[13:24] <stgraber> @pilot in
[13:24] <meetingology> stgraber: Error: "pilot" is not a valid command.
[13:24] <stgraber> oops, wrong channel :)
[16:31] <jdstrand> hi!
[16:31] <sarnold> o/
[16:31] <chrisccoulson> \o
[16:32] <jjohansen> \o
[16:32] <tyhicks> hello
[16:32] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[16:32] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 16:32:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:32] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:32] <mdeslaur> \o
[16:32] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:32] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:32] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:33] <jdstrand> in order to better accomodate all the members of the security team, we've changed our meeting time to 16:30 UTC
[16:33] <jdstrand> Thanks to Scott Kitterman (ScottK) who provided a debdiff for hardy for clamav (LP: #1157385). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
[16:33] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:33] <jdstrand> :)
[16:34] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: please book travel for the sprint if you haven't already
[16:34] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Actions
[16:34] <jdstrand> I had the action for changing the meeting time. that is obviously done :)
[16:34] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:35] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[16:35] <jdstrand> I have a short week this week, with friday off
[16:35] <jdstrand> I'm on community this week
[16:35] <jdstrand> I've got various performance reviews stuff I'll be working on
[16:36] <jdstrand> as well as monthly planning for March (follow-ups) and April
[16:36] <jdstrand> I think the monthly planning went pretty well this month (the planning itself, not the work items (which are doing quite well :), which we can discuss in a bit)
[16:37] <jdstrand> I have 2 audits I need to do surrounding the SDK and gwibber
[16:37] <jdstrand> and I'd like to carve out some time for looking at scopes privacy
[16:38] <jdstrand> in terms of March work items status:
[16:39] <jdstrand> I worked on getting the Ubuntu SDK/Unity dbus abstractions together last week, and have created patches against our apparmor in the dbus ppa that I'll either upload or coordinate with tyhicks
[16:39] <jdstrand> so my part should be done today
[16:40] <jdstrand> I am also updating the apparmor.d man page for dbus
[16:40] <jdstrand> that should be done shortly
[16:40] <tyhicks> nice! :)
[16:41] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
[16:41] <mdeslaur> I've just pushed out the openssl regression fix
[16:41] <mdeslaur> and gnome-online-accounts
[16:41] <mdeslaur> I'm currently finishing ruby testing, they should go out this afternoon
[16:41] <mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
[16:41] <mdeslaur> and will pick up another update
[16:42] <mdeslaur> I hope to have time to try out the sdk too
[16:42] <mdeslaur> that's about it from me
[16:42] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[16:42] <sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor display manager confinement again this week.
[16:43] <sbeattie> I'm still working on some issues with the logging prototype that I've been working on
[16:43] <sbeattie> I'm also digging into the mir codebase this week
[16:43] <mdeslaur> cool
[16:44] <sbeattie> and that's pretty much it for me.
[16:44] <sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
[16:44] <tyhicks> I'm primarily working on apparmor dbus mediation this week
[16:44] <jdstrand> sbeattie: in terms of work items, that leaves the API. will those be postponed to april?
[16:44] <tyhicks> I'm still bug squashing from late last week
[16:44]  * tyhicks pauses
[16:45] <sbeattie> jdstrand: yeah, likely.
[16:45] <jdstrand> ok
[16:45] <jdstrand> tyhicks: sorry
[16:45] <tyhicks> np
[16:45] <jdstrand> go ahead
[16:45] <tyhicks> I've fixed the dbus-daemon segfault that we were seeing and I'm trying to understand some oddness around the dbus acquire permission checks
[16:46] <tyhicks> I found one bug in the query code and fixed it
[16:46] <tyhicks> there's still another bug either in the parser or the query code... looking into that more right now
[16:46] <tyhicks> then I'll upload those 3 fixes today
[16:46] <tyhicks> then I'll switch to my last remaining march work item:
[16:46] <tyhicks> [tyhicks] dbus daemon, use aa_getpeercon - initial (high) (1): INPROGRESS
[16:47] <tyhicks> I've already been thinking how I want to do that and don't think it'll take much work to complete
[16:47] <jdstrand> o/ (I have a question when you are done with status)
[16:47] <tyhicks> (the sizing feels accurate to me, so I don't forsee that work item to be postponed)
[16:48] <tyhicks> Outside of that stuff, I need to do some work on eCryptfs performance improvements. That'll probably fall in after-hours time, though.
[16:48] <tyhicks> That's it for me
[16:48] <tyhicks> jdstrand: what's your question?
[16:49] <jdstrand> I think you covered your work items status, but unrelated to that, did you also see the issues I was having with the output of apparmor_parser -p with dbus rules?
[16:50] <tyhicks> jdstrand: Yeah, I took a quick look at that and I still don't have a good answer
[16:50] <jdstrand> ok
[16:50]  * jdstrand is done
[16:50] <tyhicks> jdstrand: I'm not really familiar with the parser code, so it'll take a bit of time for me to get to the bottom of that
[16:51] <tyhicks> jdstrand: Can I look at that after the getpeercon work item or is it blocking your work item from completion?
[16:51] <jdstrand> it may be something jjohansen can point you at (or maybe it is an easy fix). it isn't super important atm, but something we don't want to release with
[16:51]  * tyhicks nods
[16:51] <jdstrand> it isn't blocking me at all
[16:51] <jdstrand> it is just a bug that I wanted on someone's todo list
[16:51] <tyhicks> jdstrand: I've added an entry in my todo tracker
[16:51] <jdstrand> thanks
[16:52] <tyhicks> np, thanks for pointing it out :)
[16:52] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:52] <jjohansen> jdstrand: is there a bug open on that?
[16:53] <jjohansen> we don't need one, just want make sure if there is we update it
[16:53] <jdstrand> jjohansen: no, which was a question I had. how do we want to handle bugs against the ppa? perhaps we could discuss in #apparmor after the meeting (but here is fine if it is an easy answer)
[16:53]  * tyhicks doesn't have an easy answer atm
[16:53] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: just write in the bug description that it's the ppa version?
[16:53] <jdstrand> let's discuss in #apparmor then
[16:53] <jjohansen> jdstrand: generally I don't care. If you poke one of us, I think that is enough atm
[16:54] <jjohansen> I have a short week this week (off thurs, and friday)
[16:54] <jjohansen> I will be working on next months monthly planning and finishing up my apparmor wi (labeling, and stacking), and coordinating with tyhicks on integrating the dbus changes into the apparmor-dev ppa
[16:55] <jdstrand> jjohansen: based on that, it sounds like the march work items are on track. is that accurate?
[16:55] <jdstrand> wait, there was one you said might slip
[16:55] <mdeslaur> oh? which one?
[16:55] <jjohansen> jdstrand: hrmm, I am behind
[16:55] <jjohansen> stacking, extend policy language - parser (essential) (4): will be postponed for sure
[16:56] <jdstrand> yes, that was the one
[16:56] <jdstrand> jjohansen: no worries, I know you've been very busy with kernel security updates
[16:56] <jdstrand> I've already communicated that has slowed us down
[16:56] <jjohansen> I think we should be able to get the other ones out, but maybe I am being optimistic
[16:57] <jdstrand> well, it's ok if things overlap between months
[16:57] <jdstrand> we don't have to be rigid, just aware
[16:58] <jjohansen> right
[16:58] <jjohansen> I think that is it from me, sarnold your up
[16:59] <sarnold> I'm working on some workitems this week, juju charm authoring and testing
[16:59] <sarnold> turns out that local lxc deployments aren't working well in raring; hooray for uvt making vm testing so easy (thanks marc :)
[16:59] <sarnold> (I think the problem is the usual python-has-broken-everything-again)
[17:00] <sarnold> once I've made some progress there, I'll be doing the LXC MIR audit, unless something higher-priority pops up
[17:00] <sarnold> oh yes, I'm also on triage this week.
[17:00] <robru> is this the settings meeting?
[17:00] <sarnold> robru: security team
[17:01] <sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn :)
[17:01] <jdstrand> robru: we're almost done
[17:01] <robru> no worries
[17:01] <chrisccoulson> yoyo
[17:01] <seb128> we are moving to  #ubuntu-touch for the settings meeting
[17:01] <robru> seb128, thanks
[17:01]  * jdstrand didn't see a planned meeting in the calendar at this time, fwiw
[17:01] <chrisccoulson> so, last week I started looking at automated testing for chromium. i've got some tests running, and i plan to start writing the glue to hook this in to jenkins this week
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> i've also got a build of the latest version of chromium working on armhf
[17:02] <jdstrand> \o/
[17:02] <mdeslaur> \o/
[17:02] <mdeslaur> wait...new version breaking arm again in...5....
[17:02] <mdeslaur> 4....
[17:02] <mdeslaur> 3...
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> i went through the checklist of things i need to do as a new starter last week too. i've deferred a few things until i get my new laptop though (such as setting up test environments)
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> that's arriving in 2 days :)
[17:03] <sarnold> \o/
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> there's also a firefox release next week (which means preparing builds at the end of this week)
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> and i have a short week too
[17:04] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: oh, what version of ff?
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, 20
[17:04] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: I'll show you the UCT/USN ropes then
[17:04] <mdeslaur> they grow up so fast
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, excellent, thanks
[17:04] <chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
[17:05] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[17:05] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[17:05] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[17:05] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/strongswan.html
[17:05] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/proftpd-dfsg.html
[17:05] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libjboss-cache1-java.html
[17:05] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-adodb.html
[17:05] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jenkins-winstone.html
[17:05] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:05] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:06] <mdeslaur> is everyone off on monday?
[17:06] <jdstrand> no
[17:06] <jdstrand> US is not
[17:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: are you?
[17:06] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, i think we get friday and monday
[17:06] <chrisccoulson> i should check though :)
[17:06] <mdeslaur> ok, I'm off on monday, FYI
[17:06] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: yes :)
[17:07] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
[17:07] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:07] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 25 17:07:51 2013 UTC.
[17:07] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-16.32.moin.txt
[17:07] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-16.32.html
[17:07] <tyhicks> thanks
[17:07] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[17:07] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand
[17:07] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks
[17:08] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
[17:10] <seb128> setting on https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2c3a666c05f85fd29c4dcf2131e5f4b5a80d24d3?authuser=0&hl=fr
[17:14] <tvoss> seb128, got a spare seat for me?
[17:14] <seb128> tvoss, yes, we can go up to 15 and are at 10
[18:59] <HerbertWest> meeting today where is it?
[19:00]  * Elbrus is present
[19:00]  * stgraber waves
[19:00] <stgraber> !dmb-ping
[19:00] <ScottK> \o
[19:01] <stgraber> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[19:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 19:01:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:01] <stgraber> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:01] <stgraber> Micah to send summary of PPU decoupling discuss to the DMB list
[19:01] <stgraber> micahg: ^
[19:01] <tumbleweed> hi
[19:02] <stgraber> waiting a minute for micahg as he has both previous actions
[19:02] <bdrung> o/
[19:02] <micahg> that was done
[19:03] <stgraber> Micah to urgently send feedback on Bjorn's PPU application
[19:04] <stgraber> micahg: any progress on that one?
[19:04] <micahg> no, not yet, but I should have time soon
[19:04] <stgraber> ok
[19:05] <stgraber> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
[19:05] <stgraber> #subtopic Paul Gevers
[19:05] <Elbrus> that's me
[19:05] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Elbrus/PerPackageUploaderApplication
[19:05] <stgraber> Elbrus: Hi, can you introduce yourself and your application please?
[19:06] <Elbrus> well, I started working on Ubuntu several years ago
[19:06] <Elbrus> first looking at bugs
[19:06] <Elbrus> trying to get them in shape for proper solving
[19:07] <Elbrus> as I don't require much software myself that is not in Ubuntu yet, I started to look at request from others
[19:07] <Elbrus> I found winff
[19:07] <Elbrus> (well first miktex, but that didn't work)
[19:08] <ScottK> Why did you apply for PPU and not MOTU?
[19:08] <Elbrus> one step at a time
[19:08] <ScottK> PPU isn't necessary as a step.
[19:08] <Elbrus> as I am now Debian developer, I switched my own system to Debian...
[19:09] <Elbrus> I support Ubuntu (especially on the packages that I monitor)
[19:09] <Elbrus> I don't want to rush things
[19:10] <Elbrus> but no specific reason otherwise
[19:11] <Elbrus> actually, I haven't much looked into it, I was a DM for a long time and that was fine with me
[19:12] <Elbrus> at Debian it takes longer to earn those upload rights...
[19:12] <Elbrus> I guess that is it.
[19:12] <tumbleweed> DDs don't need to show much to join MOTU. Basically, if you understand the Ubuntu processes and release cycle, and do some work in Ubuntu, you can probably have a successful MOTU application
[19:13]  * Elbrus didn't know that... Daniel Holbach convinced me to get those PPU rights
[19:13] <Elbrus> we didn't discuss Motu
[19:14] <tumbleweed> it looks like your work in Ubuntu has been restricted to a handful of packages, so PPU sounds like it'd be useful to you
[19:14] <Elbrus> exactly
[19:14] <tumbleweed> but if you start working more widely, please come back to us
[19:14] <Elbrus> I try to spend my time understanding what I do
[19:14]  * ScottK would be happy to +1 either PPU or MOTU, fwiw.
[19:14] <Elbrus> thanks
[19:15] <tumbleweed> so, talking of Ubuntu processes
[19:15] <Elbrus> yes
[19:15] <tumbleweed> are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-annonce?
[19:15] <Elbrus> yes
[19:15] <tumbleweed> err, pretend I spelled that correctly
[19:15] <Elbrus> pretend I read what you ment
[19:16] <tumbleweed> oh, and, btw, thanks for your work on motif with graham inggs. he's a local friend, and I see good progress
[19:17] <Elbrus> yes, he is good to mentor (because that is what I am actually doing)
[19:17] <Elbrus> he knows the content, I know Debian procedures... good combo
[19:17] <micahg> Elbrus: have you ever had to work with the release team to get something in?
[19:17] <Elbrus> in Debian you mean?
[19:17] <micahg> no, Ubuntu
[19:18] <Elbrus> I think I filed a exception some releases ago
[19:18] <Elbrus> s/a/an
[19:19] <tumbleweed> if you wanted to do an upload tomorrow, would you need to coordinate with the release team?
[19:19] <Elbrus> at the current state of the release, I think yes, but to be honest, I would look it up first
[19:20] <Elbrus> after feature freeze
[19:20] <tumbleweed> so, the we trust Ubuntu Developers to know what they are doing
[19:20] <tumbleweed> if you decide an upload fixes bugs, and doesn't add new features, you can just do it
[19:20] <Elbrus> actually, graham was hinting yesterday of getting things in... I responded that I would expect that to go..
[19:21] <tumbleweed> none of the packages you are applying for are seeded, so we don't need to get into the more complex freeze issues
[19:21] <Elbrus> right... until the moment of release... (scary to me)
[19:21] <micahg> it never hurts to ask though if you're unsure
[19:21] <Elbrus> sure, all leaf packages
[19:21] <tumbleweed> re motif, massive build system changes also need feature freeze exceptions (they are risky)
[19:21]  * tumbleweed must mail him...
[19:22] <Elbrus> micahg: that is exactly my attitude
[19:22] <tumbleweed> closer to the end of the freeze, uploads will all be reviewed by the release team, but we aren't there yet...
[19:22] <Elbrus> better safe than sorry
[19:22]  * tumbleweed stops asking questions
[19:23] <Elbrus> @ finalfreeze I guess?
[19:23] <meetingology> Elbrus: Error: "finalfreeze" is not a valid command.
[19:23] <Elbrus> oops
[19:23] <bdrung> :)
[19:24] <micahg> Elbrus: FTR, Kubuntu not being supported was a Canonical decision, not an Ubuntu project decision, so I guess the project is perfect then? :D
[19:24] <ScottK> Elbrus: If you were on the release team and had to deal with all the bugs filed by people who file for an exception for every upload, you might not say better safe than sorry ...
[19:24] <Elbrus> I wrote that some time ago indeed
[19:24] <Elbrus> and I understand that
[19:25] <ScottK> It actually doesn't change much since Kubuntu people did most of the security updates for Kubuntu packages anyway.
[19:25] <Elbrus> ScottK: sure
[19:25] <Elbrus> I meant: reading up on the moment
[19:25] <Elbrus> and CHECK that what I have in mind is all right
[19:25] <Elbrus> and only when unsure: ask
[19:26] <Elbrus> I did that with one of my Debian uploads recently, as I considered it quite disruptive.
[19:27] <bdrung> you can ask on IRC if you are unsure whether it is needed or not (before filing a freeze exception)
[19:27] <Elbrus> only the important part was excepted
[19:27] <Elbrus> exactly
[19:27] <Elbrus> I am on #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu (asking and answering once in a while)
[19:29] <stgraber> #vote PPU for Paul Gevers (winff, daisy-player, ebook-speaker and cacti)
[19:29] <meetingology> Please vote on: PPU for Paul Gevers (winff, daisy-player, ebook-speaker and cacti)
[19:29] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[19:29] <ScottK> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
[19:29] <micahg> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[19:29] <bdrung> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[19:29] <stgraber> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[19:29] <tumbleweed> +1
[19:29] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[19:29] <stgraber> #endvote
[19:29] <meetingology> Voting ended on: PPU for Paul Gevers (winff, daisy-player, ebook-speaker and cacti)
[19:29] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:29] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:30]  * Elbrus thanks you
[19:30] <bdrung> Elbrus: most developers are in these channels. You can go into #ubuntu-release if you want to talk to the release team directly.
[19:30] <micahg> Elbrus: congratulations
[19:30] <bdrung> congrats Elbrus
[19:30] <stgraber> congrats!
[19:30] <stgraber> #topic MOTU Applications
[19:30] <stgraber> #subtopic Vibhav Pant
[19:31] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/MOTUApplication
[19:31] <stgraber> vibhav: ping
[19:33] <stgraber> waiting 2 more minutes
[19:36] <stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)
[19:37] <stgraber> next chair will be barry
[19:37] <stgraber> #topic Any other business
[19:37] <tumbleweed> meeting rescheduling?
[19:37] <bdrung> tumbleweed: to which timeslots?
[19:38] <tumbleweed> micahg: will you set up a doodle poll?
[19:38] <micahg> yes
[19:38] <micahg> (probably not until Wed night though)
[19:38]  * vibhav waves
[19:41]  * vibhav is sorry for the delay, my alarm clock was set for the wrong time
[19:41] <stgraber> hi vibhav, we're quickly checking whether the members can stay a bit longer for your application or whether we should reschedule
[19:42] <stgraber> #topic MOTU Applications
[19:42] <stgraber> #subtopic Vibhav Pant
[19:42] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VibhavPant/MOTUApplication
[19:42] <stgraber> vibhav: hi, can you introduce yourself and your application please?
[19:42] <vibhav> sure
[19:43] <vibhav> I am Vibhav Pant, a current high school student in India.
[19:43] <vibhav> I have been involved with Ubuntu since the ~precise cycle
[19:44] <vibhav> I primarily work on merges and sync from debian, autopkgtests, ftbfs and general upstream changes
[19:45] <vibhav> I was recently told by one of my main sponsors that I should apply for MOTU, and that is what I did
[19:48] <micahg> hi vibhav, what happened with https://code.launchpad.net/~vibhavp/ubuntu/raring/gramophone2/merge-from-debian/+merge/141277 ?
[19:49] <vibhav> micahg: I corrected the fix, but never got the time to upload.
[19:50] <vibhav> Ive got some recent problems with my internet connection
[19:50] <vibhav> which should be fixed by next week
[19:50] <vibhav> that includes 3 more branches (including thoggen) too
[19:53] <vibhav> fyi, my upload bandwith is stuck around ~0.5 kbps
[19:53] <tumbleweed> that's painful
[19:53] <ScottK> Those of us who started with 110 bps modems, aren't impressed.
[19:54] <tumbleweed> heh
[19:54] <tumbleweed> vibhav: in your application, you talk about needs-packaging bugs being neglected
[19:54] <vibhav> tumbleweed: Not surprising if you live in India
[19:55] <tumbleweed> many of us don't want to bring in too many new packages, because if nobody maintains them, they'll cause more pain than they are worth
[19:55] <tumbleweed> do you have any ideas on how we can bring new packages into Ubuntu without them rotting away?
[19:56] <vibhav> tumbleweed: I have this small sketch on this idea
[19:56] <vibhav> I was involving popcon and the rate of FTBFS which would calculate a "rotting score"
[19:56] <vibhav> s/I/It/
[19:57] <micahg> why  not just push to Debian if someone cares about it?
[19:57] <tumbleweed> that's what we generally try to encourage
[19:57] <vibhav> micahg: Yes, I was wondering if I could talk to the debian folks aabout this idea
[19:57] <micahg> and if no one cares about it, it will rot
[19:57] <vibhav> The sketch is still not refined though
[19:58] <vibhav> micahg, tumbleweed : THe truth still remains, the success of a platform is determined by its application developers
[19:58] <vibhav> The*
[19:58] <micahg> vibhav: that's extras :)
[19:59] <tumbleweed> I suspect that may end up being solved by alternative repositories
[19:59] <tumbleweed> yeah, extras
[19:59] <ScottK> vibhav: I've seen some of the sponsor comments that some of your merges carry forward changes that don't need to be retained.  What will keep that from happening in the future if you're MOTU and no longer have things reviewed?
[20:00] <vibhav> ScottK: I have extensively studied some of my mistakes, due to which my rate of upload has (relatively) reduced.
[20:00] <ScottK> Can you give me any examples of cases where you realized you didn't know enough to decide what to do on your own and asked for help?
[20:00] <vibhav> I have always tried to reflect on the changes I will be carrying on
[20:02] <vibhav> ScottK: I dont remember many, but I remember making a sync request for a package I was going to merge, where the change was adding support for a platform which had been then obsoleted by Canonical
[20:03] <ScottK> I do have concern that given your history, you don't always know when to stop and ask questions.
[20:03] <ScottK> Being MOTU doesn't mean having to know everything, but knowing when to stop and ask precisely because you don't know everything is critical.
[20:03] <vibhav> ScottK: I think you are right here, though I have always tried to *not* rush with my uploads
[20:04] <vibhav> and I have improved a bit in my struggle
[20:05] <tumbleweed> how much testing do you do before requesting sponsorship?
[20:05] <vibhav> tumbleweed: I have an old Dell laptop lying around which I use as a build server
[20:06] <tumbleweed> so, you test build
[20:06] <tumbleweed> I assume you know how to test autopkgtests?
[20:06] <vibhav> (via pbuilder)
[20:06] <vibhav> tumbleweed: I now test all of my autopktest uploads
[20:06] <vibhav> sure
[20:07] <vibhav> tumbleweed: though pitti sometimes does that for me (internet)
[20:07] <tumbleweed> do you ever install the debs you built, and see that they install correctly and/or the programs run?
[20:08] <vibhav> tumbleweed: I did it for a recent FTBFS fix and always attempt it for merges
[20:08] <tumbleweed> (I don't do this for every upload, but when I think there's some risk of it not working, I do)
[20:08] <vibhav> I test syncs only by compiling
[20:08] <vibhav> tumbleweed: of course, if the changes don't conflict, I sometimes hold of installing. I just build
[20:08] <tumbleweed> assuming we gave you upload rights tonight, would you sync a library package tomorrow?
[20:08] <vibhav> off, even
[20:09] <vibhav> tumbleweed: FF is taken effect, I would certainly proceed with extreme caution
[20:09] <tumbleweed> right, so what kind of things would make you say no, this is a bad idea?
[20:09] <vibhav> s/is/has/
[20:10] <vibhav> WE are going to hit Final Beta Freeze soon now
[20:11] <vibhav> So, I wil upload it only if it has some _critical_ bugs
[20:11] <tumbleweed> and what if it has new features, and some critical bug fixes?
[20:12] <vibhav> tumbleweed: I think I wil request the release team to intervene
[20:12] <vibhav> If they grant a FFE, sure
[20:12] <micahg> vibhav: are all packages frozen at beta freeze?
[20:13] <vibhav> micahg: no, the seeded packages
[20:13] <vibhav> (that include official variants)
[20:14] <vibhav> these packages do require the release team to approve
[20:14] <stgraber> ok, we're out of time. Time to vote
[20:14] <stgraber> #vote Vibhav Pant for MOTU
[20:14] <meetingology> Please vote on: Vibhav Pant for MOTU
[20:14] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:15] <stgraber> +0 [My feeling based on the feedback I received and the present discussion is that you clearly have experience and technical skills, but I'm not confident that you know your limits and will ask when unsure.]
[20:15] <meetingology> +0 [My feeling based on the feedback I received and the present discussion is that you clearly have experience and technical skills, but I'm not confident that you know your limits and will ask when unsure.] received from stgraber
[20:16] <bdrung> +1 [ please ask questions if needed ]
[20:16] <meetingology> +1 [ please ask questions if needed ] received from bdrung
[20:17] <ScottK> -1
[20:17] <meetingology> -1 received from ScottK
[20:17] <tumbleweed> +0 [ The work looks good, but I'm concerned about the number of endorsers saying "slow down". for broad upload rights, I'd like some strong endorsements ]
[20:17] <meetingology> +0 [ The work looks good, but I'm concerned about the number of endorsers saying "slow down". for broad upload rights, I'd like some strong endorsements ] received from tumbleweed
[20:17] <ScottK> I think you're doing mostly good work, but I'd like to see more consistency, more questions, and a bit better understanding of feezes.
[20:18] <stgraber> micahg: ?
[20:19] <micahg> +0 [variety looks good, but number of iterations per fix still seem high]
[20:19] <meetingology> +0 [variety looks good, but number of iterations per fix still seem high] received from micahg
[20:19] <vibhav> ScottK: My exams had recently ended. So I was inactive for some time
[20:19] <stgraber> #endvote
[20:19] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Vibhav Pant for MOTU
[20:19] <meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
[20:19] <meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
[20:19] <tumbleweed> hrm, I only spoke about endorsements, but that really means I want to see good evidence of understanding ones own limits, and asking for help when pushing the boundaries
[20:19] <ScottK> vibhav: I'm sure you'll get this in time.  Keep going.
[20:19] <vibhav> sure!
[20:20] <stgraber> vibhav: sorry, you weren't successful this time around though everyone acknowledged that you are doing some good work, and I'm sure we'll see you apply again soon.
[20:21] <vibhav> alrighty
[20:21] <stgraber> vibhav: I also want to re-iterate what some others said, please slow down, take more time looking at the changes you make and when unsure, please ask someone before sending it for upload.
[20:22] <vibhav> stgraber: I will surely try
[20:22] <tumbleweed> oh, and good luck with those exams
[20:22] <stgraber> alright, well, see you all in ~2 weeks (depending on whether we change day or not, will be decided by e-mail)
[20:22] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[20:22] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Mar 25 20:22:39 2013 UTC.
[20:22] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-19.01.moin.txt
[20:22] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-25-19.01.html
[20:22] <vibhav> tumbleweed: thanks!