[04:05] <HPUbuntu> Hey there, The ubuntu 13.04 usb installer will not detect my windows HDD partition, it see's it as completely empty,
[05:25] <tigrang> Does skype not show in the tray for anyone else?
[05:29] <tigrang> Nvm, thought I had sni-qt installed, guess not
[08:34] <invariant> What exactly do you do to make life easier for developers on Ubuntu when compared to e.g. Fedora?
[08:34] <invariant> Fedora has automated debug-info tracking integrated into gdb for example.
[08:34] <invariant> AFAICT, Ubuntu has *nothing*.
[08:35] <invariant> Is the idea that Ubuntu is just a consumer system and that it is broken for development?
[09:47] <eagles0513875_> hey guys is anyone using cups as i am having issues logging into cups to add a printer :(
[10:40] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[14:50] <adrianrh> Hi! I have trouble with my .bashrc file, I have to source it every time I open a terminal, does anyone know how to permanently source it?
[14:53] <BluesKaj> hmm, no patience ..again
[16:41] <IdleOne> very disappointed after this mornings update. I am unable to login (loops back to login manager) and TTY is just a black screen.
[16:43] <johnjohn1011> after 13.04 is released, will there be a 13.10 or what?
[16:44] <IdleOne> lets see if we can get this released first
[16:45] <IdleOne> then think about what we haven't started working on yet
[16:45] <lunitik> johnjohn1011, No one really knows right now, I'm not sure everyone is convinced 13.04 will happen in the way prior releases have
[16:45] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: im on 13.04 on my tower and netbook of kubuntu
[16:45] <eagles0513875_> and im quite happy with it actually
[16:45] <lunitik> johnjohn1011, Right now they are talking about rolling with a release every month, if that is the case something will be released in October for sure
[16:46] <eagles0513875_> quite stable granted i was swearing at cups and apparmor
[16:46] <johnjohn1011> excited about all the changes coming down the road. canonical is making the big move here with mir and qt.
[16:46] <eagles0513875_> rolling release lunitik is goign to be ineresting
[16:47] <johnjohn1011> i can see a rolling release is good now because you can get stuff up to speed quickly,  i.e unity next, mir, all that.
[16:47] <BluesKaj> what's mir ?
[16:48] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, Perhaps, I just hope they have enough time in that scenario to actually get things done in between
[16:48] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: come summer i would really like to contribute more as linux is going ot be a big basis of my business
[16:49] <eagles0513875_> as well as promotion of use here locally both in government and school and much more
[16:49] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: on the kubuntu side of things how many developers does kubuntu have?
[16:49] <lunitik> BluesKaj, I tiny lib that while allow applications to talk to drivers
[16:49] <johnjohn1011> BluesKaj: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/05/canonical_mir_announcement/
[16:50] <BluesKaj> lunitik, ok thanks
[16:50] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, They have a few, BlueSystems guys all work together and release Mint KDE, Netrunner OS and Kubuntu as a combined thing
[16:50] <lunitik> BluesKaj, that will*
[16:50] <IdleOne> !mir
[16:50] <eagles0513875_> why not use wayland for the love of god
[16:51] <IdleOne> because they want to make their own
[16:51] <eagles0513875_> why reinvent the gosh darn wheel when there is something already in the works
[16:51] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: how many guys do you have an idea of the number?
[16:51] <IdleOne> because they want to make a better wheel
[16:51] <eagles0513875_> and when one says rolling release it will be like debian so to speak
[16:51] <eagles0513875_> IdleOne: why not fork the code and improve on it
[16:52] <johnjohn1011> seems to me that canonical may be able to use $ to pay nvidia and amd support the canonical platform
[16:52] <BluesKaj> mir ok , what happened to the wayland project johnjohn1011, lunitik
[16:52] <BluesKaj> ?
[16:52] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, That work for BlueSystems, probably 15-20, for all three distros and the various projects they're working on
[16:52] <lunitik> BluesKaj, Wayland is still around, but hasn't produced anything in 4 years
[16:53] <eagles0513875_> is there still a large amount of the community helping out?
[16:53] <johnjohn1011> wayland development moving too slow?
[16:54] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: your wrong last stable release was valentines day of this year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29
[16:54] <lunitik> johnjohn1011, Also, Wayland does EGL, while Mir will do OpenGL... and Mir won't have its own protocol, where wayland implements essentially a modern X11 protocol
[16:54] <eagles0513875_> Ubuntu     Mark Shuttleworth announced plans to eventually replace X with Wayland as the primary Ubuntu display server with their Unity desktop.[14] As of February 2013, Jono Bacon indicated that the plans to migrate Ubuntu to Wayland were under review, although no firm decision had been made.[15] In March 2013, Canonical formally cancelled plans to adopt Wayland, and announced plans to build th
[16:54] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, Name a distro that is using it, don't worry, I'll wait.
[16:54] <eagles0513875_> according to the same link
[16:54] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: good point
[16:55] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, Guess why no one is using it?
[16:55] <eagles0513875_> lack of development or interest in it
[16:55] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, There is plenty of that, actually
[16:56] <invariant> If any future X replacement, doesn't have the exact same features, I don't think it is going to be very popular.
[16:56] <invariant> I am thinking of availability like nested X, controlling the window manager from user-space, etc.
[16:56] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, It just isn't getting anywhere, because what they want to do is not good in the beginning... X11 is broken, why do we want to replace it with another IPC? We don't need graphics to be handled in userspace anymore, the kernel has KMS and GEM et al
[16:57] <johnjohn1011> my opinion with every single rewrite of a project from scratch is that it takes WAY longer to get every feature in.
[16:57] <invariant> Networking features, etc.
[16:57] <invariant> johnjohn1011, exactly.
[16:57] <lunitik> invariant, When was the last time you used networking functionality of Xorg? You probably use VNC or NX or RDP, all of which are duplicating effort
[16:57] <invariant> lunitik, a few weeks ago.
[16:58] <eagles0513875_> basically waht canonical are doing are trying to simplify things so to speak
[16:58] <lunitik> invariant, you used Xhost?
[16:58] <johnjohn1011> lunitik: agree. no one uses single app networking,  just rdp or vnc.
[16:58] <invariant> lunitik, no
[16:58] <murthy> kde on wayland can you tried with rebecca black os
[16:58] <lunitik> invariant, What did you use?
[16:58] <eagles0513875_> haha murthy
[16:58] <invariant> lunitik, I had to configure my ssh server to make it work.
[16:58] <eagles0513875_> johnjohn1011: even vnc sucks
[16:58] <invariant> lunitik, there is/was some bug in Ubuntu...
[16:59] <murthy> eagles0513875_: what?
[16:59] <invariant> Perhaps NX can be configured better, but I don't think it works well in its default configuration.
[16:59] <eagles0513875_> lol murthy your rebecca black reference
[16:59] <invariant> VNC is a mess.
[16:59] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, murthy is serious... it is a livecd using QtWayland and the KWin branch with Wayland support
[16:59] <murthy> eagles0513875_:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/rebeccablackos/
[16:59] <invariant> lunitik, I am not for duplication of effort.
[17:00] <eagles0513875_> oh
[17:00] <eagles0513875_> i didnt even know that lol
[17:00] <invariant> lunitik, all I am saying is that there is for a lot of things no reason to break compatibility.
[17:00] <lunitik> invariant, Mir will be tiny, Wayland does a lot of things that aren't necessary.
[17:00] <eagles0513875_> and here i am as nutty as i am wanting to roll my own distro
[17:00] <johnjohn1011> obviously canonical thinks mir will progress faster then wayland.
[17:01] <lunitik> invariant, Compatibility will be broken with Wayland or Mir, why not have two competing answers and see which one is better when they're delivered?
[17:01] <invariant> lunitik, I think generally using Qt is not a bad idea.
[17:01] <invariant> lunitik, but it's kind of terrible that in Qt you cannot represent a file consisting of an illegal encoding.
[17:02] <lunitik> invariant, I think it is awesome, I'm not sure about a display server using C++ though... but I guess Canonical has a lot of C++ talent
[17:02] <invariant> lunitik, I think that's quite unforgivable.
[17:02] <invariant> lunitik, C++ is a bad idea for a new project.
[17:02] <lunitik> invariant, Yes you can... KDE uses the same media framework as Gnome, Gstreamer is responsible for codecs on both.
[17:02] <invariant> lunitik, dolphin doesn't do it and not any KDE application does it.
[17:03] <invariant> lunitik, it's a WONTFIX bug.
[17:03] <invariant> lunitik, it pisses every KDE user off.
[17:03] <murthy> Mir was taken for two purposes, one is for a seemless cross formfactor usage and other is to have a greater control over the code, which for the same reason they had to create unity
[17:03] <lunitik> invariant, yes they do... install kubuntu-restricted-extras ... gives same functionality as ubuntu-restricted-extras, which is how they're working on Ubuntu
[17:03] <eagles0513875_> this is out of my realm
[17:03] <invariant> lunitik, they do?
[17:03] <lunitik> invariant, yeah
[17:03] <invariant> lunitik, then the bug should be marked fixed.
[17:04] <invariant> lunitik, unless you are not reading what I said.
[17:04] <eagles0513875_> lunitik: ubuntu restricted and kubuntu had somethings which were each either kde specific or unity specific
[17:04] <lunitik> invariant, It is WONTFIX because they're not going to put it in the default packaging... it can't go in Main, it is in Multiverse
[17:04] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, If they weren't specific, there wouldn't be two packages
[17:05] <eagles0513875_> ok
[17:05] <lunitik> invariant, Exactly the same on the Ubuntu side though, its just Ubuntu has a checkbox in the installer to install them from Multiverse, so they just work.
[17:05] <johnjohn1011> so i guess relationship with ubuntu and gnome has also soured somewhat.
[17:06] <lunitik> johnjohn1011, lol, "somewhat"
[17:06] <eagles0513875_> has unity improved at all in terms of performance on netbooks cuz on my netbook i found it way to clunky
[17:06] <lunitik> johnjohn1011, There is basically no relationship between Canonical and Gnome
[17:06] <lunitik> eagles0513875_, Unity isn't designed for netbooks
[17:07] <eagles0513875_> neither is the kde netbook version
[17:07] <eagles0513875_> taht too is clunkky
[17:07] <eagles0513875_> i switched my netbook back to the standard desktop layout and that thing performs the way it should if not better
[17:08] <lunitik> Anyway, in my opinion, I don't think people will care much what is under the hood if Canonical deliver on the designs they've put out there.
[17:09] <eagles0513875_> ya was lookin at them its goign to be interesting
[17:10] <eagles0513875_> time to do some serious apache testing
[17:12] <johnjohn1011> lunitik: wondering what video card will be the best supported on the desktop first..
[17:30] <geomyidae> kde-workspace-bin seems to have removed /usr/bin/krandrstartup but /usr/bin/startkde relies on it.
[17:31] <geomyidae> Is this because I got a partial proposed update or something?
[17:31] <geomyidae> Or is this a bug?
[17:31] <s9iper1> i am using 13.04 with 3.9.0 kernel i am not be able to mount the cd or dvd
[17:32] <s9iper1> any body helps
[17:38] <SuperLag> Did the 3.9 kernel get added to 13.04?
[17:39] <geomyidae> no(t yet)
[17:42] <s9iper1> SuperLag: yes
[17:45]  * geomyidae doesn't have it :(
[17:46] <geomyidae> s9iper1: you sure you didn't install it manually?
[17:48] <s9iper1> geomyidae : i installed it manually  by downloading it and than running commands in the terminal
[17:48] <SuperLag> yeah... I don't think 3.9 is bundled with 13.04, as 3.9 is still in RC status
[17:49] <geomyidae> indeed, only like rc1 unless I missed something in the last day or two no less.
[17:49] <SuperLag> rc2, as of this morning
[17:49] <geomyidae> plus the 3.8 kernel is still broken for many people unless you're in proposed and got the -12 version
[17:49] <s9iper1> SuperLag: i have installed it bec my wifi was distrubing me  is there any way that i can get back to the original kernel ?
[17:49] <geomyidae> s9iper1: you can purge the 3.9 or just choose the older kernel in grub
[17:50] <SuperLag> I had MAJOR issues with 3.8.0-10. Constant kernel panics.
[17:50] <SuperLag> I ended up rolling back to 12.10 as a result :(
[17:50] <geomyidae> ouch
[17:50] <s9iper1> geomyidae ?  my internet speed is also slow down kindly suggest me a stable version
[17:50]  * BluesKaj wonders why ppl are so anxious to get the newest semi-tested kernel on their systems
[17:51] <s9iper1> geomyidae: how any
[17:51] <s9iper1> how
[17:51] <s9iper1> any wiki page
[17:51] <SuperLag> BluesKaj: agreed
[17:51] <s9iper1> i dont understand how to chose it from grub ?
[17:51] <geomyidae> s9iper1: reboot, press Esc at the grub screen, choose "Additional options" and then pick the last working kernel for you?
[17:51] <s9iper1> okm thanks
[17:51] <geomyidae> s9iper1: or just `sudo apt-get remove linux-image-3.9.0-whatever, etc` the opposite of however you installed it
[17:51] <s9iper1> so much
[17:52] <s9iper1> thanks
[17:59] <maveas_> After a few upgrades on 13.04 Unity - or something else? - starts failing. During successfull login (correct password) I'm been logged out of my desktop session and directed to the login screen again. Any ideas what might be wrong? (Noticed some error with gconf and dbus but I'm not that into those things)
[18:02] <trism> maveas_: log into one of the vts (ctrl+alt+f1) and check the permissions on ~/.Xauthority , make sure it isn't root, and if so delete it then try to log in again
[18:02] <mandoguit> maveas_:    video driver or kernel update problem maybe?  hold down shift key to access grub boot menu while booting and try selecting previous kernel or recovery mode
[18:03] <maveas_> Previous kernels doesn't do the trick so I'll try with the permissions on Xauth.. :)
[18:15] <s9iper1> geomyidae : i have used this way to install it  so now how can i get back cd ~/Downloads than  sudo dpkg -i linux-image-*
[19:08] <Darmok__> and jalad at tanagra
[22:21] <MoPac> I hate to do an !anyone here, but I've run out of ideas for diagnosing at my own end.  Does anyone have edge flipping on the desktop wall working with Raring?
[22:56] <Kurdistan> Hi will 13.04 become rolling release or will it be released has normal?
[22:57] <bekks> Kurdistan: Ubuntu will not become rolling release.
[22:59] <Kurdistan> bekks, is that final dec.? so 13.04 will be supported for 18 month? is it possible that 12.04.* will get the unity improvement?
[22:59] <bekks> Kurdistan: It is a final decision since the first ubuntu release
[22:59] <bekks> Kurdistan: 13.04 will be supported for 18 months.
[23:00] <lunitik> Kurdistan, It will probably get to 12.04.* as a PPA if nothing else
[23:01] <lunitik> bekks, They are discussing changing that, I really think they're going to go with rolling+quicker releases (monthly it seems)
[23:01] <Kurdistan> lunitik, really liking 12.04.2 and I have read a lot of good stuff about 13.04 (snappier, performance improvement etc unity-related I am interesting).
[23:02] <lunitik> Then only actually supporting the LTS's
[23:02] <bekks> lunitik: I dont think that will get introduced in 13.04
[23:03] <lunitik> bekks, If not, it will be the last normal release, it really is probably too much work to be constantly supporting 5-6 releases at a time
[23:03] <Kurdistan> lunitik, yeah I read about rolling release+quicker releases for developers etc and only supporting LTS. Thats means without backporting Unity improvment we will be stuck with 2 years old improvment.
[23:04] <lunitik> Kurdistan, I mean, we're in Ubuntu+1 atm, so I think people in this room won't be stuck at all... and the people who are stuck probably shouldn't be using anything but LTS anyway.
[23:05] <Kurdistan> lunitik, sorry and you are right. better place for me to get my answers etc?
[23:05] <lunitik> If you're using Ubuntu in a mission critical situation, or you can't figure out how to upgrade manually, you probably don't care that much about what is new.
[23:06] <lunitik> Kurdistan, This is as good as anywhere since the ops don't seem to mind that this is sort of ot... #ubuntu-offtopic is the right place, but I don't that'll go well
[23:06] <Kurdistan> lunitik, :) I like snappier och performance improved unity (like the shell).
[23:06] <lunitik> don't think that'll*
[23:07] <lunitik> Kurdistan, But that will be on the initial release of Touch, you can't install it right now on your desktop
[23:08] <lunitik> Kurdistan, Right now, what you're seeing is based on Android drivers and display server...
[23:17] <MoPac> Has anybody here seen the custom keyboard shortcuts amnesia problem actually resolved for them with raring?  I have the latest compiz daily and still can't bind anything that will last beyond a reboot
[23:50] <geomyidae> I've seen a lot of people reporting a lot of problems with compiz+amnesia
[23:50] <geomyidae> Frankly, I'm shocked that compiz would misbehave. shocked.