[01:37] <len_1304> zequence, some of MIR's targets seem mutually exclusive.
[01:38] <len_1304> in particular the Test-Driven and Versatile & Flexible sections.
[01:40] <len_1304> MIR seems as if it would start from phone/pad usability and expand to fit desktop needs... with desktop needs being "dumbed down" if needed to fit.
[01:40] <len_1304> It certainly fits a consumer oriented user base.
[01:42] <len_1304> The MIR based system would have no VTs and would take over from startup.
[01:47] <len_1304> In other words the first thing the user would see Is MIR based. No Plymouth or lightdm and in the long term no grub as we know it... or at least the ability to boot without grub if there are no other OS on the system... for OEM use.
[01:49] <len_1304> This is something I would be very happy with if I was developing a smart phone or tablet. Or even thinking of preloading a desktop with.
[01:58] <len_1304> With respect to the time line, I suspect the 13.10 schedule will be relatively close and that the 14.04 is much underestimated.
[02:08] <len_1304> The wayland page (wiki) made a whole lot more sense, but that may be because there has been development for a number of years already.
[02:09] <len_1304> zequence, ya, I know, it's 2am for you :)
[05:16] <micahg> Len-nb: zequence  -settings uploaded, will have to look at the ISO failure in the morning, also I filed Bug #1151310 since it's too late at night for me to worry about udev rules, we should fix it for raring though
[05:17] <micahg> Len-nb: I was wondering why those desktop files didn't exist in their own packages (or do they and you're overriding)?
[05:17]  * micahg goes to sleep
[05:17] <Len-nb> I guess I won't be able to answer...
[05:18] <Len-nb> The desktop files are because the originals have "no show" in them
[05:18] <micahg> you can leave me a message :)
[05:21] <micahg> Len-nb: umm..for hdspmixer, the only difference is the Icon
[05:21] <Len-nb> micahg, There is a real icon, I don't know why alsa uses another
[05:22] <micahg> get alsa fixed?
[05:22] <Len-nb> Long term yes
[05:22] <micahg> (not now obviously)
[05:23] <Len-nb> hexter had no desktop file
[05:23] <Len-nb> (or it was broken)
[05:23] <micahg> if it's broke, let's fix?
[05:23] <Len-nb> Yup
[05:24] <micahg> hexter is uploaded by quadrispro (alessio), so it should be no problem to fix
[05:24] <Len-nb> OK
[05:25] <Len-nb> I have redone the icon for that one as it was a pixmap with no alpha channel
[05:25] <micahg> let's push to Debian at least, hopefully all the way upstream
[05:25] <Len-nb> hexter is welcome to my "artwork"
[05:27] <micahg> http://dssi.sourceforge.net/hexter.html introduction section has contact info
[05:27] <Len-nb> I will work on a patch and send it to them.
[05:27] <micahg> thanks
[05:28]  * micahg prefers not bikeshedding where possible
[05:28] <Len-nb> This stuff is still somewhat new to me. 
[05:29] <micahg> Len-nb: you're doing great!
[05:30] <micahg> Len-nb: I didn't have to fix a thing with the -settings upload other than the timestamp on the import from 0.40
[05:30] <Len-nb> I try to pick up loose ends
[05:30] <micahg> I'm sorry for taking so long with that
[05:30] <Len-nb> I'll test it when next we have an ISO
[05:32] <micahg> well, if I have time before 18:00 UTC, I'll try to fix it, I need to get catfish uploaded and maybe gmusicbrowser as well
[05:32] <Len-nb> catfish is on our need list too
[05:32] <Len-nb> The new one looks really nice
[05:33] <micahg> well, it's seeded now, so once it's uploaded, you'll pick it up
[05:33] <Len-nb> That was the idea :)
[07:19] <zequence> len_1304: Did you have a look at the bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-default-settings/+bug/1151310
[07:20] <zequence> I think actually there was a change in policy for this a couple of years ago
[07:20] <zequence> Anyway, easy enough to fix
[10:50] <zequence> len_1304: I'd like to reorganize the blueprints for next cycle - however that will look like
[10:50] <zequence> len_1304: Anything you feel could be done better?
[10:51] <zequence> len_1304: This is what I got right now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Blueprints/DevelopmentReleaseTemplate
[13:08] <zequence> Put up a page on building our dvd locally https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupLocalIsoBuildServer
[13:09] <zequence> We should take advantage of that and do testing locally now and then
[13:09] <smartboyhw> zequence: XD I want one
[13:09] <zequence> Right now raring is not building, and I did this to be able to debug
[13:09] <smartboyhw> good
[13:10] <zequence> ..in case you try to build and find that it's not working, I mean
[13:10]  * smartboyhw will try it tmr
[13:11] <zequence> Don't try to build in an encrypted folder
[13:11] <zequence> There are a few things that work badly from encrypted folders/partitions
[13:11] <zequence> Like Virtualbox drives
[13:12] <smartboyhw> yeah.
[13:12]  * smartboyhw never uses it.
[13:13] <smartboyhw> Still on mobile, can't do KDE packaging....
[13:29] <zequence> All right. cjwatson fixed our ISO problem. Should hopefully build now
[13:30] <smartboyhw> YAY zequence
[13:48] <zequence> Seems to be working a lot better now
[13:51] <smartboyhw> zequence \o/
[14:10] <len_1304> zequence, I will fix the settings tonight.
[14:13] <zequence> len_1304: To get the settings manager in?
[14:13] <len_1304> no to fix the bug above
[14:13] <smartboyhw> len_1304 what bug?
[14:14] <len_1304> bug 1151310
[14:14] <smartboyhw> ok
[14:17] <smartboyhw> zequence, len_1304: I thought it strange that ~ubuntustudio-dev isn't in ~ubuntu-dev. Other flavours do it, and you get upload rights.
[14:18] <zequence> smartboyhw: It's not strange. And we will need to earn upload rights
[14:19] <zequence> Could be we need to reorganize that team when we get there
[14:19] <smartboyhw> zequence it's strange that it hasn't been done for YEARS
[14:20] <zequence> Perhaps that was never an ambition
[14:20] <zequence> Studio is a bit different from the others
[14:21] <zequence> In some way you could say we are more users than hackers usually
[14:21] <zequence> I started doing this to solve problems with my Ubuntu Studio install
[14:21] <zequence> That's how things go
[14:21] <smartboyhw> Ok. But we should now. We can't solely depend on micahg....
[14:22] <smartboyhw> He has Xubuntu to work on
[14:22] <zequence> That is something I've been saying for a while now
[14:22] <zequence> And that is why I'm suggesting we start rolling our own packages from now on
[14:22] <smartboyhw> zequence +1
[14:22] <zequence> That is why I'm setting up my own build system
[14:22] <zequence> That is why I'm working so hard on the wiki
[14:23] <smartboyhw> Ah..... 
[14:24] <len_1304> zequence, smartboyhw I have asigned myself to the bug above.
[14:24] <smartboyhw> len_1304 please work on it;-)
[14:25] <len_1304> Time for work... Bye all
[14:25] <smartboyhw> bye bye
[14:40] <zequence> len_1304: I don't think it's a good idea to add readmes in the udev dir. Better put comments in the udev file instead
[14:45] <smartboyhw> zequence: What's the process of getting the dev team -> upload rights?
[14:48] <zequence> smartboyhw: That is not easily done. First of all, not everyone in the dev team should have upload rights. Then, if we have a team for handling upload rights, someone trustworthy needs to be admin of that team, and it's not sure that would be anyone in our dev team.
[14:48] <smartboyhw> zequence: Admin = Ubuntu DMB I think
[14:48] <zequence> The primiary problem right now is not the dev team, but for someone to get upload rights
[14:49] <smartboyhw> zequence I would rather apply for upload rights for Kubuntu...
[14:49] <zequence> Makes sense, since you are packaging for Ubuntu, not us
[14:49] <smartboyhw> lok
[14:49] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:49] <zequence> I mean Kubuntu
[14:50] <smartboyhw> zequence: Well I can but you guys don't want me to mess it up so....
[14:51] <zequence> smartboyhw: It's not about that
[14:51] <smartboyhw> zequence: About what then?
[14:51] <zequence> It's better someone handles something that they are interested in working on. Not just administering/maintaining
[14:52] <zequence> We aren't merely maintaining our packages. We are developing the source
[14:52] <smartboyhw> zequence: I would rather pick the seeds +metas :-P
[14:52] <zequence> When we develop the source, it is based on something we want to achieve
[14:54] <zequence> At this point, none of us is qualified to even be a mentor. It is better me and len get there first, and then, we can mentor other packagers/developers
[14:54] <smartboyhw> zequence: Yep-ee
[14:54] <zequence> smartboyhw: You aren't suggesting any changes, or having ideas about what we should do, since you are not really into the multimedia bit. You're just interested in working with the packages
[14:55] <zequence> Which is fine, I guess
[14:55] <zequence> It'll come
[14:56] <smartboyhw> ok
[14:56] <zequence> The situation for Kubuntu is completely different
[14:56] <zequence> They are maintaining lots of packages that they more or less just make sure don't break the system
[14:57] <zequence> They also have qualified people working on them
[14:57] <smartboyhw> zequence by multimedia bit what do you mean?
[14:58]  * smartboyhw thought zequence saying "qualified people" it doesn't include smartboyhw
[14:58] <zequence> smartboyhw: You aren't doing any of the workflows that we are developing yourself. Me, I'm a classically educated musician, and have been using computers with music for more than 10 years
[14:59] <zequence> smartboyhw: I wasn't saying you are incompetent
[14:59] <zequence> I was saying we are
[15:00] <zequence> Which is half true, at this point
[15:00] <smartboyhw> ok
[15:00] <zequence> While Kubuntu devs are competent. They have more skills and experience there
[15:00] <zequence> Their team is huge
[15:00] <smartboyhw> zequence that's correct
[15:03] <smartboyhw> zequence I'm worrying about my laptop.... Doing too many VM ISO testing is killing CPU+RAM
[15:04] <zequence> Don't run them all at the same time. 
[15:05] <zequence> smartboyhw: You should hide a computer in your closet and use ssh to control it ;)
[15:05] <smartboyhw> Even one is quite a problem zequence...
[15:05] <zequence> Time to go home. bbl
[15:05] <smartboyhw> zequence: BAH impossble
[19:49] <zequence> holstein: len_1304 I'd like to change the default wallpaper
[19:50] <zequence> Just found a wiki page we have with user contributed art
[19:50] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/UserContributed
[19:50] <zequence> There are some really sweet wallpapers there
[19:50] <holstein> which one?
[19:51] <zequence> I like the first one a lot
[19:51] <holstein> dirty?
[19:52] <zequence> Yeah
[19:52] <holstein> me too
[19:52] <holstein> i think it goes with the splash screen
[19:52] <zequence> It's really dark, so I don't know how well it works with the panels. Need to check
[19:52] <zequence> But, dark can be really slick
[19:53] <zequence> I'll try some of them and do some screenshots
[19:53] <holstein> i like it too as long as its functional
[19:54] <holstein> i wouldnt waste too much time on it til you ask ScottL.. unless you are just going to push it through
[20:03] <zequence_> http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5763
[20:03] <zequence_> http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5764
[20:04] <zequence_> http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5765
[20:04] <holstein> yeah... 5764
[20:04] <holstein> "dirty"
[20:04] <zequence> I thought both the dark ones worked ok. No problem at all seeing stuff
[20:05] <holstein> i like 5765 and tried to use it once.. but its too bright
[20:05] <zequence> I'd like the carbon wallpaper better, if the carbon had a bit more finesse
[20:06] <zequence> So, dirty is my fave to
[20:06] <zequence> too*
[20:11] <zequence> holstein: There are a lot of nice ones out there, if one wants to look for them :) www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=w9h&sa=X&channel=fs&biw=1885&bih=922&tbm=isch&tbnid=L2waWAgUckdOZM:&imgrefurl=http://ofdirfska.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Studio-Wallpaper-106246616&docid=45Tz2yv6KeATVM&imgurl=http://www.deviantart.com/download/106246616/Ubuntu_Studio_Wallpaper_by_Ofdirfska.png&w=1280&h=800&ei=eO44Ue_uEqiR4ASby4DICA&zoom=1&ve
[20:11] <zequence> Sorry about the long links
[20:12] <zequence> We should contact the artists of some of those, and see if they'd like to do more stuff for us
[20:17] <zequence> holstein: This is the login screen http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5766
[20:18] <holstein> thats nice too!
[20:27] <zequence> holstein: Actually, I think this isn't original art. The background is something else, and then someone just added the icon to it
[20:27] <zequence> Also, when you look at the icon, it's not very well done
[20:27] <zequence> Makes me less eager to choose it
[21:37] <Len-nb> zequence, +1 on new wall paper.
[21:54] <zequence> Len-nb: holstein: How's this one? http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5767
[21:56] <Len-nb> I'm not very visually oriented :) That looks fine to me, My main thing is that change is good. I says this release is new.
[21:59] <zequence> Yes, it would be bad to keep the same one over so much time
[22:02] <zequence> I actually did the last one myself. Inspired by what Cory had done
[22:02] <zequence> Found a pattern, and used it to make the background
[22:03] <zequence> Not the most original though
[22:05] <zequence> Also, it didn't turn out the way I wanted. I'll do another one, just for the fun of it. I'm not really interested in adding my own stuff. Just that we have something that works, and then we can move on
[22:05] <zequence> I'd rather have some artist do this stuff
[22:17] <zequence> I'm feeling pretty happy with this one now http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5768
[22:17] <zequence> At least on how it turned out. Another issue, if it's the right wallpaper
[22:19] <micahg> zequence: is Studio up for beta 1?
[22:20] <Len-nb> That bg is fine by me.
[22:20] <micahg> slangasek was wondering who's on board in -release
[22:21] <Len-nb> micahg, Bug #1151310 fix committed
[22:21] <Len-nb> I guess you get email anyway.
[22:21] <micahg> not from the branch, but the bug
[22:21] <zequence> micahg: Not yet. I think we'd like to do just a couple of finishing touches
[22:22] <micahg> Len-nb: did you link the bug in the changelog?  I don't see a branch connected to the bug
[22:22] <Len-nb> micahg, do we have an iso?
[22:22] <micahg> zequence: no, it's next week, they just want a show of hands for participation so they can allocate resources I guess
[22:23] <micahg> Len-nb: yes :)
[22:23] <micahg> though i386 is larger which is a bit wird
[22:23] <micahg> *weird
[22:23] <zequence> It has wine, while amd64 doesn't
[22:23] <Len-nb> 32bit has wine
[22:23] <zequence> :)
[22:23] <zequence> lmms thing
[22:24] <micahg> I'm guessing we can't do multiarch ISOs yet...
[22:24] <Len-nb> micahg, not sure what you mean by linked.
[22:24] <zequence> micahg: Oh, sorry. I misunderstood. No, we were not planning to participate in that
[22:24] <micahg> Len-nb: close the bug in the changelog and do debcommit or use --fixes lp:XXXXX with bzr commit
[22:25] <zequence> micahg: Is Xubuntu doing Beta1?
[22:25] <micahg> zequence: yes, we'd like a few weeks to get feedback before the final beta
[22:25] <Len-nb> The change log has the bug number in it with the change.
[22:26] <zequence> micahg: Well, in that case, I say we should go too. I think we can manage getting things done by then, anyway
[22:26] <Len-nb> The commit message has the bug in it too. I didn't know about the --fixes thing I have never done that before
[22:26] <micahg> if you use debcommit, it's automatic
[22:26] <micahg> I think it's automatic with bzr commit as well
[22:26] <Len-nb> Should I just recommit with that in?
[22:26] <micahg> I'm puzzled that it's not linked
[22:27] <micahg> no, that's ok, it's just weird
[22:27] <Len-nb> I'll be sure to use --fixes next time
[22:27]  * micahg linked it manually
[22:28] <micahg> Len-nb: nah, just use debcommit if you've written a changelog
[22:28] <micahg> it's a lot easier than fumbling with the fixes syntax
[22:28] <zequence_> http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=5769
[22:29] <zequence> That's a screenshot of the desktop with the wallpaper
[22:29]  * Len-nb has to pick son up
[22:29] <zequence> Len-nb: Remember to put him down
[22:31] <micahg> Len-nb: as for the README, I don't know if cluttering /etc with READMEs is a good idea, there's already a README with instructions there, if you want package specific instructions, then a package based README that gets installed would be fine
[22:32] <zequence> I think it makes much more sense to document that suff on wikis
[22:33] <micahg> wikis you have to hunt for, READMEs get installed with the package
[22:33] <micahg> wikis can point to the README as well
[22:33] <micahg> READMEs are also good for offline docs
[22:35] <zequence> I don't know if any udev rules have docs anywhere
[22:35] <zequence> installed, I mean
[22:36] <zequence> It would be good for us to document the few alterations we make
[22:36] <zequence> But, I'd rather have them easier to find, on our website, or somewhere
[22:37] <zequence> If someone is smart enough to find a README for a package, they can find the udev rule too
[22:37] <zequence> Better to put a comment in it to clarify what it does, and why
[22:37] <micahg> that's fine too
[22:58] <Len-nb> micahg, I decided we don't need the README.
[23:00] <Len-nb> I was thinking in case someone wanted to deactivate it. But this justs adds a group it is something else sets the max frequency