi | tvoss: and by a strongly-propaged default any toolkit will be compiled with both mir and wayland support? | 10:07 |
| tvoss | testi, toolkits normally have a platform abstraction layer that is pluggable at runtime. Qt for example allows you to switch the actual backend implementation by setting an environment variable | 10:08 |
| tvoss | testi, I'm not sure about the exact mechanism for GTK3, but I think it should support that | 10:08 |
| testi | I actually just have games in mind. That's all I care and I just want them to make the shortest path from input to screen, no matter what compositor I use. | 10:08 |
| testi | except for X11 I'd accept an external wrapper-server and protocol translation | 10:09 |
| tvoss | testi, @games: sure, we will optimize unredirected fullscreen and optimize for cases where pixel-type of a surface is xrgb and a surface is fullscreen | 10:10 |
| tvoss | testi, any specific game-engine you have in mind? | 10:11 |
| testi | tvoss: Unigine, ioquake3, warsow, xonotic, any wined3d game, any wine opengl game, Source Engine, Doom3 | 10:12 |
| tvoss | testi, that's a comprehensive list :) I hope I could answer your question? | 10:13 |
| testi | tvoss: I just wonder what happens when a game supports wayland only - will there be a wrapper-server, or will it be an in-process module of the Display-Server without any wrapping, in other words equally short paths, no additional context switch | 10:15 |
| tvoss | testi, right now, if a game only supports wayland, it will not run against mir. However, a wrapping approach would be one way to solve it, essentially allowing the game to talk wayland to Mir, and then switching to unredirected fullscreen. | 10:17 |
| llstarks | tvoss, what will wayland/mir-enabled video players be like on ubuntu touch? for example, mplayer2 and mpv support wayland. if they support mir in the future, would i be able to compile or use an armhf binary and run it on the phone? | 10:18 |
| testi | but then wayland is not translated to Mir? it directly reports to the inner agnostic core? And there is no delay because of that? And mir is basically a Display Server which speaks 2 languages and Mir is only offically but not physically the main protocol? | 10:18 |
| tvoss | llstarks, sure. Again, most of the applications will rely on a toolkit and we will work towards enabling them for Mir | 10:19 |
| tvoss | testi, right, think about the protocol as a bridge to a certain degree. Almost all of the rendering is anyway done via the (e)gl(es) drivers, i.e., the actual buffer content is not transmitted via any protocol | 10:20 |
| testi | tvoss: I know, but input events are | 10:21 |
| tvoss | testi, sure, those would need to be translated | 10:22 |
| testi | tvoss: translated into Mir? | 10:22 |
| tvoss | testi, from Mir into Wayland, to be picky here, but yes | 10:23 |
| testi | tvoss: of course | 10:23 |
| testi | tvoss: but why? It doesn't need to talk "Mir" if it ends up in a wayland client. | 10:25 |
| tvoss | testi, at some point, things from the core need to be mapped to a protocol/communication layer, that's where the translation happens. That's server-side though, not client side | 10:26 |
| testi | tvoss: but then it's not mapped from protocol to protocol, but from the core directly to wayland? | 10:27 |
| tvoss | testi, yup | 10:27 |
| testi | tvoss: Well okay - if these are the goals, I'm fine - I'm a bit a latency/performance fanatic | 10:28 |
| tvoss | testi, fair enough, we all are :) we are working to put quite extensive benchmarking in place, too | 10:29 |
| tvoss | testi, for the ubuntu touch demos, we used highspeed cameras twice to check on our actual frame rate and responsiveness to input | 10:29 |
| === tvoss is now known as tvoss|food | ||
| testi | :-) | 10:33 |
| xnox | Can I run raring unity on mir on amd64? | 11:35 |
| xnox | If so, where and how? =) | 11:35 |
| alan_g | xnox: soon (I'm not sure of exact status - some packages were missing) | 11:40 |
| alf_ | xnox: You can run unity3d (i.e. the current unity) on X11 on xmir. We are in the process of setting up detailed instructions for that (and other things). | 11:40 |
| alan_g | xnox: And instructions | 11:40 |
| alan_g | alf_: snap | 11:40 |
| xnox | ok. I'm fine with early breakge and stuff. Cause i work on upstart usersessions, so I'd like to see if I can be monitoring / respawning mir with upstart user session support. | 11:41 |
| * xnox is running current ubuntu session like that, we are planning on merging and landing upstart1.7 soon. | 11:41 | |
| tvoss|food | xnox, you might want to talk to robert_ancell, too | 11:42 |
| tvoss|food | xnox, he is offline, currently | 11:42 |
| xnox | tvoss|food: is he usually in this channel? | 11:42 |
| * xnox ponders about pointing to "juju deploy znc" ;-) | 11:43 | |
| tvoss|food | xnox, yup | 11:50 |
| === tvoss|food is now known as tvoss | ||
| pete-woods1 | irc://irc.canonical.com:6697/#ubuntu-uds-client-2 | 13:47 |
| pete-woods1 | d'oh | 13:47 |
| pete-woods1 | :-$ | 13:47 |
| === pete-woods1 is now known as pete-woods | ||
| tvoss | pete-woods, :) | 13:56 |
| === wolfslord is now known as thiagoandrade | ||
| thiagoandrade | Following the instructions in HACKING.md I get errors in the command mk-build-deps and it simply states 'dpkg call error' | 15:25 |
| thiagoandrade | How should I proceed to build? | 15:26 |
| thiagoandrade | Ok, managed it. There was an error in the command. | 15:28 |
| alan_g | thiagoandrade: what was the error? | 15:29 |
| thiagoandrade | alan_g, I forgot a dash in the tool option | 15:32 |
| thiagoandrade | Just realized after. | 15:32 |
| alan_g | thiagoandrade: ok. Thanks | 15:32 |
| kdub | bumping to g++4.7! | 16:12 |
| kdub | alan_g, do you think i should doc the android stuff in HACKING.md or on the wiki? | 16:24 |
| kdub | i'm leaning towards HACKING.md | 16:24 |
| alan_g | kdub: Is there enough to be HACKING-android.md? | 16:25 |
| kdub | yeah, there is... i'll do that | 16:26 |
| alan_g | kdub: but I favour the source tree. (We should be getting the make doc output up on a webserver.) | 16:26 |
| bryce | kdub, principle documentation should ship with the code | 16:26 |
| kdub | yeah, i was just about to say... would be nice if the HACKING.md files ended up on a webpage | 16:27 |
| AlanBell | what kind of configurations will mir support? dual screen? multiple screens? orientation changes? different colour depth screens like an e-ink screen on the back of a regular screen etc? | 16:46 |
| bryce | AlanBell, long term, yes to all | 16:50 |
| bryce | last I checked a couple weeks ago, it does clone mode on dual-head ok (as set up by drm), but not hotplugging or anything fancy | 16:51 |
| bryce | the configuration dialog will probably be more minimal than the current one, but we expect to have some advanced settings tool. | 16:52 |
| mmrazik | thomi: we would need the output of make doc to appear on some public site for mir :) | 17:02 |
| mmrazik | thomi: so I thought you are the right person for it :) | 17:02 |
| thomi | mmrazik: good thing we now have a nice way to do that | 17:03 |
| thomi | mmrazik: will fil a bug & assign it to me so I don't forget | 17:03 |
| mmrazik | thomi: but we still need some special user on some server, etc, right? | 17:03 |
| mmrazik | thomi: cool | 17:03 |
| mmrazik | alan_g: ^^ | 17:03 |
| thomi | mmrazik: yeah - will talk to is | 17:03 |
| alan_g | alf_: ^^ | 17:03 |
| thomi | all: do you have any ideas about where you'd like it? | 17:04 |
| alf_ | alan_g: \o/ | 17:04 |
| thomi | perhaps somewhere on unity.ubuntu.com? | 17:04 |
| thomi | unity.ubuntu.com/mir/ ? | 17:04 |
| AlanBell | woot mir runs today \o/ | 17:05 |
| thomi | or rather: | 17:05 |
| thomi | unity.ubuntu.com/mir/api/ for the API docs | 17:05 |
| AlanBell | so, I have a green box with a scrolly bacteria or something in it | 17:05 |
| alan_g | thomi: works for me | 17:05 |
| thomi | sweetbix | 17:05 |
| AlanBell | how do I do something more interesting with it? | 17:05 |
| alf_ | thomi: the plan is to have the whole project site be part of the docs, so the information is always up to date, but we will see how that turns out | 17:07 |
| thomi | alf_: for autopilot, we just finished configuring it so the docs get uploaded at the end of the autolanding process | 17:08 |
| thomi | alf_: I assume something similar for mir would work well | 17:09 |
| alan_g | AlanBell: what are you interested in? At the moment mir is a body waiting for a brain (the unity shell) | 17:09 |
| alan_g | thomi: that would be great | 17:09 |
| alf_ | thomi: alan_g: Yes, it would work great. The question that needs answering on our side, is whether the docs will be used for the whole mir "site" or just for the API reference. | 17:10 |
| AlanBell | alan_g: dunno really, can I put a QML surface in it and poke about with phone apps? | 17:10 |
| thomi | alf_: right, that will determine if we want the /api/ suffix or not | 17:12 |
| thomi | alf_: I guess I can push them to .../api/ and we can always change it later | 17:12 |
| alf_ | thomi: sure | 17:12 |
| AlanBell | or can I implement windows 7 on it http://xkcd.com/528/ | 17:13 |
| alan_g | thomi: alf_ that's probably easiest. We'd need to pull content in to make it the main page. | 17:13 |
| thomi | ok, rt filed. | 17:16 |
| alf_ | alan_g: thomi: hmm, looking at unity.ubuntu.com, I don't think that the contents we want to put into mir/ will fit with the rest of the design. I am not sure how much of a problem this is. | 17:20 |
| thomi | alan_g: all those sections have a /api/ section as well | 17:21 |
| thomi | for example: | 17:21 |
| thomi | unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/api/ | 17:21 |
| kdub | AlanBell, thats a space station, not scrolly bacteria :) | 17:21 |
| alan_g | AlanBell: Sorry, trying to find someone that can advise on details | 17:21 |
| thomi | actually, that's a bad example, since we don't have a non-api section :) | 17:21 |
| thomi | alan_g: but you see what I mean, hopefully :) | 17:21 |
| AlanBell | kdub: ah, my scale was out slightly | 17:21 |
| kdub | AlanBell, phone demos on the desktop, a tricky to set up | 17:22 |
| kdub | not sure if anyone's done it yet | 17:22 |
| AlanBell | well, I am trying to do anything with it really | 17:22 |
| alf_ | thomi: yes, thanks, I was mostly concerned about the visual differences but it seems it's not a problem (e.g. http://unity.ubuntu.com/autopilot/ is very different too) | 17:22 |
| kdub | AlanBell, i live mostly in the world of android headaches, not sure what precisely is possible on desktop these days... | 17:23 |
| thomi | alf_: yeah. We can always move things around if we need | 17:24 |
| kdub | racarr might be able to advise how to get those qml demos going | 17:24 |
| alf_ | AlanBell: you need to get qmir from launchpad.net/qmir and build it (you need qt5) | 17:24 |
| alan_g | alf_: thomi there's quite a bit of tailoring we can do to L&F of doxygen output | 17:24 |
| thomi | yeah | 17:25 |
| alan_g | thomi: alf_ let's do the simplest thing (get what we have up) and iterate | 17:25 |
| thomi | agreed | 17:26 |
| AlanBell | alf_: oh, cool thanks | 17:26 |
| kdub | thanks alf_ | 17:26 |
| alf_ | AlanBell: then under mir you can run (m)any of the example qt5 applications by passing the "-platform mir" option to the qt app | 17:26 |
| alf_ | AlanBell: note: no input yet | 17:27 |
| AlanBell | ok, so I can't make the eyes flash on ctrl+alt+del :( | 17:27 |
| AlanBell | no readme or makefile or anything in the qmir branch | 17:29 |
| alf_ | AlanBell: unfortunately no, we are working on organizing the documentation as you may have noticed from the conversations here... | 17:31 |
| racarr | Met with Katie, nailing down focus concepts, "application focus" (for menu bar, launcher pips, etcs...) "window focus" and "stage focus" (input focus) | 17:54 |
| racarr | and "display focus" for shell components | 17:54 |
| racarr | very similar to how on the whiteboard in London but we wrote it down this time | 17:55 |
| === netcurli_ is now known as netcurli | ||
| === mmrazik_ is now known as mmrazik | ||
| FunnyLookinHat | Any talk regarding hybrid graphics with Mir? Last I checked we were on the goal-line with using the X Stack ( ideally for a 13.10 support of Optimus w/ Binary Blobs ) - | 18:58 |
| bryce | there won't be a 13.10. | 18:59 |
| bryce | FunnyLookinHat, I don't know what you mean by on the goal-line, but we decided not to pursue hybrid support on the X side, aside from whatever comes from upstream. There has been talk for how to support it in Mir, and the design accounts for multi-gpu / multi-head / multi-hotplugging situations | 19:00 |
| FunnyLookinHat | bryce, Right right - I meant looking forward before all of the RR talk. | 19:02 |
| FunnyLookinHat | bryce, but that answers my question ( i.e. accounting for multiple gpu / head / hotplug ) - thanks :) | 19:02 |
| UbuPhillup | Question: will I be able to run Virtualbox full screen in Mir? Will the input handling stop the HUD stealing my alt key? | 19:34 |
| bryce | UbuPhillup, virtualization came up at yesterday's Mir talk, although I don't think it got a detailed answer (I'm not sure I could articulate what the answer is, at least). | 19:37 |
| UbuPhillup | bryce: thanks i will watch at the talk | 19:39 |
| bryce | regarding input handling, well we're looking at an entirely different stack. But HUD behavior is going to be a shell thing, so that might not be a question for Mir as much. | 19:39 |
| bryce | there's a long list of input issues which I gather folks hope Mir can give us better solutions | 19:40 |
| UbuPhillup | ;) | 19:41 |
| thiagoandrade | I'm following the instructions under HACKING.md and when I run 'cmake ..' I get a message "Cannot enable coverage targets because neither lcov nor gcovr are found. Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!" | 19:50 |
| thiagoandrade | Is there any other dependency I should install that is not covered in that document? | 19:51 |
| AlanBell | are you on raring thiagoandrade? | 20:06 |
| thiagoandrade | AlanBell, no | 20:07 |
| thiagoandrade | I'm on 12.04 | 20:07 |
| * AlanBell is on raring, it worked eventually | 20:07 | |
| AlanBell | don't recall seeing that error message, but I had some problems which were my system's fault | 20:08 |
| AlanBell | is there going to be a new window manager to run in mir? | 20:10 |
| thiagoandrade | It's strange to me because there is a "Getting dependencies" step that didn't got all the dependencies. And there is nothing telling that I need to be on raring to make Mir work. | 20:10 |
| AlanBell | to do the window decoration, title bar, borders etc | 20:10 |
| AlanBell | thiagoandrade: I dunno, you might be fine on 12.04 if you install the patched mesa from today | 20:11 |
| AlanBell | but raring is fine, I have been using it daily for months (even with raring-proposed accidentally enabled) and it is fine | 20:12 |
| TheMuso | AlanBell: As far as I understand things at this point, the unity shell in combination with MIR will do window management... | 20:17 |
| TheMuso | Somewhat similar to how GNOME shell integrates with mutter to handle window management. | 20:17 |
| TheMuso | Although probably more integrated. | 20:17 |
| bryce | TheMuso, btw Mir should not be all-caps. (MIR might get confused with Main Inclusion Request). | 20:38 |
| TheMuso | bryce: Sorry, its party a typo,a dn party a habbit. | 20:39 |
| TheMuso | gah typing == bad. | 20:39 |
| TheMuso | Its partly a typo and partly a habbit. | 20:39 |
| bryce | habit? ;-) | 20:40 |
| TheMuso | Yeah, dunno why, but it is. Probably from having to deal with main inclusion reports. :) | 20:44 |
| TheMuso | And writing the shorthand for that. | 20:45 |
| thiagoandrade | robertcarr, What can I do to help you with in process EGL work item? | 23:36 |
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