[00:04] <yofel> Profile 'share/profiles/kubuntu' worked
[00:04] <shadeslayer> \o/
[00:04] <yofel> shadeslayer: ^ - so qemu works fine
[00:04] <yofel> if you have the hardware for it
[00:04] <shadeslayer> nope ;)
[00:05] <shadeslayer> LXC is our only chance 
[00:05] <shadeslayer> s/chance/option/
[00:05] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "LXC is our only option"
[00:06] <Kris_away> I use KVM and virtualbox... qemu is useful for emulating non-x86 arches though, although  a raspberry pi is so cheap for ARM.
[00:06] <shadeslayer> I'd run it on my own computer, but my download speed isn't too great
[00:06] <shadeslayer> unless I cache the packages
[00:06] <yofel> I'm running on my server here right now, which could be used at least for milestone tests
[00:07] <shadeslayer> hmm
[00:07] <Kris_away> heh, too bad there's no easy way to cache an apt repo for local use
[00:07] <shadeslayer> heh, apt-cacher-ng ;)
[00:07]  * yofel has no idea how to use apt-cacher-ng
[00:07] <yofel> and apt-mirror would be far too heavy
[00:07] <shadeslayer> except I don't know how to use it either
[00:08]  * yofel goes trying to upgrade in LXC by hand
[00:08] <yofel> you would only need to cache raring though. The quantal base image is cached after initial installation
[00:09] <shadeslayer> hm
[00:09] <shadeslayer> it's probably a 100G's right?
[00:09] <shadeslayer> plus, I could use tmpfs
[00:09] <shadeslayer> 5 minute upgrade ;)
[00:11] <shadeslayer> time to ask stgraber how to set it up locally
[00:11] <shadeslayer> using apt-cacher-ng
[00:26] <Kris_away> kate does not like it when you open a 130MB bin with it lol
[00:28] <Riddell> Kris_away: I think even emacs would get grumpy at that
[00:28] <Kris_away> knowig emacs someone made a plugin for that
[00:30] <Kris_away> soo... amd's bets drivers have the ability to generate raring packages... yay
[00:30] <shadeslayer> yofel: did you figure out how to make it run in tmpfs?
[00:30] <yofel> what? qemu?
[00:30] <shadeslayer> LXC
[00:30] <yofel> uh... that was the default behaviour
[00:31] <shadeslayer> ph
[00:31] <shadeslayer> oh
[00:31] <shadeslayer> it was?
[00:31] <Riddell> apachelogger, murthy: ktp applets, jreen and qtweet in
[00:31] <yofel> that's why it was failing here, as the fs was too small
[00:31] <shadeslayer> oh, I don't have tmpfs on my system yet
[00:31] <yofel> on your system just set UseTmpfs=yes in default.cfg
[00:31] <shadeslayer> so it automounts the LXC dir to tmpfs?
[00:32] <shadeslayer> I don't have to meddle with fstab?
[00:32] <yofel> it mounts the cow dir as tmpfs, then puts an overlayfs ontop of that
[00:32] <yofel> nah, you don't need to do anything usually
[00:33] <shadeslayer> cool
[00:33]  * shadeslayer will try out LXC locall
[00:33] <shadeslayer> *locally
[00:33] <yofel> just that the current default is not to use tmpfs
[00:33] <yofel> shadeslayer: for the upgrader that is
[00:33] <shadeslayer> okay
[00:34] <yofel> if you use lxc manually, there's lxc-start-ephemeral to use a tmpfs
[00:34] <shadeslayer> ah
[00:37] <yofel> when using lxc you actually get 2 layers of caching. First lxc caches the debootstrap image in /var/cache/lxc, then the os is installed in /var/lib/lxc/<name>, then the upgrader goes and uses overlayfs to redirect <name>/rootfs to <name>/cow
[00:37] <shadeslayer> neat :D
[00:38] <Kris_away> Is lxc easy to use? I never have used it... I use virtualbox, xen, openvz, kvm... real men run their experimental software as root on their production box. lol
[00:39] <yofel> if all you need is a terminal it's trivial.
[00:39] <yofel> X is still something I have to figure out
[00:39] <yofel> if I could run xephyr from LXC that would be like perfect
[00:40] <Kris_away> I run things as very restricted users... good enough but not the best in some cases
[00:41] <claydoh> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RaringRingtail/Beta1/Kubuntu
[00:42] <claydoh> anyone, please add any relevent items to the known issues, if needed.
[00:44] <Riddell> claydoh: awooga
[00:44] <Riddell> I think ubiquity and kscreen would be nice screenshots to have
[00:44] <Riddell> worth checking the seeds for other changes
[00:44] <Riddell> Plasma Active 3
[00:45] <Riddell> I'll do that before release anyway, too late tonight
[00:45] <claydoh> if i can get some screenshots,
[00:45] <shadeslayer> anyone on quantal?
[00:45] <claydoh> yes it is late, darn shift work
[00:49] <claydoh> going to bed at 9pm must be some sort of sacrilege as is going in to work @ 0400 after leaving @ 1900 
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> heh
[00:51] <Kris_away> Kickoff makes me rage because i keep kitting the back button my mouse thinking i'll go back, I should try patching that... but every time i patch someone's C++ code I break things...
[00:54] <Riddell> kickoff feels really old to me now, I'm so used to homerun
[00:56] <yofel> if only homerun would show both names for the applications it would be perfect
[00:57] <yofel> that's about the only thing I miss
[00:58] <Kris_away> kickoff could so easily be modded to be much batter, it jsut needs the lok changed and back/forward working
[01:00] <shadeslayer> yofel: both names?
[01:01] <yofel> shadeslayer: Name and GenericName
[01:01] <yofel> so in kickoff it's obvious that amarok is an audio player, in homerun it's not
[01:02] <shadeslayer> ah
[01:02] <shadeslayer> so IMHO if you're searching for Amarok you know it's a Music player
[01:02] <shadeslayer> hence, no need to display GenericName
[01:02] <shadeslayer> but if you search for Music, it does show Amarok and all other players
[01:03] <Kris_away> are there any threads open about improving kickoff? it has the code jsut needs to look a bit different and be a litttle more functional
[01:03] <yofel> shadeslayer: maybe I'm just not used to search for keywords
[01:04] <yofel> if you do it like that it works, sure
[01:04] <shadeslayer> nah, it's just that it doesn't make sense for me for homerun to display the GenericName
[01:05] <yofel> you could add genericName and comment in a tooltip though. That wouldn't make it look bad
[01:32] <shadeslayer> alright, I'm done for the day
[01:32] <shadeslayer> night/morning everyone :_
[01:32] <shadeslayer> :)
[01:32] <yofel> 'night
[01:38] <Kris_away> everything unix is gmt so it's 01:39 :P
[06:02] <Kris_away_> Sucks I have to toggle compositing off to run ogl/d3d wine things, oh well... 3d performance overall is quite good with it off... gpus are dicks at multitasking.... 1000 cores and it can only do 1 thing at a time... unless you merged all 3d work into 1 task before giving the gpu work...
[06:46] <soee> good morning
[07:47] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:21] <Mamarok> Riddell: your @riddell.org mail is bouncing with a 550 message
[08:38] <Kris_away_> How many here use kate as their primary text editor? Although anything with highlighting is all I need...
[08:38] <jussi> Kris_away_: I do
[08:40] <lordievader> Kris_away_: If I use a GUI text editor, yes. Else no, I use vim as my main text-editor.
[08:44] <Kris_away_> vim is made of the devil... emacs is made of neck-beard - nano is purity, no fluff, just a box to type in with a few delicacies.
[08:45] <lordievader> Kris_away_: To each his own ;)
[08:45] <Kris_away_> acme is great but most havne't even heard of it...
[08:46] <Kris_away_> Some say Plan9 was made to run acme...
[08:56] <Riddell> Mamarok: I don't have one, it's jr @ jriddell.org
[09:12] <Mamarok> Riddell: yep, and it is bouncing for kubuntu-users@
[09:12] <Mamarok> misstyped, sorry
[09:12] <Mamarok> holy crap, device notifier, stop telling me I have connected devices every 10 seconds
[09:33] <Mamarok> that is very, very annoying, why does the Device Notifier pop up all the time? It didn't do that yesterday
[09:33] <Mamarok> and I didn't change anything in the way the devices are attached or handled, nor are they newly attached
[09:42] <smartboyhw> Hi guys
[09:42] <smartboyhw> Ah tmr is meeting time:P
[09:43] <lordievader> Hey smartboyhw, how are you?
[09:45] <Mamarok> hm, kde-telepathy is still held back :(
[09:46] <smartboyhw> Mamarok, hmm
[09:46] <smartboyhw> Well anyway we targetted the bug at Beta 2
[09:46] <smartboyhw> It would be good to get it in Beta 1, probably too late though
[09:49] <Riddell> Mamarok: new ktp to come in right after beta 1
[09:49] <Mamarok> OK
[09:50] <Riddell> Mamarok: denice notifier popup sounds like something deep in linux is doing constant activations of it
[09:50] <Riddell> anything in /var/log/syslog?
[09:50]  * smartboyhw is busy with Ubuntu Studio release matters
[09:56] <murthy> hello everyone
[09:57] <Riddell> morning murthy 
[09:57] <smartboyhw> Sup:P
[09:57] <murthy> Riddell: good morning
[09:58] <murthy> smartboyhw: hi
[10:13] <murthy> who is working on ubiquity?
[10:17] <Riddell> murthy: various people, what do you need?
[10:18] <murthy> Riddell: i am trying to debug a bug similar to this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1087409
[10:19] <murthy> Riddell: I have narrowed down to  fn in a ubiquity/scripts/plugininstall.py
[10:20] <murthy> Riddell:  line 1228   "  def install_restricted_extras(self):"
[10:21] <Riddell> ah, sounds like a hand for xnox would be good
[10:22] <murthy> ya
[10:22] <murthy> the thirdparty download process is blocking the main process and it hangs before the partition screen
[10:23] <murthy> we have to wait until the download which happens in the background finishes
[10:25] <Mamarok> Riddell: besides an obscure cron job that repeats itself every 10 minutes I see nothing: CRON[21232]: (root) CMD (command -v debian-sa1 > /dev/null && debian-sa1 1 1)
[10:25] <Mamarok> what on earth is that for?
[10:25] <murthy> Mamarok: hi
[10:26] <Mamarok> hi murthy
[10:31] <Riddell> Mamarok: dunno, anything in /etc/cron.d ?
[10:33] <Mamarok> it's a sysstat, but what does that debian-sal script do?
[10:34] <Mamarok> "Activity reports every 10 minutes everyday", what is the point of that?
[10:35] <xnox> Mamarok: on very very slow architectures / machines to distinguish if the machine is fully dead or still operational =)
[10:36] <Mamarok> xnox: makes zero sense on a Lenovo X220 i3 with 8 gb RAM
[10:36] <Mamarok> i5 actually
[10:36] <Mamarok> the device notifier pops up every minute, roughly, so that is something else
[10:37] <Mamarok> xnox: can that thing be disabled safely?
[10:38] <xnox> not sure what device notifier is.
[10:38] <xnox> screenshots? =)
[10:38] <Mamarok> I don't talk about the device notifierto disable, that script I meant
[10:39] <Mamarok> and you don't know what the device notifier is in the KDe Systray?
[10:39] <murthy> xnox:  do_install used in /ubiquity/scripts/plugininstall.py    is from    ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py     ?
[10:42] <murthy> yofel: i don't know python, is the keyword 'self' in python is like 'this' in qt ?
[10:42] <yofel> yes
[10:43] <murthy> ok
[10:43] <murthy> xnox: found, do_install is used from  ubiquity/ubiquity/install_misc.py
[10:44] <21WAAARA1> Are there C bindings for Qt? So I can use Go/C instead of C++
[10:44] <murthy> yofel: python is very easy
[10:44] <yofel> murthy: self isn't actually a keyword, it's just convention to call it self (first parameter to a class function is the object itself)
[10:46] <murthy> yofel: ok
[10:46] <Riddell> 21WAAARA1: I don't think there are current C bindings for Qt, people have tried in the past but there's not much point in them so they bitrotted away
[10:46] <smartboyhw> Back from release business 
[10:48] <Riddell> smartboyhw: what business was needed over at studio?
[10:48] <smartboyhw> Riddell, some release notes doing and some testing:P
[10:48] <smartboyhw> Now trying to get rid of our upgrade testcasess
[10:48] <Riddell> smartboyhw: which ones need getting rid of?
[10:48] <smartboyhw> Riddell, all of them (the upgrades)
[10:49] <smartboyhw> Actually we do have the privellgese
[10:49] <smartboyhw> privileges
[10:49] <smartboyhw> stgraber helped to set up release rights for Ubuntu Studio to the Ubuntu Studio release team
[10:50] <smartboyhw> But I need ACK from someone in main release team to remove all those upgrades:P
[10:50] <yofel> you guys don't support upgrades o.O? Or is it just too broken right now?
[10:50] <smartboyhw> yofel, we just don't recommend it
[10:50] <smartboyhw> And we don't have enough testers
[10:50] <smartboyhw> And it's a little bit broken
[10:50] <smartboyhw> And ....
[10:52] <smartboyhw> .......
[10:52] <murthy> yofel: I guess the problem is in the ui/qt
[10:52] <21WAAARA1> Instead of upgrades, why not have a "that'll do"... jsut bring along files and package list, configs, stick in everything the "werks"
[10:53] <murthy> yofel: as far asi know, the code in the scripts seems fine
[10:53] <yofel> smartboyhw: a little bit broken on the upgrade side or is the desktop messed up later?
[10:53] <smartboyhw> yofel, upgrade side
[10:53] <yofel> ah
[10:54] <smartboyhw> Some new metas aren't included
[10:54] <yofel> ah ok
[10:54] <apachelogger> if someone wants to play SRU -> bug 1076889
[10:54] <smartboyhw> And anyway we just don't recommend it
[10:54]  * smartboyhw doesn't know how to play with SRUs
[10:54] <smartboyhw> And anyway I don't have a Precise install
[10:54] <yofel> murthy: it is a response issue, as it does everything in the background right now
[10:54] <21WAAARA1> well your name implies you're smart with hardware, nt software lol
[10:55] <yofel> murthy: but someone with more ubiquity knowledge will have to help you there
[10:55] <smartboyhw> 21WAAARA1, bah Why doesn't everyone think I'm good at hardware?\
[10:55] <smartboyhw> It's the complete opposite
[10:55] <smartboyhw> HW = Howard != hardware
[10:55] <21WAAARA1> well you should of called yourself how, now hw lol
[10:56] <murthy> yofel: i mean the ui/ubiquity integration. i will ask xnox
[10:56] <smartboyhw> lol
[10:56] <apachelogger> hwinfo = howardinfo?
[10:56] <apachelogger> Oo
[10:56] <murthy> apachelogger: no howdsternifno
[10:56] <yofel> lol
[10:56] <apachelogger> Oo
[10:56] <smartboyhw> .....
[10:56] <apachelogger> no one opinionated bug 1154630
[10:57] <21WAAARA1> ALSA WILL NEVER DIE
[10:57] <apachelogger> hmmmmmm
[10:58] <21WAAARA1> I don't get why pulse came around... been using also problem free for ages, then pules comes, oh yay, problems
[10:58]  * yofel had plenty of mixing issues with alsa until pulse came around
[10:58] <apachelogger> there were plenty of issues with alsa until pulse came around
[10:58] <apachelogger> ...
[10:58] <21WAAARA1> Alsa is like X... it's bad but it works... if you know also conf.. like xorf.conf... ugh
[10:58] <apachelogger> until recently key parts of alsa were not even reentrant
[10:59] <apachelogger> use it a bit too much and shit would crash in the most weird ways possible
[10:59] <apachelogger> ...
[10:59] <apachelogger> 21WAAARA1: they are both broken, regardless of config
[10:59] <Mamarok> 21WAAARA1: you do know we have a channel for smalltalk, #kubuntu-offtopic
[11:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: your code has the bug
[11:11] <Darkwing> Morning guys
[11:12] <lordievader> Hey Darkwing, how are you?
[11:12] <Darkwing> Awake lol
[11:13] <smartboyhw> Hello Darkwing :)
[11:13] <Darkwing> Mornin
[11:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5613312/
[11:19] <apachelogger> you lazy initObjects and opening an application triggers access to resourcemodel (object) thus causing nullptr access
[11:20] <apachelogger> also FWIW I'd be most happy if you'd be able to support using application when mainwindow is already open (i.e. dbus call from uniqueapp)
[11:21] <apachelogger> use case being I have the installer open already, then go browse the menu and stumble upon this browser thing, I click it and absolutely nothing happens... :(
[11:23] <murthy> xnox: what does 'self.db.fget' in ubiquity/plugins/ubi-prepare.py  line 270   do?
[11:23]  * xnox would suspect quering debconf database to get templates/text/answers
[11:23] <xnox> to the preseeded debconf questions.
[11:29] <soee> bum bum owncloud 5 released :)
[11:29] <smartboyhw> yep
[11:32] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/14/plasma-desktoprb3877.png -> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/03/14/plasma-desktopHU3877.png
[11:33] <yofel> apachelogger++
[11:36] <Riddell> apachelogger: scrapping the dedicated installed and just launching muon?
[11:42] <apachelogger> aye
[11:50] <apachelogger> https://trello.com/c/7XXEYPJP
[11:50] <apachelogger> if someone could file the FFe request that would be great
[11:50] <apachelogger> -> gone for >=1hr
[12:28] <yofel> hm... we should have more test cases - or did someone test an encrypted LVM upgrade?
[12:29] <Riddell> yofel: would that be likely to be different?
[12:29] <lordievader> yofel: I tested the encrypted LVM install, not upgrade.
[12:29] <xnox> yofel: not possible to do encrypted lvm upgrade at the moment.
[12:29] <Riddell> why not
[12:29] <Riddell> ?
[12:29] <xnox> due to bug 1066480
[12:30] <xnox> Riddell: you mean with CD or just with upgrade-manager?
[12:30] <yofel> Riddell: hm, well. I wouldn't be any different from ubuntu though, right
[12:30] <yofel> *it
[12:30] <Riddell> xnox: I assumed yofel was talking about upgrade-manager?
[12:30]  * yofel was talking about update-manager
[12:30] <xnox> ack, that should work fine.
[12:31] <yofel> encrypted LVM  upgrade from ubiquity sounds like something I don't want to try
[12:31]  * yofel -> lunch
[12:56] <apachelogger> ScottK: can we drop message-indicator/0001-Adds-support-for-Message-Indicator.diff from konversation?
[12:56] <ScottK> Does MI still work?
[12:56] <apachelogger> it does not apply against 1.5
[12:56]  * ScottK didn't check lately.
[12:56] <ScottK> Ah.
[12:56] <apachelogger> also given the size of the patch I don't think anyone will want to port it
[12:57] <apachelogger> that is to say... I don't want to port it
[12:57] <ScottK> It's also a bit late to be jumping to a new Konversation version, isn't it?
[12:58] <ScottK> I certainly don't think we should block updating Konversation on needing to fix unmaintained Ayatana stuff, but we ought to first establish if we ought to update Konversation.
[12:59] <ScottK> We should probably ask someone that uses it too.
[12:59] <apachelogger> what we should do is test it IMO
[13:00] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: ^^^
[13:00] <apachelogger> thing is
[13:00] <apachelogger> 1.4 was released like 2011
[13:00] <apachelogger> so I expect 1.5 to be quite the big thing amongst konvi users
[13:01] <apachelogger> if we can have it already in raring we get plus points
[13:01] <ScottK> OK.  It's not in the default install at least.
[13:01] <apachelogger> if we have to backport or whatever and people have to add additional repos it gives minus points
[13:01] <apachelogger> ^^
[13:01] <ScottK> I'd say test and see how it goes.
[13:04] <JontheEchidna> I never used the MI stuff personally
[13:05] <JontheEchidna> historically when agateau worked for Canonical he'd fix it before every Konversation release
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: my hax are too dirty for advanced functionality like that :o
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> thanks for the patch for the crash though
[13:06] <apachelogger> pfff
[13:06] <apachelogger> it would be a relatively trivial patch :P
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> :P
[13:07] <apachelogger> make shitty for dbus that has ptr to mainwindow, register shitty class with dbus, when shitty class gets openApplication call it forwards to mainwindow
[13:07] <apachelogger> kuniqueapplication does most of the dbus lifting anyway ^^
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> and hope that the user still has the first item in the viewswitcher selected :P
[13:08] <apachelogger> yes
[13:08] <apachelogger> don't you have some unwind or something? :P
[13:08] <JontheEchidna> the navigation code for muon-installer is kind of spaghetti
[13:08] <apachelogger> mhhh
[13:09] <apachelogger> omnomnom
[13:09] <apachelogger> kinda shitty though
[13:09] <apachelogger> so
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> overengineered to the point of rigidity
[13:09] <apachelogger> we can have no feedback when MSC is open and hope no one notices it appears broken
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> lol
[13:10] <JontheEchidna> you could run killall -9 muon-installer from a KProcess :P
[13:10] <apachelogger> or we can have a harness script that checks ret value and shows nice kdialog when it's !=0
[13:10] <apachelogger> that needs l10n tho and really it's just pointing out that our solution is crap
[13:10] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: on muon-updater: we have 1.9.95-0ubuntu1 in raring right now.  That's not the broken one, is it?
[13:11] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: that is the broken one
[13:11] <ScottK> Sigh.
[13:11] <apachelogger> or we drop the firefox installer, in which case nothing's broken
[13:11] <JontheEchidna> ^^
[13:11] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ Is that something to respin for?
[13:12] <konvilogger> konversation 1.5 looks like 1.4 to me
[13:12] <konvilogger> haha
[13:12] <JontheEchidna> it probably looks a lot like 1.3
[13:12] <konvilogger> yah
[13:12] <konvilogger> good thing I knew the channel topic edit dialog thing is new
[13:13] <apachelogger> oh boy
[13:13] <apachelogger> you have to scroll for like 10 seconds to see the entire changes since 1.4
[13:13] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I just put in an unblock to get the fixed muon into raring.
[13:14] <JontheEchidna> dat changelog: https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/network/konversation/repository/revisions/master/entry/ChangeLog
[13:14] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: great
[13:14] <apachelogger> I wonder how one can not get the idea of maybe doing a release when you have to scroll 5 seconds :P
[13:14] <ScottK> I'll leave it to Riddell to decide if we want to get it on the beta 1 images.
[13:14] <apachelogger> "* If built against KDE Platform v4.8.3 or higher, the date column in the Url'
[13:14] <apachelogger> ^^
[13:15] <ScottK> Nice .3.
[13:15] <ScottK> You have to be bug fix compatible.
[13:16] <apachelogger> you know
[13:16] <apachelogger> 1.5 has only like 2 new features
[13:16] <yofel> JontheEchidna: did you fix muon in the backports too? otherwise I'll do that now
[13:16] <JontheEchidna> yofel: kubuntu-ppa/backports? I hadn't been uploading it to there
[13:16] <agateau> xnox: hi, I am trying to debug my ubiquity slideshow issue, but whenever I reach slideshow, ubiquity crashes with an empty output error window. syslog contains this: http://paste.kde.org/696170/ does it ring a bell?
[13:16] <apachelogger> the rest is either bug fies or performance improvements
[13:16] <apachelogger> ....
[13:16] <shadeslayer> hm, well this is weird
[13:16] <apachelogger> we should update that to precise :D
[13:16] <shadeslayer> yofel: building tarball: '/home/shadeslayer/sauce/Kubuntu/kubuntu-auto-upgrade-testing/share/profiles/kubuntu/dist-upgrade-quantal.tar.gz'
[13:17] <shadeslayer> yofel: it's been like that since the morning
[13:17] <apachelogger> also it's precise compatible, so.... :D
[13:17] <yofel> JontheEchidna: I did as it was needed for kde 4.10, I'll upload the  new ones
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> yofel: thanks
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> it's a no-changes backport, luckily
[13:17] <yofel> yeah
[13:18] <yofel> shadeslayer: o.O - WFM, and it didn't take hours
[13:18] <xnox> agateau: did you skip installation  or disabled your network half way through?
[13:18] <agateau> xnox: no I did not
[13:18] <shadeslayer> hmm, should I ctrl-C it
[13:19] <agateau> xnox: installing from my raring system on an usb hard drive
[13:19] <agateau> err, installing *to* an usb hard drive
[13:19] <apachelogger> ScottK, JontheEchidna: lp:~apachelogger/kubuntu-packaging/konversation-1.5 landing in kubuntu-ppa/experimental
[13:20] <konvilogger> and it seems to work fine, as I said, most changes are in fact bug fixes and minor improvements :P
[13:20] <JontheEchidna> I won't be in for most of the day today, but I'll check it out
[13:20]  * konvilogger also has to hop on a train at some point today
[13:20] <konvilogger> or I'll have to get up at 5 tomorrow, which is kinda undesirable ^^
[13:21] <ScottK> konvilogger: The ride is probably more comfortable IN the train.
[13:21] <xnox> agateau: installing *to* a usb hard drive can have many unrelated bugs....
[13:21] <xnox> agateau: use VM.
[13:21] <agateau> xnox: I had the same problem with my VM, installing to another VM disk
[13:22] <agateau> xnox: could I be missing a package?
[13:22] <xnox> agateau: did you boot from CD?
[13:22] <agateau> xnox: no, I am running ubiquity by hand from my installed raring system, trying to install Kubuntu on the usb hard drive
[13:22] <xnox> this will never work.
[13:23] <xnox> because bits that are on the cd are not present on the installed system, like the whole squashfs that one is trying to copy.
[13:23] <agateau> how can you develop on ubiquity then?
[13:23] <xnox> you will see a lot of bugs and weirdness.
[13:23] <xnox> agateau: boot VM, switch to tty1, stop lightdm, stop ubiquity. Upgrade the packages or edit files in place, start ubiquity.
[13:24] <xnox> agateau: or use unit-tests, load individual pages, but not the whole installer.
[13:24] <agateau> xnox: damn, that's a bit cumbersome
[13:24] <xnox> agateau: well, yeah, I can tell you never run the full build to generate .deb, as your commits failed unit tests and I had to fix up after you.
[13:25] <agateau> xnox: I am trying to debug that slideshow issue so loading individual pages is not going to help in that case :/
[13:26] <agateau> xnox: my commit failed unittests? are you talking about the pyflakes issue?
[13:26] <xnox> agateau: twiddle with frontend_kde to "switch to slideshow" as first thing. then launch, hopefully it reproduces the problem of it not moving.
[13:26] <xnox> frontend/kde_ui.py that is.
[13:27] <xnox> agateau: pyflakes & pep8 failed.
[13:27] <agateau> xnox: that is what my UBIQUITY_TEST_SLIDESHOW does, but it does not reproduce the bug
[13:27] <smartboyhw> Active i386 can be marked ready..
[13:27] <agateau> xnox: well, that is not unittest to me, but that's not really the topic
[13:28] <agateau> xnox: I understand it's a pain to clean up other mess anyway
[13:29] <konvilogger> ScottK: http://ntakeda31.edublogs.org/files/2010/07/india-train.jpg india disagrees
[13:29] <ScottK> Some not fitting in doesn't mean the ones inside aren't more comfortable.
[13:30] <xnox> agateau: i need to setup daily builds, that will teach everyone, and then revert with grace period of 24h for anyone to fix up =)
[13:30] <ScottK> It's not quite so cold in most of India as in Austria either.
[13:30]  * xnox ponders if my own commits will end up being reverted, lol
[13:30] <konvilogger> I choose to believe they oppted to be on the train rather than in the train.
[13:30] <agateau> xnox: sounds good :)
[13:32] <konvilogger> ScottK: http://blog.getsholidays.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/luxury-train-tour-300x234.jpg
[13:32] <konvilogger> doesn't look so comfy to me
[13:32] <shadeslayer> heh
[13:32] <konvilogger> notice how you don't see no nothing outside the train
[13:33] <shadeslayer> because its travelling at the speed of light
[13:33] <apachelogger> with all them people outside?
[13:33] <apachelogger> I don't think so.
[13:33] <shadeslayer> haha
[13:34] <shadeslayer> those people are glued to the train using Fevicol
[13:34] <apachelogger> wut?
[13:34] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTav-vdht0E
[13:35] <Riddell> so, who thinks we should respin for muon?
[13:35] <Riddell> or rather who's able to test if we do?
[13:35] <Riddell> lordievader: still in testing mode?
[13:35] <apachelogger> wtf
[13:36] <Quintasan> hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[13:36] <Quintasan> my head hurts from calculus
[13:36] <Riddell> smartboyhw: can you handle some more?
[13:36] <apachelogger> Quintasan: go watch indian adhesive ads
[13:36] <Riddell> Quintasan: come and do some iso testing to relax
[13:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: if update manag0r is broken in .95 I think a respin would be wise
[13:37] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: hmm I see no 1.9.97 here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/muon
[13:37] <lordievader> Riddell: Not today, done 5 testcases for i386 and 5 testcases for amd64 yesterday. There were no new images today, so I thought it wasn't necessary.
[13:37] <lordievader> Riddell: But I could test a respin, sure :)
[13:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/muon/1.9.97-0ubuntu2
[13:38] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/muon/1.9.97-0ubuntu2
[13:38] <Riddell> mm, launchpad being slow
[13:39] <apachelogger> huh
[13:39] <apachelogger> lol
[13:40] <ScottK> Looks like muon migrated.
[13:40] <apachelogger> I like how lunchpad is doing dailies in the middle of european day
[13:40] <ScottK> Riddell: It seems to me that a broken updater is kind of a bad thing to give people on install.
[13:40] <apachelogger> also I like how amd64 has a >7hr build lag compared to i386
[13:40] <Riddell> ScottK: it is inconvenient
[13:41] <apachelogger> (I do not get how that happns tho, as usually i386 lags behind)
[13:41] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: did you hack the lunchpad?
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> nein!
[13:41] <apachelogger> I do not believe you.
[13:41] <apachelogger> Somebody clearly hacked the lunchpad and swapped the i386 builders with amd64 builders.
[13:41] <Riddell> 1.9.97 now in launchpad, not in archive.u.c
[13:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: probably not published/synced/whatever yet?
[13:42] <Quintasan> Riddell: I will when I get home
[13:43] <Quintasan> I'd kill for a decent connection at my uni in some lecture rooms
[13:43] <apachelogger> get yerself a phone
[13:44] <Quintasan> battery status: 0%
[13:44] <Quintasan> sup
[13:44] <apachelogger> or get a hsdpa modem
[13:44] <shadeslayer> get a battery pack for your phone
[13:44] <shadeslayer> one of those things that charges over USB
[13:46] <yofel> every phone should charge over USB these days...
[13:46] <yofel> as long as you have the cable with you
[13:47] <apachelogger> wireless charging!!@#!#!
[13:48] <apachelogger> scru u and your cables
[13:48] <apachelogger> real men charge without the wires
[13:48] <yofel> oooh, I see the plymouth cryptsetup password dialog on my T510 in raring \o/
[13:49] <xnox> yofel: i'd be scared if you didn't =) as i'm running cryptsetup with lvm on my main machine which is running raring =)
[13:49] <shadeslayer> pft, I always saw it
[13:49] <apachelogger> and that's something to be happy about?
[13:49] <apachelogger> lol?
[13:49] <yofel> xnox: it doesn't show in quantal with nouveau, that's what I'm happy ;)
[13:50] <apachelogger> <- fixed it
[13:50] <apachelogger> <- rewrote half the shitty script
[13:50] <apachelogger> <- wanted to rewrite the entire script :(
[13:51] <Quintasan> why didn't you do it? :P
[13:51] <Quintasan> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
[13:51] <Quintasan> FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM
[13:51]  * Quintasan goes home
[13:51] <apachelogger> [recipe build #420656] of ~blue-shell ktp-contact-list-kpeople-daily in quantal: Failed to build
[13:51] <apachelogger> :@
[13:52] <Riddell> oh my, krita has gone all dark theme :(
[13:52] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: why do we have recipes of upstreams that break compat every other day anywya?
[13:52] <apachelogger> it is outragous
[13:53] <yofel> first time I tried dailies with archive packaging was kdevelop -> unmaintainable
[13:53] <yofel> 2nd try was with kdelibs -> crash bzr-builder
[13:54] <yofel> neon FTW \o/
[13:57] <apachelogger> oy
[13:57] <apachelogger> how I hate bash
[13:57] <apachelogger> -.-
[13:58] <apachelogger> yofel: kdevelop, lol
[13:58] <apachelogger> maybe start small? :P
[13:58] <yofel> that's why I went with kdelibs!
[13:58] <yofel> :P
[13:58] <apachelogger> that aint small
[14:01] <yofel> shadeslayer: what's the ddeb situation actually? Got out PPA size tripled?
[14:02] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[14:04] <Riddell> proofreaders: how's this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RaringUpgrades/Kubuntu
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Riddell, +1
[14:07] <yofel> looks fine
[14:09] <lordievader> Riddell: Looks good, one minor thing though, I would capitalize the first letters of the list: Run the release.... Reboot
[14:10] <smartboyhw> LOL:)
[14:10] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: running muon-updater on command line I get this http://paste.kde.org/696242/
[14:10] <murthy> BluesKaj: hi
[14:12] <BluesKaj> hi murthy
[14:15] <murthy> shadeslayer: are you there?
[14:17] <shadeslayer> yofel: I haven't heard a definite yes/no 
[14:17] <shadeslayer> maybe something to discuss tomorrow?
[14:18] <smartboyhw> yofel, on what?
[14:18] <shadeslayer> murthy: not really, about to go out
[14:18] <smartboyhw> Riddell, heard discussions before in mailing list about business cards, are they actually available?
[14:19] <murthy> shadeslayer: ok see you later
[14:19] <Riddell> smartboyhw: needs someone to make the svgs
[14:19] <Riddell> smartboyhw: notes.kde.org/kubuntu-business should be the place
[14:20] <smartboyhw> I thought they are already made:P
[14:20] <smartboyhw> Riddell, and that pad doesn't exist
[14:20] <Riddell> smartboyhw: I made a test batch
[14:20] <smartboyhw> Riddell, where?
[14:20] <shadeslayer> huh?
[14:20] <shadeslayer> SVG/s http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/cards/src/
[14:20] <Riddell> smartboyhw: http://notes.kde.org/kubuntu-cards
[14:20] <yofel> smartboyhw: what on what?
[14:20] <smartboyhw> yofel, <shadeslayer> yofel: I haven't heard a definite yes/no 
 maybe something to discuss tomorrow?
[14:20] <smartboyhw> Wondering....
[14:21] <yofel> ah, ppa ddebs
[14:21] <smartboyhw> Riddell, OK.
[14:21] <yofel> shadeslayer: last message I saw was whether we seriously want that
[14:21] <smartboyhw> But I certainly am a crap at art
[14:21] <smartboyhw> Seriously
[14:22] <shadeslayer> anyway, ciao
[14:23] <smartboyhw> ciao
[14:23] <Riddell> smartboyhw: just needs someone to replace the text for each of the people who ordered cards
[14:23] <smartboyhw> Riddell, oh alright:P
[14:23] <smartboyhw> Riddell, where are the files then?
[14:25] <Riddell> smartboyhw: http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/cards/src/
[14:25] <smartboyhw> Riddell, oh OK
[14:27] <Riddell> smartboyhw: http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/business/
[14:27] <smartboyhw> Which one was the actual one?
[14:28] <Riddell> I think kubuntu-jr-back.svg and kubuntu-jr.svg
[14:34] <ScottK> Who was going to test?
[14:34] <smartboyhw> Riddell, hopefully I can sync fast enough to get the image down for quick testing
[14:34]  * smartboyhw is testing amd64
[14:34] <Riddell> !testers
[14:34] <Riddell> all new ISOs
[14:34] <smartboyhw> ETA 10 minutes for download
[14:36] <apachelogger> am I glad when we do final freeze
[14:36] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:36] <apachelogger> raring is becoming the most annoying series of all time
[14:36] <soee> Ill test later at home, ~ 21:00
[14:36] <apachelogger> I totally see something bricking shortly before release, graphics driver or something
[14:36] <lordievader> Will test the 32 bit then :D
[14:36] <yofel> Riddell, ScottK: what was updated?
[14:36] <smartboyhw> yofel, new image
[14:37] <yofel> yeah... but why?
[14:37] <smartboyhw> For a muon respin
[14:37] <apachelogger> soee: your 2100 is my 0600 :P
[14:37] <yofel> ah
[14:37] <ScottK> yofel: Fixed muon
[14:37] <soee> apachelogger, better wake up than :D
[14:37] <yofel> gr... ubiquity is so utterly slow on my netbook. Click on install in plasma-netbook -> 30s later the installer pops up
[14:39] <smartboyhw> hmm suddenly it got slow, suddenly it is fast , suddenly slow, suddenly fast
[14:39] <yofel> what?
[14:40] <BluesKaj> ok , what's on the testing block ?
[14:40] <smartboyhw> yofel, internet speed for downloading the ISO
[14:40] <smartboyhw> BluesKaj, me
[14:40] <yofel> guess I can do some i386 testing
[14:40] <smartboyhw> Probably in 5 minutes the download will complete
[14:41] <apachelogger> someone really ough to find out why ubiquity-kde is so tediously slow on some systems
[14:41] <lordievader> What was fixed in Muon actually?
[14:41] <smartboyhw> lordievader, the 1.9.97 upload I think
[14:41] <apachelogger> or perhaps why it hogs resources like the king of ramz
[14:41] <smartboyhw> JontheEchidna accidentally uploaded 2.1 alpha
[14:41] <smartboyhw> Did I get it correct?
[14:42] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:42] <lordievader> And the 2.1 alpha didn't work correctly/was broken?
[14:42] <smartboyhw> lordievader, it just shouldn't be therre
[14:42] <smartboyhw> ..............
[14:43] <lordievader> True, okay :)
[14:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: something for the release page... you uploaded a new boot splash :P
[14:45] <apachelogger> also tomahawk is now available
[14:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: I did?
[14:46] <smartboyhw> lol
[14:46] <yofel> the splash is the same from what I see
[14:46] <yofel> so I guess Riddell reverted that part?
[14:46] <apachelogger> dunno
[14:46] <Riddell> yeah I did
[14:46] <apachelogger> ah
[14:46] <apachelogger> fancy
[14:46] <smartboyhw> ;)
[14:46] <smartboyhw> 1:27 ETA download
[14:47] <apachelogger> and here I thought I have someone to blame
[14:47] <apachelogger> oh well
[14:47] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:47] <apachelogger> that remind me
[14:47] <apachelogger> what do we do about lightdm+ksplash?
[14:47] <apachelogger> ...
[14:47] <yofel> I can live with the current theme - just the rendering *needs* fixing
[14:47] <lordievader> Yayy usb-stick is ready for testing :)
[14:47] <smartboyhw> Who's doing amd64 here?
[14:48] <murthy> apachelogger:  can i update bug 1152255  to fix released?
[14:48] <BluesKaj> you guys called for testers , so what are we supposed to test ?
[14:48] <lordievader> smartboyhw: You are right?
[14:48] <yofel> BluesKaj: new images http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds
[14:48] <apachelogger> yes
[14:48] <yofel> BluesKaj: with updated muon
[14:48] <lordievader> I'm doing i386 :)
[14:48] <murthy> ok
[14:48] <smartboyhw> lordievader, I mean except me
[14:48]  * yofel does i386 netbook
[14:48] <smartboyhw> yofel, :)
[14:48] <yofel> I'll do amd64 later too
[14:49] <lordievader> smartboyhw: I could do it later today, if need be.
[14:49] <smartboyhw> lordievader, later today the release time would have gone:P
[14:49] <lordievader> smartboyhw: Yeah, perhaps I'm in time ;)
[14:49] <smartboyhw> Damn I need to re-download
[14:49] <lordievader> When is the release time?
[14:49] <smartboyhw> I forgotten to put .zsync in it
[14:50] <smartboyhw> lordievader, about 2 hours later
[14:50] <lordievader> smartboyhw: From now, hmm ok.
[14:51] <apachelogger> ifff testdrive wasn't so broken....
[14:52] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:53] <yofel> testdrive works for me - except the usb stuff
[14:53] <yofel> dd FTW \o/
[14:53] <smartboyhw> \o/
[14:53]  * smartboyhw hates testdrive for not enabling drives >8 GB
[14:53] <smartboyhw> I need it for Ubuntu Studio.
[14:53] <smartboyhw> Then I realized that virt-manager is the best choice
[14:54]  * yofel usually just runs kvm by hand
[14:55] <smartboyhw> yofel, I like virt-manager more:P
[14:55] <smartboyhw> Re-download 2:58 ETA
[14:55] <smartboyhw> It's SDK day BTW
[14:55] <yofel> greeaaaat. My netbook can't connect to wireless
[14:56] <yofel> dhclient seems to just get stuck
[14:56] <smartboyhw> .....
[14:56] <lordievader> Muon 1.9.97 has succesfully reached the i386 image.
[14:56] <smartboyhw> lordievader, good
[14:57] <yofel> oh, now it connected, at the 4th attempt
[14:57] <smartboyhw> yofel, +1
[14:58] <yofel> that's fine, those rt2860 drivers were never perfect
[15:01] <smartboyhw> Got it :)
[15:01] <smartboyhw> \o/
[15:01] <lordievader> smartboyhw: Nice :)
[15:03] <smartboyhw> Hmm so many testcases how can I complete them at once?
[15:03] <smartboyhw> Especially in such a tight time to test
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Damn my live session doesn't load
[15:04] <smartboyhw> In KVm
[15:04] <yofel> JontheEchidna: that right panel looks a bit... plain wrt. information http://yofel.dyndns.org/pics/ext/snapshot1.png
[15:04] <yofel> intended?
[15:07] <yofel> nvm, ENOSPC. So god knows what it did
[15:07]  * smartboyhw needs to test the actual installer first
[15:10] <lordievader> Nice resizing of ubiquity is fixed :D
[15:10] <smartboyhw> :D
[15:12] <Riddell> apachelogger: able to share your collection with me somehow so I can get a tomahawk screenshot?
[15:13] <yofel> someone put killing jockey on the todo list for 13.10
[15:13] <Riddell> yofel: JontheEchidna did for 12.10
[15:14] <yofel> then the hook for it didn't get removed or something. It pops up searching for drivers on first logout after booting the installed system
[15:14] <yofel> *during* logout
[15:14] <Riddell> yofel: well it didn't get replaced at all
[15:14] <yofel> then the todo is still valid ^^
[15:19] <Riddell> hi keithzg, new images to be tested
[15:19] <Riddell> proofreaders: how's this? https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RaringRingtail/Beta1/Kubuntu
[15:20] <smartboyhw> Riddell, it looks OK. I actually copied some parts of the release notes for Ubuntu Studio using yours:P
[15:20] <Riddell> pirate!
[15:20]  * keithzg runs off to the download site
[15:21] <Riddell> keithzg, smartboyhw, lordievader: please mark test cases as in progress if you're starting them, we're short of time so best to minimise duplication
[15:21] <smartboyhw> Riddell, OK
[15:22] <lordievader> Riddell: Ok.
[15:22] <keithzg> Riddell: OK, as they say
[15:24] <Riddell> murthy: did you package tomahawk? able to share your collection with me?
[15:24] <lordievader> Riddell: Looks good, the Beta1 page :)
[15:26] <murthy> Riddell: apachelogger tells be that i packaged it. I haven't used tomahawk once, i will try it
[15:26] <murthy> let me try this
[15:26] <Riddell> mm hmm
[15:27] <murthy> Riddell: you mean my music collection?
[15:27] <Riddell> murthy: yes, through tomahawk, for a screenshot
[15:27] <murthy> Riddell: sure
[15:28] <murthy> Riddell: is tomahawk backported to 12.10?
[15:28] <Riddell> not that I know of
[15:29] <Riddell> murthy: if it's hassle then don't worry
[15:30] <murthy> Riddell: i am running 12.10 and i don't have 13.10 kubuntu, i have ubuntu 13.04 shall i try there? i like too
[15:30] <murthy> the page looks nice
[15:30] <Riddell> murthy: sure
[15:30] <murthy> ty
[15:31] <yofel> tomahawk builds are in ppa:tomahawk/ppa for anything older than 13.04
[15:31] <yofel> have been for ages
[15:32] <smartboyhw> Riddell, amd64 done:)
[15:32] <smartboyhw> Except the optional one:P
[15:33] <murthy> brb going to restart
[15:33] <murthy> Riddell: i will back with a scrfeenshot
[15:33] <murthy> Riddell:* screenshot
[15:41] <murthy__> Riddell: I am already having a kubuntu raring install which i forgot
[15:41] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:41] <lordievader> How do you guys manage to run multiple tests at once, Virtual Machines?
[15:41] <murthy__> smartboyhw: blame pbuilder
[15:42] <smartboyhw> :P
[15:42] <smartboyhw> lordievader, VMs:P
[15:42] <lordievader> I thought so... 
[15:43] <Riddell> smartboyhw: umm you're very fast on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39750/testcases 
[15:43] <Riddell> smartboyhw: are you really installing them all?
[15:43] <Riddell> how many virtual machines do you have there?
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Riddell, a lot....
[15:44] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:45] <lordievader> smartboyhw: What are the specs of the host machine? Should be quite a beefy machine!
[15:45] <smartboyhw> lordievader, no. I have two:P
[15:46] <lordievader> smartboyhw: Ah, I see. Way to much for one machine, I suppose.
[15:46] <smartboyhw> lordievader, yep. Actually there is an integrated testing method. You need to merge the live session test with a install one
[15:46] <smartboyhw> Or OEM + manual partitioning
[15:52] <murthy__> Riddell: http://imagebin.org/250247      do you want me to correct the cover images?
[15:55] <lordievader> Thanks for the tip, smartboyhw :)
[15:55] <murthy__> tomahawk is awesome
[15:55] <murthy__> I am wondering why i was not recommended before
[15:57] <smartboyhw> Yep
[16:03] <Riddell> murthy__: nah that'll do good
[16:03] <murthy__> Riddell: thank you
[16:09]  * keithzg has had no luck with playing anything from Tomahawk's Charts in 12.10, sadly; otherwise though looks pretty damn promising
[16:11] <murthy__> keithzg: I am going to spend some time with tomahawk, i am not able to close it now, looks awesome
[16:12] <BluesKaj> I don't care for the unnecessary social media options ...who cares what i'm listening to ...really
[16:13] <keithzg> BluesKaj: The kids these days do. #lawns
[16:13] <keithzg> I'm more annoyed by how it's skipping one of the albums I have for no obvious reason, and it doesn't support drag-and-drop of actual files. Ah well.
[16:13] <BluesKaj> I have 4 kids , they don't care , really
[16:14] <BluesKaj> I noticerd clementine wasn't picking up some albums ..disappointing that i had to revert to amarok
[16:18] <keithzg> BluesKaj: At least Tomahawk appears to make it really easy, just a toggle for Public or Private. Although as someone who has had his devices sync to Last.fm for years I'm obviously fine with sharing my listening, heh.
[16:18] <lordievader> Be back later, going to get some food.
[16:20] <BluesKaj> keithzg, it's not the sharing that bothers it's the planted idea by advertisers that others actually care :)
[16:21] <keithzg> BluesKaj: Heh, fair enough. On that note, I'm sad that Libre.fm is missing from Tomahawk (it's languished in obscurity and stalled development for years now, but it still works fine for just recording listens).
[16:28] <keithzg> Hmm Tomahawk doesn't respond to XF86AudioPlay.
[16:30] <murthy__> keithzg: XF86AudioPlay creative sound card?
[16:30]  * keithzg jumped to conclusions; it works fine after restarting it
[16:30] <murthy__> nice
[16:31] <lordievader> Back ;) How goes the testing?
[16:31] <lordievader> Hehe, nice!
[16:32] <keithzg> murthy__: naw I mean the keyboard command actually (I have a Griffen PowerMate configured for my volume (XF86AudioRaiseVolume/XF86AudioLowerVolume) and play/pause (XF86AudioPlay).
[16:32] <Riddell> it's ready!
[16:32] <murthy__> keithzg: oh , ok
[16:32] <smartboyhw> So now what we have to do is wait for UbuntuKylin to be respun and tested and marked ready
[16:36] <murthy__> whats ready?
[16:37] <Riddell> kubuntu is ready for beta 1
[16:37] <lordievader> Wheee :D
[16:37] <murthy__> \o/
[16:37] <Riddell> thanks for helping all, I'm going out for a bit to get some fresh air
[16:38] <murthy__> see you later
[17:10] <BluesKaj> well, sorry to report that Ubiquity continues to fail at or just before the partitioning phase , on the Kubuntu 13.04 Beta daily
[17:10] <BluesKaj> amd 64 
[17:11] <BluesKaj> a bug that's 2 months old and running
[17:13] <BluesKaj> waited 5 mins for something to happen after choosing "install Kubuntu ", nothjing but a spinning cursor , no apparent communication between the cd and the HDD 
[17:13] <BluesKaj> that's all I have to report 
[17:17] <murthy> BluesKaj: did you deselect the thirdpart option in the first screen?
[17:18] <murthy> BluesKaj: *thirdparty
[17:19] <Mamarok> murthy: I think BluesKaj is experienced enough to know what he is doing :)
[17:20] <murthy> Mamarok: meaning?
[17:21] <Mamarok> meaning what I just said
[17:21] <murthy> Mamarok: I am confused
[17:21] <yofel> if it freezes completely, running the live session and installing while having 2 terminals with 'tail -f .xsession-errors' and 'tail -f /var/log/syslog' open in front could tell something
[17:22] <yofel> or whatever logfile that could have something useful
[17:22] <Mamarok> murthy: well, he is around since quite some time now as a tester, like, years?
[17:22] <murthy> yofel: complete freeze= x freeze?
[17:22] <yofel> murthy: well yeah - you guys did talk about it freezing, right?
[17:22] <murthy> Mamarok: no i am talking about a bug
[17:23] <murthy> yofel: he said the mouse cursor is spinning
[17:23] <yofel> hm
[17:23] <murthy> BluesKaj: does the test system contain the nvidia card?
[17:24] <yofel> not  undebuggable, but I have to go now
[17:24] <murthy> yofel:  i will try
[17:26] <murthy> Mamarok: the thirdparty update process blocks the main process in the new ubiquity
[17:26] <Mamarok> murthy: no need to repeat, I can read
[17:27]  * Mamarok goes cooking
[17:28] <murthy> need some coffee
[17:32] <apachelogger> someone pleaese review https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-patched-l10n/trunk
[17:35]  * genii-around slides murthy a large mug of coffee
[17:36] <murthy> me enjoying the cofee
[17:36] <apachelogger> hmmmmm
[17:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: regarding print-manager in plasmainit script ... you also should write an update script to add it on existing systems IO
[17:37] <apachelogger> *IMO
[17:39] <rdieter> apachelogger, Riddell : feel free to borrow/steal, http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/kde-print-manager.git/tree/01-fedora-print-manager.js  (something that was adapted from kubuntu before anyway, so full circle)
[17:39] <apachelogger> rdieter: cheers
[17:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^
[17:39] <apachelogger> nom for you :P
[17:42] <apachelogger> Timeout error
[17:42] <apachelogger> hello lunchpad
[18:32] <murthy> apachelogger: do you have kdeplasma-addons for testing?
[19:57] <apachelogger> murthy: what for?
[19:58] <apachelogger> ScottK, Riddell: kubuntu-patched-l10n should arrive in new shortly
[19:58] <murthy> apachelogger: to reproduce a bug
[19:58] <apachelogger> which bug
[19:59] <murthy> apachelogger: kdeplasma-addons/applets/microblog/ 
[20:00] <murthy> apachelogger: call this fn MicroBlog::configAccepted() twice without delay and give me feedback
[20:01] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:01] <apachelogger> what for?
[20:01] <apachelogger> and how?
[20:02] <apachelogger> and what?
[20:02] <apachelogger> and why?
[20:02] <murthy> apachelogger: ..
[20:02] <murthy> apachelogger: plasma crashes when doing that
[20:03] <murthy> apachelogger: the fn is called when the apply and ok button of kconfigsdialog is pressed in sequence with negligible delay
[20:03] <murthy> apachelogger: thats in the microblog widget kconfigdialog
[20:03] <yofel> oh yeah, I think I saw that crash once
[20:04] <yofel> that widget is all sorts of broken
[20:04] <murthy> yofel: i twice fixed it
[20:05] <apachelogger> can't reproduce that with 4.10
[20:05] <apachelogger> even when using the keyboard shortcuts
[20:05] <murthy> apachelogger: tried clicking?
[20:05] <murthy> apachelogger: manual clicking wont do for your system
[20:06] <apachelogger> I know
[20:06] <apachelogger> my system is to fast
[20:06] <apachelogger> talk to JontheEchidna
[20:06] <murthy> apachelogger: thats the problem
[20:06] <apachelogger> his system is even so slow one of the most obvious timing problems didn't bite him :P
[20:06] <murthy> apachelogger: we need a slower system
[20:06] <murthy> apachelogger: can you all the slot from the app
[20:08] <apachelogger> what for
[20:08] <apachelogger> murthy: can you reproduce it?
[20:09] <murthy> apachelogger: ya, but no use
[20:09] <murthy> apachelogger: i mean i have a clean backtrace
[20:09] <apachelogger> clean backtrace?
[20:09] <murthy> apachelogger: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=302267
[20:10] <murthy> apachelogger:  i will get you a new one
[20:10] <apachelogger> it says it is fixed :P
[20:10] <murthy> a new backtrace
[20:10] <murthy> apachelogger: only the microblogger working part, not the crash
[20:11] <apachelogger> does not compute
[20:12] <murthy> apachelogger: the bug is a two part issue
[20:12] <murthy> apachelogger: one the microblog/twitter was broken, the other is the config kialog triggering a crash
[20:13] <murthy> apachelogger: the first part was fixed
[20:15] <murthy> apachelogger: This is been for a long time and this is bothering me a lot
[20:15] <BluesKaj> if you guys didn't see my post earlier , I'll mention it one more time , ubiquity failed on the beta install once again ..this time I let the cursor sit there and spin for 5 mins 
[20:15] <murthy> BluesKaj: you didn't answer me
[20:15] <apachelogger> kubotu: order beer
[20:15] <BluesKaj> i was away for a while 
[20:15]  * kubotu gives apachelogger a nice frosty mug of beer.
[20:16] <murthy> apachelogger:  i will give you chocolates if help me with this
[20:17] <BluesKaj> I had other business to attend to , murthy 
[20:17] <apachelogger> baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacktrace
[20:17] <murthy> BluesKaj: can i ask the question now?
[20:18] <murthy> apachelogger: drkonq is not getting triggered
[20:18] <apachelogger> gdb --args plasma-desktop --nofork
[20:20] <Quintasan> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
[20:21] <apachelogger> UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
[20:21] <BluesKaj> ask away murthy
[20:21] <Quintasan> yofel: I feel like your core does not like me
[20:21] <yofel> Quintasan: in more details?
[20:22] <Quintasan> like
[20:22] <murthy> apachelogger:  nothing happening 
[20:22] <Quintasan> I got home at 16:00, connected then it dropped me
[20:22] <apachelogger> murthy: then its not crashing?
[20:22] <Quintasan> I could not fully connect at least until 20:00
[20:22] <murthy> BluesKaj: did the system in which you tested contain the nvidia card
[20:22] <murthy> apachelogger: it crashes
[20:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: welcome to my world
[20:22] <murthy> apachelogger: plase
[20:22] <murthy> apachelogger: please
[20:22] <apachelogger> then you can trace it using gdb....
[20:23] <apachelogger> Quintasan: u also in the future now?
[20:23] <murthy> apachelogger: i want you to reproduce it
[20:23] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: stop bringing people to the future
[20:23] <apachelogger> it is confusing
[20:23] <apachelogger> murthy: I cannot
[20:23] <shadeslayer> muwhahaha
[20:23] <apachelogger> my computer is too fast
[20:23] <shadeslayer> lol
[20:24] <murthy> apachelogger: why cant you trigger multiple times then
[20:24] <Quintasan> apachelogger: in future?
[20:24] <yofel> Quintasan: can't see any connection issues here... please ping me on g+ when it happens next time so I can try some live analyzing
[20:24] <apachelogger> I cannot trigger it at all
[20:24] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: If I was in the future, Netflix would have a app for Ubuntu
[20:24] <murthy> shadeslayer: morning
[20:24] <BluesKaj> yes , I have only one active pc atm , murthy
[20:24] <shadeslayer> heh, evening murthy
[20:24] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: lol?
[20:24] <apachelogger> mir anyone?
[20:24] <apachelogger> mir, hwat mir
[20:24] <Quintasan> yofel: Mmkkay
[20:24] <murthy> apachelogger: why not?
[20:25] <shadeslayer> I'm serious, I want a netflix app :(
[20:25] <apachelogger> BECAUSE MY COMPUTER IS TOO FAST
[20:25] <yofel> though g+ doesn't like me tonight, aaron constantly hangs up :(
[20:25] <apachelogger> perhaps aaraon is kicking you
[20:25] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: perhaps your fingers are fscked
[20:25] <apachelogger> and my typing is really broken
[20:25] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I dunno
[20:25] <murthy> BluesKaj: sorry to ask you this again, so did you deselect the thirdparty software option
[20:25] <apachelogger> maybe too much coffee
[20:25] <shadeslayer> or just too much alcohol
[20:25] <apachelogger> well
[20:26] <apachelogger> none
[20:26] <apachelogger> perhaps I am in withdrawl or something
[20:26] <yofel> nah, that's just google preparing to tell people that they drop hangouts because it doesn't have enough users
[20:26] <shadeslayer> Wine mono installer
[20:26] <shadeslayer> sounds like as if my computer is getting a disease
[20:26] <apachelogger> yofel: you know, that would be fun :P
[20:26] <shadeslayer> yofel: haha
[20:27] <murthy> apachelogger: got it
[20:29] <murthy> apachelogger:  http://paste.kde.org/696656/
[20:30] <BluesKaj> murthy, the default is already deselected . the option is to select , which I did not do.
[20:30] <murthy> BluesKaj: in  that case, its a new bug
[20:31] <murthy> BluesKaj: have you registered this bug?
[20:32] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:32] <apachelogger> what
[20:32] <apachelogger> WTF
[20:32] <apachelogger> eh
[20:32] <apachelogger> oO
[20:32] <apachelogger> :O
[20:32] <BluesKaj> well maybe , but it has the same symptoms for 2 months now...I already told you when i visited launchpad to report the bug it had 38 "affects me too" reports there
[20:33] <apachelogger> hahaha
[20:33] <apachelogger> murthy: the most fun bug I have ever seen
[20:33] <BluesKaj> forgotten the bug number , because it was so long ago 
[20:33] <murthy> apachelogger: what is it?
[20:34] <murthy> BluesKaj: i need to check the bug report to see for any changes, checking backlog
[20:35] <apachelogger> you click apply
[20:35] <apachelogger> so the call chain for the button click starts
[20:35] <apachelogger> along the line that then starts using kwallet
[20:36] <apachelogger> at this point you could not ever trigger the second button click
[20:36] <apachelogger> stuff is still working on the old event so that is not possible
[20:36] <apachelogger> BUT
[20:36] <apachelogger> kwallet uses an own qeventloop to make sync calls that are not really sync
[20:36] <apachelogger> now this eventloop as any eventloop asks X11 for events it should work on and oh my there is an event (the second button click)
[20:37] <apachelogger> so it starts to do something that should not ever happen, it processes an event while it is processing an event
[20:37]  * BluesKaj just disables kwallet , never found it useful for anything , PITA aamof
[20:37] <apachelogger> it again goes into the button clicked slot and there it then apparently runs into a nullptr sigsev
[20:37] <apachelogger> so supposedly the kdialog is already partially destrcuted
[20:38] <murthy> apachelogger: omg you made my day
[20:38] <apachelogger> yeah, have fun fixing that :P
[20:38] <apachelogger> because that bug is just nasty
[20:39] <murthy> apachelogger: waaaaaattt?
[20:39] <murthy> apachelogger: thats the reason why i approached you
[20:39] <apachelogger> lol
[20:39] <apachelogger> I am not going to fix that crap :P
[20:39] <apachelogger> for all i care that plasmoid can go die somewhere
[20:39] <apachelogger> we have broken l10n
[20:39] <murthy> apachelogger: it also affects the wallpaper config dialog
[20:40] <apachelogger> backtrace?
[20:40] <murthy> apachelogger: ok i will try a workaround, just one doubt
[20:40] <shadeslayer> btw I've uploaded kde-gtk-config to the experimental ppa
[20:40] <apachelogger> you canot really work around taht
[20:40] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: go see a doctor or sth
[20:40] <murthy> apachelogger:  who to check the enable status of apply button in kconfigdialog?
[20:40] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: maybe I am having a stroke?
[20:41] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: possibly
[20:41] <apachelogger> murthy: you cannot
[20:41] <apachelogger> you don't have access to that inside the plasmoid I think
[20:41] <apachelogger> that is pretty much layerd away in plasma
[20:42] <murthy> apachelogger: so can you update the bug report so that someone will try to fix ?  https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=302267
[20:42] <apachelogger> it is a different bug
[20:43] <murthy> apachelogger: can you file a new one?
[20:43] <apachelogger> you can :P
[20:44] <apachelogger> also you still need a backtrace for the wallpaper crash
[20:44] <apachelogger> because that one is, I can assure you, different
[20:44] <murthy> apachelogger: i don't know to laugh or cry
[20:44] <apachelogger> you could fix the blog plasmoid :P
[20:45] <murthy> apachelogger: something that you feel nasty? me?
[20:45] <apachelogger> either introduce a queuedconnection somewhere or swtich the entire kwallet handling to async api (which in the end will be like you introduced a queuedconnection somewhere)
[20:45] <apachelogger> so what I am saying is: introduce a queued connection somewhere :P
[20:46] <murthy> apachelogger:  someone in kde-devel suggested this http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Using_KConfig_XT
[20:46] <shadeslayer> whut
[20:46] <murthy> apachelogger: so which component is actually buggy?
[20:46] <shadeslayer> how does using KConfigXT help?
[20:46] <murthy> shadeslayer: i had the same question
 murthy: i see you don't seem to use kconfig autogenerated classes, you should
[20:47] <apachelogger> it forces a saner code design on the programmer
[20:48] <apachelogger> i.e. it is possible that the entire problem would not exist if it was designed to use kconfigxt from the beginning
[20:48] <apachelogger> doesn't help now of course, other than making it all in all more readable code :P
[20:49] <murthy> apachelogger: so which component is actually buggy?   for the bug report
[20:49] <apachelogger> the microblog thing
[20:50] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[20:50] <murthy> shadeslayer: interested in fixing this bug ?
[20:50] <apachelogger> lol
[20:50] <murthy> ha ha ha
[20:50] <shadeslayer> no
[20:50] <shadeslayer> I'd like to remain sane
[20:51] <shadeslayer> apachelogger is already insane, he should fix the bug
[20:52] <apachelogger> no time
[20:52] <apachelogger> l10n
[20:52] <apachelogger> ....
[20:52] <murthy> apachelogger: in case of the wallpaper config dialog, nothing crashes but one of the thread/process terminates, what should i do
[20:52] <apachelogger> what?
[20:53] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[20:53] <murthy> process/thread the process that converts the given image to bmp or png(idk) for caching
[20:54] <apachelogger> what you are saying makes no sense :P
[20:54] <apachelogger> what is the actual problem?
[20:58] <murthy> what happens in the microblog applet's config dialog happens here. pressing apply and ok triggers the process(process which converts  any selected image to png/bmp) twice like in the microblog kconfigdialog which we saw and the process terminates, which results in an invalid converted image  that results in a black screen instead of the selected wallpaper
[20:58] <murthy> apachelogger: ^
[20:58] <murthy> apachelogger: won't disturb further
[20:58] <apachelogger> ah
[20:58] <apachelogger> there is no conversion going on
[20:58] <apachelogger> that is pure assumption on your part :P
[20:59] <apachelogger> what is going on is a lookup though IIRC
[20:59] <murthy> apachelogger: what about the image in the cache dir?
[20:59] <apachelogger> so yeah, the problem is probably related but not the same
[20:59] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[20:59] <apachelogger> murthy: cache happens after loading
[21:00] <soee> soee@ubuntu:~$ skype
[21:00] <soee> Naruszenie ochrony pamięci (core dumped)
[21:00] <soee> oO
[21:00] <apachelogger> the problem is not that it's caching it wrong or something, the problem is likely that it is being interrupted while trying to look up the best fitting resolution of a wallpaper or simiar
[21:00] <apachelogger> which is why it ends up being black
[21:00] <murthy> apachelogger: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=300708
[21:00] <murthy> apachelogger: ok
[21:01] <yofel> soee: nvidia?
[21:01] <soee> yofel, yes
[21:01] <yofel> soee: bug 1134030
[21:01] <soee> :<
[21:01] <yofel> has workaround inside
[21:04] <soee> yofel, yes workaround works, thank you
[21:07] <murthy> BluesKaj:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1087409
[21:07] <murthy> BluesKaj: thats one?
[21:35] <murthy> some how i feel taskmager items overlap bis is similar to the bug in the microblog that was discusses now
[21:35] <murthy> some how i feel taskmager items overlap *bug is similar to the bug in the microblog that was discusses now
[21:44] <clara> salve
[21:59] <xnox> Riddell: upon opening slideshow in GtkWebkit we force focus onto the webview by stealing focus, otherwise the webpage thinks it's in the "background" and not "front-most"
[22:32] <yofel> ximion: I wish you best luck with your new project - feel free to ask if you need packaging help with KDE. Maybe we can even work out a way so our packaging actually makes it to debian instead of them pretty much re-doing everything.
[22:32] <shadeslayer> I agree ^
[22:34] <yofel> what needs working out is the diff that was introduced for our buildd limitations and packaging automation. But IIRC that's not that much
[22:34] <murthy> yofel:  i am reporting a new bug using the crash assistant and there is a checkable option asking me if i compiled the kde platform from source. the rest of the kde stuff is default except the one which has the bug which i am reporting now was compiled from source. so should i select that option?
[22:34] <yofel> no
[22:35] <murthy> ok
[22:35] <yofel> not unless you're using something that's not tagged
[22:35] <murthy> i have compiled kdeplasma-workspace from master
[22:36] <yofel> that would be built from source then if you report something from there
[22:36] <yofel> in that case add the git hash to the bug
[22:37] <murthy> plasma-> microblog applet--> kwallet     i was asked to file a bug against kwallet which is a default one, what should i do
[22:38] <murthy> yofel: are you in kde-devel?
[22:38] <yofel> yes
[22:39] <murthy> yofel: check timestamp [03:18:55]
[22:39] <murthy> yofel: thats in kde-devel
[22:39] <yofel> I'm not sure what to do with mixed envs :/
[22:40] <murthy> yofel: if i do something wrong now, some bugquad member will bash me later
[22:40] <yofel> murthy: I thiink filing it against the official version would be fine
[22:40] <yofel> just mention that you built something yourself
[22:40] <yofel> or better try to reproduce it in a standard install
[22:42] <murthy> yofel: i will just use the official version , since the bug is in kwallet and its the default one
[22:43] <murthy> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=316740
[23:10] <ximion> yofel: yes, I agree :) We don't want to do much reinventing and we don't want to diverge much from upstream
[23:11] <ximion> I currently hope that we need close to no extra adjustments for Tanglu, si it will just be upload and done
[23:11] <ximion> (In reality this will probably not work so easily, but that would be the plan)
[23:11] <yofel> if you want to stay close to debian it'll need some adjustments
[23:11] <soee> anyone here using owncloud ?
[23:11] <ximion> so far I am surprised that there is close to no negative feedback :)
[23:12] <yofel> as we currently have some modifications to accomodate our buildd's and automation scripting
[23:12] <yofel> ximion: oh? ^^
[23:12] <ximion> yofel: true, but Debian would need these adjustments too, so Tanglu would not be the only project benefitting from making these adjustments
[23:12] <yofel> ximion: you are stealing our users! how can you do that! :D
[23:12] <ximion> yofel: thanks, I was missing that :-D
[23:13] <yofel> ok, joking aside
[23:13] <yofel> it would be great as we would have a place to properly merge our packaging with debian
[23:13] <yofel> right now it's completely out of sync, and as debian is always very late in packaging a KDE version we have barely any time for the merging
[23:14] <yofel> 4.8 got only a few selective merges, then we already had to move on to 4.9
[23:14] <Darkwing-Konvers> Well, konversation seems to work.
[23:14] <ximion> maybe talk to svuorela and the other members of the Debian Qt/KDE team about that...
[23:15] <ximion> it would be pretty cool if packaging could live in the infrastructure used by the KDE/Qt team on Debian's Alioth
[23:15] <yofel> we already had some of that... they aren't too interested in our packaging as it's not really debian quality sometimes and our copyright files are junk
[23:15] <ximion> or at some other place everyone is fine with ^^
[23:16] <ximion> hmm, yes - to be honest I noticed that :P
[23:16] <yofel> I hope we can find a way to improve that ;)
[23:16] <ximion> maybe talk to them anyway - if we can't collaborate easily, then at least a merged Tanglu/Kubuntu packaging would work
[23:16] <ximion> there are some tools in cdbs to automate copyright file generation
[23:17] <ximion> the problem is that proper debian/copyright files take a lot of work, with no immediate gain for users using the package, and it also is always incredibly boring work
[23:17] <yofel> uhm, yeah. That's why we mostly skip that (and because we don't have time)
[23:18] <shadeslayer> ^
[23:18] <murthy> and i do it
[23:18] <shadeslayer> It offers no benefits when compared to the time spent
[23:18] <shadeslayer> murthy: that's part of your education
[23:18] <yofel> murthy: for new packages it's required ;)
[23:18] <shadeslayer> we all did it in the beginning
[23:19] <murthy> understandable :)
[23:20] <yofel> ximion: it should be possible to at least keep the packaging close though, and at least the version update diff will probably be mostly the same
[23:20] <yofel> ximion: you can probably re-use some of our tools as well that we use lately
[23:20] <yofel> if we'll be using them both making them cross-distro usable would be a good thing
[23:21] <shadeslayer> ximion: I'm curious, will you be setting up buildd's 
[23:22] <shadeslayer> and everything else, yourself?
[23:22] <shadeslayer> or will that be managed by someone else
[23:22] <ximion> shadeslayer: yes, it is planned to do that - some people are working on getting servers and creating a buildd infrastructure
[23:22] <ximion> my university also wants to sponsor some server power, but that's still in discussion
[23:23] <shadeslayer> ah :)
[23:23] <ximion> the biggest problem will be to get this up and running and secure :-D - I never had the need to set something like this up, and I don't assume it will easily work :P
[23:23] <yofel> ximion: coming to Akademy?
[23:23] <shadeslayer> ^
[23:24] <ximion> yofel: unfortunately not, this will be right in my exam phase, and I will be leaving for a sponsored internship in Canada soon :-/
[23:25] <ximion> all the cool events are set when I have the least time
[23:25] <shadeslayer> ximion: the buildd and archive parts of things is the most time consuming part to maintain IMHO
[23:25] <ximion> FOSDEM was at a bad date too
[23:25] <yofel> I know that feeling :/
[23:25] <shadeslayer> haha
[23:25] <shadeslayer> students
[23:25] <shadeslayer> pft :p
[23:25] <yofel> well, can't do anything about that
[23:25] <yofel> shadeslayer: you be quiet!
[23:25] <shadeslayer> tehehehe
[23:25] <yofel> you I-have-an-exam-once-a-week student
[23:25] <ximion> shadeslayer: yes, and it is work I don't like to do :P I want to develop upstream stuff and package things, I don't want to admin a bunch of servers :P
[23:25] <shadeslayer> well I did have an exam once a week :p
[23:26] <shadeslayer> ximion: likewise ;)
[23:26] <Riddell> evening, what did I miss?
[23:26] <shadeslayer> new debian derivative :)
[23:26] <yofel> Riddell: a new debian derivative
[23:26] <ximion> but to achieve what we want, we will need that infrastructure, so if there is nobody whon steps up to do it, someone will have to do it (and I probably would)
[23:27] <shadeslayer> yep
[23:27] <shadeslayer> I'm so glad I use Launchpad PPA's for Netrunner ^_^
[23:27] <shadeslayer> don't have to do administration work :D
[23:27] <ximion> Riddell: now I feel that I should have told you that this was being discussed :P
[23:28] <ximion> PPAs for Debian are in discussion for a long time, and everyone agreed that it was a good idea - since half a year just nobody wants to write the required software and maintain a Debian-PPA service :P
[23:28] <ximion> same issue :D
[23:28] <shadeslayer> hehehe
[23:28] <shadeslayer> I can understand the reluctance ^_^
[23:28] <shadeslayer> it's hard work
[23:28] <shadeslayer> it's even harder to maintain it
[23:29] <shadeslayer> IIRC LP is still using warty
[23:29] <yofel> dunno what, but I had a buildd python2.5 backtrace a while ago
[23:30] <shadeslayer> there's also this thing http://debuild.me/
[23:30] <shadeslayer> which I have no idea does
[23:30] <shadeslayer> I mean, it tells me what it does
[23:30] <Riddell> sounds a lot like Ubuntu
[23:30] <shadeslayer> just doesn't tell how I can use it
[23:31] <yofel> it's like g+ and facebook, it's like ubuntu but not ubuntu
[23:31] <ximion> shadeslayer: oh, cool! it's done by paultag!
[23:31] <shadeslayer> yep
[23:31] <ximion> that means I can easily ask him about this stuff, as he apparently knows how to set up these things :P
[23:32] <shadeslayer> ximion: I just have no idea how *I* can use it
[23:32] <shadeslayer> but it /looks/ cool :P
[23:32] <ximion> yes :D
[23:33] <ximion> it currently also looks like it is building only one package... oO
[23:34] <ximion> Riddell: yes, a lot like Ubuntu - but we don't have money :P
[23:34] <shadeslayer> it's maintained over here :https://github.com/paultag/debuild.me
[23:35] <ximion> hmm...
[23:35] <ximion> it *looks* cool...
[23:35] <shadeslayer> :)
[23:35] <ximion> at time  using dak is discussed... but dak is a nightmare to set up - I am currently trying it, because I still need to implement DEP-11 in it - no cool job :D
[23:36] <shadeslayer> I don't know what dak is :P
[23:36] <ximion> using LP was dismissed, because it is even harder to set up, and we can't count on a helpful upstream with that
[23:36] <shadeslayer> ahha
[23:36] <shadeslayer> ahahaha
[23:36] <shadeslayer> you can't use LP
[23:36] <shadeslayer> not at all
[23:36] <ximion> so mini-dak remains also as a choice, but afaik it doesn't have stuff like upload queues
[23:36] <yofel> rather please don't
[23:37] <shadeslayer> because you can't have a publically accessible LP apart from the actual instance
[23:37] <ximion> dak is the Debian Archive Kit
[23:37] <yofel> what's dep-11 btw.?
[23:37] <ximion> the thing which handles all the Debian archives and the ftpmasters NEW queue
[23:37] <shadeslayer> I see
[23:38] <ximion> http://wiki.debian.org/DEP-11 - a service to provide app-info in repositories automatically
[23:38] <murthy> ximion: its easy to get money, just put an e char in the shopping icon and support app for ebay
[23:38] <yofel> curious that I never found that so far o.O
[23:38] <ximion> it also adds some more metadata to debian packages
[23:38] <ximion> with that, app-install-data gets obsolete, and cross-distro package installations will be possible with Debian too
[23:38] <Riddell> ta da http://www.kubuntu.org/news/13.04-beta-1
[23:39] <ximion> also mime-handles can be requested from the archive and apps can search for plugins automatically
[23:40] <ximion> Riddell: cool :) Already using it on my notebook ;-)
[23:40] <shadeslayer> sweet ^_^
[23:41] <Riddell> ximion: wait.. you have a new distro to use!
[23:41] <ximion> the appstream part is already accepted, the semantic component part needs to be rediscussed, as we changed the specs to add the data directly to binary packages, which will make it available everywhere
[23:41] <ximion> Riddell: working on it ;-)
[23:42] <ximion> the most annoying thing on Kubuntu is not the KDE part, but the underlying stuff from Ubuntu...
[23:43] <shadeslayer> underlying stuff like upstart?
[23:43] <shadeslayer> isn't that the only thing that's 'different' 
[23:44] <shadeslayer> btw they're going to drop a new mesa later in the cycle
[23:44] <shadeslayer> has anyone been testing that?
[23:45] <ximion> not only that... also things like PackageKit compat layers, patches to GTK+ and GLib which I hate and a great insecurity about what Canonical does next
[23:45] <ximion> but I don't want to get into criticising Ubuntu too much, it is not fair for those working on it
[23:45] <shadeslayer> ah
[23:46] <shadeslayer> I was purely speaking from a Kubuntu POV
[23:46] <shadeslayer> since we don't ship packagekit by default 
[23:46] <ximion> I am a bit strange in that regard, as I am somehow inbetween KDE and GNOME, using and developing both
[23:46] <ximion> yup, at least you don't ship a compat layer
[23:47] <ximion> that thing was the worst idea ever
[23:47] <yofel> ximion: you have been critisizing canonical less than we have lately, so don't worry
[23:47] <yofel> we'll have to see how qt5 works out for us with unity using it
[23:47] <shadeslayer> ^
[23:47] <yofel> gnome is indeed a mess on ubuntu
[23:47] <shadeslayer> hopefully it won't be patched heavily
[23:47] <shadeslayer> heh, I wonder how the GNOME Ubuntu team is dealing with it
[23:47] <murthy> yofel: +1
[23:48] <yofel> I know they have a PPA, but I think it's pretty buggy
[23:48] <ximion> yofel: Canonical is a company, I can criticize it as much as I want :P But not Ubuntu, as all the volunteers are included in Ubuntu development, and I find it slightly unfair to make it look like they were responsible for Canonical somehow or that their work was not good.
[23:48] <yofel> ximion: you might be able to win some of them for your side if you start working on gnome ;)
[23:49] <ximion> yofel: I hope so
[23:49] <ximion> GNOME on Ubuntu is terrible
[23:49] <ximion> even jbicha is not happy with it
[23:49] <murthy> good night everyone
[23:49] <yofel> nini murthy
[23:49] <ximion> and with that PPA you break Unity
[23:49] <ximion> otherwise Unity breaks GNOME :P
[23:50] <ximion> yeah! ^^
[23:50] <yofel> with the level of patching that's hardly avoidable
[23:50] <ximion> if your DE needs so many downstream-patched components, you're doing something wrong IMO
[23:50] <yofel> so we hope that won't happen to us too
[23:50] <ximion> yofel: what really sucks is that you can't possibly know that
[23:51] <yofel> depends on your intentions. They pretty much forked gnome by now
[23:51] <shadeslayer> we'll have to keep a close eye on Qt5 now btw
[23:51] <ximion> yofel: unfortunately not completely... that would probably help
[23:51] <yofel> ximion: it's the same with Mir - we might end up using *your* wayland packages once you have any
[23:52] <shadeslayer> ^^
[23:52] <shadeslayer> I think that's a long road from now
[23:52] <yofel> I don't think so, but Akademy will show
[23:53] <yofel> martin was postin earlier how far he got with qt5, and it looks really good on that side
[23:53] <ximion> yup, I hope that will work - and these perspectives also contribute to that I think Tanglu is a great idea
[23:53] <shadeslayer> long => 2 years
[23:53] <ximion> the irony is that I was the one who was against it at the beginning, and now I am the one who announced this project :P
[23:53] <ximion> GNOME is set to be on Wayland in spring 2014
[23:54] <ximion> I think that would be possible for KDE too...
[23:54] <shadeslayer> oh
[23:54] <ximion> but only martingr will know that, and he won't tell any timeframes anymore :P
[23:55] <yofel> soon - as in not debian-soon, sounds likely
[23:55] <ximion> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2013-March/msg00087.html
[23:55] <shadeslayer> hehe
[23:55] <ximion> Mir did one thing - forcing GNOME to do Wayland integration by themselves
[23:56] <ximion> previously they thought that Canonical would do part of the work, as they have announced earlier
[23:56] <shadeslayer> oh, this will be interesting, what happens to GTK applications on Mir?
[23:56] <yofel> gtk3 and qt5 will have a mir backend
[23:57] <shadeslayer> ah
[23:57] <yofel> that's the least of your problems
[23:57] <shadeslayer> I thought only Qt5 will have a Mir backend
[23:57] <yofel> I'm more worried about gnome applications running in kwin-wayland
[23:57] <shadeslayer> wrt Qt5 I know a module exists something
[23:57] <shadeslayer> heh
[23:57] <ximion> nope :) GTK+3 can even render to html (pretty cool thing!)
[23:57] <shadeslayer> heh
[23:58] <yofel> and gtk2 will just run in X-legacy-mode
[23:58] <ximion> I hope KWin and Mutter will work something out to stay compatible as Wayland compositors