[05:43] <Kilos> hi superfly and aothers
[05:44] <Kilos> yo theblazehen 
[08:56] <Kilos> hi griffin_  simeon  
[08:57] <griffin_> Hey Kilos
[08:58] <Kilos> yo Cantide 
[08:58] <Cantide> :)
[08:58] <Cantide> hi Kilos, griffin_ :)
[08:59] <griffin_> Hi Cantide
[09:09] <magespawn> morning all
[09:13] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[09:13] <magespawn> hey kilos
[09:13] <magespawn> Kilos: 
[09:14] <magespawn> are you bloeping ye?
[09:14] <magespawn> yet
[09:15] <Kilos> lol i am running lubuntu here but it wasnt too lekker so installed mate on it and now its kiff
[09:15] <Kilos> but it goes ploeng not bloep here on xchat
[09:16] <Kilos> so much faster than kde and unity
[09:16] <magespawn> mate is one of those that i have never tried
[09:16] <Kilos> only kde install packages is quicker
[09:17] <Kilos> makes your pc work like maverick
[09:17] <Kilos> gnome2
[09:18] <Kilos> only prob so far is when i go places >home it tries to open with vlc
[09:18] <Kilos> maverick also did that long ago and i dunno how i fixed it
[09:22] <Kilos> apart from removing vlc that is
[09:23] <magespawn> i think that would be in the file or folder associations, right click then select the program you want to use to open that folder/file
[09:24] <Cantide> Kilos, i bet Unity will be much lighter and faster in the future
[09:24] <Cantide> because of the move away from Unity 3D
[09:24] <Cantide> and the implementation of qt/qml + mir
[09:24] <Cantide> but that's at least a year away i think :<
[09:25] <magespawn> will be interesting to see
[09:25] <Kilos> i hope so. because i can run 12.10 here now but dont fancy all the fading/shading of things, makes everything take so much longer to happen
[09:25] <Cantide> yeah
[09:25] <Cantide> i'm all for lightweight above appearance
[09:25] <Cantide> but looking good is sadly what draws people in
[09:25] <Kilos> yeah snappy performance
[09:26] <magespawn> here is another phone for the debate from last night http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_808_pureview-4577.php
[09:26] <Kilos> eye candy is for peeps with good eyes and lotsa time
[09:26] <magespawn> indeed Kilos
[09:27] <Kilos> i prefer candy inna mouth
[09:29] <Kilos> lubuntu was very nippy but i couldnt find my home folder with gui so thats why i installed mate
[09:29] <magespawn> i used lubuntu once for a little
[09:34] <Kilos> if it wasnt for nm i would used 12.04 kde and unity. i like both
[09:34] <Kilos> might still install ubuntu-desktop here when new data goes in
[09:35] <Kilos> been a bad 2 weeks data wise
[09:35] <Kilos> and all because if the quantal packages in precise that my graphics card couldnt use
[09:36] <Kilos> grrr
[09:36] <Kilos> s/if/of
[09:36] <nlsthzn> wwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:37] <Kilos> sjoe wassup nlsthzn 
[09:37] <Kilos> you had triplets?
[09:37] <nlsthzn> ah not much uncle Kilos ... just saw I have irc open and well... yes....
[09:38] <Kilos> haha
[09:38] <Kilos> you battling with irc? whew
[09:41] <nlsthzn> no... not really... just being random
[09:42] <Kilos> ah magespawn mate doesnt have bell.ogg in /usr/share/sounds/
[09:43] <Kilos> it uses bell.oga
[09:43] <Kilos> thats why no bloep
[10:03] <Kilos> guys i did sudo chown miles:miles /usr/share/sounds/mate/default/alerts
[10:03] <Kilos>  to get bell.ogg to there now to give it back to root do i just substitute root:root in place of miles:miles?
[10:03] <magespawn> now that i am not sure
[10:05] <Kilos> maybe one has to sudo -i first then chown from there to root, but im scared to play too much with chown
[10:06] <Kilos> caused bad maracas once before
[10:06] <Kilos> /usr/share/sounds/ belongs to root to start with methinks
[10:25] <Kilos> wbb
[10:43] <Kilos> hey magespawn you arent running kde anywhere are you
[11:33] <magespawn> i was, not anymore
[11:38] <magespawn> Kilos: 
[11:38] <Kilos> ah
[11:38] <Kilos> you shoulda tried konversation
[11:38] <Kilos> methinks if anything is better than xchat , its konversation
[11:39] <magespawn> kinda hooked on quassel
[11:39] <Kilos> haha thats because you dont worry about bloep
[11:40] <magespawn> and thats why you get a reply an hour later sometimes
[11:40] <Kilos> and you use quassel from the hand toy too
[11:40] <Kilos> hahaha
[11:41] <magespawn> ahh that is true, on the tablet i get noises, but i am using one of the cafe machines at the moment
[11:45] <magespawn> off home, chat later
[13:01] <nuvolari> o/
[13:01] <nuvolari> hi oom Kilos, magespawn 
[13:01] <nuvolari> and charl_ and kodez 
[13:01] <charl_> hi nuvolari
[13:01] <charl_> how goes it
[13:02] <nuvolari> It goes well thanks! You?
[13:02] <charl_> it's going very well
[13:02] <charl_> just relaxing, had a busy week
[13:04] <nuvolari> yeah, this week was weird, it had a long run up, and then all of a sudden friday passed
[13:05] <kodez> gretings to you too nuvolari
[13:06] <kodez> greetings everyone
[13:06] <charl_> hi kodez
[13:19] <charl_> i bought a massive bag of so-called "espresso beans" for 4 euro and am drinking it now
[13:19] <charl_> it's surprisingly good just using it as filter coffee
[13:26] <Kilos> hi nuvolari
[13:26] <charl_> hi Kilos
[13:27] <Kilos> hi charl_
[13:27] <charl_> how goes it
[13:27] <Kilos> and kodeztoo hiya
[13:29] <charl_> have any of you people ever tried to use rdesktop to windows server 2012?
[13:30] <charl_> i discovered an interesting problem... by default there is a security option that's set and then you get a "connection reset by peer" error with rdesktop
[13:30] <charl_> when you disable the security option it works perfectly without a flaw
[13:32] <charl_> the weird thing is, the option is called "allow connections only from computers running remote desktop with network level auhtentication"
[13:32] <charl_> network level authentication? and that causes a connection reset by peer? "interesting" stuff microsoft is up to
[13:34] <charl_> it (obviously) works perfectly with the official remote desktop client in windows 7 though, even though the server is on a completely different network on the other side of the country
[13:34] <charl_> :)
[13:43] <nuvolari> ti oow ki=o-
[13:43] <nuvolari> uhm...
[13:43] <nuvolari> lol
[13:43] <charl_> he?
[13:43] <nuvolari> hi oom Kilos 
[13:43] <charl_> lol
[13:43] <nuvolari> right-hand-offset was wrong :P
[13:43] <nuvolari> 1 position to the right
[13:43] <charl_> your fingers were not correctly calibrated with the keyboard :)
[13:44] <nuvolari> yeah
[13:44] <Kilos> lol
[13:44] <charl_> just call it a calibration error :P
[13:44] <nuvolari> lol
[13:44] <nuvolari> I need a keyboard with more prominent home postion indicators
[13:44] <Kilos> what was it supposed to be
[13:45] <nuvolari> it was supposed to be 'hi oom kilos'
[13:45] <Kilos> hahaha
[13:48] <charl_> interesting, there are three linux distros that are officially supported on microsoft's azure platform
[13:48] <charl_> http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/manage/linux/other-resources/endorsed-distributions/
[13:48] <charl_> ubuntu, suse and centos
[13:49] <inetpro> nuvolari: that should have been "jo pp, lo;pd"
[13:49] <charl_> ironic to think this is after all the FUD they spread about linux 10 years ago
[13:49] <inetpro> good afternoon
[13:49] <charl_> hi inetpro
[13:50] <inetpro> that ^^ is one key position to the right
[13:51] <inetpro> magespawn: that is no "smart" phone
[13:52] <inetpro> in fact very yuck if you ask me
[13:52] <inetpro> Nokia 808 PureView pictures http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_808_pureview-pictures-4577.php
[13:54] <Kilos> lo inetpro
[13:54] <inetpro> aiho Kilos
[13:57] <inetpro> Kilos: why did you even try to play with the permissions of /usr/share/sounds/mate/default/alerts ?
[13:57] <Kilos> to put bloep there
[13:58] <Kilos> bell.ogg noy bell.oga
[13:58] <Kilos> s/noy/not
[13:58] <inetpro> and did it work?
[13:58] <Kilos> i wish peeps would standardise
[13:59] <Kilos> i dunno. im on kde now
[13:59] <inetpro> I mean the bloep sound, did it work after you did that?
[13:59] <Kilos> it didnt change from what it was even though i added bell.ogg
[13:59] <inetpro> ai!
[13:59] <inetpro> obviously!
[13:59] <Kilos> but all sound files in there except bell.ogg are now locked
[14:00] <inetpro> locked?
[14:00] <Kilos> thats why i wanted to know must i chown it to root
[14:00] <Kilos> ja man show locks there
[14:00] <inetpro> you should have just left it as root
[14:00] <Kilos> but at least bell.ogg is there
[14:01] <inetpro> what's the point?
[14:01] <Kilos> it wouldnt let me copy bell.ogg there man
[14:01] <Kilos> ai!
[14:01] <inetpro> it's in the mate folder
[14:01] <Kilos> ek sukkel met jou partykeer
[14:01] <inetpro> how do you expect xchat to magically know that it's there?
[14:02] <Kilos> i tried to use the other sound option but didnt work
[14:02] <Kilos> and i gave it the whole path
[14:02] <inetpro> ahh
[14:02] <inetpro> but then why copy it into that folder?
[14:02] <inetpro> it could be anywhere
[14:03] <Kilos> lol i tried telling it that too
[14:03] <inetpro> like /home/miles/mybloepsound/bloep.ogg
[14:03] <Kilos> tried while file was on desktop
[14:04] <Kilos> but now im resting on kde again
[14:04] <inetpro> ai!
[14:04] <Kilos> anyway you kde peep for some reason my kde isnt installing with single click anymore
[14:04] <Kilos> what did i do wrong
[14:05] <Kilos> i spent many hours looking in settings but i cant find where
[14:05] <Kilos> i might even trry konversation on mate and see later or morrow
[14:07] <charl_> why would it make a difference which desktop you are running?
[14:07] <Kilos> well quassel had no sound on unity remember so who knows
[14:07] <charl_> ah i see
[14:08] <charl_> yeah kde does a lot of "fancy" things but if it doesn't work on unity it probably won't work on any other gnome-based desktop
[14:08] <Kilos> what you clever peeps can work out for me is
[14:08] <inetpro> kde isnt installing with single click anymore?
[14:09] <inetpro> what does that mean?
[14:09] <Kilos> when you have a flashdisk in , you used to be able to right click format it and then name it lekker which the diskutility dont do
[14:09] <Kilos> what inetpro?
[14:10] <Kilos> ai! ek sukkel
[14:10] <inetpro> I have never installed kde with a single click
[14:10] <Kilos> no man dodo
[14:10] <Kilos> listen
[14:10] <Kilos> if you have archives somewhere
[14:11] <Kilos> you open it and it used to install with one click on the package
[14:11] <Kilos> or actually open the installer with one click
[14:11] <charl_> oh the graphical package management tool
[14:11] <Kilos> yay at last
[14:12] <inetpro> hmm...
[14:12] <charl_> and one click is kde's default open with the mouse/touchpad
[14:12] <charl_> just need to decipher the code :)
[14:12] <Kilos> ya and i like it that way
[14:12] <Kilos> dunno how it disappeared
[14:12] <inetpro> Kilos: you like living on the edge
[14:12] <charl_> mouse/touchpad options?
[14:12] <Kilos> yeah
[14:12] <Kilos> oh ty
[14:14] <Kilos> it shows that
[14:14] <Kilos> hmm...
[14:14] <inetpro> Kilos: what file manager?
[14:14] <Kilos> oh ya
[14:14] <Kilos> i think i installed thunar thats why
[14:14] <inetpro> ai!
[14:14] <Kilos> forget why now
[14:14] <Kilos> blame the young chick
[14:15] <inetpro> what's wrong with dolphin?
[14:15] <Kilos> something didnt work so she said install thunar
[14:15] <Kilos> i forget what it was that didnt work now
[14:15] <inetpro> dolphin is the default kde file manager 
[14:16] <inetpro> it's nicely integrated with kde
[14:16] <Kilos> yes but something didnt work with it
[14:16] <inetpro> what is something?
[14:16] <inetpro> how long is a peace of string?
[14:16] <Kilos> ai!
[14:16] <nlsthzn> cat had a wiz all over one of my laptop bags while a netbook was still in it :/ so now I am going to open it up and see if the damage is just superficical or deeper :/
[14:16] <Kilos> scroll back a week or so
[14:17] <Kilos> ai!
[14:17] <Kilos> i hate cats
[14:17] <nlsthzn> +1
[14:17] <Kilos> very allergic to them and their flees
[14:17] <Kilos> only animal that kills for pleasure
[14:18] <inetpro> Kilos: you would have to go back to dolphin and tell us the problem from there
[14:18] <Kilos> ok lemme remove thunar
[14:18] <inetpro> Kilos: why?
[14:18] <Kilos> oh inetpro
[14:18] <inetpro> no need to remove anything
[14:18] <inetpro> did you remove dolphin?
[14:19] <Kilos> nope
[14:19] <inetpro> press Alt+F2 and type dolphin
[14:19] <inetpro> and press enter
[14:19] <Kilos> before i forget again how can i open a konsole with keyboard
[14:19] <inetpro> Alt+F2 konsole
[14:20] <Kilos> ty it opened the thing here
[14:21] <charl_> i normally use alt+f1 instead of alt+f2 because then you can use the up and down buttons to select the application in kde
[14:21] <Kilos> but tell me the shortcut keys to open konsole
[14:21] <charl_> i wonder why it doesn't work anymore, i thought it used to work with the alt+f2 launcher too
[14:21] <charl_> but why do we even need two launchers in the first placew
[14:21] <charl_> *place
[14:21] <inetpro> charl_: up and down also works on Alt+F2
[14:21] <charl_> weird, i tried it on kubuntu 12.10 and it didn't want to work for me
[14:21] <Kilos> because dolphin didnt work with something cha
[14:21] <charl_> i also used to think it worked fine though
[14:22] <Kilos> oh
[14:22] <Kilos> didnt show hidden files i think
[14:22] <Kilos> then the fly told me how
[14:22] <inetpro> ai!
[14:22] <Kilos> ctrl+.
[14:22] <inetpro> Kilos: just look through the menu options
[14:23] <Kilos> for what?
[14:23] <Kilos> i dont wanna go menu everytime i want to open a konsole
[14:24] <inetpro> Kilos: for most things you would normally find stuff in there
[14:24] <Kilos> lol
[14:24] <inetpro> it tells you the shortcuts
[14:24] <Kilos> you so cheeky
[14:24] <Kilos> oh
[14:24] <Kilos> where you see that
[14:25] <inetpro> click on the little spanner on the right
[14:25] <Kilos> show konsole in favourites but shortcuts
[14:25] <inetpro> and if you don't find your shortcut you can see many more in configure shortcuts
[14:25] <Kilos> where you see a spanner
[14:25] <charl_> ah here is what i need to do: http://www.hanckmann.net/?q=kde4_and_the_windows_key
[14:25] <inetpro> Kilos: in dolphin
[14:26] <charl_> i love using the so-called "meta" key instead of alt+f1
[14:26] <Kilos> oh not menu?
[14:27] <inetpro> Kilos: they chose to put the menu inside a icon
[14:27] <inetpro> to free up more screen space
[14:28] <inetpro> that happened in the days when the netbooks came out
[14:28] <inetpro> with small screens
[14:30] <Kilos> you mean i gotta remap the konsole to a key?
[14:30] <Kilos> sjoe
[14:30] <inetpro> hmm... you talking to me?
[14:31] <inetpro> I'm still talking about dolphin and it's shortcuts
[14:31] <Kilos> ai!
[14:32] <charl_> i am surprised to see suse still existing as a company, but it seems like they are doing nothing outside of jumping on the "cloud" hype
[14:33] <inetpro> Kilos: if you're inside dolphin you can press shift+f4 to launch konsole, but that is not a system wide shortcut
[14:33] <Kilos> aha
[14:34] <inetpro> Kilos: what key did you use in unity to open the terminal?
[14:34] <Kilos> ctrl+alt+t
[14:35] <inetpro> hmm... Ctrl+Alt+T is already mapped to something else
[14:36] <Kilos> what? something one uses?
[14:40] <inetpro> in system settings you can create a new global shortcut
[14:40] <inetpro> just have to find a key that is not used yet
[14:40] <inetpro> a key combination
[14:41] <nlsthzn> charl_, dunno about that about suse... all signals I am getting from peeps in openSUSE points to only good things...
[14:42] <Kilos> where you see global shortcuts?
[14:42] <inetpro> Kilos: System Settings | Shortcuts and Gestures | Custom Shortcuts | Edit | New | Global Shortcut | Command / URL
[14:43] <inetpro> The shortcut 'Ctrl+Alt+T' conflicts with the following key combination:
[14:43] <inetpro> Shortcut 'Ctrl+Alt+T' in Application synaptiks for action Touchpad on
[14:44] <inetpro> set the key in the Trigger tab and set the command to konsole in the Action tab
[14:45] <inetpro> and since you do not have a Touchpad you should not have the same problem as me
[14:47]  * inetpro bbl
[14:47] <Kilos> sjoe
[15:04] <Kilos> yo Vince-0
[15:05] <Vince-0> Hi Kilos 
[15:05] <charl_> hi Vince-0
[15:06] <Vince-0> manual updating Razr maxx to Android Jellybean
[15:09] <Symmetria> heh, Im busy configuring painful traffic classification crap, what a mission
[15:10] <charl_> traffic classification? for shaping or monitoring?
[15:10] <Symmetria> monitoring
[15:10] <Kilos> nlsthzn: you watching the stormers?
[15:10] <charl_> ah, trying to stop people from pirating? :)
[15:10] <nlsthzn> no uncle Kilos ... forgot they are playing :p
[15:11] <Symmetria> nah, just to be able to se where stuff is coming from properly
[15:11] <Kilos> just started nlsthzn
[15:11] <charl_> brb, off to the shops...
[15:11] <nlsthzn> thanks uncle Kilos ... pity bulls playing tomorrow morning 7 local time, just when I arrive at work :/
[15:11] <Kilos> aw
[15:11] <Kilos> do ahabs follow rugby?
[15:11] <Kilos> hehe
[15:12] <Kilos> or they do camel polo
[15:14] <nlsthzn> football crazy
[15:15] <nlsthzn> see the stormers starting well... or at least hearing it as the site I am using to watch is more like a slide show
[15:17] <Symmetria> ARGH I hate regex
[15:22] <Symmetria> set as-path INTERNATIONAL-ACADEMIC "^2018 36944 20965 .*" ; set as-path INTERNATIONAL-UBUNTUNET "^2018 36944$" ; set as-path NATIONAL-IS "^2018 3741 .*" ; set as-path NATIONAL-SAIX "^2018 5713 .*" ; set as-path TENET-ONLY "^2018$"
[15:22] <Symmetria> ooops
[15:22] <Symmetria> stupid cut and paste
[15:22] <nlsthzn> lol
[15:49] <magespawn> evening all
[15:55] <Kilos> himage
[15:55] <Kilos> ai!
[15:55] <Kilos> magespawn: too
[15:55] <Kilos> good game hey nlsthzn
[15:56] <nlsthzn> seems so, I am reading it online so not that epic for me uncle Kilos :p
[15:56] <Kilos> aw shame. 28 mins to first scrum
[15:57] <nlsthzn> wow
[15:57] <nlsthzn> guess the stormers still scarred cause the bulls out scrummed them in their last clash :p
[15:58] <Kilos> lol
[16:00] <Symmetria> heh neat, I now have communities in place so I can identify traffic from a whole number of sources via netflow
[16:02] <magespawn> can you show us?
[16:02] <magespawn> hey Kilos
[16:02] <Symmetria> heh magespawn can show you what I did sure
[16:03] <magespawn> can you show us the traffic?
[16:04] <Symmetria> heh once Ive applied the rules to the arbor that might be possible :) 
[16:04] <Symmetria> http://www.inetpro.org/pastebin/ad7bc84a6980467a98fa1d58759ecb19
[16:04] <Symmetria> heh, thats the actual classification config 
[16:05] <Symmetria> what amazes me is that I apply that against half a million routes and it applies and tags in under a second
[16:07] <Symmetria> and even analyzing the traffic ad sending the netflow records at hundreds of megs a second is still only running at 8% cpu
[16:08] <magespawn> you don't actually get all the traffic, you just sniff it?
[16:10] <Kilos> inetpro: ty very much that shortcut for console works kiff
[16:11] <Kilos> that will save me a second every time i need one
[16:12] <Symmetria> magespawn don't even sniff it, the router sends netflow recods
[16:12] <Symmetria> to the netflow collector
[16:13] <Symmetria> so basically, as the traffic passes through the router, it tells the netflow collector "I just had a packet coming in from this interface, destined to this interface, with a source address of X and a destination address of Y and here are all the other relevant details about that flow"
[16:13] <magespawn> ahh right i understand
[16:13] <Symmetria> then the collector correlates it all against the bgp and gives you stats 
[16:13] <magespawn> can you see what is in the traffic exactly?
[16:14] <Symmetria> no, we're only looking at routing, ip, tcp/udp/icmp headers, payload is never looked at
[16:14] <Symmetria> but obviously if we were to see something funny in the netflow, the facility to look at the payload via other means is there
[16:14] <Symmetria> (well, on future packets)
[16:15] <Symmetria> because on a juniper router you can effectively tcpdump if you choose to
[16:19] <magespawn> so anyone who can access the router could do that?
[16:19] <charl_> i absolutely hate answering machines
[16:19] <charl_> either pick up the phone or give me an email address
[16:20] <magespawn> ringing phones are a personal bugbear
[16:21] <charl_> yeah i hate bears that bug me
[16:21] <charl_> i also hate ringing phones that bug me
[16:22] <Symmetria> magespawn anyone who has access to the router with the relevant permissions could dump the traffic yes
[16:22] <Symmetria> which is why we're so careful with who has access and what permissions they have on the routers
[16:23] <charl_> the thing that bugs me the most though is when bugs bug me... but i am a programmer so that is a problem i have to deal with
[16:23] <Symmetria> heh, the routers log every command issued to them against whoever typed it, and we can restrict right down to command level who has access to execute what commands
[16:23] <magespawn> can you clear the logs?
[16:24] <nuvolari> \o/
[16:24]  * nuvolari declares a silent victory
[16:24] <Symmetria> magespawn no one can clear those logs unless they have access to the db server, and the backup db server, and if they did, it would be visible, I modified the tacacs code to sequence every command executed
[16:24] <Symmetria> so delete a log line outta the db and you're gonna know someone fucked with the logs 
[16:25] <nuvolari> or messed around
[16:25] <magespawn> right so if someone makes a mess of things either on purpose or by mistake you can track it
[16:26] <Symmetria> yeah
[16:26] <charl_> sounds like audit logging on a database
[16:26] <charl_> i like it
[16:26] <charl_> log all the mutations
[16:26] <Symmetria> the idea is that NO ONE issues a command to a router or switch that we can't see and react to 
[16:26] <Symmetria> charl_ basically yes
[16:26] <Symmetria> it allows us to see if anyone violates change control etc
[16:27] <charl_> the biggest question is though... are the logs properly monitored
[16:27] <charl_> cause it's one thing to have logs and it's another thing to actually do stuff with them
[16:27] <magespawn> how would you monitor them?
[16:27] <Symmetria> and if it loses communication to the authentication server, it won't let ANYONE execute commands unless you have the password to the local account, and no one has that, its long, randomly generated and escrowed
[16:28] <inetpro> Kilos: it's a pleasure
[16:28] <Symmetria> charl, heh, they are monitored, it emails them to a select group of people every 6 hours (any commands issued in the last 6 hours)
[16:28] <charl_> ah ok that's pretty good :)
[16:28] <Kilos> so lekker when things are standardised. then you dont have to think so much when on another os
[16:28] <charl_> inetpro: is that your site? inetpro.org?
[16:29] <magespawn> bbl later dinner time 
[16:29] <inetpro> charl_: yes
[16:29] <charl_> inetpro: very nice
[16:29] <inetpro> oh then again, no
[16:29] <inetpro> charl_: no
[16:29] <inetpro> :-)
[16:29] <charl_> ?? :)
[16:29] <inetpro> they stole my name
[16:29] <charl_> oh lol
[16:29] <Symmetria> heh, charl, I saw the most freakish hack the other day that was positively scary
[16:29] <Symmetria> I watched a guy man in the middle all the https on a network and strip out the https
[16:30] <Symmetria> and capture a ton of usernames and passwords etc in a test
[16:30] <inetpro> charl_: I had nothing to do with it
[16:31] <Symmetria> heh, the guy arp spoofed a gateway, so traffic came to his machine instead of via the router, then forwarded all the traffic through his machine, if he saw web traffic on port 80, he watched for https redirects, then stripped them out and forced https requests to become http requests 
[16:31] <Symmetria> and since most sites listen on both and hten just redirect to https to force https 
[16:31] <Symmetria> it meant that if you access *directly* via the http, the https disappears and you get it in clear text
[16:31] <Symmetria> scarily enough, it worked against all the south african banks
[16:31] <Symmetria> works against yahoo as well 
[16:32] <charl_> although i've heard of these attacks many times before, i've never actually witnessed it myself
[16:32] <charl_> that is extremely dangerous because most users don't watch out for it in their browsers
[16:33] <charl_> it would essentially work against all sites and the only way to defend against it is to double check that you are in fact using https
[16:33] <charl_> i try to remember to always do it myself but i'm sure i forget sometimes
[16:34] <Symmetria> heh, we're turning off port 80 on a lot of sensitive machines now
[16:34] <charl_> maybe i do it subconciously though, check for the green thing in the address bar
[16:34] <Kilos> what is the diffs guys
[16:34] <Symmetria> put a redirect machine that redirects to https on the https server but the actual content is simply not available via port 80
[16:34] <Kilos> whats the https?
[16:34] <charl_> Kilos: http is plain text and https is http over ssl
[16:34] <charl_> Kilos: in other words, it's encrypted end-to-end
[16:34] <Kilos> more secure?
[16:35] <Kilos> ty
[16:35] <charl_> yes very much more secure :)
[16:35] <Symmetria> kilos can't be sniffed for passwords etc
[16:35] <charl_> if it's used properly
[16:35] <Kilos> ah
[16:35] <charl_> that's what it mostly comes down to indeed
[16:35] <Symmetria> charl lol, the more scary hack is a bgp hack I saw where its possible to redirect traffic for any subnet on the internet via your own router 
[16:35] <charl_> although it keeps anything secure you want to be secure
[16:35] <Symmetria> and do it invisibly
[16:35] <nuvolari> anyone with google app engine experience around?
[16:36] <charl_> yes i've heard of that also, where a lot of traffic was being redirected through china for a short while
[16:36] <charl_> there were a lot of questions surrounding it
[16:36] <charl_> was it done by accident or was it on purpose?
[16:36] <Symmetria> heh, by inserting hijack bgp routes and then inserting as paths to stop those routes ending up where you don't want them (to keep traffic flowing), and then screwing with packet ttl's to stop traceroutes showing things
[16:36] <charl_> wow, even going as far as manipulating the ttls, that's impressive
[16:36] <charl_> that's crazy scary actually, i never thought of that
[16:37] <charl_> inserting bgp routes... that's one thing
[16:37] <charl_> but manipulating the traceroutes... that's plain evil
[16:37] <Symmetria> lol hop hiding in traceroutes is pretty common practice in mpls networks
[16:38] <Symmetria> but doing it as a hack, yes thats evil
[16:38] <charl_> ah, never thought of that, but i have seen some traceroutes that don't look correct
[16:38] <Symmetria> charl heh, ciscos and junipers and most other mpls capable routers
[16:38] <Symmetria> have a command that says "do not decrement the ttl on packets being mpls switched through this router"
[16:38] <charl_> interesting, very interesting
[16:39] <Symmetria> an the moment you don't decrement the ttl, the router disappears outta the traceroute
[16:39] <charl_> oh yes, i remember it now
[16:39] <charl_> of course
[16:39] <Symmetria> when I was at TENET most of their routers ran in that config
[16:39] <charl_> i thought there was a way to do it on linux routers too
[16:39] <Symmetria> doesnt look like they are doing it anymore
[16:39] <charl_> that can confuse stuff though, if you don't know and can't determine how traffic is flowing
[16:39] <Symmetria> charl there probably is, you can manually manipulate ttl with firewall rules 
[16:39] <charl_> makes it hard to debug problems right?
[16:40] <Symmetria> charl you can define certain subnets that it will do the decrement for
[16:40] <Symmetria> so, if you're on the router itself or on the network, you see the traceroutes
[16:40] <charl_> i guess it has some security benefits
[16:40] <Symmetria> but if you're external you don't 
[16:40] <charl_> if you don't know the ip addresses of routers it makes it harder to target them
[16:41] <charl_> security by obscurity
[16:41] <Symmetria> its not just about targetting them, it stops people mapping all your network paths
[16:41] <charl_> but why would that be a bad thing?
[16:42] <Symmetria> heh, because if someone has a complete map of your network paths, planning evil ddos attacks is a lot easier
[16:42] <charl_> ah i see now
[16:42] <charl_> there is also another problem this creates... it means traffic can travel in circles if the routers have bad routing tables ?
[16:43] <charl_> if the ttls don't get decremented the packets don't time out
[16:43] <Symmetria> well, most routers have serious protections against that
[16:43] <Symmetria> route loops like that in mpls can be identified through the mpls labels
[16:44] <charl_> ah, i guess if it's inside a certain network segment there are enough ways to counter that
[16:44] <Symmetria> we actually forced that to happen on certain links in the past to attempt to test traffic capacity on circuits
[16:45] <charl_> hahaha, good idea
[16:45] <Symmetria> easiest way to test traffic capacity on an interface or a circuit, force a layer 3 loop
[16:45] <Symmetria> ;p
[16:45] <charl_> brilliant
[16:45] <charl_> no need to generate tons of bogus traffic
[16:46] <charl_> just keep circling the same bogus traffic over and over ;)
[16:46] <Symmetria> lol, generate 10meg, force the loop *with* ttl decrement, set the ttl to 255, and you're suddenly generating 2.5 gig of traffic
[16:46] <charl_> hahahaha!
[16:46] <charl_> crude but effective :)
[16:46] <Symmetria> charl, its not that much different to how the original ddos attacks in the 90s worked
[16:46] <Symmetria> before they got rid of ip directed broadcast
[16:47] <Symmetria> way back when, you could ping a network broadcast address over the internet
[16:47] <Symmetria> and it would broadcast the packet to everything behind the subnet
[16:47] <charl_> oh yes i remember that
[16:47] <Symmetria> so the easiest way to ddos someone, was to spoof ping packets from that person to all the broadcast addresses
[16:47] <charl_> almost forgot about it
[16:47] <Symmetria> and it resulted in massive amplification and goodbye target
[16:48] <Symmetria> scary thing is, there are STILL people that have amplifiers open like that
[16:48] <Symmetria> heh charl: ping 212.217.118.0
[16:48] <Symmetria> you'll see what I mean
[16:49] <charl_> hmmm
[16:50] <charl_> ancient networks
[16:50] <charl_> weird
[16:51] <Symmetria> heh I once wrote a tool
[16:51] <Symmetria> that scanned for those things
[16:51] <Symmetria> using the bgp tables as a scan database
[16:52] <charl_> ah yeah why not
[16:52] <charl_> convenient
[16:52] <charl_> then you can limit the scan based on your own criteria
[16:55] <Symmetria> brb, supper
[16:55] <charl_> same here, bbl
[17:00] <magespawn> some interesting chat there
[17:06] <charl_> k back
[17:06] <charl_> magespawn: very much so!
[17:06] <charl_> i am busy playing with ubuntu on an azure cloud in amsterdam
[17:06] <magespawn> i tried pinging that address, got nothing back
[17:06] <charl_> me neither, i also got no response
[17:07] <magespawn> who does azure?
[17:07] <charl_> it actually uses http://azure.archive.ubuntu.com as the mirror
[17:07] <charl_> no idea right :)
[17:09] <charl_> oh you mean microsoft? or that nobody actually uses it? :)
[17:09] <charl_> look at this crazy traceroute http://paste.ubuntu.com/5599458/
[17:11] <magespawn> i thougt is was microsoft
[17:11] <magespawn> charl_:  why is that crazy?
[17:13] <charl_> there are a bunch of 10.x addresses that show up in the traceroute
[17:14] <charl_> i guess it's possible but i haven't seen that in a long time
[17:14] <magespawn> shall we do a compare from here?
[17:14] <charl_> yeah sure why not
[17:14] <charl_> all on microsoft's end
[17:14] <magespawn> brb
[17:15] <charl_> sounds to me like an anycast story
[17:15] <charl_> or multi-homed
[17:18] <Symmetria> heh
[17:18] <Symmetria> not necessarily at all
[17:19] <Symmetria> entirely possibl that people are using rfc1918 space on their routers 
[17:19] <Symmetria> to prevent attacks on them etc
[17:19] <Symmetria> I don't like it, but I know a number of people who do it
[17:19] <charl_> ah ok
[17:21] <magespawn> http://slexy.org/view/s21ixwrZ1M
[17:22] <magespawn> that is traceroute to the name
[17:22] <charl_> from my cable connection: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5599501/
[17:23] <charl_> interesting, you seem to end up in london
[17:23] <Symmetria> wow thats some horrible latency magespawn
[17:23] <charl_> ooh! yes
[17:23] <magespawn> and the second is to the ip address http://slexy.org/view/s253unYSe4
[17:24] <Symmetria> *HRM* you're behind as9143?
[17:24] <Symmetria> interesting
[17:24] <magespawn> wireless to the tablet and vodacom 3g from there
[17:24] <Symmetria> heh, ubuntunet should peer ziggo
[17:25] <Symmetria> I see traffic even to/from ufs to ziggo 
[17:25] <charl_> ziggo is a major cable provider in NL
[17:25] <charl_> nothing too unusual about it i think
[17:26] <magespawn> it seems as though 212.217.118.0 is in morocco
[17:26] <Symmetria> charl heh, whats unusual is that ziggo is on amsix
[17:26] <charl_> but yes, as9143.net is ziggo's network
[17:26] <Symmetria> and we're not seeing them via amsix
[17:27] <Symmetria> but via init7
[17:27] <charl_> ah, i see
[17:27] <Symmetria> which means either they are closing their peering policy or no one bothered to ask them for peering
[17:27] <Symmetria> ;p
[17:27] <charl_> weird
[17:28] <Symmetria> aahh
[17:28] <Symmetria> their peering policy is stated as selective
[17:28] <charl_> that sucks
[17:28] <Kilos> please explain what is peering
[17:28] <charl_> i am a supporter of open peering
[17:28] <Symmetria> heavy eyeball 
[17:28] <charl_> Kilos: different isp's talking to each other basically
[17:28] <charl_> the networks i mean
[17:28] <Symmetria> heh kilos peering = direct connections between isps either on a settlement free or a settlement basis
[17:29] <Symmetria> umm wait I got a presentation I did on peering a while back 
[17:29] <Kilos> ah ty i asked maaz  but he gave other stuff
[17:29] <Symmetria> http://www.alstonnetworks.net/presentations/peering-dar-es-salaam-2012.ppt
[17:29] <Kilos> mail it please Symmetria
[17:29] <Symmetria> there ya go :)
[17:29] <Kilos> ai
[17:29] <charl_> ppt? :(
[17:30] <Kilos> ty
[17:30] <Symmetria> charl, heh, you distribute via the format that the majority of your audience can easily access
[17:30] <charl_> :)
[17:30] <charl_> no problem, i got libreoffice to take care of it :)
[17:31] <Symmetria> ;p and as for slide creation, powerpoint still does a damn good job
[17:31] <Kilos> ah ty Symmetria thats a good way of getting info
[17:31] <charl_> it's true, powerpoint isn't bad
[17:32] <charl_> i used to hate openoffice for presentations
[17:32] <charl_> i used to use kpresent
[17:32] <charl_> but i haven't given a talk in yers
[17:32] <charl_> *years
[17:32] <Symmetria> heh charl, there are still a few areas where the fact is, windows/osx software has anything opensource beaten dead to rights
[17:32] <charl_> kpresenter, excuse me, been so long i can't even remember the name anymore
[17:32] <Symmetria> I mean, there is *NO* realistic competition for video editing in the linux world
[17:33] <charl_> can't say i have any experience with that myself
[17:33] <Symmetria> premier pro/after effects are years and years ahead of anything opensource
[17:33] <charl_> video editing i mean
[17:33] <Symmetria> and I hate to say it, photoshop cs6 is years ahead of anything linux has as well :)
[17:34] <charl_> i always use the gimp but the type of image/photo editing i do is extremely basic
[17:34] <Symmetria> yeah gimp is good for basic editing
[17:34] <charl_> the gimp gives me everything i need, i just find it really user unfriendly
[17:34] <Symmetria> but if you're gonna get heavily advanced 
[17:34] <Symmetria> photoshop will kick its ass
[17:34] <charl_> i always end up having to google to find out how to do simple things
[17:34] <charl_> but once you get used to it, you can do all the basics fairly quickly and smoothly
[17:34] <Symmetria> heh, I do a lot of video editing, and if you think gimp is hard to use, wait till you try and learn how to use ANY non-linear video editor
[17:35] <Symmetria> those things are *complicated*
[17:35] <Symmetria> but you can do some pretty amazing things 
[17:35] <charl_> i guess it's something that i won't be doing anytime soon :)
[17:35] <charl_> it's funny because i do a lot of stuff on computers that most people would consider to be fairly advanced
[17:35] <charl_> and yet, i can't even properly use microsoft word
[17:35] <Symmetria> http://www.alstonnetworks.net/motion-test-3.mp4
[17:35] <Symmetria> lol
[17:35] <charl_> end up having to ask my colleagues for help
[17:36] <Symmetria> that was edited with after effects
[17:36] <Symmetria> stabilized and edited
[17:37] <Kilos> ty Symmetria  now i savvy peering a bit better too
[17:37] <Symmetria> lol its actually amazing how well that stabilizer worked considering that was shot on a dash mounted handcam
[17:37] <charl_> Symmetria i swear you drive so fast i thought you were in germany :)
[17:37] <charl_> just kidding
[17:37] <Symmetria> charl hahaha NO ONE drives as fast as in motion-test-3
[17:38] <charl_> :D
[17:38] <Symmetria> thats been edited ;p its an effective speed in that video of 900kph 
[17:38] <charl_> your car would just take off from the road and start flying through the air !
[17:38] <Symmetria> http://www.alstonnetworks.net/motion-test-2.mp4 <[17:38] <Symmetria> heh, still reasonably fast, but no where like the -3 ;p
[17:39] <charl_> ah much better
[17:39] <charl_> that looks more normal
[17:39] <Symmetria> haha, charl yeah, but it doesnt LOOK like 170kph 
[17:39] <Symmetria> and its more fun if it actually looks like you're moving
[17:39] <Symmetria> ;p
[17:39] <charl_> that's true, 170 is still fairly fast
[17:40] <Symmetria> lol, I should do a real one at top speed
[17:40] <magespawn> Symmetria: have tried a gopro?
[17:40] <Symmetria> to see what it looks like
[17:40] <charl_> i saw a video recently of someone in germany driving at 180 but it looked fairly peaceful
[17:40] <charl_> (that's legal in germany btw)
[17:40] <charl_> i don't think that's legal in NL :)
[17:40] <Symmetria> magespawn nah, that was a panasonic h700 
[17:40] <charl_> or most of the rest of the world for that matter
[17:41] <Symmetria> haha charl if I did a video at top speed and got busted making it
[17:41] <Symmetria> I'd be spending a long time in jail ;p
[17:41] <charl_> don't do it!
[17:41] <charl_> :)
[17:41] <Symmetria> haha, I've taken my car to its top speed only once
[17:41] <Symmetria> and only for about 30 seconds before I got freaked out and slowed the hell down
[17:41] <magespawn> gopro are awesome little cameras
[17:41] <Symmetria> top gps speed I ever hit = 304kph 
[17:41] <magespawn> you could mount them on the outside of the car
[17:42] <charl_> wow f*** !
[17:42] <charl_> i can't imagine driving like that
[17:42] <charl_> i think the fastest i have ever done was like 180
[17:42] <Symmetria> ahah charl I have the car for it
[17:42] <charl_> that's true, a good car makes a difference
[17:42] <Symmetria> I've done bloemfontein in 4 hours and 3 minutes from east london
[17:42] <Symmetria> thats an *AVERAGE* of 143 or something
[17:42] <charl_> oh that's not so bad
[17:42] <Symmetria> and holding that kinda average over that distance, you're flying
[17:42] <charl_> i mean not so fast, i could do that too
[17:43] <Symmetria> charl, you gotta be kidding me, to average 143 
[17:43] <Symmetria> you gotta be crusing 240+
[17:43] <charl_> oh wait to average, i see what you mean now
[17:43] <charl_> ouch :)
[17:43] <Symmetria> 550 kilometers in 4 hours is... fast
[17:43] <magespawn> work out what the top end is if the ave is 143
[17:43] <charl_> no kidding
[17:43] <Symmetria> lol, I was in a hurry
[17:43] <Symmetria> ;p
[17:44] <charl_> no bulls*** :)
[17:44] <magespawn> next time do gps logging to see the speed at different points
[17:44] <Symmetria> lol when my new car arrives we'll see if I can do sub 4 hours
[17:44] <Symmetria> ;p
[17:44] <charl_> phew, ok, just keep safe !
[17:44] <charl_> i need to go watch a movie, bbl
[17:44] <Symmetria> live fast, die young, make a good looking corpse
[17:44] <Symmetria> and in my case, the latter is not possible
[17:44] <charl_> :D
[17:45] <Symmetria> so I'll just go with 2 outta 3 aint bad ;p
[17:45] <charl_> lol!!!
[17:45] <magespawn> the problem is not the car, it is the roads and the other cars
[17:45] <Symmetria> magespawn yeah but that particular road is *awesome*
[17:45] <Symmetria> and there are virtually no other cars on it at the time I drive ;p
[17:45] <Symmetria> *lol* the other day I drove up to bloemfontein, and the entire way from east london to reddersburg (400 kilometers)
[17:45] <Symmetria> I passed a total of 3 cars
[17:46] <Symmetria> absolutely NOTHING out there after midnight, no trucks, no cars, no bugger all
[17:46] <Symmetria> lol the road between mariantal and the .za border had more traffic on it than that ;p
[17:47] <magespawn> up in the northern cape they have that road they do the test drives on
[17:47] <Symmetria> kilos lemme know if you got any questions about that preso btw
[17:47] <Symmetria> magespawn heh, I took my car round kyalami
[17:47] <Symmetria> that was fun
[17:48] <Kilos> well explained metrhinks
[17:48] <Symmetria> but lol, when you wanna take the car on the track, you first gotta phone the insurance company and tell em you doing it
[17:48] <Symmetria> and they charge you a day racing rate
[17:48] <Symmetria> and that rate is... horrific ;p
[17:48] <magespawn> track days are fun, did a couple sponsered by bmw, audi etc
[17:48] <Symmetria> lol, not to mention that I ate through an entire set of tires in a day on the track and haha, can't do that often, because that = insanely expensive
[17:49] <Symmetria> magespawn lol, its a lot of fun, but the bill for a few set of tyres at 23 grand after the day is done isn't
[17:49] <Kilos> eeek
[17:49] <Symmetria> few/new
[17:49] <magespawn> i did not drive my own car, so that was good
[17:50] <Symmetria> lol, did they teach you how to powerslide etc?
[17:50] <Symmetria> thats where you really chew tyres 
[17:50] <Symmetria> and where you are most likely to screw up and write off a car if you get it wrong ;p
[17:51] <Symmetria> I've come pretty damn close to rolling a coupla cars sliding through corners on tracks 
[17:51] <Symmetria> but so far, I've only ever written off one car, and haha, that was because I was told it wasn't gonna happen when they were testing the car out at bmw roslyn
[17:52] <Symmetria> (rolled a bmw 650 on the skid pan at rosslyn)
[17:52] <Symmetria> lol, it was not an easy thing to accomplish
[17:53] <Kilos> inetpro: i love ctrl+r
[17:53] <Kilos> will need to work that into xchat sometime
[17:54] <Kilos> or gnome
[17:54] <magespawn> no they taught racing around the track
[17:55] <Symmetria> lol yeah but if you aint sliding at certain points your time is gonna suffer
[17:57] <magespawn> true but it was very controlled stuff
[18:29] <inetpro> Kilos: eventually
[18:29] <inetpro> Kilos: now please stop formatting and re-installing
[18:29] <Kilos> lol man its not by choice
[18:29] <inetpro> ai!
[18:30] <Kilos> i didnt put quantal packages into precise 
[18:31] <Kilos> and who would suspect hardware on a working pc to crash with an update
[18:33] <Kilos> i must say ai! not you
[18:33] <Kilos> twit
[18:39] <magespawn> superfly how did you get your contacts off the n900?
[18:39] <superfly> magespawn: exported to a file, then imported on S3
[18:39] <superfly> IIRC
[18:40] <magespawn> ahh right was hoping i could do it enmasse via bllue tooth or something
[18:43] <superfly> magespawn: no, mine exported to a bunch of files, and then I was able to import all the files in one shot
[18:46] <magespawn> yup at least it is better that transfering one by one
[19:10] <magespawn> later all
[19:11] <charl_> nn magespawn
[19:11] <charl_> nn all
[19:14] <superfly> tumbleweed: ping
[19:28] <nuvolari> bloep
[19:28] <nuvolari> oom Kilos 
[19:28] <nuvolari> slaap oom al?
[19:29] <Kilos> nee 
[19:29] <Kilos> lol
[19:29] <nuvolari> oh
[19:29] <nuvolari> nou hoekom nie?
[19:29] <nuvolari> :P
[19:29] <Kilos> hmm...
[19:30] <Kilos> te moeg om te dink hoekom
[19:30] <nuvolari> lol nee vra maar net oom
[19:30] <nuvolari> ek sien waar staan die tyd
[19:33] <Kilos> ek probeer sien of ek 11 uur kan maak om updates vir lubuntu+mate te kry
[19:34] <Kilos> nuvolari: wat gebruik jy nou?
[19:38] <Symmetria> haha man my dog is camera shy I swear it, you point a camera or a cellphone at her to take video and she refuses to look at it and will start barking at you
[19:38] <Symmetria> its very funny
[19:38] <Kilos> hehe you let that dog rule you
[19:39] <inetpro> Kilos: dis nog lank voor 23:00
[19:39] <Kilos> im sure if you ask her who is the boss she will bark "well me of course
[19:40] <Kilos> 1huur 15 minute inetpro
[19:40] <Kilos> moet maar wag en nag brande plank ryer data gebruik
[19:40] <Kilos> brander
[19:41] <Symmetria> hahaha kilos
[19:41] <Symmetria> she knows full well she's the boss
[19:41] <Symmetria> she's like any other female on the planet 
[19:41] <Kilos> haha i thought so
[19:41] <Symmetria> "pay attention to me or Im gonna make your life miserable"
[19:41] <Symmetria> ;p
[19:42] <Symmetria> haha she's like a rebellious female teenager crossed with a very willful 3 year old ;p
[19:42] <Symmetria> trying to get her to go to bed at night is a nightmare haha
[19:42] <Kilos> hehe
[19:42] <Symmetria> but I adore her so its ok :)
[19:43] <Symmetria> hahha she's trying to climb on my lap now and dammit she weights 32 kgs
[19:50] <Kilos> hi theblazehen Guest69076
[19:50] <Guest69076> Hey :)
[19:50] <theblazehen> hi Kilos Guest69076 is a new dude :)
[19:50] <theblazehen> helped him install arch
[19:50] <Guest69076> Yep :D
[19:50] <Kilos> can arch do xchat
[19:50] <theblazehen> yep. pacman -S xchat
[19:50] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za guest
[19:51] <theblazehen> Kilos, he dual boots ubuntu too
[19:51] <Kilos> now get xchat and sort a nick out
[19:51] <Guest69076> thanks :P Still so new to this :P
[19:51] <Kilos> good
[19:51] <Kilos> unity?
[19:51] <theblazehen> yep
[19:51] <Kilos> well keep helping him theblazehen
[19:52] <Kilos> arch and ubuntu is good
[19:52] <theblazehen> sure :) walked him through whole install
[19:52] <Kilos> good lass
[19:52] <theblazehen> complete linux noob on friday
[19:52] <theblazehen> guy*
[19:52] <Kilos> well done
[19:52] <inetpro> theblazehen: why arch?
[19:52] <Kilos> guy?
[19:53] <theblazehen> yep
[19:53] <Kilos> hens lay eggs
[19:53] <Kilos> female
[19:53] <theblazehen> inetpro, so he can learn more about linux
[19:53] <Kilos> sorry laddy
[19:53] <theblazehen> lol
[19:53] <tumbleweed> superfly: 'sup
[19:53] <inetpro> theblazehen: you mean if he uses ubuntu he won't learn about linux?
[19:54] <theblazehen> inetpro, arch forces you to learn
[19:54] <Kilos> should be theblazerooster then
[19:54] <theblazehen> inetpro, he has ubuntu on the desktop i think
[19:54] <Symmetria> :) if you wanna force someone to use, inflict gentoo on them 
[19:54] <Symmetria> someone to learn I mean
[19:55] <Guest69076> yep, ur right theblazehen
[19:55] <inetpro> Symmetria: I also thought so :-)
[19:55] <Symmetria> of course that may chase them away from linux forever more 
[19:55] <Symmetria> because there is nothing more godaweful or stupid than gentoo ;p
[19:55] <theblazehen> Symmetria, im only tell people to use stuff i can use :p

[19:55] <theblazehen> Symmetria, im also not that evil
[19:56] <theblazehen> (he has slow laptop)
[19:56] <Symmetria> lol theblazehen I'd rather use dos + windows 3 + mosaic than gentoo ;p
[19:56] <inetpro> Kilos: so maybe you should try arch
[19:56] <Kilos> nope
[19:56] <inetpro> Kilos: it forces you to learn :-)
[19:56] <Kilos> theblazehen: lubuntu with mate installed works lekker onna slower pc
[19:56] <Symmetria> (though I admit, I was masochistic enough to use gentoo for a while)
[19:56] <Kilos> hahaha
[19:56] <superfly> tumbleweed: trying to figure out the best way to create OpenLP nightly packages in our PPA using an updated version of the debian source package
[19:56] <theblazehen> Symmetria, that combination is not too bad. tried it once
[19:57] <theblazehen> Kilos, fast enough to use, slow enough not too compile stuff
[19:57] <Kilos> i have no problem learning. my prob is remembering what i learned
[19:57] <tumbleweed> superfly: LP recipes
[19:58] <theblazehen> bye guys, have to sleep now
[19:58] <superfly> tumbleweed: we're currently using a recipe, but we've changed stuff between 2.0 and trunk
[19:58] <Symmetria> theblazehen *LOL* over the years I think I've used it all, dos 3, dos 5, dos 6, dr dos, os2, windows 3.0, windows 3.1, windows nt 3.5, windows nt 4, windows me, windows xp, windows 7, windows vista, osx, solaris, linux, freebsd, qnx, openbsd, netbsd, beos, vax
[19:58] <Symmetria> oh and irix and aix 
[19:58] <theblazehen> Symmetria, thats a lot...
[19:59] <Symmetria> these days I stick to a combination of ubuntu for servers and windows 7 / osx for desktops 
[19:59] <inetpro> Kilos: just Lather, rinse and repeat often until your fingers do the walking
[19:59] <theblazehen> Symmetria, ok
[19:59] <Kilos> lol
[19:59] <Symmetria> and technically freebsd for routers since junipers run a modified version of bsd 
[19:59] <Symmetria> :)
[19:59] <theblazehen> inetpro, true, until your fingers always walk over the s-u-d-o keys
[19:59] <Kilos> aw guest gone already
[20:00] <Symmetria> its a real pitty they never kept developing irix and the machines it ran on
[20:00] <Symmetria> irix was... mindblowing for its day
[20:00] <theblazehen> Kilos, will be back tomorrow
[20:00] <Symmetria> 3d desktops ftw ;p
[20:00] <tumbleweed> superfly: a separate packaging branch for the recipes?
[20:00] <theblazehen> Symmetria, awesome
[20:00] <Kilos> and inetproyou know im a buntu faithful
[20:00] <superfly> tumbleweed: ja, was thinking that
[20:00] <Kilos> only tried tinycore as well
[20:00] <theblazehen> Kilos, he has to share his internet
[20:00] <Symmetria> heh and aix already had live adjustable file systems in 1996 
[20:00] <Kilos> shame
[20:01] <theblazehen> Kilos, try arch in a VM some time perhaps
[20:01] <Symmetria> heh aix's filesystem in 96 was more advanced than anything anyone else had for *years*
[20:01] <theblazehen> Symmetria, like lvm or what?
[20:01] <Symmetria> theblazehen like, lvm on steroids
[20:01] <inetpro> Kilos: I know, was just joking
[20:01] <Kilos> will be a while till theres data to waste on other stuff
[20:01] <theblazehen> Symmetria, awesome...
[20:01] <Symmetria> stick a new drive into aix and just assign space from it to whatever and whereever you wanted
[20:01] <Kilos> jaja inetpro as usual
[20:01] <theblazehen> Kilos, thats a shame :(
[20:01] <theblazehen> Symmetria, thats really cool
[20:02] <Symmetria> it was basically like, lvm and zfs and everything good about every other filesystem Ive ever used rolled into one
[20:02] <Kilos> last 2 weeks have used my 2 months quota almost
[20:02] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:02] <Kilos> and all because of graphics card
[20:02] <Symmetria> solaris had some nice features as well
[20:02] <inetpro> Kilos: when it's done just get another one
[20:02] <theblazehen> Symmetria, i should perhps try it in a VM
[20:02] <Symmetria> theblazehen you cant sadly
[20:02] <inetpro> Kilos: you'll have lot's of night owl data
[20:02] <theblazehen> Symmetria, why not?
[20:02] <Symmetria> aix doesnt run on normal pc hardware
[20:02] <Symmetria> its risc based 
[20:02] <Kilos> nope used it for lubuntu
[20:03] <theblazehen> Symmetria, cant bochs do risc processors?
[20:03] <Kilos> got 75 meg there and 73 updates on lubuntu
[20:03] <Symmetria> theblazehen I very much doubt you could emulate enough to run aix, might be worth a try but I doubt it
[20:03] <Kilos> 73m updates
[20:03] <theblazehen> Symmetria, awesome - ill try it sometime
[20:04] <Kilos> oh you mean with another one added
[20:04] <Kilos> hehe
[20:04] <theblazehen> bye guys
[20:04] <Kilos> chow now the
[20:04] <Kilos> sjoe
[20:05] <Kilos> looks like MxG also uses kde
[20:06] <Symmetria> lol, last irix release was in 2006
[20:06] <Symmetria> August 16th 2006 saw the end of irix :(
[20:09] <Kilos> so now nuvolari has fallen asleep
[20:10] <Symmetria> heh http://www.trygve.com/onyx3200outside.jpg
[20:10] <Symmetria> that was an awesome machine in its day
[20:11] <Symmetria> http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/apps/onyxgs02.jpg
[20:12] <Symmetria> heh, those things were just sick in their time, and were pretty much the defacto standard for machines used to render animated films
[20:12] <Symmetria> iirc toy story was rendered on sgi onyx's 
[20:12] <inetpro> Kilos: hmm... when did MxG join us here?
[20:14] <Kilos> about a month ago when they were talking about complaining about pcs coming with ms on and no choice
[20:14] <Symmetria> lol, Origin 3800, 512 cpus, a terabyte of ram, and 16 racks big 
[20:14] <Symmetria> discounted in 2004 
[20:14] <Kilos> that whole story just faded away
[20:15] <Symmetria> discontinued I mean
[20:15] <Symmetria> lol, 512 600mhz risc cpus, Im betting that that thing would probably outrun my modern desktop even today
[20:16] <Squirm> evening
[20:16] <Symmetria> holy crap, it had a 48bit video card with 128meg of video ram on it in *2004*
[20:17] <Symmetria> god I dont wanna know what that musta cost
[20:17] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[20:17] <Kilos> mate on lubuntu 12.04 works kiff
[20:18] <Squirm> had such a weekend
[20:18] <Squirm> after this water it's sleep
[20:18] <Kilos> ok night. sleep tight
[20:18] <Kilos> old man
[20:19] <Squirm> Kilos: you have no idea :/
[20:19] <Kilos> bad week lad?
[20:19] <inetpro> Kilos: with that nickname he must be from the mail & guardian ?
[20:20] <Kilos> no man ill tell you who it is when im on xchat
[20:20] <Squirm> Kilos: just the past 24hours :P
[20:20] <Kilos> konversation doesnt show
[20:20] <Kilos> what happened Squirm?
[20:20] <Squirm> I'm so glad I still have Sunday tomorrow
[20:21] <Kilos> lol someone will wake you early
[20:21] <Squirm> It feels like I have to wake up and work :/
[20:21] <Squirm> Kilos: mebbe another time
[20:21] <Squirm> heh
[20:21] <Kilos> ok
[20:21] <Squirm> they will be shot :P
[20:21] <Kilos> haha
[20:22] <Symmetria> hahaha holy crap, sgi still exists and makes a new cluster system, 256 x 8 core Intel Xeon cpus with 64 terabytes of ram
[20:22] <Symmetria> except... it runs deadrat :( 
[20:22] <Symmetria> lol 2048 xeon cores... my god you could render video pretty fast on that thing ;p
[20:22]  * Squirm watches Symmetria talking to himself
[20:22] <Squirm> he must be feeling like I am
[20:23] <Symmetria> Squirm hahah Im rambling but that is truely an awesome machine
[20:23] <Symmetria> http://www.sgi.com/products/servers/uv/configs.html
[20:23] <Squirm> Symmetria: you're still talking to yourself though :P
[20:23] <Symmetria> ;p squirm I been talking to myself for years 
[20:24] <Kilos> no wonder the dog is the boss
[20:24] <Symmetria> generally when I wanna talk to the smartest person in the room I tend to ramble to myself *snicker* 
[20:24]  * Symmetria hides
[20:24] <Squirm> Symmetria: I know
[20:24] <Squirm> lol
[20:24] <Kilos> lol
[20:24] <Squirm> that was actually clever
[20:24] <Kilos> Symmetria: you are the only one here that knows a bit
[20:25] <Squirm> Symmetria: I'll read that link tomorrow
[20:25] <Squirm> it's open but I can't exatly focus :/
[20:25] <Squirm> eyes are burning
[20:25] <Symmetria> Squirm haha my boss got real upset at me once when I worked at UCT and I told him once I was constantly late because the voices in my head kept me awake all night and I had to get some sleep
[20:25] <Kilos> everyone else knows lots
[20:25] <Symmetria> ;p
[20:25] <Kilos> nut
[20:25] <Squirm> lol Symmetria 
[20:26] <Symmetria> kilos *laugh* most if not every person in this room could out program me in a heart beat, its different areas of knowledge is all
[20:26] <Squirm> .:Kilos:. Symmetria: you are the only one here that knows a bit
[20:26] <Squirm> .:Kilos:. everyone else knows lots
[20:26]  * Squirm laughs
[20:26] <Kilos> im joking man
[20:26] <Symmetria> I know enough programming to be dangerous and write evil network exploits though ;p
[20:26] <Squirm> kudos Kilos 
[20:28] <Symmetria> btw
[20:28] <Symmetria> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0BM6aB90n8
[20:28] <Symmetria> heh for anyone who is interested in what a *TRUE* network hack can do
[20:29] <Symmetria> heh thats a friend of mine presenting at defcon a few years ago
[20:29] <Symmetria> scary thing is, whats detailed there, still works today just fine 
[20:29] <Symmetria> heh true genius in that one though
[20:30] <Kilos> inetpro: 30 mins
[20:34] <Kilos-> ai!
[20:34] <Kilos-> network hackers got me
[20:50] <Kilos> inetpro, go sleep
[20:50]  * inetpro is sleeping
[20:51] <Kilos> hahaha
[20:51] <Kilos> 9 mins
[20:51] <Kilos> you arent supposed to sleep in church on sundays
[20:59] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight