[05:25] <duflu> RAOF: Why is it still on raring, it's random whether my VT font is the BIOS one or the Ubuntu one?
[05:25] <RAOF> duflu: When is it the Ubuntu one?
[05:25] <duflu> RAOF: *Randomly* :P
[05:25] <RAOF> Have you done something to set it to the Ubuntu one?
[05:25] <duflu> RAOF: It's actually meant to be the Ubuntu console font
[05:26] <duflu> But we have a race somewhere so it doesn't apply half the time
[05:26] <duflu> This bug has been around for at least a year
[05:27] <RAOF> Huh. That *should* be set by console-setup in the initramfs.
[05:33] <duflu> RAOF: Couldn't find it for a while but yeah it is assigned to console-setup... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/433897
[05:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 433897 in console-setup "Console/VT font is (randomly) not set (sometimes) on some machines. Stuck with the default VGA BIOS font." [High,Confirmed]
[05:33] <RAOF> duflu: Incidentally, how did you get the Ubuntu console font set up?
[05:33] <RAOF> error: invalid cast from type ‘mir::geometry::PixelFormat’ to type ‘mir::geometry::PixelFormat’ ☹
[05:33] <duflu> RAOF: It is by default out of the box. It's meant to be.
[05:34] <duflu> RAOF: Yeah I was going to fix the PixelFormat(s) soonish
[05:34] <duflu> RAOF: Try a different machine or two. Some machine consistently have the font set. Some consistently don't. And some vary.
[05:36] <duflu> Most people don't notice it as a bug because they only ever see one Ubuntu machine with one font.
[06:29] <pitti> Good morning
[07:09] <tkamppeter> RAOF, hi
[07:26] <didrocks> pitti: I'm afraid I will need your bumping magic again :(
[07:26] <pitti> didrocks: sure
[07:26] <didrocks> oh, no libunity here? let me look for it
[07:27] <didrocks> ah not yet source published in the ppa
[07:31] <RAOF> tkamppeter: Hi.
[07:31] <didrocks> here we go
[07:31] <didrocks> pitti: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/experimental-prevalidation/+build/4371799
[07:31] <didrocks> this is the only urgent one for now
[07:31] <RAOF> tkamppeter: Any luck getting an upstream review of the ghostscript patch?
[07:31] <pitti> didrocks: fait !
[07:31] <didrocks> pitti: merci ;)
[07:32] <RAOF> tkamppeter: I'm not wild about effectively taking a fork of lcms2 because the fork mysteriously fails to segfault with ghostscript.
[07:32] <didrocks> pitti: oh, celui-ci aussi, stp: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/experimental-prevalidation/+build/4371756
[07:33] <pitti> fait aussi
[07:33] <didrocks> merci !
[07:34] <tkamppeter> RAOF, perhaps I let GS then use its own copy of LCMS2 for this cycle, so that LCMS2 gets time to sort it out upstream. Then you better remove everything from LCMS2 (go back to -0ubuntu1 state) and I package GS with its own LCMS2. WDYT?
[07:35] <RAOF> tkamppeter: I don't think there's any particular need to remove the patch I cherry-picked from upstream. Is there something really urgent in GS 9.0.7?
[07:38] <tkamppeter> RAOF, GS 9.07 is simply the current release, there is no urgent fix in it. I could perhaps even skip it.
[07:38] <RAOF> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. If their lcms2 patches get reviewed in time, we can push both through. If not, maybe we're not missing too much?
[07:39] <tkamppeter> RAOF, the only problem I see is that if GS can make the patched LCMS2 crash and so perhaps other programs using LCMS2 can make it crash, too.
[07:40] <RAOF> tkamppeter: That's reasonable. I *think* those programs would need to explicitly use the new symbol to touch the crashy codepath, though?
[07:40] <tkamppeter> RAOF, I am not sure, as I did not look very deeply into the changes.
[07:42] <RAOF> Hm, no, you're right. Everyone will hit the new codepaths.
[07:42] <RAOF> So I should probably revert that patch.
[07:43] <tkamppeter> RAOF, so I will try building GS 9.07 with its own LCMS2 and I recommend you to return to the -0ubuntu1 state.
[07:44] <tkamppeter> RAOF, and I let the upstreams negotiate with each other and to take some months to sort it out.
[07:48] <RAOF> Sounds good.
[08:19] <tkamppeter> RAOF, GS 9.07 with onboard lcms2 is on its way ...
[08:19] <tkamppeter> RAOF, ... a first quick test shows that it is stable.
[08:19] <jgdx> Unity in raring really shines. The dash is appearing instantaneously. Thank you all!
[08:24] <didrocks> jgdx: thanks for the feedback :)
[08:24] <didrocks> (the upstream guys are more on #ubuntu-unity FYI ;))
[08:26] <jgdx> didrocks: I'll go an repeat myself, happily!
[08:26] <didrocks> :)
[08:32] <tkamppeter> RAOF, new GS uploaded, thanks for your help.
[08:39] <seb128> hey desktopers, happy friday
[08:45] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[08:45] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:46] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
[08:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks, how are you?
[08:46] <seb128> still fighting toolchains?
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> oh, i don't think it's a toolchain bug ;)
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> ooh, a different colour this morning: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-ubuntu_mozilla_daily_ppa-firefox-trunk/
[08:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, chromium bug then? is it fixed yet? poke on the shoulder :p
[09:08] <Laney> morning
[09:09] <seb128> Laney, hey, happy friday!
[09:11] <Laney> and to you!
[09:57] <czajkowski> Gooooood Morning
[09:59] <seb128> czajkowski, mooooorning, happy friday!
[09:59] <czajkowski> it's only happy friday as tmorrow is excellent Saturday :0
[09:59] <czajkowski> ;)
[10:00] <seb128> ;-)
[10:38] <Laney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEB74jGanao
[11:01] <m4n1sh> Laney: I guess the majority of the comments you might get would be about your keyboard
[11:01] <Laney> sigh
[11:01] <Laney> you're probably right - and I can't be bothered so I'm going to delete it
[11:02] <Laney> gone
[11:02] <Laney> shame
[11:03] <seb128> Laney, what was the video about? ;-)
[11:03] <Laney> I was demonstrating a bug
[11:04] <Laney> alt+left/right caused a tty switch - most odd
[11:06] <m4n1sh> Laney: sigh. you could have just ignored it
[11:06] <Laney> I showed it to someone else and he said the same thing which made me believe that people would be incapable of seeing the point
[11:10] <m4n1sh> even I had a dirty keyboard a year back before I relocated. I just threw away the keyboard and bought a new one. Cleaning keyboard is hard. Atleast real hard for me
[11:10] <seb128> Laney, did you opt in for some system compositor beta ppa or something?
[11:10] <Laney> no mir in sight ;-)
[11:11] <seb128> k, dunno then :p
[11:11] <Laney> it's gone away now anyway after a restart
[11:32] <chrisccoulson> hi jibel. would you mind running https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-mozillateam_firefox_next-firefox/ again please? (i uploaded a new version yesterday)
[11:33] <jibel> chrisccoulson, done. but it should have started automatically, another jenkins weirdness
[11:34] <chrisccoulson> jibel, cool, thanks!
[11:44] <seb128> pitti, btw did you see my langpack ping yesterday?
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: I did, and I asked dpm some time ago about it; he said he'd investigate
[11:44] <pitti> we don't have LP exports yet
[11:44] <seb128> pitti, ok, thanks, I don't keep IRC running at night so don't have the backlog
[11:44] <pitti> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+language-packs
[11:45] <seb128> pitti, I will check with dpm when he's around
[11:45] <seb128> pitti, can you put https://code.launchpad.net/~altair-ibn-la-ahad/ubuntu/precise/update-notifier/bug-887650/+merge/152556 as work in progress or rejected?
[11:45] <pitti> lequel, WIP ou rej ?
[11:46] <seb128> anything which gets it out of the sponsoring queue until it's fixed by the submitter
[11:46] <seb128> I never know which one is correct...
[11:46] <pitti> ok, so WIP then
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, danke
[11:46] <pitti> WIP -> submitter needs to fix it, but we agree with the change in general
[11:46] <pitti> rejected -> we don't want it
[11:46] <seb128> k
[11:46] <seb128> WIP please then ;-)
[11:46] <pitti> seb128: fait
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, merci
[13:37] <didrocks> Laney: hum, I don't understand your comment on the FFe bug
[13:38] <didrocks> Laney: did you read the bug description?
[13:38] <didrocks> I took great care to explain everything
[13:51] <qengho> coffee |lap >floor
[13:58] <attente> rm floor
[13:59] <Laney> sorry, tpying with one hand
[14:00] <Laney> took  a chunk out of a finger
[14:00] <Laney> didrocks: was hoping for a list or so
[14:00] <Laney> let me look
[14:01] <seb128> Laney, be careful, those finger things can be handy
[14:02] <Laney> the update makes it clearer
[14:02] <Laney> seb128: indeed, its been bleeding for 1 hour now
[14:02] <Laney> holding it up over my head
[14:02] <seb128> urg
[14:02] <seb128> did you cut it while cooking or something?
[14:03] <Laney> was cutting with scissors and it slipped
[14:05] <desrt> Laney: dude... leave your computer and seek medical help
[14:05] <desrt> cuts shouldn't bleed for an hour
[14:06] <Laney> yeah it's a decent chunk
[14:06] <Laney> slowing now
[14:06] <desrt> find someone to go with you
[14:12] <Laney> ah, it's stopped now ;-)
[14:18] <czajkowski> Laney: cold tea, bleeding finger, odd bugs, you're not having a good day are you
[14:18] <Laney> seems pretty standard to me :P
[14:22] <Laney> hmm, I was going to go climbing this evening...
[14:22] <GunnarHj> seb128: That was a fast first response. :)
[14:22] <seb128> GunnarHj, hehe, non-code-review comments is the easy part ;-)
[14:23] <seb128> GunnarHj, I was doing some patch piloting as well this morning
[14:23] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. I submitted a few short answers.
[14:23] <seb128> thanks
[14:24] <GunnarHj> seb128: I have thought about the integration between xkb and im. How likely is it that we will adapt that part of the region capplet?
[14:25] <GunnarHj> adopt
[14:25] <GunnarHj> after 13.04, I mean.
[14:26] <seb128> we should try to get that in if it makes sense
[14:26] <seb128> otherwise our diff over upstream is not easy to manage
[14:28] <GunnarHj> seb128: I do understand about that giant diff. But there are a few issues. One of them is that ibus is not perfect for all im users - there seems not to be a perfect IMF at all. Therefore the model with im-config, that lets users easily choose their preferred IMF, seems to have its advantages.
[14:29] <GunnarHj> seb128: I can think that this would be a suitable topic at next (v)UDS.
[14:30] <GunnarHj> seb128: It's the im users who should decide our route in this respect, IMO.
[14:31] <seb128> GunnarHj, there was a discussion in this vUDS about input methods (I didn't look at the outcome yet though)
[14:31] <seb128> GunnarHj, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ubuntukylin-inputmethod-ibus-or-fcitx
[14:31] <Laney> they went for fcitx
[14:31] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:32] <Laney> AFAIK, anyway
[14:32] <seb128> we should probably build our indicators with backends
[14:32] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, I participated in that one, but it didn't cover this topic.
[14:32] <seb128> and support both
[14:32] <seb128> we have 2 ways
[14:32] <seb128> improve/fix ibus to be good enough for everyone
[14:32] <seb128> or fcitx
[14:32] <seb128> well let's say "pick a framework and do what is needed to make it suitable"
[14:33] <seb128> or "let different locales use different frameworks and deal with those from the ui side by having backends"
[14:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, so you preclude that we keep using im-config?
[14:33] <seb128> sorry, I don't know enough about the topic
[14:33] <seb128> what is im-config doing exactly?
[14:34] <seb128> is that to let user select if they want ibus or fcitx or ...?
[14:35] <GunnarHj> seb128: It lets you switch between different frameworks, and configure the one you choose by setting some env. variables.
[14:35] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yes, you can say that it lets the user easily select ibus, fcitx etc.
[14:36] <pitti> c'est l'heure de glace!!!
[14:36] <seb128> pitti, y a de la glace partout ici tjs ... ;-)
[14:36] <GunnarHj> seb128: And that approach is difficult to keep with the new GNOME model.
[14:36] <seb128> pitti, bonne glace !
[14:37] <seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, as said there are 2 way forward, one is to enforce a framework and make it good enough for everyone, the other one is to keep allowing flexibility
[14:37] <GunnarHj> seb128: I can propose a blueprint, if you like.
[14:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, we had some, I've the feeling that what we lack is people knowing enough about the topic and needs to lead the discussions to a conclusion
[14:39] <seb128> the topic is an hard one as well
[14:39] <GunnarHj> seb128: Maybe we should ask somebody who knows the topic better, like happyaron.
[14:39] <seb128> it's a vast topic
[14:39] <seb128> somebody from China might not have a good understand of what  people in Russia need
[14:40] <seb128> understanding
[14:40] <GunnarHj> seb128: That's true, unfortunately.
[14:40] <seb128> seems even users in different part of China have different opinion about the topic
[14:40] <seb128> some dialects are supported correctly by ibus
[14:40] <seb128> some others are not
[14:41] <GunnarHj> seb128: Which speaks for keeping flexibility for now. ;-)
[14:41] <seb128> flexibility has a cost, it means have to support several stacks and integration from the UI which all of those
[14:41] <seb128> having*
[14:41] <GunnarHj> seb128: True.
[14:42] <seb128> it also means you might have different UI/behaviour depending on your locale
[14:42] <GunnarHj> seb128: Didn't understand the last one.
[14:42] <seb128> and it might be hard to handle installations/activation of the right one for users
[14:42] <seb128> well, maybe ibus and fcitx don't have the same capabilities/interaction model
[14:43] <seb128> which would reflect in a different interface for e.g the indicator
[14:43] <seb128> or the settings panel
[14:43] <seb128> so you have to deal with documentation trying to explain the differences
[14:43] <seb128> and you need to make sure every locale lands on using the correct framework
[14:44] <GunnarHj> seb128: Both ibus and fcitx have decent interfaces, AFAICT, which you can reach via an icon at the top bar.
[14:47] <GunnarHj> seb128: But to be honest, I'm not capable of comparing pros and cons here. A group of im users from different countries should be consulted, IMO. A topic at next UDS might give you a better base for decision.
[14:48] <seb128> GunnarHj, agreed
[14:48] <desrt> pitti: hey.  noticed you uploaded an upgraded systemd to universe
[14:49] <desrt> oh.  disregard.
[14:49] <GunnarHj> seb128: I'll talk to happyaron, and see if we can propose a suitable blueprint topic.
[14:50]  * desrt was going to tell you to cherry-pick a patch from git but it seems that systemd has a pretty aggressive release schedule
[14:50] <seb128> GunnarHj, thanks
[14:50] <GunnarHj> seb128: No problem.
[15:46] <Sweetsha1k> pitti: reading the bashism bikeshed flying by, I noticed you did a prominent one right at http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/auto-pkg-test.html ;)
[15:46] <Sweetshark> pitti: IIRC $() isnt POSIXy, only `` is.
[15:47] <ogra_> both work though ... there is worse stuff
[15:47] <ogra_> and i'm personally ony concerned when it comes to startup scripts etc
[15:47] <ogra_> adding seconds to your boot because there are 10something bash scripts running etc
[15:48] <Sweetshark> ogra_: I did work at Sun Microsystems and had to keep Solaris happy. Dont tell me that was wasted time! ;)
[15:48] <Laney> $() is POSIX
[15:48] <ogra_> yeah but even `` will work in POSIX code
[15:48] <ogra_> there is other stuff that will make your script crash and burn
[15:49] <ogra_> and arrays should be patched outr fo our bash package :P
[15:50] <ogra_> *out of
[15:51] <Sweetshark> ogra_: but while we are at it, whats a sane way to solve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1141106 without getting non-POSIXy?
[15:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1141106 in libreoffice "usr/bin/libreoffice script bad symlink following" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[15:51] <Sweetshark> ogra_: neither the stat command, nor the readlink one are POSIX IIRC/
[15:52] <Sweetshark> (note: Im not saying that the sed madness is sane)
[15:53] <ogra_> why do you care ? that runs in the users session ... where the default shell is bash anyway
[15:54] <Sweetshark> ogra_: on all operating systems?
[15:54] <Laney> they're both executables?
[15:56] <Sweetshark> heh, vim syntax highlighting for posix-sh is complaining about $() though
[15:59] <Sweetshark> ah, heh. e.g. solaris 8 is not supporting $() thats why.
[15:59] <Laney> It was added in 2004 IIRC
[16:01] <Laney> I have let g:is_posix = 1 in my .vimrc which I think I added to get around that
[16:09] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[16:09] <seb128> kenvandine, is there any reason you never uploaded that fix for signon-ui to exit on idle?
[16:11] <kenvandine> i thought i did
[16:11] <seb128> kenvandine, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/signon-ui/+changelog ?
[16:12] <kenvandine> :/
[16:12] <kenvandine> i guess that only went to the PPA
[16:12] <kenvandine> i remember waiting for it to be reviewed before uploading to raring
[16:15] <seb128> kenvandine, can you get it uploaded? ;-)
[16:17] <kenvandine> seb128, sure
[16:17] <kenvandine> probably monday though :)
[16:17] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:17] <seb128> no hurry
[16:17]  * seb128 \o/ at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/account-plugins/+bug/1044055
[16:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1044055 in gnome-control-center-signon "online-accounts does not allow a way to disable a particular application" [Undecided,Triaged]
[16:22] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah we want that in too
[16:23] <seb128> kenvandine, it got acked ;-)
[16:23] <kenvandine> great, i hadn't noticed
[16:23] <kenvandine> woot
[16:23] <seb128> kenvandine, mardy was trying to push for the new e-d-s/evo as well, they added uoa support apparently, but that one seems out of scope for the cycle
[16:23] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:23] <kenvandine> too risky
[16:24] <seb128> too much work as well
[16:24] <seb128> they dropped a lib and changed some soname I think
[16:24] <seb128> not to mention that new evo might need new gtk
[16:24] <kenvandine> although current version is crashy as hell :/
[16:25] <seb128> we will get the new one in a month...
[16:26] <kenvandine> seb128, after my sdk dev session this afternoon, i am going to file some MIRs and an FFe bug for friends/gwibber :)
[16:27] <seb128> cool
[16:28] <pitti> seb128: merci, il était bien !
[16:28] <pitti> Sweetshark: srsly? `` doesn't nest, I thought $() was POSIXy too
[16:31] <desrt> pitti: hey.  rumour has it you're patching logind
[16:32] <desrt> can't we add something to the shim instead?
[16:33] <pitti> desrt: I'm patching our systemd package in many ways, indeed
[16:33] <pitti> desrt: not sure, does your shim actually track sessions and cgroups? If so, we could get rid of the "old sessions cleanup" patch
[16:33] <desrt> pitti: if you're patching logind to avoid having it talk to systemd (pid1) because we don't have it, i think we should rather allow it to continue talking to the systemd dbus interface but use our shim implementation
[16:33] <pitti> desrt: I haven't looked at the shim yet
[16:33] <desrt> the shim is very dumb right now
[16:33] <pitti> desrt: no, I'm not
[16:33] <desrt> but i expect to expand it....
[16:36] <Sweetshark> pitti: so it seems modern POSIX supports $(), older POSIX doesnt. As AST said: "The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from."
[16:36] <pitti> Sweetshark: for autopkgtest, "works in dash" is POSIXly enough :)
[16:37] <Sweetshark> pitti: I will get back to you with a vengance when we port Ubuntu to Solaris 8!
[16:38] <pitti> *pfft*
[16:40] <Sweetshark> pitti: btw ...
[16:41]  * Sweetshark is just adding some 52 Junit test to run as autopkgtest against an LO4 installation
[16:42] <Sweetshark> (tests run for some ~7 minutes with -j16)
[16:42] <Sweetshark> so yeah, some coverage there ;)
[17:09] <seb128> attente, hey
[17:10] <attente> seb128, hey
[17:10] <seb128> attente, how are you?
[17:10] <attente> pretty good, you?
[17:10] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[17:11] <seb128> you said earlier in the week that you were starting looking at the keyboard indicator stuff?
[17:11] <attente> yep
[17:11] <seb128> (sorry I didn't get back to you earlier about that)
[17:11] <seb128> what are you going for atm ?
[17:11] <seb128> attente, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeyboardSettings (design from mpt)?
[17:12] <attente> i'm starting based on this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TextEntry
[17:12] <seb128> ok, good
[17:12] <attente> heh, links to the same thing
[17:12] <seb128> the topic is complex, I tried to wrap my head around it a couple of time but I just don't know enough about input methods
[17:13] <seb128> attente, did you pick a "backend"? like do you plan to enforce using ibus?
[17:13] <seb128> or do you plan to have it work with either ibus or fcitx?
[17:13] <attente> seb128, i haven't thought that far ahead yet, i'm just trying to get a basic indicator working :)
[17:15] <seb128> ok
[17:15] <seb128> attente, you might want to abstract the input method framework
[17:15] <seb128> attente, it's not impossible that we move to something else than ibus in the future, I'm not sure those decision at set in stone
[17:16] <attente> seb128, ok, i'll keep that in mind
[17:16] <seb128> thanks
[17:16] <seb128> attente, also you might want to get familiar with what GNOME has been doing, we should probably use a similar logic
[17:16] <seb128> attente, in particular we want to get ride of libxklavier and libgnomekbd
[17:17] <seb128> so we should use those to change keyboard layouts
[17:17] <seb128> shouldn't*
[17:17] <attente> ok
[17:17] <seb128> attente, good luck with that, let me know if you have any issue/concerns
[17:18] <attente> seb128, will do, thanks!
[17:20] <seb128> attente, oh, and lool suggested that we (as "collectively for Ubuntu") should start discussing ibus/fcitx/input methods, I will probably set up a meeting next week and invite people around who package input methods or the people working on ubuntukylin (a chinese edition of Ubuntu), I will invite you as well
[17:23] <attente> seb128, ok
[17:34] <seb128> pitti, what do you mean by "systemd-services in universe for now, as the FFE hasn't been approved yet."?
[17:35] <seb128> pitti, bug #1153567 got acked? or do you speak about the logind one (at they both in the same binary?)
[17:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1153567 in ubuntu-system-service (Ubuntu) "[FFE] Use systemd-services rather than ubuntu-system-service systemdcompatibility code" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1153567
[17:35] <pitti> seb128: yeah, the logind FFE hasn't been approved yet
[17:36] <pitti> seb128: ah, I merged logind into systemd-services because the Debian guys didn't like that over-splitting
[17:36] <seb128> pitti, ok, I guess it's fine if we get the logind FFE approved
[17:36] <seb128> otherwise we will need to figure what to do
[17:36] <pitti> seb128: if you want the dbus services now, we need to split it back out again, or merely disable the upstart job as a quickfix
[17:37] <seb128> pitti, systemd-shim is still waiting MIR review from sarnold so no hurry
[17:37] <seb128> we can see what happens to logind next week
[17:37] <seb128> and decide either way
[17:37] <pitti> what does that shim do, BTW?
[17:37] <seb128> it provides the interfaces the services need
[17:37] <seb128> e.g is ntp active
[17:37] <seb128> or activate ntp
[17:38] <seb128> that's need for timedated/the control panel service
[17:46] <pitti> I hope there won't be too much software which checks for the dbus iface and tries to talk to the real systemd
[17:47] <seb128> pitti, right, same for me, I mentioned that to desrt when he decided to go this way
[17:49] <ogra_> we shuld just have merged CK into upstart :P
[17:50] <ogra_> all that pain with half used systemd
[17:51] <pitti> that's not the point
[17:51] <pitti> CK itself still works, but less and less software uses it
[17:52] <ogra_> yeah, and i wasnt really serious :) i could as well said we should just use gentoo as upstream in the future ....
[17:52] <ogra_> +have
[17:52] <ogra_> i know what we do is the best solution for now
[17:52] <ogra_> but i have the feeling that lennart will work towards making what we do impossible in the future
[17:53] <ogra_> the deeper the systemd integration will go, the harder it will become
[17:53] <pitti> believe me, it's already quite hard -- I've worked on this for over a week now
[17:53] <ogra_> but i'm just stating the obvious
[17:54] <ogra_> no doubt on that
[17:59]  * didrocks waves good evening :)
[18:01] <Laney> happy weekend!
[18:08] <seb128> Laney, to you too!
[18:08] <Laney> hoping the rain stays off so I can get out on my new bike ;-)
[18:09] <seb128> Laney, we can maybe send you some ice and snow with -5°C if you prefer :p
[18:10]  * Laney runs
[18:22] <ogra_> seb128, dare you ! that has to go past germany if you send it from down there
[18:23] <seb128> ogra_, real german winter, you can't complain!
[18:23] <ogra_> well, yeah, i wouldnt, if it axtually *was* winter ...
[18:24] <ogra_> on TV they said its spring ... must be true if its on TV
[18:24] <seb128> it's still winter for another 5 days
[18:24] <seb128> then it's spring
[18:24] <ogra_> meteorologists would disagree :)
[18:24] <seb128> lol
[18:25] <seb128> ogra_, http://basse-normandie.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/prog4485023.jpg
[18:25] <seb128> ogra_, that's france for you this week :p
[18:25] <ogra_> EEEK !
[18:26] <ogra_> while its -5 here we had twoo beautiful sunny days
[18:26] <seb128> ogra_, or http://nord-pas-de-calais.france3.fr/sites/regions_france3/files/styles/top_big/public/assets/images/congeres.jpg
[18:26] <seb128> today was better
[18:26] <seb128> it stopped snowing yesterday
[18:26] <seb128> it was actually sunny today ;-)
[18:26] <ogra_> woah, still bad
[23:08] <Jmaster>  I  need the activator window xp crack
[23:09] <sarnold> Jmaster: you're in the wrong spot. we _like_ software licenses around here since they're what give us The Powah.