[11:08] <smartboyhw> Hello zequence 
[11:09] <smartboyhw> micahg, ping
[11:11] <zequence> smartboyhw: Hi. Did you do your tests yet?
[11:11] <smartboyhw> zequence, for what?
[11:11] <smartboyhw> Upgrades?
[11:12] <smartboyhw> You know, I have been busy with tests in the last few days (1 week I think)
[11:12] <zequence> smartboyhw: No, I meant school
[11:12] <smartboyhw> And I will be away for 4 days till Tuesday I think)
[11:12] <smartboyhw> >>>>>>>
[11:12] <smartboyhw> zequence, so NO:P
[11:12] <zequence> Well, good luck with them
[11:13] <smartboyhw> zequence, :)
[11:13] <smartboyhw> and here's scott-work !!!! XD
[11:29] <scott-work> hi smartboyhw 
[11:29]  * scott-work has been dealing with allergies this week
[11:29] <smartboyhw> scott-work, what allergies?
[11:30]  * smartboyhw has been dealing with dozens of tests
[11:30] <scott-work> smartboyhw: texas is seeing record high pollen counts the past week, my sinuses are working overtime
[11:31] <smartboyhw> Uh
[11:31] <scott-work> i've been getting sinus pressure headaches, my teeth even hurt from the pressure and my ears are stuffed up and popping
[11:31]  * smartboyhw thinks that Hong Kong has high air pollution always
[11:32] <zequence> smartboyhw: pollen, not pollution :)
[11:32] <smartboyhw> zequence, how are the test results for upgrade tests?
[11:32] <smartboyhw> zequence, that proves that every place has problems with air. scott-work got pollens, I got particles from factories in China
[11:33] <zequence> smartboyhw: I haven't started doing any yet. I will need a special machine for it
[11:33] <zequence> Haven't seen anyone doing any tests yet, but there's no particular hurry
[11:33] <scott-work> zequence: i saw your email (i'm working through a backlog of email now) and i should respond today
[11:33] <smartboyhw> scott-work, and condemn me:)
[11:36] <scott-work> smartboyhw: why would i condemn you?
[11:36] <smartboyhw> scott-work, look at one of the e-mails sent yesterday and you would understand.....
[11:36] <smartboyhw> And you will probably kill me:(
[11:37] <scott-work> heheh, i see what you mean ;)
[11:37] <scott-work> no i think that is a fair concern, i actually have been discussing this with zequence for a bit
[11:38] <smartboyhw> scott-work, ;)
[11:39] <scott-work> i have realized that i am being less and less involved, and this was one of my biggest criticisms of the previous leads and something i am sensitive towards
[11:39] <scott-work> i've been getting into some programming at work which is taking more time from my schedule
[11:40] <scott-work> and it looks like i should be starting a program for a bachelors degree for IT with software emphasis which will take even more time
[11:41] <smartboyhw> scott-work, good. I do want to get to MIT  or Harvald or Cal Tech for university :P
[11:51] <smartboyhw> zequence, when was our @ubuntustudio.org RT request filed?
[11:53] <zequence> smartboyhw: A long time ago. We haven't got any answer on that yet
[11:53] <zequence> Also, no answer on updating our website
[11:54] <smartboyhw> Hmm....
[11:54] <zequence> I think it was in December I made those requests
[11:54] <smartboyhw> Maybe they were too busy with the Forums upgrade
[11:54] <zequence> Usually it doesn't take this long
[11:55]  * smartboyhw agrees
[11:56] <smartboyhw> Well we can't go and chase the Canonical IS can we?
[12:02] <zequence> Who could we poke on IRC about this?
[12:02] <smartboyhw> zequence, can we poke at #canonical-sysadmin ?
[12:13] <zequence> did that, so let's see if someone can enlighten us on this
[12:26] <zequence> So, we'll just have to wait for a little while longer
[13:57] <ttoine> scott-work, what's up ?
[13:58] <scott-work> hi ttoine, just doing some lisp programming right now
[13:58] <ttoine> wow
[13:58] <ttoine> you will enjoy to know that Stephane LETZ is a good lisp programmer too ;-)
[13:58] <ttoine> it is only in french at the moment
[13:59] <ttoine> scott-work, http://lite.framapad.org/p/5n3kYagDQA
[14:01] <scott-work> ttoine: i'm a hacker, i can make stuff happen, but it isn't pretty or good ;)
[14:02] <ttoine> scott-work, and I own a licence for Ubuntu Studio stuff, it is done
[14:02] <scott-work> ttoine: WOW!  that is amazing and exciting news
[14:02] <ttoine> so now, I have to find a worldwide delivery website for creating t-shirt, caps, mugs, ...
[14:02] <scott-work> now we just need to develop some ideas for shirts, etc
[14:03] <ttoine> scott-work, sure
[14:03] <ttoine> but we can start with something simple
[14:04] <scott-work> "get your music on" :P
[14:04] <ttoine> scott-work, http://society6.com/
[14:04] <ttoine> you provide the artwork, they do the job
[14:05] <ttoine> from iphone c ases to posters
[14:05] <len-1304> Probably talk to the xubuntu people they are on round two of ordering stickers/t-shirts
[14:05] <len-1304> They know the pitfalls
[14:06] <ttoine> len-1304, I don't want us to order something
[14:06] <ttoine> who pay ???
[14:06] <ttoine> look at the society6 website
[14:06] <len-1304> Yes but they know which ones do a bad job :)
[14:07] <ttoine> len-1304, I actually now a french artist using this site
[14:07] <ttoine> and it is good quality
[14:07] <len-1304> They have a web page somewhere that you can take their logos and get your own stuff printed. I think they have recomendations.
[14:07] <ttoine> the only bad thing: they don't do mugs at the moment
[14:07] <len-1304> Ah, that is good then.
[14:08] <smartboyhw> ttoine, you do know how to sell things:)
[14:08] <len-1304> Any of the larger malls have kiosks that make mugs from artwork.
[14:08] <len-1304> (At least in north america)
[14:09] <len-1304> Not in this small city though.
[14:11] <zequence> If we were doing this only to get each of us a Ubuntu Studio cup, I'd be all for it. Would be pretty awesome drinking coffee from it
[14:12] <len-1304> A small COF to cover the MS flag would be nice...
[14:12] <zequence> Yeah, stickers are really great to have
[14:13] <zequence> I got a few from the last UDS. Got this old laptop, that is now Ubuntu only
[14:14] <smartboyhw> zequence, LOL:)
[14:14] <zequence> for the flag, but also for branding
[14:15] <zequence> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
[14:16] <len-1304> I like the idea of a mixed sheet
[14:17] <zequence> Maybe we could just use the same format that Ubuntu uses
[14:18] <zequence> We seriously need an art team for this stuff
[14:18] <len-1304> That was my first thought
[14:18] <smartboyhw> And we seriously need art contributors
[14:18] <smartboyhw> Sadly my art is basically crap
[14:21] <zequence> Even if we know what material to use, it takes a bit of effort to achieve the right ratios, and quality
[14:22] <zequence> I'd rather we had a unified style for logos and icons first, that we'd then use on websites, social sites, our ISO and these stickers
[14:22] <zequence> Maybe something to be planned for 14.04?
[14:23] <zequence> Get at least one guy to work on this
[14:24] <zequence> Kubuntu has their stuff in that store, btw
[14:26] <zequence> Wonder if they'd sponsor me with some cycling clothes. I will be participating in some events during summer http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=783
[14:26] <ttoine> smartboyhw, I have a master in marketing...
[14:27] <ttoine> zequence, society6 is not the best place for our stuff, since it for artists
[14:28] <ttoine> but I am sure we can find a place like that for Ubuntu Studio
[14:29] <zequence> ttoine: I think the Canonical store would be a good start
[14:29] <ttoine> zequence, perhaps
[14:29] <zequence> And our website
[14:30] <ttoine> I would say that have a link in our website to a place like society 6 would be grear
[14:30] <ttoine> great
[14:30] <ttoine> I don't have the time to manage orders, expeditions, etc. it costs a lot of time
[14:31] <ttoine> and I would prefer to find a place where they could do a per order production
[14:31] <zequence> So, Canonical store?
[14:31] <ttoine> it why places like society6 are very interessant
[14:31] <zequence> I don't know how the Canonical store works, but I would think it's managed by Canonical
[14:31] <ttoine> zequence, not possible... who will pay the 1000 stickers order ?
[14:32] <ttoine> If I get a licence for that, it may be because they are not interested to do that for ur
[14:32] <ttoine> us
[14:32] <zequence> Has anyone asked them?
[14:32] <zequence> What are the options in getting funds?
[14:33] <zequence> I don't know what the legal side of this is at all
[14:34] <zequence> We are very small, so probably to get anything started, we'll either need coorporate sponsoship or we pay ourselves
[14:34] <zequence> That's my guess anyway
[14:34] <len-1304> That is what xubuntu did
[14:34] <zequence> payed themselves?
[14:34] <len-1304> (paid themselves)
[14:35] <zequence> paid*
[14:35]  * len-1304 has been watching their channel
[14:36] <len-1304> SOme of the discussion will be in the irc logs
[14:36] <smartboyhw> ttoine, XD
[14:36] <smartboyhw> Should I ask some Kubuntu guys to come here?:P
[14:36] <ttoine> zequence, I asked them in the past. ubuntu store is for ubuntu
[14:36] <zequence> ttoine: And Kubuntu, apparently
[14:37] <ttoine> zequence, and with the licence, I don't have the right to make benefits
[14:37] <zequence> ttoine: What does the license really mean?
[14:37] <ttoine> zequence, it will disapear soon, I guess, for Kubuntu is not anymore an official distro, and is now founded by a german rich guy
[14:38] <ttoine> zequence, it means that we have the right to sell branded goods to enthusiast, without benefitsd
[14:38] <ttoine> just to serve the communication of our community
[14:38] <smartboyhw> ttoine, true
[14:38] <zequence> ttoine: What does benefits mean?
[14:39] <smartboyhw> zequence, nah Canonical *dumped* Kubuntu (that's how the Kubuntu guys think now)
[14:39] <ttoine> smartboyhw, ;-)
[14:39] <ttoine> I can't run a business with my licence
[14:39] <smartboyhw> ttoine, oh
[14:39] <ttoine> it non profit only
[14:39] <ttoine> it is
[14:40] <zequence> ttoine: Ok, so what it means you can start a non-profit organization that sells items with the Ubuntu Studio brand
[14:40] <len-1304> That is best anyway.
[14:40] <zequence> Where the non-profit organization is what holds the funds, etc
[14:41] <zequence> ttoine: Or, the license is to you, specifically?
[14:45] <ttoine> zequence, as Ubuntu Studio is not a company nor a non profit organisation, and as a member of Ubuntu Studio devel and team
[14:45] <ttoine> yes, I had to put my name on it
[14:45] <len-1304> Makes sense
[14:45] <ttoine> but it can be changed if in time we create a kind of foudnation
[14:45] <ttoine> or ong
[14:45] <zequence> Maybe that's a good idea to do?
[14:46] <ttoine> zequence, sure
[14:46] <ttoine> I can do that in France
[14:46] <zequence> Sounds good to me
[14:46] <ttoine> we call that a non profit association
[14:47] <len-1304> ong , at least here requires a minimum number of people and meetings. I am not sure they can be virtual meetings either.
[14:47] <zequence> bah, old rules :P
[14:48] <zequence> Yeah, let's start buying air planes tickets, so we can meet face to face every so often :)
[14:48] <len-1304> They are there to keep it from being abused
[14:48] <zequence> I guess that depends on what privileges the organization gets
[14:48] <len-1304> I think the books get looked at every year by the tax dep as well.
[14:48] <zequence> Yeah
[14:49] <len-1304> I would suggest that because our idea is not to make money, it only needs to be done in one country
[14:50] <len-1304> It is only there for holding artwork really.
[14:50] <zequence> If we can share responsibilities as far as the organization goes, that would be good. But, if ttoine is the only person to handle this, I think it will also be up to him to decide
[14:50] <len-1304> Yup.
[14:55] <zequence> Also, I don't speak French, and if I have to work with French text, even with Google translate, that might be a bit difficult
[14:57] <smartboyhw> Especially when it's sort of legal matters:)
[15:35] <smartboyhw> zequence, do we want ardour3 to be synced into the Ubuntu repos
[15:35] <smartboyhw> ?
[15:35] <ttoine> hop, here again
[15:35] <smartboyhw> Hey ttoine 
[15:35] <ttoine> sorry, I had am in a meeting, I had to restart my laptop with one screen only
[15:35] <smartboyhw> Oh
[15:36] <smartboyhw> You did see what we are talking about right?
[15:36] <ttoine> the amd driver is not friendly with suspend wake up and screens change
[15:36] <ttoine> no
[15:36] <ttoine> sorry
[15:37] <smartboyhw> ttoine, I will just post the sentences after you last speak before you left
[15:37] <smartboyhw> ttoine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5637281/
[15:37] <ttoine> thanks, smartboyhw 
[15:37] <smartboyhw> I think you wouldn't have missed it
[15:39] <ttoine> ok
[15:39] <ttoine> so actually, it may just be french text for what we call statuses
[15:39] <ttoine> basic accounting can be done on a shared google doc tab
[15:40] <ttoine> and of course, we can speak french and members of the ong board can be global
[15:40] <ttoine> so if you want me to create a kind of french ong so I can manage that, it is ok
[15:40] <ttoine> however
[15:41] <ttoine> think that I won't have time and money to pre order stuff we want to sell. and global delivery is a true job
[15:42] <ttoine> so please have in mind that we have to find an operator for that
[15:42] <ttoine> some website like society6, where we provide the artwork and they produce, sell and deliver
[15:42] <ttoine> otherwise it will be impossible to handle that
[15:42] <smartboyhw> For such complicated matters, I'm out of this money business:P
[15:43] <ttoine> I know well the people of framasoft.org and ubuntu-fr.org
[15:43] <ttoine> they have a website to sell stuff, look for http://enventelibre.org/
[15:44] <ttoine> they don't make a lot of turnaround. more, they spend so much time with that, they are considering to close it and find another solutioon
[15:44] <ttoine> and only deliver in france
[15:44] <ttoine> smartboyhw, you are not out ;-)
[15:44] <ttoine> we have a licence to sell branded stuff without profit
[15:45] <zequence> smartboyhw: If you want to sync Ardour3, I don't think anyone will object :)
[15:45] <ttoine> zequence, of course
[15:45] <len-1304> smartboyhw, of course we want A# packaged. The real question is do we want to keep an a2 package around?
[15:45] <len-1304> a3
[15:45] <zequence> len-1304: Debian Multimedia Team is going to do that
[15:45] <zequence> Have both
[15:46] <ttoine> zequence, smartboyhw, it will take me some time to organise that and find a webservice. but we can already start the artwork design
[15:46] <zequence> Since apparently, A3 can't open A2 projects
[15:46] <ttoine> and it doesn't have to be complicated
[15:46] <zequence> ttoine: The important thing about artwork IMO is that we have a unified style
[15:46] <ttoine> zequence, no, A2 can't open A3
[15:46] <len-1304> Is ardour going to keep updating a2 for a while?
[15:46] <zequence> And that means, the artwork needs to be done first
[15:47] <zequence> ttoine: Someone said A3 can't open A2 projects
[15:47] <len-1304> I thought A3 could import A2 projects.
[15:47] <ttoine> if you import an A2 session in A3, A3 will create a session fdor A2
[15:47] <ttoine> an archive
[15:47] <len-1304> Can't open
[15:47] <ttoine> zequence, look at the official release post on their blog
[15:48] <ttoine> but the modification done in A3 will not be saved back for the A2. it is only an archive.
[15:49] <zequence> Debian has just prepared an intial working package
[15:49] <len-1304> I think as long as A3 can save an A2 project as A3 that would be fine for most people
[15:49] <zequence> Someone would need to make sure it's syncable even, before anything
[15:50] <len-1304> those who are in the middle of an A2 project, may wish to be able to finish there though.
[15:51] <ttoine> len-1304, this is not the case
[15:51] <ttoine> A3 can not save in A2
[15:51] <ttoine> it can import it, and doing so, it just create an archive of the A2. that's all
[15:51] <ttoine> I get that from the ardour website
[15:52] <zequence> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-multimedia-maintainers/2013-March/031748.html
[15:52] <zequence> I guess that was wrong then
[15:52] <zequence> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-multimedia-maintainers/2013-March/031762.html
[15:53] <zequence> This late in the game, syncing A3 might not be the best idea, but I'm not going to stop anyone from trying
[15:53] <len-1304> A3 can not import an A2 project and save it as A3? Then why have it import at all?
[15:54] <len-1304> zequence, I don't expect A3 in 13.04
[15:55] <ttoine> len-1304, follow what i am saying
[15:55] <len-1304> And it sounds like the normal replace ver2 with ver3 method is not a "good idea" anyway.
[15:56] <len-1304> ttoine, Ya I tried, but it doesn't make sense to me.
[15:56] <ttoine> you can import an A2 in A3. doing so, A3 will save the A2 version of the session. Once you started to work with A3, it will not possible to work on it with A2. the only thing you can have in A2 is the save
[15:57] <zequence> len-1304: Well, it won't appear in 13.04 automatically, since Debian import freeze was a long time ago
[15:57] <len-1304> ttoine, so the project in A2 would become an A3 project.
[15:57] <ttoine> len-1304, sure. I think that there is an issue with pan of tracks, but i am not sure where I read that
[15:59] <ttoine> I am pretty sure too that Harrison will soon release an A3 based Mixbus version
[16:00] <smartboyhw> zequence, len-1304 as it turns out I can't sync yet it stil hasn't been uploaded to Debian (prepared already)
[16:02] <len-1304> Like everything, buy a new hard drive for the new version. Then I will have 11.04, 12.04 and 14.04
[16:02] <len-1304> smartboyhw, I think we need to keep A2 alive
[16:03] <len-1304> ttoine, yes there is work on making a harrison mixbus3
[16:03] <smartboyhw> len-1304, hmm i think ardour3 will be a seperate package from ardour
[16:03] <smartboyhw> I don't know
[16:03] <len-1304> So not sync, but package then
[16:04] <len-1304> sync means replace with
[16:04] <smartboyhw> len-1304, ?
[16:04] <zequence> sync means import from Debian
[16:04] <smartboyhw> Well we can sync new packages
[16:04] <zequence> sync our with Debian
[16:04] <smartboyhw> From Debian
[16:04] <len-1304> sync means get the latest version
[16:04] <zequence> sync means syncing with Debian
[16:04]  * smartboyhw wonders if we have to start a debate on "How to define 'sync'"
[16:04] <len-1304> If they are named differently we should be ok then
[16:05]  * len-1304 was never very good with debate
[16:06] <ttoine> len-1304, I know, I asked them ;-)
[16:06] <ttoine> smartboyhw, it is possible to install both ardour 2 and 3 on the same computer
[16:08] <smartboyhw> len-1304, I am good at debate:)
[16:08] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yep
[16:11] <len-1304> Yes, I have had as many as three versions of Ardour at once.
[16:12] <len-1304> As long as they keep their binaries in separate directories or at least uniquely named. I think the config has to be in different directories too.
[16:12] <ttoine> len-1304, it is scheduled this way in the release note
[16:13] <len-1304> The downloads from ardour.org each use a separate directory under /opt
[16:13] <ttoine> need to restart, again a problem with amd driver when pluging my second screen
[16:13] <zequence> It all depends on the packaging, really
[16:13] <zequence> Well, configs may need to be hardcoded
[16:14] <zequence> ..for the application, as it is expecting to find them in certain places or with certain names
[16:14] <len-1304> Yup
[16:15] <len-1304> TCL keeps separate directories in /usr/lib last I looked. so it would be the same kind of thing.
[16:15] <zequence> Just spent half a day trying to get back a guitar sound I got a few days ago
[16:15] <len-1304> Always take notes...
[16:15] <zequence> Well, not the guitar sound itself, but mic placement
[16:15]  * len-1304 still hasn't learned this yet
[16:17] <zequence> When I started recording a few days ago, I didn't have a good mic stand, so I just put the mic somewhere close to the speaker. Not centered at all. A bit above, pointing towards the middle. It's a condenser mic
[16:17] <zequence> Then, when I was going to do it properly, with better placement, it just sounded crap
[16:17] <ttoine> hop
[16:18] <zequence> Now I'm back where I started. Sounds good now, but I want to isolate the are a bit. Getting my picking sound into the mic
[16:18] <zequence> Don't want to sit in another room
[16:19] <zequence> Think I learned something new about mic placement with condensers today
[16:19] <zequence> It just sounds so different - which is not what I'm used to
[16:20] <zequence> a bit of phase distortion too, makes wonders to this particular sound
[16:58] <Len-nb> the software updater seems more flaky these days... The icon shows in systray, I click on show updates sometimes it never shows up sometimes just the window decoration.
[16:59] <Len-nb> Xubuntu has about 250 updates since yesterday
[17:06] <ttoine> len-1304, I had problem like that in unity
[17:06] <ttoine> it is fixed, since
[17:07] <len-1304> I think the software updater in general needs to provide more user feed back. Even when it works, I click on it and it takes much longer than usual before anything happens. Often there is not even some disk activity.
[17:08] <len-1304> I would guess it is checking network connections for all ppas apt is aware of.
[17:09] <len-1304> I have been using apt-get a lot more these days.
[17:25] <ttoine> goog week-end to all
[21:14] <len-1304> Speaking of sync of packages. mudita24 version 1.1.0 fixes the issues zequence and I found earlier.
[21:18] <len-1304> The one we ship says 1.0.4 in the about and synaptic says latest installed is 1.0.3 (mudita still)
[21:25] <len-1304> Ok, no syncrequest because debian does not yet have mudita24 anyway.
[21:26] <len-1304> zequence, how do we go about requesting an update to a new package in debian?
[21:27] <len-1304> Version 1.1.0 cam out a month ago BTW
[21:27] <len-1304> Oops longer, Feb 2.
[22:13] <zequence> len-1304: Because of the Debian freeze, which has been going on for many months now (they won't release until all serious bugs have been fixed, and it will probably take a couple of more months), may be that packages aren't being updated as frequently
[22:13] <zequence> len-1304: Also, there may be low activity on some packages, depending on who maintains it, etc
[22:13] <len-1304> Well we won't need it before 13.04 anyway.
[22:14] <len-1304> But it should be in 14.04
[22:15] <len-1304> They look like they have about 4 sets of repos. Is there one not frozen?
[22:17] <zequence> I'm not 100% sure about how those work, but stable is of course stable, which is squeeze
[22:17] <zequence> testing is the development release
[22:17] <zequence> Which is wheezy
[22:17] <len-1304> Then there is unstable and testing
[22:17] <zequence> sid is unstable
[22:18] <len-1304> mudita24 is only in sid and wheezy, same version.
[22:18] <zequence> Then there's also experimental, but you can only install packages from there, if you expressively use an option to do that with apt-get
[22:19] <len-1304> maybe that was the other one.
[22:19] <zequence> experimental is not a release, while the others are
[22:19] <zequence> sid will never change. It will always be called sid
[22:19] <len-1304> Ok, that makes sense
[22:20] <zequence> testing is the next release, and stable is the current release
[22:33] <len-1304> I am still not sure what that means so far as getting the newer version of mudita24 or other SW available for our use once 13.04 is out, zequence .
[22:34] <len-1304> Ie, does that mean things should start moving soon enough not top be a problem?
[22:51] <zequence> len-1304: Don't know.
[22:51] <len-1304> OK
[23:02] <len-1304> zequence, new email about ... email addresses. His solution sounds just fine to me.
[23:04] <len-1304> In fact I think that looks to me what was meant
[23:42] <zequence> len-1304: Cool. Let's see..
[23:48] <zequence> Well, it'll mean we need to poke them each time we want to change an adress, but I think that few of us will actually have a use of it anyway