[01:06] <bluesabre> micahg, I don't know what dh7 means
[01:08] <micahg> bluesabre: short form dh
[01:11] <bluesabre> ah, does it work to use a later version of debhelper (not really sure how to help at this point)
[01:11] <micahg> not that I know of (dh7 is the form of debian/rules that you're using)
[01:12] <micahg> so, I can't get it to build without overriding dh_auto_configure, but if I do that, I get a build with no python files installed
[01:13] <bluesabre> I think the quickly packaging uses version 8
[01:13] <micahg> shouldn't matter, the debhelper used is the version in raring which is 9.x
[01:20] <ochosi> hey
[01:23] <bluesabre> hey micahg, I think liviu may have gotten it.  https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable/+packages
[01:23] <ochosi> Len-nb: display hotplugging is implemented in xfce4-settings in git, it currently brings up the minimal dialog (optionally) if you add a second screen (caveat: doesn't work with all analog setups, digital should be fine in general)
[01:25] <ochosi> micahg: not sure that got lost in your backlog or maybe you also don't/didn't have time for it, but i wanted to bring up the gmusicbrowser release again
[01:25] <micahg> bluesabre: for precise, not quantal (same issue I'm having in raring)
[01:26] <micahg> ochosi: yeah, I have it on my list, will try to get it in for beta 1
[01:27] <micahg> bluesabre: also, we want to ship py files, not pyc files
[01:27] <ochosi> micahg: thanks a lot! i know it was/is onshort notice, but the release was just a short while ago..
[01:27] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'm not really up to speed on that, but have you talked to anyone yet about getting parole 0.5 into R?
[01:27] <micahg> bluesabre: right, there's no dh_python2 in precise
[01:28] <micahg> ochosi: already in
[01:28] <ochosi> oh, awesome!
[01:28] <ochosi> thanks again :)
[01:29] <bluesabre> micahg, so the packaging he used in precise (just tested and it works in precise) wouldn't work in later releases?
[01:32] <micahg> bluesabre: oh, hrm, I'm thinking of lucid
[01:33] <micahg> he's not using dh_python2 at all
[01:33] <bluesabre> but it does seem to work
[01:43] <ochosi> time to sleep, night!
[01:43] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[03:25] <bluesabre> micahg, did catfish make it?
[03:38] <micahg> bluesabre: not yet
[03:41] <micahg> bluesabre: I'll try again this weekend maybe
[03:42] <bluesabre> micahg, thanks!
[03:42] <micahg> it would probably help if I got a local build workinging, I'll read through the ‎files and see if I missed anyth
[03:48] <bluesabre> cool, if you need anything from me, let me know
[03:50] <micahg> thanks
[04:41] <skellat> knome pleia2 micahg Rick Spencer has proposals up for editing on the Wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCadence
[04:42] <micahg> skellat: yeah, I'll be looking at that next week
[04:42] <skellat> knome pleia2 micahg The relevant e-mail is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-March/036872.html
[04:43] <skellat> micahg: It looks like the deadline Mr. Spencer has put into place for putting something to Tech Board is March 18th.  I'll need to know from knome about when he wants the hangout/virtual meeting/conference call arranged for now.
[04:43] <micahg> next tech board meeting is then
[04:45] <skellat> Hmm
[04:45] <pleia2> yeah, I find the "every 6 months but only support for 7-8 months proposal very interesting for my personal uses ;)
[04:45] <skellat> I get ubuntu-devel in digest mode so I'm reacting on the fly as I only got the digest in the past couple minutes
[04:45] <pleia2> but I hate change, so there is that
[04:45] <micahg> yes, that's what I'm shooting for + maybe a rolling release tacked on
[04:46] <pleia2> I am sympathetic to the argument that freeze time is loss productivity for folks who aren't doing fixes, so having something roll on through that is compelling
[04:47] <pleia2> (or even open the next +1 as soon as +1 freezes)
[04:47] <pleia2> which I guess is just rolling with different words :)
[04:47] <skellat> In terms of psychological stresses in the community, I favor letting 13.04 finish but then not have a 13.10 while we take the time to retool to have a firm foundation to make all this work before we start gearing up for 14.04
[04:47] <micahg> I think the win/win here is 6 mo cadence with ~7 mo support that's created from the stable part of the rolling release at ~month 4.5 of the cycle
[04:48] <skellat> micahg: Isn't that essential Fedora-style support length?
[04:48] <micahg> ni idea
[04:49] <Unit193> I'm good with 6 month releases, but shorter support time.  Generally those people upgrade, the rest stick at an LTS.
[04:49] <pleia2> skellat: welcome by the way, you've been here for several days and I haven't said so, always nice to have new people come and join the conversation :)
[04:49] <pleia2> Unit193: right
[04:49] <Unit193> pleia2: left.
[04:52] <skellat> Actually, the 6 month cadence with 7 month support would put us at a shorter window than Fedora.  Apparently Fedora X goes End of Life at Fedora X+2.  See: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Life_Cycle#End_of_Life_.28EOL.29
[04:52] <pleia2> fedora doesn't have an LTS though, so I think they need an option for people who use it a bit longer (I don't know who these people are)
[04:53] <micahg> right, so 13 mo would match fedora, I don't think we can win with that though
[04:53] <micahg> + pleia2's point
[04:53] <micahg> pleia2: there's CentOS for LTS type stuff though
[04:53] <pleia2> fedora always structured me as development for red hat
[04:53] <pleia2> yeah
[04:54] <skellat> RHEL: You paid for it.  CentOS: You didn't pay for it.  Fedora: You're either a developer or you want a wild ride.
[04:54] <micahg> one of the criteria here is quality so that upgrades from release -> release are basically seemless
[04:54] <micahg> *seamless
[04:54] <Unit193> But if you like Ubuntu, but just don't like release upgrades...
[04:54] <pleia2> apparently english is not my strong suit tonight, you know what I mean
[04:54] <micahg> Unit193: LTS FTW :)
[04:54] <Unit193> micahg: That was a reply to the CentOS comment.
[04:55] <skellat> Liking Ubuntu but not liking release upgrades stays too much within a Microsoft-created paradigm.  Yes, there are probably still tons and tons of machines out there running XP.  How do you entice those folks to upgrade?  Do they have the hardware *able* to survive/support an upgrade?
[04:56] <micahg> LTS is for that, 5 yr support
[04:56] <skellat> XP is well past that now, though.
[04:56] <micahg> XP ends its life support in April
[04:56] <pleia2> XP was an anomaly
[04:57] <pleia2> MS will never support something for that along again
[04:57] <skellat> Somehow it survived 11 years
[04:57] <micahg> yeah, XP was only supported that long due to its replacement products not being good
[04:57] <micahg> and the first "upgrade" took 6 years to get out the door
[04:59] <skellat> micahg: Could you give us a bumper-sticker or three sized explainer on the derived distro notion?
[04:59] <micahg> I'd rather avoid it :)
[05:00] <skellat> Okay
[05:00]  * pleia2 heads off to dinner
[05:00]  * skellat recognizes it is now really, really early Friday morning in northeast Ohio
[05:02] <skellat> Well, if we can come up with a date and time for our Xubuntu Huddle I will get it arranged.  My e-mail address is up to date on Launchpad.
[05:03] <micahg> skellat: the basic idea is to use the LTS as a base and then override the packages that a flavor would want to backport for stuff that can't be backported
[05:04] <skellat> Yep
[05:04] <skellat> I've got a cat invading and I apparently need to get some sleep
[05:05] <skellat> So I bid you good night micahg as I head off to chase down Shadow
[05:05]  * skellat gets ready for bedtime
[11:35] <ochosi> meh, kubuntu/kde - canonical flamewar is exhausting...
[11:36] <Unit193> At least sabdfl got in on it. ;)
[11:36] <ochosi> doesn't make it much less exhausting though for me
[11:37] <Unit193> (Kidding.)
[11:38] <ochosi> k :)
[17:24] <micahg> knome: did you want me to add xfce4-* to the supported seed?
[19:08] <knome> micahg, yes, if you think that's doable for our team
[19:08] <micahg> there aren't too many, it just means that we're open to bugs and obligating ourselves to fix issues
[19:11] <knome> i think that sounds good, but since i'm not able to fix bugs, i need your evaluation if it's doable/needed
[19:24] <bluesabre_1> knome secretly advises me and ochosi on how to fix the bugs in our projects
[19:25] <bluesabre_1> don't let him fool you micahg
[19:26] <knome> hah.
[19:42] <LaserJock> hi all. I installed Xubuntu 12.10 this week after a year or two of not touching *buntu and I wanted to say it really rocks. You've done a fantastic job.
[19:43] <pleia2> thanks LaserJock <3
[19:47] <LaserJock> so I read on the blog that for 13.04 you're going to 1GB, is there more going on there than GIMP and Gnumeric?
[19:48] <pleia2> some languages
[19:48] <pleia2> part of the change is we didn't want to make micahg spend all his nights and weekends scrambling for space anymore, so leaving several (even hundred) megs free helps a lot
[19:49] <LaserJock> sure
[19:49] <micahg> LaserJock: anything you think we're missing?
[19:49] <LaserJock> not particularly, I like having Gnumeric on there
[19:49] <LaserJock> I just wondered as I know how cramped things can get
[19:49] <LaserJock> but since Xubuntu seems lighter I wondered why 1GB in particular
[19:50] <LaserJock> but I know languages are always a big part of the space, are you going to ship more than Ubuntu?
[19:50] <micahg> well, I think we decided 10 most popular since we have the space now
[19:50] <micahg> the goal is to keep the image between 800 and 900 MB
[19:51] <micahg> we're under 800MB ATM
[19:51] <LaserJock> that seems nice. 700 is just not enough, but nobody wants to have to download 4GB isos :-)
[19:51] <micahg> I offered to make a kitchen sink type DVD version with more stuff, but there didn't seem to be enough interest in testing
[19:52] <LaserJock> most people probably just download particular set of "goodies" after install anyway
[19:52] <micahg> 700 is only problematic due to the bloated core that we inherit
[19:53] <LaserJock> yeah, I just wondered since Ubuntu still fits why you would go more
[19:53] <micahg> nah, Ubuntu is at 800MB right now
[19:53] <LaserJock> ah, I haven't looked for a while
[19:55] <LaserJock> so did FeatureFreeze happen? (I'm looking at the release schedule)
[19:55] <LaserJock> I've been watching the "big debate" on Planet Ubuntu but haven't tracked ubuntu-devel
[19:55] <Noskcaj> scottbomb, how did you manager to get through the installer without any bugs?
[19:56] <Noskcaj> *manage
[19:57] <bluesabre_1> for me, the only guaranteed way to make it through an ubuntu install is to not install drivers or codecs at install-time
[19:57] <bluesabre_1> but I'll be testing installation this weekend on my laptop, hoping for the best
[19:57] <bluesabre_1> :)
[19:58] <Noskcaj> bluesabre_1, that may be because that is one of the 4 bugs i can find in the installer ATM
[19:59] <Noskcaj> to whoever has just added the progress bar in the xubuntu installer, thanks. could you put a marker in as to where the installation starts?
[20:00] <micahg> bluesabre_1: if that's true, please file bugs with appropriate logs so the issues can get fixed
[20:02] <bluesabre_1> sure thing
[20:05] <Noskcaj> also to whoever added that bar, you didn't quite get it right
[20:05] <knome> Noskcaj, i don't think it's anybody from the xubuntu team. it's most probably the ubiquity maintainers that did it
[20:06] <Noskcaj> knome, ok, it only appeared today, i was wondering if it's ubiquity wide. i will check soon
[20:07] <xnox> knome: Noskcaj: yes the bar is new.
[20:07] <xnox> it has "progress dots" to indicate how many pages/steps there are.
[20:08] <xnox> it looks good in ubuntu default theme (orange on black) but some other themes may want to increase contrast between background and progressbars.
[20:08] <xnox> I can help with gtk+3 css vars that need adjustment.
[20:08] <knome> ochosi, ^
[20:09] <Noskcaj> xnox, the issue is it goes 1, 2,4,6,7 then ignores the second half of the installer
[20:10] <xnox> Noskcaj: yeah, I spotted that as well. Needs fixing. I should file a bug.
[20:11] <Noskcaj> yes, tell me if you do and i will add it to my report on the iso tracker
[20:12] <xnox> bug 1152746
[20:13] <Noskcaj> xnox, does that bug include the skipping as well?
[20:13] <xnox> Noskcaj: skipping is normal.
[20:14] <xnox> Noskcaj: e.g. there is wifi step and if there is no wifi/internet already connected we just gain a dot "for free"
[20:14] <xnox> (that's the 3rd one)
[20:14] <xnox> not sure where the 5th one went though. =)
[20:14] <Noskcaj> ok, and the 5th?
[21:45] <knome> micahg, do we want to freeze more than what's freezed in FF?
[21:52] <bluesabre_1> glad that message is for micahg, because that just sounds confusing
[21:52] <knome> hah
[21:52] <knome> we can decide to freeze xfce* for beta1
[21:52] <knome> for example
[21:52] <knome> or catfish, if we don't want bluesabre_1 poking in!
[21:53] <micahg> knome: I was hoping to upload catfish and gmusicbrowser still
[21:53] <micahg> and gimp
[21:53] <bluesabre_1> +3
[21:53] <bluesabre_1> catfish + gmb would be awesome
[21:54] <knome> micahg, sure. if we dont', i'll reply to stgraber we're opting in for beta 1
[21:54] <micahg> gmb and gimp I know I can do :)
[21:54] <micahg> well, gimp I know I can do, gmb if I get a freeze exception
[21:57] <bluesabre_1> btw, liviu got quantal and raring catfish packages into the ppa, https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/catfish-stable
[21:58] <bluesabre_1> heading out now, bbl
[21:58] <bluesabre_1> have fun guys!
[21:58] <knome> bluesabre_1, hf
[21:59]  * micahg wonders what python-distutils-extra is used for
[22:02] <micahg> I think I see the problem with catfish, it's installing pyc files instead of py files which is why dh_python2 chokes
[22:02]  * micahg files upstream bug
[22:06]  * micahg will have to talk to some python people over the weekend
[22:39] <ochosi> xnox: ubiquity, css, gtk3, vars -> progress dots?
[22:50] <xnox> ochosi: yes.
[22:50] <xnox> ochosi: one sec.
[22:50] <xnox> ochosi: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DU8LtP4EIjo/UTEADqZhCSI/AAAAAAAAAyI/WKWh5NbTC48/s754/049.png
[22:50] <xnox> this is new ubiquity.
[22:51] <ochosi> oh i see
[22:51] <xnox> the "dots" are just very small progress-bars.
[22:51] <ochosi> so it's about the bottom bar
[22:51] <ochosi> yup, i get it
[22:51] <ochosi> are those pixmaps or how are the dots drawn?
[22:51] <xnox> it's a GtkProgressBar of size 10x10px.
[22:51] <ochosi> ah :)
[22:51] <xnox> so in ubiquity they look nice - orange on darkbg color.
[22:51] <xnox> but in xubuntu/lubuntu they will be light on light color.
[22:52] <ochosi> it should be blue on grey
[22:52] <ochosi> that's fine imo
[22:52] <ochosi> i assume we have no screener of that yet, right?
[22:52] <xnox> well sure, as long as people can see which ones are full & which once are hollow.
[22:52] <xnox> ochosi: i would love to get derivates to add screenshots to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/SlideDecks
[22:53] <ochosi> mhm
[22:53] <xnox> ochosi: e.g. lubuntu/xubuntu/kubuntu slide decks =)
[22:53] <xnox> such that when I work on the installer I can have a sence how it will look like.
[22:53] <ochosi> do those progress-dots have a widget-name or are they generic progressbars
[22:54] <ochosi> i.e. can i theme them independently or would i have to change the progressbars in all of ubiquity?
[22:56] <ochosi> another question: this version of ubiquity is in the daily images already? then i'll simply download and test it, then i can also upload some screenshots for you
[22:56] <xnox> ochosi: so its progressbars inside GtkEventBox called "progress_eventbox"
[22:56] <xnox> ochosi: yeap, it's in the dailies.
[22:56] <xnox> ochosi: I guess I should apply a better style name to them.....
[22:57]  * xnox will ponder about it.
[22:57] <ochosi> hehe
[22:57] <ochosi> progressdots?
[22:58] <xnox> ochosi: cause there is normal "progressbar" as well, still. Should the two have the same class/style? as ideally the two should match color. as both are progress "dots where where you need to do stuff, and long progressbar where you wait and get entertained by a slideshow"
[22:59] <ochosi> mhm, let me test it and i'll tell you
[22:59] <ochosi> as i said, i would assume that it should actually look fine in greybird
[22:59] <ochosi> so most likely everything can stay as it is
[22:59] <xnox> ok. but let me know if you want to style it better.
[22:59] <ochosi> actually i'm not 100% sure that the two would have to match for consistency
[23:00] <ochosi> progressbar != progressdots
[23:00] <ochosi> progressbar is bound to time, progressdots are bound to number of pages
[23:00] <ochosi> progressdots are accurate, progressbars are useless (often)
[23:02] <ochosi> xnox: if i already have an up-to-date vbox of R, i could run ubiquity there directly as well, right?
[23:02] <xnox> ochosi: for some value of run.
[23:02] <ochosi> hm? sorry, how?
[23:03] <xnox> ochosi: you can't complete the install so you can run it up-to partitioning.
[23:03] <ochosi> ah ok
[23:03] <ochosi> yeah, i just wanna see it, that's all, so it should be fine
[23:03] <ochosi> wow, 280megs of depends
[23:03] <ochosi> not bad :}
[23:04] <ochosi> it seems to pull in half of kde
[23:05] <xnox> ochosi: you want: apt-get install ubiquity ubiquity-frontend-gtk
[23:05] <xnox> to get the gtk one instead of kde.
[23:05] <ochosi> ah yeah, much better
[23:05] <ochosi> thanks
[23:05] <pleia2> Noskcaj: when you have some time, I'm brainstorming a mailing list + blog post that would be an updated version of http://xubuntu.org/news/help-test-xubuntu/
[23:07] <ochosi> xnox: btw, i really appreciate you hanging out here. i remember when i fixed that stupid compositing problem of the ubiquity session with xfwm4 you were a great help!
[23:07] <pleia2> we no longer do untracked short/long tests like described there really
[23:07] <xnox> ochosi: np. I pop in and go really, though ;-)
[23:08] <pleia2> Noskcaj: draft here http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/jZSPPjyJ9K
[23:08] <ochosi> xnox: that's fine, but these days any cross-desktop effort is highly appreciated! :)
[23:08] <pleia2> (and anyone else interested ))
[23:10] <ochosi> xnox: there you go, looks really fine imo: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03092013-120940am.php
[23:11] <ochosi> btw, i assumed that the dots would work like a pager, i.e. not fill up one after another but have a moving dot that indicates only the current page
[23:15] <ochosi> (libtool is installed)
[23:15] <ochosi> oops, wrong chan ^
[23:18] <Noskcaj> pleia2, looking at it now, i was busy trying to set a world record
[23:20] <pleia2> Noskcaj: all I actually wrote was an outline of what I want to see in the post
[23:20] <pleia2> this is my sneaky way of making you write what I want to see
[23:20] <pleia2> :)
[23:24] <Noskcaj> :)