holsteinzequence: Len-nb ping12:10
holsteinwould either of you have some time to talk with las in #ardour ?12:10
ubottuFor information on professional audio tools in Ubuntu, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ProAudioIntro12:11
scott-workzequence: i have posted a blog post and a g+ post about stepping down. i should get it to the mailing list shortly12:41
zequenceholstein: About Ubuntu Studio?12:47
zequencescott-work: Ah, yep. I will reply in a few moments :).12:48
holsteinzequence: correct12:48
holsteinzequence: las was having issues with the pulse to jack bridge in stock ubuntu12:50
holsteinusers of ardour having issues12:50
holsteinhe's working on documentation for them12:50
len-1304holstein, It is likely any such documentation will be out of date already13:23
len-1304There have been changes to pulse code that has taken care of the major pa-jack issues.13:23
len-1304scott-work, Don't be a stranger, we will continue to welcome whatever input you do have if you have time.13:30
falktxhey zequence13:50
falktxzequence: first of, congrats13:52
falktxdo you have a minute?13:52
scott-workthanks len, i do have a few ideas14:04
zequencefalktx: sure, thanks14:04
scott-worki was thinking about the possibility of adding a "first-run" script that asks the user if they wanted to add falktx 's kxstudio repository14:05
scott-work_that_ would also be good for a ubuntu studio controls app as well ;)14:05
falktxzequence: I have to say in all honesty, I don't think you're the right man for the job14:06
falktxzequence: it seems to me you don't understand how some things work, under the hood, and that is a bit bad14:06
falktxzequence: I hope you do a good job though!14:06
falktxfor me, pure Debian or Ubuntu is too limiting, and too much burocracy14:07
falktxI'm doing my own thing but trying to make it as much generic as possible, so it can be used by anyone14:07
zequencefalktx: I don't know everything yet, but things are progressing on the technical side. But, you should know that you will probably not meet someone soon who has as broad understanding of mainly audio production on levels as I, and I am good at organizing14:08
falktxzequence: scott-work: Sorry I couldn't get Cadence to work in time14:08
zequenceI also became member of Debian Multimedia Team yesterday14:08
zequenceMy goal is to improve the whole infrastructure, in all the areas where we are suffering14:08
zequenceAnd to do that, one needs to communicate with all parties14:09
zequenceThe burocracy is not a problem IMO. It's actually more of a do-ocracy14:09
zequenceAs long as what you want to do is good for the community, and not only for yourself. Ubuntu Studio is a multimedia distro, not only for audio14:10
zequenceAny custom audio configs need to be configurable, if they are solely for pro audio14:10
zequence..or get in the way of other things14:10
zequenceFor this, it would be best to have a gui tool14:10
falktxin any case, I have set-up a PPA with just Cadence, if anyone wants to try14:10
zequenceI have used it14:11
zequenceProbably, I should be giving more feedback about it14:11
zequenceCurrently, I'14:11
falktxthere's only a few things that need to be done for a v1.0 release14:11
zequenceCurrently, I would regard it as a nice app to have, as an alternative to other control apps14:11
falktxzequence: I welcome all bug reports here, https://github.com/falkTX/Cadence/issues :)14:11
falktxincluding feature requests14:12
falktxfor now it's all about bug fixing and stability over features though14:12
zequenceI have a lot of ideas on a control app for Ubuntu Studio, also another form of it that could be more of a generic app. I think in order for us to consider Cadence as a default app, or as a default Ubuntu Studio control app, we would need to work more closely on features14:13
zequenceRight now, the most important things I see is that we get jackd working on any Ubuntu or Debian derivative, without too much work14:14
zequenceI'd prefer to do it by getting through a policy change in Debian and Ubuntu concerning groups, but if that doesn't work, it would be nice if a tool could provice this  configuration14:15
falktxcurrently Cadence has 1 big flaw regarding Debian/Ubuntu - it needs jack2 to work14:15
falktxthis is because default jack1 doesn't have dbus, it needs a patch14:15
zequencefalktx: I guess you could add a function to it that greys out everything, if jackdbus is not aviable, and/or just inform the user14:16
zequenceDon't know what issues there would be about patching it in Debian14:16
zequenceI realize, jackdbus is the best default. I'm sorry there is a divide between some people about the development of jack14:16
zequenceWould be nice if there was only one14:17
len-1304what advantage or in what situation would jack 1 be better?14:19
zequencefalktx: When you speak about under the hood, you mean code. And yes, I'm not a coder. that is not my job anyway. My job is to ensure that Ubuntu Studio has the features that users want, and that we promote free software. The coding, I leave to the coders :)14:20
zequenceAs for Debian packaging, and Debian policy, it's just a matter for time before I learn all about it14:20
falktxzequence: I already disable things when jackdbus is not there, so we are on the same page :)14:22
falktxanyway, brb14:22
zequencelen-1304: the picture I get is that there's a divide on how the application is coded, more than on what it does14:23
zequencelas thinks jack1 is no good, but has problems with jack2 as well14:24
zequenceI don't really know14:24
len-1304zequence, that is my take on it too14:24
len-1304jack2 has three threads instead of one... but they both have the saem api14:25
len-1304The only place I can see using jack1 is possibly when using netjack as the code is somewhat more mature14:26
len-1304zequence, I think out of the people involved in Studio, you have the clearest vision of where we should go, plus drive to get there and more time than most.14:31
len-1304you have been willing to assign others to do things.14:31
len-1304I personally think these qualities are more valuable than expertise14:32
zequencelen-1304: Thanks for the condidence. I truly do try to see the problem from the community point of view, and hopefully I can fill Scotts shoes and continue making US an even better OS14:33
len-1304I think your idea to grow the team and the time spent doing so are worth while as lack of people is the biggest problem14:34
zequenceYeah, all though we haven't done a lot of public posts about that yet, we have had a few people coming by, but most people don't stick around14:36
zequenceI'm getting more pleased with the wiki now, which probably is not the most important part of the puzzle, but if I know all the relevant info is there, I will feel more confident when actively hunting for new users14:37
zequencedevs, I mean14:37
len-1304I think people are impatient, nothing happens quickly here.14:37
zequenceI don't know14:38
len-1304Well, my last fix did... two days fromfix to release :)14:38
zequenceSomeone comes by and says, what can I do? I tell them, first, get a LP account. Read this page. Come back tomorrow. Just some initial info. But, if they don't have the motivation, which is perfectly understandable, it's just hard to get any further than that14:39
zequenceI think we were really lucky having madeinkobaia come by14:40
zequenceI think he's really talented, and gets stuff done really quick14:40
len-1304I would really like to see at least one person for each of video,graphics, photography and publishing too.14:41
zequencelen-1304: I agree14:41
zequenceAnd those people don't need to do any coding at all. Just use the apps, and be able to communicate what should be changed, or improved14:41
len-1304Some one who uses the software on a daily basis 14:42
len-1304I see our job as assembling a group of packages and talking to those who do the coding about how they could make their package fit with what people are using it for.14:44
zequenceYeah. Either the problem is in packaging, and then we first fix it in Debian, or as a last resort add a patch in Ubuntu, or we get things changed/fixed upstream14:44
zequencefalktx: Would you be interested in developing either your existing control gui tool, or a variant of it in collaboration with us, getting feedback about possible features, design ideas, etc15:41
falktxzequence: I'm already pretty busy as is, so I would prefer not to start brand new applications15:42
falktxI just want to finish those that I have now, and finally get a real job...15:42
zequencefalktx: What I'm aiming at is getting a control app, that is useful on any Debian derived distro, to adjust certain configs, enable/disble things. 15:43
zequenceI have a project of my own 15:43
zequenceBut, it seems a lot of work reinveinting the wheel all the time15:43
falktxzequence: that's my target too, configure most things auto-related15:43
zequencefalktx: Let me give you an overview of the features that we've been talking about some day, and see what you think15:45
falktxbtw, please see this - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications:Cadence15:45
falktxit's incomplete, but the screenshots reveal what the app does15:46
zequencefalktx: Yeah, I've tried it a few times :)15:46
zequenceAnd been on that page15:46
zequencefalktx: Did it perhaps mess up some LV2 variables a while ago? Just asking15:47
falktxnot that I know15:47
falktxthere was a case of a user that installed cadence and later didn't uninstall correctly15:48
falktxbut it's fixed now with "make uninstall"15:48
zequenceWell, that could be it. I installed it from your PPA15:48
falktxnot an issue on package distros though15:48
zequence..the last time15:48
falktxwell, I didn't got any report from you... :)15:48
zequencesigh, if I was making bug reports about everything I see, I would never get anything else done :(15:49
falktxuse less apps15:49
falktxI do report the errors I find, usually in person15:49
zequenceThe problem is, sometimes you don't know what caused an error, and when. And to find out, you need to put time into it, even before you make the bug report15:50
zequenceI make bug reports when I can15:50
falktxzequence: I'm usually online here, so there's no excuse I think15:50
falktxI didn't knew about this until now15:50
zequenceI still dont' know if it was because of Claudioo15:50
zequenceCadence, I mean15:51
falktxthen I also don't know if I should bother, right?15:51
zequenceWell, if I'll make sure to report any bugs I find about Cadence, will you promise to report any bugs you find in Debian/Ubuntu pro audio?15:52
zequenceAnd I don't only mean upstream15:52
falktxI report them upstream, not debian15:52
zequenceAs that doesn't always help the actual distros15:52
falktxlol, why not?15:53
falktxyou can't expect me to simply go over all distros to report 1 bug15:53
falktxplus, only the current, development version of Ubuntu usually gets fixed15:54
zequenceOften I'll start doing some music, like this time I was mixing an album. I find that LV2 plugins are not working. I google it. Never cared about LV2 variabled before. Saw some note about Cadence. Tried fixing it. Didn't work15:54
zequenceSo, I used another distro, cause I just needed to get the mix done15:54
zequenceI really don't have too little to do15:55
falktxyou're a weird guy15:55
zequenceYou dont' start filing bug reports when you're in the middle of work15:55
falktxheh, but isn't that what opensource is about?15:56
falktxwe need real live testing to know where things need fixing15:56
zequenceSure, when I or someone else actually does some testing15:56
zequenceThat is something I will improve for the next cycle15:56
falktxreal live usage *is* testing15:57
zequenceIt works best on a clean environment15:57
zequenceWhen you have too many variables, you don't want to start bothering people, when you don't know what creates the problem15:57
falktxdepends on the problem15:58
falktxif it's consistent with an action, then report it15:58
zequenceIn any case, you should not claim i do too little. I'm the most active here, probably, and I'm also a full time student, with other interstes as well. I have two bands, and I excercise often15:59
zequenceIf I was a user only, it would be different15:59
falktxI never implied you do too little15:59
falktxI just think we disagree on reporting bugs16:00
falktxin the end it doesn't matter much I guess, since Ubuntu is always a little outdated16:00
zequenceoutdated is not the worst problem. Not working is a much bigger problem16:01
falktxand debug builds ;)16:02
zequenceI can agree that getting jackdbus fixed earlier would have been good. You have probably seen the headache it has caused16:02
falktxhm, what headache?16:02
falktxyou mean, getting it updated?16:02
zequenceIt is fixed now. In -proposed, waiting to be published for both 12.04 and 12.1016:02
zequencenot updated16:02
zequenceIt was buggy16:02
falktxwell it was fixed in upstream directly16:03
falktxI worked on it with nedko16:03
zequenceI remember16:03
falktxit would be awesome if jack1.9.9 could be used intead though16:03
zequenceWhat's the big benefit?16:03
zequenceIt could be backported16:04
falktxyou have a real upstream version, so it's much easier to identify problems16:04
zequenceDoesn't it need updated libs, etc?16:04
falktxcurrently if there's a problem with jack, it will simply not be supported upstream16:04
zequenceUpdated deps..16:04
falktxbecause Ubuntu is using a custom version16:04
falktxzequence: there's no special requirement for 1.9.916:05
falktxit can now do opus instead of celt, but that's an optional new thing16:05
zequenceWell, my only goal was to silence the bug, with as little effort as possible. If someone else did that, the result might be better16:09
zequenceAt least, it won't crash on stop anymore, in a few days from now16:09
falktxcool, that's nice for sure :)16:10
falktxthat bug bothered me as hell for some time16:10
zequenceThe next one I want to fix is PA not letting go of the card, which is another big pain16:10
len-1304falktx, re. jack and opus. how open is that?... wrong way to ask. If I have jack at one end how easy is it to use another app at the other?16:11
falktxlen-1304: heh, no idea, I never used netjack16:11
falktxI only have 1 pc16:11
len-1304zequence, you mean in 12.04/12.10? seems to me it is fixed 13.0416:11
zequencelen-1304: yes16:11
zequence12.04 will still be important for some time. At least until 14.04 is out16:12
len-1304falktx, there is a real lack in the broadcast contribution transport area with stuff that will talk directly to jack16:12
len-1304zequence, I agree.16:12
len-1304and I mean using any codec, but opus would probably be the best one to use16:13
madeinkobaiaHi all : )17:51
zequencemadeinkobaia: hi17:58
madeinkobaiaHi, how are you ?17:58
zequenceFine. 17:59
zequencemadeinkobaia: Do you subscribe to our -devel mail list?17:59
madeinkobaiaYes, but I didn't read it yet18:00
zequencemadeinkobaia: Well, the big news of the day is that Scott is steppinf down as lead18:01
zequencescott-work: Say hi to madeinkobaia :)18:01
zequenceHe came along recently, and did some really nice work on a google+ banner18:02
zequencescott-work: You may have noticed, I appointed him art lead. 18:02
zequencemadeinkobaia: He's probably busy right now18:03
madeinkobaiaWell, no problems : )18:03
zequencebbl. Gotta fix a chair with some glue and nails18:04
madeinkobaiaI added to the branch (drafts folder) the (final) versions for the g+ banner, 3 color variations.18:05
madeinkobaiaAny feedbacks are welcome : )18:05
scott-workhi madeinkobaia , glad you are here :)18:18
madeinkobaiaMany thanks Scott ! I really enjoy to work with you all now, that makes my day :) 18:20
madeinkobaiaDon't pay attention to my English, it is far from be perfect, I will do my best for that and the rest :)18:22
zequencemadeinkobaia: Ah, great. You did some variations with the slogan18:58
madeinkobaiaYes I fixed some stuffs (see the working notes) and play with some colors : )19:00
zequencemadeinkobaia: Ok, you decreased the spacing. I really like the orange, but it's not something we've done before. And also makes you think of Ubuntu vanilla19:03
zequenceThe blue is really nice too, all though it doesn't stick out as much. 19:04
zequenceI do think it was a great idea to add some color. It made a huge difference19:04
zequenceSo, I would /win5019:05
zequencesorry :)19:05
madeinkobaiaSorry for ask zequence, I see you twice on IRC with blue and maroon colors, what does its means ?19:05
zequencemadeinkobaia: You mean, my nick is colored blue and maroon?19:06
zequenceHere are the two examples if anyone else wants to see http://ubuntuone.com/4cArN4iCygcRbJDFASYq7l, http://ubuntuone.com/4hAMQMIOZR8tTGgWjVl9gf19:09
zequenceWell, IMO, the orange is somehow better, but if we were to make a quick choice, I would rather not choose it out of respect for tradition, and therefore rather go with blue. This I guess is my opinion right now19:13
zequenceI think it would be interesting to look at maybe using a different color scheme for Ubuntu Studio in the future. That would probably take some time to decide about, at least for me :)19:14
madeinkobaiaI am agree, the branding setup color is really important (even if My preference goes to the orange one, more "funky"...) but we should have a global reflection on the color branding...when we have the time ;)19:14
zequenceYeah, exactly19:14
madeinkobaiaSo Blue or White...19:14
zequencemadeinkobaia: I say blue, definitely19:17
zequenceI was just trying the same image on my own facebook profile, so it seems to work quite nicely there too. It gets a bit cropped19:17
zequenceBut, that's up to you really19:17
madeinkobaiaI am a little hurry now, if you have no objections I will test the banner on my g+ account tomorrow...its always better for see how the blue interact with the context, we don't have to forget that we will use the same for FB...19:17
madeinkobaiaHave you got a link to your FB ?19:18
madeinkobaiaSeems good :)19:19
zequenceYeah :)19:19
zequencemadeinkobaia: Let me know when you're satisfied, and I'll publish both. I'll take the same opportunity to introduce you to the community19:20
madeinkobaiaOne important think for a good result its not re-compressed the picture (I have to tell that to our web-master)...that ruins the result, and we don't anyway paying the bandwidth on g+ and FB ; )19:20
zequenceI'm totally stupid when it comes to those things19:21
madeinkobaiaI know the size is a little bit heavy but under the ratio I chose that pixellized 19:21
madeinkobaiaI will tell that to our web-master, I forget his name...its important19:22
zequenceknome, ah19:22
zequenceYou mean our website, right?19:23
madeinkobaiaThe person who s manage the all stuff for internet...I don't know who will put the picture on g+ and FB...is it knome ?19:24
zequenceNo, that will be me19:24
zequenceknome is the designer of our website theme19:24
zequenceWe have a public relations team, that are supposed to be in charge of all the sites, in different ways, but it's not all organized yet19:24
madeinkobaiaOk I understand now19:25
zequenceI have access to everything, except our community G+ page and twitter so far19:25
zequencescott-work: Speaking of that, would you mind making me admin of those? :)19:25
zequenceWell, really, the PR team should probably only worry about posting, I gues19:26
zequenceWe have a website team as well19:26
madeinkobaiaWell, I must leave now...see you all tomorrow (I am a little bit hurry sorry)19:26
madeinkobaiaSee you Kaj19:27
zequencemadeinkobaia: Ok, see you 19:28
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scott-workzequence: i think you are already admin of g+ and facebook, i'll look at twitter this week21:00
zequencescott-work: Not the community g+ page though, only the "page"21:04
zequenceAt least, I think..21:04
scott-workoh, yeah, i did the "ubuntustudio" account, not the community. will do that as well21:05
zequencelen-1304: I wrote a blog post about the change in leadership, that I was thinking you might miss otherwise http://planet.ubuntu.com/23:10
zequenceBeen a long day. Catch you guys tomorrow23:20

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