[00:12] is there anything like kaffeine for Lubuntu to watch tv (dvb-t)? [00:14] and another question ... where can configure proxy settings at Lubuntu to access the web? [00:18] miglo: usually kde stuff does not try to pull in 20 million dependancys in. I'd suggest asking synaptic package manager to install it; it will then tell you everything else it needs to work. We do not have a dvb-t system native to lubuntu. [00:22] tvtime still works for me [00:26] tvtime looks promising - thanks for the hint [00:28] I'm thinking about to switch completely from kubuntu to lubuntu, so I'm checking how to replace my favorite applications [01:37] Is Lubuntu likely to use wayland or ill it follow ubuntu into Mir? [01:41] not sure, but it seems like mark wants to follow google and start making major components of the os in house, in my eyes it looks like taking the hardwork of others and trying to proprietize it [01:41] and i know thats not a word lol [02:11] BWMerlin: what ubuntu do for their desktop is for them, we do not use unity, Mir etc. [04:38] I like Lubuntu and teh possibility of using it on my machines but the following really concerned me: Please note that Lubuntu 12.04 is not an LTS (5 years support), but a 'standard' release, supported for 18 months. This is simply due the fact there is insufficient 'man-power' to commit to 5 years of support. [04:39] that is true, [04:39] however, since its built off the same source code, the guts of that os will be supported for 5 years, maybe not offically but at least through updates [04:40] I would think that this would match a rolling release perfectly then. [04:40] Even if not stated, that is actually what it is [04:41] to some extent yes, however updates will not continue past what is appropriate for the lts release [04:42] Maybe that statement then could be stated another way? To build confidence rather than disuade it>? [04:43] To me that statement says here is a release, it is as good as we have people to maintain it. [04:43] >Hey, just my thoughts [04:44] Build confidence in=actual confidence performed [04:44] you can always install ubuntu or xubuntu etc [04:44] if you want the confidence [04:45] although to me its not that much different [04:45] Yup, I'm just adding my opinions here [04:45] are you going to calling canonical for a lubuntu machine? [04:45] ? [04:46] in other words, how many people will being paying canoncial for professional support on a lubuntu pc [04:46] most lubuntu computers are made up from older machines, usually personal machines, [04:47] to me, being an average person, besides the updates and stability [04:47] lts means nothing [04:47] i'm not a company needing canonicals paid support [04:47] I'm still not sure what that has to do with my comments [04:47] needing reassurance of lubuntu being supported for five years, [04:47] the guts of it are naturally supported [04:47] Ok, then go rolling [04:48] Don't claim to be aroung for 5 years. Claim to support the best you can now. [04:49] i heard it explained like this, lets say there is a new version of lxterm, it might not be updated and or backported to lubuntu 12.04 [04:50] u must seperate in your mind the desktop from the os [04:50] and? [04:51] they compliment eachother , they are not the same, no LTS support is for the Lubuntu desktop, not for the core ubuntu system [04:51] Look, you produce a very good o/s. You have a great repository. Why waste that with revisions and long term supports?. You will always support the current, rolliing release. [04:52] Keep the vision in mind of course [04:52] Set your goals of how lightweight you wnat to be. [04:52] how old the minimum hardware can be >(that is the oldest the oldest revision can be) [04:52] you must look at the inbetween releases as betas [04:53] and the lts release as the commercial product [04:55] I understand that. I also understand that if I use older hardware, I 'm not interested in the latest and greatest. How much can really change over the short term if I'm really looking to keep my older hardware alive? [04:56] plenty, older hardware gets dropped in support on with each new release [04:57] It seems to me as though you have a philosophy of keeping an Ubuntu version for the older machines current, but you don't have to release as many changes as the true Ubuntu does. It would serve no purpose. [04:57] case in point the last release to lubuntu 12.10 dropped support for many older graphics cards [04:57] not lubuntu's fault but nvidia and ati [04:57] in the older release the older drivers were available and worked without issue [04:58] Ah, I understand you now. Be Ubuntu, just 5 releases ago. [04:58] except for the fact that there needs to be testing releases and development [04:58] All the time, just shifting\ [04:58] not much can be done without feedback [04:58] i'm not sure what your purpose here is [04:59] Just idea tossing [04:59] You make a great distro btw [04:59] not me, lubuntu team [04:59] i'm just hanging out [04:59] hey, just my thoughts [05:00] Lubuntu/Xubunu....I have a tough time deciding [05:05] kick ass linux promo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njos57IJf-0 [05:08] phillw around? [05:13] Well I guess my bottom line is that adding that paragraph onto you front page does not instll confidence to use Lubjuntu as you main o/s. [05:14] keithclark: whats that? [05:14] without the sticker of approval from canoncial about lubuntu being lts he thinks its inferior [05:14] No, this one<: [05:14] Please note that Lubuntu 12.04 is not an LTS (5 years support), but a 'standard' release, supported for 18 months. This is simply due the fact there is insufficient 'man-power' to commit to 5 years of support. [05:15] keithclark: you dont have to use it. you can use ubuntu and add lxde [05:15] keithclark: the idea is, the team/community doesnt want to commit to supporting lubuntu for 5 years [05:15] Ok, I understand. Hey, it was just my impression as a user [05:15] talk about splitting ends [05:16] Look like your eyes are new [05:16] my question is of course then, how does canonical know if you called them up, whether your running lubuntu or ubuntu with lxde [05:16] seems like symantics to me [05:16] keithclark: its a very small team that actually puts out a nice polished product that feeds other projects [05:17] Don't be defensive [05:17] Look as if your eyes were new [05:17] keithclark: i'll be as i choose [05:17] keithclark: im stating facts.. however, i mean it not to be combative [05:17] Ok, take care folks. I hope I could at least offer an opinion [05:18] keithclark: you can do more than that [05:18] keithclark: you can actually join and fix/suggest [05:18] >I am right now [05:18] keithclark: its an open community.. but to "solve" the situation would take addressing the manpower [05:18] nah, complaining is easier :) [05:18] Yes, but don't state it that way upfront. [05:19] Not a confidence builder [05:19] "Come with us but we might not be arount" [05:19] keithclark: i dont think the lubuntu project has "build confidence" as a goal [05:19] *around [05:19] Get the bad idea? [05:19] might not be around? [05:19] Maybe I shoud restart [05:19] lubuntu is about the most consistent lxde distro available [05:20] keithclark: i dont actually.. i see it like this.. we are a small team that are comfortable providing 18 months support.. not 5 years [05:20] and long standing at this point [05:20] Hold on [05:20] rest assured they will be around [05:20] Hold on [05:20] Ok, I'm just trying to portray one version of your wording [05:20] keithclark: the statment is not "we might not be here, use caution".. its just, "we are small, and provide 18 months, not 5 years" [05:20] keithclark: its not my wording [05:20] i think you like being difficult just to be difficult, no rhyme or reason, just wanting to win some arbitrary argument [05:21] Ok, then I shall go, I just thought you would appreciate some feedback. [05:21] keithclark: there are no versions of it though.. its just a statement to answer the question "why is lubuntu 12.04 not lts" [05:21] appreciated [05:22] keithclark: the #lubuntu-offtopic channel is the unofficial dev channel.. also, try the mailing list [05:22] IWhy so angry though? [05:22] keithclark: anger? [05:22] who is angry? when explanations aren't enough, what else can you do? [05:22] Ok, sorry then. I'm just a user [05:23] keithclark: i am not angry, i am just reinforcing what i read in that sentence.. which is just what it says [05:23] wasn't that a line in tron? [05:23] maybe think about becoming a helper [05:23] keithclark: i dont see the fear and doubt in it.. [05:23] me either holstein [05:23] keithclark: i would like to keep this constructive though, and make sure you can feel like there is no doubt there either [05:24] i think he believes that in 18 months everything will stop working or something [05:24] lots do [05:24] i don't agree [05:24] but lots do [05:24] hmmm weird [05:25] keithclark: the 12.04 repos will be up.. just, the lubuntu specific things are not supported, or tested, or guaranteed to work by this team [05:25] what do they think when they are using an xp machine then? [05:25] however to me lts seems like lip service, really [05:25] to me it also seems like, whats the difference, like was said earlier, lubuntu or ubuntu with lxde [05:26] for me, LTS is just the time the servers are up for the repos.. and the package maintenance by the community in them [05:26] uhmmm...... same base code, therego same updates pushed for five years, for the most part [05:26] Hey, I just came here looking for an alternative to Ubuntu. I've tried Xubuntu and Knoppix. Knoppix was impressive but wanted to stay more to the Ubuntu family. [05:26] well, lubuntu IS an alternative [05:27] So I came along Lu bjntu. The only concern I had was your disclaimner [05:27] problem solved :) [05:27] when is the last time you called canonical for support? [05:27] it's an issue of semantics [05:27] if never then problem solved [05:27] ↑ good point, lxle ! [05:27] I don't think you get my point here [05:28] keithclark: i would just try it, and see if it fits your needs.. see first hand if its what you are looking for [05:28] sure we do [05:28] the point is moot if the reason is never used [05:28] we've dealt with this time and time again why is why the disclaimer is there :) [05:28] keithclark: the team will not extend the support of 12.04.. though, if you'd like to ask for another sentence about why its not supported to be there, that might be able to be arranged [05:29] let me add to what holstein said [05:29] Then why claim/disclaim it at all? [05:29] the team will not OFFICIALLY support 12.04 [05:29] doesn't mean you can't get support [05:29] keithclark: so users know that 12.04 is not an LTS, like the other flavors [05:29] unofficially is a different story, in other words, your good dude, stop sweating it [05:29] Don't addres it [05:29] the volunteers like us are generally content with helping anyone [05:30] This seems to be a major problem with your distro [05:30] and we do have folks that because of their hardware use 10.04 [05:30] keithclark: its different.. all the other 12.04 flavors are LTS.. actively supported by larger teams and communities.. the fact that lubuntu is not needs to be mentnioned [05:30] keithclark: its not a problem.. its a difference [05:30] Then live it [05:30] can you show me another lxde distro that has 5 year support? [05:30] Don't deny it [05:30] we do live it [05:30] we all use it :) [05:31] would love to see it [05:31] Be proud, don't deny it. [05:31] keithclark: i dont think anyone is trying to deny.. its in an effort for information.. so one doesnt assume 12.04 lubuntu is supported for 5 years [05:31] * wxl is proud [05:31] keithclark: ? [05:31] State that. [05:31] keithclark: no one is denying anything [05:31] if you can find another lxde distro with 5 years support then i'll hear the rest of this pointless argument [05:31] keithclark: thats what the statement states [05:31] What is with the 5 year support? [05:31] Ignore that [05:31] thats what your upset about [05:32] lubuntu not having five year support [05:32] State what you do support instead [05:32] keithclark: that is what *all* other 12.04 versions are [05:32] !lts [05:32] they did [05:32] LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; with the exception of 12.04 (Precise Pangolin), which will be supported for 5 years on the desktop. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Precise (Precise Pangolin 12.04) [05:32] 18 months [05:32] keithclark: see that output ^^ that is what *all* other 12.04 flavors are [05:33] keithclark: the statement is framed in this way 'why is lubuntu not lts like the others?'.. which is a valid question, and a reason to mention the 5 years [05:33] i'm still waiting for a link to this mysterious lxde distro with years and years of support to surface [05:33] Well I'll tell you what, if you get this question over and over again. If you get agitatged by this question over and over again then there is a perception issue thart you need to solve. It is not us users that is the issue. We just download and use the o/s, not the philosophy. [05:33] in other words, regarless if its only 18months, i bet you can't find another lxde distro that even gives you that much [05:34] keithclark: it cant be simply ignored, because stating that its supported for 18 months would raise the question "well, not the lts one, not 12.04, right?" [05:34] and that is wrong [05:34] keithclark: we actually dont [05:34] keithclark: folks look, and see that the 12.o4 is *not* and lts [05:35] keithclark: its not that im asking you to subscribe to a philosophy either.. just to understand that there is already an LTS system in place, and lubuntu is not offering that [05:35] keithclark: if you are new to the ecosystem and community, and the concept of an LTS is new, then that is understandable [05:36] Ok, then I don't get the whole thing. Fair enough. I've offerd my views. Take them as you need. [05:36] its uncessarily complex, and actually being actively discussed upstream.. not having an LTS.. or when to do them or why [05:36] but, here is the fact.. there *is* a 12.04 LTS.. *every* other ubuntu.. but lubuntu is not doing that.. so that must be addressed in the statement you read [05:36] from what i gather, it will be lts release, with rolliing releases in between [05:37] its not meant to either gain nor influence your "trust" [05:37] its only stating that "unlike the other 12.04 versions, this one is not supported for 5 years, so dont expect that" [05:37] holstein: no trust is required but that with which I'd trust with my personal information. [05:38] its like , the rest of the ubuntu team signed up to work 3 jobs, the lubuntu team was small and could only sign up for 2 jobs consistently, however that doesn't mean that lubuntu won't work part time at the 3rd job :) [05:38] keithclark: you are not offerering a view though [05:38] keithclark: you offer a better sentence, and i'll read it [05:38] hey keith this is easy [05:38] go get another distro [05:38] solved [05:38] now go [05:38] keithclark: this is an open community.. but, as i said, the 5 years need be mentioned.. [05:38] lxle: ok, thanks and have a great night. [05:39] whats the point of saying i can't use this cuz i'm scared, when other options are available [05:39] keithclark: so, if you have a constructive change to offer, you can offer that here, or in the other channel, or the mailing list [05:39] use what your not scared to use [05:39] holstein: I thought I did [05:39] explanations have been given [05:39] keithclark: otherwise, if the issue is just with your "trust".. try the disto, and if it works for you, go for it [05:39] enough said [05:39] keithclark: i didnt see it.. where is your suggestion? [05:39] gentle heartedness @ freenode [05:39] this will take a while [05:39] lol [05:40] ya, i'm not too good at that after about an hour or so of explaining [05:40] especially when its not really tracking down a "problem" [05:40] i would like to move this the the #lubuntu-offtopic channel keithclark [05:41] ok, nevermind. Thanks for the great night. I've tried to explain my initlial reaction to a paragraph on your website that I found interesting. If you choose not to use that, then fine. [05:41] keithclark: use what? [05:42] hes insight perhaps [05:42] keithclark: we cant use a reaction.. just a suggestion [05:42] he thinks we are going to use complaining about something trivial to change something trivial [05:42] Holy cow, I was just suggesting [05:42] keithclark: where? [05:42] keithclark: i see no sentence [05:42] Ok, never mind. Have a great evening folks. [05:42] keithclark: cheers! [05:43] there isn't one constructive idea, only complaints of the lubuntu team not doing what ubuntu is doing, although we explained why and that he is free to use another distro the convo continues [05:43] keithclark: in the future, use this channel for support only, and /join #lubuntu-offtopic for suggestions [05:46] In the future, be more understanding of newer users, their opinions and where they came from. Understand that they might just want to help and if you don't wnat their help, let them down slowlyl. [05:47] keithclark: i would similarly encourage you to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you [05:47] I agreed to disagree several times. [05:47] so then we're done talking about it, cool. [05:48] Ok, so this help session is recorded>? [05:48] everything is recorded :) [05:48] keithclark: i welcome your help.. please take it to the proper channel.. #lubuntu-offtopic [05:48] Ok, thanks. [05:48] keithclark: join there and share what sentence you would like to see instead.. but we need a sentence [05:49] keithclark: are you referring to the wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu ? [05:49] holstein: why so negative? [05:49] keithclark: holstein is encouraging your feedback, so why do you see it as negative? [05:50] holstein has been incredibly patient and positive,, [05:50] keithclark: i am positively, and non-combatively inviting you to the proper channel.. #lubuntu-offtopic ,and i look forward to reading your suggestion [05:50] I'll join. [05:56] I think his main point is the prominence of the information than anything. I updated the front page as it's not even the most currently release anyway. [05:58] #/join lubuntu [05:58] jared: i like it [05:58] keithclark: was the problem only on the wiki page? [05:58] keithclark: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu was just updated by jared [05:58] If so have a quick look and let me know what you think. If it's elsewhere I can't really help (no access) [05:59] holstein: I think he had a fair point, possibly slight language issues prevented understanding. [05:59] not buying that [06:00] there are those that like to argue and won't stop until concession [06:00] jared: i like what you have much better, thanks! [06:00] lxle: have a look and see what you think - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu?action=diff&rev2=231&rev1=230 [06:01] jared thats good [06:02] very good actually [06:02] I believe that was essentially the main point the user was suggesting. I didn't read the scrollback line by line but the top and bottom bits. [06:02] published already? [06:02] Yeah, if people don't like it they can revert. [06:02] I'm just a guy who knows how to write wikis, no special powers here :) [06:05] hopefull that will settle some possible fears [06:05] and spurn some help [06:05] I was never worried, I wouldn't anticipate using any release on my computer for longer than a year or two without update anyway. [06:06] :D [06:06] BUT YOUR SERVER COULD DIE [06:06] LOL [06:06] I wouldn't be running a GUI on a server either [06:07] speaking of updates, do-release-upgrade is all done, so i'm going to restart [06:07] i just realized that synaptic has screwed up my spelling of symantics LOL [06:07] And my procrastination needs to end, the assignment won't write itself. [06:22] well that was lame [06:50] Hi there, can anyone help me please? [06:50] !ask [06:50] Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience [06:50] I'm having trouble configuring my monitor resolution, and keeping it permanent. [06:50] how are you doing it? [06:51] I ran a game with WINE, and when it closed, took it down to 1024x7something, when it should be 1360x768 [06:51] Welllll.. Can I give you the link I'm using to set it? [06:51] http://www.sudo-juice.com/change-lxde-screen-resolution-ubuntu-lubuntu/ [06:51] so you have no problems outside of wine? [06:51] WINE messed it up, and I can't get it back. :( [06:51] And the old reso isn't in lxrandr. [06:52] Oh, and in the directory the link provides, I know LXDE should be Lubuntu. [06:52] hm [06:53] But before that, I added the new mode in and whatnot... Let me paste the link I used for that info. [06:53] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1984990 [06:53] So, I added the new mode, as such. Then, I followed the instructions on the first link to try and make it permanent, but it's still not working. [06:54] so you can get lxrandr to set the resolution? [06:54] I can't... [06:54] It's not an available option now. [06:54] not permanently [06:54] Freshly rebooted the computer. [06:54] but at all? [06:54] can you just run the command and it works? [06:54] Yes, correct. Not permanently, but temporarily, yeah, it was working just fine. [06:54] so you've added the command with the @ sign before it to what file? [06:55] >_> [06:55] To /etc/xdg/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart [06:55] which is right [06:55] hm [06:56] you do have the @ sign, right? :) [06:56] Yes. :) [06:57] I'm quite stumped. [06:57] I'm going to try running the commands in terminal again. [06:57] Just to make sure they keep working. [06:57] is this quantal? [06:58] The latest Lubuntu. [06:58] Yes. [06:58] And for some reason, the resolution didn't change this time. That's.... Strange. [06:58] well 13.04 is the latest :) [06:58] None of the commands have been altered or changed in any way. [06:58] it's even got an official beta release :) [06:58] Oh. [06:58] Then this is Quantal. [06:58] indeed that's quite strange [06:59] :x [06:59] 12.10, that is. :P [06:59] Should I go get TeamViewer or something? [06:59] uh no :) [06:59] i'm kind of stumped by your issue, really [07:00] however, i just upgraded to quantal am having my own issues with that file [07:00] Because at this point I haven't the slightest clue of what to do. It was working. [07:00] not for the same reasons [07:00] Well, I also tried something, that didn't work. [07:00] @xrandr --newmode "1360x768_60.00" 84.75 1360 1432 1568 1776 768 771 781 798 -hsync +vsync @xrandr --addmode VGA-1 1360x768_60 @xrandr --output VGA-1 --mode 1360x768_60 [07:01] All those in the autostart. [07:01] one thing i might suggest, and this may not work, but it's worth a shot, is to check on the wine channel and see if they have had experience with wine permanently affecting the resolution [07:01] I haven't seen anything there. [07:01] But I've looked. [07:01] the irc channel [07:01] Oh. Is that also freenode? [07:02] no :) [07:02] actually yes [07:03] http://www.winehq.org/irc [07:03] Oooooh. [07:04] I may just upgrade to the beta, see if that may fix it. >_> [07:04] well you can use the live cd [07:06] Analog: question [07:06] Sure. [07:06] does ~/.config/lxsession/Lubuntu/autostart exist on your machine? [07:06] Let me check, one second. [07:07] I don't seem to have a .config directory... [07:07] >_> [07:08] well that's not htat probelm then [07:08] Found it. [07:08] But I do see a desktop.conf... [07:08] I don't see autostart there... [07:08] ok [07:08] again, not that problem [07:09] So, it's good, then? [07:09] Or should I copy the autostart to that directory as well? [07:09] no [07:09] you don't want it [07:09] i gotta brb [07:10] Oh, I don't want that... Okay. [07:11] I wonder if I should delete that directory you gave me. Lx [07:11] :x [07:15] nope leave it be [07:16] Hmmm... [07:18] Welp. I really have no idea what I should do. :x [07:18] check in with the wine channel [07:18] Already have. [07:18] and? [07:18] Still not answer yet, though. :x [07:18] !patience [07:18] Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/ [07:18] :) [07:18] * Analog nods. [07:19] replace those urls with the wine ones XD [07:19] ICK. [07:19] how to build using cmake? [07:19] This resolution messed up my telnet client, too. :x Poor MUSHclient. :( [07:19] telnet [07:19] wtf [07:19] you gopher too? [07:20] :P [07:20] I play MUDs. :P [07:20] i gathered that, i was just being silly [07:20] Oh. :( [07:57] * cerebrate pAt *pat* [08:07] hhmm [08:28] Hmm. [08:28] My max screen resolution is 4096x4096... [08:28] Man, that oughta be fun... === IboS_ is now known as IboS [10:47] How to manually (what files?)remove extra languages from Lubuntu 12.04? [11:47] Okay, so my screen resolution is being weird... May I have some ideas on how to fix this? After everything I've done, I'm quite clueless as to where to turn. [12:26] Problem: Pcmanfm won't show .avi files from my video camera. How to change default filer to rox-filer ?? [12:27] join #lxde [12:27] Analog: I've just read the scroll back re: your problem, let me do a bit of further digging [12:30] Analog: as you seem to not had a response from wine on irc, may I suggest that you have a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=313 and if the question is not addressed in their 'How To / FAQ' section that you ask on there. They are much more used to wine than us guys :) (Do mention that you are using lubuntu by using the 'tag' so that it states lubuntu). [12:32] okaay, maybe I should attack this from another angle: [12:32] How to I change the default applications? [12:33] ie when I plugin an SDCARD i want rox-filer to open. Not pcmanfm. [12:41] pcmanfm has a grip on my pc like a virus. A virus i want to remove. [12:42] for some reason pcmanfm won't show files. But i can see them in terminal. [12:43] looks like pcmanfm is coded into the system. [12:50] I found something in panel settings > advanced > File manager. [12:50]