/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/15/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

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dufluRAOF: Why is it still on raring, it's random whether my VT font is the BIOS one or the Ubuntu one?05:25
RAOFduflu: When is it the Ubuntu one?05:25
dufluRAOF: *Randomly* :P05:25
RAOFHave you done something to set it to the Ubuntu one?05:25
dufluRAOF: It's actually meant to be the Ubuntu console font05:25
dufluBut we have a race somewhere so it doesn't apply half the time05:26
dufluThis bug has been around for at least a year05:26
RAOFHuh. That *should* be set by console-setup in the initramfs.05:27
dufluRAOF: Couldn't find it for a while but yeah it is assigned to console-setup... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/43389705:33
ubot2Launchpad bug 433897 in console-setup "Console/VT font is (randomly) not set (sometimes) on some machines. Stuck with the default VGA BIOS font." [High,Confirmed]05:33
RAOFduflu: Incidentally, how did you get the Ubuntu console font set up?05:33
RAOFerror: invalid cast from type ‘mir::geometry::PixelFormat’ to type ‘mir::geometry::PixelFormat’ ☹05:33
dufluRAOF: It is by default out of the box. It's meant to be.05:33
dufluRAOF: Yeah I was going to fix the PixelFormat(s) soonish05:34
dufluRAOF: Try a different machine or two. Some machine consistently have the font set. Some consistently don't. And some vary.05:34
dufluMost people don't notice it as a bug because they only ever see one Ubuntu machine with one font.05:36
pittiGood morning06:29
tkamppeterRAOF, hi07:09
didrockspitti: I'm afraid I will need your bumping magic again :(07:26
pittididrocks: sure07:26
didrocksoh, no libunity here? let me look for it07:26
didrocksah not yet source published in the ppa07:27
RAOFtkamppeter: Hi.07:31
didrockshere we go07:31
didrockspitti: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/experimental-prevalidation/+build/437179907:31
didrocksthis is the only urgent one for now07:31
RAOFtkamppeter: Any luck getting an upstream review of the ghostscript patch?07:31
pittididrocks: fait !07:31
didrockspitti: merci ;)07:31
RAOFtkamppeter: I'm not wild about effectively taking a fork of lcms2 because the fork mysteriously fails to segfault with ghostscript.07:32
didrockspitti: oh, celui-ci aussi, stp: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/experimental-prevalidation/+build/437175607:32
pittifait aussi07:33
didrocksmerci !07:33
tkamppeterRAOF, perhaps I let GS then use its own copy of LCMS2 for this cycle, so that LCMS2 gets time to sort it out upstream. Then you better remove everything from LCMS2 (go back to -0ubuntu1 state) and I package GS with its own LCMS2. WDYT?07:34
RAOFtkamppeter: I don't think there's any particular need to remove the patch I cherry-picked from upstream. Is there something really urgent in GS 9.0.7?07:35
tkamppeterRAOF, GS 9.07 is simply the current release, there is no urgent fix in it. I could perhaps even skip it.07:38
RAOFYeah, that's what I was thinking. If their lcms2 patches get reviewed in time, we can push both through. If not, maybe we're not missing too much?07:38
tkamppeterRAOF, the only problem I see is that if GS can make the patched LCMS2 crash and so perhaps other programs using LCMS2 can make it crash, too.07:39
RAOFtkamppeter: That's reasonable. I *think* those programs would need to explicitly use the new symbol to touch the crashy codepath, though?07:40
tkamppeterRAOF, I am not sure, as I did not look very deeply into the changes.07:40
RAOFHm, no, you're right. Everyone will hit the new codepaths.07:42
RAOFSo I should probably revert that patch.07:42
tkamppeterRAOF, so I will try building GS 9.07 with its own LCMS2 and I recommend you to return to the -0ubuntu1 state.07:43
tkamppeterRAOF, and I let the upstreams negotiate with each other and to take some months to sort it out.07:44
RAOFSounds good.07:48
tkamppeterRAOF, GS 9.07 with onboard lcms2 is on its way ...08:19
tkamppeterRAOF, ... a first quick test shows that it is stable.08:19
jgdxUnity in raring really shines. The dash is appearing instantaneously. Thank you all!08:19
didrocksjgdx: thanks for the feedback :)08:24
didrocks(the upstream guys are more on #ubuntu-unity FYI ;))08:24
jgdxdidrocks: I'll go an repeat myself, happily!08:26
didrocks:)08:26
tkamppeterRAOF, new GS uploaded, thanks for your help.08:32
seb128hey desktopers, happy friday08:39
didrockshey seb128!08:45
seb128hey didrocks08:45
seb128hey chrisccoulson08:46
chrisccoulsonhi seb128, how are you?08:46
seb128chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks, how are you?08:46
seb128still fighting toolchains?08:46
chrisccoulsonseb128, yeah, not too bad thanks08:46
chrisccoulsonoh, i don't think it's a toolchain bug ;)08:46
chrisccoulsonooh, a different colour this morning: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/08:47
seb128chrisccoulson, chromium bug then? is it fixed yet? poke on the shoulder :p08:56
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Laneymorning09:08
seb128Laney, hey, happy friday!09:09
Laneyand to you!09:11
czajkowskiGooooood Morning09:57
seb128czajkowski, mooooorning, happy friday!09:59
czajkowskiit's only happy friday as tmorrow is excellent Saturday :009:59
czajkowski;)09:59
seb128;-)10:00
Laneyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEB74jGanao10:38
m4n1shLaney: I guess the majority of the comments you might get would be about your keyboard11:01
Laneysigh11:01
Laneyyou're probably right - and I can't be bothered so I'm going to delete it11:01
Laneygone11:02
Laneyshame11:02
seb128Laney, what was the video about? ;-)11:03
LaneyI was demonstrating a bug11:03
Laneyalt+left/right caused a tty switch - most odd11:04
m4n1shLaney: sigh. you could have just ignored it11:06
LaneyI showed it to someone else and he said the same thing which made me believe that people would be incapable of seeing the point11:06
m4n1sheven I had a dirty keyboard a year back before I relocated. I just threw away the keyboard and bought a new one. Cleaning keyboard is hard. Atleast real hard for me11:10
seb128Laney, did you opt in for some system compositor beta ppa or something?11:10
Laneyno mir in sight ;-)11:10
seb128k, dunno then :p11:11
Laneyit's gone away now anyway after a restart11:11
chrisccoulsonhi jibel. would you mind running https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-mozillateam_firefox_next-firefox/ again please? (i uploaded a new version yesterday)11:32
jibelchrisccoulson, done. but it should have started automatically, another jenkins weirdness11:33
chrisccoulsonjibel, cool, thanks!11:34
seb128pitti, btw did you see my langpack ping yesterday?11:44
pittiseb128: I did, and I asked dpm some time ago about it; he said he'd investigate11:44
pittiwe don't have LP exports yet11:44
seb128pitti, ok, thanks, I don't keep IRC running at night so don't have the backlog11:44
pittihttps://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+language-packs11:44
seb128pitti, I will check with dpm when he's around11:45
seb128pitti, can you put https://code.launchpad.net/~altair-ibn-la-ahad/ubuntu/precise/update-notifier/bug-887650/+merge/152556 as work in progress or rejected?11:45
pittilequel, WIP ou rej ?11:45
seb128anything which gets it out of the sponsoring queue until it's fixed by the submitter11:46
seb128I never know which one is correct...11:46
pittiok, so WIP then11:46
seb128pitti, danke11:46
pittiWIP -> submitter needs to fix it, but we agree with the change in general11:46
pittirejected -> we don't want it11:46
seb128k11:46
seb128WIP please then ;-)11:46
pittiseb128: fait11:46
seb128pitti, merci11:46
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
didrocksLaney: hum, I don't understand your comment on the FFe bug13:37
didrocksLaney: did you read the bug description?13:38
didrocksI took great care to explain everything13:38
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qenghocoffee |lap >floor13:51
attenterm floor13:58
Laneysorry, tpying with one hand13:59
Laneytook  a chunk out of a finger14:00
Laneydidrocks: was hoping for a list or so14:00
Laneylet me look14:00
seb128Laney, be careful, those finger things can be handy14:01
Laneythe update makes it clearer14:02
Laneyseb128: indeed, its been bleeding for 1 hour now14:02
Laneyholding it up over my head14:02
seb128urg14:02
seb128did you cut it while cooking or something?14:02
Laneywas cutting with scissors and it slipped14:03
desrtLaney: dude... leave your computer and seek medical help14:05
desrtcuts shouldn't bleed for an hour14:05
Laneyyeah it's a decent chunk14:06
Laneyslowing now14:06
desrtfind someone to go with you14:06
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
Laneyah, it's stopped now ;-)14:12
czajkowskiLaney: cold tea, bleeding finger, odd bugs, you're not having a good day are you14:18
Laneyseems pretty standard to me :P14:18
Laneyhmm, I was going to go climbing this evening...14:22
GunnarHjseb128: That was a fast first response. :)14:22
seb128GunnarHj, hehe, non-code-review comments is the easy part ;-)14:22
seb128GunnarHj, I was doing some patch piloting as well this morning14:23
GunnarHjseb128: Ok. I submitted a few short answers.14:23
seb128thanks14:23
GunnarHjseb128: I have thought about the integration between xkb and im. How likely is it that we will adapt that part of the region capplet?14:24
GunnarHjadopt14:25
GunnarHjafter 13.04, I mean.14:25
seb128we should try to get that in if it makes sense14:26
seb128otherwise our diff over upstream is not easy to manage14:26
GunnarHjseb128: I do understand about that giant diff. But there are a few issues. One of them is that ibus is not perfect for all im users - there seems not to be a perfect IMF at all. Therefore the model with im-config, that lets users easily choose their preferred IMF, seems to have its advantages.14:28
GunnarHjseb128: I can think that this would be a suitable topic at next (v)UDS.14:29
GunnarHjseb128: It's the im users who should decide our route in this respect, IMO.14:30
seb128GunnarHj, there was a discussion in this vUDS about input methods (I didn't look at the outcome yet though)14:31
seb128GunnarHj, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ubuntukylin-inputmethod-ibus-or-fcitx14:31
Laneythey went for fcitx14:31
seb128Laney, thanks14:31
LaneyAFAIK, anyway14:32
seb128we should probably build our indicators with backends14:32
GunnarHjseb128: Yeah, I participated in that one, but it didn't cover this topic.14:32
seb128and support both14:32
seb128we have 2 ways14:32
seb128improve/fix ibus to be good enough for everyone14:32
seb128or fcitx14:32
seb128well let's say "pick a framework and do what is needed to make it suitable"14:32
seb128or "let different locales use different frameworks and deal with those from the ui side by having backends"14:33
GunnarHjseb128: Ok, so you preclude that we keep using im-config?14:33
seb128sorry, I don't know enough about the topic14:33
seb128what is im-config doing exactly?14:33
seb128is that to let user select if they want ibus or fcitx or ...?14:34
GunnarHjseb128: It lets you switch between different frameworks, and configure the one you choose by setting some env. variables.14:35
GunnarHjseb128: Yes, you can say that it lets the user easily select ibus, fcitx etc.14:35
pittic'est l'heure de glace!!!14:36
seb128pitti, y a de la glace partout ici tjs ... ;-)14:36
GunnarHjseb128: And that approach is difficult to keep with the new GNOME model.14:36
seb128pitti, bonne glace !14:36
seb128GunnarHj, yeah, as said there are 2 way forward, one is to enforce a framework and make it good enough for everyone, the other one is to keep allowing flexibility14:37
GunnarHjseb128: I can propose a blueprint, if you like.14:37
seb128GunnarHj, we had some, I've the feeling that what we lack is people knowing enough about the topic and needs to lead the discussions to a conclusion14:38
seb128the topic is an hard one as well14:39
GunnarHjseb128: Maybe we should ask somebody who knows the topic better, like happyaron.14:39
seb128it's a vast topic14:39
seb128somebody from China might not have a good understand of what  people in Russia need14:39
seb128understanding14:40
GunnarHjseb128: That's true, unfortunately.14:40
seb128seems even users in different part of China have different opinion about the topic14:40
seb128some dialects are supported correctly by ibus14:40
seb128some others are not14:40
GunnarHjseb128: Which speaks for keeping flexibility for now. ;-)14:41
seb128flexibility has a cost, it means have to support several stacks and integration from the UI which all of those14:41
seb128having*14:41
GunnarHjseb128: True.14:41
seb128it also means you might have different UI/behaviour depending on your locale14:42
GunnarHjseb128: Didn't understand the last one.14:42
seb128and it might be hard to handle installations/activation of the right one for users14:42
seb128well, maybe ibus and fcitx don't have the same capabilities/interaction model14:42
seb128which would reflect in a different interface for e.g the indicator14:43
seb128or the settings panel14:43
seb128so you have to deal with documentation trying to explain the differences14:43
seb128and you need to make sure every locale lands on using the correct framework14:43
GunnarHjseb128: Both ibus and fcitx have decent interfaces, AFAICT, which you can reach via an icon at the top bar.14:44
GunnarHjseb128: But to be honest, I'm not capable of comparing pros and cons here. A group of im users from different countries should be consulted, IMO. A topic at next UDS might give you a better base for decision.14:47
seb128GunnarHj, agreed14:48
desrtpitti: hey.  noticed you uploaded an upgraded systemd to universe14:48
desrtoh.  disregard.14:49
GunnarHjseb128: I'll talk to happyaron, and see if we can propose a suitable blueprint topic.14:49
* desrt was going to tell you to cherry-pick a patch from git but it seems that systemd has a pretty aggressive release schedule14:50
seb128GunnarHj, thanks14:50
GunnarHjseb128: No problem.14:50
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=== Ursinha_ is now known as Ursinha
Sweetsha1kpitti: reading the bashism bikeshed flying by, I noticed you did a prominent one right at http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html ;)15:46
=== Sweetsha1k is now known as Sweetshark
Sweetsharkpitti: IIRC $() isnt POSIXy, only `` is.15:46
ogra_both work though ... there is worse stuff15:47
ogra_and i'm personally ony concerned when it comes to startup scripts etc15:47
ogra_adding seconds to your boot because there are 10something bash scripts running etc15:47
Sweetsharkogra_: I did work at Sun Microsystems and had to keep Solaris happy. Dont tell me that was wasted time! ;)15:48
Laney$() is POSIX15:48
ogra_yeah but even `` will work in POSIX code15:48
ogra_there is other stuff that will make your script crash and burn15:48
ogra_and arrays should be patched outr fo our bash package :P15:49
ogra_*out of15:50
Sweetsharkogra_: but while we are at it, whats a sane way to solve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1141106 without getting non-POSIXy?15:51
ubot2Launchpad bug 1141106 in libreoffice "usr/bin/libreoffice script bad symlink following" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:51
Sweetsharkogra_: neither the stat command, nor the readlink one are POSIX IIRC/15:51
Sweetshark(note: Im not saying that the sed madness is sane)15:52
ogra_why do you care ? that runs in the users session ... where the default shell is bash anyway15:53
Sweetsharkogra_: on all operating systems?15:54
Laneythey're both executables?15:54
Sweetsharkheh, vim syntax highlighting for posix-sh is complaining about $() though15:56
Sweetsharkah, heh. e.g. solaris 8 is not supporting $() thats why.15:59
LaneyIt was added in 2004 IIRC15:59
LaneyI have let g:is_posix = 1 in my .vimrc which I think I added to get around that16:01
seb128kenvandine, hey16:09
seb128kenvandine, is there any reason you never uploaded that fix for signon-ui to exit on idle?16:09
kenvandinei thought i did16:11
seb128kenvandine, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/signon-ui/+changelog ?16:11
kenvandine:/16:12
kenvandinei guess that only went to the PPA16:12
kenvandinei remember waiting for it to be reviewed before uploading to raring16:12
seb128kenvandine, can you get it uploaded? ;-)16:15
kenvandineseb128, sure16:17
kenvandineprobably monday though :)16:17
seb128kenvandine, thanks16:17
seb128no hurry16:17
* seb128 \o/ at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/account-plugins/+bug/104405516:17
ubot2Launchpad bug 1044055 in gnome-control-center-signon "online-accounts does not allow a way to disable a particular application" [Undecided,Triaged]16:17
kenvandineseb128, yeah we want that in too16:22
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seb128kenvandine, it got acked ;-)16:23
kenvandinegreat, i hadn't noticed16:23
kenvandinewoot16:23
seb128kenvandine, mardy was trying to push for the new e-d-s/evo as well, they added uoa support apparently, but that one seems out of scope for the cycle16:23
kenvandineyeah16:23
kenvandinetoo risky16:23
seb128too much work as well16:24
seb128they dropped a lib and changed some soname I think16:24
seb128not to mention that new evo might need new gtk16:24
kenvandinealthough current version is crashy as hell :/16:24
seb128we will get the new one in a month...16:25
kenvandineseb128, after my sdk dev session this afternoon, i am going to file some MIRs and an FFe bug for friends/gwibber :)16:26
seb128cool16:27
pittiseb128: merci, il était bien !16:28
pittiSweetshark: srsly? `` doesn't nest, I thought $() was POSIXy too16:28
desrtpitti: hey.  rumour has it you're patching logind16:31
desrtcan't we add something to the shim instead?16:32
pittidesrt: I'm patching our systemd package in many ways, indeed16:33
pittidesrt: not sure, does your shim actually track sessions and cgroups? If so, we could get rid of the "old sessions cleanup" patch16:33
desrtpitti: if you're patching logind to avoid having it talk to systemd (pid1) because we don't have it, i think we should rather allow it to continue talking to the systemd dbus interface but use our shim implementation16:33
pittidesrt: I haven't looked at the shim yet16:33
desrtthe shim is very dumb right now16:33
pittidesrt: no, I'm not16:33
desrtbut i expect to expand it....16:33
Sweetsharkpitti: so it seems modern POSIX supports $(), older POSIX doesnt. As AST said: "The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from."16:36
pittiSweetshark: for autopkgtest, "works in dash" is POSIXly enough :)16:36
Sweetsharkpitti: I will get back to you with a vengance when we port Ubuntu to Solaris 8!16:37
pitti*pfft*16:38
Sweetsharkpitti: btw ...16:40
* Sweetshark is just adding some 52 Junit test to run as autopkgtest against an LO4 installation16:41
Sweetshark(tests run for some ~7 minutes with -j16)16:42
Sweetsharkso yeah, some coverage there ;)16:42
seb128attente, hey17:09
attenteseb128, hey17:10
seb128attente, how are you?17:10
attentepretty good, you?17:10
seb128I'm good thanks17:10
seb128you said earlier in the week that you were starting looking at the keyboard indicator stuff?17:11
attenteyep17:11
seb128(sorry I didn't get back to you earlier about that)17:11
seb128what are you going for atm ?17:11
seb128attente, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeyboardSettings (design from mpt)?17:11
attentei'm starting based on this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TextEntry17:12
seb128ok, good17:12
attenteheh, links to the same thing17:12
seb128the topic is complex, I tried to wrap my head around it a couple of time but I just don't know enough about input methods17:12
seb128attente, did you pick a "backend"? like do you plan to enforce using ibus?17:13
seb128or do you plan to have it work with either ibus or fcitx?17:13
attenteseb128, i haven't thought that far ahead yet, i'm just trying to get a basic indicator working :)17:13
seb128ok17:15
seb128attente, you might want to abstract the input method framework17:15
seb128attente, it's not impossible that we move to something else than ibus in the future, I'm not sure those decision at set in stone17:15
attenteseb128, ok, i'll keep that in mind17:16
seb128thanks17:16
seb128attente, also you might want to get familiar with what GNOME has been doing, we should probably use a similar logic17:16
seb128attente, in particular we want to get ride of libxklavier and libgnomekbd17:16
seb128so we should use those to change keyboard layouts17:17
seb128shouldn't*17:17
attenteok17:17
seb128attente, good luck with that, let me know if you have any issue/concerns17:17
attenteseb128, will do, thanks!17:18
seb128attente, oh, and lool suggested that we (as "collectively for Ubuntu") should start discussing ibus/fcitx/input methods, I will probably set up a meeting next week and invite people around who package input methods or the people working on ubuntukylin (a chinese edition of Ubuntu), I will invite you as well17:20
attenteseb128, ok17:23
seb128pitti, what do you mean by "systemd-services in universe for now, as the FFE hasn't been approved yet."?17:34
seb128pitti, bug #1153567 got acked? or do you speak about the logind one (at they both in the same binary?)17:35
ubot2Launchpad bug 1153567 in ubuntu-system-service (Ubuntu) "[FFE] Use systemd-services rather than ubuntu-system-service systemdcompatibility code" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115356717:35
pittiseb128: yeah, the logind FFE hasn't been approved yet17:35
pittiseb128: ah, I merged logind into systemd-services because the Debian guys didn't like that over-splitting17:36
seb128pitti, ok, I guess it's fine if we get the logind FFE approved17:36
seb128otherwise we will need to figure what to do17:36
pittiseb128: if you want the dbus services now, we need to split it back out again, or merely disable the upstart job as a quickfix17:36
seb128pitti, systemd-shim is still waiting MIR review from sarnold so no hurry17:37
seb128we can see what happens to logind next week17:37
seb128and decide either way17:37
pittiwhat does that shim do, BTW?17:37
seb128it provides the interfaces the services need17:37
seb128e.g is ntp active17:37
seb128or activate ntp17:37
seb128that's need for timedated/the control panel service17:38
pittiI hope there won't be too much software which checks for the dbus iface and tries to talk to the real systemd17:46
seb128pitti, right, same for me, I mentioned that to desrt when he decided to go this way17:47
ogra_we shuld just have merged CK into upstart :P17:49
ogra_all that pain with half used systemd17:50
pittithat's not the point17:51
pittiCK itself still works, but less and less software uses it17:51
ogra_yeah, and i wasnt really serious :) i could as well said we should just use gentoo as upstream in the future ....17:52
ogra_+have17:52
ogra_i know what we do is the best solution for now17:52
ogra_but i have the feeling that lennart will work towards making what we do impossible in the future17:52
ogra_the deeper the systemd integration will go, the harder it will become17:53
pittibelieve me, it's already quite hard -- I've worked on this for over a week now17:53
ogra_but i'm just stating the obvious17:53
ogra_no doubt on that17:54
* didrocks waves good evening :)17:59
Laneyhappy weekend!18:01
seb128Laney, to you too!18:08
Laneyhoping the rain stays off so I can get out on my new bike ;-)18:08
seb128Laney, we can maybe send you some ice and snow with -5°C if you prefer :p18:09
* Laney runs18:10
ogra_seb128, dare you ! that has to go past germany if you send it from down there18:22
seb128ogra_, real german winter, you can't complain!18:23
ogra_well, yeah, i wouldnt, if it axtually *was* winter ...18:23
ogra_on TV they said its spring ... must be true if its on TV18:24
seb128it's still winter for another 5 days18:24
seb128then it's spring18:24
ogra_meteorologists would disagree :)18:24
seb128lol18:24
seb128ogra_, http://basse-normandie.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/prog4485023.jpg18:25
seb128ogra_, that's france for you this week :p18:25
ogra_EEEK !18:25
ogra_while its -5 here we had twoo beautiful sunny days18:26
seb128ogra_, or http://nord-pas-de-calais.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/congeres.jpg18:26
seb128today was better18:26
seb128it stopped snowing yesterday18:26
seb128it was actually sunny today ;-)18:26
ogra_woah, still bad18:26
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Jmaster I  need the activator window xp crack23:08
sarnoldJmaster: you're in the wrong spot. we _like_ software licenses around here since they're what give us The Powah.23:09
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=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
=== Ursinhal is now known as Ursinha

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