[10:46] <knome> we need a few tests...
[10:48] <knome> pleia2, and we need a beta 1 announcement
[10:49] <knome> we also need to update the slideshow in a week
[11:24] <knome> fixed the bugs filed in slideshow, it should be all fine now
[11:28] <knome> pleia2, sorry for bombing your inbox again :P
[12:00] <knome> should we add gnumeric and gimp launchers back to the popup panel?
[12:02] <knome> bluesabre, which iso did you download? i386 or amd64?
[12:04] <bluesabre> i386
[12:04] <knome> ok, i'll do amd64 then
[12:05] <knome> meh, the "file type associations" test is boring, there's no files installed by default in your home
[12:06] <knome> screensaver testing is boring too :)
[12:07] <bluesabre> knome, upgrade tests?  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39547/testcases
[12:07] <knome> bluesabre, hideously, they are not in the "xubuntu" product
[12:07] <knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/261/builds/39522/testcases
[12:07] <bluesabre> oh
[12:07] <bluesabre> thats why nobody does them ;)
[12:07] <knome> yes.
[12:08] <knome> i'll talk with balloons.
[12:08] <bluesabre> won't be able to do the update-manager test
[12:08] <bluesabre> no network at the office
[12:08] <knome> aha
[12:08] <knome> what kind of office is that?
[12:09] <knome> even one test is good though.
[12:10] <knomester> hello!
[12:11] <knome> desktop test passes!
[12:11] <bluesabre> cool
[12:12] <knome> now meh, the upgrade tests
[12:12] <bluesabre> gotta go
[12:12] <bluesabre> bbl
[12:12] <knome> hf
[12:14] <knome> getting the i386 first, it seems
[12:14] <knome> i'll run the update-manager test for that 
[12:20] <knome> i have a cool idea.
[12:20] <knome> let's create a small ISO with "sample content" that people can use to test stuff.
[12:20] <knome> or let's add some to the xubuntu iso, alternatively
[12:40] <knome> how can i run an upgrade test from Q to R if i can't get Q installing?
[14:06]  * smartboyhw waves
[14:06] <knome> hello.
[14:16] <GridCube> hi
[14:16] <smartboyhw> GridCube, /me waves
[14:23] <GridCube> wusup
[16:03] <GridCube> knome, for the wallpaper issue, we have the deviantART group we are not using at all
[17:50] <knome> GridCube, i know. but that's not the scope of this wallpaper-gathering anyway
[17:51] <GridCube> ok :) just saying
[17:52] <knome> yes, we should get the deviantart group fixed asap too
[17:55] <knome> i think one of the important things is to decide/see where it falls, eg. what's the purpose
[17:55] <knome> because it's clearly not a communication method, it's not something the team should use when working with new artwork
[17:56] <knome> we also don't want to fix any submission to deviantart or flickr any more, they should be on the wiki or the mailing list for archiving purposes
[18:03] <GridCube> i see, but deviantART community is huge, and it would gather a rather nice amount of people if we offered them some incentive, like, make a nice wallpaper, it could be featured on an operative system release with your name in it, winkwink
[18:03] <knome> yes, but we don't want to promise that
[18:04] <knome> and what's the benefit of having a "nice amount of people" who only want their wallpaper included on the distro?
[18:04] <knome> that's the easiest job/task, i'd rather get *one* new contributor that could help with the heavy lifting
[18:05] <knome> having to pick a wallpaper from many and again many submissions only make our workload bigger
[18:06] <knome> and as other distros' "contests" have shown us, somebody from the team needs to make the pick unless you want to tell your community that you're not picking the wallpapers they voted the most
[18:06] <GridCube> knome, thats just an example
[18:07] <knome> please point me to a better example, where our workload doesn't dramatically rise?
[18:07] <GridCube> knome, yes i understand, it has its issues, but its just there
[18:08] <knome> but being just there is not providing incentive.
[18:08] <pleia2> oh good, knome is back
[18:08] <GridCube> true, but we arent doing anything else tho, being just there is worthless
[18:08] <knome> i am.
[18:08] <knome> GridCube, yes, i understand and agree.
[18:08] <bluesabre_> I think it has its purpose, maybe not for aggregating potential distro includes, but rather a place for people that want to make their work more easily available for other xubuntu lovers
[18:09] <knome> bluesabre_, this is again just an example, but when you say that, i think "xfce-look.org" and then i think "omg"
[18:09] <GridCube> mmhm yes, like showing your desktop, sharing modification, explaining how to get them
[18:09] <bluesabre_> lol
[18:09] <bluesabre_> xfce-look is a bit outrageous
[18:10] <knome> i don't think it's realistic that we would moderate everything on the group, but we can try to steer the direction
[18:10] <knome> i would definitely back up the idea of "share your xubuntu screenshots here"
[18:10] <knome> but even that can create some "i must puke" -reactions, tbh...
[18:10] <bluesabre_> lol
[18:11] <GridCube> its not that complex. we set rules as what is an acceptable submission, we say for example, when you upload a desktop screenshot you need to explain what you did, what theme you are using, wich icons, what font, details
[18:11] <knome> bluesabre_, can you elaborate what you meant with "work" to be shared/made available?
[18:11] <GridCube> if its ugly people will just past it, if it nice it will stand out
[18:11] <bluesabre_> quality wps, themes, and screenshots of their desktop config
[18:12] <GridCube> exactly
[18:12] <bluesabre_> it doesn't have to be crap
[18:12] <GridCube> dual monitor wallpapers
[18:12] <knome> the point is that if there's going to be more ugly than nice, it's soon going to be a junkyard.
[18:12] <knome> bluesabre_, no, but we can't moderate everything
[18:12] <bluesabre_> true
[18:12] <knome> or even if we technically could... we can't.
[18:13] <bluesabre_> but we don't have to, it would be a completely community resource
[18:13] <knome> that's not realistic, and otoh i don't want to make any statements that people could interpret as "the xubuntu team thinks i'm/my setup is not worthy"
[18:13] <bluesabre_> we can have light moderation of course, but it can be steered in the right direction
[18:13] <knome> yeah.
[18:14] <knome> i'm wondering how we can steer that
[18:14] <bluesabre_> its really no different than our facebook and google+ communities
[18:14] <GridCube> knome, true, but you make rules, if people dont follow them then they are not showcased, if it turns into a junkyard then we are doing something wrong whit our time
[18:14] <GridCube> i dont think it will because i think xubuntu can be made beautiful.
[18:15] <bluesabre_> I think knome's concern is the "our time" part, we don't really need another resource sink
[18:15] <GridCube> and people with time and interest in subminting will show that
[18:15] <knome> GridCube, my point is that if it's start turning into a junkyard, people are just posting junk, and there's nothing we *should* do about that, because we shouldn't use our time in that
[18:15] <GridCube> oh, right, but i think we do, because desktops are in fight right now, and we should show ours its a very good option
[18:16] <knome> GridCube, i understand that xubuntu can be made beuatiful, but some people like "pink unicorn with hentai characters" wallpaper with "bubblybobbly-yellow-red" theme
[18:16] <GridCube> true
[18:16] <GridCube> and some other people does too, so they will like that user submition
[18:16] <knome> GridCube, for starters, i personally don't think there is any DE "war" (or at least i don't like to think it's a competition anyway)
[18:16] <knome> GridCube, the other point is that since we can't moderate the feed, it might or might not turn into a good showcase for our product
[18:17] <GridCube> we can moderate
[18:17] <knome> yes, technically, but again the point is that we shouldn't waste our time in that
[18:18] <knome> rather than doing that, i'd close the dA group and let the artowork team create one awesome wallpaper per cycle and post that everywhere
[18:18] <GridCube> and again, my point is that its not a waste of time. But we should leave this for other moment
[18:18] <knome> ...which is kind of what we're doing now
[18:18] <GridCube> knome, but we should integrate more of the users, make them care
[18:19] <knome> i understand your point of view completely, but from my point of view, i'd rather steer *your* time and other resources in something else than moderating any social network group
[18:19] <knome> something that we *know* will benefit xubuntu
[18:19] <GridCube> like?
[18:20] <knome> like anything on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-flavor-xubuntu.html
[18:20] <knome> like doing team reports weekly.
[18:21] <pleia2> fwiw, we can't actually tie something that has "pink unicorn with hentai characters" to xubuntu, this would have to live very much outside the ubuntu-sphere
[18:21] <GridCube> and how can any of those be made by non-xubuntu developers?
[18:21] <knome> s/hentai/anime/, that would make it guidelines-compliant :P
[18:21] <GridCube> not saying that we shouldn't do that
[18:21] <pleia2> knome: perhaps, but there is some pretty offensive anime too
[18:21] <GridCube> ah, nevermind, you are right
[18:22] <GridCube> if you and the rest are not willing to expend time on this there is no reason for me to do so
[18:22] <pleia2> I have to keep a pretty close eye on the facebook page to make sure people don't post awful screensots :(
[18:22] <knome> GridCube, well, you *are* a member of xubuntu-team, and if you work on something that needs more permissions and prove to do it well, we'll *get* you the permissions
[18:22] <knome> pleia2, i thought that was all simply called hentai :P
[18:23] <pleia2> knome: plenty that can happen without crossing that line that I really don't want to be exposed to :)
[18:23] <knome> GridCube, no, the point is we should make it clear to ourself what the purpose is
[18:23] <knome> pleia2, yeah, i agree. anime etc. falls to the same category than fantasy/scifi for me... and you know what that means :P
[18:24] <pleia2> hehe
[18:24] <pleia2> it's hard to moderate an image community
[18:24] <knome> yes, and we don't want to waste the time in that
[18:24] <bluesabre_> knome definitely googled that to figure out the difference
[18:24] <pleia2> lol
[18:24] <knome> bluesabre_, hah. :)
[18:24] <pleia2> "what is that in your browser history?" "I was doing research for xubuntu!" "NO MORE XUBUNTU FOR YOU"
[18:25] <knome> well there's the private browsing mode
[18:25] <pleia2> lol
[18:25] <knome> for umm... present shopping
[18:25]  * knome whistles
[18:25] <bluesabre_> :D
[18:26] <knome> GridCube, i don't know dA technically... but theoretically, could we moderate the group in a way that *nothing* gets through unless we approve it?
[18:27] <knome> that with some volunteers from the dA community (who have proved to be fine) might be a solution
[18:27] <knome> because i just kind of understood what pleia2 said too, there's something we definitely don't want to get published under any circumstances
[18:28] <bluesabre_> knome, I'm surprised I didn't get a blueprint assigned to me this cycle, with the exception of get mentored, which I have so far failed at :)
[18:28] <knome> bluesabre_, you probably should have been more active with it then
[18:28] <knome> ;)=
[18:28] <bluesabre_> but everybody wants a pretty media player!
[18:29] <knome> the point is, i can't force anybody take any blueprints/work items
[18:29] <bluesabre_> x.x
[18:29] <knome> there are a lot which are assigned the to various xubuntu teams
[18:29] <GridCube> knome, yes, you can even make so you need the vote of 2 or more people to let something reach the group gallery
[18:29] <bluesabre_> true
[18:29] <knome> GridCube, i don't think even that goes. it would need to get through specific moderators
[18:30] <knome> the problem is we don't know at all how much submissions we're going to get
[18:30] <GridCube> you can get suggestions or submisions, they are different
[18:30] <GridCube> suggestions will make it so the group points to the user that created the content, submissions will showcase them inside the group
[18:31] <GridCube> you can have "favourites" too, that has its own gallery
[18:31] <GridCube> as said, there is a lot of ways to moderate and to "detach" from the content
[18:32] <knome> can you moderate suggestions as well?
[18:33] <GridCube> you can make that people can only suggest from certain sections, i think, like they submit a wallpaper to the wallpaper section and suggest it, but if they subbmit it to the photography/erotic/pinups then no
[18:33] <knome> that would work too
[18:34] <knome> though people can still post to "wrong" section
[18:34] <GridCube> yes
[18:34] <knome> don't know how quickly they'll be taken down
[18:34] <GridCube> but thats handled by deviantART administration, it depends on the amount of reports
[18:34] <knome> aha
[18:35] <GridCube> yeah, well life ain't perfect
[18:35] <knome> the problem is that the moderation in dA goes clearly in different order than in FOSS
[18:36] <knome> in FOSS, you prove yourself trusted first, then you'll get access
[18:36] <knome> in dA, you can push things right away, and then you *might* get the "untrusted" status
[18:36] <knome> or, in other words, "lose your access"
[18:38] <knome> anyway, i don't want to make anybody waste their time doing dA moderation, not because i don't think the dA group is worthy or can be useful but just because i think there are better things to do too
[18:39] <Unit193> Like moderate the -users list?
[18:40] <knome> well tbh even that is a waste of time...
[18:41] <pleia2> that's why we don't moderate every post of the users list
[18:41] <pleia2> but you would have to in an image community
[18:41] <knome> but at least the list has a purpose and is potentially helpful for a significant proportion of our users
[18:41] <GridCube> true
[18:42] <GridCube> as said, if not enough energy and interest is put toward this then it makes no sense for me to do so
[18:42] <GridCube> i can't be doing this alone
[18:42] <knome> i'm not against it fundamentally. it
[18:42] <GridCube> i understand
[18:42] <knome> i just don't want us to use too much resources into it
[18:43] <GridCube> im not blaming you or anything, i completely understand
[18:43] <GridCube> i think it would be nice, thats all
[18:44] <knome> since i don't know dA technically or it's social circles, it's really hard for me to evaluate how big chances there are that the group fails
[18:45] <knome> i'd wait for input from ochosi to the discussion we just had, then see where we are at
[19:45] <lderan> quick query is the bug list for xubuntu here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team or here https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev or is it both?
[19:46] <mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[19:47] <lderan> ah awesome thanks
[20:07] <ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
[20:48]  * astraljava got good news today at work; the head honcho was visiting, and we discussed the future strategies. As we're moving more towards appstore-installable products, I naturally asked whether they had plans for bringing it into USC. He was not really aware of Ubuntu's momentum. Cut the story short, I might get part-time promotion to core dev crew within the linux scope.
[20:49] <ochosi> awesome! congrats astraljava 
[20:50] <astraljava> Too early for any of that, but thanks. Definitely made me contemplate the job in a little bit more positive light.
[20:51] <astraljava> I'll try to dig up some numbers to show some estimates why it could be beneficial to put some effort in that area.
[20:51] <pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/raring-beta1/ \o/
[20:51] <astraljava> Uh oh, dang. Totally forgot about beta.
[20:51] <astraljava> And I'm on mobile broadband for the weekend. :-/
[20:54] <lderan> hopefully congrats astraljava \o/
[20:54]  * micahg hopes we get good feedback from beta 1
[20:54] <ochosi> hey micahg 
[20:55] <ochosi> is there still time for gtk-theme-config?
[20:56] <micahg> if it's needed, sure
[20:57] <micahg> ochosi: please file the FFe paperwork per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[20:57] <micahg> and feel free to subscribe me
[20:57] <ochosi> ok
[20:57] <ochosi> well, 'needed'
[20:58] <micahg> I say needed since any new source at this point requires release team approval
[20:58] <ochosi> it's a small script with UI that let's you change your gtk-theme's colors
[20:58] <ochosi> that's handy, but not critical
[20:58] <ochosi> good for accessability though
[20:58] <micahg> if it's something we're targeting for 13.04, go ahead and file the FFe
[20:58] <ochosi> yeah, will do
[21:21] <ochosi> micahg: see bug #1155335
[21:21] <ochosi> (hope this is fine)
[21:26]  * micahg subscribed -release and himself
[21:26] <micahg> ochosi: thanks
[21:27] <ochosi> hm, i thoughht i subscribed you...
[21:27] <ochosi> on the ipad this was not a very easy task :)
[21:27] <ochosi> micahg: well thank you!
[21:28] <micahg> hrm ,maybe you did
[21:28] <micahg> yes, you did
[21:29] <micahg> I didn't notice
[21:29] <ochosi> k :)
[21:58] <knome> yay, release
[21:59] <knome> heh, looks like somebody typoed the blog article title :D
[22:02] <pleia2> oops, many ns
[22:03] <knome> i'm sure it was me
[22:03] <knome> i just fixed it in x.org
[22:03] <knome> probably no reason to fix on twitter or other social media outlets
[22:04] <pleia2> yeah
[22:04] <knome> astraljava, shiny!
[22:05] <knome> ochosi, you still around?
[22:10] <Unit193> knome: He isn't.
[22:10] <knome> ah, so he said