=== redtape-AFK is now known as redtape-renegade
redtape-renegadeMN Pop Quiz : Have you got it ..... and minus specks of quaver bits : *what's it called*  ? http://imgur.com/D4tiu8J00:21
redtape-renegadeAside: Actually how usefull is it in your 'popular' Ubuntu programs ?00:21
=== twager is now known as g3tpi
diploMorning all08:54
redtape-renegadeMorning. Chilly one diplo, http://i.imgur.com/yWiyfih.jpg09:00
airurandowill do09:15
JamesTaitHappy World Day Against Cyber Censorship, everyone! :-D09:21
JamesTait(That really needs a natty abbreviation)09:21
redtape-renegadeJamesTait, It's still going you know... http://www.ritetag.com/report/501163f14aa1077014e9f2e4080e55003609441d09:31
=== redtape-renegade is now known as redtape-AFK
SuperMattso, from mark's post last night, are we to start calling +1 "edge?"09:43
=== redtape-AFK is now known as redtape-renegade
czajkowskiSuperMatt: no he's mailed the TB about it09:46
czajkowskiTB being the technical board, Laney sits on it09:47
Laneyno I don't!09:47
czajkowskino DMB09:47
czajkowskiwhy do I always think you're on the TB09:47
Laneydunno, I'm not that cool :P09:47
czajkowskitis ok we can nominate you next time around09:47
czajkowskithen I'll be right09:47
redtape-renegadeSuperMatt, Seems to be seeing the mirrors http://www.ritetag.com/report/501163f14aa1077014e9f2e4080e55003609441d  [on other mobiles]09:59
redtape-renegadebad post..09:59
redtape-renegadeDamn Alt-click key ! SuperMatt , ^ http://www.rethink-wireless.com/2013/03/11/shuttleworth-responds-canonical-criticism.htm ^10:02
brobostigongood morning everyone,10:49
davmor2Morning all11:02
czajkowskipeka boo11:03
davmor2czajkowski: how old do you think we are, next you'll be blowing raspberries on out bellies11:05
czajkowskieh no11:06
redtape-renegadeDo you think we'll be seeing DaRK red with the *Gubuntu Logo* like my X-mini http://imgur.com/ATab1H9 ??11:11
redtape-renegade.. oh the AMD cpu heatsink bracket arrived.. Yipppee !11:11
=== Pendulum_ is now known as Pendulum
=== nperry` is now known as nperry
=== MonsterKiller_ is now known as MonsterKiller
=== popey_ is now known as popey
=== redtape-renegade is now known as redtape-AFK
* dwatkins tells colleagues about Waze after reading in the Telegraph about people stuck on the M23 over night without any information on the traffic13:31
=== redtape-AFK is now known as redtape-renegade
=== redtape-renegade is now known as redtape-AFK
SuperMattwhat does switching to QML mean for tools that we're used to, like nautilus and evolution?14:26
SuperMattso there's no plans to write a new file manager?14:27
SuperMattor anything like that14:27
popeythere is for phone14:32
popeybut not for desktop14:32
popeyanyone tried https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&feature=search_result#  ?14:32
=== marcushaslam_ is now known as marcushaslam
czajkowskiAlanBell: popey xnox jelmer picking another date to have the Hackntalk looking like end of June or begining of July any dates I should know about in advance to not clash with14:48
xnoxczajkowski: not 22nd/23rd of June, away at http://www.volleyballengland.org/competitions/tournaments_and_events/croyde_king_&_queen_of_the_beach14:50
diplopopey: Yeah I've used Torque, very good14:50
diploI was using the free version14:51
popeywhat did you use it for?14:51
diploMain reason was to find issues with my car from the ECU, but then used it after for MPG and a load of other stuff, only borrowed it from a friend ( the connector ) but was debating implementing a Phone/Tablet into the dash14:52
popeySomeone should make a qml version for ubuntu phone ;)14:56
SuperMattit's my plan to learn how to do this qml gubbins15:00
popeyyou should, it's the future!15:00
SuperMattI managed to get a little way in to doing tutorial stuff t'other day15:01
diplopopey, going to trying coding myself some apps soon15:06
diploNeed a spare phone to tesst on though :/15:06
popeyno you dont15:06
czajkowskixnox: looking at july as tryingto keep it to 4 months15:06
popeyyou can run the apps directly on your ubuntu desktop15:06
diploDo if i want to test Torque type app :)15:06
popeynot necessarily15:07
popeylaptop ☺15:07
popeyjob done15:07
diploGood thinking!15:07
diploSo just need to park the car within 10 metres of the house :D15:07
popeyor get a long usb cable to put the bt dongle on :D15:08
diploHmm another good thought15:08
jelmerczajkowski: none that I'm aware of at the moment15:09
AlanBellczajkowski: july is good for me15:10
diploAlso going to try and write an app for GoodReads15:10
SuperMattso far, I've noted that qml seems to be a bastardisation between python and javascript15:11
czajkowskifilled in th request for for mid July for the same venue - the cafe15:11
czajkowskias that was very nice15:11
czajkowskijelmer: you can give a talk the next time15:11
jelmerczajkowski: I feared I would be volunteered for one ;-)15:11
czajkowskijelmer: always next time :)15:11
jelmerthat's okay.. I think I'll have some actual project to talk about by then :-)15:12
czajkowskiit was  afun day and the only complaint I got was the lack of tea/coffee so all in all a fun day15:12
czajkowskimust write up a post about it15:12
* mungbean uses goodreads, but few of my friends do :(15:21
diplomungbean: Mines mainly for me when I go to a shop to see if i've read something or not15:37
diploBut also like the suggestions15:37
mungbeandiplo: i use shelves app on my phone for that15:40
mungbeanscanned all my books in15:40
AlanBellczajkowski: name tags might also be good15:49
czajkowskiAlanBell: aye good call15:49
diploNot seen the shelves app, will take a look..15:56
mungbeanthen i exported to a desktop app15:57
mungbeanthen imported into goodreads15:57
diploheh, I used to use an app on ubuntu called Alexandria, but there was no way to scan so I exported my results into Goodreads16:00
diploLast time I checked it didn't work anymore though16:00
mungbeanyeah it still works16:01
diploOooh that shelves looks quite good, could use it with my films as well16:01
mungbeanwas teh app that got me onto ubuntu16:01
mungbeansince building it on fedora core 3 was a nightmare16:01
mungbeanback in the day16:01
diploheh, right installing shelves to have a play16:02
mungbeandiplo: uses the barcode app to scan16:04
mungbeanyou can export from shelves to google books too16:04
diploHmm it's opensource now but still has ads ?16:06
diploMay have to compile it myself and remove that ad and then add functionality to read from goodreads api16:06
mungbeanwhat app has ads?16:07
mungbeani didn't notice16:10
mungbeani only use it to collate the data anyway16:10
popeydavmor2: what was that bodge to force software centre to use a different release?16:15
popeynvm found it!16:16
davmor2popey: SOFTWARE_CENTER_DISTRO_CODENAME="quantal" software-center16:16
popeyya ☺16:16
davmor2meh quit16:16
popeyfound it in a pm from you16:17
popeywanted to install nitro16:17
davmor2popey: but I didn't think you liked task managers :)16:18
popeywell, i liked tomboy as my task manager until online services took that away16:19
aquariusstgraber, ping about upstart user sessions16:19
* popey glares at aquarius 16:20
aquariuswhat did I do wrong now?16:20
popeyoh _nothing_16:20
popeyit's _fine_16:20
* popey looks up 8 lines then back at aquarius 16:20
aquariusif you think I don't get enough of this sort of crap off my daughter, you are not using your imagination16:20
aquariusoh, tomboy. yeah.16:21
aquariusexport to a folder with a plugin, and sync the folder.16:21
popeyanyway, i moved to syncing gpg encrypted notes via u116:21
aquariuser, sync to a folder, I mean,16:21
popeyand managed to get myself a talk out of it ;)16:21
aquariussomeone on the tomboy list suggested that, and it seemed a good idea to me16:21
aquariusI have not yet rationalised how I want to do this16:21
stgraberaquarius: stuck in meetings for now, ping me again in a couple of hours ;)16:21
aquariusI am waiting to see which notes app will work on both ubutnu desktop and ubuntu phone, and sync between them, and then I'll use it16:22
aquariusstgraber, no problem -- it is not urgent at all ;)16:22
popeynitro is quite nice16:22
aquariusit is not clear to me what the difference between nitro and the new one is16:23
aquariusalso: node-webkit on the phone. hm. perhaps, perhaps not.16:23
popey"the new one"?16:23
aquariusalso, I think all the jono cooper webkit-based apps are using gtk webkit16:24
mh0popey: nitro's awesome :D16:24
mh0aquarius: node-webkit16:24
popeyyes, looks nice16:24
popeyyay, my ODBII things are on their way from amazon prime16:25
aquariusmh0, yes, node, but something needs to actually render a webkit widget in a window. That's not node: that's gotta be gtk or qt or something.16:25
mh0aquarius:  Well, yeah, that :P16:25
mungbeanpopey: played with those on my focus16:26
mungbeandidn't give me as much as i'd hoped16:26
mungbeanused the torque app on android16:26
directhexan aquarius on irc? inconceivable!16:29
* aquarius laughs16:29
Laneya personal email from a company wot I ordered something from online thanking me for my order ♥16:30
czajkowskitomboy was nicer and better but :(16:30
DJones\o/ Just seen a tv advert showing Dr Who starting 30th March :)16:31
aquariusdoes dauphinoise actually *require* cream in it? I haven't got any cream. :(16:32
aquariusaha! you can use milk instead.16:35
* popey has a cookery class tomorrow16:36
aquariusI put all the cream I had in yesterday's dinner :)16:36
aquariusooh, flash16:36
aquariusI am self-teaching :)16:36
popeyit was a present16:38
popeywifey has asked some of her female friends over next week and I'm cooking16:41
popeycouple of them have veggie husbands so asked me to do meat, because they don't get any at home16:41
SuperMattmmm... meat16:42
mungbeanslow cooked leg o'lamb16:42
SuperMattwait, veggie husbands, but not the wives?16:42
SuperMattthat's quite a curious way round16:43
mungbeanoh yeah, weird16:43
mungbeanmust be some sort of club16:43
SuperMatta club I shall NEVER join16:43
mungbeanbacon wins16:43
SuperMatttroo dat16:43
directhexpfft, shoulda done carnitas.16:44
mh0czajkowski: What was tomboy again?16:59
mh0Some sort of note taking application, right?16:59
directhexa note-taking app and personal wiki.16:59
directhexweb sync for notes was exceedingly useful16:59
mh0Hm, well, I'll not reveal mine and Jono's secret then :P16:59
directhexfor sharing between multiple machines on multiple OSes16:59
mh0directhex: i guess syncing was a nice part of tomboy17:01
mh0did it ever have U1 syncing?17:01
directhexu1 was the main implementation of tomboy's web sync api for years17:01
SuperMattnow it's gone :(17:01
* mungbean cries17:07
mungbeantomboy was the killer app for u117:07
mungbeanfor me17:07
mungbeannow u1 is just another dropbox17:07
mungbeanjust as i approach my 5gb limit in u117:07
directhexi like u1ms too... although i wish it wasn't so painful to rename tracks17:07
directhexbut yes, i miss tomboy note sync17:07
* TheOpenSourcerer has a dead car :-(17:08
directhexgnote never gained support for that. apparently writing all the libs to mangle oauth etc from c++ is hard17:08
directhexTheOpenSourcerer, at least it's not a dead cat17:08
TheOpenSourcererI think he's still OK yes . Good point.17:08
popeyTheOpenSourcerer: the v70?17:08
TheOpenSourcererYes popey17:09
popeyoh dear17:09
popeywass up with it?17:09
TheOpenSourcererran out of coolant. I didn't know about it until the thing cooked itself.17:09
popeymine is also a touch unwell17:09
TheOpenSourcererHead gasket blown and probably cylinders/pistons cooked too17:09
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: ouchy ouch17:09
TheOpenSourcererCar's value? ~£50017:10
TheOpenSourcererRepair bill? > £50017:10
TheOpenSourcererAt least I made my meeting :-D17:10
popeybuy another one and swap the engine? ☺17:10
TheOpenSourcererCar died right outside17:10
TheOpenSourcererI can buy another one for not much more but we are not sure if that is what we want to do yet...17:11
TheOpenSourcererBeen talking about car placement plan for ages now.17:11
popeyi need to consider what to do with mine17:11
TheOpenSourcererNot made the plan though ;-)17:11
popeywhether to repair or replace ⍨17:11
popeydashboard broke ☹17:11
popeyso i have no idea how fast I'm going or how much fuel I have (or if it's overheating)17:12
popeyran out of fuel on the way to nans 97th birthday with the whole family on board on sunday17:12
TheOpenSourcererI like the idea of a personal lease of a new C/E class Merc estate for ~£350/m but we need to make sure we can afford it.17:12
popeyluckily had a 5L can in the boot17:12
popeyI'll probably get something like a mondeo size next17:12
SuperMattsurely driving that is not legal17:12
popeydon't need an estate anymore17:12
redtape-renegadethat's the xxbatt.s then. they didn't ta2e that did they ??17:12
popeySuperMatt: nope, not illegal17:13
TheOpenSourcererWifey still wants a MASSIVE car17:13
popeySuperMatt: it passed MoT like it, just a few weeks ago17:13
SuperMattI'd have thought not knowing your speed would be terribly illegal17:13
TheOpenSourcererI don't but she doesn't want to drive it much either. Just for the occasional trip camping with the kids.17:13
popeynot exceeding the limit is the problem17:13
popeysurely you could fit everything in a saloon with an occasional top box?17:14
popeyyou only have 2 sprogs don't you?17:14
TheOpenSourcererYou haven't met my wife17:14
TheOpenSourcererShe packs *everything*17:14
popeywell, funnily enough we had this convo after the volvo packed up17:14
TheOpenSourcererand some more.17:14
popeyyeah, wifey does same17:14
popeyand I pointed this out to her17:14
popeyshe said "yeah, I fill the available space"17:14
popeyi.e. if we had a smaller one she would _have_ to compromise17:14
TheOpenSourcererI am going to C&P this conversation and show Mrs TheOpenSourcerer17:15
popeyi dont want to spend loads on getting the volvo fixed17:15
popeyit's not that bad, will probably run for a few more years, it's a 51 diesel17:15
TheOpenSourcererBUt now I must away and make Twice Cooked Pork with stir-fried rice17:15
popeystill comfy, drives fine, cruises17:15
popeyhehe, nom17:15
TheOpenSourcererMine was a '99 petrol 2.4 turbo.17:16
TheOpenSourcererDrank fuel like I drink beer :-)17:16
directhexi looked at the cost of a new car today.17:18
directhexi am not getting a new car17:18
* aquarius leases a car. is a good idea17:19
popeyyou have a prius don't you directhex ?17:19
directhexpopey, aye17:20
popeydo you get any idea of the battery lifetime?17:20
directhexthe HV battery? none has ever been replaced in the UK, apparently17:21
SuperMattthay's pretty swift17:21
popey8 year warranty.. didn't know that17:22
directhexi'd hope to buy a yank car next17:22
directhexassuming affordability17:22
popeyyou moving over there?17:23
directhexi'd like a volt :)17:25
redtape-renegadeI'd like a Zazzle, but computer says no.17:26
popeyI'd love a tesla17:29
popeythere's one parked at the train station17:29
directhexrange anxiety :'(17:30
redtape-renegadepopey, Yeah probly the same color as my X-mini I posted at 11:11:16.. murkey red.17:32
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet
aquariusright. Don't make dauphinoise with milk instead of cream. It comes out rather boring.18:04
directhexcoulda told you that18:07
aquariusI didn't *have* any cream, though :(18:14
aquariusdirecthex, you have range anxiety about a tesla?18:15
aquariushow far do you need to drive?? it's got a range over twice every other electric car on the market :)18:16
directhexaquarius, well, the collabora commute is 85 miles each way, with no prospect of charging at the office18:16
directhexso i guess a guaranteed 170 mile bare minimum18:17
aquariusdirecthex, afaict, the roadster will do 250 miles, and everyone seems to agree with that (or that it'll do at least 200). Apart from Top Gear, obviously ;)18:17
MartijnVdSdon't drive it like Clarkson18:17
aquariusnothing else even comes *close* to 170 miles, otherwise I'd have an electric car :)18:17
directhexaquarius, well, hence why i like the volt.18:18
aquariusMartijnVdS, nah, the problem with Top Gear was that they lied about it, not that they drove it fast. It's a sports car. If you can't drive it like a lunatic on the track, what's the point of it? It's a sports car!18:18
directhexaquarius, i am an extremely cautious person, and plan my life for "plan b". plan b if a tesla runs dry is "cry onto your expensive leather seats"18:18
directhexvolt plan b is "insert a bit of petrol"18:18
aquariusdirecthex, nah. Plan B is "charge at any Nissan dealer or motorway service station somewhere between you and Cambridge" :)18:18
directhexi don't want a 13 hour stop at a service station18:19
MartijnVdSdirecthex: Vauxhall Ampera?18:19
aquariusyou don't need to completely charge it, though? 30 minutes -- "insert a bit of electricity", if you will.18:19
aquariusa vauxhall ampera *is* a Volt, isn't it? :)18:19
directhexMartijnVdS, rebadged volt!18:19
aquariuslulz :)18:19
MartijnVdSah.. didn't know that :)18:19
* redtape-renegade Spills half his dinner down his front.18:19
MartijnVdS<-- car n00b18:20
directhexi would take an ampera happily. better base spec & nicer trim than volt18:20
MartijnVdSall I know is I have a Smart "ForTwo" from '02 8-)18:20
directhexbut about £2k higher start price18:20
aquariusmy problem with the tesla roadster, apart from not being able to get in the thing, is that it is the price of a cheap house. :)18:20
aquariushence my Juke. :)18:20
directhexused volt is about £24k. only a year old though. maybe in 3 years' time, i can reassess18:21
aquariusI thought the new ones were about that (well, that they were about 30 but you got 5k off from the gummint)18:21
directhex35k minus 5k18:21
directhexgive or take18:21
aquariusoh. the 30k is *after* the deduction. Darn.18:22
MartijnVdSSo why do the Tesla S and Roadster get twice the range of all the others?18:22
directhexMartijnVdS, lots of batteries18:22
directhexli-ion is expensive18:22
MartijnVdSJust that? Wow.18:23
directhexlowest spec Ampera is £34,995.00, before gubmint grant18:23
directhexchevy site is down right now :)18:23
directhexthink it's about 33k18:24
MartijnVdSwow.. it starts at around 46k€ here18:24
aquariusMartijnVdS, a Tesla Roadster takes batteries roughly like laptop batteries. And it has six THOUSAND of them.18:24
aquariusthis is one of the reasons it's ninety grand :)18:24
directhexMeet the 2012 Car of the year: Volt. The electric car with extended range.18:25
directhexfrom £35,255.0018:25
MartijnVdSI'll stick to my Smart for now.18:25
aquariusI liked the look of the renault18:25
aquariusnow hear this, electric car manufacturers. If you avoid writing an actual range in miles anywhere on your website, and instead say things like "I bet you won't actually exceed the range", it does not make me trust you.18:26
MartijnVdS"OK, I'll drive to the north tip of Scotland to prove you wrong"18:27
directhexbasically i want more choice in the "range extended electric" field18:27
aquariusaha, finally. 115 miles range on a Fluence. Which is rubbish.18:27
directhexright now it's the amperavolt, or the prius plug-in18:27
MartijnVdSI want more charging locations18:27
directhexwhere the prius plug-in is pretty lame compared to the voltpera18:27
aquariusmore charging locations is a chicken/egg thing.18:27
MartijnVdSNearest charging location to my house is a 10 minute drive..18:27
aquariusI'll say this: the Ampera looks sweet.18:28
MartijnVdSand I can't get one at my house (flat/shared parking space)18:28
aquariusMartijnVdS, charge it in your garage. If you don't have a garage, then you are not currently part of the target demographic ;)18:28
directhexi.e. it's £33,245 and it's far far worse than £2k's worth of distance from an ampera18:28
aquariusbut I don't want a hybrid. :)18:28
redtape-renegadeaquarius, It's chicken/egg thing at the /Sunnyfarm/18:28
MartijnVdSaquarius: you could just not put petrol in the tank18:28
directhexprius plug-in is basically a prius with li-ion, i.e. it's a petrol car with an electric boost18:29
aquariusMartijnVdS, and have a range of about 40 miles. :)18:29
directhexampera is a pure electric car with a petrol generator slapped on it18:29
directhexi want electric drive. VROOOOM18:29
MartijnVdSI want self-driving electric vehicles18:30
aquariusme too, directhex18:30
aquariusit *baffles* me that no-one wants to make a car with a 200 mile eange.18:30
aquariusI mean, it is possible. Tesla have done it. Why won't Vauxhall make one?18:30
directhexaquarius, they do. but £££18:30
MartijnVdSaquarius: £€$ even18:31
aquariusafaict they do not18:31
aquariusthey *could* do, but no-one does.18:31
MartijnVdSso... we need cheaper, better battery tech18:31
aquariusif you want more than about 130 miles out of a car you *have* to buy a Tesla.18:31
aquariusyou can't buy, say, a Fluence with double the amount of battery in :)18:31
directhexprius plug-in range is about 12 miles :p18:31
* aquarius laughs hysterically. 12 miles? honestly?18:31
czajkowskiaquarius: you may have said before, but what do you currently drive?18:32
aquariusthat's like solid, condensed, 24-carat gold fail :)18:32
directhexup from 1 mile on the standard prius18:32
aquariusczajkowski, Nissan Juke.18:32
directhexthis is pure electric, of course18:32
directhexthat's the thing. prius is a petrol-first car. even the prius plug-in is petrol first18:32
czajkowskiaquarius: do you do much driving or is this a if the perfect car existed you'd buy it18:32
directhexampera's 40 miles is enough for typical drive, without any charge time waiting if you run out. just insert dinosaurs & set them on fire, to add charge18:33
aquariusczajkowski, I bought (well, began a two year lease on) my Juke last September. If there were an electric car that was suitable, I would absolutly, definitely have got one.18:33
aquariusBut a high proportion of my driving is in 120mile+ bursts.18:33
directhexif i could afford an ampera i would buy one in a heartbeat18:34
aquariusand nothing has changed since 2010 when I wrote http://kryogenix.org/days/2010/11/23/why-i-can-t-have-an-electric-car :)18:34
aquariusheh. First comment on that post: directhex recommending the ampera ;)18:35
directhexaquarius, i love the idea!18:36
czajkowskijons car seems to do well on diesel18:36
directhexand i love that for a change it's not the japanese pioneering something new18:36
aquariusmine's diesel.18:36
aquariusI was well disappointed that it gets about the same mpg as my Merc did on petrol, mind :)18:36
redtape-renegadeUnkles miniVan does well on diesel.18:38
directhexthe volt/ampera, and fisker karma, are the only extended-range electrics which are *capable* of pure electric locomotion18:38
directhexmost li-ion hybrids still burn a little petrol18:38
aquariusdirecthex, I thought the prius was pure electric if it was on the battery?18:38
popey18:24:44 < aquarius> MartijnVdS, a Tesla Roadster takes batteries roughly like laptop batteries. And it has six THOUSAND of them.18:38
popeyi read that in aquarius's voice18:38
aquariusdirecthex, it is silent. How does it manage that if there's an internal combustion engine running? Might be missing something here.18:39
directhexaquarius, well, with the old ni-cd prius, you can't pure electric it at over 30mph, or if you accelerate basically at all18:39
aquariusoh. that sucks.18:39
directhexor if the engine is cold18:39
aquariushahaha Fisker Karma.18:39
aquariusthat car is double sweet18:40
aquariusbut it's about quarter of a million notes :)18:40
aquariusand it's a hybrid. :)18:40
aquariusmildy surprised that Ssangyong aren't into this in a big way18:41
directhexthe prius drive train is built around the petrol engine. the electric motor cannot spin the wheels, it can only spin the petrol engine's cranky bits around18:41
aquariusha! I am thick. I thought Ssangyong were Chinese.18:41
popeythe 3rd gen tesla is supposed to be the cheapo mass-market one18:41
popeyafter the S18:41
* AlanBell likes the S18:41
directhexpopey, yeah... except it's a petrol car, mostly18:42
directhexsorry, saw 3rd gen, filled in prius18:42
directhextime for sleep18:42
directhexor cake18:42
aquariushttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollor%C3%A9_Bluecar ?? Never heard of this18:42
aquariusblimey! it is styled by Pininfarina.18:42
popeyfugly on a stick18:43
popeyPinanfarina has gona blind18:43
aquariusnot very well, though, looking at the pictures. Sergio, I am disappoint.18:43
aquariusnot that it's Sergio any more :)18:43
AlanBellah, no the model X is the one I like18:43
directhexof course, all the ampera love might be disproved by a test drive18:43
popeygolly, the place wifey bought her vauxhall has a leccy charger18:44
directhex(e.g. honda civic hybrid and honda insight are terrible cars)18:44
aquariusoof, and they want 500eur pm for it, which is a bit rich for a car that looks like a liquorice allsort.18:44
aquarius"As of November 2012, GM has not disclosed details about the range" (of the Spark). Perhaps this means that it will be 400 miles!18:46
* aquarius thinks not18:46
popey☹  so no leccy car for me18:47
* AlanBell pops out for bioethanol18:48
directhexwow, there are only 526 voltperas in the UK18:48
directhex67 volts, the rest amperas18:48
TheOpenSourcererSomeone needs to sort out fuelcells so they work and are cost effective. Batteries suck big time.18:49
TheOpenSourcererOr make the batteries from Graphene.18:49
AlanBelljust chuck a few carrots in the Mr Fusion18:49
aquariusTheOpenSourcerer, not sure I see the point in having fuel cells working in a car.18:49
TheOpenSourcererYou can refill them in a few minutes.18:50
TheOpenSourcererThey have a much better range18:50
directhexhonda have some concept ones in california18:50
aquariusI can refill my car in a few minutes. :)18:50
directhexand three charging stations!18:50
aquariusah, we're talking about hydrogen fuel cells? not methanol?18:50
TheOpenSourcererYes, but you can't charge a leccy car in that time.18:50
AlanBellthe fuel for fuel cells is made from electricity18:50
aquariuslike the Clarity?18:50
directhexprecisely like the clarity18:50
aquariusright. Then the problem is not the car, it's how you put a hydrogen delivery platform everywhere. You have to convince every petrol station on the globe to also sell hydrogen.18:51
aquariusI can't see how that's going to happen.18:51
aquariuswithout massive government intervention18:51
directhexaquarius, somehow LPG got traction18:51
aquariushahaha no it didn't.18:51
aquariuswhere's your nearest LPG station?18:51
directhexaquarius, but yes, you're right - but you're really just selling EREV like the ampera here! :D18:52
TheOpenSourcererNow delivery and storage of Hydrogen is not so much of an issue as it was around the time of the Zeppelins18:52
AlanBellfuel cells/batteries need to be pluggable18:52
directhexaquarius, the estate behind my house has a place selling LPG :)18:52
* redtape-renegade checks ritetag.com for #hydrogenfuelcells18:52
aquariusdirecthex, really? blimey. The nearest one to me is four or five miles away, and I'm in the country!18:52
aquariuswell, sortof. ;)18:52
TheOpenSourcererIceland could produce most of the world's Hydrogen for very low costs.18:52
AlanBellgo to fuel station, remove battery/fuel module, shove in fresh one18:52
popeyloads near me aquarius18:52
aquariusTheOpenSourcerer, srsly, I am not worried about the Hindenberg, or about storage, I'm worried about how you build as many hydrogen delivery stations as there are petrol stations.18:53
aquariuspopey, you *are* in the country, though ;)18:53
directhexaquarius, http://www.countrywidefarmers.co.uk/pws/Content.ice?page=EnergyAutoGasRefuellingOutlets&pgForward=businesscontentfull18:54
popeyfancy that18:54
aquariusthe reason I like electric cars is that the fuel delivery infrastructure already exists, and it's in your house. You can privately and unilaterally opt in; you don't have to wait for Shell to *decide* that they want to support your quixotic car adventure.18:54
directhexso neener neener boo boo :D18:54
popeyLets Kickstarter an Open Source electric car!18:54
popey(or lets go down the pub and laugh at that idea)18:54
* aquarius grins18:54
aquariuspeople suggested that in comments when I complained about electric cars.18:55
aquarius"build your own!"18:55
aquariusI'm like, hahahaa, no.18:55
directhextop gear did that18:55
aquariusthey did :)18:55
ali1234get a scrapper for £5018:55
redtape-renegadethought so, there's nothing in G+comm/twitter for #hydrogenfuelcells18:55
ali1234fill it with enough Li batteries to burn down a small city18:56
popeyhaha, plastic chair18:56
ali1234"sounds like a good idea"18:56
aquariusali1234, it's doable, it's just not clear how you do it *economically*. The Tesla cars are basically perfect electric cars, it's just that they're four times the price of a normal equivalent petrol car :)18:56
directhex"This time, it was armed with more batteries, and a diesel generator to recharge said batteries."18:57
directhexthey didn't build an electric, they built an ampera :D18:57
popeyalthough watching Elon Musk do his press release for their latest car was uncomfortable18:57
ali1234it was fine18:57
aquariusdirecthex, they made that point :) They were dead pleased to have built a hybrid ;)18:57
popeyyes, "fine"18:57
directhexi'd love a tesla as a toy. i wouldn't want one as my main vehicle18:57
directhexi wouldn't want to visit family in the south of france in a tesla18:58
directhexeven the S18:58
ali1234guy has so much money it doesn't even matter18:58
popeydont have a second child, fill the spare seat with batteries18:58
* popey has steak for dinner18:59
directhexsounds explodey18:59
popeyand red cabbage18:59
redtape-renegadeScotch yellow egg for mine ..18:59
directhex'In an effort to avoid "pulling a Telsa", BMW is reportedly planning to offer petrol-powered loaners to i3 buyers who need to -- you know -- actually drive somewhere other than work.'19:01
aquariusthe i3's a plugin hybrid, isn't it?19:02
directhex'According to WardsAuto, however, BMW is piecing together a program that would allow i3 buyers to grab a gasoline-powered Bimmer when long hauls are necessary, and the loaner program will be bundled into the cost of the car.'19:02
aquariusgot an electric range of about 40 miles :)19:02
directhexi3 is pure electric19:02
directhexor there'd be no need for the loan programme19:02
popeyelectric range of "your house to the nearest dealership to pick up a petrol car"19:02
directhex90 mile range19:02
aquariusaah, the i8 is the hybrid19:03
ali1234er... how do i allow it to access my camera?19:06
popeyin chromium it just asks19:08
ali1234i guess firefox can't do it then19:08
directhexdoesn't show much19:08
directhexof course, my laptop is closed19:08
AzelphurI decided I'd brave the waters of the silkroad market purely to see what all the hype is about, funny enough, not all drugs19:09
Azelphurthere's normal stuff on there too, computer hardware, games, etc19:09
aquariuspopey, hey, will ubuntu tablet work on the original asus transformer?19:19
aquariusI won't bother trying to steal it back from Niamh then ;)19:20
popeywe did use it on that initially19:20
popeybut that was $time ago19:21
ali1234that reminds me i need to figure out how to install it on ideapad19:21
ali1234i think i'll wait for raring update19:21
popeythats going to be soon19:22
ali1234hmm this is weird19:22
ali1234in KDE, you can drag Gtk windows (ie move them) from the menubar19:22
ali1234(from a blank area)19:23
ali1234but not KDE apps19:23
ali1234and i never saw this happen in gnome19:23
stgraberaquarius: hey, so you had a question?19:25
aquariusstgraber, I do! Two questions, actually. First: how can I tell if upstart is now running my user session?19:28
aquariusstgraber, if it isn't, then I won't ask the second question yet :)19:28
stgraberaquarius: chances are it's not as it's off by default19:29
aquariusoh. heh :)19:29
aquariusstgraber, ok, I shall ask my second question and that'll help decide whether I want to turn it on :)19:29
stgraberaquarius: you can tell by checking whether your current session is listed in /etc/upstart-xsessions but by default only ubuntu is listed there and only as a comment19:29
aquariusstgraber, what I would like to do is: when I am connected to a particular wireless network, stop the screen from locking due to inactivity.19:30
aquariusstgraber, I could, of coruse, write a daemon which listens to NetworkManager's D-Bus signals and, when on the correct network, inhibits the screensaver.19:30
aquariusbut I do not like daemons.19:30
stgraberI don't think we have any bridge with network-manager at this point, so you'd probably need to implement an extra bridge to get the DBus signal (we really need a generic dbus signal bridge)19:31
aquariusWhat I *want* is, when I switch to a new wireless network (or boot the machine, etc), for *something* to be monitoring that, and for that something to start up my app, which can then decide what to do and then shut down19:31
aquariusthat is: I want to separate the "be a daemon" and "do work" bits of the app, and have upstart handle the "be a daemon" bit ;)19:31
aquariusis that something that is in theory doable, even if it's not doable right now?19:32
stgraberyes, it's definitely the kind of thing we want to eventually get into upstart, it's not easily doable just yet though19:32
stgraberor actually it may be pretty easy with a couple of hacks19:33
aquariusI think up an awful lot of ideas which go something like: when $dbus-signal from $app happens, do $action. The only way to do that right now, as far as I can tell, is to be a daemon which runs all the time in order to get the signal. I would very much like it if upstart could take over that be-a-daemon part of the world :)19:33
stgraberyou can dump a shell script into /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d which will then emit system wide events for any kind of network change. Then you can write user jobs that do "start on :sys:your-new-event CONDITION=something"19:33
stgraber^ the above is a NM-specific solution for what you want. I agree we'll want a more generic way of hooking upstart to dbus signals19:34
aquariusaha, that sounds like a useful interim hack :)19:34
aquariusso, to make sure I understand properly: if I did that, right now, I also have to enable something to make upstart run in my user session?19:35
aquariusif I put upstart jobs in ~/.init right now, they'll be ignored?19:35
stgraberyeah, but you should wait until the new dbus, gnome-session and gnome-settings-daemon hit the archive (I uploaded them 30min ago), otherwise you won't be able to get a working user session anyway19:36
* aquarius laughs19:36
aquariusI shall wait a while before trying this, then, since stuff is all in flux :)19:36
aquariusbut this sounds promising19:36
aquariusthanks, stgraber!19:36
stgraberright. Wait for dbus, gnome-session and gnome-settings-daemon to land in the archive, then uncomment ubuntu in /etc/upstart-xsessions and then it should be working19:36
stgraberI'm running the packages I just uploaded and they're definitely working here ;)19:37
aquariusbeing able to do "start on dbus:some-dbus-thing:some-signal name" would be totally utterly brilliant :019:38
LaneyJust kicked a full mug of tea over and sent it spiralling across half the sitting room19:46
Laney1001 will sort it out, I'm sure ...19:48
* Laney goes out for a bike ride while it dries19:49
directhexi'm going home, i think19:52
directhexhome seems awesome to me19:53
directhexfull of things like "bed"19:53
directhexand "xbox"19:53
Laneynot baby and wife?19:53
directhexoh, those guys19:53
directhexsure, i guess19:53
stgraberaquarius: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608742/19:53
* TheOpenSourcerer heads off to the lounge to watch Horizon then Masterchef with a nice glass of scotch...19:54
stgraberaquarius: put that into /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/02upstart, make it executable and you'll get nice upstart events whenever something changes in NM19:54
directhexi'm out of rum :(19:54
directhexalso, 2 hour drive home :(19:54
aquariusstgraber, nice!19:54
Laneygood god does haskell-lens's testsuite take forever to run19:54
Laneyit doesn't even output anything while it's doing so19:55
stgraberaquarius: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608746/ that's what I get on wired here19:55
stgraberaquarius: so I should now be able to do "start on :sys:nm-connection-up INTERFACE=eth1 DHCP4_ROUTERS=" and have it only trigger when on my network ;)19:55
aquariusvery cool indeed!19:55
stgraberaquarius: output for a VPN when still connected on wired: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5608751/19:57
AlanBellbioethanol fail :(20:05
* aquarius tries to work out how to inhibit the screensaver without being a long-running process. :(20:10
aquariusI assumed this bit would be easy :(20:10
aquarius...and it seems not doable at all. :(20:18
ali1234redtape-renegade: just found this http://askubuntu.com/questions/51394/my-webcam-is-not-working-with-google-hangout-can-i-make-it-work20:23
ali1234if your camera uses gspca, this is why it doesn't work, and a workaround20:23
aquariusgaah. Looking at cuttlefish, which might do this for me (in the absence of upstart greatness) and... it's only in USC for 12.04 :(20:36
aquariusand running the download has no actions defined.20:40
aquariusthe universe doesn't want me to do this, does it?20:40
* aquarius just turns off screen lock, with a sense of annoyance and trepidation.20:41
Laneythat's the typical problem I've been finding too - not how to find the right upstart events, but /what/ to run21:01
=== GentileBen is now known as SirCrispinTheJew
bigcalmGood evening peeps :)23:08

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