[03:10] <ninjaaron> Is Mir going to use libxkbcommon for handling input stuff?
[03:11] <ninjaaron> keyboard input, I should say.
[03:33] <xnox> ninjaaron: try #ubuntu-mir channel.
[03:34] <ninjaaron> xnox: thanks. will do.
[06:03] <pitti_> Good morning
[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <fishor> hallo all, is it good time to discuss replacement for gnome-media packet? I talked about it with mitya57 and he suggested to do it today with more devs
[08:29] <dholbach> doko_, do you have an idea what http://paste.ubuntu.com/5645704/ might be about? (or anyone else really?)
[08:29] <pitti> @pilot in
[08:31] <dholbach> ah ok, it's http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=703872
[08:31]  * dholbach hugs pitti
[08:33] <ev> mpt: what's something you want in the error tracker that I and bdmurray wont have time for? :) I'm willing to sponsor someone for Summer of Code: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2013/Ideas
[08:35] <mpt> ev, collecting the kinds of errors you've been meaning to collect since 12.04 but haven't had time for: hangs, debconf prompts, Ubuntu installation failures
[08:36] <mpt> ev, implementing the "Send a report automatically if a problem prevents login"
[08:36] <mpt> Implementing "Show Previous Reports"
[08:37] <mpt> Implementing "What's unusual about this error"
[08:39] <mpt> ev, and on the site, filtering by package set (-proposed, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu, etc)
[08:41] <ev> mpt: cheers!
[08:58] <ev> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/SummerOfCode2013
[09:42] <cjwatson> mpt: -proposed isn't a package set, FWIW
[09:43] <cjwatson> It should be orthogonal to things like Ubuntu Server, since it would be useful to be able to search for errors in server-related packages that are still only in -proposed
[09:46] <pitti> doko: do you want to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu/raring/python3-defaults/3.3.0-3ubuntu1/+merge/154723 yourself, or want me to review/upload?
[09:50] <pitti> doko: same question for https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu/raring/python-defaults/2.7.3-10ubuntu6/+merge/152592
[09:59] <pitti> cjwatson, infinity, lan3y: can you please hint udev to propagate to raring, to unbreak everyone's ACLs? it's stuck because of chromium armhf again
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: ^ FYI
[09:59] <jamespage> @pilot in
[10:01] <cjwatson> pitti: that's odd - since chromium was already broken, why did the new udev make it worse?
[10:02] <cjwatson> or did somebody fix chromium/armhf?
[10:02] <pitti> cjwatson: I wouldn't know -- perhaps it stumbles again over the libudev0 removal?
[10:02] <cjwatson> oh, yeah, that could be
[10:02] <pitti> no, there hasn't been a chromium upload
[10:02] <pitti> at least update_output complains about libudev0
[10:03] <pitti> it certainly doesn't make it worse, though; it just remains NBS
[10:03] <cjwatson> hinted
[10:03] <mpt> cjwatson, true, true. But better to be able to filter by either and not both, than by none. :-)
[10:03] <pitti> cjwatson: cheers
[10:03] <cjwatson> mpt: oh, certainly.  I just find getting terminology straight from the start can be helpful later
[10:03] <cjwatson> or at least categories :)
[10:09] <jibel> doko, could you look at bug 1159636
[10:12] <seb128> pitti, the new udev fixes my intel card
[10:12] <seb128> thanks
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: thanks for testing; cjwatson hinted it, so it should go into raring RSN
[10:12] <seb128> great
[10:13] <jamespage> jibel, I just hit that as well
[10:13] <pitti> sorry, I thought I unbroke that for the weekend
[10:13] <pitti> I wasn't aware it would be stuck in -proposed
[10:13] <pitti> popey: ^ that will also fix your bug
[10:13] <seb128> pitti, no worry, we don't pull systemd-services in by default yet so I doubt many people got bitten (out of desktop ppa users)
[10:14] <popey> i do not have systemd-services installed pitti
[10:14] <pitti> popey: ok, something else then
[10:19] <popey> pitti: should I file a new bug on this?
[10:19] <pitti> popey: I guess so
[10:19] <pitti> popey: did you verify it's the new kernel?
[10:19] <pitti> popey: you can boot the previous one in grub
[10:20] <popey> yes, i was missing linux-image*extra
[10:20] <pitti> aah
[10:20] <pitti> missing metapackages?
[10:20] <popey> no, overzealous cleanup on my part i think
[10:23] <pitti> popey: ah, not a bug then :)
[10:24] <popey> indeed
[10:24] <popey> i have two machines with the python problem though
[10:26] <popey> bug 1159636 covers it I think
[10:53] <fishor> hallo all, is it good time to discuss replacement for gnome-media packet? I talked about it with mitya57 and he suggested to do it today with more devs
[10:58] <rahulprasad> How do I contribute to manual pages ?
[11:04] <fishor> short description of problem i mean. gnome-media package is dead. gst-mixer and gstreamer-profiles are deprecated/not used.  Gnome-sound-recorder is not working.
[11:05] <seb128> fishor, right, we dropped gnome-media from the CD/default installation in raring
[11:05] <seb128> fishor, it's unmaintained upstream and we didn't want to port it to gstreamer1.0
[11:06] <fishor> seb128, i extracted gnome-sound-recorder and ported it to gstreamer1.0
[11:06] <seb128> fishor, oh, nice, does it work with your version?
[11:06] <fishor> upstream refused to accept patches, thay said it must die, it is too old and some
[11:07] <fishor> yep
[11:07] <fishor> some one started to write recorder from scratch in vala... but stopped it one year ago
[11:07] <seb128> fishor, open a bug on launchpad with the patch and the reference to the upstream bug
[11:07] <seb128> we can get the patch in the package
[11:08] <seb128> that would still be an improvement on the current situation
[11:08] <fishor> seb128, there is no more upstream bugs... i strted to work on it in my repo
[11:08] <fishor> the patch will make no sense
[11:09] <seb128> fishor, "<fishor> upstream refused to accept patches" ... was that a private conversation?
[11:09] <seb128> fishor, ok, I don't follow you
[11:09] <seb128> you have a patch that port it to gst1.0 and make it work or not?
[11:09] <fishor> this conversation of on the list
[11:09] <seb128> what do you suggest there?
[11:10] <fishor> seb128,  https://gitorious.org/gsr/gnome-recorder
[11:10] <fishor> here is my repo
[11:10] <cjwatson> rahulprasad: that depends which manual pages; they're usually distributed/maintained along with other projects
[11:11] <fishor> seb128, i kept sending patches.. but after porting it to gst-1.0 all other parts from gnome-media made no sense any more.. i mean it conficted with gst-1.0
[11:11] <fishor> so i removed it.
[11:13] <fishor> since there is nothing more in gnome-media except recorder, it makes no sense to call it gnome-media. Upstream requested at the beginning that i create clean git source without usless parts but with old logs of recorder
[11:14] <fishor> i created it, but then it was declared as usless work since some body works on new recorder
[11:15] <fishor> it talked with this person, he is willing to cooperate but has no time to continue his project
[11:16] <fishor> the problem i had with his project is that it is in vala. I needed add new futers
[11:17] <fishor> new options to recorder and to gstreamer, but it made me even more work with vala.. so i continued to work on C version of recorder
[11:17] <fishor> seb128, that is my story :)
[11:18] <seb128> fishor, ok, so what do you want to ask/suggest at this point? that somebody package your "forked" gnome-sound-recorder as a new source and drop gnome-media from the archive?
[11:18] <fishor> seb128, yep, if you wont working recorder in raring ;)
[11:19] <seb128> fishor, I would rather just apply that big patch over gnome-media
[11:19] <seb128> fishor, it's a bit late to start adding new sources in the archive etc
[11:21] <fishor> seb128, i'm not sure if it will apply...  i removed unneeded part from git history too
[11:21] <fishor> but you can try
[11:22] <seb128> fishor, well, nothing to do with git, diff -Nru old new
[11:22] <seb128> that gives you a big diff that should work
[11:22] <tvoss> seb128, ping
[11:22] <seb128> fishor, can you open a bug on launchpad ask for your source to be packaged?
[11:22] <seb128> tvoss, hey
[11:23] <tvoss> seb128, I think we should reschedule the settings meeting as mpt won't be able to make it
[11:23] <seb128> tvoss, did you plan to discuss UI design?
[11:24] <seb128> tvoss, and will we ever find a slot where the 9 people are all available?
[11:24] <seb128> tvoss, imho there is enough technical details to discuss that we can keep busy for an hour without talking pixels
[11:27] <tvoss> seb128, it's less talking pixels it's more to make sure that we have collected all the relevant use-cases
[11:28] <seb128> tvoss, well, lars and aruiz talk to him like daily
[11:28] <seb128> I would trust them to have a good overview of the plans he has
[11:29] <tvoss> seb128, okay, just want to avoid duplicating conversation
[11:29] <seb128> ok, I feel like we will be able to make good use of the hour, don't worry
[11:30] <seb128> there is quite a lot to discuss on the topic and we have quite some people on the call
[11:30] <jamespage> pitti, are you working from the sponsors review queue as well?  just noticed your feedback on bug 1141942
[11:31] <pitti> jamespage: yes, I'm currently piloting
[11:31] <pitti> urgh, I did @pilot in this morning, where did the topic go
[11:31] <pitti> @pilot in
[11:31] <jamespage> pitti, ditto - are you focussing on anything specifically or just working down the list
[11:32] <pitti> jamespage: I don't have any particular order really
[11:32] <pitti> but I guess we should coordinate now :)
[11:32] <pitti> jamespage: I just uplaoded the two jackd SRUs
[11:32] <jamespage> pitti, ack
[11:32] <jamespage> I'm looking at the virtualbox precise SRU right now
[11:32] <pitti> jamespage: "Fails to parse /etc/default/locale" also already uplaoded
[11:33] <pitti> jamespage: I ignore the security updates, as I can't/don't know how to process them
[11:33] <pitti> I wonder if they should really be on that page
[11:33] <jamespage> pitti, yeah - so do I - it does contribute to general noise in an annoying way for sponsors
[11:36] <pitti> jamespage: I'll stop now anyway, I already spent my whole morning on the queue
[11:36] <jamespage> pitti, ack
[11:36] <pitti> @pilot out
[11:40] <tkamppeter> OdyX, hi
[11:41] <fishor> seb128, here it is : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-media/+bug/1159744
[11:41] <seb128> fishor, thanks
[11:42] <seb128> lunch
[11:42] <seb128> be back in ~1h
[11:42] <jamespage> doko, bringing you attention to https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu/raring/python3-defaults/3.3.0-3ubuntu1/+merge/154723
[11:44] <jamespage> doko, just in case you are working on such an update for raring.
[12:07] <mitya57> pitti: hey, last time we agreed with jamespage and xnox that all linux headers in Ubuntu are automatically installed together with the kernel
[12:08] <xnox> mitya57: which bug is it again?
[12:08] <mitya57> also, when "linux-headers" package is installed it doesn't mean that the headers corresponding to the user's actual kernel flavour are installed (take 12.04
[12:08] <mitya57> *12.04.2's backported kernel as an example)
[12:09] <mitya57> xnox: the same package, pitti marked my branch as "Needs fixing"
[12:09] <mitya57> the same = blktap-dkms
[12:12] <mitya57> jamespage: btw, thanks for uploading virtualbox ;)
[12:13] <jamespage> mitya57, np - 3.5 dkms breaks 12.04.2 are a personal hate of mine (I had to fix openvswitch and iscsitarget)
[12:13] <jamespage> mitya57, did you see my comment on the bug?  really need to be tested with 3.2 kernel as well
[12:14] <jamespage> as fix will land on systems with both types of kernel
[12:14] <mitya57> jamespage: so number of broken packages is >= 4? not cool
[12:14] <mitya57> no, I didn't see that
[12:15] <jamespage> mitya57, the fix looks like it will support 3.2 - the code updates have conditions for >=3.5
[12:15] <mitya57> jamespage: I believe I tested it on my sid machine which has 3.2 :)
[12:16] <jamespage> mitya57, great - well it should be picked up during verfication anyway
[12:16] <jamespage> I added it to the regression potential section
[12:21] <ev> pitti: remind me, do you use -proposed on the Launchpad retracers? I'm seeing a problem where doing so prevents crashes from retracing when any of the dependencies come from a version earlier than whats in proposed
[12:22] <ev> as apport doesn't consider proposed special and sets RetraceOutdatedPackages in that case
[12:22] <ev> we could just drop the -proposed sources, but then that means we can't retrace crashes where -proposed is actually involved
[12:23] <ev> hm
[12:24] <jamespage> @pilot out
[12:27]  * dholbach hugs jamespage
[12:30] <jdstrand> jamespage, pitti: we believe that security updates should be on that page-- we sponsor things too and we look at that page when piloting
[12:31] <jdstrand> we also have people tend to those when not piloting
[12:32] <mitya57> mvo / dpm: we have been discussing bug 1159689 today in ubuntu-l10n-ru@, can you please comment on it?
[12:43] <xnox> mitya57: interesting, I last generated app-install-data, but I didn't do any fetching of additional translations from launchpad. My understanding was that those translations should land in the package itself.
[12:45] <mitya57> xnox: app-install-data is used only for "short" descriptions, AFAIK, "extended" descriptions should be taken from ddtp-ubuntu
[12:45] <xnox> ah.... I see.
[13:24] <stgraber> @pilot in
[13:24] <stgraber> (missed my shift on Friday)
[13:25] <ogra_> same here ... i'll do mine towards the weekend
[13:31] <DigvijayUbuntu> hello!
[13:31] <DigvijayUbuntu> any ubuntu developer here?
[13:34] <DigvijayUbuntu> helllo?
[13:34] <ion> Just ask the question.
[13:35] <ogra_> no, we calld that channel #ubuntu-devel just for fun ... we're a secret microsoft conspiracy
[13:35]  * ogra_ is joking indeed ...
[13:35] <ogra_> !ask
[13:36] <DigvijayUbuntu> ok =) I am not exactly usre, of what happen here. This irc is used fore conversation between developers? Am i Correct?
[13:37] <ogra_> yes
[13:37] <ogra_> for developing  the ubuntu distro (not for development on ubuntu (see channel topic))
[13:38] <DigvijayUbuntu> Yes yes exactly. Now i wanted to know what would be a good way to contribute to the ubuntu distro? I read something about getting a mentor or so
[13:39] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
[13:40] <DigvijayUbuntu> Well i was on that page only. Thanks for the effort though. It says under Writing Code, Contact : Read the UbuntuDevelopment wiki page
[13:40] <DigvijayUbuntu> Join the ubuntu-devel mailing list
[13:40] <DigvijayUbuntu> Join the #ubuntu-devel IRC Channel on irc.freenode.net
[13:40] <mpt> ev, how's the ramp-up weighting going?
[13:41] <ev> still stuck in the queue
[13:42] <ev> mpt: (https://portal.admin.canonical.com/ruins?team=losa - RT 60205)
[13:42] <janimo> DigvijayUbuntu, that page also describes ways you can contribute. You can pick one that suits you and when you have specific questions you can use the maliing list and IRC
[13:42] <cjwatson> DigvijayUbuntu: we don't typically assign people a mentor or anything - usually what happens is that sponsors review your work after you've submitted it, and if necessary advise on ways you can improve it
[13:43] <DigvijayUbuntu> so I work on Ubuntu, something which would be useful or making ubuntu better. Then I submit it to a sponsor?
[13:43] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[13:45] <DigvijayUbuntu> ok thanks cjwatson =)
[14:08] <jodh> xnox/stgraber: could you take a look at my packaging changes in lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/raring/upstart/1.8
[14:46] <stgraber> jodh: finishing a couple of reviews and some work on ssh-agent. Will take a look after that.
[14:47] <jodh> thanks.
[14:49] <jodh> stgraber: I'm wondering if http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646542/ would improve it further.
[14:52] <dobey> who broke python?
[14:52] <mitya57> dobey: ?
[14:52] <dobey> mitya57: on fully updated raring run: python -c "import webbrowser"
[14:52] <dobey> NameError: global name 'Chrome' is not defined
[14:53] <cjwatson> dobey: bug 1159636
[14:53] <dobey> ah, thanks cjwatson
[14:53] <dobey> davmor2: ^^
[14:53] <mgz> ha!
[14:54] <davmor2> dobey: ta
[14:54] <mgz> ha, need to dupe bug 1159737 against that
[14:55] <ScottK> dobey: Who always breaks python?
[14:56] <mgz> more to the point, how does the test suite not passing not prevent it getting in the archive...
[14:57] <dobey> mgz: dep8 tests, or build time tests?
[15:00] <mgz> dobey: python itself has a test that checks that "import webbrowser" works (only that though, their coverage isn't fantastic)
[15:01] <davmor2> mgz: I wouldn't mind but import webbrowser fails :)
[15:02] <mitya57> doko has already uploaded a fix to -proposed
[15:02] <mgz> not landing things that break the packages own test suites seemed like a pretty important part of the stability work
[15:06] <dobey> mgz: but is that test being run (and causing the build to fail) during the package build? or is it only being run during the dep8 tests?
[15:07] <mitya57> dobey: it's not run during build, and there are no dep-8 tests :(
[15:08]  * mitya57 runs away
[15:09] <dobey> :-/
[15:11] <bdmurray> stgraber: were you looking at a casper upload? there is a patch in bug 1159464
[15:12] <stgraber> bdmurray: that sounds like a new feature to me
[15:13] <stgraber> cjwatson: hey, so I've been working on a ssh-agent user job, which I finally got to work reliably now. I'm just wondering in what source to put it in. The equivalent Xsession script is in x11-common but I think it'd make more sense for the job to go in openssh-client. Do you agree?
[15:15] <cjwatson> stgraber: Maybe.  Does it need any interaction with x11-common (disabling the Xsession script if user jobs are active, or something)?  Will installing the user job be harmful if Upstart doesn't have user job support?
[15:18] <stgraber> cjwatson: the job is a user-session only job and will only start as part of an upstart-driven xsession. The job itself doesn't depend on xsession but if /etc/X11/Xsession.options exists, it'll check for the use-ssh-agent flag in there
[15:19] <stgraber> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5646619/
[15:21] <stgraber> I don't think it'd be completely wrong to have it ship in x11-common, but I think it'd look a bit weird to have an ssh-agent upstart job installed on a system that doesn't have ssh-agent itself.
[15:22] <stgraber> whereas the reverse wouldn't be as weird looking as having the job on a system that doesn't use upstart user sessions, would just mean an extra unused file under /usr so not really user visible
[15:22] <cjwatson> stgraber: OK.  Can I have a bug on Debian openssh-client and I'll stick it in there?
[15:23] <cjwatson> I was planning on an upload soonish anyway.
[15:24] <stgraber> cjwatson: sure. So should I just wait for the next sync from Debian to get it in raring?
[15:25] <cjwatson> If you don't mind that
[15:26] <stgraber> nope, that's fine. Do you think you'll have this done before FinalBetaFreeze? (we have a FFe for those few remaining upstart integration bits and I try to have all of those done before we start getting into the last freezes)
[15:29] <cjwatson> Yep
[15:34] <ev> bdmurray (and pitti in case you're curious): https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1159849
[15:35] <ev> infinity: do you know what happened with the plans to keep dbgsym packages in the librarian forever?
[15:35] <bdmurray> ev: thanks
[15:42] <ev> bdmurray: if you have thoughts on that one, do share :). I'm on my 3432094832097th cup of coffee today and battling lcy02 to the death, so I do not doubt that I might be talking rubbish.
[15:43] <jodh> ev: have you just overflowed?
[15:44] <ev> jodh: ew, hopefully not!
[15:44] <ev> ;)
[15:58] <seb128> hum,
[15:58] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/webbrowser.py", line 489, in register_X_browsers
[15:58] <seb128>     register(browser, None, Chrome(browser))
[15:58]  * seb128 looks at doko
[15:59] <mgz> seb128: bug 1159636
[15:59] <seb128> mgz, thanks
[15:59] <seb128> is anyone working on an upload for the fix?
[15:59] <mgz> it's in -proposed apparently
[15:59] <seb128> ok, good
[15:59] <seb128> mgz, thanks
[16:04] <cjwatson> seb128: yeah, it's waiting for the armhf build to finish
[16:04] <seb128> cjwatson, I applied the diff to the .py directly and confirmed it works ;-)
[16:05] <philwyett> Hi all. Is there an issue with the precise upload queue? We have nvidia-cuda-toolkit and and viennacl built in the queue and showing on proposed report, but no binaries showing on LP for both. I am waiting for mesa 9.03.
[16:06] <cjwatson> uploads to stable releases require manual review by the SRU team which can take a while
[16:06] <philwyett> Ah, OK.
[16:06] <cjwatson> um, except I guess that isn't what you're talking about
[16:06]  * cjwatson looks
[16:06] <philwyett> :-)
[16:07] <cjwatson> ah, changed package names I guess?
[16:07] <cjwatson> any new package name causes the binaries to land in the NEW queue awaiting archive admin review
[16:08] <philwyett> So we are waiting on that then.
[16:08] <cjwatson> which in this case would be because the binaries hadn't previously managed to build in precise at all
[16:09] <philwyett> Does this process normally take long?
[16:09] <cjwatson> I'm looking at it now
[16:09] <ScottK> It's mostly waiting for someone with time to review.
[16:09] <mlankhorst> ugh why is mesa-lts-quantal in new then?
[16:09] <cjwatson> though you'll have to wait until the binaries squidge down over my not-so-broadband
[16:09] <philwyett> Thats great.
[16:09] <cjwatson> mlankhorst: now that's probably just an LP ancestry bug
[16:13] <stgraber> cjwatson: debian bug 703906
[16:14] <DigvijayUbuntu> Hey! I want to know where I can find the Ubuntu source code documentation
[16:17] <mlankhorst> cjwatson: anything I can do against it?
[16:18] <DigvijayUbuntu> Hello busy developers. It would be great help
[16:20] <cjwatson> mlankhorst: no, I'll take care of it
[16:20] <cjwatson> DigvijayUbuntu: there is no single place, since Ubuntu is an aggregation of many projects
[16:21] <cjwatson> DigvijayUbuntu: with this kind of question it generally helps to have some idea which project you're looking at
[16:21] <cjwatson> stgraber: thanks
[16:22] <DigvijayUbuntu> cjwatson O I see. I see.
[16:22] <DigvijayUbuntu> cjwatson Well i dont have a very good idea as of now. Is there any place that needs improving? I'll try to work there
[16:27] <dobey> DigvijayUbuntu: what do you mean by "source code documentation" exactly?
[16:27] <tkamppeter> OdyX, around?
[16:27] <DigvijayUbuntu> dobey Well like how the operating system is built up. What goes where. Like a stack.
[16:28] <DigvijayUbuntu> Well i was actually looking for this piece of information, so some source code documentation would be the place to look
[16:28] <DigvijayUbuntu> but there isnt any
[16:30] <OdyX> tkamppeter: half
[16:31] <dobey> DigvijayUbuntu: an overview of the stack is quite different from "source code documentation" :)
[16:31] <DigvijayUbuntu> i know i know, but that would b e a good place to look for it
[16:31] <dobey> not really
[16:31] <dobey> looking at the linux kernel source code won't tell you anything about the userspace programs that run on top of it
[16:32] <DigvijayUbuntu> well ,ok. But the question remains unanswered
[16:32] <DigvijayUbuntu> so is ther a place like that?
[16:32] <dobey> probably not
[16:33] <DigvijayUbuntu> well it qould be quite useful
[16:33] <DigvijayUbuntu> would*
[16:33] <DigvijayUbuntu> this information that is
[16:34] <dobey> i don't think it would be terribly useful; though it wouldn't be hard for someone to create a simple image with a basic overview of that information
[16:34] <philwyett> DigvijayUbuntu, Maybe the LFS (Linux From Scratch) project may offer some help here and give you that kind of documentation.
[16:35] <dobey> without specific software names involved, the graph(?) will basically be the same for any monolithic kernel based OS
[16:36] <dobey> and for versions of linux, it will only vary in minor ways across different distributions
[16:36] <DigvijayUbuntu> yes dobey
[16:36] <DigvijayUbuntu> i agree
[16:37] <dobey> oh, there is something
[16:37] <dobey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/platform/documentation/platform-diagram/
[16:39] <DigvijayUbuntu> well, that does seem like it. But if i were to search for these in the source code
[16:39] <DigvijayUbuntu> how is it organized?
[16:43] <dobey> DigvijayUbuntu: what source code? ubuntu is made up of thousands of separate projects/packages, which are in various different languages. there is no single "source code" tree for ubuntu. and how they use things may vary differently across them
[16:43] <ogra_> ubuntu is organized by seeds ... seeds are defining a set of binary packages ... have a look at the ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-standard, ubuntu-desktop metapackages and tasks, these are generated from the ubuntu seeds and usually make up want a typical ubuntu install contains
[16:44] <ogra_> (likewise for flavours like kubuntu. xubuntu, lubuntu etc)
[16:44] <dobey> anyway i need to get lunch and deal with some life things
[16:44] <DigvijayUbuntu> ok see you dobey
[16:44] <DigvijayUbuntu> tthanks
[16:45] <ogra_> s/want/what/
[16:45] <DigvijayUbuntu> ogra_ the packages are there, but if i were to say work on a package how would i find it
[16:45] <DigvijayUbuntu> as in say i want to work on what makes unity tick
[16:45] <DigvijayUbuntu> work on unity*
[16:47] <tvoss> seb128, ping
[16:48] <ogra_> then you would take a look at  the desktop seed, though if its specifically just unity you would look at the unity metapackage and what it depends on
[16:48] <seb128> tvoss, pong
[16:48] <DigvijayUbuntu> ogra_ how do i improve some package which already exists
[16:48] <DigvijayUbuntu> desktop seed?
[16:49] <DigvijayUbuntu> how do i go there?
[16:49] <DigvijayUbuntu> or get to it?
[16:49] <ogra_> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.raring
[16:50] <cjwatson> It's probably more useful to get the unity source directly and start there
[16:50] <cjwatson> apt-get source ANY-PACKAGE-NAME  gets you its source code
[16:50] <ogra_> yeah
[16:51] <DigvijayUbuntu> i see,
[16:51] <DigvijayUbuntu> though this seed thing is totally a new one for me
[16:51] <DigvijayUbuntu> it seems quite useful
[16:51] <ogra_> we jumped from "how is ubuntu organized" to "how do i fix unity" :)
[16:52] <DigvijayUbuntu> lol that was just en example
[16:52] <cjwatson> I don't really think seeds are a good place for newcomers to start - they're essentially an implementation detail of how we keep track of what we want to install by default in Ubuntu
[16:52] <DigvijayUbuntu> thats the first thing which came to my mind
[16:52] <ogra_> the easiest to start contributing is probably to go to the bugtracker or errors.ubuntu.com and pick a bug and try to fix it
[16:52] <DigvijayUbuntu> oooo
[16:52] <DigvijayUbuntu> but bugs are rrors
[16:53] <DigvijayUbuntu> and i want to work on performance
[16:53] <DigvijayUbuntu> generally* errors
[16:53] <DigvijayUbuntu> like say everytime i open ubuntu software centre, for a second it seems like it is hung
[16:53] <DigvijayUbuntu> every time i boot ubuntu
[16:54] <DigvijayUbuntu> the splash logo appears only in the end for half a second
[16:54] <DigvijayUbuntu> stuff like this....
[16:54] <DigvijayUbuntu> like say my room mate is using ubuntu, and he says this is not right
[16:54] <DigvijayUbuntu> then i want to fix it
[16:55] <philwyett> The splash screen thing is known. See: http://www.worldofnubcraft.com/1621/make-plymouth-start-earlier-in-the-boot-process/
[16:56] <DigvijayUbuntu> well why has no one worked on it?
[16:56] <philwyett> Sorry all. That is more of an #ubuntu question and answer.
[16:56] <DigvijayUbuntu> any good software, has to atleast start well
[16:57] <cjwatson> the problem with the splash screen thing is that moving it earlier slows down the boot process
[16:57] <cjwatson> so it's an unfortunate trade-off
[16:57] <DigvijayUbuntu> o i see
[16:57] <DigvijayUbuntu> so i seem the way to understand more about ubuntu
[16:57] <DigvijayUbuntu> is starting at the bottom
[16:58] <DigvijayUbuntu> so bugs it is for now\
[16:58] <DigvijayUbuntu> thanks for the info guys
[16:58] <DigvijayUbuntu> see you around
[16:58] <ogra_> thats a good start :)
[16:58] <DigvijayUbuntu> bye!
[16:59] <roaksoax> slangasek: howdy!! I was wondering if there's something else I needed to take care of for MAAS to get accepted into -proposed?
[17:01] <DigvijayUbuntu> okays
[17:01] <DigvijayUbuntu> lol
[17:01] <DigvijayUbuntu> so i m back
[17:01] <DigvijayUbuntu> just afor a seconf though
[17:01] <DigvijayUbuntu> i looked at new bugs
[17:01] <DigvijayUbuntu> this seems interesting enough
[17:02] <DigvijayUbuntu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/1159883
[17:07] <tkamppeter> OdyX, I have done a small fix on iOS client printing support in the Ubuntu CUPS package (1.6.2-1ubuntu3). Can you merge it back to Debian? I am currently not syncing as after our FF I do not want to take in the new binary package splitting.
[17:08] <OdyX> tkamppeter: yeah, no problem, thanks.
[17:08] <cjwatson> philwyett,mlankhorst: nvidia-cuda-toolkit/viennacl/mesa-lts-quantal accepted
[17:08] <mlankhorst> yay ty
[17:08] <cjwatson> (will take the usual hour or so to publish)
[17:09] <OdyX> tkamppeter: ideally, you could do git commits without debian/changelog messages in master, and then create out-of-branch tags for the Ubuntu releases.
[17:09] <OdyX> (aka re-creating the tree of revisions)
[17:09] <OdyX> tkamppeter: but that way is good enough, I'll manage. :-)
[17:11] <philwyett> cjwatson, Thanks
[17:13] <OdyX> tkamppeter: pushed, thanks.
[17:14] <slangasek> roaksoax: nothing else... I just need to sanity-check it, I was stymied on Friday by the lack of a diff in the queue (not your fault, but launchpad's)
[17:21] <roaksoax> slangasek: ok cool :)
[18:17] <infinity> ev: The plan still exists, it's just been stalled a bit.
[18:18]  * infinity runs away back to being on vacation.
[18:18] <ev> infinity: thanks
[18:19] <hallyn_> apw: hey - i'm trying to build a sparc-cross-toolchain-base package, based on the arm and powerpc versions.  (this is to build sparc openbios for qemu to use on x86 etc)  Doing so requires sparc architectures in linux-source-3.8.0 (debian.master/rules.d/sparc.mk file etc).  I assume I'll have to just keep that in a local quilt diff, but if there's anything kernel team has sitting around that would help, please let me know :)
[18:39] <hallyn_> apw: nm, i see now in the rules file some tweaking is sort of expected anyway :)
[18:44] <apw> hallyn_, :)
[19:50] <hallyn_> doko: I'm trying to caox a sparc-cross-toolchain-base into building.  At this point it dies because gcc-4.7 tries to apply 'gcc-as-needed', which doesn't apply 100% cleanly.  I can quilt push; quilt ref' it by hand just fine, but am not sure where in gcc's packaging to udpate it.  (might resort to unpacking the .xz and updating manually)
[19:54] <hallyn_> hm, maybe just removing that patch is working (as tmp solution)
[19:58] <stgraber> @pilot out
[20:13] <infinity> hallyn_: the *cross* packages re-patch the source packages they're building.  I assume you've noticed this, right? :)
[20:13] <infinity> hallyn_: So, you can just fudge it in there.
[20:14] <hallyn_> infinity: yes, and i do so with linux-source,
[20:15] <hallyn_> infinity: but with gcc it keeps re-extracting it, so i can't just say "after extracting it, quilt push -f quilt ref"
[20:17] <hallyn_> well lemme start over from 'init-gcc' stamp
[20:19] <hallyn_> ooh, i removed the wrong path (gcc/* instead of *)
[20:19] <hallyn_> maybe that'll do it
[20:24] <hallyn_> remember, serge, when it looks like something magical is happening, you've got a typo
[20:25] <infinity> hallyn_: Or you have genuine magic.
[20:25] <infinity> hallyn_: And I'd like to know about it, so I can ride your coattails to riches and fame.
[20:25] <hallyn_> if i find some, i owe it to you - will let you know
[21:02] <ahasenack> hi guys, anyone here familiar with gir1.2-gudev-1.0 and libgudev-1.0-0 packaging?
[21:02] <ahasenack> in raring, gir1.2-gudev-1.0 does NOT Depends on libgudev-1.0-0
[21:02] <ahasenack> but it does in oneiric, precise and quantal
[21:03] <ahasenack> is this an oversight? I'm currently tracking #1159997, where landscape-client doesn't work in raring unless libgudev-1.0-0 is installed
[21:03] <ahasenack> but before adding that as an explicit dependency, I wanted to ask first
[21:03] <ahasenack> since we already depend on  gir1.2-gudev-1.0, and that used to be enough (it pulled in libgudev-1.0-0)
[21:10] <bdmurray> RAOF: are you working on a precise fix for bug 827934?
[21:11] <bdmurray> it seems more prevalent there with nearly 25k incidents
[21:23] <nemo> Hey. I'm trying to support a user who hit an endless spinner on 12.04 installer at "preparing to install" (attempting to reinstall an old install)
[21:23] <nemo> so I suggested he open a command prompt on CD and launch the installer app manually, so he could note any errors
[21:24] <nemo> now. I'm pretty sure that 12.04 uses Unity so I can't just tell him to right click on the icon, choose properties and copy and paste that text
[21:24] <nemo> Does anyone here offhand know what the installer script name is?  pretty sure it is python. not positive tho
[21:24] <sarnold> nemo: I think you're looking for 'ubiquity'
[21:25] <nemo> sarnold: that sounds about right
[21:25]  * nemo tries feeding that into google
[21:25] <sarnold> nemo: 12.04 LTS also had an 'alternative installer' (debian-install, iirc) that is less friendly and might work on different hardware (no gui)
[21:26] <nemo> yeah. doubt gui is his problem
[21:26] <nemo> I suspect it hit some error. for example. last time I used CD to do an upgrade, it blew up over a non-empty /usr/local
[21:26] <nemo> but I didn't discover this until I ran from commandline
[21:26] <nemo> probably could have found something in xsession-errors I suppose
[21:27] <sarnold> if he's just upgrading, a do-release-upgrade might do the job better than a CD anyhow
[21:27] <ScottK> More likely, the 12.04.2 media uses a newer kernel and X server to support newer hardware, so installing now presents a host of possibilities for trouble.
[21:27] <ScottK> sarnold: Definitely.
[21:28] <sarnold> .. and likewise, "What ScottK said" :) hehe
[21:28] <nemo> sarnold: he had screwed up his existing system badly
[21:28] <nemo> sarnold: so just wanted to reinstall
[21:29] <sarnold> nemo: ah :)
[21:29] <nemo> he's not terribly savvy and can't let me into his system (well, wouldn't really want him to anyway)
[21:30] <sarnold> nemo: well, if /home is on its own filesystm it's easy enough to wipe everything else and get back to basics quickly enough. If /home wasn't on its own filesystem, it isn't as easy to make a clean break, but hopefully still possible with the installer...
[21:31] <nemo> I imagine it was all one filesystem
[21:31] <nemo> I doubt he cares about /home
[21:31] <sarnold> yeah, me too :(
[21:31] <sarnold> oh :)
[21:31] <nemo> I think it was a windows/linux dual boot
[21:31] <nemo> I think he just is very worried about wiping windows
[21:31] <nemo> so safest option seemed to be reinstall
[21:32] <nemo> hm. he thinks he is running 10.04 - not that it should matter for a reinstall
[21:33] <nemo> anyway. trying to get him to figure out how to launch gnome-terminal in unity :)
[21:50] <lool> wow, serious syslog spam from the accountservice SRU -- tons of "dbus[461]: last message repeated 10 times" messages
[21:52] <lool> Hmm I guess dbus reloaded its config one time per locale on the system or something like that
[22:14] <nemo> sarnold: didn't help anyway. ubiquity spun its wheels for 15 minutes w/o anything showing up on terminal
[22:14] <nemo> he's trying again w/ tail -f .xsession-errors running on the offchance stuff ended up there :-/
[22:14] <sarnold> nemo: 15 minutes?? ouch.
[22:15] <nemo> I have to say. unless the install is a clean one, and ideally w/o trying to preserve any existing OS, ubuntu installer has been pretty hit or miss for me :-/
[22:15] <nemo> and I like to think that after 17 years I kinda know my way around linux, yet it still manages to stump me
[22:16] <nemo> certainly what it is doing is hard, but it does not make it easy to discover or debug errors
[22:16] <nemo> is like "everything should just work, and if it doesn't, you're just gonna have to guess"
[22:19] <sarnold> nemo: heh, I was _thrilled_ when everything Just Worked on my Pandaboard. I expected an oddball architecture to be a pain in the butt, but I got to return my usb-serial cable _unopened_. I was duly impressed with the installer that day. :)
[22:19] <nemo> sarnold: well. for a *clean* install, installer has always been a marvel
[22:19] <nemo> sarnold: is just if I need to upgrade, or reinstall, or preserve an existing windows install
[22:19] <nemo> that I get flakiness.
[22:20] <nemo> in this case, I'm wondering if the fact that he has 2HDs is somehow confusing it
[22:20] <sarnold> nemo: hrm, I thought re-sizing existing windows Just Worked these days too.
[22:20] <sarnold> naah, most of my installs had multiple hard drives, that just works.
[22:21] <nemo> well. windows situation may well have changed. haven't tried that one in quite a while to be sure.
[22:21] <nemo> pretty windows free at home these days
[22:22] <ScottK> As long as it's not Windows 8, AFAIK, it shouldn't be an issue.
[22:22] <nemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/188976 was the last one I hit, which appears to have been fixed last year
[22:22] <nemo> ScottK: heh. well. windows 8 is a whole new level of evil
[22:23] <nemo> ScottK: poor users, if they can even get ubuntu installed period, w/o being locked out or having to navigate arcane bios settings...
[23:23] <RAOF> bdmurray: That's a difficult one; fixing it requires basically rewriting the colord-sane component.
[23:24] <bdmurray> RAOF: ah, I didn't realize it was that different
[23:25] <RAOF> bdmurray: Probably the most reasonable way to deal with it is to avoid hitting it by disabling sane support in the conf file. I'm not sure that's an excellent SRU, though.
[23:27] <RAOF> Actually, probably the *best* way of dealing with it would be for apport to just not pop up on colord crashes. They have no user-visible effect other than the apport dialog, and colord will be automatically respawned when something tries to use it.
[23:29] <bdmurray> Preventing all crashes from the package being reported seems heavy handed to me.
[23:40] <RAOF> bdmurray: We could try client-side filtering of crashes? Although that would be difficult, because the reason it crashes is that it leaks fds until it's got more than 1024 open, and then dies somewhere when something tries to do something that won't work on fd > 1024.
[23:40] <sarnold> like, select(2)? :)
[23:40] <sarnold> ouch.
[23:41] <RAOF> Indeed.
[23:57] <smoser> hey all. i have a very simple little python project.  It has no 'make install' or other way of installation.
[23:58] <smoser> what would be recommended way to install (with an eye towards making packaging easy)
[23:58] <smoser> ie, i'll pick whatever makes stuff "just work".