[13:31] <janof> morning
[13:41] <balloons> howdy
[13:51] <balloons> anyone who wants to be in the hangout right away do let me know :-)
[13:51] <balloons> We've got room
[13:53] <janof> i do
[13:56] <philipballew> balloons, I can join
[13:57] <balloons> excellent
[13:57] <balloons> setting it up now
[13:57] <janof> awesome, thanks
[14:00] <balloons> anyone else wish to hop in?
[14:00] <janof> me
[14:01] <gema-uds> I cannot see who's in
[14:01] <gema-uds> balloons: call me if you need me, I sit on the back for now
[14:01] <smartboyhw> Hi
[14:01] <balloons> hello smartboyhw
[14:02] <txwikinger-uds> Anybody here?
[14:02] <jpickett> yup
[14:02]  * greatcthuhlu wakes from watery grave
[14:02] <cjohnston> mornin
[14:03] <theDoctor> morning everyone
[14:03] <gema_> o/
[14:03] <rickspencer3-uds> good morning all
[14:03] <txwikinger-uds> The hangout seems not be started yet?
[14:03] <gema_> txwikinger-uds: you need to reload
[14:03] <balloons> it's sytarted
[14:04] <ElderDryas> Maybe it would be a good thing for the track lead to let us know when the video starts, so we don't have to keep refreshing?
[14:04] <gema_> it has definitely started
[14:04] <txwikinger-uds> annoying to have to login all the time again
[14:04] <gema_> I am not sure there's a track lead on it, nick is broadcasting
[14:04] <smartboyhw> uh
[14:04] <gema_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e275reHE62M
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Can't see tue
[14:04] <smartboyhw> the videp
[14:04] <smartboyhw> anyway
[14:06] <jasnow> upstream - Debian
[14:06] <philipballew> interesting point jasnow
[14:08] <jasnow> I tried to triage the Rails bugs during Global Jam last weekend but had hard time to learn specific processes/terms
[14:08] <gema_> aren't loco communities contributing already?
[14:08] <gema_> QUESTION: ^
[14:08] <commandoline_> It's not that easy for LoCo's where English isn't the native language, I think. You need to contact the right people that can spread it inside the loco
[14:10] <gema_> what happens when tests fail? they still need to raise bugs
[14:10] <txwikinger-uds> It is a misunderstading to think hat testing by amateurs is veryeffective
[14:10] <gema_> txwikinger-uds: agreed
[14:10] <gema_> balloons: can you share the link to the hangout?
[14:10] <jasnow> please add name in lower third
[14:11] <ElderDryas> and nick
[14:13] <txwikinger-uds> 95% of te LUG memberss here are male
[14:13] <txwikinger-uds> Agreed gema_
[14:14] <txwikinger-uds> Same as their are skils for development ... their are skills for testing
[14:14] <txwikinger-uds> their->there
[14:15] <thomi> QUESTION: I think it's important to identify a range of roles, and clearly identify which skills each role requires. THis is something the KDE project used to do very well. I don't currently know if this is documented abywhere?
[14:15]  * thomi looks for the old KDE documentaton
[14:17] <thomi> hmm, it seems to have gone downhill, but something like this: http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute
[14:17] <balloons> interesting thom
[14:17] <balloons> *thomim
[14:18] <thomi> gema_: I think tests need to be written in coordination with upstream projects, where possible. Otherwise, it's too easy to write a test that doesn't actually test what you want
[14:19] <txwikinger-uds> I have stopped filing automatic bugs since most of the time they are duplicates
[14:20] <txwikinger-uds> Never got acconplishmebts working on my machine... given I gave up quite a time ago
[14:21] <jasnow> manual vs. automated tester?
[14:21] <thomi> balloons: maybe 'role' is the wrong word... makes it sound too much like a job....
[14:21] <gema_> thomi: profile?
[14:22] <thomi> gema_: ++
[14:22] <thomi> yep
[14:23] <phillw> txwikinger-uds: it is still useful to file the automated bugs as it updates the database for 'how hot' a bug is.
[14:23] <thomi> balloons: I was thinking more along the lines of: if I'm new to Ubuntu, and I want to help the quality team, where do I go to see what I can do?
[14:23] <janof> how do you get the name at the bottom of screen ?
[14:24] <balloons> anyone who wishes to join in the hangout.. speak up :-0
[14:24] <txwikinger> phillw: Sorry... having to work for living, I do not have the time for things that 95% of the time are not used
[14:24] <phillw> I though it was updated as part of the daisy database?
[14:24] <balloons> janof, use lower third.. in the hangout toolbox
[14:24] <philipballew> anyone know numbers these days?
[14:26] <txwikinger-uds> You have to define community... if you say "everybody that uses Ubuntu" --- only a small percentage will be willing to contribute
[14:27] <balloons> txwikinger, what do you mean?
[14:28] <balloons> thomi, this is a start on: https://qa.ubuntu.com/getting-involved/
[14:28] <thomi> philipballew: I suspect that for many/most people, it's a percieved problem, rather than an actual one?
[14:28] <SergioMeneses> am I late?
[14:28] <SergioMeneses> jeje
[14:28] <SergioMeneses> morning!
[14:28] <txwikinger-uds> I know  more people I was able to convince to use Ubuntu than people that were willing to go the next step and contribute
[14:29] <cprofitt> I think one of the critical things about attracting new users is making sure that 'new' contributors understand that running the development version is important
[14:29] <cprofitt> those 'bugs' are the ones that are going to be more likely to be fixed
[14:29] <airurando_uds> If the bar is lowered your potential contributor base increases dramatically.
[14:29] <SergioMeneses> cprofitt, ++
[14:30] <cprofitt> I have to run to a meeting soon, but will you be discusing what the change from checkbox to plainbox is going to have on testing?
[14:30] <balloons> cprofitt, now I'll point people to your session
[14:30] <cprofitt> thanks balloons
[14:31] <cprofitt> will plainbox answer Gema's concern about checkbox?
[14:32] <gema_> cprofitt: what is plainbox?
[14:32] <cprofitt> gema_: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21607/client-1303-new-checkbox-core-plainbox/
[14:32] <cjohnston> balloons: the translations team could help with translating it to other language, so that we could get testing from non-english speakers
[14:32] <thomi> there's no point translating checkbox tests if you don't think they're any good.
[14:33] <cprofitt> not really sure what plainbox is...
[14:33] <cjohnston> thomi: true, but it could be improved
[14:33] <thomi> cjohnston: yup, but every time you change the english text you need to re-translate, so make them good *first*, then translate them to different languages...
[14:33] <cjohnston> correct
[14:33] <cprofitt> there are also issues, I think, with checkbox failing tests even though the computers is ok
[14:34] <cprofitt> I would prefer that tests be resumable as well
[14:34] <cprofitt> there is a Ubuntu Friendly one later today
[14:34] <cprofitt> thanks balloons
[14:34] <cprofitt> the easiest tests I have done are the ISO tests
[14:35] <jasnow> Partner with http://weekendtesting.com/
[14:35] <cjohnston> Who is the random guy on the hangout without a name? just curious
[14:36] <cprofitt> could there be a 'list of tests' that people could download
[14:36] <bladernr> On the other hand, everyone who uses checkbox is free to file bugs requesting improvements to the tests...
[14:36] <cprofitt> based on them knowing what their hardware is?
[14:37] <balloons> cjohnston, Nathan
[14:37] <cprofitt> ubuntu accomplishments require the server to be able to verify the test was run
[14:37] <cjohnston> +1 for philipballew
[14:37] <cjohnston> balloons: ty
[14:37] <balloons> jasnow, ohh.. interesting
[14:37] <balloons> have you used it?
[14:38] <gema_> balloons: 55
[14:38] <jasnow> until 14:55
[14:38] <thomi> philipballew: but that's still better than them not contributing at all, right?
[14:38] <cprofitt> philipballew: having them do one test and not liking it is better than them never having known that was an opportunity
[14:39] <cjohnston> philipballew: 1 test is better than none
[14:39] <cprofitt> it is a good idea to expose people to the process
[14:39] <thomi> heh :)
[14:39] <jasnow> Is "Quality" defined as only "testing"?
[14:39] <thomi> IRC is united!
[14:39] <balloons> jasnow, not necessarily
[14:39] <txwikinger-uds> You will only get an inflation of rewards.. otherwise it does not work
[14:40] <diwic> or produce better code in the first place
[14:41] <txwikinger-uds> TDD
[14:41] <diwic> education? practice?
[14:41] <roadmr> adding tests to existing projects is hard
[14:41] <roadmr> but it's doable if you somehow show them the benefit
[14:42] <roadmr> the leap from "ok, made a change, now let's click around the project to see how it works" to "made a change, ran a script, stuff auto-tested, ftw" is huge
[14:42] <roadmr> I think the biggest gap is in existing projects, as new ones are more likely to be designed with testability in mind
[14:43] <txwikinger-uds> just writing some tests does not do it ... the also need to be maintained hence tests need to be integrated in the development process in the first place
[14:43] <jasnow> Example from another community: http://secretmustache.com/2013/03/mozillians-a-big-thank-you.html
[14:43] <roadmr> txwikinger-uds: agreed, that's why it needs to be an integral sales pitch, not just "add tests to your code *now* and you're done"
[14:43] <thomi> gema_: speaking as an "upstream" developer, I welcome any & all well written tests. *especially* if it finds a regression in my code :)
[14:44] <gema_> thomi: that sounds good :D
[14:44] <gema_> thomi: but you are a QA oriented upstream :)
[14:44] <thomi> gema_: yeah... true.
[14:44] <jasnow> Do you have a CI server to run your automated tests?
[14:44] <txwikinger-uds> rolling releases will only work with Agile practices and TDD
[14:44] <thomi> gema_: I still think most developers in OSS welcome contributions
[14:45] <commandoline_> thomi: +1
[14:46] <thomi> balloons: yes, exactly. We need to not waste this opportunity.
[14:48] <diwic> would a good idea be to approach upstreams with things such as "you know, you got five bad reviews in USC because your app crash when you do foo"
[14:48] <diwic> or launchpad bugs with a lot of people affected
[14:49] <diwic> etc
[14:49] <commandoline_> diwic: I don't think so. Contributing tests to fix it is positive, just saying it is negative I think.
[14:49] <diwic> commandoline_, well, you need to say it in the right way of course
[14:50] <commandoline_> diwic: if done carefully, it can be helpful, yes :)
[14:50] <diwic> commandoline_, I'm just elaborating on the is quality == testing topic, and one indication of quality in broader terms is what people complain about in launchpad and USC
[14:51] <diwic> commandoline_, you can also approach upstream and relay a thanks from the users as given on USC reviews
[14:52] <commandoline_> diwic: ok, I agree that passing the info on is useful for the upstreams. Just reacted in the first place because it sounded a bit harsh then.
[14:52] <diwic> commandoline_, to balance the negative
[14:52] <SergioMeneses> you can put it as TODO
[14:53] <diwic> commandoline_, certainly.
[14:55] <jasnow> yes
[14:55] <thomi> o/
[14:55] <SergioMeneses> bye
[14:55] <quesh> bye
[14:56] <dragonfly> hi
[14:57] <jpickett> hi dragonfly
[14:58] <dholbach> who else wants to be part of this hangout?
[14:58] <cm-t_phone> hi... h
[14:58] <freeflying> dholbach: I want try, but not sure if it works here
[14:59] <dragonfly> so what is going on
[14:59] <cm-t_phone> i had issu with connexion.. wanted to ask about checkbox (cf pad)
[15:02] <freeflying> ypwong: hi
[15:02]  * slangasek waves
[15:02] <xnox> dholbach: I am here on irc only. All kylin patches for ubiquity have been merged. We still didn't work out how to provide/presseed default timezone / skip that step. That's it from my side.
[15:03] <xnox> not sure about other packages.
[15:03] <xnox> if there is / isn't something outstanding.
[15:03] <dholbach> xnox, Ok - I'll add it to the notes as an agenda item
[15:04] <adam8157> no youtube live?
[15:04] <slangasek> adam8157: there is; refresh the page?
[15:05] <SergioMeneses> sure!
[15:05] <adam8157> oh, I see ypwong  :)
[15:06] <slangasek> ypwong: audio still seems very choppy; could you turn down the bandwidth setting on your side?
[15:06] <paulliu> Is there bandwidth problem?
[15:07] <adam8157> google hangout is blocked in China, and vpn is not very stable, sigh
[15:09] <dholbach> ypwong, maybe you can check the hangout settings to use something like "low bandwidth settings"?
[15:10] <slangasek> dholbach: well, as ypwong has just fallen off IRC, perhaps you can repeat this suggestion to him on the hangout :)
[15:12] <slangasek> dholbach: it's the slider that looks like a cell phone signal strength indicator
[15:12] <dholbach> slangasek, ah great
[15:13] <dholbach> ypwong, how can we help? :)
[15:14] <ypwong> ok
[15:14] <paulliu> dholbach: He said you dropped.
[15:14] <ypwong> it's slow
[15:14] <slangasek> ypwong: if you turn down your bandwidth setting in the hangout client, it should be better for you
[15:14] <dholbach> so you said you have a design and a website - what are the next steps - how can we help?
[15:14] <ypwong> slangasek, how to do that?
[15:14] <slangasek> ypwong: the "cell phone signal strength indicator" looking thing
[15:14] <freeflyi1g> ypwong: upper right
[15:15] <dholbach> see the button on http://vsee.com/blog/google-hangouts-low-bandwith-video-chat/
[15:16] <dholbach> as slangasek said like a cellphone signal indicator
[15:17] <jzheng> ypwong, what the help need?
[15:18] <dholbach> anyone else who can explain what needs to be done in terms of the website?
[15:18] <dholbach> or the forums?
[15:18] <jzheng> dholbach, I am asking ypwong
[15:18] <dholbach> I'm happy to put you in touch with the LoCo Community who help set up website/forums/mailing lists and all kinds of things
[15:18] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: I guess partly they wanna share the experience about build the community, and also wanna get some feedback/comments
[15:18] <dholbach> many other teams have their infrastructure set up through them
[15:19] <dholbach> freeflyi1g, I don't know - would it help if the two of us would try to go through the agenda?
[15:19] <dholbach> the hangout problems make this discussion a bit hard
[15:19] <ypwong> dholbach, jonaszhang is typing
[15:19] <dholbach> but I'd like to help out and adresse a few of them
[15:19] <JackYu> hi
[15:19] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: maybe we can switch to irc
[15:20] <KylinJonas>  so can you give us some advice about the layout of the forum?
 i think the sections of the forum of UbuntuKylin should reflect concerns of Chinese users.
[15:21] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: I can try
[15:21] <dholbach> freeflyi1g, cool
[15:23] <JackYu> yes, maybe the community should both reflect the concerns of Chinese users and the Ubuntu style.
[15:25] <dholbach> JackYu, yes - maybe we have other chinese forums, or even ubuntu related chinese forums we could look at?
[15:26] <JackYu> yes, I agree.
[15:26] <dholbach> great
[15:27] <maclin> maybe, firstly we need to setup seperate section in other chinese forum for ubuntukylin?
[15:28] <KylinJonas> because culture difference and language issue, it is a little difficult for Chinese beginner to start to contribute, so we want translate some manuals and guide about Ubuntu and Launchpad
[15:31] <dholbach> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
[15:31] <dholbach> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/
[15:32] <SergioMeneses> dholbach, and we have videos in others languages as well
[15:32] <raywang> if ubuntukylin is for computer beginners, I wonder if it's worth of having a investigation to see what's the barriers,  e.g.   online banking, integration of online e-shopping payment plugins   etc etc
[15:36] <KylinJonas> yes, we have discuss the possibility of online banking, in spite of technique it need government certification.
[15:36] <JackYu> yes, an investigation is required.
[15:39] <maclin> Will the coming release schedule point be kept,such as the  beta1release in 14th March ?
[15:41] <KylinJonas> no matter ubuntu release change to rolling or not, ubuntukylin will release its 13.04
[15:41] <slangasek> so, there's nothing in the proposed rolling release change that would prevent having a beta release
[15:43] <JackYu> ok , thank you
[15:43] <raywang> thanks dholbach
[15:43] <maclin> ok,thanks  slangasek
[15:43] <dholbach> :)
[15:44] <dholbach> and please give me your email addresses :)
[15:44] <slangasek> 谢谢，大家 ：）
[15:45] <dholbach> raywang, KylinJonas, JackYu, ypwong: do you want to be part of the discussions as well? can you give me your email addresses in a private message too?
[15:46] <raywang> dholbach, no, that's fine :)
[15:46] <dholbach> raywang, ok :)
[15:47] <KylinJonas> dholbach, jonaszhang@ubuntukylin.com
[15:47] <dholbach> thanks KylinJonas
[15:53] <dholbach> who wants to be part of this discussion? happy to give you the link
[15:54] <JackYu> Jack Yu
[15:54] <maclin> maclin
[15:55] <dholbach> we still have 5 minutes :)
[15:56] <dholbach> freeflyi1g, can you or somebody else lead this discussion? I'm not going to be of any help here
[15:56] <dholbach> I have no ideas about input methods :-(
[15:57] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: sure, don't worry :)
[15:57] <dholbach> GunnarHj, do you want to be invited to the hangout too?
[15:57] <GunnarHj> dholbach: Not needed, I think. Can just as well contribute here.
[15:58] <dholbach> just wanted to make sure we have everybody in the hangout who wants to participate
[15:58] <dholbach> we still have lots of open slots :)
[15:58] <maclin> the network is not so good
[15:58] <dholbach> maybe it helps to turn off the video
[15:58] <dholbach> I had to do it before when the network was bad - it sometimes helped
[15:59] <JackYu> yes, i turn off
[16:00] <dholbach> does the session video work for everyone? GunnarHj maybe?
[16:01] <GunnarHj> Works fine for me.
[16:01] <dholbach> perfect
[16:01] <dholbach> thanks
[16:01] <dholbach> or as slangasek said earlier "谢谢" :)
[16:02] <jzheng> ypwong, the sound still works bad
[16:02] <jzheng> ypwong, we can hear lots of voice from your side
[16:03] <dholbach> can anyone else maybe start the session?
[16:03] <dholbach> I'm happy to read out the notes on the pad
[16:03] <jzheng> ypwong, JackYu, KylinJonas, maybe mute yourself and unmute to speak?
[16:03] <dholbach> but I'm not sure how much help that's going to be :)
[16:03] <JackYu> sure
[16:03] <ypwong> jzheng, yes we're already doing that
[16:07] <GunnarHj> The choice between ibus and fcitx is probably not so important in 13.04. In 13.04 we will use im-config as an IM configuration tool, and the user can select among installed IM frameworks from Language Support.
[16:07] <GunnarHj> Going forward may be more complicated due to the GNOME integration of xkb and IM.
[16:07] <SergioMeneses>  there is a delay or something
[16:08] <jzheng> GunnarHj, I think we are not going with GNOME anymore :)
[16:08] <GunnarHj> jzheng: What??
[16:08] <jzheng> GunnarHj, Mir and Unity Next
[16:08] <GunnarHj> jzheng: Ok...
[16:08] <jzheng> GunnarHj, :)
[16:10] <KylinJonas> in the future ubuntu will use mir as display server, but user must wait until 14.04 at least
[16:12] <GunnarHj> language-selector contains an IM framework selector. As long as fcitx is installed, that option will appear and can be selected.
[16:14] <dholbach> do we have a good contact to the upstream developers of fcitx?
[16:15] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: yes, and also well maintained in Debian/Ubuntu
[16:15] <dholbach> it's just a general question - something we generally consider when making a package default
[16:15] <dholbach> perfect
[16:15] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx also looks like there's really few bugs
[16:15] <dholbach> not sure if that says much, just thought I'd point it out
[16:16] <GunnarHj> We should be aware of that ibus has been shipped for many cycles by default - fcitx has not.
[16:16] <freeflyi1g> dholbach: noted
[16:16] <freeflyi1g> GunnarHj: good point
[16:18] <JackYu> yes, as we described at the blueprint, Kubuntu team is also doing the evaluation on ibus vs. fcitx
[16:18] <dholbach> any more questions? concerns? ideas?
[16:18] <dholbach> is this something which should be generally considered for Ubuntu? have their been requests to replace the default in Ubuntu?
[16:18] <JackYu> but no conclusion could be found.
[16:19] <paulliu> how about Japanese/Korean?
[16:19] <JackYu> dholbach: yes, when we apply the flavor, some TB members ask the same question.
[16:20] <GunnarHj> How about shipping both ibus and fxitx? (One can be the default, of course.)
[16:20] <freeflyi1g> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5590776/
[16:20] <JackYu> paulliu: UbuntuKylin mainly consider
[16:20] <JackYu> Chinese input
[16:21] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: through m17n, a lot of language can be supported, and also IME like anthy has been ported to fcitx also
[16:21] <paulliu> JackYu: Yeah.. I cound understand. But the question is why Kubuntu team is consindering fcitx replacing ibus?
[16:21] <JackYu> yes. I am also wondering...
[16:21] <paulliu> freeflyi1g: no anthy..
[16:21] <GunnarHj> As far as I know, im-config is capable of handling it without conflicts.
[16:22] <JackYu>  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-kubuntu-development
[16:22] <maclin> maybe fcitx provide good support for KDE
[16:23] <JackYu> GunnarHj: that's great
[16:23] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: https://code.google.com/p/fcitx/ FYI, a lot of ime has been ported
[16:23] <maclin> it also provide some KDE configuration interface
[16:23] <Riddell> we're going with ibus for raring
[16:23] <Riddell> in Kubuntu ⇈
[16:23] <paulliu> JackYu: ok.. I heard.
[16:23] <Riddell> but we did look at fcitx for the reasons mentioned
[16:24] <JackYu> Riddell: so you decision is ibus?
[16:25] <Riddell> JackYu: yes, a chap called Quintasan investiagted and decided on that
[16:25] <Riddell> it's what the rest of ubuntu uses
[16:25] <Riddell> and works with Korean and Japaese
[16:25] <Riddell> and since he got ibus working fine with KDE Plasma no reason to change
[16:25] <freeflyi1g> theming support is also another advantage over ibus
[16:26] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: even with native kcm-comfig tool support? :D
[16:26] <Riddell> [00:10] <Quintasan> Generally ibus has poor integration
[16:26] <Riddell> [00:11] <Quintasan> Fcitx has better KDE integration but the version Debian has is not feature complete yet
[16:27] <dholbach> Riddell, do we know which feature is missing or if there's a bug open about it?
[16:27] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: this is not true  kde-config-fcitx - KDE configuration module for Fcitx
[16:27] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: which is not true?
[16:27] <freeflyi1g> 00:26 < Riddell> [00:11] <Quintasan> Fcitx has better KDE integration but the version Debian has is not feature complete ye
[16:27] <Riddell> oh debian not feature complete yet
[16:27] <GunnarHj> The standard Ubuntu distro will also go for ibus in 13.04, AFAIK.
[16:27] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: I don't think there is any ibus config in KDE
[16:28] <Riddell> so fcitx wins there
[16:28] <Riddell> but as long as installing the language pack sets it up then you're good
[16:28] <JackYu> Riddell: did you investigate the newest version of fctix?
[16:28] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: defintely, and ibus still has a lot of python code, performance lose there too
[16:28] <maclin> fcitx has updated to latest version now in 13.04 sources
[16:29] <Riddell> JackYu: I don't know what version he looked at, was about a month ago
[16:29] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: its very worth to give it a try in kubuntu too
[16:30] <Riddell> freeflyi1g: what about the poor Koreans and Japanese?
[16:30] <JackYu> Riddell: got it. so maybe we could discuss further with Quintasan.
[16:31] <Riddell> JackYu: he's around lots in #kubuntu-devel (just not today alas)
[16:31] <dholbach> would it make sense to switch to fcitx in ubuntu kylin for now and then see what the feedback is like when you ask for people to test it some time before the release?
[16:31] <dholbach> and make the kubuntu discussion a separate thing?
[16:31] <GunnarHj> I'm not an IM user, but I can't help thinking that shipping both and make them easily available to the Chinese users ought to be a good idea.
[16:31] <ypwong> dholbach, +1
[16:32] <Riddell> GunnarHj: that's not very ubuntu
[16:32] <JackYu> Riddell: thanks. Would you please give his email address via private channel?
[16:32] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: upstream has them in place
[16:32] <GunnarHj> Riddell: Let's make it ubuntu, then. ;-)
[16:33] <jzheng> just for your reference, fcitx has anthy which is for Japanese, see https://github.com/fcitx/fcitx-anthy
[16:33] <maclin> dholbach, we have tested fcitx 4.2.6 and it worked well for users
[16:33] <ypwong> Riddell, then probably to ship fcitx and if user wants they can always install with apt-get
[16:33] <freeflyi1g> Riddell: btw, not trying to convince you to adopt it, just wanna let it you know the status
[16:33] <KylinJonas> I think that shipping both is the best solution to this topic.
[16:33] <dholbach> are there any open questions? is fcitx the default in ubuntu kylin already?
[16:34] <ypwong> dholbach, guess this is the decision? KylinJonas, JackYu?
[16:34] <freeflyi1g> fcitx-anthy-0.1.1.tar.xz fcitx-chewing-0.1.3.tar.xz
[16:34] <KylinJonas> ubuntukylin want to take fcitx as default
[16:35] <GunnarHj> KylinJonas: Make fcitx default is compatible with shipping both.
[16:36] <KylinJonas> yes, let user decide which to use, i think
[16:36] <Riddell> let user decide is very un-ubuntu
[16:36] <maclin> dholbach: yes, we are also make more test to evaluate the effect of fcitx
[16:36] <paulliu> Qt Immodule supports so anything using Qt would have less problems..
[16:37] <JackYu> Riddell: ....
[16:37] <paulliu> For phones, the problem is the onscreen keyboard have to talk to either input-method framework. Or you only get English onscreen keyboard.
[16:38] <paulliu> I have no detailed actually.
[16:38] <ypwong> paulliu, so any work about that you're aware of now?
[16:38] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: fcitx has a virt keyboard
[16:38] <ypwong> ok :)
[16:41] <KylinJonas> thank you very much! I think time is the best judger : )
[16:42] <GunnarHj> Thanks all!
[16:42] <JackYu> Thanks!
[16:42] <freeflyi1g> paulliu: https://github.com/fcitx/developer-handbook you may share this with the guy you mentioned
[16:44] <maclin> thanks
[18:12] <dholbach> ok, updated the page - those of you who marked yourselves as "participation essential" should have a link to "join the hangout"
[18:12] <dholbach> (you might have to reload)
[18:12] <dholbach> I can give you the hangout links as well too if you like
[18:26] <jasnow_> here is info from Debian project: http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2013/05/index.en.html#gsoc
[18:31] <jasnow_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2012
[18:32] <jasnow_> http://wiki.opencog.org/w/GSoC_2012:_Packages_for_Ubuntu_(and_other_Unix-like_systems)_and_Cygwin_port
[18:36] <dholbach> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
[18:36] <jasnow_> See last url for timeline
[18:37] <jasnow_> March 28 is org dealine
[18:37] <jasnow_> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
[18:37] <jasnow_> is the timeline
[18:50] <nxvl> or even with the little experience they have the sign up for a proyect bigger that they can handle
[18:50] <nxvl> as in even pitti won't be able to do it in one summer
[18:51] <philipballew> good point nxvl
[18:51] <nxvl> or even mentors first
[18:51] <nxvl> that's how the google summer of code does it
[18:52] <nxvl> they have mentors that propose projects and THEN they accept students proposals
[18:52] <nxvl> We can make LoCo's sign up for going to the universities and get people
[18:52] <nxvl> that should work
[18:52] <nxvl> we have a worldwide force that we can use for this
[18:53] <nxvl> and have a LoCo universities tour going here and there asing for students to sign up
[18:53] <nxvl> dholbach: just let me into the hangout
[18:53] <philipballew> thats actually pretty impressive nxvl
[19:01] <fisch246> i can see
[19:01] <theDoctor> I can see you
[19:02] <matzipan_> i can't :/
[19:02] <netcurli> hello
[19:02] <fisch246> o/ jono
[19:02] <netcurli> I can also see you
[19:02] <theDoctor> Yes it is
[19:02] <netcurli> :D
[19:02] <ptl> YAY! Will we finally get a response from the Phoronix guys about wayland non-downsides???
[19:03] <ptl> this meeting has super cow powers!
[19:03] <bobthebobber> invite please
[19:04] <snwh> QUESTION: do you think virtual-UDS went well? :)
[19:04] <jasnow> what is the relationship between Ubuntu and Rails (Ruby-on-Rails) project?
[19:04] <matzipan_> snwh: i think it went glorious
[19:04] <snwh> matzipan_ I agree
[19:04]  * popey tickles d0od|UDS 
[19:05] <zebaszp> jono!
[19:05] <UbuPhillup> hi
[19:05] <matzipan_> but it's not UDS anymore, it's just a meeting
[19:05] <matzipan_> so it should be UDM
[19:05] <zebaszp> I came to this room with one specific purpose: asking if jono will play the guitar
[19:06] <matzipan_> and keep UDS as a real summit at LTS maybe?
[19:06] <jono> get your questions in :-)
[19:06] <jono> add them with QUESTION:
[19:06] <jono> and then we can pick them out
[19:06] <nxvl> rickspencer3: mumble
[19:07] <zebaszp> jono, I'm not watching the stream, I'm at client-1, but I wanted to know if you'll play the guitar :P
[19:07] <zebaszp> just answer yes or now in the chatroom and I'll be on my way :P
[19:07] <niemeyer> Oh yeah.. woohay videos
[19:08] <bobthebobber> Question: some vids of todays UDS videos are now listed as private only.
[19:08] <bobthebobber> is this intended?
[19:08] <matzipan_> QUESTION: virtual UDS enabled me to get a more interesting view of Ubuntu and I want to start contributing, how should I start doing that?
[19:08]  * AlanBell observes that jcastro does not have his IRC nick in the lower third
[19:08] <niemeyer> jcastro: Plenaries are the golden case for On Air G+
[19:08] <bobthebobber> matzipan_: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved
[19:09] <bobthebobber> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21672/community-1303-quality-growth/
[19:09] <bobthebobber> the video is now removed
[19:09] <d0od|UDS> Is this a general Q&A or UDs-specific?
[19:09] <jcastro> bobthebobber: that was your session right? the quality growth one? Can you check the perms on your video?
[19:09] <popey> bobthebobber: sometimes the videos had to be restarted
[19:09] <ptl> QUESTION: in the phoronix response to canonical, they said the two supposed downsides of wayland (input handling/routing and "priviledged" shell) are simply untrue. Will Canonical have further debates with them? If other distros adopt wayland, how do you think you can maintain compatibility with differing Linux desktop strategies?
[19:10] <jcastro> bobthebobber: sorry I meant balloons not you
[19:10] <bobthebobber> jcastro: no problem
[19:10] <popey> so possibly the one linked from summit is the broken video, but there may be another
[19:10] <balloons> jcastro, ?
[19:10] <Lennart__> QUESTION: What is the deal with MIR and Ubuntu moving away from Wayland?
[19:10] <niemeyer> Question: Why are you sad, Jono!?  What can we do for you?  You're our rock!  Don't be sad!
[19:10] <jcastro> balloons: the video for community-1303-quality-growth/
[19:10] <popey> balloons: see what bobthebobber said
[19:11] <balloons> jcastro, ahh.. I'll fix
[19:11] <gaara> I've been working on NFC on android quite a bit, any idea who i could be of use to Ubuntu?
[19:11] <airurando> QUESTION: What is the likely timeframe for a decision regarding the rolling release?
[19:12] <pgraner> jono, also check the pad
[19:12] <balloons> kk.. fixed
[19:12] <balloons> sorry bobthebobber jcastro .. thanks for noticing
[19:12] <bobthebobber> Question: What is the status and bug #1
[19:12] <udsbotu> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
[19:12] <pgraner> jono, below the coew
[19:12] <pgraner> cow
[19:12] <dpm-desktop_> o/
[19:12] <nxvl> QUESTION: are you going to shave that beard soon?
[19:13] <zorman2000> QUESTION: I would like to know your personal opinion of Canonical writing a new DS rather than adopting Wayland. I have seen lots of opinions about this, and would like to know your own, as the community manager of Ubuntu.
[19:13] <AlanBell> QUESTION: how do big transitions happen in rolling releases?
[19:13] <jcastro> (stand by on the Mir questions guys, the Mir guy is on his way!)
[19:13] <dpm-desktop_> yes, he's gone
[19:13] <gaara> hes gone
[19:14] <dpm-desktop_> Thomas kicked him I think :)
[19:14] <bobthebobber> AlanBell: im guessing they dont, RR would be daily and monthly builds
[19:14] <theDoctor> It's a back screen where he was
[19:14] <Lennart__> why does he leave, when it gets interesting? *grml*
[19:14] <AlanBell> QUESTION: When are wobbly windows going to be available in Mir?
[19:15] <d0od|UDS> AlanBell: EXCELLENT QUESTION SIR
[19:15] <d0od|UDS> :P
[19:15] <zorman2000> AlanBell, funny, but valid question
[19:15] <jcastro> AlanBell: don't worry, all the unmaintained compiz plugins will likely still continue to be unmaintained. :)
[19:15] <niemeyer> AlanBell: Wobbly Windows needs a VM to run in Ubuntu
[19:16] <AlanBell> yeah, I kind of want to know about the bling plan for mir
[19:16] <fisch246> rickspencer3: o/ welcome back
[19:16] <rickspencer3_> thanks fisch246
[19:16] <rickspencer3_> I guess my internet provider didn't want to hear what I had to say ;)
[19:16] <AlanBell> QUESTION: will I be able to run Virtualbox full screen in Mir? Will the input handling stop the HUD stealing my alt key?
[19:17] <zorman2000> AlanBell: I guess, from what I have read, that their bling plans are not on Mir, but on Unity. Mir is just a huge foundation for Unity to do whatever they want it to do.
[19:17] <UbuPhillup> Deutschland ;)
[19:17] <AlanBell> QUESTION: Do you think these technology introductions are having a net positive effect on commuity size?
[19:18] <ptl> tvoss: thank you very much for the comprehensive answer!
[19:19] <d0od|UDS> QUESTION: There seems to be a growing unease with the 'inner' Ubuntu Community about recent changes and decisions (membership reneges, vocal criticisms on planet, etc). What is your response as community manager to the claim that 'the ubuntu community' has irreparably changed?
[19:20] <dylan-m> QUESTION: Are Unity and Ubuntu Touch ready for _large_ contributions from community members who don't work for Canonical? For example, I am wondering about the feasibility of a (~three month) gsoc project with Unity or its friends.
[19:20] <niemeyer> I knew it..
[19:20] <niemeyer> rickspencer3: ;)
[19:21] <ptl> QUESTION: there was a release of Ubuntu (desktop) for Nexus 7 last year (that I used) and now there is Ubuntu Touch, something completely different. Will desktop Ubuntu on the Nexus 7 continue to be developed, or can it be considered abandoned?
[19:22] <johangm90> hi
[19:22] <AlanBell> QUESTION: will 13.04 be released?
[19:22] <UbuPhillup> QUESTION :Have Canonical enough man power to do all these: Mir, phone ...
[19:22] <theDoctor> QUESTION: Do you do these Q and A's the same time every week?
[19:22] <gaara> QUESTION: Is anyone working on the NFC framework of the OS? I've worked extensively on NFC on android but i'd like to see where i can help in Ubuntu Touch
[19:23] <jcastro> gaara: oooh.
[19:24] <jcastro> gaara: you might want to find rsalveti on #ubuntu-touch
[19:24] <gaara> thanks jcastro
[19:24] <krabador> Question: many web sources, immediately after the ubuntu-touch release of the images, reported that "canonical works with xda community" only because some simply xda user released some port of ubuntu-touch following the porting guide on the wiki. There are some plan of real collaborations between communities for ubuntu-touch ?
[19:25] <fisch246> rickspencer3: can you get back to my question? the one you were about to answer, but was dropped beforehand.
[19:25] <jcastro> krabador: heya were you here yesterday when we had one of the XDA developers in a plenary?
[19:25] <rickspencer3> fisch246, that Mir one?
[19:25] <FlyingPig> QUESTION: Whats the best way to deal with stupid people constantly bashing Ubuntu, critizining everything that Canonical does and wishing Ubuntu/Canonical to die?
[19:25] <fisch246> rickspencer3: yup
[19:25] <rickspencer3> fisch246, can you ask it again? I kinda thought tvoss answered it better, but I'm happy to take another crack at it
[19:26] <krabador> jcastro, not... i wan't here ...
[19:26] <fisch246> rickspencer3: "How will the rolling releases mean to the production of Mir?"
[19:26] <Lennart__> QUESTION: In what way didn't Wayland fit your requirements and why can't you contribute to Wayland to make it fit your needs?
[19:26] <rickspencer3> gotcha
[19:26] <krabador> jcastro, where i can whatch the stream you said ?
[19:27] <jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/meeting/21671/cloud-keynote-with-robbie-williamson/
[19:27] <jcastro> 15 minutes in or so
[19:27] <krabador> jcastro, thanx
[19:27] <ptl> Lennart__: tvoss explained it a few minutes earlier
[19:27] <d0od|UDS> QUESTION: Has Canonical already begun discussions with GPU vendors on supporting Mir?
[19:27] <ptl> Lennart__: when answering my question..
[19:29] <pgraner> rickspencer3, don't forget the autopkg tests as well in -proposed
[19:31] <pgraner> Existing autopkg test coverage: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/
[19:37] <Jim99> Jono, are apps such as Twitter and FaceCrook removable from Ubuntu touch?
[19:41] <ptl> jono: thanks!
[19:42] <niemeyer> Knowing what was going behind the scene, I have to say I can't see much to sweat about regarding mir. It's a tricky project, and some people were trying to figure things out.. the decision to take it more seriously was made *now*, and that's why an announcement was made and why the plan is being opened up.
[19:43] <niemeyer> It's not like there's a finished project that is going in Ubuntu tomorrow.
[19:44] <UbuPhillup> okey thnkx
[19:44] <d0od> QUESTION: Would it be fair to say you're moving to a model where Canonical (and not the community) make the platform, and the community makes the applications which use the platform?
[19:46] <phiphi_> QUESTION: When will the official websites be available in other languages?
[19:46] <jcastro> no ubuntu-server questions? boooo!!!
[19:46] <fisch246> anyone know how to manually remove a package?
[19:47] <fisch246> installed spotweb, but it got corrupted on install... now any sort of uninstall procedure is broken.
[19:47] <UbuPhillup> phiphi_: very good question i would know it too
[19:47] <zebaszp> QUESTION: how's the baby? :D
[19:48] <AlanBell> phiphi_: press releases were available in Spanish and Mandarin
[19:48] <AlanBell> phiphi_: I suspect that is of significance
[19:48] <popey> QUESTION: Jono, do you miss not getting CDs as presents at this UDS? Still Whamming?
[19:49] <phiphi_> AlanBell: I think of the main landing page, the downloads and info pages linking to help pages (by LoCos like ubuntuusers.de)
[19:49] <davidaf> QUESTION: We know Canonical tries hard to balance company interests with *Ubuntu* community interests. That said some members of Ubuntu community are interested in the health of the wider *Linux* community. Is canonical interested in the health of the wider Linux community or is enought for Canonical to have strong Ubuntu community?
[19:50] <UbuPhillup> the german ubuntuusers are very great like it
[19:50] <niemeyer> d0od: That's not the case.. the platform is very much done by the community.. there is a huge number of projects that are at the heart of Ubuntu that are not made by Canonical. Some of those pieces that Canonical has to invest in directly are the things that are on the path for the world domination of Ubuntu that are simply unavailable, and that need a significant volume of immediate work.
[19:50] <cjohnston> I'm here!
[19:50] <niemeyer> cjohnston: Welcome :)
[19:50] <fisch246> brought my question to the support channel
[19:50] <zebaszp> QUESTION: Nvidia?
[19:51] <zebaszp> (that's the question, no other words are needed)
[19:51] <UbuPhillup> zebaszp: ;)
[19:52] <jcastro> hah
[19:52] <FlyingPig> zebaszp: According to this: http://samohtv.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/mir-an-outpost-envisioned-as-a-new-home/ yes
[19:52] <redtape-renegade> QUESTION: Where is the crowdfund address for Sophie's Pony ?? HELP POPEY NOW !!
[19:52] <phiphi_> QUESTION: How much big news and disruptions are still in the sleeve? Will it be quieter the rest of the year?
[19:53] <jjed_> second phiphi's question
[19:53] <zebaszp> oh dear...really? that's AWESOME!
[19:53] <matzipan_> QUESTION: is there any support for organizing a hackathon?
[19:53] <AlanBell> QUESTION: is talking to GPU vendors like this? http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/06/18/torvalds_bird.jpg
[19:53] <niemeyer> LOL
[19:53] <krafty> hi jono ;)
[19:53] <Jim99> Jono, are apps such as Twitter and FaceCrook removable from Ubuntu touch?
[19:54] <krabador> Question: Will you Mr. Bacon, cut your beard?
[19:54] <zebaszp> krabador, his beard is awesome
[19:54] <AlanBell> krabador: that question was answered earlier, "no"
[19:54] <ptl> GPU is a very delicate aspect in the ARM world
[19:55] <zebaszp> don't diss the beard
[19:55] <krabador> zebaszp, AlanBell :)
[19:55] <ptl> but I think it's easier to have them open-source their drivers than NVIDIA
[19:55] <popey> hah
[19:56] <zebaszp> QUESTION: is Mir getting (more) support than Wayland from Nvidia? (also, how did you not understand that?)
[19:56] <cjohnston> QUESTION: jono why didn't you cook us all bbq?
[19:56] <d0od> conversely, i'm looking forward to a break! :P
[19:56] <hegemon8> So what You saying Jono, You trying to fill the gap between free creating software, as it is now in linux with directed developing to achive goals ubuntu puts as first for platform to finish?
[19:56] <cjohnston> We have given Joey a more than full time job over the last 1.5 weeks jono, he might want a break
[19:56] <ptl> QUESTION: everybody says nvidia, but in ARM the MALI drivers are very important. Are you talking with them for open-sourcing the remaining part of their drivers? (kernel is open-source, x11 driver is closed)
[19:56] <balloons> matzipan_, the quality team likes to do some hackathons around testing
[19:57] <jcastro> matzipan_: check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams
[19:57] <balloons> matzipan_, for example https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/AutomatedTesting/Hackfest
[19:57] <zebaszp> QUESTION: we want guitar! also, I lied, no question
[19:57] <snwh> QUESTION: cake or death?
[19:57] <Bubba> perfermance increases with MIR???
[19:57] <Jim99> Jono, are apps such as Twitter and FaceCrook removable from Ubuntu touch?
[19:57] <niemeyer> zebaszp: Aw.. will miss that.. :-(
[19:58] <krabador> Question: Will ubuntu on arm platfom, replace x86 development ?
[19:58] <beardofomens> QUESTION: do you think that ppl should write apps solely for Ubuntu to take advantage of ubuntu-specific features?
[19:58] <balloons> QUESTION: rickspencer3 favorite color red?
[19:58] <niemeyer> krabador: No :)
[19:58] <cjohnston> jono: QUESTION: what about allstars? your not doing to do allstars for us?
[19:58] <fkol_k4> Canonical is making lots of stuff simultaneously. How bad will a possible failure (like in mir for example) for Ubuntu?
[19:59] <niemeyer> fkol_k4: A failure in mir means.. nothing changes? :-)
[19:59] <jsjgruber-uds> QUESTION: Will there be some physical UDS's in the future so people can become friends more easily?
[19:59] <fisch246> QUESTION: any plans for other ARM devices?
[19:59] <beardofomens> Jim99: prefix your question with QUESTION
[19:59] <balloons> it's the famous red wall rickspencer3
[19:59] <balloons> <3
[19:59] <rickspencer3> the wall we all dread to see
[19:59] <UbuPhillup> ;)
[19:59] <niemeyer> Haha
[19:59] <balloons> you know it's serious when we see the wall
[20:00] <niemeyer> Missed that.. too bad
[20:00] <hegemon8> QUESTION: So what You saying Jono, You trying to fill the gap between free creating software, as it is now in linux with directed developing to achive goals ubuntu puts as first for platform to finish?
[20:00] <UbuPhillup> mixed
[20:00] <hegemon8> it is...
[20:01] <krabador> Last Question : ubuntu facilitate a possible coexistence with other graphical environments, if any ?
[20:01] <matzipan_> balloons: i'm studying at the University of York and I was asking the hackathon question because we might want to facilitate people to participate in such a hackathon
[20:01] <krabador> on ubuntu touch i mean
[20:01] <AlanBell> o/ jono
[20:01] <niemeyer> We are trying to achieve Ubuntu goals, definitely. :-)
[20:01] <fisch246> o/
[20:01] <hegemon8> enjoy Jono :)
[20:01] <zebaszp> QUESTION: does your sandwich have bacon, jono?
[20:01] <matzipan_> lol
[20:01] <fisch246> lol
[20:01] <balloons> matzipan_, ohh brillant. Yea, if doing QA work like running or writing tests is up your alley, let me know
[20:02] <UbuPhillup> lol
[20:02] <krabador> thanx to you
[20:02] <netcurli> thank you
[20:02] <UbuPhillup> by
[20:02] <UbuPhillup> thankx
[20:02] <ptl> thanksssss
[20:02] <zebaszp> bless your beard, jono
[20:02] <clel> bye
[20:02] <hegemon8> bye
[20:02] <airurando> thanks
[20:02] <redtape-renegade> MM THAT WENT WELL .. ONLY GOT LAST 5 MINS ..
[20:03] <redtape-renegade> soz 4 caps.
[20:03] <matzipan_> balloons: well, it would probably be interesting to have multiple themed hackathons... like QA/testing, UI, backend ...
[20:03] <UbuPhillup> nice Q and A
[20:03] <zebaszp> I must say, vUDS is awesome
[20:04] <zebaszp> I could never attend an actual UDS, living in Argentina and all
[20:04] <UbuPhillup> zebaszp: ohh year !!
[20:04] <jcastro> zebaszp: that's awesome to hear, cheers.
[20:05] <matzipan_> balloons: is there any way I could probably be updated with any future hackathons going?
[20:05] <zebaszp> well, I'm off
[20:05] <balloons> matzipan_, yes certainly.. The global jam jcastro pointed you to is exactly that
[20:05] <zebaszp> have a good one, everyone
[20:05] <balloons> it was this past weekend :-)
[20:06] <zebaszp> cheers to jono, jcastro and all the crew
[20:06] <jono> thanks!
[20:07] <zebaszp> (I'm sorry, I have a hard time remembering irc nicks...)
[20:07] <matzipan_> oh, I see, ubuntu event planners
[20:07] <zebaszp> enjoy your sandwich! I think I might have one myself
[20:08] <fisch246> the expression of jono when UDS is finally over and done with. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/601220_425647637517666_997155308_n.jpg
[20:09] <matzipan_> balloons, jcastro awesome! I shall ping you guys if I have any questions about this, is that okay?
[20:10] <balloons> matzipan_, yes.. https://launchpad.net/~nskaggs feel free to contact me anytme
[20:10] <redtape-renegade> Is there an Ubuntu TV meeting at the UDS ??
[20:12] <matzipan_> balloons: the date when this is going to happen is not entirely clear....
[20:12] <matzipan_> the testing jam
[20:12] <matzipan_> i mean
[20:18] <balloons> matzipan_, the global jam of testing, packaging, translations, etc, etc.. that was this weekend
[20:19] <balloons> it's once every 6 months I belive
[20:19] <balloons> as a team, we like to have hackathons together.. just meeting up on IRC and working on things.
[20:19] <matzipan_> hmmm.. well... september isn't precisely school term... so we can't really contribute to that
[20:20] <balloons> There's nothing scheduled right now persay for our next one. But I want to do one again soon
[20:20] <balloons> that's specific to us as a quality team.. working on automated and manual test writing
[20:20] <balloons> if you want to be informed about that, a good way specific to quality is to join the mailing list
[20:21] <balloons> as far as ubuntu itself goes, you can use the calendar
[20:21] <balloons> let me find the link :-)
[20:33] <matzipan_> balloons: any luck finding that link ? :D
[20:37] <redtape-renegade> Will if cjohnston has quit = it must be over ...
[20:46] <balloons> matzipan_, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/
[20:46] <balloons> or simply http://fridge.ubuntu.com//calendars/
[23:58] <reed> i can hear you