[08:09] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:37] <jacobw> Morning
[09:14] <JamesTait> Happy World Sparrow Day, everyone! :-D
[09:26] <redtape-renegade> JamesTait, I'm trying to get rid of a mob of chaffinches by studying what they can eat. Que my one and only crud link of the day .... :l
[09:26] <redtape-renegade> http://goo.gl/jmTC0
[09:27] <JamesTait> redtape-renegade, a cat would probably get rid of them for you. ;)
[10:34] <ali1234> is there a way to make a shell script bail out at the first error?
[10:34] <ali1234> like put && between every command, except without doing that
[10:36] <SuperMatt> create a bash script which checks exit statuses and exits if they fail?
[10:36] <ali1234> that's the same as putting && between every line...
[10:37] <ali1234> the right answer is set -e apparently
[11:10] <redtape-renegade> ali1234, Have you had any trouble with a 'Shuutle' HTPC in your buying of computers ? Are they prone to not working after a couple of years ?
[11:10] <redtape-renegade> **'Shuttle-PC's'
[11:11] <redtape-renegade> .. BRBack...
[11:22] <ali1234> redtape-renegade: funny you should ask that
[11:22] <ali1234> yes, i have had lots f problems with those damn things
[11:22] <ali1234> dead PSU, dead graphics...
[11:22] <ali1234> they overheat like crazy
[11:23] <ali1234> i have not used them for about 5 years though
[11:23] <ali1234> maybe they solved all those problems
[11:23] <davmor2> morning all
[11:39] <directhex> i wanted a shuttle, when i was youngert
[11:39] <directhex> and my wife's old pc was a shuttle. no overheating issues
[11:41] <ali1234> bought 7 of them for work and 5 of them died inside 3 years
[11:42] <ali1234> they were different models too
[11:42] <directhex> mmm, never had a problem.
[11:42] <directhex> core 2 duo e6850, and some single-slot geforce i forget the model of. 8800gt?
[11:43] <ali1234> the two that lived were the one i used as a linux machine and the one that was running moonwall firewall for the office
[11:45] <ali1234> this was back in like pentium 4 days
[11:45] <ali1234> though they had celerons in them
[12:35] <andylockran> howdy
[13:06] <Wobbo> hoe verwijder ik een hele serie. Ik wil van Rhythmbox een update gedaan van extern, maar die wil ik er vannaf.
[13:06] <SuperMatt> huh?
[13:07] <shauno> !nl
[13:07] <Wobbo> Sorry
[13:08] <shauno> I've tried speaking dutch, they laughed at me :(
[13:08] <SuperMatt> we would never do anything like that!
[13:08] <shauno> hah, I don't mean here :)
[13:08] <SuperMatt> oh right
[13:09] <shauno> but apparently speaking dutch with english phenomes comes out worse than franglais
[13:10] <shauno> not sure I have the right word there, but I know what I mean
[13:11] <SuperMatt> I know what you mean
[13:11] <shauno> phonemes, apparently.  but I was more concerned I'd confused it with pheromones, which would be awkward
[13:12] <SuperMatt> that would be bad
[13:13] <shauno> but I seem to have the same problem with most languages.  I'm terrible at replicating sounds
[13:13] <shauno> and it seems to be a terribly english problem.  we're taught from a very early age that impersonating someone's accent is offensive
[13:15] <SuperMatt> FOSS World Problems: The new Ubuntu backgrounds have landed, but my screen is so cluttered today that I can't see them :(
[13:21] <Laney> \o/ no more beer duty escalator
[13:21] <Laney> TO THE PUB
[13:22] <popey> +1
[13:22] <SuperMatt> beer duty escalator?
[13:24] <Laney> automatic above inflation increases in beer duty
[13:24] <SuperMatt> aha!
[13:24] <SuperMatt> TO THE PUB!
[13:27]  * popey wonders if ali1234 fancies taking on bug 1157710 :D
[13:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> 1p off beer :-)
[13:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Corp Tax. down :-)
[13:30] <Laney> this deputy speaker is great
[13:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have the sound off at the mo.
[13:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Think Milliband is T"£$%^&*( though.
[14:04] <dwatkins> $%&#â¬.... carrier lost
[14:58]  * redtape-renegade wakes up and has his last white chip chop giant cookie ..  the monster he is.
[14:59] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins, Hi there ..
[15:02] <redtape-renegade> Anyone near a certain , cambridge  ?? http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/watch-libreplanet-live-this-weekend
[15:13] <popey> Cambridge, MA. Not Cambridge UK.
[15:14] <popey> you may want to go to #libreplanet and let them know their blog post might want to specify a country or state
[15:16] <redtape-renegade> damn posted a second crud WebLink ! .. popey, please give me a slap.  | I cant believe I read that.
[15:19] <redtape-renegade> It's ok ; the cleaner slapped me this morning after I joked with her : " Oh, and the hoover needs a clean :) "  .. first slap off an old womann in 5 years !
[15:21] <redtape-renegade> dwatkins, pingywingy.
[15:22] <shauno> ou won't want to miss highlights like: Free Software Foundation president Richard Stallman presenting the 2012 Free Software Awards
[15:23] <shauno> I think the less I say there, the better
[15:23] <directhex> i'll say them!
[15:23] <directhex> rms is a boor and a bore!
[15:24] <redtape-renegade> shauno,  I meet these guys on IRC from America .. as it's Pennsylvania  I know they will be going http://youtu.be/A4A2JTYBoPk?t=8m3s
[15:24] <redtape-renegade> bit of a mess over there at the moment.
[15:25] <redtape-renegade> *** met
[15:27] <redtape-renegade> alan_g, Enjoy your beverage ?
[15:27] <redtape-renegade> hi kvarley
[15:28] <kvarley> redtape-renegade: \0
[15:28] <alan_g> redtape-renegade: that is the point. ;)
[15:30]  * redtape-renegade enjoys chocolate :: http://goo.gl/joozQ
[15:32] <dwatkins> redtape-renegade: sorry, was elsewhere in cyberspace
[15:35] <ali1234> makefiles... can i override the metric used to determine age of dependencies?
[15:36] <ali1234> like if i say foo: foo.c
[15:36] <ali1234> the rules triggers is foo is older than foo.c
[15:36] <ali1234> but suppose i say foo: foo.git and i want to rebuild foo if it is older than the last commit on foo.git
[15:37] <redtape-renegade> ali1234, Quick question: What was thev firefox add-on you said to use to download youtube videos with ?
[15:37] <redtape-renegade> **the.. firefox addon
[15:37] <ali1234> http://www.downloadhelper.net/
[15:37] <redtape-renegade> thankyou.
[16:21] <redtape-renegade> popey, AAAAaaagh swapnil called Canonical " ungrateful " .. he's doing it again !   ||| http://www.muktware.com/5273/ubuntu-touch-is-more-android-than-ubuntu
[16:25] <directhex> muktware is... not a great source of well-thought out articles
[16:25] <directhex> i'm not a fan of their work
[16:27] <popey> he didnt write that
[16:30] <redtape-renegade> He questioned how 'gratefull' they are http://paste.ubuntu.com/5631625/ popey, What are you up to at momemt ?
[16:30] <popey> no. he didn't
[16:30] <redtape-renegade> he chose the challenging words.
[16:31] <directhex> C. Anthony Espo did. look at the top.
[16:32] <directhex> but i don't think the individual makes much difference, the whole site is toxic IMHO.
[16:32] <popey> indeed
[16:32] <popey> C. Anthony Esposito
[16:32] <Azelphur> OT question, how would I go about finding a solicitor to do with rental / repairs?
[16:34] <redtape-renegade> I know some crap solicitors .. Azelphur : : www.solicitorsfromhell.net/
[16:34] <Azelphur> lol
[16:35] <popey> I'd probably ask on MSE or similar forums
[16:36]  * redtape-renegade googles the Macedonian Stock Exchange.
[16:40] <ali1234> replies on that post are trololol
[16:42] <redtape-renegade> ali1234, What name do you use on disqus , then ?
[16:42] <ali1234> i use my real name
[16:42] <redtape-renegade> ali1234, What name do you use on disqus , then ?
[16:43] <ali1234> i'm not replying to that mess
[16:43] <ali1234> i don't even know where to start. literally everyone posting there has no clue or is trolling
[16:43] <ali1234> and as usual it is impossible to tell which is which
[16:43] <redtape-renegade> is it ?
[16:44] <ali1234> well except the canonical employees. you have to assume they know what they are talking about which basically leaves one alternative
[16:45] <redtape-renegade> S0o you only listen to the gospel according to Canonical :|
[16:45] <ali1234> ha
[16:46] <redtape-renegade> thankyou for the add-on BTWay .. I'm listening to czaj. on vlc now.
[16:47] <redtape-renegade> Apparently there is going to be a youtu.be of how to write manuals for Ubuntu.
[16:48] <redtape-renegade> organised by jono , the community leadership team and documentation team.
[16:48] <ali1234> lol
[16:48] <Laney> Azelphur: shelter might be able to put you onto one?
[16:49] <redtape-renegade> I like shelter Laney.
[16:49] <redtape-renegade> they gave me free porridge in 1996 in London.
[16:50] <Laney> they're a good bunch
[16:50] <redtape-renegade> yep, I can tell you the story if you like ?
[16:52] <czajkowski> redtape-renegade: well  we're going to try and see if we can the docs up to date so it's easier to get involved
[16:52] <czajkowski> and yes czaj is on highlight
[16:53] <redtape-renegade> czajkowski, Is that for another meeting, or is there a launchpad team ? I'd love to know.
[16:54] <czajkowski> there is the docs team
[16:54] <czajkowski> and there will be a meeting soon so I suggest keeping an eye on planet
[16:54] <redtape-renegade> or the fridge :)
[16:55] <redtape-renegade> also IRC logs too. :|
[16:55] <czajkowski> the fridge posts to the planet :)
[17:02] <redtape-renegade> OT: Cost of a pint goes down by a penny on Sunday :D
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> oh they're adding more water to the beer?
[17:06] <popey> \o/ Just showed Sophie how to do loops in Python
[17:06] <MartijnVdS> cool! :)
[17:06] <shauno> I think I need a new career.  your daughter is now more proficient in python than I am!
[17:06] <MartijnVdS> how long until she's a contributor to Ubuntu code? :)
[17:07] <popey> just bought her a book on scratch programming, going to get her doing that for principles
[17:08] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, It's budgeted is beer .. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget-2013-price-of-beer-cut-by-1p-fuel-duty-rise-is-scrapped-and-no-income-tax-on-first-10k-of-earnings-8542360.html
[17:13] <kvarley> popey: You're a dream parent
[17:19] <popey> lol
[17:22] <mungbean> my laptop which used to suspend ok, no logner suspends - just freezes on blank dark screen when clicking suspend - intel graphics - any ideas?
[17:26] <popey> can you ping it?
[17:27] <mungbean> i suspect not, since ctrl-alt-f1 etc don't work
[17:39] <BigRedS_> what's that got to do with pinging
[17:41] <mungbean> BigRedS: because the system is frozen
[17:41] <mungbean> and not responding
[17:42] <mungbean> will try anyway though
[17:54] <BigRedS> no, the GUI is frozen and not responding. I've many times had X crash such that ctrl-alt-f? doesn't work but sshing in does
[17:54] <BigRedS> not for a long time, admittedly
[17:54] <Myrtti> popey: first reports of US people getting their Nabee Socks *yipyip*
[17:56] <Azelphur> Laney: yea that's what I should do, I've already talked to them so I should ask them to refer me
[17:58] <mungbean> is mencoder equivalent to ffmpeg for conversion/remuxing?
[17:58] <mungbean> or is one preferred over the other
[18:02] <ali1234> mungbean: no, and no
[18:03] <ali1234> also doesn't ubuntu use libav these days?
[18:05] <mungbean> yes, let me rephrase then:
[18:06] <mungbean> which is best way to convert iplayer .mp4 downloads to xvid on the CLI ?
[18:06] <mungbean> on ubuntu
[18:07] <directhex> xvid? retro!
[18:07] <mungbean> yeah
[18:07] <mungbean> i am compelled to use it
[18:07] <ali1234> try them all and see which one actually works
[18:07] <ali1234> every job is different
[18:08] <ali1234> and every tool has it's own unusual quirks
[18:08] <ali1234> video encoding is a huge mess :(
[18:08] <mungbean> seems to be a minefield of undomcumented or new/obsoleted options
[18:09] <mungbean> just converted a 40MB .mp4 to 100MB xvid
[18:09] <ali1234> yeah
[18:10] <ali1234> is this for a hardware player?
[18:10] <ali1234> they are really picky
[18:10] <ali1234> and they're all different
[18:10] <mungbean> yeah
[18:10] <mungbean> sucks a bundle
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> Just confused Dr. Who... told him about podcasts that were live but aren't live any more... but were live, but not live at the the time of release
[18:57] <daftykins> hey all :)
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:57] <daftykins> i'm finally back, in my new house
[18:57] <SuperEngineer>  ...and when I tried to explain a rolling release with a stable tip... oh dear, hope he recovers in tim
[18:57] <daftykins> VDSL2+ just got enabled this afternoon :O
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: only one more week (and a few days)
[18:57] <daftykins> Attainable rate (kbit/s) 49876 down 20899 up
[18:57] <daftykins> :O
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: so you have slightly less slow internet now? :)
[18:57] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[18:58] <daftykins> ~4MB/sec down
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> *hmmm 100/100*
[18:58]  * MartijnVdS hugs his fibre
[18:58] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: it does me fine :) i was happy with 16Mb, 1.8MB/sec was great
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> that.. might have come out wrong
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I can tell you, 9.8 *upload* is great too ;)
[18:58] <daftykins> heh the line is fluctuating
[18:58] <daftykins> yarr i'd love more upstream
[18:58] <daftykins> but i'm at the mercy of my ISP :)
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: you can still move to the Netherlands ;)
[19:01] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: naaaah i'm good with no snow
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> I haven't seen snow in a week!
[19:01] <daftykins> XD
[19:01] <daftykins> we had two days of it, whole island closed down XD
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> oh we do that too.. two flakes of snow? Emergency timetables for rail travel!
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> 50% reduction in # of trains
[19:05] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Uk doesn't need snow to produce a 50% reduction in # of trains - any excuse will do for us
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I've found train travel in the UK to be a bit strange
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: all those companies on the same line.. with different tickets
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> how do you know which train to board?!
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> "Ooh that <brand X> train is 5 minutes faster! But it leaves 10 minutes later.."
[19:08] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: you lookat all the trains - you get on the one with a "buffet" [bar] ...&hope
[19:08] <shauno> leaves.  mumble mumble leaves.  you should try commuting between cumbria and scotland.  between snow & wet leaves, the west coast line doesn't stand a chance
[19:10] <SuperEngineer> shauno: I guess you hate Autumn snow in that case
[19:10] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: do you mind if i PM you for a quick favour regarding what's showing on my IP?
[19:11] <Azelphur> latest on my landlord tales is that he's now trying to evict me for forcing him to do repairs, which is of no surprise
[19:11] <mungbean> ali1234: my experiments are showing similar quality when viewed on telly, but ffmpeg doubles the file size
[19:11] <Azelphur> xD
[19:12] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah no nm i'm all good
[19:13] <SuperEngineer> Serious question - any ideas why kernel .39 showed in uodates, downloaded, installed?... but doesn't show as installed?
[19:13] <mungbean> ali1234: using -ovc xvid -oac mp3lame -xvidencopts pass=1
[19:13] <SuperEngineer> update grub proves still on .38
[19:14] <SuperEngineer> synaptic says not not installed
[19:14] <SuperEngineer> [using 12.04]
[19:16] <SuperEngineer> & .39 installed on acer netbook and hp mini? /me confused
[19:20] <SuperEngineer> [I'll take the silence as *no idea* then]
[19:22] <daftykins> what's in /boot ?
[19:22] <daftykins> are they both there?
[19:23]  * SuperEngineer checks
[19:24] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: no - .37 & .38 only
[19:25] <daftykins> sounds like if there really was a .39 that went on, it didn't
[19:25] <daftykins> :D
[19:25] <SuperEngineer> agreed
[19:25] <SuperEngineer> but update thinks it did :(
[19:26] <daftykins> 'sudo apt-get -f install' do anything?
[19:26] <daftykins> is it possible the -39 was a package version rather than the kernel version? not that that's likely
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: agreed - .39 kernwl successfuully installed on 2 other pooters
[19:27] <SuperEngineer> ..what is the -f option?
[19:28]  * SuperEngineer checks options
[19:29] <SuperEngineer> ah...l now I see the logic
[19:31] <SuperEngineer> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[19:31]  * SuperEngineer confused
[19:32] <SuperEngineer> would it be wise to force a manual install?
[19:34] <daftykins> no reason not to apt-get install linux-image-x.x.x-y-generic say
[19:34] <daftykins> but it's comfier just to apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade imo ^_^
[19:34] <SuperEngineer> will try that one - thanks
[19:41] <SuperEngineer> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[19:41] <SuperEngineer> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[19:41] <SuperEngineer> hmmm...
[19:41] <daftykins> is that with sudo?
[19:41] <SuperEngineer> yup
[19:41] <daftykins> have you got another package manager active?
[19:42] <daftykins> like a GUI software manager / etc if it's a desktop, or another terminal going?
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> no.. that's why confused
[19:42] <SuperEngineer> maybe time to do a reboot and try methinks
[19:44] <SuperEngineer> bbs
[19:49]  * redtape-renegade flees off to the shops for FANTA & chews.
[19:50] <popey> welcome back daftykins
[20:07] <SuperEngineer> nah - decided not to install 3.3.0-39 kernel onthis machine... synaptic gives warnings
[20:07] <SuperEngineer> ...seems to be mor suited to 32bit architecture
[20:08] <SuperEngineer> [accounts for whty installed on nertbook & mini] but not this pooter
[20:08] <SuperEngineer> *netbook
[20:09] <SuperEngineer> ...congrats to all those who built in pre-checks ;)
[20:09] <SuperEngineer> oh - please sub 3.3 for 3.2 - doh!
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> Interesting email from Steam support telling ne how to go update a video driver in Ubuntu :D
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> ... the bug I reported was unfortunately about the latest driver killing 'X' - lol
[20:22] <SuperEngineer> ..so that's how you get around a bug confirmed by others as well - pretend they don't even even know the basics... made I smile!
[20:38] <gurnemanz> openbravo
[20:54] <SuperMatt> woo! 25 second boot time :)
[21:13] <SuperEngineer> pleasing thought time - there are more bugs discovered in a rain forest every year than ever found in a linux distro
[22:11] <BigRedS> hahaha
[22:30]  * Laney books his first full price train ticket (ever?) and weeps
[22:31] <brobostigon> first class ?
[22:31] <Laney> no, that would have been insane
[22:32] <czajkowski> Laney: are you coming down to London
[22:32] <Laney> yes
[22:32] <Laney> friday
[22:33] <czajkowski> this friday?
[22:33] <Laney> aye
[22:33] <czajkowski> boo
[22:33] <Laney> currently thinking I'll head to the office for the aft
[23:01]  * redtape-renegade hears Jimmy.
[23:12] <popey> Laney: are you going to use the bug to point out the obvious "It's asking me a yes or no question with no yes or no buttons"?
[23:12] <popey> (that's the single thing that has been pointed out to me N times where N>1)
[23:13] <Laney> I just subscribed you to one I filed
[23:14] <popey> THANK YOU.
[23:14] <popey> oh look. more mail.
[23:14] <Laney> use your Klout™ to get it fixed
[23:15]  * Laney heads up the wooden hill to bedford
[23:15] <popey> \o/ I opted out of Klout™ to prevent exactly these situations.
[23:19] <directhex> Klout™ is broken today, so i cannot verify statements regarding your Klout™ Score™
[23:20] <popey> \o/ new bug
[23:24] <popey> Anyone using the experimental ppa fancy reproducing bug 1158021
[23:37] <popey> bah, and another
[23:39] <popey> bug 1158025 is easy to reproduce