[11:31] <salepetronije> I have a system upgrade from 12.04, through 12.10, to 13.04. On xubuntu xfce session notifications not working, displays notifications from the ubuntu session. I have multiple sessions. Is this a bug, conflict, or a custom setting on xubuntu 13.04?
[12:16] <abderraouf> hi all
[12:18] <abderraouf> how i canchange xfce4-xkb-plugin label? for example: fr to en, and ara to ar
[12:45] <abderraouf_> how i canchange xfce4-xkb-plugin label? for example: fr to en, and ara to ar
[16:49] <knome> what's our opinion on synaptic?
[16:49] <knome> since it seems to be supported, i have personally no problems putting it back
[16:50] <knome> otoh, i don't see we *need* to do that either.
[16:51] <Unit193> I'd be more in favor of that than USC, but that's just me.  I think having something that half supports offline package installation would be a very good thing.  If we do use something else, may want to change !offline
[16:52] <Unit193> But, it is me after all.
[16:52] <knome> i don't think we're talking about a replacement.
[16:52] <knome> unless we change the xubuntu mission statement
[16:53] <knome> which we most probably aren't going to do
[16:53] <Len-nb> synaptic allows seeing deps and at least tells you the list of other packages it will install
[16:53] <Len-nb> USC doesn't seem to do that
[16:54] <Len-nb> I don't know how much that matters to the average user though.
[16:54] <knome> probably not too much
[16:59] <Unit193> Synaptic seems to be a little bit of a middle ground, I would have thought it would fall under the "if you want it, install it" but I've seen several in #xubuntu that seem to think it's gone...
[17:01] <Len-nb> Personally it is one of my "install first" apps.
[17:02] <knome> i used to use it much more, but apt-get has replaced synaptic for me in most of the cases
[17:03] <Unit193> Indeed, I have it installed, but almost never use it.
[17:04] <knome> that's one of the reasons i'm not too eager to reseed it
[17:04] <knome> if we're not really using it, why would others?
[17:09] <Unit193> It's a middle ground.
[17:11] <Len-nb> My use case is different than average. I often do not know the name of the app I am looking for. most users would use USC for that, but because I am looking to see if I want to seed it, I want to know all the crap it drags in. leave it out probably makes sense.
[17:13] <Unit193> Len-nb: If I don't know the name, I search as well...  apt-cache search audio editor  (with grep too.)
[17:14]  * Len-nb likes gui sometimes...
[19:09] <knome> micahg, mr_pouit: can you look at getting this medium/major bugfix to R? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9730
[19:18] <knome> Noskcaj, hey! you seem to have the double-join problem...
[19:18] <knome> 21:16 » Noskcaj [~jackson@CPE-121-217-101-43.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #xubuntu-devel
[19:18] <knome> 21:16 » Noskcaj [~jackson@CPE-121-217-101-43.lnse2.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host]
[19:18] <knome> 21:16 » Noskcaj [~jackson@unaffiliated/noskcaj] has joined #xubuntu-devel
[19:18] <knome> Noskcaj, set your nickserv password as the "server password", and you should be fine
[19:18] <Noskcaj> knome, ok. 
[19:19] <knome> less joinflood to the channels too :)
[19:19] <knome> (thanks!)
[19:20] <skellat> knome: Unit193 pinged me elsewhere about having an offline installation tool and I noted that apt-offline and apt-offline-gui are under active development while having the added bonus over Synaptic that they also update repos besides allowing for package downloads
[19:21] <knome> skellat, we haven't got too much questions about offline installation, so i'm not sure how useful those would be for our users
[19:22] <skellat> I'm probably one of the few who needs to use it but that's due to Time Warner Cable having craptastic infrastructure locally.  Both are relatively small things to sneak in.
[19:22] <knome> sure.
[19:22] <Unit193> knome: Recently there was another, but I'm not a main pusher behind this.
[19:23] <Unit193> !offline | is all but useless.
[19:23] <knome> how's aptoncd?
[19:23] <Unit193> Large.
[19:24] <knome> hmm.
[19:24] <skellat> apt-offline and apt-offline-gui are safer and more recently maintained.  APTonCD is great for copying already downloaded package pools between machines.
[19:24] <knome> i think it might make sense to seen apt-offline and *-gui if we had some documentation for those
[19:24] <knome> if we don't they can prove to be as useless as nothing
[19:25] <knome> fortunately writing docs isn't impossible
[19:25] <skellat> What sort of documents are needed in this case?
[19:25] <knome> i'd imagine a subpage on the offline documentation would be a viable option
[19:26] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGet/Offline is pretty sparse.
[19:26] <knome> yeah.
[19:27] <knome> and "apt-offline" points to http://offline.debian.net/ which gives me a 404.
[19:27] <skellat> Should be: http://apt-offline.alioth.debian.org/
[19:28] <knome> fixed.
[19:31] <skellat> Between the two, Synaptic doesn't have a way to update repos from an offline state.  apt-offline does.
[19:31] <skellat> I need to document this somewhere.
[19:37] <knome> though i don't there is a fair comparison between apt-offline/synaptic
[19:37] <knome> essentially they are tools for different tasks
[20:08] <abderraouf> how i can change xfce4-xkb-plugin label? for example: fr to en, and ara to ar
[20:36] <shiki-> question guys: what's this offline discussion about?
[20:36] <shiki-> *is
[20:37] <shiki-> guess I'm too late for the party
[20:40] <pleia2> shiki-: a tool that allows you to install packages without being online (you download them when you are online prior to installing)
[20:40] <pleia2> came up because people want an alternative to the ubuntu software center, and the tools suggested have the benefit of also supporting offline sutff
[20:40] <pleia2> stuff
[20:43] <shiki-> oh
[20:46] <knome> skellat, per our strategy document, i'll approve you to the team once you've contributed to docs
[20:47] <knome> pleia2, hullo
[20:48] <pleia2> hi knome <3
[20:48] <knome> pleia2, you have time/motivation to work on [thing]?
[20:48] <knome> pleia2 <3
[20:49] <pleia2> maybe tomorrow or tonight, right now getting ready to go out for some st paddy's day fun (beer!)
[20:49] <knome> heh, ok :)
[20:49] <knome> what is "tonight" ?
[20:49] <pleia2> oh, it's almost 2pm now
[20:49] <pleia2> so 6 hours or so from now prolly
[20:49] <knome> ugh. that doesn't work :D
[20:49] <pleia2> yeah
[20:50] <pleia2> I'm around for a few minutes now
[20:50] <knome> did you have a quick update re: case badges ?
[20:50] <knome> + where do we want to work on the flyer text?
[20:51] <knome> i'm not sure if i should switch to scribus at this point.
[20:51] <knome> that would allow much much easier text flowing
[20:51] <knome> and consistent styles
[20:58]  * knome sighs at ubuntu doc team irc presence
[20:59] <pleia2> oh yes, case badges, can you send me a .svg of the image (or tell me the filename if you did and I lost it)
[20:59] <pleia2> I am sure it's around somewhere...
[20:59] <pleia2> and what font did we use? ubuntu?
[20:59] <knome> what's their response?
[20:59] <knome> yeah, it's the ubuntu font. i can convert to paths
[20:59] <pleia2> I'm going to work with them to try and re-create it all vectorized, they wanted an illustrator vector image :(
[20:59] <knome> (i can't remember if i did or not)
[20:59] <knome> lawl
[20:59] <knome> well
[20:59] <knome> let's say so:
[21:00] <knome> i can do it...
[21:00] <knome> but that's not viable for our uesrs
[21:00] <knome> *users
[21:00] <knome> s/do it/get it done/
[21:00] <pleia2> yeah, we can provide both formats to users I think though?
[21:01] <knome> not sure.
[21:01] <knome> probably depends on what "traces" illustrator leaves in the file
[21:01] <pleia2> ah
[21:01] <knome> the other option is to switch vendor.
[21:01]  * pleia2 nods
[21:02] <pleia2> not that I know of any who work with svg :\
[21:02] <knome> would they accept pdf?
[21:02] <pleia2> they want vector, non-vector is what caused pixel problems
[21:02] <pleia2> pdf is non-vector
[21:02] <knome> no
[21:02] <pleia2> oh
[21:02] <knome> well,
[21:03] <knome> at least text is non-vector..
[21:03] <knome> err
[21:03] <knome> vector
[21:03] <knome> not sure about pure graphics
[21:03] <knome> but the point is, they failed with the font
[21:03] <knome> not the outline
[21:03] <knome> iirc
[21:03] <knome> i'd need to check that, but i don't know where my badges are
[21:04] <knome> oh,
[21:04] <knome> i'm remembering it all wrong
[21:04] <knome> heh
[21:04] <pleia2> it was all pixelated :)
[21:04] <knome> yeah.
[21:04] <knome> there *was* no outline... :)
[21:04] <pleia2> they have no problem doing the font though, I'll send them the link to the ubuntu font
[21:04] <knome> that doesn't fix it though
[21:05] <pleia2> well, it doesn't fix the image :)
[21:05] <knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format#Vector_graphics
[21:05] <knome> that's what i was thinking about
[21:05] <pleia2> ah
[21:05] <pleia2> that might work
[21:05] <knome> because i can't be that lousy in my job
[21:05] <pleia2> :)
[21:06] <knome> the problem is that if their first reply is "give us an illustrator file" they might not be the nicest people to work with debugging possible problems with pdf
[21:06] <pleia2> I think we can send an .svg over too ;) if they want to fiddle with inkscape (which is cross platform!)
[21:06] <pleia2> they've been responsive, it was a phone call that got me this info
[21:06] <pleia2> and seemed wiling to work when I said we didn't use illustrator
[21:06] <knome> the problem most probably isn't that they didn't know inkscape or svg
[21:06] <pleia2> aaannd they'll do a mock-up, so i don't need to spend $100 and learn they aren't so great again
[21:08] <knome> their printer probably just doesn't support the svg-workflow
[21:08] <pleia2> yeah
[21:08] <knome> (and i imagine it doesn't)
[21:08] <pleia2> they were willing to fiddle with files to probably make an illustrator file to feed their machine
[21:08] <knome> mhm.
[21:09] <knome> can you link me to their website or sth if the had some technical specs (PM works if you don't want in channel)
[21:09] <knome> the weird thing is that printers usually support pdf, as long as it's correctly exported
[21:10] <knome> or they support it even if it isn't but then they don't guarantee expected results
[21:10] <pleia2> namethatcomputer.com
[21:10] <knome> (and as i've said before, they usually want "fonts as paths", eg. no attached fonts)
[21:11] <pleia2> it's all really done by email and phone, not so much clicky on website for things
[21:11] <shiki-> (back to the offline thing: Back in the days (years ago) I had to download tons of dependencies and stuff just to get a basic package working. So the idea sure is great, but nowadays even my microwave comes with 3G ... so I'm not sure if it's worth the effort, if it requires extra work.)
[21:11] <knome> pleia2, yeah, i hate companies who won't tell their tech specs in advance
[21:11] <knome> pleia2, i skip those when working commercially if i can
[21:12] <pleia2> heh
[21:12] <pleia2> well they've been very helpful, and aside from pixel issue the stickers are really great
[21:12] <pleia2> they stay stuck, don't peel or fade
[21:12] <knome> shiki-, internet connectivity isn't always that great
[21:12] <knome> shiki-, even if your device had 3G :)
[21:12] <shiki-> well I always gone Windows every time I had to work with such limited connectivity places.... :/ It was just... more simple and easier.
[21:13] <knome> shiki-, this isn't about hardware support :)
[21:13] <shiki-> yeah I know. Place A got connection, and you want to install B where there is no connection.
[21:13] <shiki-> You can grab all the deps and the main package on A and get them to B ...and install them. (I guess?)
[21:14] <knome> shiki-, yes, that's what you need a tool for
[21:15] <knome> you can do it manually but that's not what average users will do
[21:15] <knome> unless they really need to, and then it's usually getting some network thing working, and they only need to repeat it for a small amount of packages
[21:18] <knome> pleia2, what was our badge size again?
[21:19] <pleia2> ah look at that, i do have the svg
[21:19] <knome> lol, yeah
[21:19] <pleia2> I don't know exact, I could measure one ;)
[21:19] <knome> i might have an idea why they suck.
[21:20] <knome> the "default" size for the svg is 60x71
[21:20] <knome> which is *small*
[21:20] <pleia2> they ended up using a png version of it
[21:20] <knome> aha...
[21:20] <pleia2> which was huuge
[21:20] <knome> ok
[21:20] <pleia2> so they shrunk it, and..chaos
[21:20] <knome> hah
[21:20] <pleia2> it went "here are the svgs" "do you have a jpg?" "jpg sucks, here's a png"
[21:20] <knome> seriously, they should've done a test :/
[21:21] <pleia2> yeah, they will this time
[21:21] <knome> jpg might've worked better though...
[21:21] <pleia2> yeah, perhaps
[21:21] <knome> http://www.computercasebadges.com/customised_badges.html
[21:22] <knome> 17×20 would be 0,91$ per badge if you order 50
[21:23] <pleia2> after all the pain we went through getting good ubuntu badges several years ago (first ones rubbed off, next ones had a coating that didn't rub off, but would peel off) I'm not thrilled about the idea of starting from scratch
[21:24] <pleia2> we know these stickers are good, just need to work on the design :)
[21:24] <knome> err
[21:24] <knome> ;)
[21:24] <knome> not the design...
[21:24] <pleia2> well right, the execution of the design
[21:24] <knome> hehe
[21:26] <knome> careful there.
[21:28] <Unit193> Site seems to be lacking.
[21:28] <knome> yeah
[21:28] <skellat> knome: Understood about the Docs bit.  Merge proposal made and pending.  Reviewer requested was pleia2.
[21:29] <pleia2> skellat: saw and thank you, I'll try to get to it this weekend (quick glance looks good, I need to learn more about docs)
[21:29] <knome> skellat, we should get the raring branch up asap (i've asked about it a few times, that's the reason for my frustration for ubuntu doc team presence)
[21:30] <knome> skellat, but once that's done, i can review too
[21:30] <knome> pleia2, just tell me what you need to learn and i can try to teach.
[21:30] <pleia2> heh, jbicha has a massive From: pleia2 email in his inbox
[21:31] <skellat> knome: That's why, if this works like my PPA does, the bump I did to the debian control file in the merge *may* take care of it
[21:31] <knome> pleia2, want to add that raring branch thingy to it? :P
[21:31] <knome> skellat, aha.. :)
[21:31] <pleia2> knome: my email was a larger "at the CC meeting you said desktop docs were critically endangered, teach me all the things, incl flavors details, so we can find people to care for things"
[21:32] <knome> pleia2, :)
[21:32] <pleia2> so my hope is that by getting an overview of all this, I'll also start understanding how *we* do our things too ;)
[21:33] <knome> i'm on top on how we're doing thing *right now*
[21:33] <pleia2> and hopefully get one of us added to ubuntu-doc so we can push this stuff along, waiting for jbicha to approve a branch is not scalable :)
[21:33] <knome> the ubuntu doc team proposed some changes...
[21:33] <knome> that might take a while
[21:33] <pleia2> indeed
[21:33] <pleia2> but I have to start somewhere :)
[21:34] <pleia2> I've been trying for years
[21:35] <knome> lol
[21:35] <knome> yeah
[21:36] <skellat> Ubuntu & Flavors: It Isn't A One Man Band
[21:37] <pleia2> ok, time for me to go out now
[21:37] <skellat> pleia2: Have fun
[21:38] <knome> pleia2, see you :)
[21:38] <skellat> knome: I gotta get back to the kitchen to tend to my baking for dinner.  I tacked you on as an additional reviewer to the merge proposal.
[21:38]  * skellat disappears to undertake culinary actions
[21:38] <knome> skellat, thanks, i'll look at it asp
[21:38] <knome> *asap
[21:38] <knome> skellat, bon appetit :)
[21:47] <Unit193> knome: We're going for en_GB with the docs?
[21:49] <knome> Unit193, hmm?
[21:50] <Unit193> As far as spelling, there's always the American way, and the $everyone_else way. :P
[21:50]  * knome lol's at pstoedit's ai conversion of the badge
[21:51] <knome> Unit193, if the standard for the source (lang) is en_US, we should do that then.
[21:53] <Unit193> Hrm, should I bother chaning a couple from GB to US?  I could also s/leafpad/mousepad/
[21:53] <knome> Unit193, sure.
[22:19] <knome> pleia2, i believe this is the best .ai export i can get with purely open source software, and i already feel the same as i was cheating death: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_casebadge/freesoftware_aiexp.png
[22:21] <knome> pleia2, i'll need to check with a colleague how that looks in actual illustrator, and if it appears in vector anyway
[22:38] <Unit193> knome: If you don't mind taking a look?  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/17  Also had the patch http://pastebin.com/Jhsu1NLT but reverted first as this is a language clean-up.
[22:39] <knome> awgh, LP diff fail
[22:40] <Unit193> Some of the modifications may change depending on where you're from, I also consulted aspell. :P
[22:40] <knome> lol, i see i've been working on the docs
[22:41] <knome> lots of missing c-letters
[22:41] <knome> i should really switch to the new kb waiting in the closet, shouldn't i?
[22:41] <Unit193> And hange your password often!
[22:41] <knome> yes.
[22:44] <knome> the diff looks fine
[22:44] <knome> i'll try to get the raring branch issue sorted first, then see what we need to do with this
[22:44] <Unit193> `cat /etc/resolv.conf` doesn't help you on a default install, don't know what config file does.  There is a dnsmasq config file, but it's empty for me.
[22:44] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/xubuntu-docs that's a little different, I'm sure.
[22:45] <knome> i think that's just the ubuntu package
[22:45] <knome> we'd like to work on the "upstream" project though.
[22:45] <knome> i think.
[22:45] <Unit193> Yep.
[22:46] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs Something that'd be listed here.
[22:46] <knome> heh, hmm, that isn't current either
[22:46] <knome> i was thinking https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/
[22:47] <knome> actually no, they are similar
[22:47] <knome> your link just doesn't show the series'
[22:50] <knome> installing ubuntu natty
[22:50] <Unit193> Actually, my second diff should also say "If there is no DNS entries listed..." rather than "nameserver" (which should be nameservers)
[22:50] <knome> don't ask why.
[22:50] <Unit193> I sure won't...
[22:51] <Unit193> Went EOL already.
[22:51] <knome> yeah
[22:53] <knome> re: dns stuff, i don't know
[22:53] <knome> if that doesn't seem to be appropriate or useful, we should remove that section
[22:54] <knome> hmm, i selected i don't want to install updates when installing, because the installer told me i have no network
[22:54] <knome> it's downloading language packs though
[22:54] <knome> awesome
[22:55] <knome> will it download the jonoface-app for unity as well?
[23:01] <Unit193> nm-tool lists DNS.
[23:02] <knome> yeah
[23:20] <knome> updates on natty done
[23:20] <knome> ;)
[23:21] <mr_pouit> knome: done, although this is major only because apport pops up unnecessarily (we don't care when xfce4-appfinder crashes on logout, no data is lost)
[23:21] <knome> mr_pouit, right, thanks anyway
[23:21] <knome> :)
[23:22] <mr_pouit> I also fixed xubuntu-default-settings with s/leafpad/mousepad/ in some files :P
[23:22] <knome> niiiiice
[23:23] <mr_pouit> super+e (default shortcut) was still launching leafpad (not installed)
[23:23] <mr_pouit> maybe it's worth adding a test case, or similar?
[23:24] <knome> meh
[23:24] <knome> that's a lot of work
[23:24] <knome> if it works for people before b2, it's fine.
[23:25] <mr_pouit> ochosi: updated xubuntu-artwork with your latest bugfixes, thanks.
[23:26] <knome> mr_pouit, i'll send you a wallpaper before UIF
[23:26] <knome> mr_pouit, can you fix the filenames this time?
[23:27] <Unit193> (updated: http://pastebin.com/zXRJ4Bk3 )
[23:27] <mr_pouit> I could fix it, we'll see :P (that'll require another upload of xubuntu-default-settings)
[23:27] <mr_pouit> knome: ^
[23:28] <knome> mr_pouit, yup, you could ;)