/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/24/#ubuntu-uk.txt

mungbeanencrypted?00:00
MooDoook night all, suppose i better go to bed seeing as I'm at work tomorrow :D00:00
mungbeani have a crypto key00:00
shaunodoesn't look like flash to me.  or if it is, they've altered it00:01
neuroi think it's data to be used by a flash app, rather than standalone00:01
mungbeanthe android app simply has encrypted pdfs00:01
neuroshauno: the nail in the coffin for me, as far as the FSF are concerned, was that defective by design campaign where they advocated swamping Apple Store Genius Bars with appointments00:02
mungbeanit must be a pdf somewhere00:02
shaunofor a flash file, the first three characters should be FWS.  this has ZNO, which sounds like it may not be coincidentally close to zinio00:02
mungbeanooh00:03
=== Dave is now known as Dave2
mungbeantelegraph are reporting on the chinonical story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9948817/China-develops-national-open-source-operating-system.html00:23
shaunoeh, they've done this before, with little effect.  'red flag linux' was based off redhat instead00:25
penguin42shauno: With little effect - was it not much used internally either?00:38
shaunoonly seems to have been used places they could force it by mandate00:39
shaunobut for the big picture, windows is essentially free software there still00:40
shaunoif they want to actually make a difference, they have to attack it from both directions.  make a decent push against piracy, and offer a good alternative00:41
penguin42nod00:59
penguin42shauno: And with Ubuntu tending to be excellent in i18n I'd hope there is very little to do to actually make it work well in Chinese?00:59
shaunocouldn't tell you, haven't used it as a desktop since .. 8.06?01:01
ali1234gnome-panel #neverquit #yolo #swag01:02
ali1234hatersgonnahate.gif01:02
shaunonah, none of that. the timing was more apple's move to intel01:03
ali1234ls01:06
ali1234ARGH01:06
ali1234i wish gnome-terminal would hide the cursor when window is not active01:07
shaunomine changes to a 'hollow' cursor.  frequently isn't enough either :/01:09
ali1234i'm sure mine used to01:09
ali1234in fact i'm sure it used to be an option01:09
ali1234rebuilding... over and over again01:14
ali1234grumbleg grumble minw32 cross compiler is broken...01:40
ali1234http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21913847 i half expected horse03:01
popeymorning07:46
SuperMattthis morning I want to stab X07:47
SuperMattbecause I can't have 3 screens on two graphics cards using one X session :(07:47
redtape-renegademorning all07:50
redtape-renegadeSuperMatt, & popey Didn't Azelphur have a picture of Ubuntu having use on 3 screens using his new table setup recently ?07:52
redtape-renegadeor was that the joke ?07:52
SuperMattI'm sure he did it, but you need a graphics card with three outputs07:56
SuperMattI have two with two each07:56
MartijnVdSformula 1 time!07:57
MartijnVdS<Turns on radio>07:57
MartijnVdSI can only watch it in German, unless I pay €15/month for the "sports" package...08:05
redtape-renegadeMartijnVdS, Can't you stick some tin foil in the sky socket, or something to fix it ?08:13
SuperMattyou know what's interesting? I've used a lot of command line tools to get stuff done in ubuntu, that I've often missed improvements in desktop tools08:16
popeyMartijnVdS: its not on bbc1?08:18
popeyah no08:18
popeyredtape-renegade: Azelphur has lots of screens08:21
redtape-renegadepopey, Yes I do recall watching his desk album unfold on dropbox a while ago .. I hope he got all he wanted out of it.08:42
* redtape-renegade wonders if B&Q will be open today [??]08:57
popeyour local one is on sunday08:58
redtape-renegadethey never update their website about the weather affecting opening hours ;(08:58
redtape-renegadepopey, they're own by KingFisher aren't they ?08:59
redtape-renegade***owned . by08:59
popeyhah08:59
popeyB&Q Advert just came on the radio08:59
redtape-renegadewhat station ?08:59
popeya local one here08:59
redtape-renegadein farnham ?09:00
popeylondon09:00
redtape-renegadeoh . that could be Capital , idunno.09:00
redtape-renegadenews should be on now anyway.09:00
popeyheart09:00
redtape-renegadeahh .. you speak the language of the the Cree09:01
popeyi try to avoid commercial radio09:01
popeybut on sunday mornings radio 2 and radio 4 are full of religious nonsense09:01
redtape-renegadeyep, our local one is going mental over 9 inches of snow ! It's major news.09:02
redtape-renegadeYay.. an ICT university in Douglas !09:03
redtape-renegadepopey , How was your Earth Hour at 8.30pm last night .. Did the earth shatter for you [sic] ??09:06
popeyi had no idea it was earth hour until mungbean mentioned it09:07
redtape-renegadeyeah, thought so. It was buzy on this channel last night, I see.09:08
kvarleyProbably a bad place to ask, but does anybody here know Access?09:08
redtape-renegadeisn't that for kids ?09:09
kvarleylol, yes09:09
kvarleyfixed my issue09:09
kvarleyI hate Access with a passion - just required to use it for uni09:09
redtape-renegadekvarley, Surely, You want to use the free Oracle one / package don't you ?09:10
kvarleyredtape-renegade: I have to use Access because that's what they'll mark it on09:10
redtape-renegade'they' ?09:10
kvarleythe tutors09:10
redtape-renegadeof where ?09:11
kvarleyUniversity09:11
redtape-renegadeof where ?09:11
redtape-renegadei gio to university all the time .. its called My World ^_^09:12
redtape-renegadeAaaw my stomach is killing me .. must be the Eggs I had .09:18
redtape-renegadeit keeps taking to me like some monster off Classic DooM.09:19
* redtape-renegade kills the Mancubus with porridge, syrup and sultana's. | http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Mancubus09:25
MartijnVdSTime to play around with the rpi a bit more! :)10:01
brobostigongood morning everyone,10:48
MartijnVdShi brobostigon10:48
brobostigonmorning MartijnVdS10:49
kvarley\010:49
brobostigonmorning kvarley10:50
kvarleyHow's it going?10:50
brobostigoncould be better. and you?10:50
kvarleySame, currently dealing with Microsoft Access for a uni project10:51
brobostigon:(10:51
kvarleyIt's an uphill struggle, they ignore standards and make stuff purposely hard to do10:51
MartijnVdSkvarley: it's easy as long as you have ALL the MS tools and use ONLY those10:51
MartijnVdSoh wow.. this _older_ (& slower) SD card is actually more responsive than the new/Class 10 card10:52
kvarleyMartijnVdS: Ok, two things that really annoy me so far. 1) Once you've made your relationships you can't change the tables at all without removing the relationships. 2) For some reason -1 = Yes10:52
MartijnVdSkvarley: -1 = not 0 = true ;)10:53
kvarleyMartijnVdS: But hnaibguadgkldgjdksh10:53
kvarleylol10:53
MartijnVdSkvarley: I agree, just trying to find a way of thinking in which it would make sense :)10:54
kvarleyMartijnVdS: Makes sense, but still .. They crazy10:55
kvarleyIs there a IRC channel for the touch part of the OS?10:55
kvarleyAh, got it10:55
=== brobosti1on is now known as brobostigon
kvarleyIs there a better tablet to get other than the Nexus 10? I'm looking to run Ubuntu when it gets more stable14:42
kvarleyCan't find anything that beats it on it's I/O, display and processor in one package. They all seem to do them seperately14:43
popeyI'd wait till Google IO, see what gets announced14:50
ali1234nexus 10 is a premium item. so is the new chromebook.14:51
ali1234you won't find anything better, except perhaps whatever replaces them :)14:51
kvarleypopey: When is google i/o? My tablet died yesterday :(15:04
kvarleyali1234: do you have one? :)15:04
ali1234no15:05
kvarleyDo you thin I should get a keyboard + touchpad bluetooth setup or just a bluetooth keyboard?15:05
ali1234no point15:15
ali1234just get a tablet15:16
popeykvarley: you had a kindle fire?15:20
popeywhy not file a support request?15:20
Azelphurgah, tax people are crazy, they are trying to say bitcoin trading is subject to VAT15:27
popeywhy would it not be?15:33
ali1234http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm#915:39
ali1234that's why15:39
ali1234"Financial services including the issue, transfer or receipt                  of, or dealing with money, securities for money or orders for                  the payment of money"15:39
ali1234VAT exempt15:39
Azelphurindeed, it should be15:40
Azelphurpopey: on that basis high volume traders would have to pay 20%, which is just totally unprofitable in financial tradings15:40
ali1234"The issue, transfer or dealing with a security" - VAT exempt15:40
Azelphurthe profit margin is 5%ish, asking us to pay 20% would be -15% profit, time to shut down and no tax for anybody.15:40
ali1234you need a better accountant15:41
ali1234and probably a better lawyer when it ends up in court, which it will15:41
Azelphurhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/wmpjyym7xztqygx/IMG_20130324_131647.jpg is what HMRC are saying15:41
Azelphur(letter to one of the other uk traders, not me)15:42
kvarleypopey: I had a first gen fire from america15:42
kvarleySo I can't claim on warranty15:42
ali1234Azelphur: that letter doesn't say whether you have o pay VAT on bitcoin trades or not15:42
ali1234it just says you have to be VAT registered15:42
Azelphuroh, ok15:43
ali1234that is different15:43
Azelphurcrisis averted maybe ;)15:43
ali1234well, it says in their opinion bitcoins are vouchers15:43
ali1234which are not exempt15:43
ali1234but that's just their opinion15:44
Azelphuryea15:44
Azelphurthey obviously arn't vouchers xD15:44
ali1234why is it obvious?15:44
ali1234i mean HMRC are going to say whatever they can to get more money15:45
ali1234what's the counter argument?15:45
AzelphurVoucher: A small printed piece of paper that entitles the holder to a discount or that may be exchanged for goods or services.15:45
ali1234yep i agree they are not vouchers, actually15:45
ali1234since vouchers are backed by a single entity15:46
Azelphurindeed15:46
ali1234and have a fixed value denominated in some other currency15:46
ali1234now, are you willing to go to court over it?15:46
AzelphurI think most of the UK traders would be, between us we have quite a bit of clout15:47
ali1234then, have fun15:47
Azelphur\o/15:47
ali1234and get a lawyer15:47
Azelphurthat said, if it does go that far, I am so going to make the point that it's ridiculous that they are punishing us for trying to pay them xD15:48
DJonesPossibly if trading in Bitcoinswhere subject to VAT, it would only be the fee that was liable to VAT anyway, so if the profit margin was 5%, you'd need to be trading in about £1.5M of bitcoins to generate total commission of £75000 before you'd get anywhere near the vat registration threshold15:48
Azelphurscumbag azelphur, tries to do the right thing, ends up in court.15:48
ali1234djones raises a good point15:48
ali1234this stuff is complicated15:48
ali1234this is why you need a good accountant and a good lawyer15:48
AzelphurDJones: I thought VAT was on volume rather than profit15:48
DJonesUNless they deemed it purchasing bitcoins and reselling them at a profit15:49
Azelphurif they want 20% of my /profit/ that's absolutely possible, I can do that15:49
Azelphurif they want 20% of the value of everything I trade, that's impossible because it's about 4x what I earn15:49
Azelphurbut yea, I'm gonna get an accountant to fix this for me15:50
DJonesAzelphur: It depends how it was decided, if you buy goods/services & resell them at a profit (eg a shop) then you'd be able to claim the vat you pay on buying the goods & have to declare the vat on the selling price15:50
Azelphurhopefully, anyway :)15:50
AzelphurDJones: yea, but even then, 20% is just impossible15:51
Azelphurthe margin between my buy and sell is around 5%15:51
Azelphurdefinitely gonna get my own accountant though, see what I can do with it15:52
DJonesYou'd need a good accountant & lawyer (and probably barrister as well) if they pushed the argument that they were vouchers15:52
Azelphur\o/15:52
* DJones see's £'s disappearing from Azelphur's wallet15:52
Azelphurindeed :(15:52
Azelphurat least (in theory) the cost would be shared between all of us15:53
ali1234http://www.ukgcva.co.uk/downloads/factsheets/fs_vat.pdf15:54
ali1234“face-value voucher” means atoken, stamp or voucher (whether in physical orelectronic form) that represents a right to receivegoods or services to the value of an amountstated on it or recorded in it.15:55
Azelphuryep, it doesn't fit that definition either15:55
ali1234retailer vouchers - These are face value vouchers where the issuerand redeemer of the goods and services is thesame person. On retailer vouchers, VAT isaccounted for on the value at which thevoucher is sold, at the point of redemption.15:55
ali1234so that does not fit15:55
Azelphuryea15:55
ali1234and even if it did, not vat until it is redeemed15:56
Azelphurhehe15:56
ali1234if it is a credit voucher however, "VAT is accounted for on the full facevalue of the voucher, at the point the voucher isredeemed"15:57
ali1234so what is the face value of a bitcoin?15:57
Azelphurthere isn't a face value of a bitcoin xD15:57
ali1234well, this is the angle here. they don't have a face value15:59
Azelphurindeed16:00
ali1234if you never redeem the vouchers, i don't see why you ever have to pay vat16:00
Azelphurthere's also a hilarious point that you can never find out whether a bitcoin has been redeemed due to the nature of the system16:00
AzelphurxD16:00
ali1234yes, it can never be "redeemed"16:01
Azelphuroh yea, that's a good point, it never can be redeemed lol16:01
DJonesThat could be a double edged sword though, most "goods for sale" don't have a "face value" and a business selling them would charge vat on them on sale16:01
ali1234well, none of us knows the answer that's for sure16:02
ali1234in fact nobody does16:02
ali1234the laws just don't cover it16:02
Azelphuryea16:02
Azelphurhopefully I'll get some better answers from an accountant16:02
ali1234depends if they are any good or not16:02
AzelphurxD16:03
DJonesAzelphur: http://btclag.org/?p=1616:03
ali1234even if you consider it a voucher i don't see that you have to pay VAT, unless it is used to purchase goods, and then VAT is due on the value of the goods16:05
DJonesOther things to consider, if its treated as a currency, you would probably need to register with the Financial Services Authorities and have to comply with money laundering regulations16:06
Azelphuryea, we expect to need to follow AML stuff16:07
DJoneshttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66774.2016:07
DJonesPost 32 might be worthing looking at16:08
Azelphuryea, I'm buying and selling rather than brokering :(16:08
DJonesThat does seem to play into the HMRC's hands in a way, if you buy from a private individual, they couldn't charge you vat (which you'd be able to reclaim) but when you sold, you'd have to pay vat at 20% on the sale price (Always assuming that bitcoins ended up being classed as vatable)16:11
DJonesBag of worms springs to mind16:12
Azelphurhehe16:13
Azelphurimo it's no different to playing forex16:13
Azelphuror being a currency exchange and taking a %, they sure as hell don't take 20% on exchange xD16:13
DJonesPersonally, I'd agree with that assessment, but its tax authorities and whether it is a true currency16:14
Azelphuryea16:15
daubersWeeeeeeeeeeeeee, my raspberry pi works16:24
newbie45sdf16:27
daubersSo, are private github accounts worth the $7 a month?16:31
kvarleyThis is a helpful message Google "Currency fluctuations and bank fees may affect the final amount charged to you."16:39
kvarleyI'm being charged in GBP16:39
kvarleySo no idea what charges they mean16:39
meetdoes pidgin integrate with unity as well as empathy does?18:15
SuperEngineero/19:25
SuperEngineerThinking of trying Mutt19:25
SuperEngineer..should I go for plain Mutt [Ubuntu supported] or mutt-patched [unsupported]?19:26
sebsebsebhi19:39
SuperEngineero/19:43
mungbean\o19:49
popeyEvening19:49
popeymungbean: decided what to do about your tablet?19:49
mungbean:( i ordered a new charger, will find out in couple of days19:49
mungbeanif not, then will try the tpdebricker19:50
mungbeanwhich is risky, especially if not bricked19:50
mungbeanif both fail then i will cry and buy a nex7, although i like 10 inch tablet19:50
mungbeanbut we are single income family and all ££ goes to home, hence tech budget is low19:51
mungbeanwondering which film to watch tonight. das boot only lasted 1hr until i got bored19:51
mungbeani span up adnroidx86 to try zinio reader on it, but is crashy19:51
penguin42mungbean: Perhaps you just needed to come up for air?19:52
mungbeani have the following to choose from: joyeux noel (about 1st WW chrimstas ceasefire), Bombon el perro, Che, The Ghost, or 30019:54
mungbeanor tales from earthsea, but don't think i bother with that19:54
penguin42well I don't know any of them, I guess 300 might be worth a go19:54
mungbeani watched spiral series 4 last week - best telly i've seen all year (since the killing)19:55
ali1234not 30019:56
ali1234it's rubbish19:56
ali1234haven't seen any of the others19:56
ali1234300 is ok i guess, if you haven't seen it, and you want to see a load of memes in their original context19:56
mungbeanif i watch a subtitled film then i have to turn off laptop19:57
mungbeannot a bad thing19:57
mungbeani fancy watching dune again but its at bottom of my dvd box19:58
popeynot seen that for years19:58
mungbeannoiideep19:58
ali1234haha dune19:59
popeyboo, not on netflix19:59
mungbeanfail19:59
ali1234people reckon it's bad, i don't know why, i think it's good19:59
mungbeanits good if u aint read the book19:59
ali1234it's better if you have19:59
mungbeanworst book->film i ever saw was catch2220:00
ali1234dredd (3D) is good20:01
ali1234i saw that the other day20:01
mungbeanhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0244479/ just found in the box, is good20:07
directhexyikes. insane jump in bitcoin difficulty. you spotted that, Azelphur?20:09
AzelphurI havn't, but that'll likely be because there are 3 asics in the wild, so to be expected.20:09
AlanBellproper asics, not just fpgas?20:16
ali1234yes, proper ones20:16
AlanBellgosh20:16
AzelphurAlanBell: I have 3 of em on preorder, big dollar :P20:17
SuperEngineerAzelphur: [yawn]20:21
Azelphurlol20:22
SuperEngineerthat's boasting20:22
ali1234i spent the past two days trying to figure out why cmake refuse tolink libraries properly and now it is linking everything twice20:22
ali1234http://paste.ubuntu.com/5644435/20:23
SuperEngineerali1234: if only you'd spent just one day figuring... there's an obvious correlation20:24
ali1234mingw takes forever to link OgreMain.dll as well20:24
ali1234i mean 10 minutes just to link20:25
ali1234on linux it takes about 5 seconds20:25
* SuperEngineer remembers the "good ol' days" of compliling & linking in Cliiper20:27
MyrttiI recon the selection for the UK customers of Netflix is somehow really crippled20:31
popeyyeah20:31
Myrttibecause even Finland has better20:31
MyrttiI totally watched Dune from Netflix20:31
mungbeanstill feeding baby, so the dune dvd is still in thestorage boxx:(20:32
mungbeanfound my dune dvd, ooh special edition20:50
mungbeanlost the dvd remote :(20:53
Myrttihttp://retrominer.com/20:58
dwatkinshaha, is there a network interface for the NES, though?20:59
SuperEngineerbfn folks21:00
dwatkinsah I see, cunning21:07
* dwatkins assumes the Pi is more powerful than the NES, but it was an interesting challenge21:07
mungbeancan't get this tune out of my head http://www.gruffalo.com/chorus/index.html22:18
=== bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm
=== PaulGit_ is now known as PaulGit
=== ormiret_ is now known as ormiret
=== Myrtti_ is now known as Myrtti
=== G4MBY is now known as PaulW2U
=== cs278 is now known as Guest20395
=== ikonia_ is now known as ikonia

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