[00:05] <len-1304> zequence, I notice we are back to terminal and filemanager are not preselected. On first use the user gets a select app dialog.
[00:17] <Lump|AFK> is the new iso available yet?
[00:17] <Lump|AFK> also, len, i looked over all the error logs i could think of and i am not seeing anything that is of comprehendable use to me
[00:18] <len-1304> Which new ISO? There is 13.04 beta 1 and soon we will be back to daily releases.
[00:19] <Lump|AFK> the one you guys were working on Monday night, which i think would be the beta
[00:20] <Lump|AFK> bbiaf, then i can actually be less than hereish
[00:23] <len-1304> Lump|AFK, we were thinking audio took a lot fo resources.... I am looking at the README for dvswitch, a live video switcher.
[00:24] <len-1304> Takes two video sources and an audio source and creates an output stream (video/audio)
[00:33] <len-1304> The suggested setup has more than one computer. Basically one computer for each input video stream and one for the output.
[00:34] <len-1304> I think the source computers are because firewire and USB cables are quite short and network cables can be long.
[00:36] <len-1304> I shall have to try it out. A couple of webcams should work.
[00:45] <Lumpy> still got a ton of emails to sift through but i am actually here now
[00:45] <Lumpy> what is this video program again
[00:45] <len-1304> dvswitch
[00:45] <Lumpy> becuase if you have something that is resource light
[00:45] <Lumpy> that is what i am looking for
[00:45] <len-1304> http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/
[00:45] <Lumpy> webcam studio for linux is okay
[00:46] <Lumpy> but it is clunky and not really being developed anymore
[00:46] <Lumpy> that and i can't run it on the power pc
[00:46] <len-1304> This is made for nice cameras :)
[00:46] <Lumpy> i don't have very nice cameras, just cheesy web cams
[00:46] <Lumpy> only on which is high def
[00:47] <len-1304> but it will work with whatever video stream so long as they are all the same
[00:47] <Lumpy> as in all the same resolution?
[00:47] <Lumpy> or exact same cameras?
[00:47] <len-1304> and frame rate
[00:47] <len-1304> they can be different cameras
[00:48] <len-1304> But both ntsc and both same res
[00:48] <len-1304> (or both pal)
[00:48] <Lumpy> looking over the link right now
[00:49] <len-1304> They show and output link to stream via icecast
[00:49] <len-1304> It is in the ubuntu repos. I downloaded and looked through the README
[00:49] <len-1304> There are actually 3 packages to download.
[00:50] <len-1304> The switch, the source (not code but video source) and sink.
[00:50] <Lumpy> i am looking at the example videos
[00:50] <len-1304> They are separated because you may only use one of the packages on any one computer.
[00:51] <Lumpy> this does look to have nice potential
[00:51] <Lumpy> matching frame rate, etc is not really big deal
[00:51] <Lumpy> actually a good idea in most cases
[00:51] <len-1304> It could be a good way to do live video for a concert for example.
[00:52] <Lumpy> i am watching the choir example at youtube... it is a nice way to do a live concert
[00:53] <len-1304> Not needed for making a video really, The whole thing could have been done in post production, but it would be great for providing foyer video or overflow video.
[00:54] <len-1304> Also good for side screens and such.
[00:55] <Lumpy> well looks like i have something else on my todo list now
[00:55] <len-1304> :)
[00:55] <Lumpy> next thing is to remember where the heck i put my cameras
[00:56] <len-1304> I have a few netbooks with built in web cams. They could work as sources
[00:59] <Lumpy> as do i
[00:59] <Lumpy> between my two cams, my lappy and my fiance's machine we could do a four camera show
[01:00] <len-1304> Need more people. That would require at least4 more people assuming one camera is static.
[01:01] <Lumpy> not really i am talking in the studio
[01:01] <Lumpy> all four could be static in that case
[01:01] <Lumpy> it is not like i do back flips while on the air
[01:01] <len-1304> I guess all could be static, three pointed close up on one person and one viewing all three. then you just neew a switcher/producer.
[01:01] <Lumpy> i gave that up when i stopped playing in rock bands
[01:02] <Lumpy> or i can multitask
[01:02] <Lumpy> which i can do poorly enough to make it into comedy :P
[01:02] <len-1304> :)
[01:21] <len-1304> http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/conference/ shows what I mean by needing people.
[01:23] <len-1304> Having worked in a TV studio, I have a reasonable idea what all the positions they mention do.... in fact I could add a few.
[01:23]  * len-1304 is off to play with the family
[01:29] <Lumpy> i will look that link over as well
[01:29] <Lumpy> i am burried with ework atm
[01:29] <Lumpy> thanks for making my list longer
[09:42] <smartboyhw> Hello
[09:42]  * smartboyhw zsyncs the image now:P
[09:43] <smartboyhw> len-1304, or Len-nb please also do the Post-installation test:)
[09:44] <smartboyhw> And can somebody run the upgrade tests? Might not have time to do so today
[09:48] <smartboyhw> zequence, any time?
[09:48] <smartboyhw> Jesus our release procedure hasn't been used at all
[09:51]  * smartboyhw tries to implement it:P
[09:54] <smartboyhw> First of all: Make release notes
[09:59] <smartboyhw> Second: Complete all tests
[09:59] <smartboyhw> !testers
[09:59] <smartboyhw> ..............
[09:59] <smartboyhw> Next time we really need to make use of ubottu
[10:04] <smartboyhw> And next time we need a template for Release Notes
[10:28] <zequence> smartboyhw: I will be doing all of the tests during this week for both archs, np
[10:28] <smartboyhw> zequence, eh Beta 1 is today:P
[10:28] <smartboyhw> zequence, I am starting to think of removing the upgrade tests once-and-for-all
[10:30] <zequence> smartboyhw: Do that. We haven't put any effort on it, and only if we think it should work should we test it
[10:30] <smartboyhw> zequence, +1
[10:30] <zequence> Better we recommend people to do a fresh install
[10:31] <zequence> I might have misunderstood about the beta1. I thought we do testing after it's released, but you're saying we need to test it before release
[10:31] <smartboyhw> zequence, of course we do testing BEFORE betas:p
[10:32] <smartboyhw> That's what ISO testing means
[10:32] <smartboyhw> To probably test the images before releaes
[10:34] <zequence> Ok, I can do the amd64 tests today
[10:34] <zequence> Too bad I didn't bring my usb stick
[10:36] <smartboyhw> zequence, well do the i386
[10:36] <smartboyhw> I did the amd64 already
[10:36] <smartboyhw> zequence, but do you mean the upgrade ones or?
[10:36] <zequence> smartboyhw: So, you filled out the wrong arch?
[10:37] <zequence> It says i386 (2/2)
[10:37] <smartboyhw> Actually what we are missing now is a post-installation one
[10:37] <smartboyhw> zequence, I think that's not me
[10:37] <smartboyhw> zequence, that's len-1304 LOL
[10:37] <smartboyhw> ROFL
[10:37] <zequence> Ah, I hadn't refreshed
[10:38] <zequence> Ok, so post-installation for i386. 
[10:38] <zequence> I'll be ready in one hour or so
[10:39] <smartboyhw> zequence, good:)
[10:41] <smartboyhw> zequence, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/Beta1/UbuntuStudio good enough?
[10:56] <zequence> smartboyhw: The rock wallpaper is not default yet
[10:56] <smartboyhw> zequence, eh isn't it!?
[10:56] <zequence> It's only changed for the beta so far, and we can replace it
[10:56] <smartboyhw> zequence, then we can say "Temporaily default wallpaper for Beta 1":P
[11:00] <smartboyhw> zequence, is it OK? I think we need to get the release annoucement on ubuntustudio.org a.s.a.p so we can provide the link to the Ubuntu Release team
[11:00] <smartboyhw> s/it/the release notes/
[11:00] <kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "zequence, is the release notes OK? I think we need to get the release annoucement on ubuntustudio.org a.s.a.p so we can provide the link to the Ubuntu Release team"
[11:00] <smartboyhw> NO I mean my suggested edit
[11:00] <smartboyhw> Damn
[11:09] <smartboyhw> Sort of a checklist in real time: http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/2bq42lItlT
[11:12] <zequence> smartboyhw: Looks good to me
[11:12] <smartboyhw> zequence, OK:)
[11:23] <smartboyhw> zequence, it's high time we ask for marking the images ready
[11:27] <smartboyhw> Now let's get the things kicked out (the annoucements + channel topics)
[11:38] <smartboyhw> The release notes are in http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/ubuntu-studio-13-04-beta-1-release-notes/ now
[11:39] <smartboyhw> zequence, please make a proper annoucement:)
[12:04] <zequence> smartboyhw: When will the beta links appear, do you thinkg?
[12:04] <zequence> think?
[12:04] <zequence> ..for the ISOs
[12:05] <zequence> We don't have http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/13.04 yet
[12:14] <zequence> len-1304: The only change before user interface freeze I want to do is add maybe on or two wallpapers that have been submitted, and possibly change the default, if that is what people want
[12:29] <zequence> smartboyhw: I can't make any announcements before we have the betas ready. I guess they are building?
[12:59] <Len-nb> I thought I did them all for 32bit
[12:59] <Len-nb> Sorry if I missed filling one.
[13:00] <Len-nb> Or is there another roll?
[13:07] <zequence> len-1304: There was just the post install bit, testing jack a bit
[13:07] <zequence> The ISO is marked ready now
[13:22] <smartboyhw> zequence, you need to wait till the Ubuntu Release team publishs it
[13:23] <zequence> So, we only really have two areas of workitems in the blueprints left to be done. I didn't want to touch scotts blueprints, I'd rather he changed them himself. And there's no particular hurry.
[13:23] <zequence> The last workitem in the audio workflow is not really release based.
[13:23] <zequence> I should just move it
[13:25] <smartboyhw> zequence, :)
[13:26] <zequence> Actually, it already was in two places. We have a blueprint for SRUs
[13:26] <zequence> Ok, so just the artwork left then, which is how it should be
[13:26] <smartboyhw> zequence, :)
[13:34] <len-1304> zequence, I have to click the submit button.
[14:10] <len-1304> exit
[14:10] <smartboyhw> len-1304, !?
[14:10] <smartboyhw> ....
[14:10] <smartboyhw> ttoine, hello
[14:10]  * len-1304 want focus follows mind
[14:10] <smartboyhw> ttoine, we are to release 13.04 Beta 1 soon:)
[14:11]  * smartboyhw really hates doing last-minute testing:P
[14:11] <smartboyhw> Kubuntu + UbuntuKylin....
[14:24] <zequence> Leaving the "office", bb in a couple of hours (might stop by somewhere to buy a switch)
[14:24] <smartboyhw> zequence, bye bye
[16:15] <zequence> smartboyhw: I see you made an announcement
[16:15] <zequence> And yet, there is no beta
[16:16] <smartboyhw> zequence, stgraber needs a link so....
[16:16] <zequence> smartboyhw: No need to publish it
[16:16] <zequence> Anyway, I can edit the post
[16:16] <smartboyhw> ok
[16:17] <zequence> There's no point in announcing something that isn't yet decided or release, such as the wallpaper
[16:24] <smartboyhw> ok
[16:30] <zequence> smartboyhw: What I did now is I made it private
[16:30] <zequence> But, making it a draft is probably better
[16:30] <zequence> It has a link even if it's only a draft
[16:31] <zequence> When it's private, only people who have editing rights will see it
[16:31] <smartboyhw> ok
[16:36] <zequence> smartboyhw: Good work on the release notes and so forth. I could add you to facebook as a content creater, to let you announce the release on all sites, but I don't have control of our G+ page
[16:37] <zequence> Maybe I can do it this time, and once I've talked to Scott, we could add you so you can make the final announcments (final beta, etc)
[16:37] <zequence> smartboyhw: I think it would be a good idea that you always let someone review what you have written before you post though
[16:38] <zequence> Just to have a second pair of eyes look through the text
[18:54] <zequence> I'm going to put together a selection of the wallpapers that have been submitted so far
[18:54] <zequence> I was hoping Scott would appear and comment on this
[18:55] <zequence> Because of the lack of time, I think it'll be hard to put together any kind of community vote
[18:55] <tbo_> Hi
[18:55] <zequence> tbo_: Hello
[18:58] <tbo_> I just tried to download the 13.04 Beta 1 image of UbuntuStudio but the link says only 404 not found :-(   (at http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/03/ubuntu-studio-13-04-beta-1-testing-is-now-on/)
[18:58] <zequence> ..and the idea of the community participating in art selection maybe is not the best idea anyway.
[18:58] <zequence> tbo_: It's not built yet
[18:58] <zequence> tbo_: I made that page private. Are you still seeing it?
[18:59] <zequence> hmm, seems so
[18:59] <tbo_> ah, ok... there was another link at the bottom of the page, that works
[19:01] <zequence> tbo_: The other link is not the official Beta 1, but the testing version for beta 1
[19:01] <zequence> It's almost the same
[19:06] <tbo_> I'll give it a try :-)
[20:06] <zequence> Ok, so I put up the wallpapers. I'll give it a couple of days. If Scott doesn't show up before Monday or so, I think we should just go ahead and decide for ourselves
[21:28] <Len-nb> zequence, redoing hexter categories in desktop file.
[21:28] <Len-nb> removed audiovideo :P
[21:29] <zequence> Len-nb: We should push that upstream to Debian
[21:29] <Len-nb> Has audio, but there is no generator category in the opendesktop pages.
[21:29] <Len-nb> Ya I am making a diff
[21:29] <zequence> IMO generator is not a valid category
[21:29] <Len-nb> I am guessing I will add MIDI,
[21:30] <zequence> It's a software instrument, virtual synthesizer
[21:30] <Len-nb> They have an X-sequencer, but that is not standard
[21:30] <Len-nb> There is no standard category for that
[21:30] <zequence> Maybe there should be
[21:30] <zequence> Software instrument is a known conept
[21:30] <zequence> concept
[21:30] <Len-nb> sorry they have X-Synthesis.
[21:31] <Len-nb> I agree.
[21:31] <zequence> If I would guess, whoever made the categories for freedesktop wasn't that deeply involved in audio
[21:31] <Len-nb> I would think audio,MIDI,Instrument would be make sense
[21:32] <Len-nb> There are updates... we should make ourselves involved I guess.
[21:32] <zequence> All of them apply. midi in, audio out
[21:32] <zequence> Yes, I think so
[21:32] <Len-nb> Well I have audio and midi.
[21:32] <zequence> We should put our effort on the details that we are experts at
[21:33] <zequence> midi can be misinformative though
[21:33] <Len-nb> Maybe a midi filter shold not have audio
[21:33] <zequence> Since it's not processing midi. Just controlled by it
[21:33] <zequence> audio seems like a very broad term, and could fit anything that was related to music production
[21:34] <Len-nb> I'm mostly thinking of being able to deal with it menu wise without modifying the menu on a per-app basis
[21:34] <zequence> It would be best if the menu used variables over custom entries, yes
[21:34] <Len-nb> synthisis is nice.
[21:35] <zequence> I think of these as tags
[21:35] <zequence> The problem with a menu, like the one in XFCE, and all the older desktops is that if you have too many tags, applications will flood the menu
[21:35] <zequence> This is not a problem in a dash
[21:36] <zequence> ..where you could use tags to properly describe any application, using as many tags as you want
[21:36] <Len-nb> XFCE menu can not flood with careful defining of subs.
[21:36]  * Len-nb has to pick son up.
[21:37] <zequence> It will if you start adding 4-5 tags to each desktop file
[21:38] <zequence> audio is a broad tag, and should probably be used on all audio related apps. For Hexter, Software Instrument would be my second choice
[21:39] <zequence> synthesis is true, but it's subordered to the concept of it being an instrument
[21:39] <zequence> In fact, "generation" should be renamed either "Software Instruments", or just "instruments"
[21:39] <zequence> Some instruments use synthesis, others samples
[21:42] <zequence> Len-nb: Ok, so if we add those categories/tags that absolutely work for each application, I'd agree on that being a good way to start
[21:43] <zequence> If we find that there should me more categories, like Software Instrument (which might be difficult to get in, cause it doesn't say it's audio related, btw), then we add those to a list, and work on getting them accepted to freedesktop
[21:54] <zequence> Len-nb: For the additional categories, there's "Related Categories", and that's what makes it possible to use names that don't immediately make everyone aware of what main category it belongs to http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apas02.html
[21:54] <zequence> So, I would really go for Software Instrument as the main additional category for Hexter
[21:59] <Len-nb> That where I was looking.
[22:01] <Len-nb> I think the idea is that you use at least one main category and then add to it to farther define it.
[22:01] <zequence> Yeah
[22:01] <Len-nb> That way a menu that only knows the main categories still works
[22:02] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FreedesktopCategories
[22:04] <zequence> If we can put together a list of possible categories, we can then argue which one are good to use, how they should be named, etc
[22:04] <Len-nb> I thought about plugin, but a plugin is never standalone
[22:04] <Len-nb> if it is it should be called by its function
[22:05] <zequence> Some applications are both
[22:05] <zequence> Software instruments often are both standalone, and can act as plugins, so both categories apply to those
[22:05] <Len-nb> Yes, but as a desktop menu item it should be called by its function not as a plugin.
[22:05] <zequence> True
[22:06] <Len-nb> You can't start a plugin, it is only used inside of another app
[22:06] <Len-nb> That is why the original hexter source does not have a desktop file
[22:11] <zequence> Some categories are really good, like sequencer, but some applications I'd rather have grouped under a category named DAW, or digital audio workstation
[22:11] <zequence> qtractor has sequencer ability, but it's not a mere sequencer
[22:12] <zequence> So, for qtractor, or Ardour3 (which now could also be tagged with sequencer) I'd rather list them as DAWs
[22:12] <zequence> In any way, these are categories that already exist, and are well established, so it makes sense adding them
[22:14] <zequence> Len-nb: There's a difference between plugin and effect too
[22:15] <zequence> A plugin could be either an effect, or an instrument
[22:15] <Len-nb> Yes.
[22:15] <Len-nb> ardour uses recorder
[22:17] <Len-nb> If they are consistent, it is at least usable
[22:18] <zequence> recorder is fine to me, but not the first word you'd use to describe it though
[22:18] <Len-nb> No but the standard list has it
[22:18] <zequence> It's more like a correct term, which defines one of its features
[22:18] <zequence> I'd use it for anything that has that capacity, but maybe not add a menu item for it
[22:19] <Len-nb> Back when a2 was started it wasn't a sequencer
[22:19] <Len-nb> Is in a3
[22:19] <zequence> That's why I said Ardour3
[22:19] <Len-nb> What I mean is I don't know if they have changed the category
[22:20] <zequence> I would say, added a category to existing ones
[22:20] <zequence> Or you mean in the desktop file?
[22:20] <zequence> I haven't looked at them yet
[22:20] <Len-nb> Yes.
[22:20] <zequence> I don't really care what they are now. They are probably all wrong anyway :P
[22:20] <Len-nb> I haven't looked yet.
[22:21] <zequence> I don't think anyone has put that much focus on this, at least not on a all encompassive level
[22:22] <zequence> Really perfect for us to do that, from where we are sitting
[22:22] <len-1304> Perhpas we should talk with some of the other audio distros.
[22:22] <len-1304> I'm thinking arch and the RH one at least
[22:22] <zequence> We could also just have a discussion on LAU
[22:23] <len-1304> LAD?
[22:23] <zequence> Or, whatever
[22:23] <len-1304> I should subscribe
[22:23] <zequence> for the big categories, I don't think there needs to be that much confusion
[22:24] <len-1304> Aeolus: Categories=AudioVideo;Audio;
[22:24] <zequence> Len-nb: btw, I think we could add the virtual keyboard to Midi Utilities
[22:24] <len-1304> OK
[22:26] <zequence> I'm going to relax for a bit. Getting late already. Going to study Debian maintenance all weekend
[22:27] <len-1304> PHASEX: Categories=AudioVideo;Audio;X-MIDI;X-Synthesis;X-JACK;X-Digital_Processing;
[22:28] <len-1304> theres a mouthful
[22:29] <zequence> I forget, what are the X categories? Auxiliary, custom?
[22:29] <zequence> They aren't freedesktop ones anyway
[22:29] <len-1304> I don't know. they are not mentioned in freeedesktop.
[22:30] <zequence> Digital processing is another good category, but also more technical. Not the kind you'd call a menu
[22:30] <len-1304> Qsynth: Categories=Audio;AudioVideo;Midi;X-Alsa;X-Jack;Qt;
[22:30] <len-1304> way too much info, I don't think these people think about what the desktop file will be used for.
[22:30] <zequence> Qt is an actual category
[22:31] <zequence> What do you mean by way too much info?
[22:31] <len-1304> Ya, a good menu maker might not display it if qt libs are not there.
[22:32] <len-1304> alsa and jack don't really help.
[22:32] <zequence> Not for making a menu
[22:32] <len-1304> synth would be nicer.
[22:32] <zequence> But, remember, these are not just for our menu
[22:32] <zequence> They are for anything desktop search related
[22:32] <len-1304> I am trying to think of a menu situation where it would help.
[22:33] <zequence> And, really, a dash is much more powerful, when it comes to this. Since you can have 10 tags on each desktop file, and that only makes it easier for you to find things
[22:33] <zequence> I'd encourage you to not only think about our menu, but at what freedesktop is used for universally
[22:33] <len-1304> Provided the user and the dev happen to have thought of the same term.
[22:34] <zequence> Or, else, there's no point in pushing anything upstream
[22:34] <zequence> Too many tags will never be a problem
[22:34] <len-1304> Well an audio only app should not have AudioVideo
[22:35] <zequence> The audiovideo category is for when you don't keep those two apart
[22:35] <len-1304> There are some apps (I can't think of any) that are video only, but not many.
[22:35] <zequence> Probably not very useful in modern menus
[22:36] <len-1304> Any menu can look for audio or video.
[22:36] <zequence> It's not really saying this application does both. It's saying this application is either one of those
[22:36] <len-1304> Ok, but then why both audio and audiovideo?
[22:37] <zequence> i don't know, but it says this "Desktop entry must include AudioVideo as well"
[22:37] <zequence> For both audio and video
[22:37] <zequence> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
[22:37] <zequence> I think some menus did not have those separate
[22:37] <zequence> I don't really know/remember
[22:39] <len-1304> probably dates back to the original gnome/kde menu
[22:43] <zequence> Len-nb: Have to say, the menu is starting to feel very mature now
[22:43] <zequence> Also with the new icons and everything
[22:44] <len-1304> Ya, but it is, as you say, too customized
[22:44] <zequence> Len-nb: I added this page, which you can find in the tab-menu under the header part of each page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows
[22:44] <zequence> Workflows, that is
[22:44] <zequence> And in it, I put the freedesktop categories
[22:45] <len-1304> how about pluginContainer.
[22:45] <zequence> I think plugins is still a valid category, even if it would never be used in a menu
[22:45] <zequence> plugincontainer is not a word you would use
[22:45] <zequence> It's not something people are using right now
[22:45] <len-1304> I am thinking jackrack etc
[22:46] <zequence> plugin host
[22:46] <zequence> That's the correct term
[22:46] <len-1304> Ok
[22:48] <len-1304> It would be nice to be able to differentiate between SW meant for creation and SW for content playback
[22:48] <len-1304> I was thinking proaudio before that, but that doesn't make sense
[22:49] <zequence> I think "media player" might be a correct word for apps like VLC, totem, etc
[22:49] <len-1304> Ya.
[22:50] <len-1304> There is one called just "player"
[22:51] <len-1304> With things like ardour and qtracktor the category Development could be useful.
[22:52] <zequence> development?
[22:52] <len-1304> It could break some simple menu setups though
[22:52] <len-1304> creating music is development.
[22:52] <zequence> I only couple that with software development
[22:52] <zequence> I've never heard anyone say that, tbh
[22:52] <len-1304> It _would_ be confusing
[22:54] <zequence> I think common terms are the best. Technical terms are best used as auxiliary categories for finer searches (even if not used in menus). 
[22:54] <zequence> Sometimes they are one and the same
[22:55] <zequence> When I say technical, I mean like "digital processing" compared to "plugin"
[22:55] <zequence> or "effect", I mean
[22:55] <len-1304> nothing here to help with hexter though.
[22:55] <zequence> not pluging
[22:55] <zequence> Len-nb: Add the ones that apply for now. Then, let's complete the list of things we'd like to push upstream. 
[22:56] <zequence> If we get a change upstream, we add those categories to desktop files
[22:57] <zequence> As for the menu, it all depends on what is practical. Makes no sense to have one menu per app, so that fine categorization is not needed. I'd like a DAW category, but that may also not be needed
[22:57] <zequence> Actually, it might make sense to have a "jack tools" or "jack control" category/menu
[22:57] <len-1304> I don't want to see DAWs in a sub menu really.
[22:57] <zequence> But, that might not work as a standard
[22:58] <zequence> DAW is definitely a category that would be useful in desktop files, while maybe not in the menu
[22:58] <len-1304> It would be good to get Mixer in all the Mixers.
[22:59] <len-1304> I will just fix the icon in hexter for now. I will leave the categories alone.
[23:00] <len-1304> There are sure a lot of game subcategories.
[23:00] <zequence> Right now, two items that seem misplaced IMO are virtual keyboard, and meterbridge. Also Jamin, which is more of an effect
[23:01] <len-1304> kb can move
[23:01] <zequence> The rest in that section are DAWs, sequencers, that kind of apps
[23:01] <zequence> And we have a nice jack control section also
[23:02] <zequence> I'd rename "Sound Generators" to "Instruments"
[23:02] <zequence> Or "Software Instruments", which is more correct
[23:02] <len-1304> meter bridge... I don't know where unless we make a jack utils submenu.
[23:03] <len-1304> I agree.
[23:03] <len-1304> Are we trying to do this before 13.04? or after?
[23:03] <zequence> No, from now on the only thing we change for 13.04 is artwork
[23:04] <len-1304> So we should not really touch settings till after release.
[23:04] <len-1304> so we can change only artwork.
[23:04] <zequence> If we find bugs, it might be a lot of work to get them fixed, and having this amount of time before final release is actually a pretty good thing for us
[23:04] <zequence> No, we should not touch the seeds
[23:05] <zequence> One could make a new branch though
[23:05] <zequence> I'm working a bit on my PA problems, which I still don't know what they are about. Could be alsa drivers, who knows. This audio device i've never seen anywhere else
[23:05] <len-1304> the menu is in settings. It is just one file though. I can play with it where ever. I need to do the same with the settings manager.
[23:05] <zequence> We should do upgrade testing
[23:06] <zequence> I might be a little bias, but I feel pretty comfortable with the wallpaper I did
[23:07] <zequence> Feels very natural
[23:07] <len-1304> It doesn't get in the way.
[23:07] <zequence> It's a bit darker than I originally planned
[23:07] <zequence> It's good that it's discrete
[23:08] <zequence> I really like the one with Chinese patterns, but I don't feel ok with having it as default
[23:08] <len-1304> but I am not really visual. We need an art department :)
[23:08] <zequence> Yeah
[23:09] <zequence> Ok, I better wander off here. Will be studying Debian all weekend. Looking forward to it. Talk to you later
[23:09] <len-1304> In someways, a workflow database would be nice too.
[23:09] <len-1304> K bye now.