[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> G4rd3nH0
[07:58] <redtape-renegade> TheOpenSourcere1, Morning.. Hows the maping project going that you blogged about last month (pos. Jan.) ??
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcere1> redtape-renegade: Morning. It's out and running :-) http://forge.vtiger.com/projects/geotools/
[07:59] <redtape-renegade> opening .. glad to see it shine ..
[08:00] <TheOpenSourcere1> Have fixed a few bugs - made a major improvement in the way it all works and have received 4 translations.
[08:04] <Knightwise> TheOpenSourcere1: did you by any chance blurt out a password there ?
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcere1> nope. not me.
[08:04] <Knightwise> G4rd3nH0
[08:05] <Knightwise> < TheOpenSourcerer> G4rd3nH0
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcere1> Hmm - odd.
[08:16] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcere1: from your same IP too
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcere1> Gosh  - really. Must have been my twin brother then
[08:17] <ali1234> a likely story
[08:47] <ali1234> wow, i just found 3 BTC on an exchange account i totally forgot about
[08:51] <TheOpenSourcere1> How do I disable some of the stupid & really annoying "automatically make my window full height even though I don't want it to be" stuff in Unity?
[08:54] <ali1234> can you be more specific?
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcere1> no
[08:54] <ali1234> do you mean grid plugin?
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcere1> do i?
[08:54] <ali1234> i don't know
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcere1> neither do i
[08:55] <TheOpenSourcere1> I just know that its bloody annoying when I drag a window around and all of a sudden it goes full height
[08:56] <ali1234> on half the screen?
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcere1> This is more like at the top
[08:56] <ali1234> sounds like grid plugin
[08:56] <popey> yeah, it is
[08:56] <jacobw> Morning
[08:56] <popey> just disable it in ccsm
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcere1> Ah ccsm.
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcere1> and it is called what?
[08:56] <ali1234> ...grid plugin
[08:57] <popey> just search for grid in the top left of ccsm
[08:57] <ali1234> under window management
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcere1> Ta.
[08:57] <ali1234> i just realised i'm not even using compiz right now
[08:58] <ali1234> "extended KDE testing"
[08:58] <ali1234> it's been a couple of days and i haven't ragequit yet, so it is clearly improving
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcere1> hoorah - thanks that's worked.
[09:09] <redtape-renegade> Did anyone see if the 2 part tv thingy called Shetland was any good last night ? Is it wort turning in tonight @ 9pm ?
[09:13] <directhex> is it about ponies?
[09:14] <redtape-renegade> directhex, I think it's about some investigation by a bobby in Shetland  .. something about 'remains' ..
[09:14] <directhex> so not an hour long version of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekr05T9Iaio ?
[09:14] <directhex> because i'd watch that
[09:15] <redtape-renegade> opening..
[09:18] <redtape-renegade> directhex, Haha .. that's a proper Morn. Meme to laugh at .. Ghehe.
[09:20] <redtape-renegade> Apparently to cold wind in the air, is a direct draft from Siberia by all acounts.
[09:49] <JamesTait> Happy Moshoeshoe Day, everyone! :-D
[10:01] <mungbean> ali1234: have you been able to prettify kde? screenshot?
[10:03] <ali1234> mungbean: not really, no, but it is reasonable
[10:04] <ali1234> i'm not using any KDE applications for a start, that really helps
[10:07] <mungbean> even the systray is ugly though
[10:07] <popey> but amarok is the best media player there is!
[10:07] <mungbean> 1.4 was popey :D
[10:07] <popey> lies
[10:07] <popey> winamp was
[10:07] <mungbean> clementine is now the best
[10:07] <popey> before AOL took over
[10:08] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/249829
[10:08] <ali1234> i removed the system tray entirely
[10:08] <mgdm> I did like how I could make a recent Winamp look somewhat like it did in 2000
[10:08] <mgdm> Oh, and now I've been reminded of XMMS
[10:08] <ali1234> gave up trying to fix it
[10:08] <popey> \o/ crud
[10:09] <ali1234> i don't actually miss the systray at all, weirdly enough
[10:09] <mungbean> what are you using instead?
[10:09] <ali1234> nothing
[10:09] <Laney> gruh
[10:09] <Laney> the snow is really coming down now
[10:09] <ali1234> turns out i don't actually need to look at network manager icon all the time
[10:09] <ali1234> oh wow so it is
[10:10] <diplo> Looks nice ali1234
[10:11] <ali1234> KDE doesn't understand the idea of monochrome icons
[10:11] <ali1234> ONE colour + transparent pixels
[10:12] <mungbean> ali1234: whats that along the bottom though? i still see the cashew
[10:12] <ali1234> bottom left: shortcut icons for common used apps so i never have to suffer the pain of KDE's start menu
[10:12] <ali1234> then task bar
[10:12] <ali1234> then the desktop pager
[10:12] <ali1234> then the clock
[10:13] <ali1234> and the cashew... cannot ever be removed
[10:13] <mungbean> dolphin still looks ugly and incongruous
[10:13] <ali1234> lol now it's sunny... and snowing at the same time
[10:13] <mungbean> "stealth cashew?"
[10:13] <mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/questions/24867/how-do-i-remove-the-kde-4-plasma-tool-box-cashew-icon-from-the-desktop
[10:13] <ali1234> clicking that opens the panel config
[10:13] <ali1234> unless you mean the thing in top right
[10:14] <ali1234> i don't even know what that is supposed to do
[10:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:14] <mungbean> was an avid kde user , they lost me when they ripped out the guts of every app
[10:15] <ali1234> and yeah dolphin looks bad because there are no good themes that work with gtk and qt
[10:15] <mungbean> too much habit of ripping everything up and starting again, never finishing
[10:15] <ali1234> if you want KDE and gtk to match you have to use oxygen... and that just makes everything look equally awful
[10:16] <diplo> Anyone use Cisco Unified Commication Manager in here ?
[10:17] <diplo> CUCM
[10:17] <ali1234> plasma theme is called "vintage" btw
[10:17] <ali1234> and window decorations are called "chrome" - i think it's a copy of google chrome?
[10:17] <popey> i thought all the bits around the window were called chrome
[10:18] <popey> they've certainly been called chrome in firefox for years
[10:18] <popey> (unless my sarcasm detector is broken)
[10:18] <ali1234> no the theme
[10:21] <ali1234> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Chrome+Grayscale+Aurorae?content=119168
[10:21] <redtape-renegade> Hurray for the Commonwealth charter http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/queen-to-sign-new-charter-backing-equal-rights-for-gay-people-across-commonwealth-8528587.html  :: Shout out to all those manscaping today !!
[10:21] <mungbean> redtape-renegade: dude. how offtopic can you get?
[10:21] <ali1234> and technically chrome in firefox sense means the address bar and menus and stuff
[10:21] <redtape-renegade> sorry wrong channel. sorry.
[10:22] <ali1234> everything inside the window that isn't the html page
[10:23] <Laney> we have a topic?
[10:25] <popey> < mungbean> i hear the pope is resigning
[10:25] <popey> ahem ☺
[10:26] <mungbean> well he does frequent this channel
[10:28] <jpds> popey: "amen"?
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcere1> ty for the rt popey
[10:31] <popey> np
[10:42] <TheOpenSourcere1> ty for the rt czajkowski (What happened to the paddies on Saturday then? Thought you had that one in the bag?)
[10:49] <czajkowski> me too :(
[10:51] <brobostigon> douglas adam's birthday, :), all hail genius.
[11:07] <redtape-renegade> ACTION: Topic needs to be changed, I suggest 'the convergence' strategy as a possible lay-topic to get people talking.
[11:07] <redtape-renegade> popey: just sayin'
[11:09] <andrewebdev> I wish there was Omnigraffe level of software on Linux :(
[11:10] <andrewebdev> I'm finding myself jumping between multiple different apps in an attempt to build interactive wireframes
[11:10] <mungbean> got my first pack of sugru - the ultimate modders tool \o/
[11:11] <redtape-renegade> AMD heatsink CPU bracket hasn't arrived today [on top postal price avail./ bought on Friday 'noon] .. Amazon cost me poss. £900 for that. Guriers 'these sellers' are to me.
[11:14]  * redtape-renegade heads for the bus-stop for coffee Rep. solace
[11:14] <popey> !away
[11:14] <popey> ☺
[11:15] <redtape-AFK> oh thanx.
[11:17] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:24] <kvarley> What do you think of the piston specs?
[11:24] <kvarley> http://rootgamer.com/news/xi3-accepting-preorders-steampiston
[11:26] <ali1234> it's not something i would buy
[11:26] <ali1234> hopefully it encourages ATI to improve their drivers?
[11:28] <kvarley> ali1234: Seems expensive
[11:29] <directhex> the piston is not being shipped by valve. don't take its price as meaning anything. there is no economy of scale in xi3's component pricing.
[11:29] <ali1234> yeah $1000 is too much for a games console
[11:29] <ali1234> though for a real HTCP, maybe it's not bad
[11:30] <ali1234> *HTPC
[11:31] <ali1234> i don't really like minipcs though. they tend to melt
[11:31] <ali1234> and then there's zero chance to repair them because none standard parts
[11:31] <ali1234> so yeah, i would not buy this
[11:32] <kvarley> Any ideas how I can tell what thickness 2.5" drive I need to buy for a laptop without opening the laptop?
[11:32] <kvarley> Acer Aspire 5920
[11:32] <kvarley> Old thing, quite thick so I think it'll just be the standard 2.5" size and not the 7mm thick one
[11:32] <directhex> kvarley, it's *probably* 9.5mm, but no, no way to tell
[11:32] <directhex> unless you pull the specs on the factory-shipped drive
[11:33] <kvarley> Ah, the laptop is on Crucial
[11:33] <kvarley> So I'll just use their search tool :)
[11:33] <kvarley> Thanks directhex
[11:33] <directhex> the piston cpu is a A10-4600M
[11:33] <Laney> Someone who knows about DIY look at these pictures and tell me if you think it looks like damp to you please: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/damp/
[11:34] <Laney> The dark/discoloured patches feel wet and those weird drips started appearing in the last couple of days
[11:34] <ali1234> condensation or a leak
[11:34] <ali1234> also the streaks on the wall
[11:34] <kvarley> directhex:  Should be pretty easy to keep cool then
[11:35] <popey> kvarley: I'd just run "smartctl" and get the model number of the drive
[11:35] <directhex> 35W component
[11:36] <directhex> looks like $100 a processor in bulk. give or take.
[11:36] <kvarley> popey: Thanks
[11:36] <kvarley> directhex: I've seen the model up from that chip running fanless
[11:36] <kvarley> Much higher TDP
[11:36] <ali1234> Laney: is that in multiple rooms?
[11:37] <ali1234> you seem to have a lot of condensation on your windows too
[11:38] <kvarley> popey: That is a LOT of info about one drive 0.o
[11:43] <kvarley> Any ideas where I can find out how much RAM a laptop can take? I can't see any mention of it in the manual
[11:44] <popey> what cpu is it?
[11:45] <kvarley> One sec
[11:45] <kvarley> popey: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7300  @ 2.00GHz
[11:45] <kvarley> Acer Aspire 5920
[11:45] <popey> http://ark.intel.com/products/29760/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-T7300-4M-Cache-2_00-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
[11:45] <popey> hmm
[11:46] <popey> how many slots does it have?
[11:46] <mgdm> kvarley: I quite often just use crucial.com/uk for that
[11:46] <popey> sudo dmidecode
[11:46] <mgdm> whether or not I buy the RAM there
[11:46] <AlanBell> Laney: it isn't rising damp (that comes up) it is a leaky roof or gutter
[11:46] <kvarley> popey: 2 slots
[11:46] <popey> i do usually too, but had an instance where crucial was wrong
[11:46] <AlanBell> Laney: or pipe
[11:46] <kvarley> mgdm: It recommends 2x 2GB sticks
[11:47] <Laney> AlanBell: yeah I suspected as much
[11:47] <Laney> both of those rooms are on the same side and there's no problem like that on the other
[11:48] <kvarley> popey: Some forum threads say you can but it will only address 6.75 GB of it
[11:48] <kvarley> popey: That you can put 2x 4GB sticks in
[11:48] <kvarley> popey: Chipset spec says 4GB is the max memory size supported
[11:50] <kvarley> I'll just go with 4GB
[11:50] <kvarley> They're getting an SSD and twice the RAM so it's not a bad deal
[11:52] <popey> should fly
[11:52] <popey> what's it running?
[11:55] <czajkowski> xnox: enjoy saturday ?
[11:56] <kvarley> popey: xubuntu
[11:56] <popey> nice
[11:57] <kvarley> popey: It's my Dad's laptop, he's used to the GNOME2 layout still otherwise he'd be on Unity :)
[11:57] <popey> xubuntu should fly on that
[11:57] <xnox> czajkowski: i should have had a better prepared talk, as it seems like there was demand even for the simple things I do day-to-day.
[11:57] <xnox> czajkowski: more coca-cola and more sprite needed.
[11:57] <kvarley> popey: Hopefully, this is a follow up to my questions the other day about the faulty partition on a hard drive.
[11:57] <czajkowski> xnox: working on sorting out a date for the next one
[11:58] <xnox> czajkowski: house mates ate all sandwiches without leaving a single one for me.
[11:58] <xnox> czajkowski: overall it was good.
[11:58] <czajkowski> xnox: aye that was the only complaint I got the lack of drink availability lke tea/coffee but we did have water and there was a tesco around the corner. We did have loads of foods :)
[11:58] <xnox> czajkowski: do you need any donations for budget / to run the event?
[11:58] <czajkowski> having 9 talks that just appeared on the day ws amazing
[11:58] <czajkowski> xnox: we had Basho sponsor the foods this time
[11:59] <czajkowski> I kinda dont want to get into the area of accepting donations as then  it actually becomes more work with banks and declaring monies
[11:59] <czajkowski> we had 32 people there which was good for the first ever event
[11:59] <xnox> czajkowski: did i miss a Riak talk then?
[12:00]  * xnox wants to learn more about riak
[12:00] <czajkowski> nope thye just kindly sponsored but no talk
[12:00] <czajkowski> hopefully the next time
[12:03] <czajkowski> xnox: thanks for coming though :)
[12:04]  * xnox ponders to take a short university course at City University London
[12:05] <czajkowski> on ?
[12:06] <xnox> http://www.city.ac.uk/courses/short-courses/object-oriented-programming-using-c.html
[12:06] <xnox> C++
[12:06] <czajkowski> oh god
[12:06] <czajkowski> I'm having flash backs to that module
[12:07] <xnox> Maybe you can be my mentor \o/
[12:07] <kvarley> Does /proc/meminfo tell you how much RAM is in each slot?
[12:07] <czajkowski> used to have to do OO C++ in 2nd year and then deal with multi choice negative marking
[12:07] <czajkowski> xnox: eh no
[12:07] <czajkowski> I loath it
[12:08] <xnox> Well, in uni I did crazy concurrency programming with VHDL, Verilog and programming FPGAs, as well as OS-level programming in C for a DOS like chip. But none of this crazy OO in C++.
[12:09] <mgdm> I'd probably rather the VHDL etc
[12:09] <mgdm> C++ is hideous
[12:10] <davmor2> xnox: the men in white coats are aware of your location if you could just stay there, they have one of those nice jackets that fastens at the back
[12:10]  * xnox *jackets* \o/
[12:38] <kvarley> How can I download a file via terminal when there isn't a direct link to the file? For example I'm presented with example.com/some/path/file/-/view/28485727/
[12:40] <kvarley> Turns out wget managed it with the -O flag
[12:57] <amayer> kvarley: i was going to say wget has an option for follow links or something like that
[13:24] <kvarley> Reliable, secure, IMAP email server package for Ubuntu Server 12.04 ?
[13:24] <mgdm> Dovecot
[13:24] <directhex> kvarley, dovecot?
[13:24] <kvarley> mgdm directhex: Easy to configure? Web UI?
[13:25] <mgdm> No web UI, but it's pretty simple to set up
[13:25] <kvarley> mgdm: Ok, ty :)
[13:25] <kvarley> Hurray for the help.ubuntu.com pages
[13:25] <directhex> generally the web ui for imap servers is a separate thing
[13:25] <directhex> there are many choices
[13:26] <directhex> we just rolled out sogo
[13:26] <kvarley> directhex:  Ok, thanks I'll check it out
[13:39] <Azelphur> I think when health and safety inspectors come to visit me on Wednesday they are gonna have a field day, https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo537hl9dvqcsg7/2013-03-11%2013.30.13.mp4 xD
[13:46] <czajkowski> jelmer: \o/
[13:46] <directhex> apparently Azelphur lives in post-zombie-apocalypse england
[13:46] <Azelphur> indeed
[13:47] <directhex> i suggest you get a cricket bat ASAP
[13:47] <Azelphur> XD
[13:47] <directhex> braaaaaaaains
[13:47] <Azelphur> It's amusing because the landlord knows I'm taking legal action and getting inspectors round
[13:47] <Azelphur> and he still leaves it :D
[13:49] <kvarley> Easiest way to make all future directories and files within /srv/* belong to the www-data group?
[13:50] <SuperMatt> you could set chmod g+s (I think)
[13:50] <directhex> yep
[13:50] <kvarley> What does g+s do?
[13:51] <directhex> sticky bit
[13:51] <directhex> as in "this permission persists to all children"
[13:51] <kvarley> g = ? s = ?
[13:51] <directhex> g for group
[13:51] <SuperMatt> it means that anything created under that directory keeps the same group
[13:51] <directhex> s for sticky
[13:51] <kvarley> Ok
[13:51] <kvarley> Is it recursive?
[13:51] <directhex> it's not retroactive.
[13:51] <SuperMatt> *should* be
[13:51] <SuperMatt> and what directhex said
[13:52] <directhex> i.e. you need to do it recursively once, and it'll work for future file/folder creation by itself
[13:52] <kvarley> So # "chown -R username:www-data . && chmod g+s www-data ." will do/
[13:52] <kvarley> *?
[13:53] <mungbean> Azelphur: did you move out of your parents?
[13:53] <Azelphur> mungbean: yea, been on my own for 4 months now
[13:53] <Azelphur> admittedly my first choice of landlord was...not a good one
[13:53] <mungbean> and you have junkie zombies in your garden?
[13:54] <Azelphur> haha
[13:54] <mungbean> zombies need beds too
[13:54] <SuperMatt> kvarley: not quite
[13:54] <Azelphur> true :P
[13:54] <SuperMatt> kvarley: you'll need to recurse the +s too
[13:54] <mungbean> Azelphur: you working?
[13:54] <SuperMatt> otherwise if you create something under a dir that already exists, it won't pick up the permissions
[13:54] <Azelphur> not yet, but probably soon
[13:54] <mungbean> you could do a deal with teh landlord that you will clear the garbage for a price
[13:55] <Azelphur> mungbean: problem is it's not just the garbage, there's a long list of around 30 things
[13:55] <mungbean> looks nasty
[13:55] <Azelphur> is nasty \o/
[13:55] <directhex> kvarley, chmod -R
[13:55] <directhex> er, wait
[13:55] <directhex> chmod -R g+s .
[13:56] <directhex> chmod doesn't deal in usernames or groups, just permissions
[13:59] <kvarley> directhex: ah ok, ty
[13:59] <kvarley> Done that and now it shows the right group
[13:59] <kvarley> But I can't write to the directory from my user account
[13:59] <kvarley> I added myself to the www-data group
[13:59] <SuperMatt> you may need to log out of your shell and back in again
[14:00] <SuperMatt> group permissions are not instant
[14:00] <kvarley> SuperMatt: I was logged in via SSH, I did that
[14:00] <SuperMatt> they only apply on a new log in
[14:00] <SuperMatt> type groups at the command line to see what group you're in
[14:00] <directhex> you set g+s, did you also set g+w (group write)?
[14:00] <dwatkins> what does "id" say?
[14:00] <mungbean> what's the best tool for downloading photos from a camera?
[14:00] <kvarley> dwatkins: that i'm in www-data
[14:00] <kvarley> directhex: Ah
[14:00] <mungbean> i.e a single purpose tool
[14:00] <mungbean> tried rapid photo downloader but it doesn't work
[14:01] <kvarley> directhex: you were right :) thanks
[14:10] <ahayzen> czajkowski, AlanBell, xnox and anyone else who attended hackntalk on Saturday. Thanks for creating such an enjoyable event, see you at the next one :)
[14:14] <xnox> ... and jelmer =)
[14:14] <ahayzen> :)
[14:17]  * Laney points a big heater outside to speed up the arrival of spring
[14:25] <kvarley> Is there a service that will act kind of like dropbox and detect changes in a directory and then sync them to an external hard drive?
[14:27] <SuperMatt> well
[14:27] <SuperMatt> you could use deja-dup
[14:27] <SuperMatt> but that's not on a per-change basis
[14:28] <kvarley> SuperMatt: I think I'll use that daily and also install seafile for documents only
[14:28] <kvarley> SuperMatt: Will deja-dup check to see if a file is newer or will it just copy all regardless?
[14:29] <SuperMatt> rsync might be more what you want
[14:29] <SuperMatt> deja dup does lots of compression and stuff
[14:29] <kvarley> Is there a good GUI available for rsync?
[14:29] <SuperMatt> I don't know
[14:30] <kvarley> ok, ty
[14:30] <SuperMatt> have a look in the software center for rsync
[14:30] <SuperMatt> I'm seeing that Unison might be good
[14:31] <mgdm> kvarley: http://git-annex.branchable.com/assistant/ ?
[14:31] <SuperMatt> fact is, there are loads of ways you can do this kind of thing
[14:31] <SuperMatt> personally, I use rsync because I just put in the commanad I want, create a cron job, and forget all about it
[14:31] <kvarley> SuperMatt: Unison looks like what I want
[14:32] <kvarley> SuperMatt: Hard to tell, it's not for me so I'm having trouble deciding
[14:32] <kvarley> Unison will be more I/O intensive than a cronjob
[14:33] <directhex> unison /o\
[14:34] <SuperMatt> kvarley: what you should do is research deja dup, rsync, unison, and other tools, in an offline environment and see which one you feel more confortable with
[14:34] <kvarley> directhex: Why /0\ hehe
[14:34] <directhex> unison is fine as long as you don't want history, don't mind accidentally squashing changes, and don't want access from more than one distro
[14:34] <SuperMatt> I have wasted a lot of time in the past working hard to get one method to work, when I could have used a different tool to do it easily
[14:34] <directhex> the latter two are major issues for multi-user repos
[14:35] <kvarley> It's for my parents
[14:35] <diplo> rsync tbh
[14:35] <diplo> :)
[14:35] <kvarley> Ok :)
[14:35] <SuperMatt> learn rsync, it'll change your life
[14:35] <kvarley> Does rsync hash check? Or does it just copy everything?
[14:36] <SuperMatt> it can do whatever you want it to do ;)
[14:36] <SuperMatt> you can do things by time
[14:36] <SuperMatt> you can do things by md5sum
[14:36] <kvarley> SuperMatt: Ok I'm sold :D
[14:37] <SuperMatt> you can tell it never to overwrite a file, instead putting it into a backup folder
[14:37] <SuperMatt> which is what I do
[14:37] <SuperMatt> but *LEARN* it first
[14:37] <kvarley> Does it log when it completes a backup?
[14:37] <SuperMatt> I'm not so sure about that
[14:37] <SuperMatt> you could probably script something to do it
[14:39] <kvarley> SuperMatt: This grsync GUI is pretty good
[14:39] <SuperMatt> cool
[14:39] <kvarley> Shows all the CLI flags it uses too :)
[14:40] <SuperMatt> but I really suggest learning how the command line works
[14:40] <kvarley> SuperMatt: OK :)
[14:40] <SuperMatt> because it'll make a lot of your every day tasks a lot easier
[14:45] <BigRedS> learn rsync? isn't that a bit like learning sendmail?
[14:45] <BigRedS> just learn how to do whatever it is you wanbt to do with rsync, and assume it's also able to do almost everything else
[14:49] <mungbean> do bricks and mortar stores like currys do price match against amazon?
[14:49] <zleap> dunno
[14:50] <Laney> doubt it
[14:50] <zleap> thing is amazon sell stuff through other vendoes
[14:50] <zleap> vendors
[14:50] <mungbean> want a dvd player but some compalints on amazon that its noisy
[14:51] <popey> john lewis do i believe
[14:51] <directhex> richer sounds do.
[14:51] <directhex> and i think john lewis
[14:51] <directhex> check their websites
[14:51] <mungbean> all a bit far away
[14:51] <mungbean> wanted to walk in and try
[14:52] <mungbean> i can walk in and then buy on amazon later i suppose
[14:52] <Laney> phone
[14:52] <mungbean> if a dvd player is hdmi only, how do i plug it into my crt telly with scart only?
[14:52] <directhex> you don't.
[14:53] <davmor2> mungbean: most appliances in store won't be plugged in anyway
[14:53] <mungbean> oh
[14:53] <popey> but a new telly
[14:53] <popey> *buy
[14:53] <mungbean> have a new baby on thursday
[14:53] <directhex> the lower-end dvd players will probably do scart
[14:53] <mungbean> £££ -> nappies --> poo
[14:53] <directhex> not like video quality matters with scart, you won't be losing much by getting a bad player
[14:53] <mungbean> directhex: yes, the one i want is scart only but has usb in , so a bonus
[14:53] <mungbean> except if its noisy
[14:54] <mungbean> or breaks easily like my philips dvd writer
[14:54] <mungbean> v disappointed with that
[14:55] <zleap> scart is terrible sometimes,   i have a rgb lead thing now much better connections
[14:58] <directhex> 21 pins in a connector with no real grip? that's a tough job
[14:59] <directhex> personally i'm glad of HDMI
[14:59] <mgdm> SCART is the PHP of electrical connectors
[14:59] <czajkowski> ahayzen: glad you enjoyed it, there will be another one in a few months
[15:01] <mungbean> i will probably only change telly when my crt blows up
[15:03] <directhex> a new TV was one of the first things we bought when my wife and i moved in together
[15:03] <directhex> her parents had given us an old CRT, but the remote was lost, and there was no way to get a universal remote to send the "scart now plz" signal to it
[15:03] <directhex> making it useless for games, and therefore for everything
[15:04] <ali1234> that happened to a friend of mine
[15:04] <directhex> £650 we spent on a 26" samsung 1366x768 lcd
[15:04] <ali1234> spent ages trying to figure out the remote codes
[15:04] <ali1234> ended up putting a laptop in front of the tv and watching movies on that
[15:06] <mungbean> lcd tellys are quite cheap now
[15:06] <mungbean> but i generally have a make do and mend attitude
[15:07] <mungbean> and as soon as you upgrade your telly then all your SD stuff looks poor
[15:07] <ali1234> cheap LCDs probably aren't as good as your CRT though, if it's a decent one
[15:07] <directhex> i have a spidey sense for failing technology
[15:07] <ali1234> not that i consider £650 to be cheap
[15:07] <mungbean> yes, it's that silver panasonic/sony jobby
[15:07] <mungbean> thinking 300£ for a 32 inch lcd
[15:07] <directhex> every time i tell myself "nah, you're being paranoid, it'll be fine", it blows up within the week
[15:08] <ali1234> a cheap LCD definitely will make SD content look worse, especially if it's interlaced
[15:08] <directhex> i should trust my gut more. it's never wrong on this stuff
[15:08] <ali1234> a good one though... will make it look far better
[15:09] <directhex> upgraded to a new tv at xmas 2011
[15:09] <directhex> previous one made it, what, 5 years?
[15:09] <directhex> that's a reasonable time to keep an lcd without needing to worry about backlight replacment
[15:11] <popey> ffs. i have called the LG repair centre twice now to pay to get my Nexus 4 repaired, "We'll call you back to take credit card details. can't take them now, data protection issue"
[15:11] <popey> what the actual f
[15:11] <popey> (they haven't called back)
[15:12] <directhex> popey, pathetic :/
[15:12] <directhex> go go lucky goldstar!
[15:12] <popey> seriously not buying google hardware again
[15:13] <czajkowski> :/
[15:13] <czajkowski> that is bad
[15:13] <directhex> popey, if you buy a google phone from google, imho google should be the ones providing support. if they can't manage that, they shouldn't be selling hardware
[15:14] <popey> its not even LG who provide the support, it's a 3rd (4th?) party
[15:14] <directhex> popey, does beg the question what would happen if you paid £450 for an lg optimus g, not a google nexus 4, from a support standpoint
[15:15] <popey> i suspect the same
[15:15] <directhex> indeed
[15:15] <popey> without the awful phone call with google up front
[15:42] <ali1234> anyone want to take bets on which company has one letter in common with "intel" and is interested in wayland?
[15:42] <ali1234> i can only think of 4 and it's almost certainly not 3 of them
[15:43] <directhex> ali1234, i suspect i can't answer that question.
[15:44] <mungbean> ali1234: whats the source of the riddle?
[15:44] <ali1234> oh i'm certain you can't
[15:45] <popey> samsung?
[15:45] <ali1234> that's one of the 3 i don't think it is :)
[15:45] <popey> heh
[15:46] <kvarley> Where is best to ask about SSL certificates for apache2 and a real domain?
[15:46] <popey> startssl are cheap i hear
[15:46] <kvarley> popey: startssl are free ;)
[15:46] <directhex> only in some cases
[15:46] <directhex> i've paid a couple of hundred dollars to startcom in the last week
[15:46] <kvarley> popey: But I have an issue where without the www works but with it doesn't
[15:49] <directhex> kvarley, "foobar.com" and "www.foobar.com" need different certificates, OR a single certificate specifying x509v3 alternative subject names for both
[15:51] <kvarley> directhex: Ok thanks
[15:51] <kvarley> directhex: What job do you have? You seem to know pretty much everything I ask lol
[15:51] <directhex> sysadmin
[15:53] <kvarley> directhex: Explains a lot :)
[15:53] <kvarley> Is example.com a FQDN or does it need the www ?
[15:54] <directhex> kvarley, for ssl? again, depends on what you want.
[15:55] <kvarley> directhex: Sorry this is for email
[15:55] <kvarley> Postfix specifically
[15:55] <kvarley> The example given is example.org so I should be ok
[15:56] <directhex> example.org is a fqdn in this context, assuming your mail server is the holder of the A/CNAME DNS entry for example.org, OR the MX DNS entry
[15:56] <directhex> typically you'd have a mail server with the MX entry, alongside a web server with the A entry
[15:57] <kvarley> So should I have actually put mail.mydomain.co.uk ?
[15:58] <directhex> which email addresses do you want to accept?
[15:58] <directhex> i mean, let's take an example. the dns zone file for collabora.co.uk includes
[15:58] <directhex>         IN      MX      5 mail.collabora.co.uk.
[15:58] <directhex> so the server mail.collabora.co.uk deals with all mail to collabora.co.uk
[15:59] <kvarley> I want to accept from someString@mydomain.co.uk
[15:59] <directhex> and in postfix config, mydomain = collabora.co.uk
[15:59] <mgdm> I have one certificate for mail.mgdm.net which covers SMTP, IMAP, HTTP and my Jabber server, FWIW
[15:59] <kvarley> Nice
[15:59] <kvarley> Is that a wildcard cert tho?
[15:59] <directhex> wildcard certs are dangerous
[15:59] <mgdm> Nope - just for mail.mgdm.net
[16:08] <ali1234> eh, so i probably need to sign the CLA
[16:09] <directhex> i probably signed the CLA once, in my yoof
[16:10] <directhex> for adding binding generators to various canonical libs
[16:10] <ali1234> i had to sign the android one the other day to send in a 1 line patch
[16:11] <ali1234> it was simpler to understand
[16:11] <directhex> i've never signed a CLA for mono
[16:11] <jelmer> directhex: mono requires a CLA these days?
[16:11] <directhex> jelmer, nope! hence never signing one :p
[16:11] <ali1234> no, i think that's the point
[16:12] <jelmer> directhex: hah, okay :)
[16:12] <directhex> jelmer, more accurately, the runtime needs copyright assignment or MIT-licensed patches, one or the other. they don't accept LGPL patches to the runtime
[16:12] <directhex> since they relicense the runtime as proprietary for use in we-hate-gpl environments like ios or consoles
[16:13] <ali1234> that's fair enough
[16:13] <jelmer> directhex: ah, interesting approach (offering MIT license as alternative to contributors who don't want to sign a CLA)
[16:14] <ali1234> the reason i don't like Canonical's is because it basically says "we can redistribute your code under any license we want, but you can only redistribute our code under the original license" - which is typically GPL3, at leas it is for the project i'm trying to contribute to
[16:14] <ali1234> this is actually the same as android, but android is permissive t start with, so i'm not getting the short end of the stick there
[16:15] <directhex> android is apache2 iirc?
[16:15] <ali1234> i think so, yes
[16:15] <directhex> microsoft's new favourite license! :p
[16:15] <ali1234> oh?
[16:15] <jelmer> directhex: what happened to MS_PL?
[16:16] <directhex> jelmer, fell out of fashion. thankfully. it was a poorly written license
[16:16] <directhex> ali1234, most open source releases from MS these days are under apache2
[16:17] <directhex> e.g. chunks of .net
[16:17] <ali1234> "chunks" lol
[16:17] <directhex> "chunks"!
[16:18] <directhex> i could make a list
[16:19] <ali1234> it's more amusing to me to imagine it as a bucket of random chunks of.. stuff that i'd rather not know what it is
[16:19] <davmor2> Yay the epic snow has finally hit us in wolvo
[16:20] <ali1234> like that stuff they throw in the sea to attract sharks :D
[16:21] <directhex> .net micro framework (embedded devices version of .net); asp.net mvc 1, 2, 3, 4; entity framework 6; dynamic language runtime; ironpython; ironruby; f#
[16:21] <directhex> probably more
[16:21] <ali1234> oh, ironpython... i do like that
[16:21] <ali1234> the only way to interface .net without going completely insane
[16:21] <directhex> the only chunk they haven't relicensed from Ms-PL is managed extensibility framework, microsoft's plugin architecture api
[16:28] <ali1234> directhex: are there any 3d game engines that are BSD-style licensed and work on windows, mac, linux, and android, and are actually good? or am i just wasting my time even looking?
[16:28] <ali1234> oh, and C++
[16:28] <directhex> ali1234, torque3d
[16:29] <ali1234> hmm i forgot that was open sourced recently wasn't it? nice one
[16:29] <directhex> or ogre?
[16:30] <ali1234> ogre is what i'm using now
[16:30] <ali1234> it's a 3d engine, but not a game engine... no sound, no input
[16:30] <ali1234> sound is killing me
[16:30] <ali1234> i do really like ogre for 3d though
[16:31] <ali1234> but i'm lazy and i would like to actually finish this game some time before i die, so looking for something a bit more comprehensive
[16:53] <mungbean> http://worldofgnome.org/ubuntu-gnome-is-approved-as-an-official-flavor/
[17:12] <bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
[17:14] <davmor2> morning bigcalm  how's life
[17:14] <bigcalm> davmor2: Not long picked up a poorly Hayley from her place of work. So the week is off to a good start. How are you?
[17:15] <ali1234> so the current plan is to go ahead with 13.04 release as normal, right?
[17:15] <popey> more or less, yes
[17:16] <ali1234> what's the latest that could possible change? the day before release?
[17:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: oh dear tell her I hope she gets better soon :(  I'm good ta, too much to do and not enough time and all that gubbings, but on the whole I'm good.
[17:16] <popey> i dont think the fact that it will release will change
[17:17] <ali1234> i think the most sensible option i heard so far is continue 6 monthly releases and only support them for 6 months
[17:18] <bigcalm> davmor2: such is our lot in life :)
[17:18] <bigcalm> davmor2: have you taught czajkowski all that you know yet?
[17:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: indeed but you'd not be happy with too little to do right :)
[17:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: no you always hold a little back so you are always the master ;)
[17:19] <bigcalm> davmor2: I don't think that that situation will ever happen, so I don't know how I would react
[17:19] <bigcalm> Haha
[17:20] <bigcalm> czajkowski: how do you feel, having davmor2 as your master? ;)
[17:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: we had a proper head frying day last thursday, but I think czajkowski is happier for it
[17:21] <bigcalm> :)
[18:29] <Burnsworthy> No-one around? Would I be better off coming back later?
[18:39] <davmor2> Burnsworthy: there are people around
[18:43] <popey> indeed
[18:48] <jacobw> !ask Burnsworthy
[18:48] <jacobw> !ask
[19:06] <popey> ooh movement on your patch ali1234  ☺
[19:22] <Burnsworthy> Alright - Install of 12.04 hangs after initial boot. power button shows last process was a battery check. Can access root terminal with ctrl-alt-f1. unable to proceed with install. Install machine is sony vaio vgn ns20s, with integrated gpu, 3gb ram, 2.1ghz cpu.
[19:22] <Burnsworthy> Question: How do I fix this?
[19:26] <popey> Burnsworthy: did you download 12.04 or do you have a pressed CD?
[19:31] <Burnsworthy> USB written with startup disk creator from 10.04 netbook edition. I've tried a live install, and one just for installation. Both have the same problem. I've not tried another version, though I know lubuntu 10.04 works fine, since that was what was on the usb previously.
[19:32] <popey> the reason I ask is that we recently released 12.04.2 http://releases.ubuntu.com/precise/
[19:32] <popey> which may be newer than the one you downloaded, depending on when you downloaded it
[19:33] <popey> i.e. what's the filename of the iso you downloaded?
[19:33] <Burnsworthy> Ah. That is indeed the version I used for the usb.
[19:33] <popey> ah ok
[19:40] <Burnsworthy> My intent is to install the os onto a partition on my external drive, so I imagine one solution might be to try a different pc for the install. From what I've seen on google, it may have something to do with my gpu drivers. However, the solutions I saw were seemingly intended for *post* install, so don't help in my case.
[19:43] <Burnsworthy> Oh, addendum - using another pc isn't possible in this case. My netbook doesn't have the specs to support 12.04.
[19:47] <popey> Burnsworthy: sorry, pass. I'd try either #ubuntu or http://askubuntu.com/
[20:07] <popey> directhex: is l4d2 any good?
[20:07] <popey> seems to be on sale
[20:13] <directhex> popey, sure, with friends
[20:14] <^aDaM> Evenings all long time no Cyber Speak, hello to brobostigon popey 2 people that helped me in the Linux world :)
[20:17] <popey> hi
[20:17] <popey> directhex: oh, not single player?
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: it can be played single-player?!
[20:18] <Burnsworthy> It's still good fun single player, imo. Definitely much better when played with a group though.
[20:19] <popey> might skip that then
[20:19] <directhex> popey, meh, bots
[20:19] <directhex> popey, it's a 4-player co-op game. up to you whether the co-op partners are human or not
[20:19] <popey> ah
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: L4D2 has a Linux version now? It's not in my list :(
[20:21] <^aDaM> I've a bit of a problem my Grub menu is broke, I am using Windows XP Pro 32Bit... and I need to remove everything and start from but can't seem to find out how to remove it properly... I can't access ubuntu as it has broken and dated. I want to get the new copy and start fresh.
[20:21] <^aDaM> Does anybody know how to remove the Grub menu at the start from Windows XP?
[20:22] <^aDaM> So I can reinstall a fresh copy of this Ubuntu or would it just overwrite it in the install process?
[20:23] <popey> the latter
[20:23] <popey> reinstall will put a fresh grub on the disk
[20:24] <^aDaM> Ah ok thanks popey, also I have no blank discs whats the other route?
[20:24] <^aDaM> Oh wait I've a USB Pendrive :)
[20:27] <popey> !usb
[20:27] <popey> :D
[20:27] <^aDaM> Nicee :D
[20:27] <^aDaM> Ubuntu IRC Bot has the answer to everything :P
[20:28] <^aDaM> Well if it wasnt for you and the gang.
[20:28] <Burnsworthy> Speaking of USBs, any thoughts regarding my query?
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> argh
[20:58] <jacobw> Tea, MartijnVdS?
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> Unity forgot I want sloppy focus + auto-raising windows
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> AGAIN
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> for the 600th time.
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> *fires up dconf-editor*
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1063617
[21:29] <redtape-renegade> AlanBell, I just read this off twitter ::::::: Ubuntu GNOME Is Now An Official Ubuntu Flavor wp.me/p34Cwj-xJ 5 hours ago .. Where is the portal for this on the Ubuntu Wiki ?
[21:37] <^aDaM_> The joys of UNetbootin :)
[21:39] <^aDaM_> Currently copying Ubuntu 12.10 via UNetbootin on my USB Stick can't wait to test this distro been a while since I have used Linux and any Ubuntu version for that matter.
[21:40] <^aDaM_> What is a good stable IRC client on 12.10?
[21:40] <^aDaM_> Before I shoot off and Boot my USB and go ahead with the installation I want a decent client.
[21:42] <^aDaM_> I'll be back...
[21:42] <^aDaM_> Boot time !
[22:02] <AlanBell> redtape-AFK: that is not my project, but I do like the idea of a gnome flavor, Gnome Shell really is rather good
[22:02] <AlanBell> I am using Unity and Gnome Shell on alternate weeks on 13.04
[22:03] <AlanBell> this week is a Gnome Shell week, which is great. It is just a touch smoother than unity in window management
[22:07] <ali1234> why... why would you even do that?
[22:07] <ali1234> alternate weeks?
[22:27] <AlanBell> well I want to see how Unity is getting along, but I also want to have some time with a deterministic alt-tab
[22:32] <ali1234> it just seems like 1 week would be nearly but not quite long enough to settle in
[22:33] <ali1234> i'd be in a permanent state of confusion if i tried to do that
[22:35] <AlanBell> well I did spend quite a long time on just Unity and never got settled in
[22:38] <AlanBell> I hope Unity in QML is going to be better, but I am not sure it is going to be optimised for people who like computers rather than mobile devices
[22:39] <AlanBell> dunno if alt-tab is going to be using the mouse to pick windows out from the right edge or something
[23:10] <solutionbckward> Hi, can someone help me with "playonlinux"?
[23:10]  * popey points at Azelphur 
[23:10]  * popey goes to bed
[23:10]  * Azelphur runs
[23:10] <solutionbckward> =[
[23:10] <Azelphur> solutionbckward: why not wine? :P
[23:10] <solutionbckward> idk what im doing, thats why lol
[23:10] <Azelphur> and what app are you trying to run
[23:11] <solutionbckward> im trying to play league of legends with my friend
[23:11] <Azelphur> yea, it's supposed to work in wine
[23:12] <Azelphur> with a little hackery anyway
[23:12] <solutionbckward> im seeing tutorials on how with play on linux, but its not coming up in mine when i search it
[23:13] <Azelphur> if you wanna use playonlinux, might wanna ask in #playonlinux, I've never used it myself
[23:13] <solutionbckward> i just want it to work
[23:13] <solutionbckward> my friends getting impatient lol
[23:14] <Azelphur> it's not going to be quick
[23:14] <Azelphur> but, http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=19141 has instructions on how to get it running in wine
[23:17] <solutionbckward> thanks