[00:07] <Bauer1> huh, interesting.. well if its the same "behaviour" on other distros as well, not 13.04 specific problem then.. like I said not used to this behaviour in linux partitions
[01:13] <bandit-led> any one seeing kernel 3.8 breaking console on laptops?
[01:16] <bandit-led> i am finding bug reports on fedora but not ubuntu
[01:20] <bandit-led> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1241071
[01:32] <bjorkintosh> so i succesfully run 13.04 on my machine till i got the latest updates.
[01:33] <bjorkintosh> now my machine refuses to boot. at all.
[01:33] <bekks> bandit-led: 3.8 worked fine, so does 3.9rc1
[01:33] <bandit-led> bekks,  well crap i dont want to biscet this back to 3.7
[01:33] <bandit-led> bisect'
[01:34] <bjorkintosh> what is bisect?
[01:34] <bandit-led> its working great on my desktop but the laptop is broken with any-thing other than 3.7's
[01:34] <bandit-led> bjorkintosh,  its building the kernel looking for a bug
[01:35] <alankila> bjorkintosh: bisection is the process of finding a point in a line by dividing it to two at the middle and then testing whether a condition is true at that point, an recursing to the remaining section
[01:35] <bandit-led> any time i switch to console or logout with any of the 3.8's it blackscreens and wont come back
[01:35] <bekks> bandit-led: It is rolling back each single git commit until the bug doesnt occur anymore.
[01:35] <bjorkintosh> are there any known issues? mine booted just fine until 3.9
[01:35] <bjorkintosh> alankila, hehe. thanks.
[01:35] <alankila> bjorkintosh: in case of git, you look for the change that broke stuff by starting at a commit in the middle and testing if the kernel is broke or not
[01:36] <bekks> btree stuff.
[01:36] <bandit-led> must be a laptop specific thing
[01:36] <bjorkintosh> i suspect it has to do with the graphics card.
[01:36] <bandit-led> maybe i will build 3.9rc1 and see if that works
[01:36] <bjorkintosh> bandit-led, what sort of gfx card was it?
[01:36] <bjorkintosh> or laptop?
[01:36] <bandit-led> tits a nvidia geforce 7300go
[01:36] <bjorkintosh> mine's a samsung.
[01:37] <bandit-led> 6 year old card
[01:37] <bjorkintosh> ah. i think it's an nvidia i have as well.
[01:38] <bandit-led> maybe when 13.04 is out we find more bug reports :)
[01:38] <bjorkintosh> till then, what's my best option for recovering from this snafu?
[01:38] <bandit-led> you getting any errors?
[01:38] <bjorkintosh> nope. just the capslock key blinking.
[01:39] <bjorkintosh> err. light, not key.
[01:39] <bjorkintosh> ah wait. i see something.
[01:39] <alankila> hmm I got update to nvidia-310. Does that mean I can't boot now?
[01:39] <bandit-led> bjorkintosh,  thats a kernel panic
[01:39] <bjorkintosh> kernel panic - not syncing: VFS Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0)
[01:40] <bjorkintosh> i get that with the 3.9, which worked just fine.
[01:40] <bekks> bjorkintosh: Then you forgot to build the device driver you need.
[01:40] <bjorkintosh> i don't get that with 3.11, which was what i was rebooting to. after that, it does nothing.
[01:40] <bekks> 3.11 --whats that?
[01:40] <bjorkintosh> sorry. the kernel.
[01:40] <bjorkintosh> 3.8.something.11
[01:41] <bandit-led> 3.8.0.11
[01:41] <bekks> There is no 3.8.0.11 at kernel.org :)
[01:41] <bandit-led> 3.8.0-11'
[01:41] <bekks> ah. 3.8.0 build #11
[01:41] <bjorkintosh> correct.
[01:42] <bandit-led> i was confused for a second when he said 3.9
[01:42] <bjorkintosh> typically, it's able to recover gracefully by using an older build. but none of them are working.
[01:42] <bekks> 3.11 was confusing too:P
[01:42] <bjorkintosh> sorry.
[01:42] <bjorkintosh> never had a problem with ubuntu+1, till now.
[01:43] <bandit-led> i have never had this many problems with +1 until this release cycle
[01:43] <bandit-led> bjorkintosh, hope you get some help figuring it out
[01:44] <shann> hi i found little bug in raring
[01:44] <shann> when start firefox in large screen at right a litte band appear
[01:49] <shann> http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9145/littleband.png screensaver
[01:50] <shann> in quantal no problems
[01:51] <shann> when resize dash, the window automatically resize correctly but i close and reopen the window, the bug again.
[02:08] <raccarti> Where did http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ntfsprogs go in raring?
[02:15] <IdleOne> ntfs-3g
[02:16] <IdleOne> !info ntfs-3g
[02:16] <raccarti> Already installed. But partitionmanager won't format in NTFS.
[02:16] <IdleOne> hmm, that i don't know about, sorry.
[02:17] <raccarti> In quantal it needed ntfsprogs to do so. And http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/partitionmanager actually lists the "Package not available" ntfsprogs as a suggested dependency even in raring.
[02:18] <IdleOne> !info ntfs-config
[02:18] <IdleOne> could that be what you need?
[02:18] <IdleOne> I'm taking shots in the dark here to be honest
[02:18] <raccarti> Could be. Worth a try.
[02:21] <raccarti> Ah, no, it's a little GUI tool which has options to "Enable write support for external device" and "Enable write support for internal device". partitionmanager doesn't care either way.
[02:22] <IdleOne> I tried
[02:22] <IdleOne> :/
[02:22] <raccarti> Yeah, thanks for the suggestion anyway.
[02:22] <raccarti> Looked reasonable.
[02:23] <dr_willis> ntgs-config can be problematic at times..
[02:24] <raccarti> I'll admit to not being totally certain why one would want to use it.
[02:25] <dr_willis> it creates fstab entries fir your ntfs partitions and can tweak the udev rules
[02:25] <raccarti> Oh, for dual-booters.
[02:25] <dr_willis> it normally works.. but can fail to exit. and have other weird errors/bugs
[02:26] <dr_willis> or for people with usb flash in ntgs/vfat
[02:26] <raccarti> Well the fstab part won't matter. I guess udev does
[02:27] <raccarti> But, it mostly seems odd to go through that effort and restrict it to ntfs (and it does vfat too? it doesn't obviously indicate that). The fstab parsing and the udev update logic is basically identical for any of these FSes
[02:27] <dr_willis> it does vfat
[02:28] <dr_willis> and ntfs
[02:30] <raccarti> Any idea about ntfsprogs or otherwise formatting NTFS on raring?
[02:31] <IdleOne> from the description of partitionmanager it says "Note that to gain support for a
[02:31] <IdleOne>  specific file system other than ext2/3/4, you should install the corresponding suggested package."
[02:32] <IdleOne> make sure you have all the suggested packages installed
[02:32] <raccarti> Yes; and the suggested package for ntfs is apparently ntfsprogs. I linked to http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/partitionmanager above
[02:32] <IdleOne> ah.
[02:32] <IdleOne> !search ntfsprogs
[02:33] <IdleOne> helpful indeed
[02:33] <raccarti> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ntfsprogs says it exists right through quantal.
[02:34] <IdleOne> either it has been dropped (which I doubt) or it is a bug.
[02:37] <trism> raccarti: ntfsprogs is empty in quantal, it's just transitional for ntfs-3g
[02:39] <raccarti> Okay. So is the best way to persuade raring's partitionmanager to format NTFS to install quantal's empty transitional ntfsprogs?
[02:39] <IdleOne> So the question is why doesn't partitionmanager let him format to ntfs?
[02:39] <raccarti> If it's empty, it at least can't do any harm.
[02:41] <raccarti> dpkg says: "ii  ntfs-3g               1:2013.1.13-1+0 amd64           read/write NTFS driver for FUSE"
[02:42] <raccarti> And it indeed contains /sbin/{mmkntfs,mkfs.ntfs}
[02:42] <raccarti> So what is the actual indicator that partitionmanager is checking for that I need to fool it?
[02:49] <raccarti> Ah, installing quantal's ntfsprogs does not suffice. And indeed it's just two files in /usr/share/doc anyway: http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/all/ntfsprogs/filelist
[02:54] <trism> raccarti: looking at the code it checks for ntfsresize, ntfslabel, mkfs.ntfs, ntfsclone, dd, and blkid, you aren't missing any of those are you?
[02:56] <raccarti> Oh. Wtf. It's a dangling symlink: /sbin/mkfs.ntfs -> /usr/sbin/mkntfs
[02:57] <raccarti> Rest exist.
[02:57] <raccarti> However /sbin/mkntfs does exist.
[02:58] <raccarti> So it's pointing the wrong place. Just a moment, trying to hook up this symlink system...
[02:59] <raccarti> And that does it. Created a symlink in /usr/sbin to /sbin/mkntfs
[02:59] <raccarti> Works.
[03:03] <raccarti> So: (1) ntfs-3g sets up its symlink incorrectly; and (2) partitionmanager should replace ntfsprogs with ntfs-3g as a suggested dependency.
[03:07] <trism> raccarti: bug 1148541 for (1) it seems
[03:09] <raccarti> Ah, well, at least it's already been spotted and filed.
[03:09] <raccarti> (2) is less important since ntfs-3g's a default install anyway.
[03:14] <bcbc2> Anyone else have their brightness Fn-Keys stop working and backlight off after resume from suspend? I'm running a Dell N4010 with intel GPU? bug 1105604
[03:19] <psusi> is it just me or is the raring-server-amd64.iso daily image completely fscking broken?  trying to run it under a vm and it can't find the cdrom no matter what I do, even when I manaully mount it in /cdrom on the other tty
[03:20] <alankila> bcbc2: happens to me on nvidia gpu
[03:22] <bcbc2> alankila: it's been over a month now... wondering if I was alone ;) Good to know I'm not
[03:22] <bcbc2> not sure if the devs are aware of it though
[03:23] <alankila> while it would be convenient to have that work, I'm merely grateful about the fact that suspend and resume actually works
[03:23] <alankila> I think there was a 10 year period where it never worked on any linux laptop I had, so it's small beans that I can't change brightness now
[03:24] <bcbc2> fair enough. but the dev releases have been pretty good since precise. And when the same thing happened there it was fixed very promptly.
[03:25] <bcbc2> also having the backlight now off after suspend, you have to blind type to get the brightness up again.
[03:26] <alankila> oh? for me it picks the brightness setting I left when I went for suspend
[03:26] <alankila> it just doesn't change it afterwards
[03:27] <bcbc2> it just started blacking out the past couple of weeks. before that there was no difference after suspend
[03:28] <bcbc2> my fn brightness keys don't work so I have to echo | tee the brightness in manually
[03:28] <bjorkintosh> i discovered a possible reason for which 13.04 is not booting on my machine.
[03:28] <bjorkintosh> my /boot is empty!
[03:36] <psusi> bjorkintosh, that would be a problem ;)
[03:39] <dr_willis> boot got the  boot!
[03:46] <bjorkintosh> something to do with grub, perhaps?
[03:47] <psusi> did you try to set up a separate /boot when you installed or something?
[03:47] <bjorkintosh> no. it has always been separate.
[03:47] <bjorkintosh> perhaps i should just edit fstab
[03:48] <psusi> umm.. so you did manual partitioning and told it to use a separate /boot?
[03:48] <bjorkintosh> no. all of this was done automatically with 12.04 when i installed it last year. never asked for a separate /boot
[03:48] <psusi> then you don't have one
[03:49] <bjorkintosh> i don't have one what?
[03:49] <psusi> in which case, it shouldn't be possible for it to be empty... installing has to put a kernel in there at least
[03:49] <psusi> ./boot
[03:49] <psusi> partition that is
[03:49] <bjorkintosh> i do. /dev/sda2
[03:49] <bjorkintosh> it is just not in /etc/fstab for some reason.
[03:50] <psusi> well. if you chose manual partitioning and created one, it should have been added to /etc/fstab
[03:51] <bjorkintosh> wow. it even discarded all the settings for my display.
[03:51] <bjorkintosh> this was rough.
[04:25] <MoPac> Hi all - I'm really suffering from bugs in 12.10 with workspace management, particularly breakage of edge scrolling and the OS's amnesia about my custom keyboard shortcuts.  I'm hoping to get a sense of the resolution of these issues in Ringtail
[04:25] <MoPac> (e.g., https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/964270 as one example)
[04:26] <MoPac> And if it's working smoothly in Ringtail, are there serious problems I need to look out for in upgrading now?
[04:29] <dr_willis> hmm.. i dident notivce edge scrolling working earlier today.. dident pay  much attention to it. i tend to use the move to destop type menu items
[04:31] <MoPac> dr_willis: At the moment in 12.10, my workspace management is basically unusable. My keyboard shortcuts get forgotten, edge scrolling stops working after one scroll until I move manually....  Since Devilspie's workspace/viewport setting function appears broken, I depend on an xdotool script to engage my keyboard shortcut before window opening.  With the shortcut forgotten, it breaks
[04:31] <MoPac> So a ringtail is looking appetizing if this compiz/unity workspace stuff is fixed there
[04:32] <MoPac> sorry, edge scrolling was a brain fart on my part
[04:32] <MoPac> I mean edge flipping
[04:56] <bcbc2> does anyone else get the corrupted desktop where an image of old open windows remain frozen? This happens both on 12.10 and 13.04. bug 1067580
[05:00] <bcbc2> I doubt whether I filed the bug against the right package. But there's one with no response after 5 months and still happening.
[05:01] <bcbc2> still it's more a minor irritation - sometimes I click on stuff and wonder why nothing happens, and then realise I closed the windows already :)
[05:04] <bcbc2> but on the plus side, the new swirly ubuntu icon in the launcher is really cool :P
[05:20] <dr_willis> really when i upgraded to 13.04 i dident notice much of a change. ;) guess it is still using  my old themes/settings..  i did notice  the icon was differnt. other  then that.. not much else.
[05:20] <dr_willis> except  window-quicklists
[05:20] <dr_willis> was the radio  lens in 12.04?  :) i  noticed it in 13.04 -
[05:36] <bjorkintosh> i sorta fixed my issue.
[05:41] <bcbc2> they also removed the multiple desktops by default if I recall correctly and I saw the other day that the desktop switcher was animated. All minor stuff. Actually I prefer that there is no major UI changes because it makes all the guides obsolete and you need screenshots by release.
[08:38] <user82> hello. daily builds for today should arrive in around 6 hours i suppose?
[08:38] <user82> somewhat 9am?
[08:41] <smartboyhw> user82, why don't you use the latest daily build and upgrade to the latest packages?
[08:42] <user82> smartboyhw i want to set up a usb stick once that then does not get connected to the internet again. it is kind of special porpose it is only there to run a app on my neigbpurs pc and nothing else
[08:42] <user82> and since i g2g now anyway i will start the download later
[08:42] <smartboyhw> user82, well then can't the app run on 12.10 or 12.04.2?
[08:43] <user82> smartboyhw it is a brand new mac with thunderbolt...iirc the support is under heavy development and *should* be better with linux 3.8
[08:43] <smartboyhw> user82, OK. Just use the latest daily build then
[08:43] <user82> i will try it at least
[08:45] <user82> (it might get messy with a retina display over thunderbolt anyway ;) )
[10:56] <tux_> anyone running mir ? https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/staging
[11:22] <smartboyhw> tux_, not me at least
[11:26] <rohdef> I've been trying to install 13.04, but the installer seems to freeze at drive setup, what can I do?
[11:28] <alankila> rohdef: I've quit the installer and relaunched it. Doing this few times helped.
[11:28] <alankila> Also you can install ubuntu-server and then just install ubuntu-desktop
[11:28] <alankila> provided you have networking that the server install can cope with. Wireless drivers appear to not be featured on the server disk, sadly
[11:29] <alankila> I generally start my ubuntus from the server install because it's text based, over quicker, and more likely to work
[11:29] <alankila> for instance on a macbook air, the official desktop installer gives me nouveau, and it is so broken it is a miracle if the OS hangs together long enough to finish installation so you can install nvidia driver instead
[11:30] <alankila> with nouveau even gnome terminal just gave me multicolored squares instead of glyphs. :-/
[11:36] <rohdef> alankila, hmm will consider the server option, although I'll try to relaunch installer a few times
[11:36] <rohdef> alankila, do you know if usb modems work on server?
[11:36] <alankila> no
[11:36] <alankila> I doubt it
[11:36] <rohdef> I only have wifi and cell phone access atm
[11:36] <alankila> it's very much wired networking kind of thing
[11:36] <rohdef> blast
[11:37] <alankila> though with ubuntu server I was able to connect the macbook's broadcom wireless by manually writing a wpa_supplicant conf
[11:37] <alankila> so that was doable at least
[11:37] <alankila> so anyway it might or might not work. You should examine the package lists of the server disk and see if it has the stuff you think you need
[11:37] <rohdef> alankila, could do that although I recall wpa_supplicant as a pain
[11:37] <alankila> and you have to configure it without network manager or such things
[11:38] <rohdef> well I've done a lot of manual network setups through time, but not many with wifi, I used to use gentoo ;)
[11:40] <alankila> but yeah it's kinda disappointing that the installer is right now sort of broken
[11:41] <alankila> and it probably has a good reason why it's broken, and I suspect it has something to do with a disk scan. It likely looks for something that only terminates after a long timeout
[11:41] <alankila> on the other hand installers have been broken recently a lot. I remember hearing that fedora's new gui installer is totally idiotic as well
[11:42] <alankila> so the rule of thumb is that these things are hard to do and they have difficult minefield of problems to solve. In case of Fedora it was just some UI designer given free reign and these people rarely seem to know what they are doing, I guess.
[11:43] <alankila> disappointing given that linux could just run on microsoft's coattails and clone their installer step by step. Microsoft has likely spent a lot of money making sure most normal people can work it out.
[11:43] <rohdef> perhaps, I'll give it a few retries then
[11:43] <rohdef> well I think there's a bit more complexity in writing a *nix installer if it's to behave nicely
[11:44] <rohdef> Windows hardly care about dual boot for instance
[11:44] <alankila> I argue neither should Linux. But I already live in the world where you go buy linux laptops from the shops
[11:45] <alankila> in any case if you don't trash the partition, grub can pick it up and it's not really a problem. ntfs resize seems to work and all that. Minimal steps to support windows are possible and have in fact been done for a long time.
[11:45] <rohdef> and Linux-users for instance don't like to be forced to ext4, they want the choise between raiser, ext2-4 and whatever there is
[11:45] <rohdef> they should, dual boot is important, that's also part of why mac had a lot of success switching to Intel
[11:45] <rohdef> they can't ignore windows
[11:45] <alankila> Possible, though ubuntu's style is to just go with ext4 unless you do the whole setup manually
[11:46] <alankila> I installed with ext4 and used btrfs-convert to go with btrfs myself now.
[11:46] <rohdef> true, I like that way of doing it, because crazies like me can do manual setups, and rest can do default
[11:47] <alankila> yes, nothing wrong with that... though I do think that current linux desktop userbase can probably be ignored if it means improved mainstream acceptability
[11:48] <alankila> after all, current userbase is < 2 %, and while it has developers and such people, you don't need them if you can sell a linux product and hire your own developers to work with it. And if you reach something like OS X penetration -- around 10 % world wide, I guess -- then you are doing very well relative to other linux distributions
[11:49] <alankila> it should be doable, but it takes cash. I hoped Canonical could be the party doing this, and it sounds like shuttleworth understands this, but his way of getting there sucks.
[11:49] <alankila> so I guess we end up running something Google-originated unless Canonical is very lucky with these new innovations.
[11:50] <alankila> chromeos could be a mortal threat to all other linux distributions out there if it works well enough for regular people.
[11:51] <alankila> just like OS X sucked in almost all the people who wanted a functioning unix desktop
[11:51] <rohdef> well to be quite honest one of the reasons I think Linux don't get through is partly due to how much people like GTK+/Gnome, as far as I see it that's also part of why unity was made, to patch up the broken product
[11:53] <rohdef> I've seen a lot of patchwork projects to try and "fix" the problems with Gnome/GTK+ where I've been thinking, if all that work was put in KDE they'd come so much further :(
[11:53] <alankila> if someone took KDE and ripped out all the crap in it, that would be great
[11:53] <alankila> unity might be the KDE without the crap.
[11:54] <alankila> after all, they plan to rewrite it on top of Qt/QML, and KDE itself is trying to avoid "libkde", they want to make their applications just Qt applications as much as possible
[11:55] <alankila> so there's a kind of convergence on the horizon. Unfortunately I disagree with the UI choices that KDE people make, they have a lot of the "linux is about choice" mantra stuck in their heads, and they try to cater to everybody and do everything concurrently...
[11:55] <alankila> KDE can almost be configured to look and act nice. Almost. But I ended up uninstalling it today, because I run into bugs in it constantly.
[11:56] <alankila> and all I do is run a fullscreen terminal and fullscreen browser. It takes some effort to make that user experience suck.
[12:04] <alankila> So ... I'll check out how gnome 3 is next. I really hope they fixed the fullscreen windows being obscured by the gnome 3 top bar and stuff like that bugs that I ran into last time.
[12:14] <rohdef> alankila, hope they have, will also have to look at Gnome 3 at some point :)
[12:15] <alankila> It's kinda painful to switch between desktop environments... these things leave so many packages behind
[12:16] <alankila> if you want a clean install you'll debfoster the ubuntu-desktop (say) out first and only when you think everything has been removed, can you install something else
[12:17] <alankila> and if you configured lightdm to autologin into some environment, it's too stupid to notice that environment doesn't exist anymore
[12:17] <alankila> X flashes on and then dies
[12:17] <alankila> so many rough edges :-/
[12:20] <rohdef> agreed
[14:33] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[17:15] <skulltip> what 10" tablet is recommended for ubuntu
[17:15] <IdleOne> !touch
[17:16] <skulltip> thanks
[17:22] <skulltip> i take it i can update the tablet after installed using apt-get update and upgrade?
[17:39] <MoPac> Howdy all.  An in -place upgrade from quantal to raring has broken my system, and I'm hoping for advice on how to repair from a live quantal live USB, which I'm using now
[17:41] <MoPac> The x server never seems to have started under the upgrade -- I was able to log in a few times, but there was no ability to move windows.  I updated al packages and the kernel.  I also ran update-manager -d a couple times and followed its restart instructions
[17:42] <MoPac> But now, when I get to the login screen (at a bizarre resolution because the system can't seem to handle my display), entering my password just results in a brief flash to a full-screen terminal and then cycles back to the account login screen -- no way in
[17:43] <MoPac> Booting in safe mode seems to stop as soon as it reaches some mapped network drives that are in my fstab.  They connection attempts to them exit with code 32, and then nothing else happens
[17:44] <MoPac> *safe mode / recovery mode
[19:15] <ovidius2> hi. is this the right place for questions about kubuntu+1, too?
[19:16] <trism> ovidius2: it is, lots of kubuntu users here (not me though)
[19:17] <ovidius2> trism: thanks.
[19:20] <ovidius2> i did an update on my laptop from 12.10 to 13.04 yesterday and have two major issues.  first: networkmanager from kde does not work anymore. i need to start nm-applet to get wifi connections. is this a known problem?
[19:24] <yofel> define "does not work anymore" - crashes plasma, sees no interfaces, fails to connect, freezes, ...
[19:25] <ovidius2> yofel: sees interface, but no networks. nm-applet does everything fine. if i conect via nm-applet, kde nm widget shows me as connected as well
[19:27] <yofel> networkmanager puts its logs in /var/log/syslog. Maybe watching that while after disabling and enabling networking can tell what's wrong
[19:27] <yofel> -while
[19:28] <ovidius2> yofel: thanks. will try. and come back with results.
[19:46] <ovidius2> yofel: nothing strange to see there. the nerworkmanager widget for kde just does not show the list of wifi networks in reach. it is empty there
[19:46] <yofel> o.O
[19:46] <yofel> show more is empty too?
[20:07] <ovidius2> filled it as a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-widget-networkmanagement/+bug/1153041
[20:08] <ovidius2> yofel. thanks again for your input
[20:09] <yofel> can you please at least attach /var/log/syslog to the bug?
[20:13] <ovidius2> yofel: yes. anything else that could be helpful?
[20:14] <yofel> ovidius2: actually, haven't tried this in a while, but run 'sudo apport-collect -p network-manager 1153041'
[20:21] <ovidius2> yofel: done.
[20:21] <yofel> oh, it worked, great
[20:21] <yofel> I think that should be all that could be useful
[20:24] <krabador> i want only know if software-properties-gtk will run in so many seconds, like today raring live
[20:45] <krabador> why software-properties-gtk on raring is so heavy to load?
[21:03] <omac> I tried ubuntu one to share some files the other day.  It's very nice.
[21:24] <krabador> omac: yes, really great
[22:54] <jtaylor> why does the new software updater have A in its symbol?
[22:55] <jtaylor> I can't figure out what that could stand for
[22:56] <jtaylor> Auto update?
[23:42] <penguin42> and what has B ?