[00:18] <JanC> matge: I never used it; be sure to file a bug report
[00:19] <matge> JanC: I'm trying to get a minimal crashing example together
[00:19] <JanC> good  ☺
[00:36] <matge> JanC: reported at https://bugs.launchpad.net/qt-folks/+bug/1155382
[00:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1155382 in qt-folks "[crash] QContactManager is accessed after deletion" [Undecided,New]
[00:47] <JanC> matge: #ubuntu-touch might be interested in this bug too  ;)
[00:47] <JanC> (if it's a bug)
[09:51] <VeldMuijz> hi all
[09:51] <VeldMuijz> I'm looking for the videos that aired yesterday
[09:51] <VeldMuijz> i missed the live session and like to view them
[09:56] <VeldMuijz> anybody awake here?
[09:58] <krobotas> VeldMuijz, did you check on http://www.youtube.com/UbuntuOnAir ?
[10:01] <VeldMuijz> It's so simple, th krobotas
[10:01] <VeldMuijz> thx*
[12:10] <dholbach> hiya
[12:10] <dholbach> are Diego Sarmentero or Matthias Gehre around right now?
[12:13] <brejoc> hi @all
[12:35] <John_____> is the calendar app on the default download image?  i cant see it...
[12:35] <dany_> ew
[12:35] <dany_> guys
[12:36] <dany_> ??
[13:30] <aquarius> isn't there a desktop-file parameter I can pass to qmlscene?
[13:31] <aquarius> I thought there was, but I can't find any documentation about it :(
[13:32] <aquarius> mhall119, also, just discovered https://github.com/brambram/UbuntuPhoneRedditApp :)
[13:32] <metallictad> thanks
[13:33] <metallictad> quit
[13:35] <mhall119> aquarius: oh noes! competition!
[13:35] <aquarius> mhall119, that would be "an opportunity for you to work together", I think you meant there ;)
[13:36] <aquarius> mhall119, also, lol. :)
[13:36] <mhall119> wow 2 months ago? I really am re-inventing the wheeel
[13:37] <aquarius> mhall119, perhaps you know this: can I make a qml app show an icon on the launcher? --desktop_file_hint doesn't seem to work, although that may be because the .desktop file I've written doesn't have full absolute paths to the icon in it (because that would be stupid)
[13:37] <mhall119> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[13:37] <mhall119> :(
[13:37] <aquarius> heh. I've had qmlscene segfault a few times today. Some sort of weird problem when resizing. Which is discouraging.
[13:37] <mhall119> aquarius: yeah, I'm guessing it's because of the icon path
[13:38] <aquarius> mhall119, so... I'm supposed to do: qmlscene --desktop_file_hint=/full/paht/tp/whatever.desktop something.qml... and the .desktop file has to have a full path to the icon in it?
[13:38] <mhall119> it's all interpreted, why is it core dumping?
[13:38] <mhall119> aquarius: as far as I know, I've not actually dug into that
[13:38] <aquarius> forgive me for being blunt about this, but that's stupid and actively hostile to the idea of developing an application without installing it as root. :(
[13:39] <aquarius> ah well. I shall experiment. :)
[13:39] <aquarius> core dumping -- I do believe it is an opengl/video drivers/x/mesa/something problem
[13:39] <aquarius> I filed a few bugs earlier when apport did its "qmlscene crashed! as did loads of other stuff" thing
[13:39] <mhall119> aquarius: you can make a whatever-local.desktop and hard-code your current icon path in there
[13:39] <aquarius> oh, sure, but it's still dim ;)
[13:39] <mhall119> fun
[13:40] <aquarius> bah. No icon, still
[13:41] <mhall119> other apps run fine in qmlscene
[13:41] <aquarius> does the "Exec" line have to actually match? That is: do I have to create a one-line shell script called "myapp" which just does "qmlscene myapp.qml" so that the Exec line in the desktop file matches?
[13:42] <mhall119> aquarius: no idea
[13:42] <mhall119> qmlscene seems...."special"
[13:42] <aquarius> hrmph. And I don't know who actually knows about this stuff, either.
[13:42] <aquarius> greyback, do you know abou tthis sort of thing?
[13:43] <greyback> aquarius: catching up...
[13:44] <greyback> aquarius: you want to add launcher icon on phone/tablet?
[13:44] <greyback> or desktop?
[13:44] <aquarius> greyback, no. I just want to, when I run a thing with qmlscene on my desktop, have it show a launcher icon that I choose ratehr than then question mark icon :)
[13:44] <aquarius> I'm not worried, for now, about adding that icon permanently or anything
[13:47] <greyback> aquarius: yep you've come across problem with bamf/the application matching on the desktop. While yes you can create a desktop file, it seems ot match based on the command in the "Exec" line only. So all qmlscene apps are just lumped together in one launcher tile
[13:47] <greyback> aquarius: the 1 line script I'd expect to work, but ..yeah..
[13:48] <greyback> not good, needs proper solution. I hope SDK will do all this for you soon.
[13:48] <aquarius> greyback, ok. Does the exec line have to match just by name, or by path as well? That is, if I have Exec=myapp, and I do ./myapp to run the one-line shell script, will that work? Or do I have to have Exec=/home/aquarius/Programs/Mine/myapp/myapp and actually run it with full path too?
[13:48] <greyback> aquarius: I don't know off memory, sorry
[13:48] <aquarius> OK, I shall experiment, and thank you.
[13:48] <aquarius> bamf seems to be not really set up to make my life any easier. :(
[13:49] <mhall119> aquarius: greyback: IIRC, bzoltan's team was going to replace qmlscene with a wrapper app that had better Unity integration
[13:49] <greyback> aquarius: please let me know what you find.
[13:49] <greyback> mhall119: right, but it'll have same issue. If you run multiple versions of "qmlwrapper {1,2,3}.qml" right now on desktop they'll all be lumped together by bamf
[13:51] <popey> greyback: are we tracking that qmlscene / bamf issue?
[13:51] <popey> (in a bug)
[13:52] <aquarius> greyback, just to confirm... is it definitely qmlscene --desktop_file_hint=whatever.desktop ?
[13:52] <greyback> popey: not that I'm aware of
[13:52] <aquarius> greyback, I know that you're not really the expert here, but I don't even know how to find out :)
[13:52] <greyback> aquarius: on phone or tablet, yes. On desktop, let me find out, 1 sec
[13:54] <greyback> aquarius: you need to copy your desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications/
[13:54] <aquarius> what?
[13:54] <greyback> popey: not that I know of, would be worth doing
[13:54] <aquarius> I *have* to? I can't specify a full path to it?
[13:54] <greyback> aquarius: bamf/xdg only looks for desktop files in certain directories
[13:54] <aquarius> it is actually *impossible* to run an application from its checkout directory?
[13:55]  * aquarius looks properly irritated.
[13:55] <popey> we can tell
[13:55] <greyback> aquarius: if there is a way to define extra .desktop file directories at runtime, I don't know it.
[13:55] <aquarius> greyback, sure. Sorry, I don't mean to shout at you: this is not your fault.
[13:55] <popey> i am reading all your irc community in your native tone of voice aquarius ☺
[13:55] <greyback> aquarius: and I'm totally agreeing with you
[13:55] <popey> *communication
[13:56] <aquarius> next release of bamf will, presumably, prevent me from using the letter "e" or something.
[13:56] <aquarius> OK, so, I need to do something different from unproductively whining about this
[13:56] <popey> Mirv: when we deploy apps to the device from the sdk, we should probably copy the .desktop file to the ~/.local/share/applications to cater for ^^ this
[13:56] <aquarius> which suggests that I should have a chat with whoever owns bamf and find out *why* it's like it.
[13:56] <aquarius> that used to be Jason Smith before he left...
[13:58] <aquarius> changelog suggests Marco Trevisan.
[13:58] <greyback> aquarius: indeed. But it's following the spec[1]  //you don't really need to read it http://www.nautilus-actions.org/?q=node/377
[13:58] <aquarius> yeah
[13:59] <aquarius> the answer to "why is it like it" is indeed allowed to be "because that's how desktop files are meant to work".
[13:59] <greyback> aquarius: but I totally agree, this is a giant turd
[13:59] <mhall119> popey: we can probably do some tricks with XDG_DATA_DIRS env variables to let it find a local .desktop
[13:59] <aquarius> however, the existence of --desktop_file_hint in the first place does rather suggest that we're allowing an explicit override.
[13:59] <aquarius> mhall119, ooooooh. fearful. That's well dangerous.
[13:59] <mhall119> aquarius: it's how quickly did it
[14:00] <greyback> aquarius: that's our complete do-over solution for Mir/Unity-Next
[14:00] <aquarius> mhall119, ya, but then LocalStorage databases will get written somewhere weird. :)
[14:00] <greyback> mhall119: aha, I dismissed it immediately, good point
[14:00] <aquarius> for a start. :)
[14:00] <mhall119> aquarius: why would it affect LocalStorage?
[14:01] <aquarius> mhall119, because when you create a LS database, it's written inside xdg_data_dirs.
[14:01] <mhall119> all of them?
[14:01] <aquarius> yep.
[14:01] <greyback> aquarius: for Mir/UnityNext, UI applications are closely tied to their desktop files. As in, you don't launch an app really, you launch it's .desktop file
[14:01] <mhall119> aquarius: lies
[14:01] <aquarius> mhall119, .local/share/Qt Project/QtQmlViewer/QML/OfflineStorage/Databases/
[14:02] <greyback> aquarius: how exactly you launch CLI apps conveniently (i.e. not always writing --desktop_file_hint), I'm not certain of yet though
[14:02] <aquarius> greyback, right. That sounds OK, although once again I don't see how I can run stuff from its checkout folder. :)
[14:02] <mhall119> aquarius: I think we're talking about different env variables
[14:03] <greyback> aquarius: yep, I don't have an answer for you yet either. Am still looking
[14:03] <aquarius> mhall119, the reason it's in .local/share at all is that that's your xdg-data-dir. If you define XDG_DATA_HOME to be ~/foo then those DBs will be in ~/foo/Qt Project/QtQmlViewer... (or it's a serious Qt bug).
[14:04] <aquarius> greyback, you are allowed to answer "it's not possible. Live with the pain". :)
[14:04] <greyback> aquarius: I don't like giving up easily :)
[14:04] <mhall119> aquarius: XDG_DATA_DIRS is a list of directories, and ~/.local/ isn't in it
[14:04] <noya> hello
[14:05] <mhall119> aquarius: again, I think we're talking about different variables
[14:06] <aquarius> mhall119, aah. xdg_data_dirs defines base folders to look in for stuff -- at system level. xdg_data_home defines a single user-specific folder to write to. I get you now.
[14:06] <mhall119> aquarius: right, so if you append your cwd to XDG_DATA_DIRS, it will look in `cwd`/applications/ for your .desktop file
[14:07] <aquarius> mhall119, which I have just tried, and *still* no icon :)
[14:08] <aquarius> as greyback says, this is unnecessarily hard :)
[14:10] <greyback> aquarius: sorry, I'm giving up. AFAICS there's no way to do it.
[14:10] <aquarius> greyback, np, and thank you!
[14:11]  * greyback is a big fan of OSX's .bundle files
[14:11] <greyback> used for applications, every app just carries around everything it needs
[14:11] <aquarius> yep
[14:13] <aquarius> mhall119, the reason I don' tthink setting XDG_DATA_DIRS works when running my app is that my app doesn't look up the desktop file. unity does, and unity didn't have the envar set with the extra folder in it when *it* was run.
[14:14] <mhall119> ah, true
[14:16] <mhall119> qmlscene --help doesn't even mention anything about desktop hints
[14:16] <aquarius> mhall119, I know, that's why I asked hether I was getting the syntax right ;)
[14:17] <aquarius> since if we are correct, and the .desktop file needs to be in one of the magic folders, then I don't think I understand waht --desktop_file_hint even *does*.
[14:17] <mhall119> qmlscene has no manpage either
[14:17] <mhall119> aquarius: file a bug for bzoltan
[14:18] <aquarius> mhall119, hence how I opened this conversation: <aquarius> isn't there a desktop-file parameter I can pass to qmlscene?
 I thought there was, but I can't find any documentation about it :(
[14:18] <aquarius> :-)
[14:18] <aquarius> not sure what the bug should say.
[14:18] <Mirv> popey: JP might be interested in having a feature request bug about that in the Ubuntu plugin
[14:18] <aquarius> I don't want a bug saying "document --desktop_file_hint"
[14:18] <mhall119> "qmlscene is buggy, undocumented and useless, do better"
[14:19] <aquarius> I want abug saying "make it possible to display an icon". But that's a huge cmplex bug.
[14:19] <aquarius> mhall119, that bug would be cathartic but unproductive ;)
[14:19] <Mirv> popey: under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qtcreator-plugins
[14:19] <mhall119> Mirv: it's not a plugin feature though, it's qmlscene itself
[14:20] <mhall119> either qmlscene needs to be improved, or it needs to be replaced with something that plays nicely with Unity
[14:20] <Mirv> mhall119: deploying an app uses a script from the plugin, and the script could create a .desktop file as well
[14:20] <mhall119> Mirv: as far as we've been able to determine, .desktop files are not used
[14:21] <Mirv> the usage of qmlscene is a good question, we might even want to have something small that suits better our purposes
[14:21] <aquarius> ya, but I should not have to "deploy" an app in order to display an icon for it, in the same way that I am allowed to type "qmlscene something.qml" without having to copy something.qml to /usr/bin first.
[14:21] <Mirv> mhall119: ok, I don't know the context, just read popey's comment
[14:21] <mhall119> Mirv: aquarius and I have been trying to get a .desktop file's icon and name to be used by the Unity Lancher/Switcher, etc
[14:21] <mhall119> but nothing we do works
[14:22] <mhall119> and "qmlscene --help" doesn't even mention a flag for giving it a desktop file hint
[14:22] <mhall119> and "man qmlscene" doesn't work because it has no manpage
[14:22] <Mirv> right..
[14:23] <mhall119> all in all, qmlscene just doesn't feel like it's meant to be an app launcher
[14:23] <Mirv> essentially it is a developer tool, not an app launcher
[14:23] <mhall119> right, then everything about it makes sense
[14:23] <mhall119> what doesn't make sense is why we're using it to run QML apps
[14:23] <aquarius> and the bug then is "we don't have an app launcher" :)
[14:24] <Mirv> aquarius: +1
[14:24] <mhall119> +1 from me
[14:24] <Mirv> we're using it AFAIK because it was available :)
[14:25] <mhall119> ok, but we should probably be thinking about a longer-term solution now that we're getting apps written that people want to use
[14:27] <dholbach> matge, hey Matthias - I'm not sure if you saw my message on Google+, but the lightning talks moved to 19 UTC - I hope that works for you too
[14:27] <matge> dholbach: yes, saw it. No problem. How does the setup work?
[14:28] <dholbach> matge, somebody will invite you to a google hangout
[14:28] <dholbach> and you can share your screen there for example and talk about your app
[14:29] <Mirv> mhall119: filing a wishlist bug for an app launcher could be a good first step, although I'm not share under which project
[14:29] <matge> Will I get the invitation by mail? Or do I have to have plus.google.com open? I never used hangouts before
[14:30] <mhall119> Mirv: how about ubuntu-ui-toolkit to start with?
[14:30] <Mirv> mhall119: sounds good to me
[14:30] <mhall119> aquarius: ^^
[14:32] <dholbach> matge, shall we do a test run just now?
[14:33] <matge> dholbach: that would be nice
[14:36] <matge> dholbach: I'm sorry, seems like empathy does not handle irc to good. I cannot find your messages
[14:36] <matge> Let me start smuxi
[14:39] <aquarius> mhall119, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1155634 filed
[14:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1155634 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit "App launcher that isn't qmlscene" [Undecided,New]
[14:51] <mhall119> aquarius: thanks
[15:01] <t1mp> hello
[15:01] <waspinator> is something happening today?
[15:01] <netcurli> I can see you on youtube :D
[15:01] <dholbach> all right
[15:01] <dholbach> ubuntuonair.com should be updated now
[15:02] <dholbach> some of you might have to reload the page
[15:02] <netcurli> :)
[15:03] <sofixa> lol
[15:03] <Guest4078> so when is ubuntu for arm devices going to come out? any ideas?
[15:03] <sofixa> why the hell does qwebirc show the IP of every single person who logs in?
[15:04] <sofixa> Guest4078 i think it's 2014
[15:04] <Guest4078> i seen that they had it in testing so far.
[15:04] <sofixa> yes, but the official release was left for 2014, if i am not mistaken
[15:04] <dholbach> please prefix your questions with QUESTION:
[15:05] <gladen> A fellow Dutch guy! :D
[15:05] <dholbach> you can see the video on http://ubuntuonair.com/
[15:05] <sofixa> at least the first phone is expected to be released in the first third of 2014
[15:06] <kvarley> QUESTION: How relevant is the API to web apps in comparison to QML apps? Do you need the SDK to make a web app on Ubuntu?
[15:06] <Guest4078> any betas for it? and will it be like an all in one kind of thing. like various devices for one release with their drivers, etc.?
[15:07] <sofixa> Guest4078 ask with the prefix question, then one of the devs would answer
[15:07] <dholbach> QUESTION: Can you talk a bit about how Ubuntu apps can be integrated with the launcher and the indicators and all the Ubuntu-y bits?
[15:07] <sofixa> like that QUESTION: do you like penguins
[15:08] <kvarley> Ok, thanks Zoltan
[15:08] <OdysseyWestra> QUESTION: Will there eventually be a tool to run Android apps on the MobileOS?
[15:09] <Guest4078> QUESTION: Are there any betas for Ubuntu for ARM? and will it be like an all in one kind of thing. like various devices for one release with their drivers, etc.?
[15:09] <patrick> will ubuntu touch support ms exchange?
[15:09] <greyback> Guest4078: what kind of devices do you mean? Panda board, or phone/tablet?
[15:10] <gladen> QUESTION: I don't know if it has been explained before, but do you need Ubuntu to make Ubuntu apps, or can you also use Windows or Mac for development?
[15:10] <Aincrad> Why exactly QML?
[15:10] <Guest51673> will ubuntu touch support ms exchange?
[15:10] <Guest4078> gladen, i mean like for phones. i guess they are calling it ubuntu touch.
[15:11] <netcurli> please prefix your questions with "QUESTION"
[15:11] <bhavesh> QUESTION: So we will need to develop millions of applications for Ubuntu phone like the ones on Google Play store for Ubuntu phone to become successful?
[15:12] <dell> Question: How to implement frontend for websites, that require to save session, or say cookie. WebView is limited in the sense you have to fetch whole page. If there is something that helps to store session and operate in similar sense to XmlHttpRequest?
[15:12] <greyback> Guest4078: you can find list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[15:12] <dholbach> thanks greyback
[15:12] <greyback> yw
[15:12] <Patrick4Ubuntu> will ubuntu touch support ms exchange?
[15:12] <shivdhwaj> why 12.04 lts crashes?
[15:12] <waspinator> QUESTION, when is the desktop SDK going to be released?
[15:13] <greyback> shivdhwaj: are you referring to the SDK on LTS?
[15:13] <OdysseyWestra> QUESTION: Will the Ubuntu Software Center be ported to Qt/QML?
[15:13] <Patrick4Ubuntu> will MS exchange emails, calendar and contacts be supported on Ubuntu touch?
[15:14] <mirtis123> mac os sucks dont use it
[15:14] <gladen> Alright, thanks for answering. :)
[15:14] <greyback> Aincrad: we decided long ago to use Qt and QML for our developer story. We think it's the best way to make beautiful apps, which is easy for developers to grasp
[15:14] <greyback> Patrick4Ubuntu: patience, it'll be answered :)
[15:14] <aquarius> mhall119, are you planning to put lniks to the videos on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSDKDays/ ?
[15:15] <Patrick4Ubuntu> sorry mate.. didnt know if it would be read... thanks
[15:15] <gladen> Ok, thanks!
[15:15] <greyback> Patrick4Ubuntu: if you preface your question with "QUESTION" then it will be easily seen
[15:15] <chris____> minimum requirements? LG Optimus ONE?
[15:15] <gladen> mirtis123: Let's not start an OS flame wars here, ok? ;)
[15:15] <greyback> bzoltan: please answer Patrick4Ubuntu !
[15:15] <aquarius> mhall119, I got asked by someone who wants to watch me this evening but isn't sure if they'll be available at ~7.15 if they could watch a recording afterwards
[15:16] <mirtis123> how about windows file loading on ubuntu 12.10 without using wine
[15:16] <mirtis123> ?
[15:16] <greyback> mirtis123: this session is Ubuntu SDK related. That isn't relevant for this discussion, you can try #ubuntu-desktop
[15:16] <dholbach> QUESTION: Are there bits which you feel are hard to learn for new app authors? Or maybe a bit harder to wrap your head around?
[15:16] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: will there be a phone, tablet, and tv emulator for qt creator?
[15:17] <dell> Question: How to implement Http session and use cookies in qml. If could not be done in XmlHttpRequest?
[15:17] <greyback> EFL is much harder to code in too. Pure C + a QML-y language
[15:17] <Patrick4Ubuntu> "QUESTION" will MS exchange emails, calendar and contacts be supported on Ubuntu touch?
[15:18] <mirtis123> im using now ubuntu 12.10 and ask for advice for witch app i will choose
[15:18] <bzoltan> greyback: true, EFL is not easy
[15:18] <Guest4078> QUESTION: Is there a way to get rid of these "guest has quit" and "guest has joined" messages?
[15:18] <IReboot> QUESTION: I know the notification APIs are still in design but when is it expected to be included in the SDK? It seems to be an important part of a number of apps especially indicators.
[15:18] <greyback> chris____: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting and related documentation. there are minimum specs somewhere, but I can't find it
[15:18] <dholbach> Guest4078,  /ignore #ubuntu-classroom CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS
[15:19] <greyback> Guest4078: use a better IRC client :)
[15:19] <dholbach> err, sorry
[15:19] <dholbach> Guest4078,  /ignore #ubuntu-app-devel CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS
[15:20] <jake_> how does evo-data-server compare against this ?
[15:20] <Guest4078> It shows unknown command.
[15:20] <dholbach> QUESTION: is the qt5-edgers ppa still necessary?
[15:21] <dholbach> QUESTION: Can all the regular QML plugins be used for Ubuntu apps?
[15:21] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: I know that there is work with the Plasma Active team to design a more unified SDK. My question is how much has the team spent looking at the iOS and Android SDK and SDK tools?
[15:22] <Patrick4Ubuntu> QUESTION: will MS exchange emails, calendar and contacts be supported on Ubuntu touch? will there also be more support for exchange on Ubuntu OS?
[15:22] <greyback> dell: good question, I can't answer that. It seems similar to https://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/710
[15:22] <OdysseyWestra> QUESTION: How easy will the SDK take advantage of Muilti-Core processing on both the X86 and ARM platforms?
[15:24] <htcexplorer> hi guys
[15:24] <dell> greyback:  Yes
[15:25] <dholbach> bzoltan, there was noise coming from your end - it's gone now :)
[15:25] <jo_> hello
[15:25] <htcexplorer> can i use ubuntu on my htc explorer?
[15:25] <htcexplorer> ^_^
[15:25] <greyback> CheeseBurg: it's my task from vUDS to release the documentation we write to analyze all SDKs. When it's done you'll see our process, and how much we try to share APIs
[15:26] <CheeseBurg> greyback: ok
[15:26] <dholbach> QUESTION: When you write an app, is it easy to get it up on Launchpad, like in a PPA or to integrate translations from Launchpad?
[15:26] <dell> greyback: If we can save sessions and cookies, many web authentication could be just as regular login, but access the api
[15:26] <greyback> htcexplorer: I don't see it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices - but ask on ubuntu-phablet mailing list for more info
[15:27] <greyback> dell: agreed. I'm surprised it doesn't just work
[15:27] <htcexplorer> thank you greyback
[15:27] <htcexplorer> goodbye all
[15:27] <Patrick4Ubuntu> QUESTION: are the rumours true regarding MS Office having an Ubuntu release?
[15:28] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: how will the SDK support application transforming so that my desktop app can change into a phone UI, TV UI, tablet UI, etc?
[15:28] <dell> greyback: In case of reddit there is something like OAuth, but many websites need such thing.
[15:28] <dholbach> awesome!
[15:28] <greyback> dell: certainly yes.
[15:29] <waspinator> QUESTION, how long is the approval process between submitting a new app and having it available in the store
[15:29] <bhavesh> was that a train?
[15:30] <greyback> CheeseBurg: it's my task. I want to make it easy to use techniques from Responsive Web Design in QML
[15:30] <CheeseBurg> greyback: so is that in the SDK now or is it in the roadmap?
[15:30] <greyback> CheeseBurg: right now it can be done manually with PropertyChanges and AnchorChanges, but something more elegant is important, IMO
[15:31] <greyback> CheeseBurg: roadmap. Actively working on it right now
[15:32] <CheeseBurg> greyback: ok thanks
[15:32] <Patrick4Ubuntu> guys thanks for your time and answering my questions!
[15:32] <Patrick4Ubuntu> :-)
[15:33] <greyback> Patrick4Ubuntu: you're welcome, thanks for attending!
[15:33] <johncass> android has a "launcher" (home screen) which you can write custom version - how would this work on ubuntu mobile?
[15:35] <Patrick4Ubuntu> exactly... I used Ubuntu for my business but struggled without MS office
[15:35] <aquarius> QUESTION: will there, soon, be a replacement for qmlscene which is an app-runner for pure QML apps but which integrates better with Unity? For example, allows specifying a desktop file or Launcher icon or similar so that an app can be run from a checkout directory; has better documentation (qmlscene doesn't have a man page), etc. Or is the plan to further adapt qmlscene for it to *be* the launcher?
[15:35] <Patrick4Ubuntu> i did have windows run via virtual machine but you know how unstable windows can get.
[15:35] <aquarius> since mhall119 and I spent two hours discussing this this morning :)
[15:36] <greyback> johncass: that's more the ubuntu phone shell. It's fully open source, so yes it can be changed. lp:unity/phablet
[15:36] <dholbach> QUESTION: Where do people get started with the Ubuntu SDK?
[15:36] <OdysseyWestra> QUESTION: Will the SDK take full advantage of UbuntuOne Services, and Single Sign On?
[15:36] <dholbach> QUESTION: What are the most important points on the SDK team's roadmap right now? Can people help out?
[15:36] <dell> Question: Is plugin exported from Qt C++ going to be a first class qml plugin (accepted by default), or will there be a tight review?
[15:37] <johncass> in android a custom home screen would be an app (java, apk) and user installable - I guess what you're saying is build an ubuntu app with QML and it can replace the default home screen 'app'
[15:37] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Can you use other frameworks other than QT/QML like Gtk+ for phone apps?
[15:37] <aquarius> OdysseyWestra, we (that is, the Ubuntu One team) plan to provide an Ubuntu One plugin which gives access to U1 features, including sign on. Exactly how that will work is still being decided, and I'd love to hear your input on that and what you'd want it to do!
[15:37] <aquarius> hi bzoltan :-)
[15:37] <bzoltan> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[15:38] <johncass> unfortunatly my connectivity is terrible here (malawi, africa) so i cant hear your answers..
[15:38] <CheeseBurg> screen has gone black for me
[15:38] <Patrick4Ubuntu> i hear a child crying
[15:38] <OdysseyWestra> Thank aquarius!!
[15:39] <aquarius> good answer, bzoltan :-)
[15:39] <greyback> johncass: at the moment, the launcher is built into to shell - it's not a separate application. To replace it, you'd need to be hacky - replace the relevant bits of QML
[15:40] <odarbelaeze>  "Writing Qt desktop apps in C++" resource is down because the load :P ?
[15:40] <OdysseyWestra> How or will the SDK be flexible enough for it be cross-platform?
[15:40] <bzoltan> odarbelaeze:  No
[15:40] <johncass> greyback: thank you I will take a look...
[15:40] <dholbach> QUESTION: Can people help out? :)
[15:41] <dholbach> which link is done?
[15:41] <dholbach> odarbelaeze, http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/programming-languages/c-and-c-plus-plus/ works fine for me
[15:41] <bzoltan> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team
[15:42] <odarbelaeze> dholbach: Is this loading for you http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/tutorial.html?
[15:42] <dholbach> odarbelaeze, ah no, that doesn't load :)
[15:42] <Patrick4Ubuntu> see ya my ubuntu friends... thanks again for you time... :-)
[15:42] <greyback> QUESTION: how about licensing the SDK to run on other platforms, e.g. iOS or Android. Is it ok?
[15:42] <odarbelaeze> dholbach: that which is about c++ and qt :(
[15:43] <netcurli> odarbelaeze: https://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtdoc/qtexamplesandtutorials.html
[15:43] <HikkiJP6> Question: Where do we find documentation to write qml plugins?
[15:43] <jppiiroi1en> QUESTION: What is the optimal beer and qml ratio?
[15:44] <dholbach> odarbelaeze, try http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/
[15:44] <r-vino14> hello
[15:44] <waspinator> QUESTION, how many full time developers are working on the ubuntu SDK?
[15:45] <dell> Question: Should all qml plugin be reviewed by you guys? Can I export any C++ plugin and use it in my qml app?
[15:45] <odarbelaeze> QUESTION: Is it in the plan to include documentation about Qt/GML in the devhelp content?, i'll be awesome to have some offline documentation
[15:45] <greyback> t1mp: Qt is working on having Qt5.1 working on Android and iOS. It will work soon
[15:45] <bzoltan> jppiiroi1en:  :D
[15:45] <t1mp> greyback: you mean it will 'work' w.r.t license?
[15:46] <OdysseyWestra> QUESTION: Will we be able to develop on the Mobile Devices themselves?
[15:46] <greyback> t1mp: it will work technically, I assume you need to licence it if you want to sell the app.
[15:46] <zsombi> HikkiJP6: https://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtdoc/gettingstartedqml.html#extending-qml-using-qt-c this is the best link to start with
[15:47] <jppiiroi1en> =D
[15:47] <t1mp> jppiiroi1en: do it! :)
[15:48] <greyback> dell: note on the phone & tablet, sandboxing of apps will be in force. So that'll restrict what plugins will be able to do
[15:48] <dholbach> for whoever asked about licenses:
[15:48] <dholbach>  - http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/ppa/
[15:48] <wo0f> What devices are compatible so far?
[15:48] <dell> greyback: thanks
[15:48] <dholbach>  - https://help.launchpad.net/Legal/ProjectLicensing
[15:49] <greyback> dholbach: thanks. I'm curious as QML is cross-platform, so are our designs and components?
[15:49] <dholbach> greyback, hum... I'm not sure I understand the question
[15:49] <greyback> wo0f: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[15:49] <brejoc> QUESTION: How are background tasks handled? Is there a cron like daemon or cron itself?
[15:50] <OdysseyWestra> Thank you!! That was the one thing I was hopping for!! I'll make sure to let the Jupiter Broadcasting Cast know!!
[15:50] <greyback> dholbach: is it legal to use ubuntu SDK to make an app for iOS or Android - in any way?
[15:50] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: How will the SDK work with Ubuntu releases? If a new version of the SDK is released, will the updates work on a previous versions of Ubuntu like the LTS.
[15:51] <dholbach> greyback, I don't know - they'd have to check the guidelines of the Android/iOS app stores, right?
[15:51] <netcurli> but are we able to access cron by using qml
[15:51] <netcurli> ?
[15:51] <netcurli> in a simple way
[15:51] <HikkiJP6> lol
[15:52] <greyback> brejoc: we are working on the application management story right now. Background tasks are part of that. To keep power usage low, background tasks will need to be carefully vetted
[15:52] <brejoc> greyback: okay, thanks!
[15:52] <dholbach> bzoltan, zsombi: you have just a few mins left - do you have any last words? anything you want to get out there? :)
[15:52] <greyback> netcurli: I hope we'll have something better than cron :)
[15:53] <dell> No shell command from qml
[15:53] <t1mp> dell: thanks. So we'll need a c++ plugin to do that.
[15:54] <CheeseBurg> Thanks to everyone, this was informative
[15:54] <wo0f> when is version 1.0 due out?
 IS there options available to install the exisiting apps from android or Ubunut s/w centre
[15:55] <brejoc> greyback: but please don't implement crippled backround tasks like in android! ;)
[15:55] <wo0f> cant wait
[15:56] <greyback> brejoc: well it's a balance between battery life and functionality. Really I want an iOS style background tasks system
[15:56] <vertago1> QUESTION: do you think there will be much cross development between Ubuntu touch and KDE?
[15:56] <Boringgeek> You guys are awesome! Thanks for the session!
[15:56] <Guest72123> enjoy your dinner!
[15:56] <HikkiJP6> bye
[15:56] <t1mp> thanks for the questions. It was a good session.
[15:56] <netcurli> thanks
[15:57] <dell> thanks
[15:57] <brejoc> bye
[15:57] <Guest72123> thanks
[15:57] <zsombi> thanks for all! see you next time!
[15:58] <greyback> vertago1: right now we do our best to closely look at KDE's plasma APIs - but we don't just copy. In future we would love to work with all SDK makers to select a core API set we all provide.
[15:58] <momo_> It is possible to protect qml code?
[15:58] <dholbach> http://ubuntuonair.com/ is updated nwo
[15:58] <dholbach> now
[15:58] <odarbelaeze> did you catch up how to isntall the latest version of the framework in ubuntu 12.04
[15:58] <momo_> I mean pure qml code
[15:59] <dell> There are many games/examples in qt tutorials, is someone porting all of them to ubuntu? They already seem quite enough
[15:59] <greyback> momo_: how you mean protect? As in compile it into the binary in a way it can't be recovered?
[15:59] <greyback> momo_: how you mean protect? As in compile it into the binary in a way it can't be recovered?
[15:59] <t1mp> momo_: have a look at http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtquick/qtquick-deployment.html#managing-resource-files-with-the-qt-resource-system
[16:00] <dholbach> video is updated
[16:00] <greyback> momo_: well my quick answer is: no. It's something the Qt/QML guys are aware of, but no solution as yet.
[16:00] <dell> greyback: Can we copy code from any existing qml examples? E.g Some from kde, some from qt site and deploy it as ubuntu app, or will all of them be rewritten?
[16:01] <DeveloperEd> Is another session about to start?
[16:01] <greyback> dell: we're not going to touch existing Qt/QML examples. But we hope to gather a good collection of our own
[16:02] <dell> greyback: I found some applications like weather, clock and so on. That's why I was asking. We could also simply port same game, qtetriminos etc.
[16:02] <greyback> dell: my poor answer: it depends. If the examples use Plasma-specifics, then changes will probably be needed. If they're simply QML, it'll work fine. We are adding on top of QML.
[16:02] <momo_> thanks for the reply
[16:02] <momo_> greyback: exactly
[16:03] <greyback> dell: true. But we can't distribute their work as our own. So we'll try to make equivalents in time
[16:03] <dell> greyback: No simple qml apps, we could just wrap or upgrade QtQuick 1.0 apps to QtQuick 2.0 and deploy in ubuntu
[16:03] <dholbach> keep your design questions coming, please prefix them with QUESTION:
[16:03] <dell> greyback: Thanks. Yes that's what i was thinking
[16:04] <greyback> dell: thanks for participating with us! I hope it was helpful
[16:04] <edgarcsosa> Is nice...!!!
[16:04] <dell> greyback: Thanks
[16:05] <dholbach>  → http://design.ubuntu.com/apps
[16:06] <dholbach> personally, I like the last chair best
[16:06] <WhiteTiger> Chairs are too mainstream, i'm in bed
[16:07] <dholbach> WhiteTiger, haha
[16:08] <edgarcsosa> Please... write de address again...
[16:08] <dholbach> edgarcsosa, http://design.ubuntu.com/apps
[16:08] <edgarcsosa> Thks... dholbach...
[16:09] <aquarius> QUESTION: the design guidelines are good on high-level stuff (such as "there will be a header") but quite short on detail (a page always has a header? What if you have tabs? Does the tab header collapse with the main header? Are there two headers? How much spacing should be around words in a header? Can a header contain buttons?) Is this because they're still being worked on, or is the plan for the app design
[16:09] <aquarius> guidelines that they will treat generalities and detailed stuff happens elsewhere?
[16:10] <jghg02> hi
[16:10] <aquarius> hey!
[16:11] <dholbach> keep your questions coming! please just prefix them with QUESTION:
[16:11] <aquarius> aha. The SDK does *not* provide this stuff. It might do in the future but it doesn't yet.
[16:11] <greyback> aquarius: it landed today I think
[16:11] <aquarius> and i do not want to wait *until* the SDK provides it :)
[16:12] <greyback> aquarius: well you should :D
[16:12] <aquarius> hence, I'd like to see design guidelines laid ot in detail
[16:12] <aquarius> rather than waiting until the SDK does it for me
[16:12] <aquarius> because I am not helpless ;)
[16:12] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Are these design guides work for other platforms like the desktop and TV
[16:12] <momo_> greyback: but it is quite possible, that there will be a solution in on or two years for qml protection, right?
[16:12] <greyback> aquarius: sure. But obviously for consistency we'd like everyone to use the SDK's header.
[16:13] <edgarcsosa> hehehe
[16:13] <Prajil> hi
[16:13] <Prajil> i have a doubt
[16:13] <Prajil> let me know what  is sdk
[16:13] <greyback> momo_: yes, it's a known issue, and plenty of corporate customers which use Qt want it. I expect a solution eventually, possibly an intermediate byte-code
[16:13] <aquarius> greyback, so would I. But if the thing is "wait for the SDK" then there is no point whatsoever in having SDK days today; we might as well all down tools for six months and wait until you're completely finished, which I am sure you don't want ;-)
[16:13] <greyback> momo_: but I can't give you a "when" - sorry
[16:14] <greyback> aquarius: right. You have a valid point.
[16:14] <aquarius> greyback, hence me saying stuff like "what's the spacing around a header?" so I can make a multi-column app (such as my exfm app, which I'll demo in three hours) without waiting a few months for you guys to make a multi-column tab widget :)
[16:15] <aquarius> greyback, all I want is the answer "6px" or whatever, but I can't seem to get that answer, hence asking for these things to be added to the design guidelines rather than having to reverse-engineer them out of the SDK ;)
[16:15] <aquarius> sorry, dholbach, I'll shut up :)
[16:15] <dholbach> aquarius, don'tworry
[16:15] <dholbach> :)
[16:16] <greyback> aquarius: yep I understand. I can suggest nothing better than reverse engineering. Wireframes would be best
[16:16] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: How much community control is in the designs?
[16:16] <dholbach> come on everyone... bring the questions! :)
[16:17] <matge> I guess the guidelines are quite good already
[16:17] <momo_> greyback: very nice. however, qml with mixed c++ code is also good. I love to write pure qml apps. Thanks
[16:17] <BH02> I have question: I had problems with Ati drivers for 12.10, but now problems with 12.04. Do you expect the problem to be solved?
[16:17] <BH02> no problems
[16:17] <netcurli> QUESTION: what about colors? I have seen comments, that the apps so far look very gray and white. Are there recommendations for other background and font colors?
[16:17] <dholbach> BH02, we're talking about app design guideliens right now - try asking in #ubuntu
[16:17] <aquarius> QUESTION: can you talk about *why* the current design is like it is? What did you reject and why? (For example: why are apps primarily light grey while the Dash is aubergine? Why is the toolbar hidden by default?  It may be usefl to hear why stuff is like it is, in order that developers can try and make decisions which fit in with the overall plan.)
[16:17] <DeveloperEd> Question: Are you folks making an effort to get existing applications to follow your standardized UI?  For example, what things fall under each menu item?
[16:18] <greyback> BH02: that's not relevant question for this session. Please ask on#ubuntu-desktop
[16:19] <edgarcsosa> QUESTION:  What's the typical touch screen gestures uses for the content space...??? I mean, do 'u recommend use some like slider...???
[16:19] <greyback> QUESTION: can you recommend different colour schemes for app visuals. All apps using the same colours is a bit dull.
[16:19] <greyback> netcurli: oh you asked that already, sorry to copy you :)
[16:19] <netcurli> :D
[16:20] <greyback> QUESTION: how relevant are these app guidelines for desktop apps?
[16:21] <greyback> but no negative feedback :D
[16:22] <DeveloperEd> Hey  <greyback>  I would hope that it is VERY consistent between the two platforms...   Which is why I asked if they were asking existing apps are going to be upgraded..
[16:23] <odarbelaeze> DeveloperEd: Ther will be three platforms :P
[16:23] <DeveloperEd> One of the biggest negatives about existing desktop apps is that they all operate slightly differently..
[16:25] <DeveloperEd> I completely agree that you need a different UI for touch versus a traditional desktop, but some elements within a platform should be more standardized and other elements should be consistent across all platforms..
[16:25]  * dholbach hugs aquarius :)
[16:25]  * aquarius laughs
[16:25] <greyback> DeveloperEd: agreed on the consistency. SDK isn't focusing on desktop components yet, so apps made using it aren't great for desktop...yet. Work has to be done, in both design and code
[16:26] <aquarius> Interesting to hear that the current "colour schemes" are just wireframes, although it does suggest that I shouldn't write any apps yet because I have no idea what to make an app look like, right?
[16:26] <aquarius> :(
[16:27] <t1mp> aquarius: default colors are in the SDK. When the designs are updated, the SDK is also updated with the new designs, so then you will automatically get the new designs in your app.
[16:27] <aquarius> t1mp, only if I'm using correct ItemStyling for things, and the styling isn't documented yet.
[16:28] <odarbelaeze> Does the SDK cover both mobile and desktop apps?
[16:28] <t1mp> aquarius: the components in the sdk always have the styling from design, but for your own custom components you are right about that.
[16:28] <DeveloperEd> Read my second comment..
[16:29] <t1mp> for the SDK we are now focussing on mobile.
[16:29] <t1mp> with mobile I mean touch :)
[16:29] <DeveloperEd> I was asking about consistency across the platforms...
[16:29] <t1mp> eventually it will converge, but we know that for example the bottom-edge-swipe for showing a toolbar is not ideal on desktop
[16:29] <bzoltan> odarbelaeze: Right now the focus of the SDK  is the phone and tbalet release ... as the desktop version of the Qt/QML Shell lands we will extend the SDK support for the Desktop too
[16:30] <Prajil> hi hi hi
[16:30] <DeveloperEd> Thank you....
[16:30] <aquarius> t1mp, ahem. What colour should a button be? It strikes me that, for example, a button which does a thing should be a different colour from a button which *cancels* doing a thing. That will, I suspect, result in a Button { ItemStyle.class = "cancel" } sort of thing... but the styles don't get defined until the design guidelines are released.
[16:30] <odarbelaeze> bzoltan: Thank you, that are good news :)
[16:31] <aquarius> t1mp, at the moment all I can do is use a Button, if you see waht I mean :)
[16:31] <greyback> QUESTION: any design considerations yet for people with impaired vision, and how about blind people?
[16:32] <edgarcsosa> Ok... thks...
[16:33] <t1mp> aquarius: actually Button has a color property.
[16:33] <t1mp> aquarius: I think most of the time buttons will have a "default" color, and only in a few cases (such as call/end call) you will use that property.
[16:34] <aquarius> t1mp, indeed it does... but I don't know which colours I'm allowed to use! that's what I mean :)
[16:34] <CheeseBurg> One thing Apple is good at is making both iOS and OSX very visual impared friendly
[16:34] <CheeseBurg> I wish Ubuntu did more work in this area
[16:34] <t1mp> aquarius: that's correct. Sorry not much I can say about that, that is something for visual design to include in the guidelines
[16:35] <t1mp> aquarius: although we could include a set of default/recommended colors in the SDK
[16:35] <aquarius> t1mp, which is exactly and precisely why I asked the question. ;)
[16:35] <t1mp> ok :)
[16:35] <dholbach> more questions?
[16:35] <dholbach> anything you'd like to see discussed?
[16:35] <jdorleans> QUESTION: How easy it will be to change apps themes? Is there any standard ways? Where can I find it?
[16:35] <greyback> QUESTION: I noticed iOS went into a bit of a realistic UI phase, where apps had stitched leather, real paper texture, shiny metal. Is that considered passé nowadays_
[16:36] <greyback> ?
[16:36] <netcurli> QUESTION: (maybe this is not the right place, but as it has also to do with the UI) Will the UI components like the header or the themes also be available for HTML5 apps?
[16:36] <t1mp> theming documentation is here: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/theming-components.html
[16:36] <t1mp> jdorleans: ^
[16:36] <greyback> jdorleans: it'll be part of the sdk themes eventially
[16:36] <t1mp> jdorleans: it is currently being simplified by zsombi
[16:37] <jdorleans> uhm... thx
[16:37] <DeveloperEd> Microsoft BOB....
[16:37] <aquarius> mhall119, question for you there :0
[16:37] <greyback> Well I asked as I wanted  to know how does it fit into your design ideas?
[16:37] <mhall119> aquarius: which one?
[16:38] <mhall119> netcurli: stick around for the next session, I'll be talking about HTML5 styles
[16:38] <greyback> QUESTION: current Tabs UI is quite wasteful of the screen width IMO. Do you agree?
[16:38] <t1mp> greyback: no I don't agree ;)
[16:39] <netcurli> mhall119: ok
[16:39] <mhall119> greyback: width?
[16:39] <t1mp> greyback: you mean the current Tabs in our toolkit, or the standard tabs in desktop apps?
[16:39] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Apps make with the SDK are supposed to change depending on the form factor. Are design team creating designs so that these transformations are nice and unified?
[16:39] <greyback> mhall119: as in, there's lots of whitespace to the right of the currently open tab, once the other tabs fade out.
[16:39] <greyback> t1mp: current Tabs in the SDK
[16:39] <mhall119> greyback: ah, ok
[16:40] <t1mp> greyback: I like it. It makes the design cleaner. Also, the header with the titles of the different tabs will disappear when you scroll down.
[16:40] <greyback> dholbach: on a tablet
[16:42] <greyback> On a tablet. Once you select a tab, when the other ones fade out, there's lots of space left unused
[16:43] <greyback> No worries if you can't. Just a thought ;)
[16:43] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Are the design team also working Unity Next? If so, what are some of the design processes?
[16:44] <jdorleans> QUESTION: How usability tests are made? Are they open for any user to try and give a feedback?
[16:45] <t1mp> dholbach, greyback you mean this? http://www.stack.nl/~timp/tabswidth.png
[16:45] <greyback> Magic, thank you!
[16:46] <t1mp> dholbach: it is on a desktop, but on a tablet in landscape you have similar proportions
[16:46] <t1mp> apologies for my bad drawing skills on a laptop touchpad :)
[16:46] <dholbach> t1mp, well done :)
[16:49] <dholbach> any more questions?
[16:50] <CheeseBurg> For the Unity Next question, I wondering what are some of the thought processes on design functionality such as messaging, application searching, updated dash functionality. I am curious especially since Unity Next supports the convergience idea.
[16:52] <IReboot> QUESTION: From your experiences is the any "DO NOT DO" advise you can give?
[16:52] <CheeseBurg> QUESTION: Do you look at the HIGs (Human Interaction Guidelines) of other companies and projects like Apple, Android, Gnome, or Elementary OS?
[16:52] <IReboot> s/the/there/
[16:53] <IReboot> both
[16:53] <greyback> QUESTION: any chance of getting Design Review sessions going, like were done at UDS in the past?
[16:53] <aquarius> no, in general! give advice like "don't run with scissors" ;-)
[16:54] <t1mp> IReboot: try to use as much components from the SDK as possible instead of custom components, because those components will be updated with new designs and you won't need to do anything for that :)
[16:55] <IReboot> t1mp: thanks
[16:55] <t1mp> IReboot: and please report bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit if something is missing.
[16:56] <jdorleans> QUESTION: How do you create and test animations for ubuntu touch ?
[16:56] <vthompson> QUESTION: Are there any design considerations for flipping the view of the app when the screen is rotated?
[16:57] <greyback> jdorleans: we do lots or prototyping with QML. We have prototypers who work closely with designers to test animations
[16:57] <t1mp> jdorleans: QML supports animations, so use that. We do not have additional support for animations in our SDK, but the developer guidelines include advise on animation duration/speed etc
[16:58] <jdorleans> so the animations are made directly with qml code
[16:58] <greyback> jdorleans: yes
[16:58] <t1mp> QML is great for that :)
[16:59] <jdorleans> uhm... I touch it could be done using others tools before coding. Well, i'll give a try
[16:59] <jdorleans> thought*
[17:00] <CheeseBurg> Thank you
[17:00] <jdorleans> thx
[17:00] <dholbach> thanks everyone!
[17:00] <greyback> jdorleans: QML is really great for throwing together quick prototypes to test interactions and animations. I'd say better than Flash, because we can easily test it on devices
[17:00] <greyback> Thanks guys, sorry for the awkward questions!
[17:01] <jdorleans> yeah, that's cool with we can "jump one step" coding it directly
[17:01] <jdorleans> if*
[17:01] <dholbach> and http://ubuntuonair.com/ is updated
[17:01] <dholbach> mhall119 should be live in a bit!
[17:01] <greyback> jdorleans: exactly. And with a bit of discipline, prototype code becomes production code very quickly
[17:02] <mhall119> be sure to refresh the page
[17:02] <netcurli> I can see you
[17:02] <dholbach> mhall119, YES
[17:02] <dholbach> mhall119, GO GO GO! :)
[17:02] <KevWright> mhall119, yes
[17:03] <mhall119> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1200
[17:04] <terencemd> test
[17:05] <mhall119> https://launchpad.net/u1db-qt
[17:06] <KevWright> mhall119, it can use other components...not only listviews
[17:06] <jdorleans> Does anyone know if ubuntu teams are using any Agile method such as Scrum or XP to develop?
[17:08] <t1mp> QUESTION: Will u1db be integrated in the UI toolkit, or will it remain a separate project?
[17:09] <t1mp> ok, great
[17:10] <mhall119> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-html5-theme
[17:10] <mhall119> http://150.162.216.100/ubuntu-phone-commons-html/default.html
[17:13] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/108243663090085262773/posts/CsJsMsvQKbv
[17:15] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109919666334513536939/posts/U4Ub2BAqbuV
[17:17] <vthompson> QUESTION: Will this responsive plugin be contributed back to Qt5
[17:19] <vthompson> thanks!
[17:24] <jdorleans> QUESTION: What are the dificultes and the next steps for html5?
[17:27] <WhiteTiger> .Thanks for talking to us? :)
[17:27] <CheeseBurg> I'm here
[17:28] <aquarius> thanks mhall119! sorry I missed the first part of this talk
[17:28] <kenvandine> mhall119, you should sleep sometime :)
[17:28] <CheeseBurg> what is this talk about?
[17:28] <dholbach> QUESTION: what was the feedback from skunkworks participants?
[17:29] <mhall119> dholbach: 30 seconds too late
[17:29] <dholbach> haha
[17:29] <netcurli> :D
[17:29] <dholbach> < fail music here >
[17:29] <dholbach> no cookie for me
[17:29] <aquarius> does anyone know if there's a QML syntax highlighting thing for Sublime Text 2?
[17:29] <mhall119> :)
[17:30] <aquarius> isn't one for gedit either, at least not built in :(
[17:30] <netcurli> aquarius: I have qml highlighting in sublime text 2, let me check where I got that from
[17:30] <aquarius> netcurli, do you, by the lord Harry! gimme gimme gimme. I couldn't find it anywhere :)
[17:30] <greyback> netcurli: me three!
[17:30] <greyback> closest I get is with JS
[17:30] <aquarius> I s'pooooooooooooooose I should be using qtcreator, but life's too short. ;0
[17:30]  * kenvandine hugs qtcreator
[17:31] <kenvandine> first editor i've used that doesn't suck, besides vim
[17:31] <greyback> for a quick read of a source file, or a quick test, I prefer subl
[17:31] <aquarius> also, subl rocks.
[17:31] <mhall119> man, I was about to pull a Marco Rubio and leave for a glass of water in the middle of that
[17:32] <vthompson> ha
[17:32] <KevWright> mhall119, great job
[17:33] <mhall119> thanks KevWright
[17:33] <vthompson> Maybe this will support QML syntax highlighting in Sublime Text? https://github.com/DamnWidget/SublimePySide
[17:33] <netcurli> https://github.com/DamnWidget/SublimePySide
[17:34] <netcurli> thats what I have installed
[17:37] <phillyds93> when does next session start?
[17:37] <kenvandine> phillyds93, in 20 minutes
[17:37] <aquarius> netcurli, that works? for pure qml?
[17:37] <phillyds93> when does the next session start?
[17:38] <phillyds93> okey thanks
[17:57] <mhall119> phillyds93: it'll be starting in a few minutes
[17:57] <Prajil> hi
[17:59] <netcurli> aquarius: yes, this plugin has syntax highlighting for pure qml
[18:00] <slade> hello all
[18:01] <slade> can anyone tell me the exact requirements for ununtu phone OS ?
[18:02] <mhall119> slade: there aren't exact requirements yet
[18:02] <slade> well xperias willsupport ?
[18:02] <mhall119> slade: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices for supported devices
[18:02] <slade> Any chances of dual boot with android ?
[18:02] <mhall119> slade: ask in #ubuntu-touch
[18:03] <mhall119> if anybody has any questions about Gwibber or Friends, please prefix them with QUESTION:
[18:03] <mhall119> you can watch the live video at http://ubuntuonair.com/
[18:03] <robru> http://ubuntuone.com/2W6HSyoN9tWUcAZL0k7Z1f <-- flowchart
[18:04] <slade> thans
[18:04] <aquarius> nice flowchart
[18:05] <aquarius> QUESTION: is friends using the twitter streaming API?
[18:05] <mhall119> reusable QML components \o/
[18:07] <mhall119> QUESTION: Does friends try and provide all the different aspects of a service (events, groups, etc) or just things they all have in common (status updates, replies, mentions)?
[18:09]  * aquarius uses echofon on iphone, which uses the streaming api ;-) but I understand your point, kenvandine
[18:10] <kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617194/
[18:10] <jdorleans> hi mic is breaking... : /
[18:11] <aquarius> can hear you, but you're choppy, and your voice is lower than normal :)
[18:11] <mhall119> QUESTION: Is QML Friends going to be included as part of the Ubuntu SDK?
[18:11] <aquarius> QUESTION: how does friends.sendAsync() know which service to send to? or does it always send to all services?
[18:12] <matge> QUESTION: how does one write a service provider, like the facebook/twitter providers?
[18:13] <aquarius> QUESTION: is sendSync just synchronous in the sense that it returns a result rather than a callback? Or is it totally synchronous, i.e., it will hang your app's UI until it returns?
[18:16] <matge> QUESTION: Ubuntu online accounts thems to be based on gtk, not QT. How is that available on the phablet? Or is that gtk functionality replaced by friends?
[18:17] <bobweaver> I thought that one can use gtk in qt
[18:17] <bobweaver> could be wrong ^^
[18:17] <mardy> matge: about adding a provider to Online Accounts: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/online-accounts/ and http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/online-accounts/for-service-developers
[18:17] <mhall119> bobweaver: I don't think so, you can use gtk theming on Qt widgets, but not gtk widgets themselves that I know of
[18:18] <matge> mardy: I know that page, but it says that you have to implement a gtk widget, which won't work on the phone, right?
[18:18] <bobweaver> mhall119,  but what about unity 2d the whole pannel was gtk I though or alot of gtk ?
[18:18] <mardy> matge: yes, it will be different, QML based -- but it's not implemented yet (nor designed)
[18:18] <mhall119> bobweaver: the panel ran in it's own process I think
[18:18] <mhall119> separate from the dash process
[18:18] <bobweaver> ahh thanks mhall119
[18:18] <matge> mardy: then I'll wait for that :-)
[18:19] <mardy> matge: for the time being one can create accounts with the account-console script (from the account-plugin-tools package)
[18:19] <aquarius> QUESTION: will it land in 13.04? Soon? <throws impatient temper tantrum>
[18:19] <matge> mardy: that helps, thanks
[18:20] <mhall119> QUESTION: does Friends provide things like URL shortening automagically?
[18:23] <aquarius> yaaaaay!
[18:23] <mhall119> QUESTION: Will this be in the Ubuntu Touch images soon?
[18:24] <mhall119> \o/
[18:24] <mhall119> QUESTION: the Gwibber client app too?
[18:25] <mhall119> convergence!
[18:25] <mhall119> converge!
[18:26] <bobweaver> QUESTIONS: you are talking about making qhc and snipits too ? for the elemnents in qml ?
[18:27] <bobweaver> stream droped :(
[18:27] <aquarius> er! stream drop.
[18:27] <kenvandine> stream drop?
[18:27] <aquarius> it just says "Hangouts: we'll be right back"
[18:27] <aquarius> ya
[18:27] <aquarius> something going on
[18:27] <aquarius> aha!
[18:27] <aquarius> you return!
[18:27] <jdorleans> back
[18:27] <bobweaver> its bacj
[18:27] <vthompson> Stream is back!
[18:27] <aquarius> hey dudes, it's back
[18:28] <matge> provider plugin
[18:28] <matge> was the point
[18:29] <mhall119> yay mardy!
[18:30] <aquarius> woo mardy!
[18:30] <aquarius> \m/
[18:30]  * mardy blushes
[18:31] <aquarius> lulz. things it is not: mir. :)
[18:31] <mhall119> yet
[18:31] <aquarius> when it *is* it will be cool, obv. :)
[18:31] <aquarius> QUESTION: show us it!
[18:31] <aquarius> oh. good one mhall119 :)
[18:31] <Shiama> hello
[18:31] <aquarius> hi Shiama
[18:32] <Shiama> what are you doing?
[18:32] <matge> actually it never works with qmlscene
[18:33] <vthompson> QUESTION: The Facebook core app will use qml-friends right? What's the point of the app if Gwibber is on the touch images?
[18:34] <aquarius> QUESTION: if I block a user, are that user's posts automatically removed from my streams, or do I have to manually refresh stuff? :)
[18:34] <aquarius> QUESTION: are you sure that "time line" is two words? ;-)
[18:35] <aquarius> QUESTION: does QML gwibber have multi-column if you make the window wider? If so, how did you do it?
[18:37] <mardy> I need to leave, should there be questions about Online Accounts, please ask them in #ubuntu-devel, I'll read them tomorrow
[18:39] <vthompson> Great answers guys
[18:40] <kenvandine> aquarius, it think it should be 1 word
[18:40]  * aquarius grins
[18:40] <aquarius> so do I :)
[18:40] <kenvandine> i just haven't bothered to fix it
[18:41] <vthompson> QUESTION: Off topic a bit, but do you plan on supporting reddit in friends?
[18:42] <bzoltan>  aquarius:  you better ask/wait for greyback's results with layout factoring
[18:42] <mhall119> vthompson: there are stand-alone reddit apps being written though
[18:42] <joe____> https://github.com/brambram/UbuntuPhoneRedditApp
[18:42] <aquarius> ahem. Not a lot of difference between reddit and G+, in my opinion.
[18:43] <aquarius> bzoltan, yeah, but I'm finding out how people are doing this before the SDK comes along and saves us all :)
[18:43] <vthompson> I'm working with brambram on a launchpad project https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-reddit-app
[18:44]  * aquarius laughs
[18:44] <aquarius> yeah, ignore :)
[18:44] <mhall119> vthompson: me too :) we should talk
[18:45] <vthompson> I don't think they do OpenID but I'm not certain
[18:45] <mhall119> vthompson: OAuth?
[18:45] <joe____> vthompson: did it move to launchpad from github?
[18:46] <bobweaver> QUESTIONS: you are talking about making qhc and snipits too ? for the elemnents in qml ?
[18:47] <bobweaver> like for help pages ^^
[18:47] <bobweaver> it is the help pages for qtcreator
[18:47] <bobweaver> compressed files
[18:48] <kenvandine> bobweaver, i would love help... i've really only ever worked with gtk-doc
[18:48] <bobweaver> I have not made before but I know that there is html to qhc
[18:48] <aquarius> thanks robru and kenvandine!
[18:48] <bobweaver> that was a great session
[18:48] <vthompson> Thanks guys!
[18:48] <kenvandine> thx
[18:49] <robru> thanks!
[18:49]  * aquarius does a dist-upgrade ten minutes before doing a lightning talk. This ma not have been a wise idea :)
[18:49] <kenvandine> https://bugs.launchpad.net/qml-friends/+bug/1152832
[18:49] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1152832 in qml-friends "Make reusable components" [Medium,Triaged]
[18:49] <kenvandine> please comment on that bug with suggestions for components you might find useful
[18:49] <bzoltan> aquarius: Nooooooo, do not do thaaaaaat
[18:50] <bzoltan> mhall119: would you please send me the link to the hangout, when it is open?
[18:51] <matge> mhall119: please send me the link, too
[18:52] <mhall119> I will once it's up
[19:01] <jcastro> ok lightning talks!
[19:01] <jcastro> http://ubuntuonair.com/
[19:02] <robru> jcastro, video is showing your head, not bzoltan 's
[19:02] <jcastro> fixed, thanks!
[19:02] <mhall119> aquarius: matge: can you guys add the Lower Third bar with your names?
[19:02] <robru> bzoltan, it's fixed now
[19:05] <Anderson> Hello Guys !
[19:06] <Anderson> Brazilian ?
[19:06] <bzoltan>  /usr/share/qtcreator/ubuntu/menu.json
[19:14] <olav-st> Is it difficult to integrate QML/JS with C++?
[19:16] <mhall119> aquarius: yup
[19:17] <bzoltan> aquarius: Rock & Roll
[19:17] <jdorleans> hehe
[19:17] <jdorleans> \m/
[19:18] <mhall119> it's too loud, turn it down
[19:18] <matge> olav-st: If you have a specific question, feel free to ask me
[19:18] <bzoltan> aquarius:  gimme toydolls, dude
[19:18] <vthompson_> QUESTION: Do the columns collapse to tabs?
[19:19] <kenvandine> aquarius, i care about code!
[19:19] <vthompson_> NICE!
[19:19] <olav-st> That's awesome
[19:20] <bobweaver> pagewrapper.js crash ?
[19:20] <kenvandine> aquarius, awesome!  I want to see the code for that ;)
[19:20] <bzoltan> aquarius: SHOW the CODE, mate
[19:21] <jdorleans> QUESTION: Is it QML pure code? Any mix?
[19:21] <robru> this is so freaking cool. one codebase to do different form factors.
[19:22] <olav-st> QUESTION: Would it change the layout if you rotated the device?
[19:22] <kenvandine> QML is awesome!
[19:23] <vthompson_> You are a rockstar
[19:23] <marcoceppi> QUESTION: Will there eventually be a standard of what widths are which device?
[19:23] <vthompson_> good question olav-st
[19:26] <robru> QUESTION: where is this code hosted?
[19:26] <UbuPhillup> i have a problem with the sdk, if i creat a new projekt under projekts i dont have the tab 'ubuntu' what should i do ?
[19:27] <aquarius> lp:~sil/+junk/exfm
[19:27] <debb1046> UbuPhillup: http://askubuntu.com/questions/259719/qt-quick-ui-templates-missing-from-qt-creators-new-file-or-project-dialog
[19:28] <mhall119> it might work once Ubuntu Touch supports rotation
[19:28] <UbuPhillup> debb1046: thanks very much
[19:29] <bobweaver> QUESTION: any blue prints yet for app  ?
[19:29] <mhall119> high-dpi displays are handled by grid units already
[19:29] <marcoceppi> aquarius: Thanks, that's kind of what I was digging at. What would constitute a "small" device and what makes a "wide" device
[19:29] <mhall119> marcoceppi: grid units
[19:29] <vthompson_> Looks like the branch is actually lp:~sil/+junk/exfm-ubuntu
[19:30] <bzoltan> UbuPhillup: did you install the SDK following http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[19:30] <marcoceppi> mhall119: interesting I will have to read more about grid units
[19:30] <bzoltan> olav-st:  Yes, once the SDK deliveres the layout factoring feature
[19:31] <mhall119> marcoceppi: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/resolution-independence.html
[19:31] <marcoceppi> mhall119: awesome, thanks!
[19:31] <kenvandine> i am evil :-D
[19:32] <mhall119> the kenvandine from the alternate universe is clean-shaven
[19:32] <kenvandine> hahaha
[19:32] <kenvandine> aquarius, never!
[19:32] <UbuPhillup> bzoltan: debb1046: now it works thanks
[19:33] <mhall119> aquarius: bzoltan: We can run some of those future-features unders skunkworks as well
[19:33] <mhall119> just need the list
[19:33] <kenvandine> buttons!
[19:34] <kenvandine> i don't want to set colors and such on buttons
[19:34] <bzoltan>  mhall119: a sure
[19:35] <kenvandine> sucks much less than before!
[19:35] <kenvandine> it's a breeze in QML!
[19:36] <kenvandine> bzoltan, i want you to make it pretty for me
[19:37] <kenvandine> i really just added more styling for buttons
[19:37] <kenvandine> so easy to remove later
[19:39] <kenvandine> oh, pandora!
[19:39] <vthompson_> It was lp:~sil/+junk/exfm-ubuntu
[19:40] <olav-st> yup
[19:40] <vthompson_> I couldn't branch what you have in your title thing. There's a branch with -ubuntu at the end though
[19:41] <aquarius> vthompson_, ha! thanks :)
[19:43] <vthompson_> This was awesome guys!
[19:43] <IReboot> thanks!
[19:43] <mhall119> thanks everyone!
[19:43] <robru> thansk everybody!
[19:43] <olav-st> thanks guys!
[19:44] <matge> thanks!
[20:15] <Riussi> cheers, bzoltan
[20:22] <nozyczek> hey
[20:23] <Riussi> the plugin is not that hard either, there is a branch on the clock app that shows that
[22:06] <daker> hi anyone have anyidea what's the issue http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617814/ ?
[22:11] <diplo> Evening all, anyone know of any apps that have utilised oauth at all that I can get an idea of the code from ?
[22:26] <Phagus> Hello there. I'm wondering about ways app developers who are distributing software on Ubuntu Software Center are able to secure royalties for their product?
[22:28] <ja-ke> morning from yhe philippine txting capital of the world
[22:35] <ja-ke> morning from yhe philippine txting capital of the world
[22:42] <robru> Phagus, well I don't know the details, but I do know that it's certainly possible to charge money for software in the software center, and developers do get paid.
[22:43] <robru> diplo, I've been working on some oauth code recently, hang on
[22:43] <robru> diplo, wait, are you talking about oauth code in a qml app?
[22:44] <Phagus> robru: Yes, I see that it's 80% commission you get. I'm just wondering about copy-protection. It seems to be up to the developers to make a system of copy protection?
[22:44] <robru> Phagus, that I'm not sure, sorry
[22:44] <Phagus> Thanks robru
[22:45] <Phagus> Anyone else perhaps can help?
[22:45] <robru> diplo, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~super-friends/friends/raring/view/head:/friends/utils/base.py#L444 here's the code I'm using for oauthlib support in lp:friends. it's built on python3-oauthlib, so maybe one of those would help you understand how oauth works.
[22:46] <tgm4883> Phagus, it is up to the developer to implement copy protection
[22:50] <Phagus> Hmm, I'm getting that.
[22:51] <tgm4883> Phagus, I hope so. You've been told it multiple times
[22:51] <Phagus> I'm asking because I actually want to distribute my ebook on Ubuntu Software Center. I don't really want DRM, but I also don't want people to copy it with ease.
[22:51] <ja-ke> integrate   audacious in phone
[22:51] <Phagus> I'm a slow learner :-P
[22:52] <tgm4883> Phagus, Ubuntu Software Center doesn't have any copy protection built in
[22:52] <tgm4883> Phagus, "There is no native DRM framework within Ubuntu so there is no system-wide restrictions. We do not believe that DRM is a successful formula because it punishes law-abiding users and doesn’t stop the minority of pirates. However, we do not limit individual developers from using their own rights management system."
[22:54] <ja-ke> what abouth offline uses
[22:54] <Phagus> Yep, I read that. I'm looking for alternative systems, "own rights management system"
[22:55] <tgm4883> Phagus, people that want to find a way around it, will
[22:55] <Phagus> Of course.
[22:55] <Phagus> I'm not asking for something foolproof :-)
[22:55] <tgm4883> Phagus, so then what is the point?
[22:57] <Phagus> I cannot divulge that information.
[22:57] <tgm4883> oh please
[22:57] <Phagus> No really, I can't.
[22:58] <tgm4883> Phagus, you can't say why you think you need DRM even though you know that it can be defeated?
[22:59] <robru> sounds to me like Phagus has a super-secret employer that is demanding DRM.
[22:59] <tgm4883> robru, even if that was true, he could say "my employer wants it"
[22:59] <Phagus> I'm working with people who are stuck up over DRM. Even if DRM is faulty (which cryptographically, it is), it's the industry standard to want DRM.
[22:59] <Phagus> That's what I'm saying actually :-P
[22:59] <robru> haha
[23:00] <tgm4883> no, you didn't say that until now
[23:00] <robru> well, best of luck Phagus, but I've never used DRM so I can't really help there.
[23:01] <Phagus> Alright. I work for cranky old baby boomers who are techno-phobes and afriad of anything counter-culture and on the Internet.
[23:01] <tgm4883> Phagus, as we've already told you. Ubuntu Software Center doesn't do DRM. So you need to either A) write your own, or B) license some from a company that creates it
[23:01] <tgm4883> personally, I wouldn't purchase an ebook on the ubuntu software center anyway
[23:01] <Phagus> Yep.
[23:01] <tgm4883> further, you could probably point to simcity as the latest issue with DRM
[23:02] <robru> tgm4883, you mean DRMs greatest success story? I don't see anybody pirating simcity at all! ;-)
[23:03] <Phagus> I actually think if you wanted to cut down on piracy, you'd actually infiltrate the piracy communities, but who am I.
[23:03] <tgm4883> Phagus, that has already been done, and it doesn't work
[23:03] <ja-ke> why font  u just write code .....
[23:03] <Phagus> Oh?
[23:03] <ja-ke> why dont  u just write code .....
[23:03] <tgm4883> robru, what about 'simcity 5 offline mode'?
[23:04] <robru> Phagus, yeah, in the 2000's it was really common for the RIAA to pay people to spew corrupt data into torrents, but the problem was that the torrents would just hashcheck the data and redownload anything that was corrupted. so it was a minor bandwidth wastage at best. total waste of time... didn't stop anybody from pirating.
[23:04] <robru> tgm4883, does that really exist? holy crap
[23:05] <tgm4883> robru, also, "the pirate bay simcity 5" as a google search returns 3 million results
[23:05] <Phagus> Interesting
[23:05] <tgm4883> robru, so yea, it seems the DRM is only preventing legit customers from playing
[23:06] <robru> tgm4883, I hadn't looked into it. One of the articles i read about it gave me the impression that *all* the game data is actually stored on the server, so I assumed the game wouldn't run if you hacked out the DRM
[23:06] <tgm4883> Phagus, I've long had the opinion that the amount of money saved from "lost sales" due to having DRM is lost in the cost of creating/licensing the DRM
[23:06] <Phagus> Torrents are peer-to-peer though
[23:06] <tgm4883> robru, yes, EA has been saying that for awhile now. Turns out, they are lying pieces of crap
[23:06] <tgm4883> Phagus, so?
[23:07] <robru> tgm4883, lol, well I stand corrected. DRM is hilariously terrible. gotta run though, enjoy your weekend ;-)
[23:07] <Phagus> Torrents are peer-to-peer, and so the garbage data would be self-corrected.
[23:07] <ja-ke> apps for offline uses
[23:08] <tgm4883> Phagus, ah, you were responding to robru. Yes, that is precisely why it doesn't work (among other things)
[23:09] <Phagus> tgm4883: Yes, m ybad. And cryptographically, DRM is easy to break, since they give you the cipher and the key in one package.
[23:09] <Phagus> But whatever it is, I am needing to look into this.
[23:10] <tgm4883> Phagus, well you have your answers. If you want DRM, you'll need to either A) create it yourself, or B) license it from someone who created it
[23:12] <Phagus> Fair enough.
[23:13] <ja-ke> to have better apps there is no registration
[23:15] <ja-ke> apps is for offline uses
[23:15] <ja-ke> apps is also for offline uses
[23:36] <Phagus> So, DRM aside, when someone purchases an app on the Ubuntu store, are they able to do a quick copy-paste of the product, or how difficult is the copying?
[23:37] <Phagus> I've been told the apps are sent through distro packages linked to your Ubuntu account.