[08:20] <redtape-renegade> Morning, least it's not raining today here !!
[08:22] <czajkowski> snow--
[08:35] <AlanBell> snow here
[08:36] <AlanBell> got to go into farnham later and get a new phone for an offspring
[08:36] <AlanBell> carphone warehouse appears to have a Samsung Galaxy Ace for £7.50/month
[08:53] <directhex> still snowing here
[08:53] <directhex> a little
[08:54] <directhex> bad enough that the prius isn't going anywhere
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> No snow here, but strong cold winds (wind chill: -15°C)
[09:07] <redtape-renegade> post pictures here or on twitter ppl !
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: can't take very good pictures of wind
[09:09] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, And it's w-effects ?? What 'bout that ?
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> ?
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> w-effects?
[09:10] <redtape-renegade> wind effect
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: My 6D is with the package delivery man .. should be here within the hour ;)
[09:10] <redtape-renegade> Is that a camera ?
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-6d
[09:11] <redtape-renegade> appears so :: | http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-eos-6d-with/4505-6501_7-35437982.html
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> a very shiny one :)
[09:12] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Haha .. First Rule of Google : Never go for the first suggestion !
[09:12] <redtape-renegade> My window is whistling to me !
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: forgot to take your pills again? ;)
[09:15] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, I had rabbies injection when I was 12 .. after that I need guiness as medication to defeating trolling comments .
[09:18] <redtape-renegade> ...
[09:19] <redtape-renegade> Dunno if anyone has nothing to-do today, But the LibrePlanet conference is on over in Boston, US :: |  http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanet:Conference/2013/Program
[09:19] <redtape-renegade> There's video for the first time this year \o/
[09:20] <redtape-renegade> but you'll prob.ly say they're childiish, or something..
[09:20] <redtape-renegade> which I tend to agree.
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> LibrePlanet? what's that?
[09:20] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Dude, wake up see the Link !
[09:20] <MartijnVdS> FSF trying to take over the world?
[09:21] <redtape-renegade> they just monitor website usually.
[09:21] <redtape-renegade> **websites.. usually
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> Big Stallman is Watching You?
[09:22] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, You are obviously not in constructive-comments mode today, are you ?
[09:23] <MartijnVdS> I just don't like the way FSF promotes its ideas usually :)
[09:24] <redtape-renegade> Yeah, you never really say what 's good about anything...
[09:28] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS, Perhaps you are better on something Like Reddit ::: | http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1au3k9/instead_of_using_actual_spray_cans_some_artists/
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: Saw that one :) Reminded me of some ads(!) they did on the sidewalk a few months ago
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: using a template + pressure washer :)
[09:29] <redtape-renegade> It's obvious ..
[09:30] <redtape-renegade> they do it outside of public houses in Ireland to get bookie advertising for years .. they even scew the image so if you are walking you only see the complete advert for a millisecond .. it makes you *blink * !
[09:32] <redtape-renegade> Aaaw Man , my milk went off a-day-early !
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> aww
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: should have kept it outside, it's cold enough ;)
[09:34] <redtape-renegade> troo.#
[09:34]  * redtape-renegade 's having a smokey.
[09:38] <redtape-renegade> Oh man , purple haze, purple haze.
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> is that when purple rain evaporates?
[09:39] <redtape-renegade> no it when you have a smokey.
[09:39] <redtape-renegade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVH3WGj7VE  It's getting colder !
[09:43] <redtape-renegade> Yay http://www.ubuntu-cola.blogspot.com/  is on blogspot .. i didn't know that !
[09:43]  * redtape-renegade          prefers Ribena    .
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> http://pyvideo.org/video/1668/keynote-2
[09:48] <redtape-renegade> opening...
[09:54] <redtape-renegade> yay BBCMicro http://youtu.be/PAHBZImmXsI?t=2m24s
[10:35] <redtape-renegade> OT | Man,, Ive got to stop getting fleeced on classified website's http://www.gumtree.co.za/fp-ubuntu?isSearchForm=true .. BTW 1.00 GBP	=	14.1464 ZAR (south African rands)
[10:45] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:52] <meet> Hi. I have a dell N5110 system. I installed 12.04. But I am not getting any touch scroll options in the settings menu for mouse. Also, I tried the instructions given here: http://goo.gl/B2snx which had once worked for me on elementary OS based on 12.04. but it's not working for me now. what can I do?
[11:02] <redtape-renegade> OT | Isle of Man get a mention on the front page of Y!ahoo UK website .. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/on-this-day-mike-hailwood-killed-in-car-crash-140435227.html#Id2otEA
[12:16] <popey> morning
[12:16] <popey> ish
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> \o
[12:17] <SuperMatt> morning
[12:18]  * SuperMatt is doing the 'install windows before everything else dance' except the windows install isn't working >:(
[12:18] <SuperMatt> ooooh, finally!
[12:18] <SuperMatt> after about 5 installs and blindly changing bios options \o/
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: "REset to default/safe values" doesn't work?
[12:25] <SuperMatt> nope
[12:26] <kvarley> Anybody here know htacccess? I want to rewrite myfolder/index.html to www.example.com/this
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: htaccess is just bits of apache config :)
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: look up the "mod_rewrite" guide in the Apache docs
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> it has loads of examples
[12:33] <SuperMatt> kvarley: I know it
[12:34] <SuperMatt> RewriteRule /myfolder/index.html http://www.example.com/this [R=301]
[12:34] <SuperMatt> and make sure you have rewrite engine on
[12:34] <SuperMatt> with RewriteEngine On
[12:34] <SuperMatt> that goes before it
[13:32] <mungbean> seen this? looks handy https://www.leapmotion.com/product
[13:32] <mungbean> gesture device for your media pc would be good
[14:08] <AlanBell> reasonably priced too
[14:37] <penguin42> interesting - I wonder what it looks like to the host
[14:40] <popey> "mac or pc"
[14:40] <popey> a device via a driver by the look of it
[14:42] <AlanBell> looks like a camera that does black images apparently
[14:42] <penguin42> yeh I wondered where the image interepretation was - if it's in the device then there is a chance of making it work
[14:45] <rmarcandier>  /msg NickServ identify lag123ss
[14:45] <AlanBell> got http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/mobile-phones/HTC_DESIRE_C2/MONTHLY for eldest sprog this morning
[14:45] <penguin42> rmarcandier: Oops
[14:45] <AlanBell> new password time rmarcandier
[14:45] <Myrtti> sprog
[14:45] <Myrtti> lol
[14:45] <rmarcandier> omg
[14:45] <AlanBell> sproglette then Myrtti
[14:55] <popey> AlanBell: how old is eldest sprog now?
[14:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: 12
[14:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I met AlanBell at the anti-natal class for our 1st borns.
[14:57] <popey> hah
[14:57] <popey> hope she doesn't ever answer the google birthday challenge then
[14:57] <popey> will have her google account shutdown
[14:58] <popey> I have informed Sophie to call me if it ever asks for her date of birth
[14:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Right, back to making a Roman shield with thing 2... We are learning about scale
[14:59] <StevenR> popey: google birthday challenge?
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: google sometimes asks you for your birthday ("Is this correct?" "We want to make sure our records are complete in case you ever need to reset your password" etc.)
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> StevenR: and if you're <13 you aren't allowed an account
[15:01] <StevenR> ahhh
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: is the "13 years" rule also in place for (paid?) "apps" accounts?
[15:02] <StevenR> hrrm. Dad's computer keeps crashing - BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at 00000002000000c0   We've checked the RAM using memtest overnight and it came up clean, similarly a touch /forcefsck brought up nothing. He's running 3.2.0-39 at the moment. I've suggested he try -38 next time it happens. Is there anything else I should do?
[15:02] <StevenR> (it's Xubuntu on top of the current LTS)
[15:03] <popey> i believe so MartijnVdS
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> popey: weird rules are weird
[15:04] <AlanBell> popey: yeah, I have heard of that too
[15:05] <penguin42> StevenR: Can you get the rest of the error?
[15:06] <penguin42> StevenR: if you're RAM is good then it's almost certainly a kernel bug
[15:07] <StevenR> penguin42: yeah, I can grab the rest of it
[15:07] <StevenR> openvpn ftw :)
[15:08]  * MartijnVdS now has an OpenWRT router doing the heavy lifting (of the 100/100 fibre link)
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> it's faster than the ISP-supplied Fritz!Box :)
[15:09] <penguin42> StevenR: You could also remotely run an ubuntu-bug linux    from a terminal it'll give you a URL that you can open to fill in the details
[15:10] <StevenR> penguin42: ok.... I'll make sure it's actually a problem with -39 first :)
[15:10] <StevenR> if it still crashes with earlier versions, it's probably not kernel (the box is around 10mo old)
[15:23] <StevenR> thanks penguin42
[15:24] <penguin42> no problem - have you got a bug number?
[15:24] <StevenR> not yet
[15:24]  * penguin42 is happy to look at the back trace
[15:25] <StevenR> I want to try -38 first, to be sure it's actually a bug in -39
[15:59]  * kvarley 's Kindle Fire just died :(
[16:00] <brobostigon> hw or sw?
[16:00] <kvarley> Hardware
[16:00] <kvarley> Just turned off suddenly
[16:00] <kvarley> No low battery warning
[16:00] <kvarley> Now won't turn on
[16:01] <kvarley> Won't accept charge
[16:01] <kvarley> It's a shame .. but I was itching for a nexus 10 ;)
[16:02] <brobostigon> :( :)
[16:07] <Myrtti> how long have you left it in the charger?
[16:08] <popey> kvarley: some friends of mine have had their kindle replaced out of warranty
[16:46] <skinofstars> hey guys. don't suppose anyone's got a moment to help me with an apache local development setup? i'm trying to get a projects folder in my home dir that i can edit.
[16:46] <skinofstars> i'm getting a 403
[16:46] <skinofstars> here is my rough setup http://pastebin.com/661Tcaec can anyone spot something wrong?
[16:48] <AlanBell> skinofstars: the apache server (www-data) needs to be able to read the folder concerned
[16:48] <AlanBell> and /home/kevin too
[16:49] <skinofstars> hmm. i created a group with both myself and www-data in it and set that to the projects folder. do i really need to do that for my home folder too?
[16:51] <AlanBell> dunno, it wants to look at the .htaccess there, not quite sure why
[16:53] <skinofstars> no, seems really odd.
[16:54] <skinofstars> ok, i chgrp my home dir to a group that looks like - webdev:x:1002:www-data,kevin
[16:54] <skinofstars> still didn't work
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> skinofstars: should not be necessary
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> skinofstars: Can you put the output of "ls -ld ~" and "ls -ld ~/projects" somewhere?
[16:54] <skinofstars> agreed. i'm sure it didn't have to do this on previous setups
[16:54] <skinofstars> sure
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> I bet ~ doesn't have o+x ("search permissions for others"). www-data = "others"
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> so: "chmod o+x ~; chmod 755 ~/projects" should probably fix it
[16:57] <skinofstars> http://pastebin.com/vdPPYmkr
[16:57] <skinofstars> ok, i'll try that
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> + on your homedir?
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> you enabled POSIX ACLs?
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> you shouldn't need that
[16:57] <skinofstars> this is pretty much a fresh install
[16:57] <MartijnVdS> ok
[16:57] <skinofstars> i've just been using php's inbuilt server
[16:58] <skinofstars> but i'm doing some stuff that needs apache
[17:08] <skinofstars> MartijnVdS: ok, i've made some progress. thanks for your help. what does the + on the homedir mean?
[17:10] <skinofstars> ahh, acl. i'll look that up. thanks
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> skinofstars: it means an ACL is set, check out more using "getfacl ~"
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> (getfacl -> get file ACL)
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> (\o/ 10,5MB/s)
[17:57] <Adriannom> hi.  having trouble getting my wifi card to work.  ubuntu 12.10, lspci says "Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI".  compiled the ralink driver but iwconfig says no wifi card.  anyone have any ideas?
[18:25] <popey> !ralink
[18:25] <popey> Adriannom: ^^ may help
[18:26] <Adriannom> thanks popey
[18:29] <Adriannom> if lspci says "Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI" is it a rt61 card or an rt2500?
[18:30] <Adriannom> cause apparently rt61 shows up as "'Network controller: Ralink Unknown device 0301'"
[18:30] <Adriannom> :s
[19:17] <redtape-renegade> OT | Conference on right now :: http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Live/A
[19:18] <mungbean> anyone had experience of zinio reader on ubuntu?
[19:19] <mungbean> its an adobe air app
[19:19] <mungbean> and a complete fail
[19:20] <ikonia> mungbean: it's not designed for linux
[19:20] <mungbean> no, but its adobe air app
[19:20] <ikonia> yes, I thought air wasn't designed for linux
[19:21] <mungbean> yo ucan still use 2.6 version
[19:21] <ikonia> can use / not desigend
[19:22] <ikonia> I didn't think air was meant for linux
[19:22] <mungbean> yes it was, howver they stopped it recently
[19:22] <mungbean> this zinio stuff is a real fail..DRM sucks
[19:22] <mungbean> my tablet died and i wanted to read my magazines
[19:23] <mungbean> but it downloads them as encrypted pdfs but don't knwo the password
[19:27] <mungbean> do regular android apps work on android x86?
[19:30] <popey> if recompiled
[19:31] <popey> so "no" unless they're FLOSS
[19:32] <Myrtti> I thought Adobe Air for Linux was abandoned so long time ago that it's practically dead
[19:34] <mungbean> thanks popey :(
[19:34] <mungbean> Myrtti: this zinio magazine app is known to work with 2.6 air
[19:35] <ali1234> wat no
[19:35] <mungbean> on other platforms , and ubuntu anecdotally
[19:35] <ali1234> regular android apps work fine on android x86
[19:35] <ali1234> if they use NDK they don't
[19:35] <mungbean> ali1234: what's NDK please
[19:35] <ali1234> but most apps don't use that
[19:35] <ali1234> NDK = native development kit
[19:36] <mungbean> wondering whether to repurpose an old laptop as a magazine reader if the zinio app worked on android x86
[19:36] <SuperMatt> I seem to be having issues with the raring installer
[19:36] <popey> oh yeah
[19:36] <popey> duh
[19:36] <ali1234> a cheezy magazine reader should work fine
[19:36] <SuperMatt> it hangs on the second section
[19:36] <ali1234> high end 3D games probably not
[19:36] <popey> i guess some apps which are natively built wont
[19:36] <popey> yeah, like unity3d things
[19:37] <mungbean> i'd go and check but wifey in bed already
[19:37] <ali1234> yeah. i'm currently trying to build ogre for android
[19:37] <mungbean> and other laptop in the bedroom
[19:37] <ali1234> and SDL
[19:37] <ali1234> it all needs NDK obviously
[19:37] <mungbean> i'm pulling the baby shift 7-2am
[19:38] <ali1234> if you can figure out how to get access to market in the emulator, you can use that
[19:38] <ali1234> it needs hacks though
[19:38] <mungbean> ah
[19:38] <mungbean> nice idea, slow though right/
[19:38] <ali1234> not particularly
[19:38] <ali1234> again, not for a cheezy PDF reader
[19:39] <ali1234> i'm surprised how easily NDK builds work actually
[19:40] <ali1234> somewhat easier to cross build than win32
[19:40] <mungbean> everything would be easier if i could decrpyt these files
[19:40] <mungbean> which is gonna have to happen when the company closes down
[19:40] <ali1234> well never underestimate obvious tricks
[19:41] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh NDK is impressive - I built binutils as a library and tacked it onto an android app
[19:41] <penguin42> well part of it
[19:41] <ali1234> unpack apk, find -exec strings -n 10 \; > passwords.txt, pdfcrack -p passwords.txt my.pdf
[19:42] <ali1234> all commands made up but you get the idea
[19:43] <popey> i was pondering yesterday whether someone could "port" the ubuntu touch preview to the android emulator
[19:43] <ali1234> penguin42: probably i have is that the regular gcc based builds use configure or cmake and thus can build out of tree
[19:44] <popey> so people could test out all the bits on a "native" environment without having a device
[19:44] <ali1234> android build isn't set up to do that, so it messes up the source
[19:44] <mungbean> yeah, would try but my tablet has died containing the pdfs that are cached by the app
[19:44] <popey> mungbean: cant you re-download?
[19:44] <ali1234> popey: that should be very easy indeed
[19:44] <popey> ali1234: hope to it :D
[19:44] <mungbean> popey: maazine delivery is done via their crummy app
[19:44] <ali1234> popey: brunch goldfish
[19:44] <popey> would be really useful to have a script which built the filesystem for the emulator from the daily image
[19:45] <popey> mungbean: 10.04 vm, install air, win
[19:45] <ali1234> emulator is a unique machine type like all the others, it's called goldfish
[19:45] <ali1234> it has own kernel repos and etc
[19:45] <popey> oh, handy
[19:45] <popey> surprised nobody else thought to do this
[19:45] <ali1234> i don't think it is in cyanogen
[19:45] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't get on with cmake; configure from binutils was mostly ok with CC/CXX set to the ndk
[19:45] <popey> the emulator is quite chunky though
[19:45] <ali1234> i thought about it
[19:45] <popey> thought you might ☺
[19:46] <mungbean> popey: i'm purging air and retrying
[19:46] <ali1234> but i think about a lot of things and never do them
[19:46] <popey> me too
[19:46] <ali1234> i figure this is something that someone else will have to do at some point :P
[19:47] <ali1234> i've decided to concentrate on one project
[19:47] <ali1234> that project is finishing raceworld and then selling it
[19:47] <ali1234> hence why i am messing about with NDK
[19:47] <popey> super
[19:48] <ali1234> now when will we get NDK for ubuntu-touch? :P
[19:48] <penguin42> popey: You probably could get it to work on the Android one; but it might be easier to run it on the Linaro Qemu builds
[19:48] <popey> what's the N stand for?
[19:48] <ali1234> native
[19:49] <popey> ahh
[19:49] <popey> we'll allow native apps, sure
[19:49] <ali1234> yes but i need a toolchain
[19:49] <popey> yeah, not sure
[19:49] <ali1234> a proper one
[19:49] <popey> i expect that depend on demand
[19:49] <ali1234> not just "oh, you can install armv7-blahblah" from repos
[19:49] <ali1234> also documentation
[19:50] <ali1234> like how do you wrap native into an "app" that works properly with the phone shell
[19:50] <penguin42> ali1234: as far as the toolchain goes, can you just say what you want beyond installing the cross tools; I guess all the magic to setup the cross libraries etc
[19:51] <ali1234> for ubuntu-touch?
[19:51] <penguin42> nod
[19:51] <ali1234> i want a metapackage like ubuntu-sdk
[19:51] <ali1234> except called ubuntu-ndk
[19:51] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh fair enough
[19:52] <ali1234> and docs
[19:52] <ali1234> lots of docs and examples
[19:52] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh perhaps an example of how to glue some native code into it - I guess that's like adding new things into QML?
[19:52] <ali1234> yeah
[19:52] <ali1234> if that's the way to do it then so be it. examples please
[19:53] <ali1234> however OGRE will be using EGL
[19:53] <ali1234> Qt code should be a minimum
[19:53] <ali1234> if any is needed at all
[19:53] <ali1234> but i have no idea... so... docs please
[19:55] <penguin42> ali1234: I suspect also there is some required docs on what compiler options are required/allowed to work on all Ubuntu touch devices, and what you can rely on
[19:55] <ali1234> yes
[19:55] <ali1234> there's a lot of docs still needed
[19:56] <ali1234> not to worry though, i have plenty of work to do packaging this stuff up for windows and android
[19:56] <ali1234> then i have to actually finish writing the game
[19:57] <penguin42> ali1234: The other thing is android seems to have a few odd things that throw some builds - not quite posixy
[19:57] <ali1234> not a problem
[19:57] <ali1234> ogre and SDL are already "ported" to android
[19:57] <ali1234> the trouble is just figuring out how to combine them in a senseful way
[19:58] <ali1234> they can build individually but i need both in one project
[19:58] <ali1234> and the project also has to build for the other platforms
[19:58]  * penguin42 hands ali1234 a tube of epoxy and a ball of string
[19:58] <ali1234> then i throw it into build server
[19:58] <ali1234> since it's a game it's not using posix stuff
[19:58] <ali1234> not directly anyway
[19:58] <ali1234> OGRE does graphics, SDL does everything else
[19:59] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I can't quite remember what binutils stuff I hit it was just some normal stuff you might expect that was a bit different
[20:44] <Klettbar>  does anyone know if there are sshd seagate on the market now
[20:44] <Klettbar>  thin
[20:44] <Klettbar>  7mm
[20:44] <Klettbar>  sshd thin
[20:44] <Klettbar>  gen2 but thn
[20:44] <Klettbar> where can i post that question
[20:48] <popey> Klettbar: why do you need 7mm?
[20:49]  * mungbean boils a kettle for earth hour
[20:50] <popey> hah
[20:50] <mungbean> i'm watching dAS boot
[20:50] <mungbean> 4 hr version
[20:51]  * popey is catching up with dexter
[20:52] <mungbean> lt werner looks suspiciously like herr flick. and allo allo was 1 yr later
[20:52] <penguin42> mungbean: Dive!
[20:53] <mungbean> achtung!
[20:53] <popey> Ja!
[20:53] <mungbean> lots of gingers in this
[20:54] <Klettbar> laptop
[20:54] <popey> Klettbar: which laptop out of interest?
[20:54] <Klettbar> it requires 7mm
[20:54] <popey> so does mine, but a 9mm fits
[20:54] <Klettbar> it has shell to cushion
[20:54] <Klettbar> takes space
[20:54] <popey> same here
[20:55] <popey> I just didnt bother installing the rubber shell
[20:55] <Klettbar> with or without cushion
[20:55] <popey> what type of laptop is it?
[20:55] <Klettbar> panasonic cft7
[20:55] <popey> blimey, panasonic still make laptops!
[20:55] <Klettbar> now u can target me and shoot
[20:55] <Klettbar> old one
[20:55] <Klettbar> second hand
[20:56] <Klettbar> i know what yopu mean
[20:56] <Klettbar> you can remove the fancy shell
[20:56] <Klettbar> i think it would work well for ssd
[20:57] <popey> SSDs make everything better
[20:58] <Klettbar> actualy they are
[20:58] <Klettbar> 9.5 mm
[20:58] <popey> hurrah
[20:58] <Klettbar> it was crammed or without problem
[20:59] <popey> i just crammed a 9mm in the bay on my thinkpad x220
[20:59] <popey> works nicely
[20:59] <Klettbar> ssd or hdd
[21:00] <Klettbar> all ssd are mlc
[21:00] <Klettbar> i think they won't last years
[21:00] <Klettbar> not many
[21:00] <Klettbar> i need a criterion not to spend all life on this
[21:01] <Klettbar> what about tossing a coin
[21:01] <mungbean> how much u habe to invest?
[21:01] <mungbean> and is it i/o you need?
[21:02] <popey> i put an ssd in my x220
[21:02] <popey> well, two now
[21:02] <popey> Device Model:     OCZ-VERTEX3
[21:02] <popey> Device Model:     M4-CT256M4SSD3
[21:03] <Klettbar> how do u mean 2
[21:03] <popey> my laptop has an mSATA port
[21:03] <Klettbar> and mine?
[21:03]  * popey shrugs
[21:03] <popey> never seen your laptop ☺
[21:04] <neuro> my ploppenhammer hast ein scarf port!!
[21:05] <neuro> sorry, that's only really funny if said in a comedy German accent
[21:05] <neuro> or maybe Swedish
[21:05] <neuro> evenin mr popey
[21:06] <mungbean> i need gesture control when feeding baby :S
[21:06] <neuro> like a jedi?
[21:07] <mungbean> :)
[21:07] <mungbean> would be helpful. am peckish
[21:09] <Klettbar> how is swedish accent
[21:09] <mungbean> hurdy gurdy
[21:09] <neuro> sorry, ignore that; it was my attempt at being funny
[21:10] <neuro> my problem is that i haven't had a smoke in several hours and i'm getting a bit ... snfosngioengw.
[21:10] <mungbean> nic patches?
[21:10] <mungbean> ecigs?
[21:10] <neuro> pff
[21:10] <mungbean> expensive hobby man
[21:10] <Klettbar> You can insert the PC Card Type I (3.3 mm) or II (5.0 mm) to the PC Card slot.
[21:11] <neuro> this isn't an "i'm giving up cigs" haven't had a smoke, this is an "i'm too lazy to go to the shop" thing
[21:11] <Klettbar> The following types of card are not supported:
[21:11] <Klettbar> PC Card Type III, ZV card, SRAM card, FLASH ROM card (excluding ATA interface type), and other cards that require
[21:11] <Klettbar> 12V of operating voltage.
[21:11] <neuro> wow, pc cards?
[21:11] <mungbean> watched bladerunner final cut the other night
[21:11] <Klettbar> what can i do with pc card type II
[21:11] <mungbean> it rocked
[21:12] <mungbean> store your library card
[21:12] <penguin42> enhance, left ....
[21:12] <Klettbar> good idea
[21:12] <neuro> ohhh blade runner, how i wub thee
[21:12] <neuro> i have bought that movie so many times it's wrong
[21:13] <mungbean> the final cut was on at chrimstas
[21:13] <penguin42> Klettbar: PC Card's are just the new name for PCMCIA - I have a gigE card I found for 99p a few years ago (don't have any use for it - but I have the slot!)
[21:13] <mungbean> i already owned the dir cut
[21:13] <neuro> yup, i have that, twice
[21:13] <neuro> vhs + dvd
[21:13] <neuro> also original theatrical on vhs
[21:13] <penguin42> anyone on +1 who can try a libreoffice bug for me?
[21:13] <neuro> final cut on hd-dvd + blu ray
[21:14] <neuro> and i have the final cut 5 disc dvd tin thing
[21:14] <penguin42> neuro: But no betamax copy?
[21:14] <neuro> never had beta
[21:14] <neuro> i was a vhs kid
[21:14] <mungbean> neuro: with delted scenes and making of
[21:14] <penguin42> neuro: Well with hd-dvd....
[21:14] <neuro> hehe
[21:14] <mungbean> phil k Dick decided decker was not replicant, but ridley scott did
[21:15] <neuro> only reason i have anything in hd-dvd is because i picked up the drive for the xbox plus three discs for 25 quid in gamestation years ago
[21:15] <neuro> mungbean: advice: don't read the sequels
[21:15] <mungbean> nope
[21:15] <neuro> 3 of them, i think
[21:16] <mungbean> ooff
[21:16] <mungbean> i recorded the swedish versions of dargon tatto films
[21:16] <mungbean> realised they are awful
[21:16] <mungbean> delted them
[21:16] <neuro> yup, checked, 3: written by KW Jeter
[21:16] <mungbean> read the books. they are awful too. still read them
[21:17] <neuro> i read BR2
[21:17] <neuro> didn't think much of it
[21:17] <mungbean> life tip: don't read sequels by different authors
[21:17] <neuro> when i read about BR3 and 4, i thought "hmmm, na"
[21:17] <neuro> good tip
[21:17] <neuro> oh re: dragon tattoo, i liked both of them
[21:17] <ali1234> whaaaaaaat
[21:17] <mungbean> there's 3
[21:17] <neuro> .se and .us versions
[21:18] <mungbean> ah
[21:18] <neuro> haven't watched hornets nest or the other one yet
[21:18] <mungbean> watched the 1st.,the 2nd and 3rd were so dreary
[21:18] <mungbean> i deleted them without finishing
[21:18] <neuro> ali1234: whaaaaaaaaaat?!
[21:18] <neuro> mungbean: i don't think i've ever done that
[21:19] <Klettbar> ssd express cards
[21:19] <neuro> i always watch a movie to the end no matter what
[21:19] <ali1234> there are blade runner sequal novels?
[21:19] <Klettbar> i thin they ll be slower than sata
[21:19] <neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner#Possible_follow-ups
[21:19] <Klettbar> but if i find one for 99p
[21:19] <mungbean> neuro: not sure i'll get to end of das boot toinght
[21:20] <mungbean> a film must entertain, educate or inspire
[21:20] <mungbean> or make me laugh
[21:20] <mungbean> if none of those then in the bin
[21:20] <Klettbar> what i s+1 ppenguin
[21:20] <Klettbar> is +1
[21:20] <penguin42> Klettbar: Raring
[21:20] <neuro> Klettbar: express card can do 2.5Mbps
[21:20] <penguin42> Klettbar: I.e. the next ubuntu
[21:20] <mungbean> had a snooze around 5pm so i'm not sleeping till 2 at earliest toinght
[21:20] <neuro> errrr
[21:20] <neuro> Gbps, not Mbps
[21:20] <neuro> 2.5Gbps
[21:21] <neuro> penguin42: what's the animal again, I've forgotten?
[21:21] <mungbean> ringtail
[21:22] <neuro> bassariscus asutus
[21:22] <neuro> interesting
[21:23] <mungbean> today is the day for posting fake/doscredited photos on facebook
[21:23] <mungbean> e.g back to the future day, this van is blocked by bollards , etc
[21:23] <neuro> no, you're mistaking that with every day ever
[21:23] <mungbean> today in particular
[21:23] <neuro> pour quois?
[21:23] <mungbean> and my INTJ personality wants to correct them all
[21:24] <neuro> hehe
[21:24] <mungbean> so i do :(
[21:24] <neuro> i get snarked at for pointing at snopes and the like on facebook
[21:24] <mungbean> sometimes i wonder how i found a wife
[21:24] <neuro> "no, no, NO! just read this: <link to snopes> and it'll explain why what you've just posted is nonsense!"
[21:25] <mungbean> http://www.october212015.com/
[21:25] <ali1234> stop going on facebook
[21:25] <neuro> stop going on it?
[21:25] <mungbean> 7 days out of the womb and baby has a virus. thats faster than a win7 pc
[21:26] <neuro> ba dum tsh
[21:26] <Klettbar> stop turning on ur pc
[21:26] <Klettbar> get a life go out
[21:26] <neuro> uh oh
[21:26] <Klettbar> :)
[21:26] <mungbean> yeah its earth hour
[21:26] <mungbean> ive hardly left the house all week
[21:26] <neuro> Klettbar: you realise I can access Facebook from the outside?
[21:27] <neuro> is it earth hour *right now*?
[21:28] <Klettbar> what's a such earth hour
[21:28] <popey> no idea
[21:28] <neuro> or did i miss it again?
[21:28] <Klettbar> left the mouse..you mean?
[21:28] <neuro> Klettbar: http://www.earthhour.org/
[21:29] <mungbean> some gimmick
[21:29] <neuro> cripes, it *is* right now
[21:29] <mungbean> finish in 1 min
[21:30] <sebsebseb> if anyone
[21:30] <neuro> ok, now, not so much
[21:30] <sebsebseb> wants to see RMS talk live, from Libre Planet, now is your chance
[21:30] <popey> Using only free codecs!
[21:30] <neuro> aieeeeeeeee
[21:30] <sebsebseb> popey: yeah the video is in a free format :d
[21:30] <neuro> the bearded one!
[21:30] <mungbean> rms is the every time isnt he?
[21:30]  * sebsebseb met RMS on Thursday, talked to him breifly as well,  coudn't get his signature got refused heh heh
[21:30] <neuro> right, mention of rms is definitely enough to make me want a cig, bbiab
[21:31] <popey> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Live
[21:31] <sebsebseb> popey: yep and the IRC channels of course
[21:33] <mungbean> rms just losst me
[21:33] <popey> hahahaha crapstore
[21:33] <popey> SO FUNNY!
[21:33] <mungbean> called it the crApp Store
[21:33] <popey> (not)
[21:34] <mungbean> eejit
[21:34] <sebsebseb> popey: yeah, but your from a commerical distro to :d heh heh
[21:34] <mungbean> i might do that in the pub occasionnally but im not a global "ambassador!"
[21:34] <popey> sebsebseb: and?
[21:34] <sebsebseb> popey: not saying I am agaisnt software stores though
[21:35] <ali1234> apps store *are* crap though
[21:35] <mungbean> i think its the aspergers in rms that compels him to do it
[21:35] <sebsebseb> mungbean: what makes you think he has Aspergers?
[21:35] <mungbean> all the signs
[21:36] <sebsebseb> such as?
[21:37] <mungbean> poor social skills, lack of tact or empathy, fixation around a particular cause, strongly polarised vuews, insistence on the gnu/linux, the RIDER, and the toe nail thing
[21:37] <ali1234> empathy isn't the same thing as sympathy
[21:38] <ali1234> just saying
[21:38] <mungbean> correct
[21:38] <mungbean> lack of empathy means he would walk into a room and turn up the air con without regard for anyone already there
[21:39] <ali1234> no, because he might well know what he is doing and just not care
[21:39] <mungbean> or demand things from everyone else to act in a certain way
[21:39] <mungbean> yes, lack of empathy
[21:39] <sebsebseb> popey: DRM should be illegal?
[21:40] <sebsebseb> do you think so?
[21:40] <popey> sebsebseb: hmm?
[21:40] <mungbean> because if he's cold then he should think - how about others, are they comfortable now?
[21:40] <sebsebseb> popey: or do you think it's good that it's on driving thorey CD's for example
[21:40] <sebsebseb> popey: oh your not watching it anymore?
[21:40] <ali1234> why?
[21:40] <popey> i am watching / listening while making pancakes
[21:40] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[21:40] <popey> but I dont quite understand why you're asking me that
[21:41] <popey> and damnit I have run out of flour
[21:41] <sebsebseb> popey: since what he said his opinion
[21:41] <sebsebseb> I was wondering about yours
[21:41] <popey> my opinion doesn't matter
[21:42] <ali1234> neither does RMS
[21:42] <ali1234> but here we are
[21:43] <popey> and what a great success the openmoko was
[21:44] <mungbean> rms is a necessary boundary at the extreme miitant end of the free software spectrum
[21:44] <popey> oh this will be good
[21:44] <ali1234> i get kind of tired of hearing how terrible RMS is and how he does nothing for free software from people who do absolutely nothing for free software
[21:45] <popey> parabolic antenna on your head
[21:45] <sebsebseb> ali1234: he woudn't give me his signature since. wasn't asking for it in a very good way
[21:45] <sebsebseb> ali1234: ,but after seeing his talk on Thursday, and then chatting to him breifly after
[21:45] <sebsebseb> well he seems ok
[21:45] <mungbean> if rms didnt exist they would gave to invent him
[21:49] <mungbean> "DO NOT WRITE ON DOORS"
[21:49] <mungbean> subliminal message
[21:53] <mungbean> anything good in the kindle book sale?
[21:54] <ali1234> "RMS sets a terrible example for FOSS movement. now excuse me while i go buy DRM ebooks from amazon and play angry birds on my iphone"
[21:54] <popey> hah
[21:54] <sebsebseb> ali1234: not FOSS as such
[21:54] <sebsebseb> ali1234: he's  free software
[21:54] <sebsebseb> ali1234: he doesn't like the term open source
[21:55] <sebsebseb> he doesn't like the word open in general
[21:55] <penguin42> sebsebseb: It's often misused in the way that 'democratic' is misued in country names
[21:56] <ali1234> but free software is by definition open source, so i don't care what he thinks
[21:56] <sebsebseb> more like free software and open source are similar
[21:56] <sebsebseb> free software is more about the moral advantages gained by the code being availalbe
[21:56] <sebsebseb> open source is more of a development model, and started by corporate people etc to save mone yetc
[21:56] <sebsebseb> plus if you say free people think price usauly
[21:56] <mungbean> ali1234: if you're talking about me, i never said that
[21:56] <sebsebseb> not free as in freedom, and then what that means
[21:57] <ali1234> mungbean: no i'm more having a dig at popey :)
[21:57] <mungbean> i think RMS is a necessary character, and also a bit of a jerk sometimes
[21:57] <sebsebseb> open source can be clearer to explain for those reasons though
[21:57] <popey> ☺
[21:57] <daubers> so I want to run a project management thing with versioning on a server at home, other than Trac, does anyone have any suggestions of software to use?
[21:57] <mungbean> he's undiplomatic and there could be a better ambassador in his place
[21:58] <sebsebseb> mungbean: he's 60 now
[21:58] <mungbean> but as a spokesman for digital freedom, then the message needs to be out there
[21:58] <mungbean> DRM sucks
[21:58] <mungbean> as indicated by my zinio problems earlier
[21:59] <shauno> zinio can die in fire :/
[21:59] <mungbean> but we have 2 choices, 1) don't buy 2) buy reluctantly (and maybe complain) but until there's 3) use a free vendor then what to do?
[21:59] <ali1234> there are plenty of people who are much better "ambassadors"
[21:59] <ali1234> for example jim zemlin
[22:00] <sebsebseb> ali1234: Linus Torvalds doesn't impress me with his swearing
[22:00] <mungbean> well he can be a jerk too
[22:00] <mungbean> so can I
[22:00] <ali1234> he's not out to impress anyone
[22:00] <sebsebseb> ali1234: I don't think you need to swear like he does, publically
[22:01] <ali1234> i am an adult and i can deal with it
[22:01] <sebsebseb> ali1234: sure, but still
[22:01] <mungbean> scandies tend to swear a LOT
[22:01] <mungbean> in my experience
[22:01] <sebsebseb> mungbean:not so sure about that, as a half Sweed
[22:01] <sebsebseb> altough lived in England most of my life so
[22:02] <ali1234> and here's another hot topic
[22:02] <mungbean> ali1234: is he back on? i closed it
[22:02] <sebsebseb> mungbean: sound gone off
[22:02] <sebsebseb> on it
[22:02] <sebsebseb> people moving about still though
[22:04] <ali1234> mungbean: no, criticism of linus
[22:04] <popey> where "hot topic" means "things that annoy ali1234"?
[22:04] <ali1234> yes
[22:05] <popey> ok
[22:05] <ali1234> things that usually turn into an argument
[22:05] <sebsebseb> ali1234: Linus  is so so speical, really?  no not quite
[22:05] <ali1234> this whole "nerds have bad social skills" meme
[22:05] <ali1234> it's not true
[22:05] <sebsebseb> ali1234: I guess we would have been using Hurd instead if L inux hadn't come along
[22:05] <sebsebseb> for a start
[22:05] <sebsebseb> or BSD maybe?
[22:06] <penguin42> sebsebseb: Yeh sure the Hurd will be ready by 2038...
[22:06] <sebsebseb> and LInus fusses a lot about which desktop envrionment he is using and such publically
[22:06] <sebsebseb> as well
[22:06] <sebsebseb> and what disro at times ossbily even
[22:06] <mungbean> not surprised
[22:06] <ali1234> so what?
[22:06] <sebsebseb> which people generally like following, but yeah there we go he's like the rest of us for that
[22:06] <sebsebseb> like the rest of us, he has to pick a distro, and what to use in it
[22:06] <ali1234> that's what a normal person would do
[22:06] <mungbean> if i was linus i would be annoyed at the gnome guys
[22:06] <shauno> it's getting there.  hurd actually has sata support now!
[22:07] <sebsebseb> mungbean: GNOME 3.8 has some itneresting improvement it seemsems
[22:07] <sebsebseb> going by sites etc
[22:07] <sebsebseb> I trieed to vm a development ISO ,but issues, reminds I will try  again with the later one
[22:07] <sebsebseb> I guess
[22:07] <mungbean> if so, then its a U turn
[22:07] <sebsebseb> or just burn to CD, anyway March 27th is final release
[22:08] <mungbean> elementary desktop ticks all my boxes now
[22:08] <ali1234> the problem is that people like linus and RMS have been elevated to personalities by the people currently trying to push "openness"
[22:09] <mungbean> in the same way as gnome2+docky used to
[22:09] <ali1234> shock horror, they're just normal people with opinions and bad habits
[22:09] <mungbean> yes
[22:09] <sebsebseb> ali1234: they get looked up to etc, if that's what you mean
[22:09] <popey> ahhh docky
[22:09] <popey> and awn
[22:09] <popey> happy days
[22:09] <sebsebseb> ali1234: people are like, oh wo LInus does thsi, oh wow RMS does that
[22:09] <sebsebseb> ali1234: if that's what you mean?
[22:09] <ali1234> yes. why do people do that?
[22:10] <mungbean> role models
[22:10] <sebsebseb> ali1234: indeed he's like anyone else really, when not doing his software stuff if you like
[22:10] <sebsebseb> ali1234: RMS that is
[22:10] <sebsebseb> I mean I met him on Thursday saw a talk and etc as I already put
[22:10] <mungbean> where was that sebsebseb
[22:10] <sebsebseb> Bath
[22:11] <sebsebseb> University
[22:11] <mungbean> i was gonna say
[22:11] <sebsebseb> what you knew about that or?
[22:11] <mungbean> doesn't look like he's had one
[22:11] <sebsebseb> uh been to uni as a student you mean or?
[22:12] <mungbean> no i was just making obvious joke about baths and RMS
[22:12] <ali1234> does anyone remember that harry enfield sketch?
[22:12] <mungbean> i like how there's a book called "get rich blogging"
[22:12] <ali1234> "you don't want to do it like that"
[22:13] <mungbean> page 1 : write a book about blogging, and sell it
[22:13] <mungbean> get rich stuffing envelopes: send £10 in an envelope to this address
[22:13] <ali1234> people who criticise open source are just like that guy
[22:14] <mungbean> what u mean criticise open source?
[22:14] <mungbean> the devs or the dev model, or the actual software
[22:14] <ali1234> the people who say "RMS/linus are terrible role models"
[22:15] <mungbean> well, everyone's an armchair football manager
[22:15] <mungbean> they can all pick a team better than arsene wenger
[22:15] <ali1234> where were they 15 years ago when free software was not trendy?
[22:15] <mungbean> or so they thinik
[22:16] <mungbean> mac is trendy, is OSS?
[22:17] <ali1234> yes, extremely
[22:17] <popey> compared to 15 years ago, yes
[22:17] <popey> Oh, are we still having a dig at me btw?
[22:17] <ali1234> massively so
[22:17] <popey> (just so I know)
[22:17] <mungbean> must be the drink talking
[22:17] <ali1234> popey: sort of :)
[22:18] <popey> ok
[22:18]  * popey thinks back 15 years
[22:18] <mungbean> i was installing my first distro 15 years ago
[22:18] <mungbean> on a corporate server \o/
[22:18] <ali1234> were you complaining abut linus and RMS back then?
[22:18] <ali1234> if so, you turned out to be wrong
[22:19] <mungbean> i'm not complaining about them. (not sure if aimed at popey ornot)
[22:19] <popey> I was working on SAP
[22:19] <popey> I think.
[22:20] <ali1234> and another thing
[22:20] <mungbean> i noticed a windows8 for dummies. onthe front cover it said "20 books in 1 book". no , they are chapters you dummy
[22:21] <ali1234> sexism in computing
[22:21] <ali1234> another hot topic
[22:21] <mungbean> lol at whats coming
[22:21] <mungbean> that story
[22:21] <mungbean> my guess is she was anti beard. they were the only beareded guys
[22:21] <ali1234> i content that this is a problem which has been brought by the newcomers
[22:22] <shauno> 15 years ago, I was still using linux on the desktop  (in the losest sense, sans-X, but it was my desktop)
[22:22] <ali1234> 15 years ago free software was only for the people so uncool that nobody cared what they thought or did
[22:22] <mungbean> the most sexist guys at my workplace are the neckbeards. anecdotal evidence only
[22:23] <mungbean> one of them has been trolling and being sexist for the last 40 years
[22:23] <mungbean> not just jokes but he truly believes the girl in the team is incapable of advanced tasks
[22:23]  * popey wonders if ali1234  is on the linux elitest mailing list
[22:23] <penguin42> hey just because I have a mile long beard it doesn't make me sexist
[22:23] <mungbean> so gives her the tedious stuff and keeps the interesting stuff for him and his chubby mate
[22:24] <ali1234> popey: i am not elite enough to know what the mailing list is
[22:24] <mungbean> one of the neckbeards is clean shaven
[22:24] <ali1234> but this is kind of the problem
[22:24] <ali1234> suddenly, if you were using linux 15 years ago, you are elite
[22:24] <ali1234> 15 years ago it meant you were a sad git
[22:24] <ali1234> what changed?
[22:24] <popey> http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
[22:24] <ali1234> not the sad gits that's for sure
[22:24] <ali1234> and i'm not sure why anyone thinks they would
[22:25] <mungbean> if you were using linux 15 years ago it was because sun boxes were expensive :P
[22:25] <penguin42> hmm, lets see I think 19 years here :-)
[22:25] <ali1234> like, to expect them to suddenly turn into rock stars is ... well, why would anyone expect that?
[22:25] <mungbean> RMS has a rock star li8festyle, sleeping on couches and international flight to gigs
[22:25] <mungbean> just don't buy him a parrot
[22:26] <ali1234> we should start sending him toy parrots
[22:26] <ali1234> LOADS of them
[22:26] <mungbean> rock stars and footballers are the wprst role models
[22:26] <ali1234> wouldn't it be funny if every day he got like 100 stuffed parrot toys delivered?
[22:26] <mungbean> and politicians are worse still
[22:27] <ali1234> anyway, model citizens let's say
[22:28] <popey> 1002:68b8 - whats the best driver to use for those?
[22:28] <popey> ATI card
[22:28] <popey> on ubuntu 12.04
[22:29] <mungbean> 129 for a kindle fire, thats dirt cheap
[22:29] <mungbean> oh, 139 without ads
[22:30] <mungbean> hate the UI though
[22:32] <ali1234> nobody actually posts on linux-elitists
[22:32] <ali1234> this does not really surprise me in that old school linux users are not elitist at all
[22:32] <ali1234> they generally don't attempt to impose unrealistic standards of behaviour on each other
[22:33] <ali1234> and in fact generally could not care less what anyone else does
[22:35] <mungbean> launcher takes so long to launch, if i accidentally hit super-tab instead of alt-tab, i think my cimputer is frozen
[22:51] <bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
[22:52] <mungbean> ciao
[22:52] <popey> yo
[22:57] <bigcalm> Slept from 6 to 9.30. Missed tea. What do I do now?
[22:58] <mungbean> fry  up
[22:58]  * bigcalm drinks more from his ale
[23:01] <bigcalm> Mmmm, tempting
[23:01] <bigcalm> Don't think my better half would approve though
[23:05] <shauno> you slept until beer o'clock.  and now you worry about your SO approval rating?
[23:06] <mungbean> i just had tinned strawbs and choc custard
[23:11] <mungbean> oohh, zinio reader now working with an older adobe air 2.5 version
[23:11] <mungbean> can't find the downloaded pdfs though
[23:49] <MooDoo> evening all
[23:50] <neuro> I HAVE CIGARETTES \o/
[23:50] <neuro> i caught a bit of rms before i went out
[23:51] <neuro> saw the "crap store" dig too
[23:51] <MooDoo> did Tim Cook kill a kitten ;)
[23:51] <neuro> to me it's like a 12 year old saying "MICRO$OFT", it's childish
[23:52] <neuro> MooDoo: nah, just rms being his usual self
[23:52] <MooDoo> he'll never change
[23:52] <neuro> remember, this is the guy who basically said "i'm not happy that Steve Jobs is dead, but I'm happy he's gone"
[23:53] <MooDoo> yeah I remember
[23:53] <neuro> i know he'll never change
[23:53] <neuro> i just hope that he becomes less relevant
[23:53] <neuro> i'm not even sure what rms actually does these days, other than roam the planet attempting to evangelise
[23:54] <MooDoo> think you hit the nail on the head
[23:54] <neuro> there are hundreds, if not thousands of better evangelists than him in the floss community, and they all *do* stuff *as well as* evangelise
[23:54] <neuro> they actually contribute constructively
[23:54] <neuro> either by talking, coding, shepherding or writing
[23:55] <neuro> or supporting
[23:55] <neuro> i never see evidence of rms doing this now
[23:55] <MooDoo> he just walks, talks and occasionally plays the recorder lol
[23:55] <neuro> it's a shame, as what he built is an epic thing
[23:55] <neuro> don't forget the hard disk platter on the head
[23:56] <MooDoo> well he'll never be forgotten that's for sure
[23:56] <neuro> oh absolutely
[23:57] <neuro> imagine if linux had been developed under, say, a BSD licence
[23:57] <shauno> that's why I quit donating to the fsf.  feels like they just troll now
[23:57] <neuro> not sure it would have managed to attract as much attention as it has
[23:57] <mungbean> can anyone see inside thiss file? http://ubuntuone.com/3AG5RuI3DeDR9LE0dN1YhP
[23:57] <mungbean> it's a page from zinio magazine
[23:57] <mungbean> allegedly a swf but i'm not sure
[23:58] <MooDoo> people will eventually stop listening....
[23:58] <mungbean> the app saves a low res jpg and then when u zoom it uses something else
[23:58] <neuro> wget says it's application/x-shockwave-flash
[23:58] <neuro> chrome just gives me a blank page
[23:59] <MooDoo> same in FF
[23:59] <neuro> i presume it's an swf loaded by a master flash app
[23:59] <mungbean> yeah me too
[23:59] <mungbean> sucks
[23:59] <neuro> strings just throws out garbage