/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/27/#ubuntu-server.txt

Iapetus;_;00:02
Iapetushmm00:46
hallynstgraber: drat.  might be worth a bug against qemu and QEMU01:38
hallynthx01:38
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plan_1What is the command to print and update a logfile onscreen? I know there is watch but that oly works for a log such as dmesg as far as I kknow.04:56
sarnoldplan_1: tail -F ?04:56
plan_1sarnold: That looks useful but I haven't seen it update yet do you know how often it should update?05:00
sarnoldplan_1: quite quickly; perhaps the slowness is the writing to the log file.05:01
sarnoldplan_1: writing to files via a standard output typically buffers 4096 bytes or so, thta might be a bunch of lines...05:01
sarnoldplan_1: e.g., grep's --line-buffered command line option will ask it to use line-buffering rather than block-buffering, so tail -f and tail -F and so forth respond more quickly.05:02
plan_1sarnold: Thanks, looks like i have connections on 5044005:07
plan_1sarnold: But the firewall is not allowing them does that imply kernel level problems would you say?05:08
Iapetus awesome, I got it working from a friend of mine. Can someone confirm?05:08
Iapetushttp://71.10.98.41:8000/05:08
sarnoldIapetus: woot!05:08
plan_1sarnold: Well it is not set to allow them that is.05:09
sarnoldplan_1: you'd have to compare netstat -lnp output against the iptables -L output05:09
Iapetuscan you reach it sarnold?05:10
sarnoldIapetus: yeah, some anime screenshot and so forth :)05:10
Iapetussick05:10
Iapetusfucking networking05:11
plan_1sarnold: It doesnt show in netstat only iptraf.05:15
plan_1sarnold: I usually do netstat -taupe netstat -lpn is showing unix sockets and I don't really know what all of that means.05:16
sarnoldplan_1: l just shows listening sockets.. perhaps it's an already-connected socket?05:17
plan_1sarnold: If it is kernel level would it not also escape netstat as the evidence suggests?05:17
sarnoldplan_1: what problem are you trying to debug btw? :)05:18
plan_1sarnold: Oh ok let me glance at the netstat man to display connected sockets.05:18
plan_1sarnold: Unless you know off the top of your head what the netstat command would be.05:19
plan_1sarnold: Reguardless of netstat I made the iptables list myself and know it is not allowing these connections showing in iptables. So what do you think kernel level problems?05:23
plan_1sarnold: Still with me?05:26
sarnoldplan_1: I'm afraid I was never with you :/ I don't know what problem you're trying to solve.05:27
plan_1sarnold: The problem is unsolicited network connections.05:27
plan_1sarnold: You know the whole iptables not set to allow them bit.05:30
plan_1sarnold: Is that not plain english?05:30
sarnoldplan_1: so, you've got network connections that you don't want? don't know which program is accepting them? not sure why iptables has let them through? or... I'm still not following. :)05:31
plan_1sarnold: All of the above.05:32
plan_1sarnold: How about this one why doesn't netstat show domain connections when using -taupe?05:38
sarnoldplan_1: what's a "domain connection"?05:40
plan_1sarnold: If you check /etc/services it id udp port 53 DNS05:42
plan_1Remember me highvoltage ?05:45
sarnoldplan_1: udp is connectionless; even when connect(2) is used on a UDP socket, it doesn't actually set up a connection, it just adds some filtering rules to the socket05:45
sarnoldplan_1: my netstat -anu output doesn't show any outgoing DNS, even though I'm sure my system is doing DNS once in a while ...05:45
plan_1sarnold: That is what I thought more of a broadcasting but why the -u option in netstat then?05:45
sarnoldplan_1: just to show only udp05:46
sarnoldno need to see tcp if you're curious only about dns :)05:46
plan_1sarnold: No I mean since udp is connectionless why is there a -u option since they will never show.05:46
sarnoldplan_1: ah! because listening sockets still show up05:47
plan_1sarnold: Well there is no allowance for high port udp so there must be kernel level problems here.05:50
plan_1I know it is not the Ubuntu way but is there somehow I may get a clean system I am willing to pay $100.05:52
plan_1Remember me highvoltage ?05:55
plan_1Remember me highvoltage ?06:00
plan_1Remember me highvoltage ?06:06
sarnoldhis connection is just timing out, over and over again...06:08
plan_1Anyone know how to induce vomiting, I just ate some easter candy and it is making me sick that and the cans of dog food called beef stew.06:08
plan_1Does the rest of the world get this canned protien textures mixed with preservatives?06:09
plan_1Im in Missouri.06:10
plan_1Is this type of stuff in europe also?06:10
plan_1Or australia?06:10
histoplan_1: eat burnt toast06:11
plan_1histo: How much does it usually take you?06:13
histoplan_1: huh?  the charcoal will make you puke06:14
plan_1I might try the finger throat method as I have no toast.06:14
histoif you go to a hospital that's what they will give you charcoal06:14
plan_1histo: I was asking how many slices.06:14
histoplan_1: no idea never really tried just have heard about it.06:14
plan_1finger throat method hurts too bad06:17
plan_1cancel that idea, so what are you up to histo06:21
linociscowho is using asterisk on ubuntu server?06:35
plan_1For what06:35
plan_1The crap is basically unusable06:36
linociscoplan_1, IP PBX06:36
histolinocisco: what would a person use asterisk for?  like voip telephony or something? I guess I have to watch some videos06:37
plan_1and assume you are talking to who on the other end?06:37
plan_1akams AI06:37
plan_1time to slay hells angels06:38
plan_1ok koolhead17 im working on it06:39
koolhead17plan_1, ?06:40
plan_1hoot n cold06:40
plan_1if everyone else is lukewarm06:40
plan_1fagboys walking around with "smart" phones06:44
plan_1yelling like idiots06:45
plan_1and a loud mouth slut following them06:46
plan_1you want me to get cold as ice koolhead1706:46
plan_1"I killed all husnock everywhere"06:53
plan_1The agents?06:55
plan_1If they dont work for me they are agents of nothing.06:55
plan_1Unpredictable.06:56
greppyplan_1: do you actually have anything ubuntu related to talk about?06:57
plan_1Yeah but it gets ignored.06:57
plan_1see how sarnold just kindof drifted off06:57
plan_1hey bazhang thanks for writing the skeleton any chance I may get a clean kernel I have $10007:01
plan_1The LORD is my shepheard I shall now want.07:06
bazhangplan_1, please stay on topic07:07
* plan_1 laughes07:07
linociscohisto, yes. for voip pbx07:16
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Styler2goHello. I have some strange things happening with my Ubuntu Server. Since a few Days i am getting a huge load in "Connections through firewall" and " ipconntrack". Is there a way to see whats happening there?09:54
ikoniaI spy a linux format editor....10:15
vezqStyler2go: use tcpdump to see network traffic10:47
plan1Is there a way to get the firewall to actually work?11:03
patdk-lapplan1, sure, load the modules for it :)11:19
evilnickveitchikonia, where?11:28
ikoniaevilnickveitch: he's wearing an evil disguise, and he maybe an ex-editor11:36
Styler2gowhat can i do with tcpdump?11:45
jpdsStyler2go: dump tcp traffic.11:47
jpdsStyler2go: Dump all network traffic actually.11:48
jamespagezul: http://people.canonical.com/~jamespage/ca-updates/11:51
jamespageif you would be so kind :-)11:51
zuljamespage:  +1 (although not offically here yet)11:52
jamespagezul, lol11:52
jamespageokies11:52
Davieyjamespage: penstack components in quantal queue.. 2013-02-21 .. those ones are good?12:09
Davieyor totally superseeded by 2013-03-22?12:09
jamespageDaviey, superceded by 2013-03-2212:10
jamespageDaviey, ugh - did you already accept those ones?12:10
Davieyjamespage: no12:11
Davieyjamespage: 2013-03-22 is good?12:14
jamespageDaviey, yes - thats what I prepared last week12:17
jamespageits the original srus with the security updates applied12:17
Davieyright12:18
Davieyjamespage: quantum (2013-03-01) is good?12:20
jamespageDaviey, yep12:21
jamespagethats a missing bit from the original SRU update that adam_g prepared12:21
Davieyjamespage: except adam didn't add a bug reference to the changelog. *sigh*.  I need that.12:21
jamespageDaviey, bah - OK - please reject it and I'll sort that out12:21
Davieydone12:22
mkander_Hey everybody, I just installed a new motherboard asus p8z77-v in my server, and now I cant get the network up12:38
mkander_Any hint on what to do? Please help me.12:38
mkander_"Cannot find device eth0"12:39
qman__mkander_, sudo rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules && sudo reboot12:44
qman__if that doesn't fix it, you lack driver support12:44
Davieymkander_: ifconfig .. it might not be called ethX12:45
mkander_Ok Ill try that qman__12:45
mkander_Daviey: just "lo" in there12:45
Davieyok12:45
mkander_wow looks like it worked :-)12:46
mkander_YEEEhaa :)12:47
mkander_thanks12:47
zuljamespage/yolanda: https://code.launchpad.net/~zulcss/cinder/rc3/+merge/15572312:53
yolandazul, no changes apart from version number?12:54
zulyep12:54
jamespagezul, approved12:54
jamespage(thats my release that is)12:55
virtxhi13:07
virtxwhat is a good monitoring tool (for monitoring webserver/mysql/php-fcgi, networking) in CLI or really light application? htop is not so sufficient..13:08
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hallynstgraber: the lxc-start-ephemeral manpage says '-n name' is an option, but it's not inthe soruce13:13
Picivirtx: There are a few 'top-like' packages in the repositories for apache and mysql. It really all depends what sort of monitoring you are trying to do.13:14
stgraberhallyn: ah yeah, I remember seeing that and forgot to fix it. Will do today13:14
hallynstgraber: cool, thanks :)13:15
virtxPici, what do 'top-like' tools do?13:15
Piciapachetop says "It is modelled after the standard 'top' utility, and displays information such as the requests pers second, bytes per second and the most popular URLs displayed."13:16
virtxgood, and for mysql?13:16
virtxfor networking i'm using iftop, but vnstat seems better13:17
Picivnstat is pretty nifty.13:17
Pici!info mytop13:18
ubottumytop (source: mytop): top like query monitor for MySQL. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6-6 (quantal), package size 34 kB, installed size 152 kB13:18
virtxwell, i try it13:18
virtxPici: isn't there an apachetop tool for other webservers?13:19
virtxlike nginx, lighttp13:19
Picivirtx: There might be.  Try: apt-cache search nginx top   or a similar query13:20
zuljamespage:  http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/ca/13:21
virtxPici: nothing :\13:22
stgraberhallyn: patch for -n/--name sent to lxc-devel13:28
hallynstgraber: cool, thx.  getting ready to send a lxc-clone patch13:31
jamespagezul, +113:50
zuljamespage:  thanks cinder ca right?13:50
jamespagezul, yep13:50
zuljamespage:  k thanks13:50
zuljamespage:  did you promote the other ones this morning?13:52
jamespagezul, everything pending is in proposed13:52
jamespagehttp://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/cloud-archive/grizzly_versions.html13:52
zuljamespage:  cool thanks13:52
zulnow we just need python-ceilometerclient13:52
jamespagezul, I'll flush through to updates now13:52
jamespagezul, OK - synced through13:54
jamespagezul, so just pending ceph (which I just uploaded), cinder rc313:55
jamespageand ceilometerclient when it arrives :-)13:55
zuljamespage:  ack13:55
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stgraberhallyn: hey, is it just me mis-reading the diff or do you end up with lxc.rootfs defined twice in the config?14:10
hallynstgraber: doesn't show up twice14:12
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jibelstgraber, hallyn re bug 1160360 following ogra_'s comment I tried FLASH_KERNEL_SKIP=true and update-initramfs works fine even with flash-kernel installed. Is it something that could be set by default in the template too ?14:18
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1160360 in lxc "flash-kernel failed in an armhf lxc container on ARM: /usr/sbin/flash-kernel: 214: /usr/sbin/flash-kernel: mkimage: not found" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116036014:18
stgraberjibel: no, we don't do rootfs modifications from the templates14:18
stgraberjibel: as we support copying the rootfs from an existing machine into a container14:19
stgraberjibel: so it'd have to be a change in the flash-kernel package to check running-in-container and do the equivalent of FLASH_KERNEL_SKIP=true in that case14:19
jibelstgraber, okay14:21
ogra_stgraber, jibel, patches accepted :)14:30
sliddjurwhen doing this: mkdir /long/path/name/newdir/ && touch /long/path/name/newdir/newfile  is there a way to evade typing /long/path/name/newdir a 2nd time?14:33
jibelogra_, checking running-in-container in initramfs-hook/flash-kernel would be fine?14:34
ogra_jibel, well, check the flash-kernel code ... it should be added everywhere where you find the env var14:35
jibelogra_, okay, I'll send a patch. thanks14:36
ogra_thanks too ! :)14:36
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savrhi, there is no reason for gstreamer and qt to be installed on my server?15:18
savr(they were installed by default)15:18
savr?15:25
RoyK¿15:27
savrhi, there is no reason for gstreamer and qt to be installed on my server? RoyK <<15:32
savrand I can also remove samba?15:33
RoyKsavr: do you have little disk space?15:34
savrno I just don't want junk installed15:34
savreasier to debug problems15:34
RoyKit doesn't matter15:34
RoyKstuff not running doesn't make bugs15:34
savrfor example I had apache installed and it took me ages to figure out why tomcat wasn't working properly...15:35
savrturned out apache was proxying tomcat automagically15:35
RoyKsavr: that's running processes15:35
RoyKsavr: not installed software15:35
savrsamba would also be running15:36
RoyKthen stop it, or just uninstall it15:36
savractually... apache2 package isn't installed by default...15:36
RoyKsamba isn't installed automatically. neither is apache15:36
savrit is apache2-common or something like that...15:36
RoyKthat doesn't contain any daemosn15:36
savrI'm using a packaged version of ubuntu to openvz15:36
RoyKdaemons, even15:36
RoyKsavr: worry about then if a problem arises15:37
RoyKimho samba shouldn't be installed unless yo need windows connectivity15:37
savralso it saves a ton of time upgrading15:37
savrI don't15:37
savrremoving15:37
* ogra_ wonders how you got it installed in the first place ... neither qt nor gstreamer nor samba are in an ubuntu server default install unless you actively select them15:39
RoyKogra_: 16:36 < savr> I'm using a packaged version of ubuntu to openvz15:40
ogra_oh15:40
ogra_missed that15:40
ogra_scary15:40
savrnot sure if it is a good idea to use the ubuntu openvz template15:40
smbsmoser, About bug 1160543. Is that repeatable? In which case I might be inclined to build a test kernel with the anticipated upstream changes. ;)15:41
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1160543 in linux "kernel crash on EC2 raring" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116054315:41
smosersmb, embarrasingly, the first i personally played with raring on ec2 was yesterday.15:41
smoserand i started an lxc container, stopped it and stareted  and stopped15:42
smoserand it crashed.15:42
RoyKsavr: dpkg -l | pastebinit15:42
smoser(i thought i'd busted networking). i dont know much more about it.15:42
savrI'm on mosh... need to ssh once the upgrade is finish15:43
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yolandajamespage: https://code.launchpad.net/~yolanda.robla/charms/precise/glance/ha-support/+merge/15577115:47
savrapt-get upgrade takes forever on openvz :/16:01
RoyKtoo many packages installed? slow host?16:02
savrI'm the host16:03
savrssh into the mysql node... http://pastebin.com/iJ6azVa816:03
savrogra_: RoyK smoser smb16:06
smosersavr, dpkg/apt is sync-heavy16:07
savrgot gstreamer gtk can be remove too?16:08
smosersee 'unsafe-io' (man dpkg) or 'eatmydata'16:08
savrapt-get purge -y openjdk-\* icedtea-\* icedtea6-\* apache\* x11-\* samba\* libgtk\* libgstreamer\*16:10
savrthat should clean it all up?16:10
RoyKsavr: pastebin dpkg -l ;)16:14
savrI have16:14
RoyKoh16:15
RoyKthere16:15
smbsmoser, Well ok, I think that it might be related to lxc's usage of mem cgroups.16:15
RoyKmysql?16:15
savryeah that is the mysql node16:16
savrso it needs mysql16:16
RoyKok16:16
* RoyK isn't a big fan of mysql16:16
savrso anything else I should get rid of?16:19
RoyKnot sure - a lot of libraries you might not need, though16:21
RoyKhow much does the root fs fill up now?16:21
savrdunno16:22
savrit is slowly still removing on two more nodes16:22
savrit's really slow the server isn't doing anything other than running apt on a few nodes right now16:22
sarnoldsavr: the 'deborphan' package can help find packages that aren't needed any more -- but be careful with its recommendations, it'll happily recommend a leaf package that you _want_ -- but with a careful hand driving it, very useful. :)16:23
savrI've got 3 nodes running only apt right now. and that is all on the server16:23
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highvolt1gestgraber: I suppose you've seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wW9CAH9nSLs#at=291 already?18:21
stgraberhallyn, sarnold: I think I finally understand bug 1157332. The logic in the package itself is correct for raring, but the problem is when you upgrade from precise or quantal to raring as the migration code is then triggered twice19:21
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1157332 in lxc "/etc/dnsmasq.d-available/lxc circular link " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115733219:21
sarnoldstgraber: yay :)19:22
hallynstgraber: oh no, is that going to be the same for libvirt?19:22
stgraberI'm confirming I can easily reproduce this with 12.10 => 13.04. If I can, then I'll add some code to fix the mess. It's easy enough to detect the circular link from the postinst, move everything back to normal and restart dnsmasq19:22
hallynsigh19:22
hallynthx :)19:23
stgraberthe good news being that in the worst case scenario we just need to fix raring + quantal. I don't think we need to SRU something to precise this time around19:24
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sarnoldstgraber: did it only trigger for me because I had upgraded precise->quantal->raring ?19:24
stgrabersarnold: I certainly confirmed that precise->quantal->raring causes it, but I suspect just quantal->raring will too19:25
sarnoldstgraber: aha19:25
stgrabersarnold: right, quantal->raring => broken links19:29
stgraberalright, now to fix that mess :)19:30
sarnoldstgraber: good luck :) it sounds frustrating :)19:30
stgrabersarnold: it's just frustrating because it's the 3rd time we have to fix it and we'll likely have to re-upload twice 3 different sources to get rid of it entirely19:31
sarnoldstgraber: oh _man_ :/19:31
stgraberlibvirt, lxc and network-manager share the same bit of code and we have it in precise, quantal and raring19:31
stgraberhallyn: hmm, so the problem is trivial to see but hard to fix ;)19:33
stgraberhallyn: in short, we have the migration code in .maintscripts which tells dpkg to move the file if the previous version is older than X19:33
stgraberhallyn: the problem being that we have 3 possible value of X depending on whether we're coming from precise, quantal or raring19:34
stgraberhallyn: so our upgrade code is perfectly fine for users upgrading from initial raring to current raring, but will trigger twice (or more) for those coming from precise or quantal19:34
stgraberhallyn: with the problem being that if we set that value to the oldest version with dnsmasq support (current SRU in precise), we may miss triggering for people upgrading from old quantal or old raring19:35
stgraberin short, I think we should keep .maintscripts as it's, because it's not wrong. Then add some postinst code to detect double-migration and fix it19:35
stgraberI'll test a fix here and attach to the bug report with details of my findinds, because the SRU team will want to know the details for sure (as it won't be good, clean packaging changes ;))19:36
stgrabersarnold: do you still have your broken dnsmasq setup or did you fix it?19:37
hallynstgraber: it's also frustrating because the libvirt one isn't even accepted itno -proposed yet :)19:40
hallync'est la vie19:41
stgraberhallyn: alright, I have a fix19:41
hallynstgraber: cool.  maybe the fix will explain to me why we can't just use explicit package version comparisons in pre/postinst to fix it :)19:42
stgraberhallyn: because we need explicit version comparison + series comparison19:44
sarnoldstgraber: I certainly don't _like_ my current dnsmasq setup -- I either have to type sec-precise-amd64.local _or_ I no longer get local LAN resolving. :/ I'm going to try a reboot after I fiddled with a few settings though19:44
stgraberhallyn: as in, we need our migration code to trigger if the previous version is "<= X on precise" or "<= Y on precise" or "<= Z on raring"19:45
stgraberhallyn: currently we just have it as "<= Z on raring" so anything that's lower than the original raring version will be migrated even if it already was through an SRU19:45
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hallynstgraber: bleh :)19:49
stgraberhallyn: bug updated with patch. I had slangasek take a quick look to see that I wasn't insane and that it's the "best" way of fixing the mess and he seems to agree.20:07
stgraberhallyn: I'll just do another precise -> quantal -> raring upgrade, then run my new postinst and see if that fixes it. If it does, I'll upload lxc to raring and quantal-proposed20:07
hallynstgraber: cyphermox will do network-manager I recon?20:07
stgraberhallyn: I guess so. I'll open tasks for all 3 packages as usual and target to quantal + raring20:08
stgraberI really hope it's the last time we need to go through that mess20:08
hallynstgraber: I'll copy it over to libvirt then, thanks.20:08
hallynstgraber: wait, so it doesn't apply to precise?20:08
hallynpretty sure I had a precise bug open for libvirt for the original20:09
stgraberprecise is broken but the broken bits won't ever be called, so it's fine20:09
hallynoh, right, so that's only for this bug.  got it20:09
* hallyn being silly20:09
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cyphermoxhallyn: stgraber: what bug?20:21
stgrabercyphermox: bug 115733220:25
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1157332 in network-manager "/etc/dnsmasq.d-available/lxc circular link " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115733220:25
stgrabercyphermox: yet another fallout of the dnsmasq stuff :)20:25
SpamapSutlemming: hey, wondering how you get the cloudimage-rootfs label on the ubuntu cloud images. Is that code somewhere visible?20:29
utlemmingIts done via a custom code branch of Live-build. It's old and will get updated next cylce. But here it is: lp:~ubuntu-on-ec2/live-build/cloud-images/20:30
Questhow to open port 80 in ubuntu? (i dont have any GUI)20:30
SpamapSQuest: man ufw20:31
QuestSpamapS,  is the default firewall of ubuntu is iptables? and i need iptables command?20:33
jcastro_ufw is a convenience wrapper for iptables20:34
stgraberQuest: ufw is the recommended CLI frontend for iptables20:34
jcastro_https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW20:34
stgraberQuest: however by default on Ubuntu systems, we don't firewall anything, so just installing apache (or any web server) should just work without explicitly opening tcp/8020:34
Questcan i do that directtly by iptables20:35
SpamapSutlemming: ty20:35
* stgraber loves ephemeral containers + gigabit mirror, precise => quantal => raring all done in 2min20:38
stgrabergetting a nice 82MB/s from the local proxy+mirror20:39
ogra_grr20:40
* ogra_ is envious20:41
stgraberogra_: still on 2Mbps SDSL? or did you upgrade to something from this decade? :)20:41
ogra_to lazy20:42
ogra_and i wouldnt have anything to moan about20:42
stgraberyou know that if you continue like that cjwatson will have a better internet connection than you do, right? :)20:42
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ogra_i might just upgrade to LTE then ... phones are stacking up around me recently20:43
stgraberif you can get reasonable pricing for LTE, sure. I only enjoy reasonably priced LTE when I'm in Switzerland. Where I live in Canada I can't find anything with more than 6GB a month and even 6GB is around 70$ so way too expensive.20:45
stgraberand so far I've only found a single ISP here that's crazy enough to sell me unmetered internet, the others still put limits at 500GB or similar and then I'd have to pay crazy expensive extras for the remaining 1.5TB or so...20:47
ogra_wow20:47
ogra_thats bad20:48
stgraberI should really poke my ISP at some point and ask what percentage of their total IPv6 bandwith I'm using, because at 1.5TB a month, I'm sure it's a very significant chunk of their total IPv6 traffic (for a fairly small consumer ISP) ;)20:49
stgraberhallyn: new LXC uploaded to quantal and raring20:56
stgraberhallyn: I'll ask for a new backport to precise once quantal is moved to quantal-updates20:56
stgraberhallyn: now to test your lxc-clone change and I'll be done with lxc for the day (and hopefully, the week ;))20:58
zulutlemming: do you know why walinuxagent got rejected?21:05
hallynstgraber: the lxc-start-ephemeral -n change ending up in yoru ppa will be helpful to me :)21:05
stgraberhallyn: yeah, it should be there tomorrow. So far I just applied it to my local copy of the script for testing21:06
Darkstar1qq I just accidentally deleted everything in a directory is there anyway to undelete what I just did?21:50
sarnoldDarkstar1: first, give up hope. They're probably gone. Second, the 'recover' package claims it can recover data using debugfs from ext2 filesystems. Maybe debugfs can help with ext3 as well. But, uh, I'd be surprised.21:53
Darkstar1sarnold: Thanks. Hope is now crushed21:56
Googol30I have a couple of spare hard drives laying around, and am experimenting RAIDing my boot drive. I'm wondering if I can safely shrink my existing boot partition to mirror a (much) smaller drive without screwing something up, and if I can do that in such a way that I can expand that into a RAID5, then RAID6, after RAID1?22:01
Googol30The drive I am trying to mirror with is 10GB, the current boot partition is 55GB, and I have about 6GB of data on the boot partition.  I'm worried there might be a problem with fragmented files and concatenation screwing something up.22:01
Googol30I've been given the suggestion that I should make backups before attempting this, so if someone can give me information on how to implement a backup scheme (preferrably a Tower of Hanoi solution) in addition to RAID, that would be phenomenally helpful.22:09
sarnoldGoogol30: rsnapshot is pretty keen22:15
sarnoldGoogol30: I've got rsnapshot making houryly, daily, weekly, backups, between two hard drives  on my laptop; it goes ~100 gigs of data in two minutes most times..22:15
hallynis that at all related to rdiff-backup?22:16
sarnoldhallyn: I don't think so...22:18
hallynjust wondering22:19
sarnoldrsnapshot uses raw rsync22:19
Googol30sarnold: Does rsnapshot take advantage of "journaling" which I've heard the ext series of filesystems uses?  I haven't quite looked into filesystem types or features recently.22:23
sarnoldGoogol30: as far as I know, the journalling in ext3, ext4, and related filesystems happens entirely without the application being aware22:24
sarnoldGoogol30: it isn't like using a filesystem snapshot, as offered by zfs or btrfs -- journalling is just a way to try to offer asynchronous speeds with synchronous safety.22:24
xnoxlvm also gives snapshots and is more stable than zfs/btrfs22:25
sarnoldGoogol30: ah yes, see xnox's comment. if you want to use snapshotting, consider using LVM snapshots (block-level) rather than filesystem level snapshots, as LVM snapshots are far better tested .. and feel 'simpler' (to me, anyway)22:27
sarnoldGoogol30: I live fast and loose with my data -- _some_ backups are far better than none -- so I don't bother with snapshotting filesystems. I just want to have another handy copy of my data should one drive die.22:27
Googol30sarnold: Which is why I'm in the process of RAIDing and implementing a backup scheme.22:28
sarnoldGoogol30: because it appears you care more about your data than I do mine :D hehe22:29
Googol30I have data which I can't afford to lose, and making manual backups when I feel like it is becoming tedious.  Additionally, server availability is important as well, and since I have a couple hard drives laying around, I thought I might experiment with RAID.22:32
Googol30About backups: are snapshots an acceptable form of backing up a disk?22:34
patdk-lapheh?22:36
patdk-lapsnapshots != backup22:36
patdk-lapif they where, they would be called backups22:36
patdk-lapraid is not a backup22:36
patdk-lapbackups are what you use when you accidentally drop the server in a lake, under a forklift, when the building burns down22:37
Googol30I'm aware that RAID is not a backup.  It is simply for availability.  And I was assuming snapshots are a form of backing up data.22:37
patdk-lapraid is what you use to keep the system running while it has a disk failure22:37
patdk-lapsnapshots can be used like a, instant available history22:38
sarnold.. and snapshots are what you do to get a more-consistent view of the data _while making a backup_22:38
xnoxGoogol30: base dies -> all snapshots based on the base are dead as well.22:38
xnoxGoogol30: it's incremental "back-up" with stress on "incrementals"22:38
patdk-lapreverse incremental22:39
Googol30So what's the difference between snapshots and actual backups?  And what do you suggest for offsite backups, as I don't feel like relying on other entities to keep my data safe, nor do I feel like dealing with setting an autonomous version of that up.22:41
Googol30Correction: I don't feel like paying another company for something which I can do myself, just as reliably.22:43
sarnoldGoogol30: a backup is a physically separate copy of the data; a snapshot is an "frozen" _view_ of the data in the past that some programs will see, while other programs are allowed to keep making changes to the data22:45
=== Jikan is now known as Jikai
patdk-lapthe issue is, someone doing something stupid to the disk will kill the snapshot and your data22:46
sarnoldGoogol30: for "production" sorts of systems, you might do something to quiesce your databases and similar 'live' systems in a stable state, take a snapshot, then let them run again. then you run a backup tool on the _snapshot_ of the data, to make your physically separate copy of the bits. Once the backup is done, you do something to throw away the snapshot -- and only the 'new' data survives.22:46
patdk-lapand you will need a backup22:46
sarnoldwow. re-reading my description, I'm afraid I only made things worse. heh. :(22:47
patdk-laplikely issues, admin wipes a disk using dd22:47
patdk-lapwhat was it we had a few days ago22:48
patdk-lapsomeone relabeled their zfs disks22:48
Googol30I'm fully aware of what humans can do to a disk or data, which is why I'm going through the process of making backups and RAID.22:49
patdk-lapI don't believe raid fixs human at all22:51
Googol30Additionally, I'm fully aware of what RAID does and what it is for.  Instead of telling me the consequences of _not_ setting a backup scheme up, can you tell me _how_ to set something up?22:52
patdk-lapyou asked22:52
sarnoldGoogol30: I found rsnapshot easy to install and run; the /etc/rsnapshot.conf had reasonable defaults already provided for many settings, and there's LVM integration options in case you want to use them.22:56
=== wedgwood is now known as wedgwood_away
Googol30patdk-lap: To clear up doubt about my knowledge of computers, RAID is a system of physically seperate disks joined to form a single logical disk, which prevents against anomalies such as total disk failures, bad sectors, and human screw-ups such as pushing a disk off a table, because the information is spread out.  You are correct in your repeated statements that RAID is not for data backups, while I am correct in my state23:08
Googol30If you have any other doubts or questions, please ask and I'll clear things up.  With all due respect, I don't like being called wrong when I _know_ that I'm not wrong.23:12
Googol30sarnold: Would I go about installing rsnapshots through apt-get, or must it be downloaded from somewhere?23:13
sarnoldGoogol30: rsnapshot is available for install as usual :)23:17
Googol30And according to patdk-lap, snapshots aren't "real" backups.  Is he correct here, or will snapshots work as some form of backing up data, or supplement backups somehow?23:21
Googol30If he _is_ correct, however, what else would I need to do to actually _backup_ my data?23:21
sarnoldGoogol30: heh, he's correct, snapshots are nothing like backups, since there is still only one copy of the data with a snapshot.23:22
sarnoldGoogol30: snapshots are useful for ensuring data consistency while making a backup.23:22
RoyKhei23:23
Googol30sarnold: So snapshots aid in the production of backups, correct?  What would I need to do in addition to making snapshots to backup that data?  Simply copy that snapshot to another disk?23:24
Googol30sarnold: Should I just install rsnapshot and read the man page?23:25
sarnoldGoogol30: yes, the snapshots give you a consistent state to backup -- the snapshot would live for five or ten minutes while the backup is being made, then you'd collapse it away again23:26
sarnoldGoogol30: you can backup the snapshot data however you wish, with rsnapshot or duplicity or whatever else...23:27
sarnold(duplicity might be nice if you want off-site backups too.)23:27
FUFHi all.. I have a question about ubuntu cloud images.23:59

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