=== Lump|AFK is now known as Lumpy [01:45] heyas [01:51] Lumpy, hello [01:52] Did you get my long winded email? [01:59] zequence, if we are getting in for 13.04 beta 1 reply to mail of ubuntu-release please [02:06] uh i dunno might have accidentally filtered it to nothingness [02:06] what did you need Len-nb [02:09] found it len [02:10] will read it between sets [02:11] smartboyhw: I asked scott to do that, and he said he did. But, I haven't seen any action on that [02:12] Maybe he posted to the wrong adress or something [02:12] zequence, yeah. And also, stgraber seemed to forgotten the switch from ~ubuntustudio-core to ~ubuntustudio-release... [02:12] zequence, you send or I send? [02:12] it can get messy quick can't it len [02:13] smartboyhw: I'll take care of it [02:25] Just finding out about the realities of lots of en/decoding. [02:26] len_1304: If you find something evil, will you let us know ;) [02:27] * len_1304 has been working with Lumpy on broadcast workflows... [02:28] cool [02:28] The minimum usable system is somewhat more than what I have. but perhaps within the abilities of a modern machine [02:30] zequence, one of the prime workflows in broadcasting is phone to air. [02:32] a skype or linphone app is much lower latency than ogg/mp3 streaming (though higher than guitarix) [02:32] the latency can be fun [02:32] and it can be fun trying to figure out what is eating up cycles [02:32] In the end there may be as many as 5 or 6 encoders and or decoders running at the same time. [02:32] another reason we run our voip in through a board [02:33] helps take it out of the equation so to speak [02:33] Ya. [02:33] tonight, I am trying to crash the PC and just can't seem to make it do so [02:33] and i jacked up the latency [02:34] still getting an occasional xrun [02:34] I thought cutting pulse down to 2 channels might help... it did help. [02:34] like one every two or three hours [02:34] i don't use pulse in my setup [02:34] jackd at two chans [02:34] No need. [02:34] running jackrack adds a few cycles though [02:34] Jack uses not much 2 channels or 10. [02:35] effects use more yes. [02:35] I try to match my channels to my output [02:35] I use the card I have :) [02:35] i use an ancient soundblaster here [02:36] and the old beast still works good enough [02:36] smartboyhw: Once you log out and in again, you should have rights on the ISO QA site [02:39] i am using just a tad bit of compression and some equalization to kill the pc fans [02:40] Every broadcast facility I have been in has some form of "sweetening" before air like an orban optomod [02:41] broadcasting and radio is something I've never been close to [02:41] Makes for a more consistent signal level [02:41] Otherwise, I've done pretty much anything that has to do with audio [02:42] I worked in both radio and tv from 79 to 84 or so. [02:42] you are correct len, i am too on a P4 but mine is a dual core [02:43] Dual core? or hyperthread? [02:43] dual core, one of the first [02:44] 2.4 GHz pm a Intel Wasp D65 mobo [02:44] with 2 gig or RAM [02:44] When I finally upgrade I will go dual or quad. [02:45] the G5 is a multi processor [02:45] not much good for current stuff due to lack of support but a nice post processing machine [02:47] The supermicro MB look really good for low latency stuff. [02:47] Even some of the lower end ones. [02:47] are you using the low latency kernel? [02:48] yes. [02:48] holstein says we don't need it but i like it [02:48] i would rather have everything other than audio die in crash first [02:48] I think it is about matching the application to the latency [02:49] even when i have over runs, you can't hear them in the final product [02:50] For really low latency I turn hyperthreading off. But if I can handle higher latency, I might get better performance with it on. [02:51] Like I may be able to handle more DSP tasks. [02:54] You don't need linux-lowlatency, if you don't need low latency [02:54] But, if you do, you need it [02:54] Simple as that [02:54] lol [02:54] Ya, there is that [02:55] but, there is low latency and low latency. [02:55] and you don't need to increase your latency unless you need to increase your latency.. then you do [02:55] :) [02:55] it is pretty much like i have always said [02:55] go out there and screw it up.. fix it... repeat [02:56] This system: https://www.osadl.org/Profile-of-system-in-rack-2-slot-0.qa-profile-r2s0.0.html is getting about 30us max latency for example. [02:56] Mine is doing good to get in around 1ms [02:57] with tweaks. Well the other one is tweaked as well... [02:58] i took the jack latency to 90 some ms [02:58] and haven't had an overrun since [02:58] Your phone line needs to be less.... and is by default [02:59] i still lean to the mixer for that [02:59] for the bucks you spend on a mixer and all [02:59] that and you can tweak you firewall for your voip line [02:59] and, len, don't forget to double check that [02:59] bust the ports open on your voip [03:00] just in case you didn't think of that [03:00] I am not sure what codec TS uses but skype and many others use speex which is lower latency than ogg. [03:01] I wasn't gong through the FW at all. 100mb line all internal. (this side of the FW [03:02] From phone to icecast [03:02] well if you are going to do voip, incoming, just make sure you have the right ports open [03:02] Ya. [03:02] it can create it's own latency so to speak [03:03] If there is a proxy yes. [03:03] an open port is better. [03:03] another reason why we try and stick with teamspeak [03:03] we can host it on our own server and there are no relays [03:04] well done sip can do without relays too. [03:04] Sip just sets the call up. [03:05] i am sure there are many ways to achieve the same thing with it [03:05] i was chatting with some one else who does streaming and they swear by MIXX [03:06] There is a broadcast standard for using sip for audio contribution. [03:06] which I have never even looked at [03:06] Mixxx is picky about video drivers. [03:06] It will run on my laptop but not my desktop. [03:07] But on my lap top half of it is out of my screen area. [03:07] So it is not usable for me. [03:07] i have never tried it [03:08] and exactly what is the sip protocol all about [03:08] i can't recall if it sends any metadata [03:08] SIP is a connection protocol. [03:08] The meta data is in the stream itself [03:09] right [03:09] reading the wikipedia page on it now [03:09] it is possible to use SIP to set up an MP3 or ogg stream for example. [03:09] or video or html [03:09] Yes. [03:10] Or text chat even. [03:10] sooner or later we will have a nice neat uniform format... lol... we have been saying that since the atari days [03:11] i happened on a new article on line [03:11] aparently there is some TV station in Chicago that is still using an Amiga for it's closed caption [03:12] * Lumpy fires up his vic-20 [03:14] There is opus [03:14] i used to link C-64s together back in the day [03:14] It is a mix of speex/celt [03:15] so i could use all the SIDs at once [03:15] I kind of skipped those [03:15] they were the best sound chip of the day imho [03:15] Went from synclar to atari mega [03:16] i went from a 20 to 64 to an amiga [03:16] then got into i86s [03:16] The mega had the best midi solution at the time... and I could aford it. [03:16] my 64 was all jacked up actuall [03:17] had an external hd even [03:17] four minutes to mic for me atm [03:17] so if i seem hereish [03:18] I was getting into BBSs so I went OS/2 then Linux [03:18] I was a big BBS nut too [03:18] * len_1304 seems to have skipped the MS thing too. [03:18] that and I think I spent most of my college money on compuserve [03:19] i really was not into the PC stuff for long [03:19] 98, ME and XP [03:19] and XP is more a remnent [03:19] Lumpy: holstein said *you* might not need it [03:20] if you need it, you need it.. but most folk dont [03:20] :) :) [03:20] most folks just trip about needing/wanting it [03:20] His SW needs jack, but it could probably get away without it running real time. [03:21] ntl holstein is usually correct [03:21] i try and stick to the facts :) [03:21] and yah, i trip about needing wanting everything i can get out of this old beast [03:21] i did too... [03:22] but 90ms is hardly lowlatency. [03:23] i can run it as low as 32 [03:23] but then i get xruns [03:23] well.... compared to an ogg stream... [03:23] an ogg stream might be 5sec or more. [03:23] I think even for consumers, who want to play around with audio apps, low latency quickly becomes important. It's whenever you do something live, and that's usually primarily using a midi keyboard to play a soft synth. You just can't do that with a generic kernel. That's why -lowlatency is really the better default, no matter what ambitions you have in music [03:24] The only time you might not want it is (and I don't know how big of a problem this is) - when you need to save battery [03:24] i have not really played with the MIDI while streaming [03:24] Doesn't make any difference on an atom based machine. But on other laptops it does. [03:24] but will sometime in the future [03:25] i have an atom based machine [03:25] only used it to stream once [03:25] generic kernel [03:26] if its not 10ms, then it might as well be 90 [03:26] Some of the atom mother boards with the dual core 64bit atoms can get really good low latency. [03:26] i can hear 20 [03:26] holstein, that is not really true in all things. [03:26] 15 or so and i can hear it.. so it might as well be 90 [03:26] in VOIP work [03:26] -lowlatency is probably the better choice for desktops. The main reason why it's not an option on Ubuntu is a 10% decrease in troughput, which is something that servers need [03:26] len_1304: thats true [03:27] -rt on the other hand is a bit more extreme [03:28] good sub ms latency. [03:28] if the system is tweaked [03:30] * len_1304 has used guitarix with .725 ms set on jack and less than an xrun maybe every 5 to 10 min. [03:30] that would be lowlatency kernel [03:31] i have barely played with guitarix [03:31] The machine was well tweaked, with next to nothing else happening. [03:31] worse thing is i bought the usb jack for my parker and then never even plugged it in again [03:31] Something that people don't realize is that on Windows you're never told if there's an audio drop out. The only way to tell is if you heard it [03:31] So, one wonders how often they happen [03:32] And, on Mac, some apps do object when that happens. But, not others, like Cubase [03:32] windows === windblows [03:32] least for audio [03:32] least for me [03:32] and i hated SAM [03:32] cubase on xp was fine [03:32] barely used cubase [03:32] once i happened on audacity and linux [03:33] i was pretty much done with buying audio software [03:33] although, i think i was one of six people in the world that had any luck with ME [03:34] i ran ME for 12 years [03:34] I've had no problems with Cubase and XP. Used that for many years. I used OSX in paralell for a couple of years. This was around 2004-2005. Found OSX a lot more prone to crashes [03:34] i ran ME forever on my creative m003 mobo [03:35] was the only machine i ever liked it on but it ran and ran and ran [03:35] go figure [03:35] windows is that free thing that comes with the machine, I replace it with something useful when I get the box home. [03:35] lol [03:35] i boot into XP once a week to update it [03:35] tis all [03:35] The next machine I buy will either have a Linux preinstalled, or nothing [03:36] I usually just buy PC parts, but I might get a laptop next [03:36] I try to build from the MB up, but with netbooks that is kinda hard. [03:36] i usually get scrap parts and build [03:36] the m003 was the last kit one i built [03:36] and that was in the 90s [03:37] i used jack and ardour on osx.. worked fine. the same pretty much [03:37] and len does your rig ever use the swap space? [03:37] or does it pretty much hum along on just the ram [03:37] Swap space use in audio = fail [03:38] i still put a swap on each drive [03:38] despite the fact that it never seems to use it [03:39] I put swap in... the only use for it is that if I go into swap with audio it doesn't kick the audio app out so I have a chance to save stuff before I start that track over. [03:40] But once anything audio gets into swap... even something GUI only like qjackctl... the whole audio chain gets affected in my experience [03:41] yup... you start to so so sound li like ike.. ya know [03:41] and once it starts, it doe not seem to like to stop [03:41] I have had the sound stop for several 10s of sec. [03:42] it will be three hours at the top of the hour [03:42] But I have never had that happen in real audio use yet. Only while testing to see how many audio apps I could get going at once. [03:42] 0 xruns [03:42] once again, holstein ftw [03:43] \o/ [03:43] i am going to have to bust out the Parker next [03:43] then the MIDI [03:44] i am confident i can make the whole thing crash and burn [03:44] midi is usually easy/ight [03:44] light* [03:44] esp since my midi is an old video game card [03:45] yeah but if i run idjc, guitarix and midi software all at once [03:45] probably more stable than a USB midi. [03:45] i would think i would just be begging for some latency issues then [03:46] Lumpy: nah... its the stuff happening in the box that will be the issue, i say [03:46] the midi information is really small [03:46] that is it's strong suit [03:46] nice compact digital info [03:47] uh oh Jack: **** alsa_pcm: xrun of at least 0.087 msecs [03:47] spoke too soon [03:47] like who could hear that anyhow [03:47] i have some old midi gear just hollerin for me to play with it [03:48] a yamaha dx-7 and a roland dr-5 [03:48] last time i did anything with them was in windows [03:48] i think i used anvil for it [03:49] my kb is also a DX7 [03:50] i have the very first one actually [03:50] I don't use it for sound, just midi. new in 85ish [03:51] i inherited it from an old room mate [03:51] he didn't want it anymore... go figure [03:51] i like the old heavy beast [03:51] To get rid of spurious xruns like that probably turn off things like cron... [03:51] good for curls, really builds the biceps [03:52] such a small xrun though [03:52] I like the action. enough weighting for most things and little enough where it is not wanted. [03:53] i don't actually ever play it anymore [03:53] i was more the guitarist [04:08] i wonder if 36 instances of chrome might have anything to do with my xrun [04:08] odd thing is that my cpu usage is constantly hanging low [04:08] it is not jumping up even for a second [04:08] so why an xrun if the cpu is not taxed? [04:09] hard drive could be [04:09] dunno [04:10] lots of hard drive space [04:10] synergy keeps eating up cycles though [04:10] i am not luving this new beta of synergy [04:11] i generally disable networking [04:11] i turn the cpu govenor off [04:11] i would be a tad dead without networking [04:12] yeah? [04:12] i dont do normal computing on my audio rig [04:12] i disable the pulse to jack bridge [04:12] its more of an audio appliance [04:12] i used to remove pulse completely [04:12] and, yeah, i want to build a rig like that [04:12] i just need one more pc [04:12] i dont have any issue with pluse.. i just dont need it [04:13] well if i build one for audio only, i would likely feel the same [04:13] never really cared much for pulse [04:13] but i think it was skype that needed it [04:13] and i was going to try and get that voip working with idjc just for giggles [04:14] if it weren [04:14] er [04:14] even though it may be a pia, i think i might tweak the G5 to be audio only [04:14] i just need a way to hook the midi stuff up [04:16] i have been using the G5 for post production and it works well for that [04:16] but that old PowerPC is not that well supported anymore [04:16] ive been using the G4 i have to prop the door open [04:16] which kinda suck cuz it seems like a sweet architecture [04:17] its really the best performance ive gotten out of that machine [04:17] lol [04:18] my G5 is the only thing i have that is 64 bit [04:18] eh.. you'l get something [04:19] i have 3 64bit machine i got for nothing [04:19] just kind of a shame, the dual cpu arch still had some use [04:19] then we went multicore and forgot about it [04:20] i can do post production about 30% faster on it though [04:20] but yeah, i will get something sooner or later [04:20] and besides, half the game is making due with what you got [04:20] for me, its never an issue of getting the machine to do more work, or faster [04:21] for me, post production time is the bottleneck [04:21] it is real easy to hit the record and stream button [04:22] what i really need is a staff of henchmen.. heh [04:38] holstein, it is kind of hard to broadcast on internet with no networking... [04:39] yeah, i would consider that an obstacle [04:39] having browsers open is something else though :) [04:39] yup... i always had to re-enable to stream [04:39] i am leaving them open to tax the system [04:39] hitting refresh often [04:39] and still can't force a crash [04:40] sudo apt-get update [04:40] must be doing something right, can't jack the cpu over 70% [04:41] well that takes it to about 88% [04:41] and now it is done already [04:42] There is a package called stress that is supposed to stress the system for testing... [04:43] is it in the repos? [04:43] yup [04:43] well as soon as all these updates install [04:44] who would have thought one would be streaming while updating 20 years ago [04:45] In the early days of linux it was formatting a floppy while doing stuff. [04:46] There is also cpuburn... but that seems to be for putting thermal stress on the system. [04:52] installed [04:52] stress --cpu 1 seems to use up whatever cpu cycles whatever else isn't using. [04:53] once i am off the mic, i will give it a go [04:53] Right now mine is using 95% cpu... till I do anything. [04:55] still only jacked it 88 [04:57] well stress -c 2 takes it right to the max [04:58] and no xruns [04:58] thats good, i think [04:59] yeah, in the way it was good before [05:00] no issues but still no clue as to the crash weeks ago [05:00] brb [05:02] back [05:02] hello [05:02] heya ifndef [05:03] making friends over there in open source eh holstein [05:03] :p [05:03] jk [05:03] how's it going, lumpy? [05:05] it is going [05:05] you? [05:06] pretty well man. it's my first time hopping here, what is the purpose? other than bantering with the devs haha [05:07] that, imho, more or less is the purpose [05:07] that and it is a great resource for help [05:08] len and holstein save my butt often [05:09] sounds good. I've never helped out with anything like this, but I [05:09] just joined the mailing list and saw that you guys had a channel [05:10] and len_1304, it is synergy [05:10] synergy is eating up cycles like crazy [05:10] and there is nothing in the log about errors [05:10] just keeps eating up cycles [05:10] the longer i run it, the more it creeps up [05:11] then i kill it and then it drops back down to climb again [05:19] that sounds bugish [05:19] I have not had that problem with ssh -Y ... [05:24] it does it all the time [05:25] the idjc stuff is using about 34 % [05:25] meterbridge about 6 [05:26] jack rack about 6 [05:26] right now synergy is at 2 but give it some time and it climbs slowly [06:42] zequence, got it [07:09] there are some interesting things about running apps on a remote x server. [07:10] just about everything is like running on the remote computer... except x config applies to the local x server still. [07:10] Len-nb, OK [07:11] Len-nb, prepare to test Beta 1 :P [07:11] so if I run arandr on my desktop through the x server on my netbook it sees my netbook screen not the desktop one [07:11] has beta one given us an iso? [07:13] Len-nb, not yet:P [07:13] Len-nb, wait till Monday [07:13] And I want to get Blender 2.66a in [07:13] We are still having issues with stupid powerpc [07:48] well i got my crash [07:48] and the error log is useless [07:48] more or less, it told me that it left the screen but could not come back [07:48] like thaaaanks [08:24] Len-nb, you want me to fix the lmms bug? [08:26] Len-nb, hmm lmms depends on lmms-common (= ${source:Version}) ...... [08:28] night all === Lumpy is now known as Lump|AFK [08:29] REALLY WEIRD [08:33] I think what happened is that it depended on the source:Version of lmms IN LOCAL COMPUTER === smartboyhw_ is now known as smartboyhw [13:22] * smartboyhw is writing his debate script [15:27] inkscape is quite buggy actually [15:28] It's really difficult to work with patterns. [15:29] zequence, oh is it? [15:34] Working with patterns means you can spot a single pixel being off on a whole line [15:35] At least when the pattern is very small and simple [15:37] zequence, pattern creation and alignment are critical [15:38] If the glitch shows up at every pattern boundary then the pattern is faulty [15:40] zequence, Do we have a freeze yet? [15:40] if not we should get your bg and settings in [15:41] Len-nb, yes [15:41] len_1304, ^ [15:41] lol [15:41] len_1304, just file an FFe [15:42] Just a thought about the default bg and other artwork. If we made the default BG and other artwork always have the same name... or have a link to whatever is default, then we would only have to disturb one package for each change. [15:44] smartboyhw, we have a daily build today, is that the one for testing? or wait til monday? [15:44] len_1304, wait till monday [15:45] ok. The icon theme finally defaults (yahoo) [15:45] len_1304, :D [15:45] GOOGLE! [15:55] google :P [15:56] len_1304, in response to yahoo:P [15:56] Ah Google doesn't have the same enthusiastic feel though [15:58] it looks like some of the problems people are having on install may be the usb-creator [15:59]