/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/19/#juju-gui.txt

gary_posterregression/stop the line: bug 115713811:32
_mup_Bug #1157138: deploying a new service does not update service name in environment view <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157138 >11:32
gary_posterjujugui ^^11:33
* benji attempts to duplicate11:34
BradCrittendenbenji, gary_poster: are y'all working on the regression?  can i help?12:01
=== BradCrittenden is now known as bac
benjiI'm looking at it independently at the moment.12:01
benjiI have a hypothesis that the updateGhostServiceName function which is wired up to a "blur" event (seems odd) isn't being called.12:02
benjihypothesis denied!  It is being cvalled, it's just not effective for some reason12:03
teknicobac, hi, has your juju-gui remove_relation branch landed?12:06
bacteknico: yes, i believe so12:07
bacthat was my intent12:07
teknicobac, I don't see the code in trunk though12:07
bacteknico: me neither.  submitting again.12:08
gary_posterbenji thank you for looking at it12:13
gary_posterbenji did you try reverting to see what revision introduced it?12:13
benjigary_poster: yep, trying that now12:13
gary_postercool benji12:13
bacteknico: submitting now.  not sure what happened yesterday12:21
teknicobac, great, thanks12:22
teknicobac, while I'm pestering you, :-) are you also landing the destroy-relation juju-core branch?12:26
bacteknico: i am trying desparately.  i'm in the review grinder.12:26
bacteknico: soon, i hope12:26
teknicobac, thanks (the interest comes from two branches of mine tailing your ones, and both are likely to conflict)12:28
bacteknico: understood12:28
bacteknico: my juju-gui branch is in trunk now12:30
gary_posterbenji, any luck on determining version with the problem?  do you want to pair?12:44
benjiit works in r387, does not work in r43112:45
gary_posterbenji, heh12:45
benjire. pairing: sure; I hear the coffee machine finishing, let me grab a cup and we can hang out12:45
gary_posterok cool12:45
gary_poster400 is ok...12:49
gary_poster420 is ok12:50
benjigary_poster: regular hangout?12:50
gary_postersure12:50
gary_poster415 not 420, sorry12:52
ahasenackgary_poster: around?13:31
gary_posterahasenack, yes.  btw, I think we are going to produce mockups with your suggested approach and see which one people prefer13:31
gary_posters/prefer/understand better/13:31
ahasenackok :)13:32
ahasenackgary_poster: the same happens when viewing a unit, btw, it say "unit LANDSCAPE"13:32
gary_posterahasenack, yes, as designed13:32
gary_posterahasenack, and that's what we would invert13:32
ahasenackgary_poster: but anyway, here is something else. I'm visualizing a unit (screenshot: https://inst-005.virtual-maas.com/charms/charms//json)13:32
ahasenackgary_poster: see that link to the charm? local:....?13:32
gary_posterahasenack, cannot access that screenshot :-/13:32
ahasenackgary_poster: oh, sorry, I inverted things13:33
ahasenackgary_poster: http://i.imagebanana.com/img/gco9lr5r/Selection_002.png screenshot13:33
ahasenackgary_poster: see that link to the charm? local:....?13:33
gary_posterahasenack, yes13:33
ahasenackgary_poster: that link points to https://inst-005.virtual-maas.com/charms/charms//json, which doesn't load, looks like something is wrong with it13:33
ahasenackmaybe because of the local:?13:33
gary_posterahasenack, maybe.  That charm page has been lame for some time.  Not Landscape specific.  Thank you for finding it.  Are you willing to file a bug or shall I?13:34
ahasenacksure, I can file one13:34
ahasenackgary_poster: and I have another question too13:34
ahasenacklet me prep another screenshot13:35
gary_posterahasenack, fwiw, that's not specific to local charms: http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/unit/memcached-0/13:35
ahasenackgary_poster: ok13:35
ahasenackgary_poster: so I clicked on "view all notifications"13:36
ahasenackgary_poster: partial screen: http://i.imagebanana.com/img/u2t2fp6g/Selection_004.png13:36
ahasenackgary_poster: why does it say "Problem with"? It looks ok13:36
gary_posterlol ahasenack because we never look at this unless there are problems.  another bug!  thanks again13:36
ahasenackI note there are two places in "juju status" where agent-state is mentioned: one in the list of machines (where "running" is good)13:36
ahasenackand another in the list of services (where "started" is good)13:37
ahasenackok, I'll file it :)13:37
frankbanMakyo: our second branch (SetAnnotations) works, please ping me when you are available for an hangout13:42
bacexciting discovery: lbox submit and propose send off draft comments you've entered into rietveld, avoiding the race of trying to do send them manually.13:48
=== teknico__ is now known as teknico
hatchhas anyone taken the stopline bug yet?14:05
bacteknico: my destroy-relation bug is now being submitted to juju-core14:06
bachatch: benji and gary_poster are looking at it14:06
hatchahh ok sounds good14:06
teknicobac, great, thanks14:07
gary_posterhatch, thanks.  we have a fix.  getting tests to pass14:07
hatchif bzr has a bisect it 'should' be easy to find :)14:07
hatchoh :)14:07
hatchexcellent14:07
hatchjcsackett: are you here today?14:17
gary_posterjujugui call  in 114:29
gary_posterreview needed of https://codereview.appspot.com/7885045 <<< benji plus one more14:29
gary_posterplease :-)14:29
gary_posterbcsaller_, starting without you14:31
rick_h_gary_poster: will miss today14:31
gary_posterack rick_h_ 14:31
rogpeppegary_poster: you might want to try this branch - it actually hooks up the StateWatcher.14:39
rogpeppehttps://codereview.appspot.com/766304814:39
gary_posterwow14:39
rick_h_hatch: when your call is done wonder if you can peek at something for me please14:41
hatchdefinitely - I also wanted to have a quick chat with you about your paths14:41
hatchfor the charmstore stuff14:41
rick_h_hatch: rgr, I actually want to have a bigger overall chat this afternoon once I'm done here at the dealer on things like a global regestry/etc14:42
hatchahh - what you doing at the dealer? busted car?14:42
rick_h_regular 30 day service for the new thing. but yea...did bust a part/light after running a ditch due to some ice the other day as well. 14:43
rick_h_nothing bad, but ugh14:43
gary_posterhttps://codereview.appspot.com/788504514:49
hatchI can do it14:50
hatchbcsaller_: so is there anything I can help with with the deploy test bug?14:51
Makyofrankban, Oops, want to head back to hangout, or see-emily-code?14:51
bcsaller_hatch: https://saucelabs.com/jobs/cf322461890c4645af4f3f05072a60b8 around 30 sec into the video it shows the issue14:51
frankbanMakyo: emily in 9?14:51
Makyofrankban, Sure.14:52
hatchok loading14:52
bcsaller_hatch: if you have any ideas I'm open, I was trying to figure out if the unit tests time out it could leave things in a state where it then needed the login on the next screen. I might try a run w/o the unit-tests on just to see if its any different.14:52
hatchso it's not entering the proper creds?14:53
hatchand why does this FF look so funny? It's like it's running in Windows 95 :D14:54
jcsacketthatch: i am around, i'm about to be on a call. talk after that?14:55
bcsaller_hatch: it shouldn't ask at all14:58
hatchjcsackett: ok np, I was just going to say that I needed to add scrollview-base-ie to make your carousel stuff pass it's tests in IE - so I Just wanted to update you on that change14:59
jcsacketthatch: ok. i'm working with TabView now; i'll check if we need similar things for that.15:00
hatchbcsaller_: so viewing the chrome tests I see it doesn't ask in Chrome, only in FF?15:01
bcsaller_hatch: that appears to be the case, there is now a different issue in Chrome showing up in the same test (which appears very similar to what we were seeing in IE (which I find oddly encouraging))15:02
hatchoh jeeze - if you run on EC2 do they all pass?15:03
hatchjust wondering if it's maybe a canonistack issue15:04
hatchnot sure how it would be....15:04
hatchbut who knows15:05
hatchrick_h_ so what did you need me to look at?15:05
rick_h_hatch: nvm, got it. new Y.Node !== Y.Node.create :(15:05
rick_h_out yesterday is giving me a case of the mondays15:05
hatchohh :)15:06
bcsaller_hatch: haven't tried EC2 in a while15:07
hatchrick_h_ will the charmstore stuff be under /bws as well?15:09
hatchor is that just for these custom views?15:10
rick_h_hatch: ok, so for the moment it's there to 'feature flag' the work in progress. 15:10
hatchoh ok so at some point the bws will go15:10
hatch?15:10
rick_h_hatch: I think at some point closer to release we'll chat on making sure urls are generated correctly and drop them15:10
hatchgotcha15:11
rick_h_hatch: rgr, from the looks of things it should be a simple one-day'er to drop/update those15:11
hatchok I'm working on the routing bug from the sprint and making up url stories15:11
rick_h_and for now we want them hidden so keeping it around15:11
rick_h_ah, well to help QA things we want them to work under bws/ I think15:11
rick_h_but we can work on something else if that causes you more work/bugs on your end15:12
hatchnope that's fine it's just a path15:12
hatchbut in making the stories it didn't make sense to keep them15:12
hatchso I'm glad to see they will probably be going :)15:13
rick_h_yea, add the "hide in progress work from people using the charm for production" story :)15:13
hatchlol15:13
frankbangary_poster: do you have a minute for a quick hangout?15:15
gary_postersure frankban 15:17
frankbangary_poster: thanks, I am juju gui hangout15:18
frankban*I am in the15:18
gary_posterbcsaller_, hatch, whoa!  "Jenkins is back to normal" in some better universe where passing tests is normal!  yay! :-)15:37
bcsaller_gary_poster: umm...15:39
hatchlol - well the unit tests all pass15:39
bcsaller_I can't make sense of this new world but I feel like I should enter some kind of lottery very soon15:41
hatchhey Chromebooks will FINALLY be available in Canada15:41
hatchbcsaller_: lol dooo it!15:41
hatchbcsaller_: did we decide that /notifications/ should be under :gui: ?15:45
bcsaller_hatch: I don't recall that, there are two views through, the persistent one on every page and the view all one. View All won't have other namespaces active if the design stays the same and the persistent view will call next() anyway15:46
hatchalright and we decided that show_environment will be on *15:47
hatchright?15:47
bcsaller_hatch: there is some drift between the designs of today and tomorrow. If by * you just mean an open match at the end we can make a case for that, but its not present on pages like /service/x and /charm/x now15:49
hatchhmm I updated chrome and now I get no console logs...15:53
frankbanhi rogpeppe: if you have time, could you please review https://codereview.appspot.com/7598043/ ?16:14
rogpeppefrankban: looking16:14
frankbanrogpeppe: thanks16:15
hatchbcsaller_: do you know where the event listener for the juju logo is?16:39
bcsaller_hatch: think its just an <a/>16:40
hatchoh woops so it is16:40
=== teknico_ is now known as teknico
hatch:)16:40
hatchlooks like it's still being captured by the app16:41
hatchanyways...the issue with it is that it's supposed to drop back to 'root' but what IS root supposed to be :)16:42
hatchI would say the environment16:43
hatchbut if you're on juju:8888/:gui:/service/memcached/ and click that button it stays there16:45
hatchbecause it's not editing the namespaced paths16:45
bcsaller_hatch: the navigate event handler would catch all the <a/>'s16:47
hatchyeah - I'm just talking16:48
hatch:)16:48
hatchI think I'll create a route on / to show the environment view16:48
hatchbcsaller_: I know you need a break from your CI stuff ;) Can you take a look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~hatch/juju-gui/ns-routing/revision/436 and let me know what you think of my approach17:12
bcsaller_hatch: a welcome chance to do something else 17:13
hatchfeel free to tell me it's wrong ;) but then you better have a better way :P17:14
gary_posterbcsaller_, figure out some way to wrap up what you have done and we'll do some kind of handoff to someone tomorrow17:14
gary_postersomeone may be me :-P we'll see17:14
gary_posterbcsaller_, if "wrap up" means "we pair for a little bit and you show me what you've learned" so be it17:15
bcsaller_gary_poster: I'll do one more round of tests and then we can talk if you have time17:16
gary_posterbcsaller_, ok.  Would prefer to wait till tomorrow when hopefully I will be more rested.  Happy to let you have a break though.  If you have a small slack task in mind (including reading up on some at-least-slightly relevant technology :-) ), fine, or we can talk through something.17:18
bcsaller_gary_poster: tomorrow is fine17:18
gary_postercool thanks17:18
=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
hatchbcsaller_: so what do you think?17:28
bcsaller_hatch: we have code like that in check_credentials, so its already ok, I'd refactor to use the one call in both places for now17:30
bcsaller_hatch: and I'd prefer using the url() method of router to build the url in service17:31
hatchoh right - I agree17:32
hatchand I'll look into the check credentials fn17:32
hatchthanks17:33
rick_h_hatch: got time for that chat now?17:45
hatchyup, see u in guichat?17:50
rick_h_hatch: yep17:51
rogpeppefrankban: you have a review18:10
frankbanthanks rogpeppe!18:10
rogpeppefrankban: np. i'll be really glad to see that branch land!18:11
rogpeppefrankban: i'm off now18:11
rogpeppefrankban: g'night18:11
gary_posternight rogpeppe 18:11
frankbanrogpeppe: good night18:12
hatchrick_h_: camelCase..... :P18:21
* hatch ducks18:21
rick_h_droidyea I will. 18:21
rick_h_droidthat's cleanup work18:21
hatchhmm and I can't see anything in your code that stands out as 'will break other code'18:23
rick_h_yea, wtf...oh well keep poking it with a stick18:26
hatchok I'm going to take lunch, when I get back I'll revert my env back to 0.8.x and then run those tests again18:27
rick_h_hatch: ok, in looking the exception is through the scrollview-paginator-debug. So I think maybe what's going on is I'm not cleaning up after myself in my tests that use a slider widget on it18:40
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
rick_h_hatch: found it! thanks for taking a look that I wasn't insane.19:07
hatchhaha what was it?19:09
rick_h_hatch: so the slider doesn't like not having any items in its list19:13
hatchohh, no it doesn't19:13
hatch:)19:13
rick_h_so in testing, it would die trying to scroll to with no first index item and cause issues19:13
hatchwoops19:13
rick_h_since I gave it no data to test with 19:14
rick_h_yea...will have to chat with jcsackett about seeing what we can do to make it 0-item safe19:14
rick_h_pita for testing to know that you need to popular a widget buried in a view 19:14
rick_h_popular/populate19:14
hatchbcsaller_: the url method on _Router is only available in the parent app.js does the service view have a reference somewhere to that app?19:32
bcsaller_hatch: no, we push deps down from the app, we don't just bind the top level object19:33
BradCrittendenhi gary_poster, have a moment to talk about get_endpoints?20:04
=== BradCrittenden is now known as bac
gary_postersure bac20:04
bacguichat?20:05
gary_posterbac, yes it is free20:05
hatchgary_poster: can I delete some tasks which no longer apply on the kanban?20:17
gary_posterhatch, yes.  If they are linked to bugs please mark them is won't fix or invalid or fix released as appropriate20:18
hatchsounds good20:18
gary_poster*as20:18
hatchrick_h_ do you want this ticket assigned to you or is it no longer required? https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/113079120:20
_mup_Bug #1130791: Add open/close api to Y.SubApp <juju-gui:Triaged by hatch> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130791 >20:20
rick_h_droidhatch: I think no longer required 20:21
hatchalright - I remember we chatted about it, but I wasn't sure if the api would still be required in general or not20:21
* bac -> dog walk, ship spotting20:49
* Makyo dogwalkinate.20:54
hatchbcsaller_: in /service/:id you can click on the units, what handles that event? I can't seem to find it21:02
hatchugh21:02
hatchI just did21:02
hatch*facepalm*21:02
hatchI Just ran into this issue with my namespace work https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/115719921:15
_mup_Bug #1157199: Invalid charm link when viewing a unit <juju-gui:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157199 >21:15
hatchso I need to fix it first21:15
hatchcan someone who is running node 0.8.22 tell me which version of npm they are using?21:27
hatchjujugui^21:28
hatchnode --version; npm --version21:28
bcsaller_hatch: v0.8.2221:30
bcsaller_1.2.1421:30
hatchthanks21:30
hatchI just had some package issues when reverting so I wanted to make sure I picked versions that were working for others21:31
hatchI am really starting to like tmux21:32
hatchit's just so easy21:32
hatchwrt bug #1157199 where is that link 'supposed' to go to?21:36
_mup_Bug #1157199: Invalid charm link when viewing a unit <juju-gui:Triaged by hatch> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157199 >21:36
hatchthe code is attempting to pull the json from jujucharms which isn't allowing the CORS request21:37
bcsaller_hatch: isn't it http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/charms/charms/precise/mediawiki-3/json/ being generated improperly?21:40
hatchyes the url is wrong, and I've fixed that - but it requires the CORS request to go through properly but jujucharms.com is rejecting it21:41
bcsaller_at the service level the charm link is generated properly and seems to work21:41
hatchok let me try again21:41
hatchoh doh, I needed to regen the templates21:43
hatchheh21:43
hatchfixed21:47
hatch:)21:47
hatchIf anyone wants some easy code reviewing before they head off for the day https://codereview.appspot.com/7546053/ 8ln diff :)22:02
hazmatjujugui i'm going to modify the staging server to use an environment with a thousand units and increase the refresh cycle on it to 30m22:09
hatchzomg!22:09
bachatch: ok22:09
bachatch: done22:12
hatchthanks sir22:12
hatchhazmat: I've always wondered, is this actually creating these instances or is it just a simulation?22:13
hazmathatch, simulator22:13
hazmathatch, otherwise gui dev would be alot more expensive ;-)22:13
hatchhaha understood22:13
hatchis it even possible to run multiple instances on one machine?22:14
gary_posterhazmat, sounds good22:27
hazmatgary_poster, i'm trying it out right now.. still in progress.. it takes about 10m to create a set that large in the simulator.. 22:28
gary_posterI bet22:28
hazmathatch, yes.. lxc or virtual-maas22:29
hazmathatch, or if you met multiple simulators yes.. that's possible to.22:29
hatchcool - I could see that being helpful for people who want to setup a small blog with caching22:29
hatchor simple webserver etc22:29
hazmatgary_poster, re stage server.. its about 15m for the simulator.. to keep this scale present, it would need to divorce the gui updates from the content reset, continue the former every 15m, the later maybe 6hrs.. 22:35
hazmathmm.. maybe 20m22:36
hazmatugh.. maybe i should just give up the ghost on this..22:36
hatchthat would be pretty cool though22:39
hazmati got it working locally but didn't time the simulator all the way through22:39
hazmatthe gui was fast though22:40
hatchat that level I'd be concerned about memory creep22:42
hatchbut that's for another time :)22:42
hazmataha.. its active..22:43
hazmathttp://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/22:43
hatchlol22:44
hatchyeah don't leave that open too long ;)22:44
hatchit's crashing my tab22:45
hatchbut it loaded the first time22:45
hatchok it doesn't crash if the inspector isn't open22:45
hatchhazmat: is this for a demo?22:46
hazmathatch, no just trying to show the gui is usable at this size22:46
hazmatfor discussion22:46
hatchohh - well it's gone up 10MB since I opened it22:47
hatchlol22:47
hatchwe have some work to do ;)\22:47
hazmatalthough evidence of the opposite is also progress22:47
hatchhmm there is some oddness here22:48
hazmathatch, i only show about 65k of mem usage22:48
hazmatless than my gmail tabs22:48
hatchthe application seems rather stable in the heap shots but the realtime inspector is steadily increasing22:49
hatch65k? it's using ~12.4MB :)22:49
hazmatinteresting for me memory usage is decreased without active focus22:49
hazmatdown to 49k22:49
hazmathatch, which browser are you using?22:49
hatchthat's normal22:49
hatchChrome22:49
hatchyou can't use the system inspector to view the resource usage of tabs22:50
hatchbecause it offloads things to different processes22:50
hatchin the dev tools click the 'Profiles' tab22:51
hatchthen take heap snapshot22:51
hatchthat will give you the memory usage of the page22:52
hatchthen you can do things, and take another heap to see if it goes up22:52
hazmathatch, i'm using the chrome task mangaer22:54
hazmathatch, tools like profiles perturb the observed behavior22:54
hazmathatch, ie they account for a significant memory consumption by themselves22:55
hatchtask manager is showing me 141MB usage for the tab vs 12.4 in the heap snapshot :)22:56
hazmathatch, it would be nice to verify those numbers without any profiling22:58
hazmatwhich can account for significant memory by itself22:59
hatchbcsaller_: looks like my changes to the routing code has also fixed the history navigation issues we were seeing at the sprint22:59
bcsaller_hatch: interesting, be nice to see what you had to change22:59
hatchbcsaller_: I'm proposing it as a WIP soon23:01
hatchhazmat: I've always used the heap snapshots in the past to monitor memory usage over an apps lifetime23:02
hatchand it's served me well23:02
hazmatack23:02
hatchit might not be 100% but it's at least consistent haha23:03
hazmathatch, we're seeing such *wildly* different numbers ... i went to look for causes23:03
hatchwhen you took a heap snapshot did you not get ~12MB?23:05
hazmati do23:06
hatchoh ok perfect then - I think the task manager takes into consideration the whole tab instance on the OS23:06
hatchbut as far as your 65K - I don't know about that, a photo is larger than 65K ;)23:07
hazmathmm.. maybe that's 65k *k23:08
hatchoh maybe23:08
hatchI'm in OSX also23:08
hazmatbut os process manager shows 121mb for the chrome in total23:08
hatchso there might be some difference there23:08
hatchoh ok so mine showed ~140MB so we are pretty close on that23:09
hatchassuming that the task manager and process manager are close23:09
hatchs/close/reporting the same thing23:09
hazmatyeah.. that seems more reasonable23:10
* hazmat tries the staging site on a phone23:10
hatchhehe I was just loading it on an N723:11
hazmathatch, chrome or android browser?23:12
* hazmat is trying safari 623:12
hatchchrome23:12
hatchit loads and displays the UI but it doesn't appear that I can click on anything23:13
hatchyeah the SVG elements aren't triggering any of the events23:13
hatchbut the top navigation is functional23:13
hazmathatch, can you drag elements?23:13
hatchthe bottom navigation isnt' on the screen23:13
hatchnegative - but I can pan the environment23:14
hatchoh wait23:14
hatchtwo finger drag23:14
hatchthe elements23:14
hatchbut twofinger tap doesn't trigger the click23:14
hatchbcsaller_: doesn't look like I'll be getting this branch proposed...the tests are failing and proving to be difficult to solve23:15
bcsaller_hatch: I can still glance at the WIP if you want23:16
bcsaller_just push and give me a link :) up to you23:16
hatchhttps://code.launchpad.net/~hatch/juju-gui/ns-routing23:16
hatchsure - I was going to propose so it would give you a proper diff23:17
hatchunless you can somehow diff trunk easily in LP23:17
hatchhazmat: looks like it needs a little work to get it working on mobile but shouldn't be too much23:21
hatchhow was it on safari?23:21
hazmathatch, not so hot... chrome a little bit better, never got to the rendered graph in either but gave up after 3m23:22
hatchhmm - was that on an ipad?23:22
hatchor iphone?23:22
hazmatiphone523:22
hatchahh - I'll try FF on my old android phone23:22
hatchI don't have high hopes heh23:23
hazmati was demoing the normal staging gui on the phone earlier it worked reasonably well23:23
hazmatrendered, drag, pan and zoom23:23
hatchoh ok - so the proc/ram increase must have put it into limp mode23:24
hatchok FF on Android 2.2 works23:25
hatchI can even get the popups23:25
hatchactually it looks like I can do everything23:25
hatchit appears to be working as a desktop browser23:26
hatchit's even reasonably fast ui rendering23:26
hatchbut it gave me a 'script taking too long' error at first23:26
hazmatk, downsizing to the 100unit env23:38
hazmatand keeping 30m refresh/reset23:39
hatchthat's pretty cool how well it works at that level without any real work done to improve performance23:40
hazmatinteresting.. the heap delta from 1000k to 100 is from 11.8mb to 11.0-10.4mb (both fresh)23:43
hazmatalmost the same 11.8mb on one..23:44
hazmathatch, can you confirm re heap size on current uistage site23:44
hatchsure one second23:44
hatch10.9MB on raw load23:45
hatchso it looks like it's not the ram causing issues but the adding processing of 900 extra units23:46
hatchthat can be remedied however23:47

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