[01:04] <pleia2> http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/05/1304-go-ahead
[01:05] <knome> mh
[01:05] <knome> is that official?
[01:05]  * pleia2 shrugs
[01:05] <pleia2> "we seem to have consensus"
[01:05] <knome> aha.
[01:06] <knome> would be nice to know soon... preferably before FF.
[01:06] <knome> :P
[03:04] <bluesabre> or if we could push FF off for a week, I could get more done in time ;-)
[03:08] <Unit193> FFe?
[03:19] <micahg> bluesabre: bug fixes don't need FFe
[03:19] <bluesabre> I know
[03:20] <bluesabre> but version bumps do, right?
[03:20] <bluesabre> e.g. parole
[03:22] <micahg> major version bumps for features, sure, microreleases for bugs only don't need exceptions until final freeze
[03:22] <scottbomb> Hey all. I'm just starting here. Got feedback today on the mail list xubuntu-devel about iso.qa.ubuntu.com. I'm already registered on Launchpad too.  So how do I tell which of the many testcases I should work without causing too much duplication?
[04:37] <micahg> bluesabre: I have a bit more cleanup to do before I can upload, need to finish tomorrow
[08:52] <ochosi> seems like a some longtime ubuntu-members are dropping out (http://doctormo.org/2013/03/06/ubuntu-membership-2/)
[10:37] <astraljava> ochosi: I have to say I agree somewhat. I don't really feel the same enthusiasm of belonging to the community as I did a few years ago. Maybe the reason why I haven't become a member in the first place. At first I thought I was inadequate, now I don't know if I want to, even. But I haven't closed this chapter, yet. :)
[10:37] <bluesabre> micahg, thanks for the update :)
[10:48] <ochosi> astraljava: yeah, i somewhat agree on that too (partially why i pasted it)
[10:48] <ochosi> i was wondering whether there's a wider tendency of older members to drop out of the community now
[10:48] <ochosi> as things are changing rapidly and the community is informed about it via the media
[10:49] <knome> it's probably just like that
[10:50] <ochosi> knome: time to write a mirror-article to this one ;) http://blogs.kde.org/2013/03/06/ubuntu-community-community
[10:51] <knome> i don't think that solves the issue.
[10:51] <ochosi> obviously not. and obviously i was a bit sarcastic ;)
[10:52] <knome> wasn't so sure.
[10:52] <ochosi> but in the end _we_ can't really solve "the issue"
[10:52] <knome> no, and that's my point
[10:52] <ochosi> i was a bit bewildered by that blogpost tbh
[10:53] <ochosi> seems a bit like a weird "call to arms"
[10:53] <Unit193> Or like someone is highly annoyed.
[10:53] <yofel> it wasn't really intended as such. But being frustated recently might have had some influence
[10:54] <ochosi> well sure, being frustrated at this point is no surprise
[10:54] <ochosi> but it seems like everyone is shooting very rapidly now
[10:54] <ochosi> and i'm wondering whether taking a step back, breathing deeply and waiting for the dust to settle wouldn't be wiser
[10:54] <knome> i wouldn't want to tell new contributors that we aren't like ubuntu, because that can newer be true
[10:54] <ochosi> and less disruptive for everyone
[10:55] <knome> ubuntu's (read: canonical's) decisions will always affect xubuntu
[10:55] <yofel> he didn't say that either, he said "if you want an ubuntu community that..."
[10:56] <knome> no, but that's how i read it
[10:56] <yofel> ochosi: the problem with that is with things moving as fast as they are now you might miss the timeframe where you *can* still raise objections
[10:56] <ochosi> yofel: i get that, but this blogpost isn't really about "raising objections" imo
[10:56] <knome> the community should definitely shout out now, but not anything that isn't argumented well
[10:56] <ochosi> it's way past raising objections
[10:57] <knome> i don't see the post as too much canonical-opposed
[10:57] <yofel> he might have stressed the limits of "playing nice" a bit, but maybe *sometimes* you just have to say what you think
[10:57] <yofel> esp. if you have the feeling that people ignore you when you're being nice
[10:59] <knome> some might think i'm pushing (or crossing) the boundaries as well in my article
[10:59] <ochosi> i dunno, to me asking people to "join us, we're the good ones" is just a downer
[11:00] <ochosi> devs@wayland have obviously also cried out
[11:00] <knome> yes, that's what it feels like, not like "canonical is bad, let's retaliate"
[11:00] <ochosi> and not that it would've made sense for them, but if they'd have asked mir-devs to join wayland, that would've felt just as weird
[11:02] <knome> and i don't think that attitude is constructive anyway ^
[11:02] <ochosi> +1
[11:03] <ochosi> especially as a "flavors unite" post would've made much more sense to me than "come and join only us"
[11:03] <knome> it's not only the flavors that need to cooperate, it's the whole volunteering community
[11:03] <ochosi> yeah, you can also call it "community unite" if you will )
[11:04] <ochosi> that'd actually be a nice reply to the kubuntu blogpost :)
[11:04] <knome> but that's a slippery slope.
[11:04] <ochosi> depends on what you expect from it
[11:05] <knome> i think the best way is to make sure we get as much well argumented posts from all over the community
[11:19] <astraljava> ochosi: Well, at least Charlie up and left.
[11:21] <knome> did he contribute much after leaving xubuntu?
[11:21] <astraljava> Not sure, but he did say something about the accessibility sector.
[11:21] <knome> i haven't been monitoring all the teams so i don't know if he has
[11:21] <astraljava> But yeah, I don't follow as closely nowadays, so I have no idea.
[11:21] <knome> just wondering how major depart it is
[11:22] <astraljava> Would be intriguing to know some numbers, yeah.
[11:22] <knome> he did drop a lot of his responsibilities before
[11:22] <knome> meh @ laptop batter
[11:22] <knome> +y
[11:22] <knome> 10% is 24 mins?
[11:22] <knome> that makes sense
[11:23] <astraljava> That's not a meh-worthy issue. What is, is the broken screen of a touch screen phone.
[11:23] <astraljava> Broken in a sense that it shows stuff, but doesn't react to... you guessed it, touches.
[11:23] <knome> reported full load has decreased again though :(
[11:23] <knome> yeah, that sucks
[11:23] <knome> but you know what i think about smartphones
[11:24] <astraljava> I know. Hence it's meh-worthy.
[11:24] <knome> not really.
[11:24] <knome> get a phone that's a phone
[11:24] <knome> ;)
[11:24] <astraljava> Well I don't think you get too agitated about it, since you don't even have one, and will never get one. :)
[11:24] <knome> yeah.
[11:25] <astraljava> Soo... meh.
[11:25] <knome> anybody whining that their smartphone calls are slow or bad in quality
[11:25] <knome> ...
[11:25] <knome> just get a *phone*
[11:25] <astraljava> Yes well I have a Nokia E7, but can't switch the SIM card there, cause they're of different size.
[11:25] <knome> there are adapters for that
[11:26] <knome> unless you have the legacy one and need a smaller one
[11:27] <knome> anyway...
[11:27] <knome> i need to go
[11:27] <knome> wifes brother gets back from india today
[11:27] <knome> have fun everybody
[17:20] <pleia2> scott-work: great comment on doctormo's blog post, thank you
[17:30] <Unit193> knome: Need to fix the !daily-#xubuntu factoid, no more alternate cd.
[17:32] <Unit193> Also, one from #xubuntu may be interested in testing, and another piped up too.
[17:36] <n-iCe> hello!
[17:36] <n-iCe> I want to be a tester!
[17:37] <ochosi> n-iCe: nice!
[17:38] <n-iCe> what should I do :D
[17:39] <ochosi> n-iCe: have you read through this page yet? http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/
[17:39] <n-iCe> No, I'm doing it, thanks.
[17:39] <ochosi> k
[18:11] <scott-work> pleia2: oh thank you! i appreciate your comments on my comments
[18:12] <scott-work> i was hoping it was insightful and that someone would respond or say something back
[18:12] <knome> are we doing a hangout?
[18:15] <scott-work> ochosi: LOL (i just caught your 'nice' comment)
[18:15] <Unit193> Which rep from Xubuntu do we have today?
[18:20] <micahg> ooh, are we starting?
[18:22] <knome> i wouuld be more comfortable with a private hangout, tbh.
[18:22] <knome> -u
[18:22] <knome> or something similar
[18:23] <Unit193> Yes.
[18:23] <Unit193> I have a mic, so technically I could join, but not sure I have much to add.
[18:24] <knome> can we have one after this session?
[18:24] <Unit193> I'm good with joining you (or anyone), if I'm needed.
[18:24] <knome> skellat, it's not about you. you're free to join us.
[18:39] <Kris_CGo> Any devs here who know if you're going to use mir or wayland? It seems many ubuntu derivatives are going wayland and a few mir.
[18:39] <knome> no.
[18:39] <knome> we don't know yet
[18:40] <knome> Kris_CGo, and please don't crosspost.
[18:42] <Kris_CGo> Wayland is nearly done and Mir is still a very early alpha, doesn't seem to be any advantages unless you're going to have xubuntu for mobile... so i guess that's what determines it ultimately in the future. I've been using xfce for years on desktop, have always had a great experience with it.
[18:59] <knome> can we schedule a xubuntu hangout or some kind of session after the proposal goes under review?
[19:01] <skellat> knome: I'll add that to my list of things to do
[19:01] <knome> skellat, thanks
[19:07] <knome> micahg, what you're proposing sounds fine, but i'd like to have some kind of timeframe for the upgrades
[19:08] <knome> micahg, even a week or two.
[19:08] <micahg> knome: sure, as rick said, that's an implementation detail
[19:08] <knome> yes, but an important one
[19:08] <knome> at least from my point of view
[19:11] <micahg> sure, I think how seamless we can make the release upgrade will determine how what type of window we need
[19:12] <knome> would you be proposing we only have these releases and LTS, and not use the rolling release stuff at all?
[19:12] <Unit193> (libopus0 isn't in backports, so says ubottu)
[19:12] <micahg> well, we'd integrate most of the concepts from the rolling release to make everything rock solid, it'll be critical in reducing the support overlap
[19:13] <micahg> Unit193: hrm :(, I'll have to go digging, it might have been blocked on something
[19:14] <Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/1099003 (I don't use precise except for a server)
[20:05] <Unit193> knome: When would you be interested in doing that, BTW?
[20:06] <micahg> Unit193: ah, no one filed backport requests for opus/vlc
[20:06] <knome> Unit193, after we have a formal proposal for the RR
[20:09] <skellat> Oh, and Happy Feature Freeze Thursday!
[20:10] <knome> skellat, you too
[20:14] <Unit193> Ehhh, I've got a couple hours left, maybe...
[20:14] <micahg> umm, yeah, about 26 :)
[20:16] <Unit193> And they don't hand out FFes to everyone either.
[20:17] <knome> Unit193, definitely not you.
[20:17] <Unit193> Hah, indeed.
[20:45] <scottbomb> Hello all. Is there any disadvantage in using VirtualBox for ISO testing?
[20:46] <scottbomb> I suppose it may not help since VB uses the Windows drivers and doesn't communicate directly with hardware, is that correct?
[20:47] <knome> scottbomb, it helps a bit, but of course that's not real hardware testing
[20:48] <knome> virtualbox uses generic drivers that are *made* to be as easy as possible for the hardware
[20:49] <scottbomb> Cool, thanks. I'll do directly with a real install then. Now do I just pick any testcase I feel like testing?
[20:52] <knome> scottbomb, any should be fine. after you've done the installing testcase, check out our post-install testcases :)
[20:54] <scottbomb> Will do, thanks. Also, I understand I should use the daily builds, right?
[20:55] <knome> yes, since we're not doing any milestone testing right now
[20:56] <knome> please note that there's also the upgrade tests
[20:56] <knome> where you install the previous version first, then upgrade to the newest
[20:59] <scottbomb> The laptop is running Quantal now. So I would do a fresh install of the ISO or I can do an upgrade to the daily Raring build?
[21:00] <knome> an upgrade from your installation would do
[21:00] <scottbomb> Then each day just upgrade to the newest daily and continue testing packages as needed per the testcases?
[21:01] <knome> well, most of the testcases include installing a system
[21:01] <knome> so ideally you would install the system again every day, *then* run the post-installation (desktop) tests
[21:02] <scottbomb> I'm quite new at this so thank you for your patience. I want to be as useful as possible so I think I'll go that route then, as you suggest with new installs.
[21:02] <knome> no problem
[21:02] <knome> and feel free to ask for assistance any time
[21:02] <scottbomb> Cool thanks.
[21:02] <knome> and great to see new people wanting to help
[23:10] <eduardo__> Hello!
[23:11] <GridCube> hi
[23:12] <eduardo__> I found a bug! (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1063965)
[23:12] <eduardo__> Help me, please!
[23:14] <eduardo__> My version of Xubuntu is 12.10 amd64.
[23:16] <eduardo__> Someone?
[23:16] <eduardo__> I'm new on Xubuntu. Help me, please!
[23:17] <eduardo__> I'm from Brazil and not speak English very good!
[23:21] <eduardo__> Nobody go me help same huh?
[23:29] <drc> eduardo__: #xubuntu is the support channel
[23:31] <eduardo__> ok