/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/08/#xubuntu-devel.txt

bluesabremicahg, I don't know what dh7 means01:06
micahgbluesabre: short form dh01:08
bluesabreah, does it work to use a later version of debhelper (not really sure how to help at this point)01:11
micahgnot that I know of (dh7 is the form of debian/rules that you're using)01:11
micahgso, I can't get it to build without overriding dh_auto_configure, but if I do that, I get a build with no python files installed01:12
bluesabreI think the quickly packaging uses version 801:13
micahgshouldn't matter, the debhelper used is the version in raring which is 9.x01:13
ochosihey01:20
bluesabrehey micahg, I think liviu may have gotten it.  https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable/+packages01:23
ochosiLen-nb: display hotplugging is implemented in xfce4-settings in git, it currently brings up the minimal dialog (optionally) if you add a second screen (caveat: doesn't work with all analog setups, digital should be fine in general)01:23
ochosimicahg: not sure that got lost in your backlog or maybe you also don't/didn't have time for it, but i wanted to bring up the gmusicbrowser release again01:25
micahgbluesabre: for precise, not quantal (same issue I'm having in raring)01:25
micahgochosi: yeah, I have it on my list, will try to get it in for beta 101:26
micahgbluesabre: also, we want to ship py files, not pyc files01:27
ochosimicahg: thanks a lot! i know it was/is onshort notice, but the release was just a short while ago..01:27
ochosibluesabre: i'm not really up to speed on that, but have you talked to anyone yet about getting parole 0.5 into R?01:27
micahgbluesabre: right, there's no dh_python2 in precise01:27
micahgochosi: already in01:28
ochosioh, awesome!01:28
ochosithanks again :)01:28
bluesabremicahg, so the packaging he used in precise (just tested and it works in precise) wouldn't work in later releases?01:29
micahgbluesabre: oh, hrm, I'm thinking of lucid01:32
micahghe's not using dh_python2 at all01:33
bluesabrebut it does seem to work01:33
ochositime to sleep, night!01:43
bluesabreseeya ochosi01:43
=== LaserJock1 is now known as LaserJock
bluesabremicahg, did catfish make it?03:25
micahgbluesabre: not yet03:38
micahgbluesabre: I'll try again this weekend maybe03:41
bluesabremicahg, thanks!03:42
micahgit would probably help if I got a local build workinging, I'll read through the ā€ˇfiles and see if I missed anyth03:42
bluesabrecool, if you need anything from me, let me know03:48
micahgthanks03:50
skellatknome pleia2 micahg Rick Spencer has proposals up for editing on the Wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCadence04:41
micahgskellat: yeah, I'll be looking at that next week04:42
skellatknome pleia2 micahg The relevant e-mail is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036872.html04:42
skellatmicahg: It looks like the deadline Mr. Spencer has put into place for putting something to Tech Board is March 18th.  I'll need to know from knome about when he wants the hangout/virtual meeting/conference call arranged for now.04:43
micahgnext tech board meeting is then04:43
skellatHmm04:45
pleia2yeah, I find the "every 6 months but only support for 7-8 months proposal very interesting for my personal uses ;)04:45
skellatI get ubuntu-devel in digest mode so I'm reacting on the fly as I only got the digest in the past couple minutes04:45
pleia2but I hate change, so there is that04:45
micahgyes, that's what I'm shooting for + maybe a rolling release tacked on04:45
pleia2I am sympathetic to the argument that freeze time is loss productivity for folks who aren't doing fixes, so having something roll on through that is compelling04:46
pleia2(or even open the next +1 as soon as +1 freezes)04:47
pleia2which I guess is just rolling with different words :)04:47
skellatIn terms of psychological stresses in the community, I favor letting 13.04 finish but then not have a 13.10 while we take the time to retool to have a firm foundation to make all this work before we start gearing up for 14.0404:47
micahgI think the win/win here is 6 mo cadence with ~7 mo support that's created from the stable part of the rolling release at ~month 4.5 of the cycle04:47
skellatmicahg: Isn't that essential Fedora-style support length?04:48
micahgni idea04:48
Unit193I'm good with 6 month releases, but shorter support time.  Generally those people upgrade, the rest stick at an LTS.04:49
pleia2skellat: welcome by the way, you've been here for several days and I haven't said so, always nice to have new people come and join the conversation :)04:49
pleia2Unit193: right04:49
Unit193pleia2: left.04:49
skellatActually, the 6 month cadence with 7 month support would put us at a shorter window than Fedora.  Apparently Fedora X goes End of Life at Fedora X+2.  See: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Life_Cycle#End_of_Life_.28EOL.2904:52
pleia2fedora doesn't have an LTS though, so I think they need an option for people who use it a bit longer (I don't know who these people are)04:52
micahgright, so 13 mo would match fedora, I don't think we can win with that though04:53
micahg+ pleia2's point04:53
micahgpleia2: there's CentOS for LTS type stuff though04:53
pleia2fedora always structured me as development for red hat04:53
pleia2yeah04:53
skellatRHEL: You paid for it.  CentOS: You didn't pay for it.  Fedora: You're either a developer or you want a wild ride.04:54
micahgone of the criteria here is quality so that upgrades from release -> release are basically seemless04:54
micahg*seamless04:54
Unit193But if you like Ubuntu, but just don't like release upgrades...04:54
pleia2apparently english is not my strong suit tonight, you know what I mean04:54
micahgUnit193: LTS FTW :)04:54
Unit193micahg: That was a reply to the CentOS comment.04:54
skellatLiking Ubuntu but not liking release upgrades stays too much within a Microsoft-created paradigm.  Yes, there are probably still tons and tons of machines out there running XP.  How do you entice those folks to upgrade?  Do they have the hardware *able* to survive/support an upgrade?04:55
micahgLTS is for that, 5 yr support04:56
skellatXP is well past that now, though.04:56
micahgXP ends its life support in April04:56
pleia2XP was an anomaly04:56
pleia2MS will never support something for that along again04:57
skellatSomehow it survived 11 years04:57
micahgyeah, XP was only supported that long due to its replacement products not being good04:57
micahgand the first "upgrade" took 6 years to get out the door04:57
skellatmicahg: Could you give us a bumper-sticker or three sized explainer on the derived distro notion?04:59
micahgI'd rather avoid it :)04:59
skellatOkay05:00
* pleia2 heads off to dinner05:00
* skellat recognizes it is now really, really early Friday morning in northeast Ohio05:00
skellatWell, if we can come up with a date and time for our Xubuntu Huddle I will get it arranged.  My e-mail address is up to date on Launchpad.05:02
micahgskellat: the basic idea is to use the LTS as a base and then override the packages that a flavor would want to backport for stuff that can't be backported05:03
skellatYep05:04
skellatI've got a cat invading and I apparently need to get some sleep05:04
skellatSo I bid you good night micahg as I head off to chase down Shadow05:05
* skellat gets ready for bedtime05:05
ochosimeh, kubuntu/kde - canonical flamewar is exhausting...11:35
Unit193At least sabdfl got in on it. ;)11:36
ochosidoesn't make it much less exhausting though for me11:36
Unit193(Kidding.)11:37
ochosik :)11:38
micahgknome: did you want me to add xfce4-* to the supported seed?17:24
=== GridCube_ is now known as GridCube
knomemicahg, yes, if you think that's doable for our team19:08
micahgthere aren't too many, it just means that we're open to bugs and obligating ourselves to fix issues19:08
knomei think that sounds good, but since i'm not able to fix bugs, i need your evaluation if it's doable/needed19:11
bluesabre_1knome secretly advises me and ochosi on how to fix the bugs in our projects19:24
bluesabre_1don't let him fool you micahg19:25
knomehah.19:26
LaserJockhi all. I installed Xubuntu 12.10 this week after a year or two of not touching *buntu and I wanted to say it really rocks. You've done a fantastic job.19:42
pleia2thanks LaserJock <319:43
LaserJockso I read on the blog that for 13.04 you're going to 1GB, is there more going on there than GIMP and Gnumeric?19:47
pleia2some languages19:48
pleia2part of the change is we didn't want to make micahg spend all his nights and weekends scrambling for space anymore, so leaving several (even hundred) megs free helps a lot19:48
LaserJocksure19:49
micahgLaserJock: anything you think we're missing?19:49
LaserJocknot particularly, I like having Gnumeric on there19:49
LaserJockI just wondered as I know how cramped things can get19:49
LaserJockbut since Xubuntu seems lighter I wondered why 1GB in particular19:49
LaserJockbut I know languages are always a big part of the space, are you going to ship more than Ubuntu?19:50
micahgwell, I think we decided 10 most popular since we have the space now19:50
micahgthe goal is to keep the image between 800 and 900 MB19:50
micahgwe're under 800MB ATM19:51
LaserJockthat seems nice. 700 is just not enough, but nobody wants to have to download 4GB isos :-)19:51
micahgI offered to make a kitchen sink type DVD version with more stuff, but there didn't seem to be enough interest in testing19:51
LaserJockmost people probably just download particular set of "goodies" after install anyway19:52
micahg700 is only problematic due to the bloated core that we inherit19:52
LaserJockyeah, I just wondered since Ubuntu still fits why you would go more19:53
micahgnah, Ubuntu is at 800MB right now19:53
LaserJockah, I haven't looked for a while19:53
LaserJockso did FeatureFreeze happen? (I'm looking at the release schedule)19:55
LaserJockI've been watching the "big debate" on Planet Ubuntu but haven't tracked ubuntu-devel19:55
Noskcajscottbomb, how did you manager to get through the installer without any bugs?19:55
Noskcaj*manage19:56
bluesabre_1for me, the only guaranteed way to make it through an ubuntu install is to not install drivers or codecs at install-time19:57
bluesabre_1but I'll be testing installation this weekend on my laptop, hoping for the best19:57
bluesabre_1:)19:57
Noskcajbluesabre_1, that may be because that is one of the 4 bugs i can find in the installer ATM19:58
Noskcajto whoever has just added the progress bar in the xubuntu installer, thanks. could you put a marker in as to where the installation starts?19:59
micahgbluesabre_1: if that's true, please file bugs with appropriate logs so the issues can get fixed20:00
bluesabre_1sure thing20:02
Noskcajalso to whoever added that bar, you didn't quite get it right20:05
knomeNoskcaj, i don't think it's anybody from the xubuntu team. it's most probably the ubiquity maintainers that did it20:05
Noskcajknome, ok, it only appeared today, i was wondering if it's ubiquity wide. i will check soon20:06
xnoxknome: Noskcaj: yes the bar is new.20:07
xnoxit has "progress dots" to indicate how many pages/steps there are.20:07
xnoxit looks good in ubuntu default theme (orange on black) but some other themes may want to increase contrast between background and progressbars.20:08
xnoxI can help with gtk+3 css vars that need adjustment.20:08
knomeochosi, ^20:08
Noskcajxnox, the issue is it goes 1, 2,4,6,7 then ignores the second half of the installer20:09
xnoxNoskcaj: yeah, I spotted that as well. Needs fixing. I should file a bug.20:10
Noskcajyes, tell me if you do and i will add it to my report on the iso tracker20:11
xnoxbug 115274620:12
ubottubug 1152746 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Progress dots, well don't progress after partman step" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115274620:12
Noskcajxnox, does that bug include the skipping as well?20:13
xnoxNoskcaj: skipping is normal.20:13
xnoxNoskcaj: e.g. there is wifi step and if there is no wifi/internet already connected we just gain a dot "for free"20:14
xnox(that's the 3rd one)20:14
xnoxnot sure where the 5th one went though. =)20:14
Noskcajok, and the 5th?20:14
knomemicahg, do we want to freeze more than what's freezed in FF?21:45
bluesabre_1glad that message is for micahg, because that just sounds confusing21:52
knomehah21:52
knomewe can decide to freeze xfce* for beta121:52
knomefor example21:52
knomeor catfish, if we don't want bluesabre_1 poking in!21:52
micahgknome: I was hoping to upload catfish and gmusicbrowser still21:53
micahgand gimp21:53
bluesabre_1+321:53
bluesabre_1catfish + gmb would be awesome21:53
knomemicahg, sure. if we dont', i'll reply to stgraber we're opting in for beta 121:54
micahggmb and gimp I know I can do :)21:54
micahgwell, gimp I know I can do, gmb if I get a freeze exception21:54
bluesabre_1btw, liviu got quantal and raring catfish packages into the ppa, https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable21:57
bluesabre_1heading out now, bbl21:58
bluesabre_1have fun guys!21:58
knomebluesabre_1, hf21:58
* micahg wonders what python-distutils-extra is used for21:59
micahgI think I see the problem with catfish, it's installing pyc files instead of py files which is why dh_python2 chokes22:02
* micahg files upstream bug22:02
* micahg will have to talk to some python people over the weekend22:06
ochosixnox: ubiquity, css, gtk3, vars -> progress dots?22:39
xnoxochosi: yes.22:50
xnoxochosi: one sec.22:50
xnoxochosi: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DU8LtP4EIjo/UTEADqZhCSI/AAAAAAAAAyI/WKWh5NbTC48/s754/049.png22:50
xnoxthis is new ubiquity.22:50
ochosioh i see22:51
xnoxthe "dots" are just very small progress-bars.22:51
ochosiso it's about the bottom bar22:51
ochosiyup, i get it22:51
ochosiare those pixmaps or how are the dots drawn?22:51
xnoxit's a GtkProgressBar of size 10x10px.22:51
ochosiah :)22:51
xnoxso in ubiquity they look nice - orange on darkbg color.22:51
xnoxbut in xubuntu/lubuntu they will be light on light color.22:51
ochosiit should be blue on grey22:52
ochosithat's fine imo22:52
ochosii assume we have no screener of that yet, right?22:52
xnoxwell sure, as long as people can see which ones are full & which once are hollow.22:52
xnoxochosi: i would love to get derivates to add screenshots to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/SlideDecks22:52
ochosimhm22:53
xnoxochosi: e.g. lubuntu/xubuntu/kubuntu slide decks =)22:53
xnoxsuch that when I work on the installer I can have a sence how it will look like.22:53
ochosido those progress-dots have a widget-name or are they generic progressbars22:53
ochosii.e. can i theme them independently or would i have to change the progressbars in all of ubiquity?22:54
ochosianother question: this version of ubiquity is in the daily images already? then i'll simply download and test it, then i can also upload some screenshots for you22:56
xnoxochosi: so its progressbars inside GtkEventBox called "progress_eventbox"22:56
xnoxochosi: yeap, it's in the dailies.22:56
xnoxochosi: I guess I should apply a better style name to them.....22:56
* xnox will ponder about it.22:57
ochosihehe22:57
ochosiprogressdots?22:57
xnoxochosi: cause there is normal "progressbar" as well, still. Should the two have the same class/style? as ideally the two should match color. as both are progress "dots where where you need to do stuff, and long progressbar where you wait and get entertained by a slideshow"22:58
ochosimhm, let me test it and i'll tell you22:59
ochosias i said, i would assume that it should actually look fine in greybird22:59
ochosiso most likely everything can stay as it is22:59
xnoxok. but let me know if you want to style it better.22:59
ochosiactually i'm not 100% sure that the two would have to match for consistency22:59
ochosiprogressbar != progressdots23:00
ochosiprogressbar is bound to time, progressdots are bound to number of pages23:00
ochosiprogressdots are accurate, progressbars are useless (often)23:00
ochosixnox: if i already have an up-to-date vbox of R, i could run ubiquity there directly as well, right?23:02
xnoxochosi: for some value of run.23:02
ochosihm? sorry, how?23:02
xnoxochosi: you can't complete the install so you can run it up-to partitioning.23:03
ochosiah ok23:03
ochosiyeah, i just wanna see it, that's all, so it should be fine23:03
ochosiwow, 280megs of depends23:03
ochosinot bad :}23:03
ochosiit seems to pull in half of kde23:04
xnoxochosi: you want: apt-get install ubiquity ubiquity-frontend-gtk23:05
xnoxto get the gtk one instead of kde.23:05
ochosiah yeah, much better23:05
ochosithanks23:05
pleia2Noskcaj: when you have some time, I'm brainstorming a mailing list + blog post that would be an updated version of http://xubuntu.org/news/help-test-xubuntu/23:05
ochosixnox: btw, i really appreciate you hanging out here. i remember when i fixed that stupid compositing problem of the ubiquity session with xfwm4 you were a great help!23:07
pleia2we no longer do untracked short/long tests like described there really23:07
xnoxochosi: np. I pop in and go really, though ;-)23:07
pleia2Noskcaj: draft here http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/jZSPPjyJ9K23:08
ochosixnox: that's fine, but these days any cross-desktop effort is highly appreciated! :)23:08
pleia2(and anyone else interested ))23:08
ochosixnox: there you go, looks really fine imo: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-120940am.php23:10
ochosibtw, i assumed that the dots would work like a pager, i.e. not fill up one after another but have a moving dot that indicates only the current page23:11
ochosi(libtool is installed)23:15
ochosioops, wrong chan ^23:15
Noskcajpleia2, looking at it now, i was busy trying to set a world record23:18
pleia2Noskcaj: all I actually wrote was an outline of what I want to see in the post23:20
pleia2this is my sneaky way of making you write what I want to see23:20
pleia2:)23:20
Noskcaj:)23:24

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