[00:00] <micahg> yeah, sounds like SRU is the best bet if you can swing it
[00:00] <Mamarok> mind you, some of the problems are due to upstream gstreamer, but that is a whole different chapter :(
[00:00] <micahg> so, apachelogger can get back to me if that's possible/planned
[00:01] <Mamarok> well, SRU is someting new for me, and all I want is having those packages to test, and having to fill in paperwork is equally new, that was never necessary for those before
[00:01] <micahg> well, that's the benefit of PPAs, no paperwork, but the audience is limited as well
[00:01] <Mamarok> so if testers have to go through hoops to get actual packages to test you will not get many testers
[00:01] <shadeslayer> the stream issue is not gst specific
[00:01] <shadeslayer> it's specific to the phonon-gstreamer backend
[00:01] <Mamarok> and I have the problem that I asked for packages and those were denied based on not being sufficiently tested, so a serpent that bits its tail
[00:01] <shadeslayer> but in reality, it's a bug in webkit :D
[00:01] <shadeslayer> we had fun debugging that one
[00:02] <micahg> shadeslayer: which package is it?  I"ll throw up a backport for testing if it'll work against the release/updates KDE stack
[00:02] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: we have stream bugs that are upstream
[00:02] <Mamarok> I can give you half a ton of dupes for that, I close 3 a day
[00:02] <Mamarok> and that sucks big time, crashes
[00:02] <shadeslayer> micahg: phonon-backend-gstreamer
[00:02] <Mamarok> on track change
[00:02] <shadeslayer> micahg: phonon-backend-vlc for the vlc one
[00:03] <Mamarok> anyway, I only want a package for us to test, don't make work for testers more complicated, please
[00:04] <micahg> well, if you're expecting it in the PPA, I can't help, I can give you a package in my PPA (not trying to sidetrack/hurt anything here)
[00:04] <Mamarok> that's fine, I don't care where it is, as long as I getpackages
[00:04] <Mamarok> point it to markey, he still uses Quantal
[00:05]  * Mamarok doesn't understand why apachelogger couldn't package that somewhere so we could test, he is the maintainer after all, it's all in his interest
[00:05] <micahg> uploaded to ppa:micahg/ppa, need about 3 hours to build/publish
[00:06] <Mamarok> this time, off to bed
[00:06] <Mamarok> markey: ^
[00:06] <shadeslayer> micahg: for SRU purposes I think https://projects.kde.org/projects/kdesupport/phonon/phonon-gstreamer/repository/revisions/2527727cbc304a66d0a77f66d42fd194a1f003e5/diff is enough
[00:06] <shadeslayer> that fixes the stream issues
[00:08] <micahg> shadeslayer: if that fixes the bug and a full SRU isn't feasible, then SRU that fix and I'd still be up for backporting the full 0.6.2 for those who want it
[00:08] <shadeslayer> yeah
[00:08] <micahg> hrm, just realized, I threw up the vlc package
[00:09] <micahg> vlc is wasy as auralquiz is the only rdep
[00:09] <shadeslayer> heh
[00:10] <shadeslayer> huzzah
[00:10]  * micahg throws up gstreamer after a local build
[00:10] <shadeslayer> I now officially hate gst people for changing soft api
[00:13] <micahg> -gstreamer needs 2 binary tests and 1 build dep test
[00:14] <micahg> -gstreamer uploaded as well
[00:16] <shadeslayer> 2 binary tests?
[00:17] <micahg> 2 binary rdeps
[00:17] <shadeslayer> ah I see
[00:17] <micahg> these are good candidates for -backports IMHO
[00:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: gst 1.0 has API changes like these : http://paste.kde.org/694664/
[00:20] <Riddell> tidying up is sensible I suppose
[00:20] <shadeslayer> yep it is, it's just that I've missed one or two small changes like these
[00:20] <shadeslayer> and everything goes kaput
[00:22] <shadeslayer> well, tomahawk works as well
[00:22] <shadeslayer> so huzzah
[00:42] <keithzg> Not to be a broken record, but, was going to do the "Install (auto-resize)" test on the AMD64 ISO and, that isn't actually an option in the installer then, eh?
[00:44] <Riddell> keithzg: it is but only if the installer recons you have enough free space to do it
[00:45] <Riddell> often on a virtual machine or a full hard disk or a hard disk with lots of partitions it doesn't
[00:46] <keithzg> Riddell: Hmm. The disk doesn't have too many partitions; on the other hand, all the free space is within the single NTFS partition, and I've seen many Linux partition utilities sometimes being unable to see space usage, wonky filesystem that it is.
[00:48] <Riddell> keithzg: yeah that could be it
[01:24] <Roey> Riddell:  hey!
[01:25] <Riddell> hi Roey 
[01:40] <keithzg> Hmm, GParted at least appears to report the right amount of space free on the NTFS partition, wheras the installer is wildly off. If I were to report a bug, what should I be reporting it against?
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> ubiquity would be a safe bet
[01:43] <xnox> keithzg: what do you mean by wildly off? cannot shrink?
[01:43] <xnox> keithzg: ubuntu-bug ubiquity (from terminal started with ctrl-alt-t or ctrl-alt-f1) would be awesome.
[01:47] <keithzg> xnox: I mean Windows and GParted (run from SystemRescueCD; i18n issues seem to prevent me from installing it in live session) report ~60% partition space usage; installer reports 93%!
[01:48] <xnox> interesting. What version of Windows?
[01:48] <keithzg> Windows 7 64-bit.
[01:50] <keithzg> Interestingly, the 93% is probably about what it was at when I first found it lying around the office earlier this week. So perhaps somehow it's reading an outdated state from the filesystem.
[01:55] <keithzg> Running 'ubuntu-bug ubiquity' actually results in an Apport error for me: "E:Encountered a section with no Package: header, E:Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_raring_universe_i18n_Translation-en, E:The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened."
[02:03]  * keithzg rebooted and it seems to have worked fine this time, at least from the VT
[02:04] <xnox> keithzg: but, i'd want the bug report once the partitioning page is visible, as only then the partitioning info is read.
[02:06] <keithzg> xnox: yeah, I actually did suppose so I went right to that and let it load before I went ctrl-alt-f1 to run ubuntu-bug. Err, at least I think I did . . . I'll do it again now before I actually submit it just in case.
[02:07] <xnox> =) thanks a lot.
[02:08] <keithzg> no problem!
[02:08] <xnox> keithzg: what did you do to between when you found it and started ubiquity? did you change/resize the partitions in any way?
[02:10] <keithzg> xnox: nope. The only thing I've done is, from within Windows, deleted a lot of data (tons of now-useless test folders and such from the last person who used it ages ago).
[02:11] <xnox> keithzg: i fear that windows7 is using LDM by default and we are not handling it right. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Disk_Manager )
[02:11] <xnox> thus it looks opaque to us.
[02:14] <keithzg> xnox: Hmm, that makes sense, especially since the installer seems to see 4 distinct partitions while Windows only saw one drive. I should probably boot back into Windows and double-check that all then, though.
[02:15] <xnox> keithzg: thanks that would be wonderful. I hack on the installer, but have no access to Windows7/8 and I fear we are regressing in dual-boot install scenario there.
[02:29] <keithzg> Hmmm, it doesn't *look* like it's using LDM, but I really don't quite know how to tell.
[02:32] <keithzg> Well, it does say "Basic" on the disk in diskmgmt.msc.
[02:41] <keithzg> xnox: I've submitted the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1154405
[02:45]  * keithzg now scurries home, finishing a long workday, but is extremely willing to be a guinea pig for dual-boot install testing tomorrow if there's anything to be done on this or other issues
[04:57] <Noskcaj> has anything happened towards getting bug 1066223 fixed?
[04:58] <Noskcaj> also, something wierd happened to me in the install
[05:10] <Noskcaj> http://oi48.tinypic.com/2znyecy.jpg
[07:00] <soee> good morning
[07:08] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1094360] qt4 apps such as vlc: QGtkStyle was unable to detect the current GTK+ theme unless libgnom... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1094360 (by Doug McMahon)
[07:26] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:49] <apachelogger> hm
[08:49] <apachelogger> I wonder whatever happened to the SRU
[08:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: could you please find out why phonon gstreamer SRU is waiting in new of precise and quantal ... bug 1115276 bug 1115270 bug 1115286 bug 1115277 bug 918688
[09:04] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna:   File "/usr/share/kde4/apps/muon-notifier/releasechecker", line 28, in <module>
[09:04] <apachelogger> .....
[09:04] <apachelogger> ImportError: No module named http.client
[09:04] <apachelogger> raring
[09:05] <apachelogger> also updater seems bugged in general
[09:05] <apachelogger> can't mark entire categories for updates for example, also nothing appears selected when starting the updater
[09:06] <apachelogger> Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
[09:06] <apachelogger> oh
[09:06] <apachelogger> apt-get check says nothing though :(
[09:09] <apachelogger> dpm: do you think the excessive header buisness (around line 56) will be a problem for launchpad? http://paste.kde.org/694898/
[09:12] <dpm> apachelogger, yeah, I think it might be a problem, for Launchpad or for every tool that parses gettext headers. I'm not sure what will actually happen: I guess it will either just pick the data for the first header or throw an error. 
[09:12] <apachelogger> hm, ok, thanks
[09:37] <murthy> hello everyone
[09:41] <murthy> yofel: what happened to the thirdparty update bug in ubiquity?
[09:49] <murthy> BluesKaj: are you there?
[09:57] <lordievader> Manual partitioning in the i368 raring beta 1 image has double options for filesystem-type, example: double ext4, double ext3, etc.
[10:00] <yofel> murthy: haven't look at it later - is there a bug on launchpad? If not open one
[10:02] <yofel> murthy: bug 1087409?
[10:07] <murthy> progressbar would be nice
[10:08] <lordievader> There is a blank button in Ubiquity at the stage "Retrieving file" using: raring beta 1 i386.
[10:21] <murthy> yofel: yesterday when i tried to "strace ubiquity kdeui" it doesn't run, the ui parameter for ubiquity is an approx
[10:35]  * apachelogger falls off chair
[10:36]  * jussi offers apachelogger a hand up
[10:39] <yofel> kubotu: newversion digikam 3.1.0 http://www.digikam.org/node/688
[10:40] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1154532
[10:41] <lordievader> In the oem-config there is a 'back' and 'continue' button present, when the utility is configuring and setting up stuff. Shouldn't those buttons be removed?
[10:41] <lordievader> This is still i386 raring beta1 btw.
[10:42] <Riddell> lordievader: yep, could you report that?
[10:43] <lordievader> Riddell: As a bug against ubiquity?
[10:43] <Riddell> lordievader: yep
[10:43] <lordievader> Riddell: Will do!
[10:55] <apachelogger> this jussi person I like
[10:55] <jussi> :)
[10:56] <apachelogger> tada http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-patched-l10n/trunk/view/head:/README 
[10:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^
[10:58] <lordievader> Hehe, just while I'm done testing i386...
[10:58] <Riddell> lordievader: always the way with testers I'm afraid, it's still all appreciated!
[10:59] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[10:59] <lordievader> Riddell: I suppose it is yes, I do like the job though :)
[11:06] <murthy> BluesKaj: hi
[11:07] <BluesKaj> hi murthy
[11:08] <murthy> BluesKaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1087409
[11:08] <murthy> BluesKaj:  thats our bug
[11:12] <BluesKaj> nope , my freeze needs a power down reboot , there;s no going back or KB response
[11:12] <BluesKaj> murthy,^
[11:13] <lordievader> BluesKaj: X completly freezes? Does the magic-key-combo still work?
[11:13] <murthy> BluesKaj: that happens to me too
[11:13] <BluesKaj> there is no keyboard response 
[11:13] <BluesKaj> period
[11:13] <murthy> BluesKaj: thats because the update process blocks the man process
[11:14] <BluesKaj> it shouldn't
[11:14] <murthy> BluesKaj: no cursor activity?
[11:14] <BluesKaj> no
[11:14] <murthy> ya it shouldn't
[11:14] <lordievader> BluesKaj, murthy: http://www.howtogeek.com/119127/use-the-magic-sysrq-key-on-linux-to-fix-frozen-x-servers-cleanly-reboot-and-run-other-low-level-commands/
[11:14] <BluesKaj> it's not the same bug
[11:14] <murthy> yesterday was taking a look at the code
[11:15] <murthy> lordievader: ah i know that
[11:15] <lordievader> murthy: Does that still work?
[11:15] <murthy> lordievader: but i don't like some of them disabled in ubuntu/kubuntu
[11:15] <murthy> lordievader: ya
[11:16] <lordievader> Yayy, new images to test :D
[11:17] <murthy> BluesKaj: can you try after not selecting the "download third part software" option?
[11:17] <murthy> BluesKaj: can you try after not selecting the "download third *party software" option?
[11:17] <murthy> lordievader: :)
[11:18] <BluesKaj> murthy, it doesn't get that far into the install
[11:18] <Darkwing> aaaaaaaaaaaaand good morning
[11:18] <murthy> lordievader: for ubuntu alt+print screen+s to do an emergency sync and alt+ printscreen+b to reboot
[11:18] <murthy> Darkwing: good morning
[11:18] <murthy> BluesKaj: strange
[11:19] <lordievader> Hey Darkwing, how are you?
[11:19] <murthy> BluesKaj: when you have time, tell me we can try to debug
[11:19] <Darkwing> Not bad at all. It's 7:20a, I have coffee so I'm happy.
[11:19] <lordievader> murthy: It's good to do the full "reisub", is cleaner.
[11:19] <Darkwing> Day 5 of quitting smoking.
[11:20] <murthy> lordievader: does it work :)
[11:20] <lordievader> Darkwing: Oh, and? How are you taking it? Good job, btw!
[11:20] <Darkwing> I take my coffee black
[11:20] <lordievader> murthy: The full reisub asks process to stop, if they don't kills it. Unmounts drives etc. I.e. clean :)
[11:20] <apachelogger> kubotu: order coffee
[11:20]  * kubotu slides a cup of steamy hot coffee down the bar to apachelogger.
[11:21] <apachelogger> THATS RIGHT, I ALSO GOT THE COFFEE
[11:21] <apachelogger> and ahoy Darkwing
[11:21] <Darkwing> lol Morning apachelogger
[11:22] <BluesKaj> I'm not going to try again murthy...it's installed now and debugging from here is pointless since there are no written logs. Not going waste my time on it .
[11:22] <murthy> BluesKaj: np
[11:22] <apachelogger> lordievader: mhh, technically E will issue a terminate signal which is not the same as a quit signal
[11:23] <apachelogger> it's a nicer than kill, but also not that much nicer ^^
[11:23] <Darkwing> Holy... Mumble takes up 33% of my CPU?
[11:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: l10n readme looks good, are you needing more feedback/testing?
[11:23] <lordievader> apachelogger: Hmm, ok. Well I don't know the details, just the general outline.
[11:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: if you have bandwith running build.sh would be cool
[11:23] <murthy> apachelogger: why are some og the magic keys disabled in ubuntu ?
[11:23] <lordievader> apachelogger: It's better than just pulling the plug, or so I've read ;)
[11:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: I did some changes but since I am on limited bandwith until friday I did not do a full run with the changes
[11:24] <Darkwing> Riddell: Did we ever get the SVGs for the business cards?
[11:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: other than that I'll upload after b1
[11:24] <apachelogger> (needs changes to pkg-kde-tools)
[11:24] <apachelogger> murthy: they are not
[11:24] <apachelogger> lordievader: that's for sure ^^
[11:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: need an ec2?
[11:24] <murthy> apachelogger: let me check again
[11:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, that'd be nice
[11:25] <Riddell> Darkwing: http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-jr.svg ?
[11:26] <apachelogger> lordievader: oh and what no one ever mentions... it is advisble to wait a couple of seconds before going from E to I, as an app may need longer to terminate than what the kernel would like it to
[11:26] <murthy> apachelogger: I am getting "SysRq: This sysrq operation is disabled"
[11:26] <Riddell> Darkwing: needs someone to adapt it for each person who wants one
[11:26] <Darkwing> Riddell: I thought the vote ended with the one that looked like it was being peeled back...
[11:26] <apachelogger> murthy: where do you get that?
[11:27] <lordievader> apachelogger: I just wait between every key press a few seconds.
[11:27] <Riddell> Darkwing: I don't think we got an editable version of that
[11:27] <murthy> apachelogger: in new tty i guess
[11:27] <Darkwing> Riddell: Ahh, okay.
[11:28] <murthy> apachelogger: ctrl+alt+f1  and pressed "alt+printscreen+r"
[11:28] <apachelogger> curious enough
[11:29] <yofel> apachelogger, murthy: -> /etc/sysctl.d/10-magic-sysrq.conf
[11:29] <yofel> some got disabled
[11:29] <murthy> yofel: ya know that, but why?
[11:29] <apachelogger> is that from debian?
[11:30] <yofel> murthy: security reasons
[11:30] <murthy> oh
[11:30] <apachelogger> yofel: how does that impact security?
[11:30] <murthy> in that case lordievader we cannot do what you said by default
[11:30] <yofel> apachelogger: read the file...
[11:30] <Riddell> apachelogger: ubuntu@ec2-23-22-206-184.compute-1.amazonaws.com
[11:31] <yofel> apachelogger: and seems ubuntu specific
[11:31] <apachelogger> fun
[11:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: merci
[11:32] <murthy> good reason
[11:39] <murthy> i looked at the code in ubiquity/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-prepare.py and it seems to be only configuring the ui and some settings, there is no processess executed there
[11:39] <murthy> yofel: ^
[11:39] <murthy> yofel: i may be wrong
[11:40] <yofel> no, but it does set the command that is to be run
[11:40] <yofel> I didn't find out the actual place it's called at
[11:41]  * apachelogger cold
[11:41] <murthy> yofel: ya
[11:41] <murthy> i will search for it
[11:43] <murthy> apachelogger: run a 1080p flash video and hug the laptop
[11:49] <apachelogger> :S
[12:07]  * smartboyhw says hi
[12:07] <smartboyhw> anyone packaging digikam?
[12:07] <lordievader> Hey smartboyhw, how are you?
[12:09] <murthy> smartboyhw: hi
[12:09] <smartboyhw> :)
[12:11] <yofel> smartboyhw: I reserved it, but feel free to take over - bug 1154532
[12:11]  * yofel didn't start yet
[12:11] <smartboyhw> yofel, OK:)
[12:11]  * smartboyhw assigns the bug to himself
[12:12] <Riddell> remember: beta 1 testing needed
[12:12] <smartboyhw> Riddell, OK I will be download the image using TestDrive and test:P
[12:13]  * yofel does upgrade tests
[12:13]  * lordievader starts testing amd64
[12:13] <smartboyhw> yofel, yeah
[12:14] <smartboyhw> lordievader, ouch I want to do amd64:P
[12:14] <smartboyhw> LOL
[12:14] <smartboyhw> Maybe I will test the actives then
[12:14] <yofel> it doesn't hurt to test twice ^^
[12:14] <lordievader> smartboyhw: More testing is better :)
[12:15] <lordievader> Has the button font for 'Try Kubuntu' and 'Install Kubuntu' changed, they are a lot bigger. Not sure if this is intended.
[12:16] <Riddell> lots of different test cases to chose from too
[12:16] <Riddell> lordievader: yes agateau did some font changes yesterday
[12:16] <murthy> yofel:  ubiquity/scripts/plugininstall.py                       line 1228
[12:16] <lordievader> Riddell: Ok, cool.
[12:17] <smartboyhw> Hmm why aren't the actives in Testdrive?
[12:17]  * smartboyhw files bugs
[12:18] <lordievader> Ohh nice, my multi-monitor setup is detected correctly in the live-env. Really nice!!!
[12:35] <smartboyhw> Why does it take so long to bzr branch ubuntu:digikam?
[12:37] <shadeslayer> why would you branch that
[12:38] <lordievader> The clock is not detected correctly in the live-env. It is set to UTC should be GMT+1. Should I report a bug, and if so, to what package?
[12:39] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, just to try with full code
[12:39] <smartboyhw> before using kubuntu-packaging
[12:39] <smartboyhw> And it turns out to be absolute crap UDD import
[12:39] <shadeslayer> well, usually we grab source from download.kde.org
[12:40] <shadeslayer> and packaging from bzr
[12:43] <smartboyhw> shadeslayer, yep
[12:44] <Darkwing> claydoh: ping
[12:55] <ScottK> apachelogger: Looks like just lack of reviewing.  Looking at it.
[12:59] <bkerensa> ScottK: Interesting FFE huh
[13:01] <murthy> lordievader: the package conyaininig the clock widget is plasma-widgets-workspace
[13:01] <murthy> lordievader: *containing 
[13:02] <lordievader> murthy: But is that the one responsible for looking up the time, during the installer it is detected correctly btw.
[13:03] <murthy> lordievader: that i don't know, i thought you were talking about the plasma-desktop
[13:04] <lordievader> murthy: I noted the time was wrong. A very minor bug.
[13:05] <murthy> lordievader: ok
[13:08] <murthy> bbl
[13:44] <apachelogger> kubotu: buildstatus jreen
[13:44] <kubotu> jreen:
[13:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: Done.
[13:47] <apachelogger> merci
[13:47] <apachelogger> markey, Mamarok: phonon gstreamer 463 in quantal-proposed for testing
[13:48] <apachelogger> markey, Mamarok: testing particularly need on bug 1115276 bug 1115270 bug 1115286 bug 1115277 bug 918688
[13:48] <markey> good
[13:49] <ScottK> apachelogger: Needs to build first.
[13:49] <apachelogger> true
[13:49] <apachelogger> markey, Mamarok^
[13:52] <smartboyhw> yofel, whoa the standards version for digikam is 3.8.4...
[13:52] <smartboyhw> VERY OLD
[13:54] <JontheEchidna> eh, 3.8.4 was the version right before 3.9.0
[13:55] <smartboyhw> Should I update?
[13:55] <smartboyhw> lintian screams it is ancient
[13:56] <JontheEchidna> usually for things like that we just stick with what Debian is using
[13:56] <smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, you mean latest version (3.9.4)?
[13:57] <JontheEchidna> whichever version debian is using for digikam right now, we'll stick with that
[13:57] <allee> smartboyhw: :-)  when you are at digikam, there are all those split out libs what are only used internal of digikam.  IMHO we should get rid of them (reducing complexity +  more as in debian distro)
[13:58] <smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, let me check
[13:58] <JontheEchidna> smartboyhw: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-kde/kde-extras/digikam/trunk/debian/control?revision=19375&view=markup
[13:59] <smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, so still 3.8.4 then
[13:59] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[13:59] <JontheEchidna> keeping them the same makes merging with debian easier
[13:59] <smartboyhw> Hmm I am ready to upload:P
[14:00] <smartboyhw> JontheEchidna, good work on Muon :)
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> :P
[14:03] <ScottK> smartboyhw: Never update standards version relative to Debian.
[14:13] <apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/l10n
[14:15] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, oh?
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: cool stuff
[14:18] <Sick_Rimmit> Darkwing: Hi  are you about ? could you help me with the Mumble server for a moment please ?
[14:21] <apachelogger> and of course konversation from archive is out of sync with bzr
[14:21] <apachelogger> -.-
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> lol
[14:24] <yofel> smartboyhw: note that the latest version of the ubuntu policy is 3.8.2, so that's really all we really need to support
[14:24] <yofel> otherwise do as jt said
[14:24] <JontheEchidna> https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+archive/qapt-experimental/+build/4366373 here we go again -.-
[14:26] <ScottK> yofel: No.  We don't use standards version.
[14:26] <ScottK> Just don't change it.
[14:27] <yofel> if that were the case the warning should be patched out on a distro level
[14:27] <yofel> It's not like we have any standards older than 3.8.2 I think anyway
[14:28] <yofel> and jt already made the point of not changing it
[14:28]  * apachelogger chnages yofel
[14:28]  * apachelogger also typos
[14:29]  * apachelogger congratulates JontheEchidna
[14:29]  * yofel is immutable
[14:31] <Darkwing> Sick_Rimmit: Give a few moments.
[14:32] <Sick_Rimmit> Darkwing: Of course, I'm very greatful for your assistance, please give me a nudge when youre ready
[14:32] <smartboyhw> Someone dget -x https://launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/+archive/ppa/+files/digikam_3.1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc and upload please:)
[14:34] <yofel> smartboyhw: I'll sponsor from bzr
[14:35] <smartboyhw> Whoa how come Kubuntu Active uses Ubuntu boot screen!?
[14:35] <yofel> smartboyhw: please set version as UNRELEASED in bzr until it's uploaded
[14:35] <yofel> next time
[14:36] <smartboyhw> yofel, sorry then
[14:36] <yofel> it helps in tracking what's uploaded and what not
[14:36] <yofel> also it influences dch
[14:36] <smartboyhw> OK
[14:36] <Riddell> smartboyhw: cos nobody has been bothered to fix it
[14:36] <smartboyhw> Riddell, ........
[14:36] <smartboyhw> :P
[14:37]  * yofel wonders why the watch file doesn't work again *-.-
[14:37] <smartboyhw> yofel, ....
[14:38] <yofel> actually nevermind
[14:38] <yofel> I don't understand uscan -.-
[14:38] <smartboyhw> yofel, paste the watch file:)
[14:38] <yofel> smartboyhw: it works, I don't
[14:38] <smartboyhw> yofel, !?
[14:39] <smartboyhw> ........
[14:39] <yofel> smartboyhw: it works fine, I used it wrong
[14:39] <smartboyhw> yofel, ah <.>
[14:46] <Darkwing> Sick_Rimmit: ping
[14:46] <Sick_Rimmit> Darkwing: Hi awesome
[14:47] <Darkwing> Sick_Rimmit: Have you setup your mic yet>
[14:47] <Sick_Rimmit> Darkwing: I hink I have Mumble set up and functioning and was wondering if you could help me test it for a sec
[14:47] <Darkwing> ?
[15:01] <apachelogger> Darkwing: what's kylin?
[15:02] <Riddell> an ubuntu flavour for china
[15:02] <Darkwing> From what I found, it is the Ubuntu Chinese Group. Daniel Holbach added me to that email. 
[15:02] <Darkwing> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin
[15:02] <apachelogger> nice
[15:02]  * smartboyhw is doing QA for UbuntuKylin too:P
[15:03] <Riddell> smartboyhw: is there any flavour you're not helping with? :)
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Riddell, Mythbuntu...... Ubuntu GNOME...... Lubuntu.... Xubuntu (got into conflict)....
[15:04] <smartboyhw> I work on three:P
[15:05] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABYnqp-bxvg
[15:05] <apachelogger> anyone knows why we do not have an animated wallpaper?
[15:05] <smartboyhw> apachelogger, we never thought of it?:P
[15:06]  * apachelogger thought of it plenty
[15:06] <apachelogger> also for the past 2 years I ask this question regularly
[15:06] <Darkwing> Why not?
[15:06] <Darkwing> I do remember you asking alot.
[15:06] <smartboyhw> Dunno. I am new here:P
[15:06] <Darkwing> I have not played with building one... maybe I should.
[15:07] <apachelogger> playing with things is how software is built :P
[15:07] <smartboyhw> +1
[15:08] <Riddell> apachelogger: because it's distracting and annoying?
[15:08] <apachelogger> how so?
[15:08] <apachelogger> I don't want a prn movie in the background
[15:08] <apachelogger> but a subtle animated wallpaper
[15:08] <yofel> waste of CPU power?
[15:09] <yofel> unless you freeze it on battery
[15:09] <Darkwing> apachelogger: What were you thinking of for animation?
[15:09] <apachelogger> yofel: backlight uses more power than that...
[15:10] <apachelogger> Darkwing: depends on the wallpaper I'd assuem
[15:10] <yofel> apachelogger: yes, but it would *additionally* use power
[15:10] <Darkwing> apachelogger: For the sake of argument, if we were to create this beauty... 
[15:10] <apachelogger> yofel: tht argument is so wrong it makes kittens cry
[15:11] <apachelogger> shouldn't have ktp plasmoid in the tray by that reasoning
[15:11] <yofel> I would just like to not have to kill 2 dozen useless things to increase battery life in the end
[15:11] <apachelogger> or desktop effects on by default
[15:11] <yofel> desktop effects off actually doesn't save much these days
[15:11] <Darkwing> ohhhhhhh this would be so purdy in the installer. https://plus.google.com/118397397518576656139/posts/J9G2MKgpwsC
[15:12] <apachelogger> yofel: orly
[15:12] <Darkwing> Maybe add "effects off" in the power menu when on battery? 
[15:12] <apachelogger> yofel: so the argument is we can leave effects on by default because it wouldn't save much to turn them off but we cannot have an appealing desktop because having an ugly desktop doesn't save much?
[15:13] <apachelogger> Darkwing: yofel is right
[15:13] <apachelogger> his argument is just bullshit
[15:13] <markey> animated background sounds nice
[15:13] <markey> a subtle and slow animation
[15:13] <markey> not too distracting
[15:13] <apachelogger> aye
[15:13] <Darkwing> Okay... what is allowed for Kubuntu backgrounds?
[15:13]  * Darkwing goes to investigate this
[15:13] <apachelogger> anything?
[15:13] <yofel> *sigh* - I don't feel like arguing. Just keep it simple at least
[15:14] <apachelogger> as I see it anything that can be done with qml is in the mix of possibilities
[15:14] <Darkwing> I'm not going as fat as to promote the animated as default...
[15:14] <markey> yep
[15:14] <Darkwing> Backgrounds can be *.png *.jpeg *.jpg *.xcf *.svg *.svgz *.bmp if we go with an image
[15:14] <apachelogger> jpg, pn, bmp, svg at least
[15:15] <apachelogger> (svg limited support)
[15:15] <apachelogger> what you want to do is build the wallpaper through qml though
[15:15] <Darkwing> Or, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APNG
[15:15] <Darkwing> But yes, qml would prolly look better
[15:16] <apachelogger> qml, everything else would be freaky :P
[15:16] <Darkwing> Prolly be smoother in QML
[15:16] <apachelogger> so for example with the aryia thing we had in quantal (the grey one with the stripes) you'd have the grey as actual background image and then position/paint the stripes ontop of it using qml
[15:16] <apachelogger> then have the stripes move a bit or something
[15:17] <Darkwing> I'd love the new wallpaper in raring to slowly twist like strands of plasma
[15:18] <markey> is there no standard for animated wallpapers, like on Android?
[15:19] <Darkwing> Not that I know of... there should be... LiveWallpaper in Android is a good place to start.
[15:24] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: bug 1154630
[15:25] <apachelogger> markey: what do you mean by standard?
[15:26] <shadeslayer> mmm
[15:26] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: FWIW I think the bug is inval, because it is a runtime decision and at runtime at the very least alsa is needed
[15:26] <apachelogger> e.g. if pulseaudio is defunct it will need a fallback
[15:26] <shadeslayer> sounds about right
[15:27] <apachelogger> so at the very best it could be depends alsa, recommends pa
[15:27] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: please be throwing your opinion on
[15:27] <apachelogger> I always get a weird feeling when working on bugs that I have an upstream opinion on
[15:28] <shadeslayer> shouldn't it be depending on both PA and ALSA
[15:28] <shadeslayer> because AFAIK it using PA right now
[15:29] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: I also need an opinion on where my code will need merging
[15:29] <yofel> how about recommending -alsa?
[15:29] <shadeslayer> is VGO still needed in master
[15:29] <apachelogger> hm
[15:29] <shadeslayer> plz be emailing plan to kde-multimedia ML
[15:29] <shadeslayer> so I know definitively
[15:29] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: merge into master and exclude VGO from build when building against gst1
[15:30] <shadeslayer> I see
[15:30] <shadeslayer> fine with me
[15:30] <shadeslayer> should I put it up for review
[15:30] <shadeslayer> or just go ahead and merge it
[15:30] <apachelogger> oh and put a warning somewhere
[15:31] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: whatever you feel is best
[15:31] <shadeslayer> mm okay
[15:31] <apachelogger> yofel: from my limited upstream POV that is wrong there is a hard dependency on alsa andor oss andor other random driver thingy
[15:32] <apachelogger> i.e. a setup where pgst can only play to PA but not to alsa is a broken setup whenver PA is broken
[15:32] <apachelogger> and the phonon idea is to avoid having broken setups as much as possible
[15:33] <shadeslayer> bbiab
[15:33] <apachelogger> but that is why I don't feel comfortable working on ubuntu phonon bugs :P
[15:33] <yofel> well, with recommends it would still be installed usually
[15:33] <apachelogger> "usually"
[15:33] <yofel> and usually pulse will work fine too
[15:33] <apachelogger> "usually"
[15:34] <apachelogger> yofel: i fail to see the point of the request tbh
[15:35] <apachelogger> the user gets nothing from this other than the ability to deinstall a tiny package that is really a runtime requirement
[15:35] <yofel> well, the argumentation is as much bullshit as mine earlier
[15:35] <apachelogger> hum
[15:35] <apachelogger> #5  0x00007f44df3b5508 in ResourcesModel::resourceByPackageName(QString const&) () from /usr/lib/libmuonprivate.so.1
[15:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: does .97 require new libqapt?
[15:35] <apachelogger> yofel: how so?
[15:36] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: nope
[15:36] <apachelogger> why is it going kaput then :(
[15:36] <yofel> apachelogger: "remove -alsa because it can use both"
[15:37] <yofel> from a package dependency definition POV it makes sense
[15:37] <apachelogger> not sure it does
[15:38] <apachelogger> it is a runtime decision whether alsa is used or PA is used
[15:38] <yofel> Recommends are supposed to be installed on all but unusual configurations
[15:38] <yofel> yeah, but does it *require* alsa?
[15:38] <yofel> it can just use pulse
[15:38] <yofel> otherwise we can as well argument that both gstreamer and vlc backend should always be installed
[15:40] <apachelogger> no
[15:40] <yofel> why?
[15:40] <apachelogger> architecturally what happens is that phonon prepares to use alsa
[15:41] <apachelogger> then the PA support gets initalized and that decides on runtime whether it will intercept backend calls and direct them at PA instead
[15:41] <apachelogger> depend on that it will either set the alsasink or the pulsesink
[15:41] <apachelogger> on a technical level it always sets the alsasink though, only on some conditions it will set the pulsesink
[15:41] <yofel> hm...
[15:41] <apachelogger> with backends it's in fact an either or
[15:42] <apachelogger> you either use vlc or gstreamer
[15:42] <apachelogger> if you have both installed and one is defunct there is no mechanism that will switch you to the other backend
[15:42] <yofel> true, that essentially reverses the situation to dep-alsa, recommend-pulse. Except that pulse should always be used currently
[15:43] <apachelogger> but the gst stuff is really a policy decision on distro level
[15:43] <apachelogger> due to the way it is designed you can in fact have pulsesink installed without alsasink
[15:43] <apachelogger> BUT
[15:44] <apachelogger> if phonon decides not to use the PA overlay for whatever reason the setup is broken
[15:45] <apachelogger> and ubuntu in general goes to great lengths to retain semi-working sound even if PA is broken/defunct, so from my POV not doing that with pgst seems wrong
[15:45] <apachelogger> yofel: dep-alsa, recommend-pulse is what it should I guess
[15:45] <apachelogger> but as I said, I suspect the user wants to actively remove alsasink for some reason, so that would not really help him :P
[15:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: oh well, I think I broke my moun ^^
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> heh
[16:01] <apachelogger> purged libmuonprivate reinstalled installer still crashy though
[16:01] <Riddell> this sony netboot I got to test uefi has to be the most random machine for booting ever.  this morning is gave me a grub menu and could boot ubuntu but not windows, when I try to put in a usb drive to testkubuntu it says operating system not found.  not the grub menu no longer shows and it boots straight into windows
[16:02] <apachelogger> lol
[16:18]  * genii-around blames Sony
[16:21] <Riddell> pirates
[16:29] <blaze> well, qtwebkit 2.3.0 was finally added to repos
[16:29] <blaze> and it's so <censored> buggy
[16:31] <blaze> did someone test it?
[16:34] <Riddell> blaze: what problems do you have?
[16:34] <blaze> crashes
[16:34] <Riddell> lots of crashes on Kubuntu Active in kwin still (currently testing)
[16:34] <Riddell> shadeslayer: hard to test this since you turned off the mouse cursor!
[16:42] <Riddell> blaze: crashes using rekonq?
[16:42] <claydoh> Darkwing: pong
[16:43] <blaze> Riddel: doesn't matter qupzilla or rekonq
[16:43] <Riddell> ooh a claydoh
[16:43] <Riddell> claydoh: fancy doing the beta 1 notes?
[16:44] <claydoh> Riddell: ya sucks that there are so few of them ;)
[16:45] <blaze> Riddell: the source of the problem is destructor JSC::CopyWorkList::~CopyWorkList() in JS Core
[16:46] <claydoh> Riddell: sure, I can get to it this evening
[16:46] <Riddell> blaze: so I'd think it needs testing with 2.3 RC packages which will be after beta 1 then moaning to upstream
[16:46] <Darkwing> claydoh: can add/remove moderators/admins on the Kubuntu G+ page?
[16:46] <Riddell> s/moaning/reporting a bug/
[16:46] <kubotu> Riddell meant: "blaze: so I'd think it needs testing with 2.3 RC packages which will be after beta 1 then reporting a bug to upstream"
[16:47] <Riddell> Darkwing: hmm I think I'm an admin there am I not?
[16:47] <claydoh> Darkwing: no, the owner iirc is the one for that, the mysterious "Kubuntu" 
[16:47]  * Darkwing sighs
[16:48]  * claydoh looks
[16:48] <Darkwing> We really need to have the council hold the power behind the social media pages.
[16:48] <Riddell> Darkwing: would be great to have all our social media stuff documented
[16:48] <claydoh> ping him/her
[16:48] <Darkwing> Riddell: I'm working on it.
[16:48] <Darkwing> And I'll send out an email to the users/devel lists trying to grab that.
[16:49]  * claydoh regrets not establishing the kubuntu g+ page and the g+ kubuntu community thingy, he wasn't fast enough heh
[16:49] <Darkwing> It's okay.
[16:50] <Darkwing> I'm working with Canonical Legal to get us control of the @kubuntu twitter account right now.
[16:50] <Riddell> the google+ guy was in here once, it'll be in the irc logs
[16:50] <Riddell> Darkwing: any ideas about kubuntu_news?
[16:50] <Riddell> must be related to the website somehow
[16:51] <claydoh> I have had minimal contact with the person on G+ but hw was responsive to my suggestions on the community page for descriptions and the like
[16:51] <Riddell> and I've no idea what our facebook story is like
[16:51] <Darkwing> I still think at a minimum the council should control the direct Kubuntu name spaces on them. Or, the Council appoint a social media person with all 6 members of the council having the password and access.
[16:52] <Darkwing> I'm not on Facebook but, I can look into it too.
[16:52] <Riddell> you're not on facebook?  is that possible?
[16:53] <Darkwing> I deleted it about a month ago.
[16:53] <Darkwing> :D
[16:54] <mikhas> I'd travel to any place in the world without fear, but I don't whether I am brave enough to delete my FB …
[16:56] <Riddell> gosh I have lovely fast fibre optic connection here but I do recoil slightly at the thought of downloading 4.4GB just to try out opensuse 12.3
[17:03] <claydoh> Riddell: I am downloading the kde disk now, about 1gb. I haven't installed a non-*buntu os in quite a while, not counting Haiku
[17:11] <mck182> Riddell: is there a way to update to latest raring from quantal?
[17:11] <Riddell> mck182: kubuntu-devel-release-upgrade
[17:12] <mck182> cool, thanks
[17:12] <Riddell> mck182: then report on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39515/testcases
[17:12] <mck182> ok
[17:13] <mck182> Riddell: erm... http://paste.kde.org/695240/
[17:17] <Riddell> erm indeed
[17:17] <Riddell> Mamarok: yofel: you tested that?
[17:17] <yofel> worked in qemu
[17:18] <yofel> mck182: what's your version of python3-distupgrade?
[17:19] <mck182> yofel: 1:0.190.3
[17:19] <mck182> oh it's upgradeable
[17:19] <yofel> should be .5 at least
[17:19]  * mck182 updates
[17:20] <mck182> yofel Riddell: updating the python3-distupgrade fixed things \o/
[17:20] <mck182> thanks
[17:21] <Mamarok> Riddell: I tested the upgrade, yes
[17:22]  * mck182 crosses fingers
[17:22] <yofel> Riddell: on that note, we don't have any upgrade option in ubiquity, do we?
[17:22] <Riddell> mck182: useful to know
[17:22] <yofel> that test case should probably be removed until we do
[17:22] <xnox> yofel: it's for the best, trust me.
[17:22] <yofel> xnox: the upgrade option missing? ^^
[17:23] <xnox> yofel: most lickely it failed to initialise that option, but it is _there_.
[17:23] <Riddell> yofel: no we don't, I guess that's a leacy from alternate CDs
[17:23] <yofel> xnox: I rather think our UI doesn't even look for it
[17:23] <yofel> unless someone added code for it
[17:23] <xnox> Riddell: ubiquity can "upgrade", by doing selective find -delete & slapping new files on top & loads of hope and duct tape for this to work.
[17:23] <yofel> Riddell: according to the test case, that's supposed to be for ubiquity
[17:24] <yofel> lol
[17:26] <Mamarok> Riddell: I guess that missing package is no fixed, no use rreporting, right?
[17:26] <Mamarok> now*
[17:30] <Riddell> Mamarok: yes, thanks
[17:30] <Mamarok> OK, I reported my findings
[17:31] <Mamarok> and seriously, they want an URL for hardware profiles, where are those?
[17:31] <Mamarok> no information whatsoever
[17:33] <yofel> Mamarok: nothing special. Just put the output of lshw on paste.ubuntu.com and link to that for example
[17:33] <yofel> or say whatever VM you were using
[17:33] <Riddell> xnox, yofel: oh it'll be an option in the partition "Installation type" page which isn't implemented
[17:33] <Mamarok> right, that should be mentioned somewhere
[17:39] <agateau> Riddell: is the daily iso in a good shape for a fresh install?
[17:41] <Riddell> agateau: iso tracker reports several successful installs and no fails
[17:41] <Riddell> agateau: so do give it a try
[17:42] <agateau> Riddell: ok thanks
[17:42] <Riddell> agateau: worth trying an oem install though, that's where some ubiquity issues appear
[17:42] <agateau> Riddell: how do I do thatN
[17:42] <agateau> *that?
[17:44] <Riddell> agateau: press F6 at the initial ISO boot menu
[17:44] <Riddell> I think
[17:44] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[17:44] <Riddell> one of the F keys anyway
[17:45] <agateau> Riddell: are those bugs caused by my changes?
[17:45] <Riddell> agateau: yeah I think so
[17:45] <agateau> damn
[17:45] <Riddell> nothing that makes it unusable
[17:46] <Riddell> bug 1154535
[17:46] <Riddell> is one of them
[17:46] <Riddell> also no slideshow and no background
[17:47] <Riddell> trying ubuntu-gnome here, it does seem to work perfectly well, no idea what the word Activities is doing in the top left corner, seems to be a start menu
[17:48] <Riddell> web browser not very prominant, firefox is there but not in the first level of links, maybe they're ashamed of not using a gnome web browser
[17:49] <agateau> ok
[18:02] <lordievader> Good evening
[18:07] <Riddell> hi lordievader 
[18:08] <lordievader> Hey Riddell, how are you?
[18:34] <Riddell> lordievader: I'm great thanks but just going out
[18:35] <lordievader> Riddell: Ok, have fun!
[18:49] <phoenix_firebrd> yofel: pm?
[18:49] <yofel> sure
[19:01] <Noskcaj>  has anything happened towards getting bug 1066223 fixed?
[19:01] <Noskcaj> http://oi48.tinypic.com/2znyecy.jpg this happened in yesterday's install
[19:04] <phoenix_firebrd> Noskcaj:  lordievader was testing images, he came across time related issue today, seems the bug is not fixed
[19:05] <Noskcaj> phoenix_firebrd, ok, thanks. i son't think anyone knows how it can be fixed
[19:05] <lordievader> True, I'm at GMT+1, UTC was detected in the live-env. During the install the correct time was detected however.
[19:05] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: did you comment in the bug report?
[19:06] <Noskcaj> i think it's different bugs
[19:06] <Noskcaj> mine detected sydney, but said adelaide instead (i.e. the time was correct still)
[19:07] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Believe I did in the test report, didn't know to what package I should report the bug.
[19:08] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: why not ubiquity?
[19:09] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Because it ain't ubiquity (or so I think) it's in the live-environment, so earlier a casper bug. Ubiquity isn't responsible for setting up the live-environment right?
[19:10] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: ya
[19:10] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: did ask agateau ?
[19:11] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: did you ask him?
[19:11] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Sorry do you mean Ubiquity is repsonsible for setting up the live-environment?
[19:12] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: you mean to ask the live session ?
[19:12] <xnox> I'm confused why is bug 1066223 discussed at all.
[19:12] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: Yes, in there the clock-widget reports the wrong time (UTC)
[19:12] <lordievader> xnox: That is why I didn't report it, too minor...
[19:13] <xnox> It's a bug in the kde_ui for ubiquity, as the geoip is overly precise, yet the drop down chooses / shows the first matching timezone
[19:13] <xnox> and there are a few cities in australian daylight saving time which have the same time as sydney.
[19:14] <lordievader> xnox: My bug is slightly different, but still too minor, imo.
[19:14] <xnox> phoenix_firebrd: the bug is visible / present in the ubiquity screen =) so it is a bug in ubiquity ;-)
[19:14] <xnox> lordievader: what's your bug?
[19:14] <phoenix_firebrd> xnox: so now i know you i get the kde got page in russian everytime
[19:14] <phoenix_firebrd> xnox: *git
[19:15] <phoenix_firebrd> xnox: thanks thats what i said to lordievader
[19:15] <lordievader> xnox: In the live-environment (live-session) the clock-widget reports UTC time, while my time zone is GMT+1
[19:15] <xnox> lordievader: sure, cause we don't change that. It's showing bios clock time which should most of the time match utc.
[19:15] <lordievader> But it's the live-session not the installer!
[19:16] <xnox> lordievader: it's a live / demo session, nothing is customized in it.
[19:16] <lordievader> xnox: As I said too minor. We shouldn't be wasting out time on it...
[19:16] <xnox> that's expected it's just a plain stock desktop with no changes applied to defaults, no settings changed.
[19:18] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: there is grammatical mistake in this page http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2znyecy&s=6
[19:19] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: the sentence starts with 'or'
[19:21] <xnox> phoenix_firebrd: a guy from new zealand wrote that text =)
[19:21] <phoenix_firebrd> xnox: :)
[19:22] <lordievader> phoenix_firebrd: For correct English you shouldn't address me, I'm not a native speaker.
[19:22] <phoenix_firebrd> lordievader: me too
[19:24] <maco> And/Or/But at the beginning of a sentence is something that can be a stylistic choice. it's usually taught as "incorrect" to prevent overuse and sentence-fragments, but one of the things about being a great writer is knowing the rules well enough to know when to break them
[19:24] <maco> (or painter or designer or...)
[19:24] <maco> there are a lot of things taught in English classes as "wrong" that are really matters of style
[19:25] <maco> passive voice is "wrong," now let's sit down and read a bunch of Shakespeare!  of course, Shakespeare is full of passive voice
[19:25] <maco> the prejudice against passive voice is only 100 years old, comes from a single writing book, and that writing book can't even get it right when it comes to what does or does not qualify as passive voice
[19:26] <murthy> maco: wow what an artisitc explanation 
[19:26] <murthy> maco: its true
[19:26] <mck182> Riddell: the upgrade went pleasantly well...good job :)
[19:35] <soee> can someone take a look:
[19:35] <soee> Przetwarzanie wyzwalaczy pakietu initramfs-tools...
[19:35] <soee> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-21-generic
[19:35] <soee> modprobe: ../tools/modprobe.c:550: print_action: Assertion `kmod_module_get_initstate(m) == KMOD_MODULE_BUILTIN' failed.
[19:35] <soee> Aborted (core dumped)
[19:39] <yofel> known issue, won't cause any problems
[20:33] <keithzg_> I see for example at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/U+1/iso-testing-qa#Step_2:_Hardware_Profile that I should be able to submit a hardware profile, but I seem to be unable to figure out what actual utility/program I'd do so with.
[20:37] <keithzg_> oh, I see above that the output of lshw is good enough :)
[20:39] <yofel> mostly, but I don't know how to use checkbox ;)
[20:39] <yofel> #ubuntu-quality might know
[20:44] <keithzg_> heh fair enough
[21:00] <keithzg_> Aha, as long as I run any test with checkbox-qt and submit with the e-mail I use for Launchpad the fingerprint ends up linked at https://launchpad.net/~keithzg/+hwdb-submissions
[21:01] <yofel> interesting
[21:05] <Letozaf_> Hello, I'm Carla and I am testing Kubuntu Active on Virtualbox VM, I would like to know if it's ok to not see the mouse pointer in the VM
[21:05] <ScottK> Riddell or shadeslayer ^^^
[21:06]  * ScottK would think you should see it, but doesn't actually know.
[21:06] <Letozaf_> the fact is that you do not know where you're clicking 
[21:07] <Letozaf_> so it's hard to test this way on a VM
[21:08] <ScottK> No doubt.
[21:08] <Letozaf_> you mean it's better not to test this ISO on a VM ?
[21:12] <keithzg_> Letozaf_: I think he just means it's undeniably hard to test when you can't see the mouse ;)
[21:15] <Letozaf_> ok, I thought that maybe this ISO could be tested also on a VM, but doesn't seem so
[21:16] <shadeslayer> oh bleh
[21:17] <shadeslayer> the standard setting is to not show the pointer
[21:17] <shadeslayer> I guess it doesn't work out too good if you're not using a actual touch device
[21:21] <Letozaf_> no it's a bit hard to
[21:22] <yofel> shadeslayer: can't you switch that at run-time? or is that hardcoded somewhere?
[21:22] <yofel> (or does it need a session restart?)
[21:23] <lordievader> Kscreen is broken again: Cannot load library /usr/lib/kde4/kcm_randr.so wront ELF class: ELFCLASS32. The package kde-workspace-randr is installed and up to date.
[21:23] <yofel> lordievader: 64bit system?
[21:23] <yofel> that's not kscreen though
[21:24] <lordievader> yofel: Yes 64bit screen, oh thought it was. Anyhow it's broken, worked yesterday again :(
[21:24] <lordievader> 64bit system*
[21:24] <shadeslayer> yofel: probably with a config file for active
[21:24] <shadeslayer> by changing the mouse theme
[21:25] <yofel> ah
[21:25] <shadeslayer> its just a mouse theme
[21:25] <yofel> lordievader: is kde-workspace-randr or kde-workspace-randr:i386 installed?
[21:28] <lordievader> yofel: apt-get install kde-workspace-randr says it is the newest version, I think kde-workspace-randr is installed. Today lots of kde-workspace packages were updated perhaps it is that?
[21:28] <yofel> not really, wrong ELF class means wrong architecture o.O
[21:28] <yofel> wait
[21:28] <yofel> eeeehhhh
[21:29] <yofel> lordievader: packaging issue, thanks for noticing
[21:29] <yofel> -randr is arch all, not any
[21:29] <lordievader> yofel: Ah ok. No problem.
[21:29] <lordievader> I started to think it was related to muon, usually update through apt-get, today I update through muon to test something.
[21:30] <yofel> ScottK: can I upload workspace to fix this without causing an image respin? Or should it simply wait till tomorrow?
[21:30] <ScottK> yofel: You can upload.  Transitions to the release pocket are blocked.
[21:30] <yofel> ok
[21:31] <keithzg> Letozaf_: In case you haven't found it, just hit alt+f2 and type in "cursor", should pop up with the cursor theme switcher and you can switch it to any other theme so as to be visible.
[21:32] <Letozaf_> keithzg, oh thank you I will try this way!
[21:40] <Letozaf_> keithzg, great, thanks it works!
[21:41] <keithzg> Letozaf_: No problem :)
[21:55] <yofel> grrrrr, some updates today really want me to install gnome-control-center
[21:56] <ScottK> yofel: Figure out which one and let's fix it.
[21:59] <yofel> nvm, I had network-manager-gnome installed for some reason. So that just leaves bug 1154218 from yesterday
[22:24] <shadeslayer> yofel: how goes auto-upgrade-tester ?
[22:26] <yofel> didn't have time to look at it today - LXC still doesn't work though
[22:33] <shadeslayer> okay
[22:34] <yofel> let's give qemu another try
[22:38] <yofel> Exception AttributeError: "'UpgradeTestBackendQemu' object has no attribute 'ssh_lock'" in <bound method UpgradeTestBackendQemu.__del__ of <AutoUpgradeTester.UpgradeTestBackendQemu.UpgradeTestBackendQemu object at 0x7f6f47755c90>> ignored
[22:38] <yofel> fun
[22:38] <yofel> and it's missing the PAE workaround
[22:38] <yofel> , stderr: grep: /proc/cpuinfo: No such file or directory
[22:48] <ScottK> Riddell: ktp-desktop-applets in New for you.
[22:59] <yofel> hm... now qemu seems to work
[22:59] <yofel> if you're ok with it being quite slow and requiring a Gib of memory
[23:02] <shadeslayer> doesn't sound something I can put on my VPS :p
[23:03] <Kris_away> 1GB VPS is cheap these days :P $7 or so :P
[23:04] <shadeslayer> I pay 15 USD for my VPS, for an entire year
[23:04] <shadeslayer> now beat that ;)
[23:04] <shadeslayer> but it doesn't have alot of memory
[23:04] <Kris_away> I have a VPS with 100GB storage for $20 a year...
[23:04] <Kris_away> 256MB of ram
[23:05] <shadeslayer> oh, that soulds super cheap
[23:05] <shadeslayer> which hoster?
[23:05] <Kris_away> 24k, it was a special offer
[23:05] <shadeslayer> ( and sounds like a better deal than BuyVM )
[23:05] <Kris_away> BuyVM... I've had problems with them
[23:05] <yofel> 15G storage would be enough, but 1GiB of RAM would really be good, 512M + swap would be too slow I think
[23:05] <yofel> unless that's ssd swap, which would be freakin's expensive
[23:06] <Kris_away> swap is evil and should not be used
[23:06] <shadeslayer> well, if we can use LXC, we won't use alot of RAM
[23:06] <shadeslayer> and 256 MB's would be enough
[23:06] <apachelogger> swap is le important
[23:06] <yofel> yeah, we'll need to figure that grub thing out though
[23:07] <yofel> or maybe work around it by adding some PPA with that file missing
[23:07] <shadeslayer> hm
[23:07] <yofel> or not
[23:07] <Kris_away> http://www.lowendtalk.com/categories/offers Has great VPS deals, although a lot of the hosts are pretty hokey lol
[23:07] <yofel> as I think it's the upgraded file that fails
[23:07] <shadeslayer> hokey?
[23:07]  * shadeslayer looks that up
[23:07] <Kris_away> as in... cheap 1-kid things
[23:08] <shadeslayer> ah
[23:08] <Kris_away> Although some are really good 1-man ops, guys running it as their full job with a lot of experience
[23:09] <Kris_away> But some are run by kids who got their first copy of cpanel,whmcs, and solus...
[23:10] <Kris_away> My host can't spell but knows advanced networking... 
[23:11] <Kris_away> People go crazy about the memory usage of KDE... but it's not that bad when you multitask, it doesn't grow much since a lot of stuff is already in mem
[23:12] <apachelogger> people go crazy because they don't understand memory management on linux
[23:12] <Kris_away> people need to stop using top and use htop lol
[23:13] <shadeslayer> heh
[23:13] <Kris_away> I should propose that... remove top from the stock isos, alias to htop
[23:14] <Kris_away> suddenly nubs stop... and people who use top complain instead lol
[23:15] <apachelogger> can't remove top without changeing procps
[23:15] <apachelogger> top is not packaged separately
[23:19] <dmatt> hi, where are those 13.04 Beta 1 ISOs from topic, which need testing ?
[23:20] <yofel> dmatt: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds
[23:21] <dmatt> yofel: thanks
[23:23] <Kris_away> I got my iso from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/ 2 days ago, everything worked except for muon, but after i updated... haven't had any other problems
[23:36] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: "This will massively increase the space requirements of the PPAs, and prevent you from ever copying the binaries into the primary archive. Do you still want ddebs enabled?"
[23:37] <shadeslayer> re ddebs for kubuntu-ppa and kubuntu-ninjas
[23:39] <apachelogger> yes? lol? ScottK?
[23:39] <apachelogger> what do I care about the space the PPA requires :O
[23:40] <ScottK> Why did we want ddebs?
[23:40] <apachelogger> so we can ditch -dbg packages
[23:40] <shadeslayer> please be commenting on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/223829
[23:41] <apachelogger> 500 per-app-source-packages = 1000 binary packages = 500 pointless install files...
[23:41] <apachelogger> -dbg is IMO not a durable approach in the long run
[23:41] <ScottK> Right, but it's what Debian is using, so if we start dropping them, it's a massive diff.
[23:42] <ScottK> Not much per package, but it adds up.
[23:42] <apachelogger> valorie: bug 1115276 bug 1115270 bug 1115286 bug 1115277 bug 918688
[23:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: iff debian ever gets around to package the 500 upstream source packages.... :P
[23:43] <ScottK> Actually svurolea (or whatever his nick is) said he'd be doing 4.10 for Debian later this month under some consulting contract.
[23:43] <ScottK> So soon ....
[23:43] <shadeslayer> oooh
[23:43] <shadeslayer> awesome
[23:44] <valorie> danke, apachelogger
[23:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: dunno then, don't care about debugging particularly this cycle